Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame
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Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by magentaflame »

All news items. Our social services. Our main national weather organization (during summer and bush fire season)
Small business advertising (the main players are still there....that's telling) Ambulance, GP's, medical services like bloods.

The dictator has played his hand all of you be warned. This is what happens when you pull a dictator into line.

I'm deleting my account. And after watching the doco "The Social Delemma' . I will be using the internet....it won't be using me if I can help it.

What would happen if he did this in America or Europe? Try pulling that stunt in France.

I detest you little man and your cronies.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by magentaflame »

Shutting down BOM on Facebook in Summer makes you a terrorist. Be warned!!!! it's just short of an act of War.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by LarsMac »

Well, I confess to being plum bumfuzzled about what exactly you are on about.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by magentaflame »

https://techcrunch.com/2021/02/17/faceb ... gislation/


https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/subscrib ... de=premium


https://www.9news.com.au/national/faceb ... 7e83034897

All because our government told google .....might be nice to pay the reporters who's intellectual content you're using . News items I don't care about . anyone who gets their news off facebook is an idiot because it's talored to suit you ...that's not news that's commentary. But they didn't bargain on all that is associated with it under that platform. Zuckerburg - Fail.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by magentaflame »

https://www.9news.com.au/national/faceb ... 7e83034897

They don't want to pay, and they can do it to any country they see is not towing the line. We are their test case. You'll be next the next time your government says "hang on we aren't your bitches"
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by spot »

I'm not quite sure what your complaint with Facebook (or Google, since you mention them) is. Australia's government is making a naked money grab.

There is content, put onto a platform by content providers. And then there is Facebook, who host their content. Or YouTube which is in a similar position. Or Google viewed as a search provider. All of them deliver content abstracted from news services.

In the case of Google Search, the news services' websites provide Google with explicit permission to link to their news stories on the news service website. Any of the companies can put an automated access note ordering Google not to index their stories. They don't do that because the news services want the links in Google's search results. If Google gets taxed on publishing those links or abstracts you can be certain Google will stop publishing them, and if the taxation happens then it will stop providing any search results at all to any Australian IP address, and then stop providing any links worldwide to any material hosted in Australia.

As for Facebook or YouTube hosting copyright content, they do two things. They have AI filters which block anyone posting some of it, where they can recognize it for what it is, and they take down any material for which they receive a complaint from anyone claiming to be the copyright owner. ForumGarden does the same thing with copyright complaints, in a far smaller way - we don't yet use AI filtering.

So in general there are two different issues. There's going out with a bot and hoovering up whatever the news sites flag as pages the news site wants indexing and publishing, and there's hosting stuff the public posts which the public ought not to because the material is copyright. The remedies are similarly two-fold. Flag the web pages to not be hoovered up, and not appear in search results worldwide; and prosecute the law-breakers who publish copyright material on web hosts like Facebook or YouTube or any other webspace they have write-access to.

Australia is behaving as though Facebook, YouTube and Google have a legal duty to provide a service and that the providers have to continue to trade within their jurisdiction. I've no idea what they base that idea on. Facebook as a Human Right?
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by magentaflame »

Yes Lars that link is correct. That's what I'm referring to.

It all comes down to not wanting to pay Tax . Almost ever country in the world is looking at this.

And no Spot if you trade in any country you pay a premium to be there in all manner of trades and services. Do you think the internet is a ghost that just floats around?

If and when Facebook and other platforms become pay per view (actually youtube already has that option) you watch how many people think keeping "in touch" with their families is so important once they have to pay..
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by spot »

magentaflame wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:11 pm And no Spot if you trade in any country you pay a premium to be there in all manner of trades and services. Do you think the internet is a ghost that just floats around?

And if you refuse to trade in any particular country, then that's your choice. Facebook and Google have a huge incentive to withdraw their presence from Australia for as long as your proposed legislation is in force. It's not going to upset them in the slightest. What is Australia going to do in response? Force them to return?
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by magentaflame »

spot wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:14 pm
magentaflame wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:11 pm And no Spot if you trade in any country you pay a premium to be there in all manner of trades and services. Do you think the internet is a ghost that just floats around?

And if you refuse to trade in any particular country, then that's your choice. Facebook and Google have a huge incentive to withdraw their presence from Australia for as long as your proposed legislation is in force. It's not going to upset them in the slightest. What is Australia going to do in response? Force them to return?
And that's exactly what Facebook wants you to believe that this is about. I sense it's deeper than that. Remember the warnings that we've all heard? If it's free then you're the product. Have you had a chance to watch the documentary?
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by magentaflame »

anyway ...turns out it's been a complete PR flop for them. There are calls for some kid here to get off their arse, invent something and allow Australia to have it's own platform..."OZBOOK" lol
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by LarsMac »

magentaflame wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:22 pm
spot wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:14 pm
magentaflame wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:11 pm And no Spot if you trade in any country you pay a premium to be there in all manner of trades and services. Do you think the internet is a ghost that just floats around?

And if you refuse to trade in any particular country, then that's your choice. Facebook and Google have a huge incentive to withdraw their presence from Australia for as long as your proposed legislation is in force. It's not going to upset them in the slightest. What is Australia going to do in response? Force them to return?
And that's exactly what Facebook wants you to believe that this is about. I sense it's deeper than that. Remember the warnings that we've all heard? If it's free then you're the product. Have you had a chance to watch the documentary?
Actually, I don't think that Facebook much cares what any of us believe.
And, when you click on that link that a friend posted on FB, it connects your device to the website the link was to, and FB no longer has anything to do with whether you can see the material, or not. I doubt FB wants to get anywhere near all the licensing crap.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:25 pm anyway ...turns out it's been a complete PR flop for them. There are calls for some kid here to get off their arse, invent something and allow Australia to have it's own platform..."OZBOOK" lol
There's alternatives already. The idea Facebook is bluffing is not one I share, and as for privacy - I don't have a Facebook account. Nor Instagram, nor Twitter, nor MySpace, and neither is Bing nor Google nor Jeeves my default search engine. I treat the Internet with a degree of respect. I do, oddly enough, have accounts with YouTube and Gmail.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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I do not see how FB can be held responsible for users posting news articles on FB.
And, users aren't actually posting the article, they simply copy a link to the media site. The browser actually does the work.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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LarsMac wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:00 am I do not see how FB can be held responsible for users posting news articles on FB.
And, users aren't actually posting the article, they simply copy a link to the media site. The browser actually does the work.
And, rather unbelievably, it's the news sites themseves, with their official accounts, who are choosing to post the stories onto Facebook in order to get the forwarding, and they then have the appalling temerity to say Facebook should be taxed on the reads and the taxation distributed back to them. So the more they post, the more they'll get in kickbacks. You couldn't make up a more rubbish scheme to try to get legislative backing for.

And all Facebook needs do is put into their T&C that no organization legally entitled to a share of Australian news-click taxation is allowed a Facebook account in the first place.

How anyone can blame Mark Zuckerberg I have no idea. A bunch of no-good crooks centered around the bastard Murdochs are try to stiff him and he's not caving in. It's not even as though Facebook is a public corporation, it's a private company.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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spot wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:24 am
LarsMac wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:00 am I do not see how FB can be held responsible for users posting news articles on FB.
And, users aren't actually posting the article, they simply copy a link to the media site. The browser actually does the work.
And, rather unbelievably, it's the news sites themseves, with their official accounts, who are choosing to post the stories onto Facebook in order to get the forwarding, and they then have the appalling temerity to say Facebook should be taxed on the reads and the taxation distributed back to them. So the more they post, the more they'll get in kickbacks. You couldn't make up a more rubbish scheme to try to get legislative backing for.

And all Facebook needs do is put into their T&C that no organization legally entitled to a share of Australian news-click taxation is allowed a Facebook account in the first place.

How anyone can blame Mark Zuckerberg I have no idea. A bunch of no-good crooks centered around the bastard Murdochs are try to stiff him and he's not caving in. It's not even as though Facebook is a public corporation, it's a private company.
FB has been a publicly traded company since 2012, I believe
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by spot »

LarsMac wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:40 am
spot wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:24 am
LarsMac wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:00 am I do not see how FB can be held responsible for users posting news articles on FB.
And, users aren't actually posting the article, they simply copy a link to the media site. The browser actually does the work.
And, rather unbelievably, it's the news sites themseves, with their official accounts, who are choosing to post the stories onto Facebook in order to get the forwarding, and they then have the appalling temerity to say Facebook should be taxed on the reads and the taxation distributed back to them. So the more they post, the more they'll get in kickbacks. You couldn't make up a more rubbish scheme to try to get legislative backing for.

And all Facebook needs do is put into their T&C that no organization legally entitled to a share of Australian news-click taxation is allowed a Facebook account in the first place.

How anyone can blame Mark Zuckerberg I have no idea. A bunch of no-good crooks centered around the bastard Murdochs are try to stiff him and he's not caving in. It's not even as though Facebook is a public corporation, it's a private company.
FB has been a publicly traded company since 2012, I believe
Ah. That'll be how it has a valuation then.

I suspect you'll find he has a majority shareholding.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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Holy CRAP!!
I had no idea the Aussie News rags think so much of their publications.
I subscribe to a lot of news pubs, but I'm only paying a fraction of what they want for a single pub.
Greedy buggers.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by spot »

Let's take a step back and look at the proposed media law in Australia for a moment, as it affects Facebook.

Facebook originally had consumers who could choose to follow each other. Now it also has news provider accounts to which consumers can subscribe. I think the word for that is "friend" or "follow", I'm not sure. Facebook itself also has provider accounts which can be followed. One of those is a news consolidation feed.

Do the Australian media companies want to be on the consolidation feed or not? Do they want their own newsfeeds to be followed or not? They all currently do it, as far as I know. They could choose not to, just as they can choose to use a paywall against unsubscribed browsers and choose to block access to search engines. If a company doesn't post onto Facebook then no Facebook subscriber will get those posts in their feed. If a Facebook user includes an Internet browser URL in a post then Facebook could be ordered to delete the post but to be honest, I don't think any Australian court would make such an order. It was tried and failed twenty years ago in Scotland, for example.

The new Australian law wants to give a right to organizations, either as a list of names or categories, to be paid a specified amount for every post they make on their news feeds. The legislators also toyed with the idea of an arbitration process to decide on the amount paid.

Now, if those paid feed accounts are banned by Facebook, won't most of Facebook's users just follow non-Australian news feeds instead?

The British newspaper I subscribe to online, The Guardian, has an Australian News section and I bet it has a Facebook feed and I bet some Australian Facebook users follow it. Is a UK newspaper going to have access to this trough of money the Australian legislators are trying to create? That seems very improbable. It does mean there will still be Australia-specific news feeds available to Australian users after the bomb drops though.

I don't see any legislative path which would work, short of banning the whole of Facebook from access over the Australian Internet. That doesn't add income to Australian media companies either.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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Please watch this. I don't have a facebook page anymore. But I can't escape from google. this has happened in conjunction with this issue. It runs deeper than you can roll your head around. they can shut down so many platforms but not pedoes and hate sites? please! how does that happen?


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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:26 pmthey can shut down so many platforms but not pedoes and hate sites? please! how does that happen?
I watched it. I agree with what they said in it. Winning an election is dependent on the Internet more than on anything else.

But, I have to ask - who is the "they" in your first word there, that can "shut down so many platforms"?

Sites which distribute illegal imagery have resulted in more prosecutions of criminal downloaders and sharers than any other information source. They're an intelligence asset and then they get shut down and new ones replace them and another batch of criminals gets caught.

But, again I have to ask - what's a hate site? There is no truth to be had, truth is subjective. Tom Scott said it best at the Royal Institution, in relation to the Internet. (you could watch it instead of your next hour-long TV option).
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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They....who influence and direct.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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Could someone do me a favour? Go to the streaming site of libby I want to know if you can see it/listen to it. I can't do it on my computer but can hear it on my telly. just want to test something.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:43 pm Could someone do me a favour? Go to the streaming site of libby I want to know if you can see it/listen to it. I can't do it on my computer but can hear it on my telly. just want to test something.
My library has no contract with libby, so I can't give it a valid card.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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I don't even know what that means. I know people in England stream ABC I want to know if you can still do it. today
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:10 pm I don't even know what that means. I know people in England stream ABC I want to know if you can still do it. today
https://libbyapp.com/resolve/cornwalllibraries

As far as I know, libby is an app which lets you borrow library books and I have no idea what an ABC is, you didn't mention ABC.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Iview specifies that it is only available within Oz
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Presumably you'd need some sort of program to run locally. I think I pick up streamed broadcasts with VLC but I'd need a URL to know where to find this ABC thing. I searched and it gave me the Aerated Bread Company.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:39 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Presumably you'd need some sort of program to run locally. I think I pick up streamed broadcasts with VLC but I'd need a URL to know where to find this ABC thing. I searched and it gave me the Aerated Bread Company.

HELLO!!! any other time I've put an ABC stream others have been able to see it overseas.. you being one of them.. I can do a search stream BBC live done ...no problem. I wan't to know why you can't all of the sudden.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:43 pm
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:39 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Presumably you'd need some sort of program to run locally. I think I pick up streamed broadcasts with VLC but I'd need a URL to know where to find this ABC thing. I searched and it gave me the Aerated Bread Company.

HELLO!!! any other time I've put an ABC stream others have been able to see it overseas.. you being one of them.. I can do a search stream BBC live done ...no problem. I wan't to know why you can't all of the sudden.
It sounds like previously you've posted a link?
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bryn Mawr wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:37 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Iview specifies that it is only available within Oz
Just tried a different route (abc instant access) to watch a program called blackish but it insists that I sign up with a provider.
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:45 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:43 pm
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:39 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Presumably you'd need some sort of program to run locally. I think I pick up streamed broadcasts with VLC but I'd need a URL to know where to find this ABC thing. I searched and it gave me the Aerated Bread Company.

HELLO!!! any other time I've put an ABC stream others have been able to see it overseas.. you being one of them.. I can do a search stream BBC live done ...no problem. I wan't to know why you can't all of the sudden.
It sounds like previously you've posted a link?
OH please Spot... people can pick it up on their yachts in the middle of the Atlantic. Why the hell do you play dumb all the time?
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bryn Mawr wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:45 pm
Bryn Mawr wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:37 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Iview specifies that it is only available within Oz
Just tried a different route (abc instant access) to watch a program called blackish but it insists that I sign up with a provider.
Just watching abc news live on abcnews.go.com
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

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magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:47 pm
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:45 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:43 pm
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:39 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Presumably you'd need some sort of program to run locally. I think I pick up streamed broadcasts with VLC but I'd need a URL to know where to find this ABC thing. I searched and it gave me the Aerated Bread Company.

HELLO!!! any other time I've put an ABC stream others have been able to see it overseas.. you being one of them.. I can do a search stream BBC live done ...no problem. I wan't to know why you can't all of the sudden.
It sounds like previously you've posted a link?
OH please Spot... people can pick it up on their yachts in the middle of the Atlantic. Why the hell do you play dumb all the time?
It all comes down to experience. I have never, at any time, used any form of steaming service. I know nothing about them. Sometimes Andrew Lloyd Webber's company sends me a link which opens VLC, I have no idea how or why but it then shows me an opera. I'm pretty sure that's a streamed service. I'm forbidden by law to access the iPlayer in the UK and that, again, might be a streamed service I'm aware of. Other than that it's a thing that happens on modern televisions. I don't own a television.
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Betty Boop
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by Betty Boop »

spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:03 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:47 pm
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:45 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:43 pm
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:39 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:21 pm sorry thought it was obvious... yes ABC like your BBC it's not an app you can stream it have always been able to. ...unless?
Presumably you'd need some sort of program to run locally. I think I pick up streamed broadcasts with VLC but I'd need a URL to know where to find this ABC thing. I searched and it gave me the Aerated Bread Company.

HELLO!!! any other time I've put an ABC stream others have been able to see it overseas.. you being one of them.. I can do a search stream BBC live done ...no problem. I wan't to know why you can't all of the sudden.
It sounds like previously you've posted a link?
OH please Spot... people can pick it up on their yachts in the middle of the Atlantic. Why the hell do you play dumb all the time?
It all comes down to experience. I have never, at any time, used any form of steaming service. I know nothing about them. Sometimes Andrew Lloyd Webber's company sends me a link which opens VLC, I have no idea how or why but it then shows me an opera. I'm pretty sure that's a streamed service. I'm forbidden by law to access the iPlayer in the UK and that, again, might be a streamed service I'm aware of. Other than that it's a thing that happens on modern televisions. I don't own a television.
I can already guess you wouldn't want to, but you could if you wanted to stream for free from ITV, Channel Four, Channel 5, Aljazeera and no doubt numerous other news outlets that are not anything to do with the BBC.
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spot
Posts: 38597
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Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by spot »

Betty Boop wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:18 am
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:03 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:47 pm
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:45 pm
magentaflame wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:43 pm
spot wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:39 pm

Presumably you'd need some sort of program to run locally. I think I pick up streamed broadcasts with VLC but I'd need a URL to know where to find this ABC thing. I searched and it gave me the Aerated Bread Company.

HELLO!!! any other time I've put an ABC stream others have been able to see it overseas.. you being one of them.. I can do a search stream BBC live done ...no problem. I wan't to know why you can't all of the sudden.
It sounds like previously you've posted a link?
OH please Spot... people can pick it up on their yachts in the middle of the Atlantic. Why the hell do you play dumb all the time?
It all comes down to experience. I have never, at any time, used any form of steaming service. I know nothing about them. Sometimes Andrew Lloyd Webber's company sends me a link which opens VLC, I have no idea how or why but it then shows me an opera. I'm pretty sure that's a streamed service. I'm forbidden by law to access the iPlayer in the UK and that, again, might be a streamed service I'm aware of. Other than that it's a thing that happens on modern televisions. I don't own a television.
I can already guess you wouldn't want to, but you could if you wanted to stream for free from ITV, Channel Four, Channel 5, Aljazeera and no doubt numerous other news outlets that are not anything to do with the BBC.
Or, as it happens, from the Washington Post which also runs a live TV channel on the Internet. Except it's illegal in the UK for me to use that, or the Aljazeera live TV channel, despite my being quite keen to on occasion. The reason I can't live stream anything from anywhere if it's a public broadcast, as opposed to a live online meeting or lecture or conference, is that I have no licence allowing me to do so. I do not possess the appropriate permit.

The relevant redefinition of "television receiver" which brought all public live streaming into the licencing requirement says:

“television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise)—

(a)any television programme service, or

(b)an on-demand programme service which is provided by the BBC,

whether or not the apparatus is installed or used for any other purpose.”.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/704/made
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magentaflame
Posts: 2840
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Suckerbug has played his hand

Post by magentaflame »

Well I've just learnt something. I know my mother had to go to court for not paying for a license way way back. I just find it silly now. It's a big thing now that the ABC is everyones ABC because we all pay for it in our taxes. Everyone wants to keep it that way "keeps the barstards honest", no matter how many successive governments want to privatise it. We all pay for it like we all pay for hospitals etc.

I found this to be interesting

https://www.nfsa.gov.au/latest/radio-and-tv-licences
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!

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