Hinduism - World is a family

Discuss Sikhism, Shinto, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Kabbalah, others.
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Suresh Gupta
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

Hinduism has many doctrines, one of them is "vasudhaiva kutumbakam", the world is a family. A Hindu believes not in clash of civilisations but in their confluence. In today's conflicting world it becomes more important that people should agree that cultures and civilisations can co-exist even if nations clash. This belief if shared by all will shape the destiny of 21st century, and make the world a better place to live.
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Post by gmc »

How do the untouchables fit in to this? I've always wondered is it a tenet of hunduism or simple prejudice.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

gmc wrote: How do the untouchables fit in to this? I've always wondered is it a tenet of hunduism or simple prejudice.


There is no untouchable in Hinduism.
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Post by gmc »

Then what's the origin? all the various castes is that hinduism or what?
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

gmc wrote: Then what's the origin? all the various castes is that hinduism or what?


Having various castes does not mean untouchability. In Hinduism castes mean a systematic definition and practice of roles, responsibilities and authorities. This concept, very much known to ancient Indians, is an integral part of modern day management systems.

And is there any religion in this world which does not have castes (groups, sects etc.)? I do not know whether these religions have these castes under a system as in Hinduism.
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Post by gmc »

And is there any religion in this world which does not have castes (groups, sects etc.)? I do not know whether these religions have these castes under a system as in Hinduism.


I can only claim any knowledge of european religons but one of the things stemming from the protestant reformation was the questioning of the order in society. If all are equal in the sight of god then distinctions on earth must be man made.

If you start to question the divine right of kings to rule over you then from where does the order in society come. If from god and vested in the people then it is to them that the rights belonged not the king or to those who would be rulers unless the people agree. From that basic logic a lot of present day political philosophy hark back to. Early societies were rupblican in nature with natural leaders rising to the fore hereditary kingship is an aberration (ok you can put a case either way but starting out with the assumption that someone is born to be king gets my back up)

You might find this of interest, i'e the basic principles they propounded stemmed from their religious belief.

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi ... /benn.html

History tends to get written by those who prevail it is only later that you8 can look back and say that wasn;'t quite why it happened.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

gmc wrote: ..........If all are equal in the sight of god then distinctions on earth must be man made.


Yes, the distinctions on earth are man made.

If you start to question the divine right of kings to rule over you then from where does the order in society come. If from god and vested in the people then it is to them that the rights belonged not the king or to those who would be rulers unless the people agree. From that basic logic a lot of present day political philosophy hark back to. Early societies were rupblican in nature with natural leaders rising to the fore hereditary kingship is an aberration (ok you can put a case either way but starting out with the assumption that someone is born to be king gets my back up)


God has not sanctioned any divine right to anybody to be a king to rule over others. Every society needs governance and somebody has to take this responsibility. At different times in the world different people governed their respective societies. These peopole were given this responsibility by following different methods of election or selection. They were always answerable to the people who have choosen them. No body is born to be a king. He or she should be worthy of providing good governance.

You might find this of interest, i'e the basic principles they propounded stemmed from their religious belief.

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi ... /benn.html


I will visit this site. Thanks.

History tends to get written by those who prevail it is only later that you8 can look back and say that wasn;'t quite why it happened.


You are right. It should not be but unfortunately it has happened and going on.
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Post by koan »

Back to the original thought. This is a wonderful principle that is hard to practice when the nations are bombing each other. Even so, if people practice this principle on an individual level, the practice could spread to a larger scale.

There is no denying we are all a family. We all have bodies classified as humans and we all live on the same planet. How we get caught up in so much hatred is the question. On the other hand, I don't treat my family any different than I treat anyone else...they need to earn my respect. I wouldn't hurt them or anyone else...it is not in my nature to even wish it, but I don't necessarily like them. I have been hurt worse by a member of my immediate family than anyone else in the world, so far, and I still don't wish him harm. As I don't wish harm on anyone. What creates this wish for destruction? Is it damaged people who lost their sense of personal power? Is it lack of love as a child?

All beings fear violence.

All beings fear pain.

When you see yourself in all your brothers and sisters,

then how can you bring harm to them?

-Zen cards
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: Back to the original thought. This is a wonderful principle that is hard to practice when the nations are bombing each other. Even so, if people practice this principle on an individual level, the practice could spread to a larger scale.

There is no denying we are all a family. We all have bodies classified as humans and we all live on the same planet. How we get caught up in so much hatred is the question. On the other hand, I don't treat my family any different than I treat anyone else...they need to earn my respect. I wouldn't hurt them or anyone else...it is not in my nature to even wish it, but I don't necessarily like them. I have been hurt worse by a member of my immediate family than anyone else in the world, so far, and I still don't wish him harm. As I don't wish harm on anyone. What creates this wish for destruction? Is it damaged people who lost their sense of personal power? Is it lack of love as a child?

All beings fear violence.

All beings fear pain.

When you see yourself in all your brothers and sisters,

then how can you bring harm to them?

-Zen cards


You have summerized it beautifully. Individuals need practice it and make it a part of their self. Then number of such individuals increase and reach a level when entire world is practicing it. It will take ages. Individuals will perish but idea will remain. Human beings need such ideas. Ideas give hope and a reason to move forward.
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Post by koan »

Suresh Gupta wrote: You have summerized it beautifully. Individuals need practice it and make it a part of their self. Then number of such individuals increase and reach a level when entire world is practicing it. It will take ages. Individuals will perish but idea will remain. Human beings need such ideas. Ideas give hope and a reason to move forward.


This is a message that I see you express in many other posts. It is very important. People are lazy. As George Carlin (bless his angry soul) queries: Have you ever started a path? We've all followed one...but have you ever, actually started a path?

It takes much time and persistence. Most people are more content to wait for the path to magically appear for them. Maybe you and I shall start a path.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: This is a message that I see you express in many other posts. It is very important. People are lazy. As George Carlin (bless his angry soul) queries: Have you ever started a path? We've all followed one...but have you ever, actually started a path?

It takes much time and persistence. Most people are more content to wait for the path to magically appear for them. Maybe you and I shall start a path.


The theme is eternal.

One can say that people should have positive approach towards other people and situations they are facing in their life.

One can also say that people should be pro-active and not reactive.

Some may create a path.

Some may want others to create a path for them.

Starting a path is a beginning.

Walking on the path is progress.

Taking others along the path is success.

You and I starting a path is a welcome suggestion. I have a website, www.betterlife4all.com. We can use it. What do you say?
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Post by koan »

Suresh Gupta wrote: The theme is eternal.

One can say that people should have positive approach towards other people and situations they are facing in their life.

One can also say that people should be pro-active and not reactive.

Some may create a path.

Some may want others to create a path for them.

You make a very good point. There are some who are followers and, for whatever reasons, wait for another to lead them because they are incapable of leading themselves. The world must be comprised of all types. And all types have their reason for existence.

Starting a path is a beginning.

Walking on the path is progress.

Taking others along the path is success.

I like this. But the beginning must happen first.

You and I starting a path is a welcome suggestion. I have a website, www.betterlife4all.com. We can use it. What do you say?


I say I am interested, and I mean it. Your website presents two problems for me though. 1) I am not from the same country as your platform requires. 2) If the path is to lead the way for all nations and peoples to love each other then it should not be limited to Indian peoples as your site is focused on.

I think this site has a great purpose but not the one we were discussing.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: I say I am interested, and I mean it. Your website presents two problems for me though. 1) I am not from the same country as your platform requires. 2) If the path is to lead the way for all nations and peoples to love each other then it should not be limited to Indian peoples as your site is focused on.

I think this site has a great purpose but not the one we were discussing.


Thank you for visiting my website.

You are right that basically it was designed for Indian people. But did you visit the page on UN Global Compact. This will pave the way for all nations and peoples to love each other. This will serve as a playform for all the people in the world as it deals with human issues and does not limit it to one nation only.
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Post by koan »

I have been thinking of this path that could be started and how it could reach everyone without limit. I am starting to narrow things down to a few basic concepts but I'm not quite there yet.

One issue is Personal Power. It has been my belief for some time that the cause of many hurtful actions is the loss of personal power and hence the need to derive it from overpowering another person, usually weaker. This can be physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual overpowering. If some focus was put to restoring personal power would that create a more peaceful world?

Judgement, as a form of seeking to be superior and therefore still a part of personal power issues, is the most common expression of powerlessness.

One question, many have tried and failed to unite all people. Why have they failed and how can this failure be avoided again? I think it must be a non religious approach or half the world is isolated before we even begin.

Haven't had a chance to check out the other link. Will try that soon.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: I have been thinking of this path that could be started and how it could reach everyone without limit. I am starting to narrow things down to a few basic concepts but I'm not quite there yet.

One issue is Personal Power. It has been my belief for some time that the cause of many hurtful actions is the loss of personal power and hence the need to derive it from overpowering another person, usually weaker. This can be physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual overpowering. If some focus was put to restoring personal power would that create a more peaceful world?

Judgement, as a form of seeking to be superior and therefore still a part of personal power issues, is the most common expression of powerlessness.

One question, many have tried and failed to unite all people. Why have they failed and how can this failure be avoided again? I think it must be a non religious approach or half the world is isolated before we even begin.

Yes, mHaven't had a chance to check out the other link. Will try that soon.


What you call 'personal power', I will like to call it 'empowerment'. In personal power there is some expectation of a return (in any form). It may be an expectation of acknowledgement. It may be expecting a position of making judgements. But in empowerment there is no expectation of any return. It is selfless.

Yes, many have tried and failed to unite people. In my opinion the basic reason is that they themselves did not unite with the people. The unspoken massage of self example is the greatest of all motivations. The personal approach is best.
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Post by koan »

I agree. Empowerment is a much better word than "personal power".

It is not a good reason to say others have failed and use that as a reason not to try again. But it is good reason to try and learn from where they have failed.

Even if I were to say this is not a religious quest, if people joined the cause they could make it a religion very quickly. The buddhists seem to be the most adept at avoiding sensationalism. I guess that the stricter physical requirements it takes reduces the number of followers and prevents mass promotion. But then promotion is what the idea needs. It starts to feel like an impossible dream. All it probably needs is a starting point. At the beginning, it seems important to realize that there are leaders and there are followers. To try and turn everyone into a leader in a magical moment is asking for failure. I do think that even followers can learn to be their own leaders as well. Is this just a dream?
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: I agree. Empowerment is a much better word than "personal power".

It is not a good reason to say others have failed and use that as a reason not to try again. But it is good reason to try and learn from where they have failed.

Even if I were to say this is not a religious quest, if people joined the cause they could make it a religion very quickly. The buddhists seem to be the most adept at avoiding sensationalism. I guess that the stricter physical requirements it takes reduces the number of followers and prevents mass promotion. But then promotion is what the idea needs. It starts to feel like an impossible dream. All it probably needs is a starting point. At the beginning, it seems important to realize that there are leaders and there are followers. To try and turn everyone into a leader in a magical moment is asking for failure. I do think that even followers can learn to be their own leaders as well. Is this just a dream?


Yes it is always good to learn from faliures and start again. With this approach success is bound to come.

It is the history of mankind that whenever people joined a cause it became a religion or something very near to that. This is the basic reason I do not belive in organizations. Personal approach is always better. Seeing one's example others are motivated and they create examples. This process goes on and a synergic effect is created. People participating in the cause do not even know each other but each one of them is participating and contributing to the cause. Do you see the beauty of this approach. Here everybody is leading him/her-self. All are leaders and no body is a leader of any group or organization. I am following it, and it has resulted in a sense of high satisfaction and peace, and no headaches.
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Post by Paula »

gmc wrote: How do the untouchables fit in to this? I've always wondered is it a tenet of hunduism or simple prejudice.


Yes, the untouchable? ignorant to other cultures? Give me a break, if you are coming to my country, i expect some respect? I think Hunduism is okay, but they are too primitive to survive in America.. really not sure, there could be some good ones, as there are bad in all breeds. Their world is appreciated where it comes from, we don't understand here...explain...
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Post by koan »

Couldn't help but notice your comment on "primitive" and your new avatar, Paula. What does primitive mean to you? Is this another bizarre self comment?

Only ask because, generally, to call someone primitive is an insult in the modern world. Not sure if you were aware of that.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

Why Paula, why do you think followers of Hunduism are too primitive to survive in America? A Hindu will survive at any place. This is the beauty of this religion. It accepts all people, all thought, all approaches.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

Hello Debbie, nice to read your post. You wiil getlot of information on this forum.

Today I have read one article titled 'Your mind is not a dustbin'. Let me share with you few lines from this article:

"The mind is as pure as dew. People tend to park their ill feelings, jealousy, anxiety, hatred and what not in their minds. Soon it envelops their character and face. Out mind is like a still pond to be stoned and to create ripples in it. How sad, it is that humans fill it with impurities and dirty it in seconds."
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Post by koan »

lesley wrote: im not looking for a new path...we are at all times on a path...no.one starts a path they just vere off the one they were on....surely if one looks for a path you would hope to find the right path...in terms of us all being the same and seeing ourselves in others...that only confirms we are all the same therefore there can ultimately be only one right path xx


And if you burn witches, you also burn wood, wood floats and so does a duck...then obviously if someone weighs the same as a duck they are a witch.

Monty Python is right!
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Post by koan »

I am being honest.

The Python sketch is to point out the foolishness of our "logical" assumptions. Everytime you make a "therefore" and think that something has been proven you are weighing a duck. There are many different levels to the concept of a path. There may be only one path if you look at the broad scope and say that the path is through being human but that denies the life that exists in plants etc. As far as our mental process goes there are as many paths as there are people. We could even discuss them and perhaps agree that we all believed the same thing but our personal experience of that reality would in fact be different. I don't believe I see myself in people anymore because I am not looking for myself anymore. I do see the core spirit and energy source from which we all draw but they are not me and I am not them. We are all different pieces of the same puzzle. That is what I currently believe.
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Post by koan »

It is rather presumptuous to tell me what I see.

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