Down With The Dalai Lama

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Oscar Namechange
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Down With The Dalai Lama

Post by Oscar Namechange »

OpenMind;1024376 wrote: Sounds like Britain to me. The Prime Minister does all the ruling while the Queen does all the owning and defending.


Spot on. :(
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OpenMind
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Down With The Dalai Lama

Post by OpenMind »

oscar;1024385 wrote: Spot on. :(


He must have set himself 'invisible' cos he's not on the Who's Online list.:thinking:
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

The Dalai Lama is not chosen, he is found. The current Dalai Lama is a reincarnation of the previous Dalai Lama. He was born two years after his last incarnation ended. Senior Tibetan monks recieve information during meditation which helps them track down the new Dalai Lama. They have a secret set of criteria which they use to determine whether the child they have tracked down is the Dalai Lama. Although, Familiarity with the possessions of the previous Dalai Lama is considered the main sign of the reincarnation. The search for the reincarnation typically requires a few years.





Perhaps theres a flaw in their secret criteria, perhaps they got the wrong guy and this Dalai Lama just wants to have some fun.
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koan
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Post by koan »

He's like a claymation dude who was trained to ask a question in response to a question and can spout back passages from previously written Buddhist literature.
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

Look would you rather sit on top of a mountain all day or ride around with Richard Gere in his Mercedes and have lunch at Spago's ?
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

The world is a colossal **** fest



JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (CNN) -- South Africa has refused the Dalai Lama a visa to attend an international peace conference in Johannesburg this week, a presidential spokesman said.



The Dalai Lama fled China in 1959 after a failed uprising against Chinese rule.



The Tibetan spiritual leader and Nobel Laureate did not receive a visa because it was not in South Africa's interest for him to attend, said Thabo Masebe.

South Africa thinks that, if the Dalai Lama attended the conference, the focus would shift away from the 2010 World Cup -- the global soccer championship it will host next year.

"We cannot allow focus to shift to China and Tibet," Masebe said, adding that South Africa has gained much from its trading relationship with China.

The Dalai Lama's fellow laureate, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, said he would boycott the event.

Former president F.W. De Klerk, another laureate, backed Tutu, saying in a statement that he would also not participate in the conference if the Dalai Lama remained excluded.

De Klerk said that the decision to refuse the visa made a "mockery" of the peace conference.

"The decision to exclude the Dalai Lama is irreconcilable with key principles on which our society is based including the principles of accountability, openness and responsiveness and the rights to freedom of expression and free political activity," he said.

"South Africa is a sovereign constitutional democracy and should not allow other countries to dictate to it regarding who it should, and should not admit to its territory - regardless of the power and influence of the country."

A representative of the Dalai Lama said he was not surprised by the decision. The Tibetan government in exile thinks that China has pressured many countries to refuse a visit by the Dalai Lama, according to Chhime Chhoekyapa, an aide in Dharamsala, India.

The Dalai Lama fled China in 1959 after a failed uprising against Chinese rule.

The peace conference was billed as an opportunity to showcase South Africa's role as a human-rights champion ahead of its hosting of soccer's World Cup next year.

It was to bring together Noble Laureates and top soccer officials. In addition to Tutu and De Klerk, laureates Nelson Mandela and Martti Ahtisaar, Sepp Blatter, president of soccer's international governing body, and actress Charlize Theron were invited to attend. The event had the blessing of the Nobel Committee.
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pemalah
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Down With The Dalai Lama

Post by pemalah »



I am new to FG and have just read these posts.

Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering and brings negative consequences. None of you seem to have met the Dalai Lama, but all of you are willing to take a swipe at an incredible Being. Yes, I have met H.H. Dalai Lama several times and I have stayed in his (deceased) mother's house for some months. He is remarkable and has brought the Dharma to the west by fleeing Tibet and now stands as the representative that China likes to attack as he does all he can to help the Tibetan people still in brutal rule in Tibet.

How small minded it is to comment about a car and Richard Gere?! The Dalai Lama is way beyond any ordinary person, of that I have no doubt, but then again, so was Jesus and look what was done to him, in ignorance!

:yh_flower
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering and brings negative consequences.
How true. The negative consequences are evidenced in every part of society, in every cruelty we display toward each other.
koan
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Post by koan »

pemalah;1382933 wrote:

I am new to FG and have just read these posts.

Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering and brings negative consequences. None of you seem to have met the Dalai Lama, but all of you are willing to take a swipe at an incredible Being. Yes, I have met H.H. Dalai Lama several times and I have stayed in his (deceased) mother's house for some months. He is remarkable and has brought the Dharma to the west by fleeing Tibet and now stands as the representative that China likes to attack as he does all he can to help the Tibetan people still in brutal rule in Tibet.

How small minded it is to comment about a car and Richard Gere?! The Dalai Lama is way beyond any ordinary person, of that I have no doubt, but then again, so was Jesus and look what was done to him, in ignorance!

:yh_flower
oh, I admit some disrespect was shown in the wording here but I have yet to get an answer to what I thought was a really good question.

Before writing this, I emailed whoever answers the mail on the Dalai Lama's website and humbly asked for information explaining how the idea of non-attachment coincides with the insistence on returning to Tibet. I got an answer that just basically said that China was committing many injustices. No answer. I'm pretty sure the person responding could understand what non-attachment meant and, I assure you, I wrote the query believing there was a good answer I just hadn't figured out.

I really feel that his encouragement towards the Tibetan people attaching themselves to a piece of land has increased their suffering. I'm convinced of it.

Of course I'm not enlightened so my frustration is one of ignorance.

I'd have been less frustrated if any actually tried to answer the question.
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pemalah
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Post by pemalah »

Non-attachment is not the same thing as 'lack of attachment', but the meaning is subtle.

However, just because the Dalai Lama and many hundreds of other nuns, monks and Lamas no longer suffer from attachment, does not mean they all do or that the Tibetan people do. To be invaded by the Chinese and driven from their homeland because they revered the Dalai Lama as their Spiritual Leader, nothing more, is totally unjust.

Why should the world expect Tibetans to be "above" all suffering and not need their own homeland which was wrongly and brutally taken from them? It's a huge ask and one that is really wrong. This is not "Buddhism"! Buddhism never speaks of martyrdom and that is the beauty of it.

The Dalai Lama has never encouraged Tibetans to want to go back - they want to! HH Dalai Lama has asked repeatedly since 1959 that they all have patience and no anger. This has helped immensely with their suffering in exile and also the word has filtered back to the Tibetans living still under the oppression and genocide of the Chinese regime and has given them hope.

Perhaps you did not receive a full answer for the simple reason that China has infiltrated just about everything Tibetan and constantly makes threats!

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koan
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Post by koan »

I understand losing your home. I've walked away from all my possessions three times and not because I found something better but because of injuries either physical or emotional. Walking away was the best thing I could have done for my peace of mind. If I feel an ache when I think of what was lost I remind myself that possessions and property are just illusions and symbols.

Them wanting to go back is a source of pain. Telling them to be patient is telling them they'll get it again and encouraging their attachment.

Asceticism inspired self immolation at least once. Practitioners commonly walk away from their families to find enlightenment... but they can't walk away from Tibet?
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pemalah
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Post by pemalah »

koan;1382951 wrote: I understand losing your home. I've walked away from all my possessions three times and not because I found something better but because of injuries either physical or emotional. Walking away was the best thing I could have done for my peace of mind. If I feel an ache when I think of what was lost I remind myself that possessions and property are just illusions and symbols.

Them wanting to go back is a source of pain. Telling them to be patient is telling them they'll get it again and encouraging their attachment.

Asceticism inspired self immolation at least once. Practitioners commonly walk away from their families to find enlightenment... but they can't walk away from Tibet?


Choosing to walk away is very different than being raped, shot and slaughtered wholesale and having to flee to save yourself, often leaving behind many loved ones whose fate you will never know. I too have lost everything three times in my life and not by choice. There are many Tibetans who are quite contented to be living in other parts of the world and they have spread the Dharma teachings with love and tenderness all over the west, even though they carry (literally) the scars of what the Chinese did to them.

I cannot say and either can you or anyone else that telling the Tibetans to be patient is increasing their attachment! This is presuming their mind/heart and no one but themselves can know this.

I repeat, choosing, is very different from having to.
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Post by koan »

I chose to walk away the first time because of a rape.

I am very fond of Tibetan Buddhism but I'm not fond of the Dalai Lama in the same way I'm fond of many religions but not their institutions.

From an interview with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso

Lopez: Do you believe that the Dalai Lama is an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara?

GKG:If he is an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara why he is causing so many people suffering? Why is he causing the spiritual life of so many people to be destroyed? Now there is big confusion. Since His Holiness the Dalai Lama removed Shugden statues from Gelugpa monasteries and temples and claimed that Shugden is a worldly, harmful spirit, people throughout the Buddhist world have begun to have doubts about the general dharma of the Gelugpa tradition, and in particular the dharma of Je Pabongka and Trijang Rinpoche. Now you can see the belief pervading everywhere that these lamas and their tradition are invalid and impure. How can His Holiness the Dalai Lama do this, unless he thinks that the dharma taught by Trijang Rinpoche is not the real dharma? What he is doing now is putting great effort to destroy the Dharma taught by his own spiritual guide. This is a very horrible example, because every Buddhist practitioner believes that relying on the spiritual guide is the root of the path and the very essence of the practice. He is showing that the lama or spiritual guide doesn’t matter. How can Avalokiteshvara do this?


I can see why you were upset about Richard Gere and Mercedes Benz comments but... he did do a commercial for Apple Computers. There are a lot of valid questions about his conduct.
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pemalah
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Post by pemalah »

koan;1382957 wrote: I chose to walk away the first time because of a rape.

I am very fond of Tibetan Buddhism but I'm not fond of the Dalai Lama in the same way I'm fond of many religions but not their institutions.

From an interview with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso



I can see why you were upset about Richard Gere and Mercedes Benz comments but... he did do a commercial for Apple Computers. There are a lot of valid questions about his conduct.


Firstly, let me say that I am sorry that you had to walk away from......

Secondly, I will say that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is not a qualified Geshe and has caused great trouble since the mid 70s for many wonderful Lamas. Shugden has been 'grabbed' by the Chinese and used to commit murder at the Dalai Lama's Monastery and after much deliberation and discussion with his 'cabinet', the Dalai Lama was advised to put a stop to the practice of Shugden. Many Lamas still practice this though, but without the Chinese knowing - it's a long, political story, but never believe Geshe Kelsang Gyatso!

The Dalai Lama also made a CD with some Aboriginal people in Australia and it brought them some well needed money and fame - no kick back for the DL! So what if he does a commercial? I think that shows his sense of humour! BTW, I was not upset. :D

The DL is not my personal heart Guru and he certainly tries to remain non-political, but he couldn't, so he has stepped down as 'head of the Tibetan Government in Exile' as he never wanted to be that in the first place. I don't practice Tibetan Buddhism from a political point of view as I don't see it that way at all.

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koan
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Post by koan »

I'm glad you enjoy a sense of humour as the best summary of my issue with the Dalai Lama is from Penn & Teller and they are kind of crude:

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littleCJelkton
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Post by littleCJelkton »

koan;1382963 wrote: I'm glad you enjoy a sense of humour as the best summary of my issue with the Dalai Lama is from Penn & Teller and they are kind of crude:




I have seen that one and it is way more than the Lama, it goes in good on Ghandi and Mother T
koan
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Post by koan »

yeah, I noticed at the start that they had other scales of evil coming up. Will have to find the other ones today. :)
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littleCJelkton
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Post by littleCJelkton »

Yeah they should of done the Pope too but they I guess they figured they had enough B.S. on the catholic church
koan
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Post by koan »

I think it's refreshing to hear that even highly revered citizens have flaws. The Dalai Lama has admitted he's not divine. He also suggested that the Tibetans go back to drawing the name of the next Dalai Lama out of a jar. Since then he's said he might not reincarnate again, to which the people freaked out and reminded him it's not up to him, it's up to them.

On the other hand, it's important to know if the idolization factor allows people to commit terrible acts due to selective blindness of the followers... like with Mother Theresa increasing the suffering of her patients for her own religious purposes... and potentially with the Dalai Lama encouraging Tibetans to return to Tibet to get his little Lama system back in place.
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littleCJelkton
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Post by littleCJelkton »

Yeah the japanese buddhism that my Grandmother is apart of Idolizes ther president Ikeda in the same way I find no reason in any form of buddhism to idolize something to better myself
koan
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Post by koan »

Buddhism is not meant to be turned into a personality cult... that's just a tangent that the objects of the cults would put an end to if it doesn't corrupt them.

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