M.A.S;1339813 wrote: I don't really have medical experience in genes and these stuff but I think that being home is a choice"bad choice indeed:p" UNLESS that person is having both men stuff and women stuff in his/ her body.
since you're westerners and you've different culture that I do, do you really respect homosexual people? If the answer is 'Yes' then why it's so interesting to argue about homos.
"Westerners" are not all the same and one of the issues that divide us is homosexuality.
Apart from the normal separation between those who are secure in their own sexuality and those who feel thretened by homosexualy there is another division between those who believe that the Bible (and thus God) prohibits homosexuality and those who don't.
Most people in western culture take the attitude "live and let live" but those that don't are the more vocal.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Bryn Mawr;1339819 wrote: "Westerners" are not all the same and one of the issues that divide us is homosexuality.
Apart from the normal separation between those who are secure in their own sexuality and those who feel thretened by homosexualy there is another division between those who believe that the Bible (and thus God) prohibits homosexuality and those who don't.
Most people in western culture take the attitude "live and let live" but those that don't are the more vocal.
First, Thank you for explanation,
I think that people live and experience based on "built in" choices and information. For example, on of the "built in" things in our nature is to do good things unless some problems accrues at that part .Since a lot of people doesn't like homos, then it shouldn't be respective action.
Also, It's well known that (+) with (+) = repulsion unless a force is acting in between. so logically the (+) with (+) or (-) with (-) is the homo people and the acting force is the environment or surrounding"it could be parents or culture or illness " . I can conclude that repulsion is affecting adversely on the surrounding. so (+) with (-) = attraction which is the right thing to do.
All what I wrote based on magnetic fields in Electrical science. However, I'm sure guaranteed that all of you know that our bodies specially brains have a lot of electrical signals, so that applies for human being.
Apart from the normal separation between those who are secure in their own sexuality and those who feel thretened by homosexualy there is another division between those who believe that the Bible (and thus God) prohibits homosexuality and those who don't.
Most people in western culture take the attitude "live and let live" but those that don't are the more vocal.
First, Thank you for explanation,
I think that people live and experience based on "built in" choices and information. For example, on of the "built in" things in our nature is to do good things unless some problems accrues at that part .Since a lot of people doesn't like homos, then it shouldn't be respective action.
Also, It's well known that (+) with (+) = repulsion unless a force is acting in between. so logically the (+) with (+) or (-) with (-) is the homo people and the acting force is the environment or surrounding"it could be parents or culture or illness " . I can conclude that repulsion is affecting adversely on the surrounding. so (+) with (-) = attraction which is the right thing to do.
All what I wrote based on magnetic fields in Electrical science. However, I'm sure guaranteed that all of you know that our bodies specially brains have a lot of electrical signals, so that applies for human being.
I miss you Odie
Is Being Homosexual a choice
M.A.S;1339826 wrote: First, Thank you for explanation,
I think that people live and experience based on "built in" choices and information. For example, on of the "built in" things in our nature is to do good things unless some problems accrues at that part .Since a lot of people doesn't like homos, then it shouldn't be respective action.
Also, It's well known that (+) with (+) = repulsion unless a force is acting in between. so logically the (+) with (+) or (-) with (-) is the homo people and the acting force is the environment or surrounding"it could be parents or culture or illness " . I can conclude that repulsion is affecting adversely on the surrounding. so (+) with (-) = attraction which is the right thing to do.
All what I wrote based on magnetic fields in Electrical science. However, I'm sure guaranteed that all of you know that our bodies specially brains have a lot of electrical signals, so that applies for human being.
If a magnet is the equivalent to a single wire powering a lightbulb then a person is the PC on your desk. Whilst the magnet has only one way of acting a person is programmed for many complex functions. What applies to the one does not apply to the other and you cannot compare them :p
I think that people live and experience based on "built in" choices and information. For example, on of the "built in" things in our nature is to do good things unless some problems accrues at that part .Since a lot of people doesn't like homos, then it shouldn't be respective action.
Also, It's well known that (+) with (+) = repulsion unless a force is acting in between. so logically the (+) with (+) or (-) with (-) is the homo people and the acting force is the environment or surrounding"it could be parents or culture or illness " . I can conclude that repulsion is affecting adversely on the surrounding. so (+) with (-) = attraction which is the right thing to do.
All what I wrote based on magnetic fields in Electrical science. However, I'm sure guaranteed that all of you know that our bodies specially brains have a lot of electrical signals, so that applies for human being.
If a magnet is the equivalent to a single wire powering a lightbulb then a person is the PC on your desk. Whilst the magnet has only one way of acting a person is programmed for many complex functions. What applies to the one does not apply to the other and you cannot compare them :p
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Bryn Mawr;1339829 wrote: If a magnet is the equivalent to a single wire powering a lightbulb then a person is the PC on your desk. Whilst the magnet has only one way of acting a person is programmed for many complex functions. What applies to the one does not apply to the other and you cannot compare them :p
OK sir,
so you're saying that being homosexual is good thing? I'm not forcing you to accept my theories but I was trying to make sense here and I gave an example just to make the picture clear. However, nature of human being is to get results and the results that people get from "correct relationships" are new babies. I know that homo are less than 90 % in all the world I think,.. but a bad apple can make all apples in the same box bad too. :p and hey, simulations are really Important in our lives, so as my example of magnetic stuff.
OK sir,
so you're saying that being homosexual is good thing? I'm not forcing you to accept my theories but I was trying to make sense here and I gave an example just to make the picture clear. However, nature of human being is to get results and the results that people get from "correct relationships" are new babies. I know that homo are less than 90 % in all the world I think,.. but a bad apple can make all apples in the same box bad too. :p and hey, simulations are really Important in our lives, so as my example of magnetic stuff.
I miss you Odie
Is Being Homosexual a choice
M.A.S;1339834 wrote: OK sir,
so you're saying that being homosexual is good thing? I'm not forcing you to accept my theories but I was trying to make sense here and I gave an example just to make the picture clear. However, nature of human being is to get results and the results that people get from "correct relationships" are new babies. I know that homo are less than 90 % in all the world I think,.. but a bad apple can make all apples in the same box bad too. :p and hey, simulations are really Important in our lives, so as my example of magnetic stuff.
Not in the slightest - I'm saying it is different, not better.
To me, I cannot see the attraction - the does not mean that I believe that no-one else should see the attraction either.
so you're saying that being homosexual is good thing? I'm not forcing you to accept my theories but I was trying to make sense here and I gave an example just to make the picture clear. However, nature of human being is to get results and the results that people get from "correct relationships" are new babies. I know that homo are less than 90 % in all the world I think,.. but a bad apple can make all apples in the same box bad too. :p and hey, simulations are really Important in our lives, so as my example of magnetic stuff.
Not in the slightest - I'm saying it is different, not better.
To me, I cannot see the attraction - the does not mean that I believe that no-one else should see the attraction either.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Bryn Mawr;1339835 wrote: Not in the slightest - I'm saying it is different, not better.
To me, I cannot see the attraction - the does not mean that I believe that no-one else should see the attraction either.
That's what I was trying to extract from your electrical signals, see how can these be very useful sometimes :guitarist
Thank you
To me, I cannot see the attraction - the does not mean that I believe that no-one else should see the attraction either.
That's what I was trying to extract from your electrical signals, see how can these be very useful sometimes :guitarist
Thank you
I miss you Odie
Is Being Homosexual a choice
M.A.S;1339837 wrote:
That's what I was trying to extract from your electrical signals, see how can these be very useful sometimes :guitarist
Thank you
Talking in allegories can help understanding but it can also confuse. When confused it always helps to ask
That's what I was trying to extract from your electrical signals, see how can these be very useful sometimes :guitarist
Thank you
Talking in allegories can help understanding but it can also confuse. When confused it always helps to ask
Is Being Homosexual a choice
I think the evidence against choice exists irrefutably. If people had a choice they wouldn't choose be ostracized, beaten, rejected from organizations that they deeply wish to belong to, disowned by family and friends and generally made so miserable they kill themselves.
How many people wore purple today?
How many people wore purple today?
Is Being Homosexual a choice
I know this thread wasn't supposed to get emotional but LGBT teen suicide due to bullying has recently been brought to attention due to a rash of suicides very close together in the last month or so. I started out responding to this as a philosophical question but just can't see it that way anymore. I won't apologize for saying this:
Anyone who wants to judge and preach and claim that a gay person just has to change their mind to stop being gay should be forced to dig the graves of every teenager who kills themselves because the world won't accept their sexuality. Grab a shovel... you'll be digging a long time and at some point might start realizing it's not a simple matter of choice. Shame. Shame on anyone who can't put aside their dogmatism to realize that people are dying due to ignorance and fear.
Anyone who wants to judge and preach and claim that a gay person just has to change their mind to stop being gay should be forced to dig the graves of every teenager who kills themselves because the world won't accept their sexuality. Grab a shovel... you'll be digging a long time and at some point might start realizing it's not a simple matter of choice. Shame. Shame on anyone who can't put aside their dogmatism to realize that people are dying due to ignorance and fear.
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
M.A.S;1339813 wrote: I don't really have medical experience in genes and these stuff but I think that being home is a choice"bad choice indeed:p" UNLESS that person is having both men stuff and women stuff in his/ her body.
since you're westerners and you've different culture that I do, do you really respect homosexual people? If the answer is 'Yes' then why it's so interesting to argue about homos.
Before you give lectures and slam western culture, you need to deal with beheadings, stonings and other barbaric actions considered justice where you are living! Time for your country to spend its money on digging itself out of the dark ages before all of the oil runs out.
since you're westerners and you've different culture that I do, do you really respect homosexual people? If the answer is 'Yes' then why it's so interesting to argue about homos.
Before you give lectures and slam western culture, you need to deal with beheadings, stonings and other barbaric actions considered justice where you are living! Time for your country to spend its money on digging itself out of the dark ages before all of the oil runs out.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
specifically,
CinnamonBear;1339676 wrote: Yes, it's a choice. There is no gay gene.
Briefly stated, choices lead to actions and actions lead to consequences.
ya know... you can only feign ignorance for so long before people figure out you're just, plain ignorant.
CinnamonBear;1339676 wrote: Yes, it's a choice. There is no gay gene.
Briefly stated, choices lead to actions and actions lead to consequences.
ya know... you can only feign ignorance for so long before people figure out you're just, plain ignorant.
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recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
koan;1339874 wrote: I know this thread wasn't supposed to get emotional but LGBT teen suicide due to bullying has recently been brought to attention due to a rash of suicides very close together in the last month or so. I started out responding to this as a philosophical question but just can't see it that way anymore. I won't apologize for saying this:
Anyone who wants to judge and preach and claim that a gay person just has to change their mind to stop being gay should be forced to dig the graves of every teenager who kills themselves because the world won't accept their sexuality. Grab a shovel... you'll be digging a long time and at some point might start realizing it's not a simple matter of choice. Shame. Shame on anyone who can't put aside their dogmatism to realize that people are dying due to ignorance and fear.
Shaming isn't going to work on people with no conscience. The only thing that puts religious zealots back on their heels is when someone that they know personally and care about, turns out to be gay. As long as it's some faceless outside group, they don't care if they live or die.
Anyone who wants to judge and preach and claim that a gay person just has to change their mind to stop being gay should be forced to dig the graves of every teenager who kills themselves because the world won't accept their sexuality. Grab a shovel... you'll be digging a long time and at some point might start realizing it's not a simple matter of choice. Shame. Shame on anyone who can't put aside their dogmatism to realize that people are dying due to ignorance and fear.
Shaming isn't going to work on people with no conscience. The only thing that puts religious zealots back on their heels is when someone that they know personally and care about, turns out to be gay. As long as it's some faceless outside group, they don't care if they live or die.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
recovering conservative;1339876 wrote: Before you give lectures and slam western culture, you need to deal with beheadings, stonings and other barbaric actions considered justice where you are living! Time for your country to spend its money on digging itself out of the dark ages before all of the oil runs out.
It this going to be thrown out every time M.A.S. expresses an opinion?
Can we keep to the subject in hand please and maybe have a decent conversation rather than holding M.A.S. personally responsible for the actions of some within his culture.
It this going to be thrown out every time M.A.S. expresses an opinion?
Can we keep to the subject in hand please and maybe have a decent conversation rather than holding M.A.S. personally responsible for the actions of some within his culture.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
The trouble with the electrical charge comparison is that every electron repels every other electron, every proton repels every other proton, every proton attracts every electron. Sexuality isn't at all like that otherwise we'd not be having this thread in the first place. I think perhaps that MAS is suggesting that God constructed people and charged particles to behave in that completely polarised way and that refusing to conform goes against God's command. While he succeeded with electricity he obviously failed with people. Blaming people for that failure is unjust, the fault clearly lies with God.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Bryn Mawr;1339889 wrote: It this going to be thrown out every time M.A.S. expresses an opinion?
Can we keep to the subject in hand please and maybe have a decent conversation rather than holding M.A.S. personally responsible for the actions of some within his culture.
I'm not familiar with his other posts yet; nevertheless I'm not going to back off and let him mock the west for trying to deal with this issue in a humane manner. He's condemning homosexuals and our attempt to accept them, while he is speaking from a country that makes homosexuality a capital crime, and kills them if convicted. If you want to let him get away with throwing stones from his glass house, that's your choice! But don't expect me to play that game too.
Can we keep to the subject in hand please and maybe have a decent conversation rather than holding M.A.S. personally responsible for the actions of some within his culture.
I'm not familiar with his other posts yet; nevertheless I'm not going to back off and let him mock the west for trying to deal with this issue in a humane manner. He's condemning homosexuals and our attempt to accept them, while he is speaking from a country that makes homosexuality a capital crime, and kills them if convicted. If you want to let him get away with throwing stones from his glass house, that's your choice! But don't expect me to play that game too.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
recovering conservative;1339906 wrote: I'm not familiar with his other posts yet; nevertheless I'm not going to back off and let him mock the west for trying to deal with this issue in a humane manner. He's condemning homosexuals and our attempt to accept them, while he is speaking from a country that makes homosexuality a capital crime, and kills them if convicted. If you want to let him get away with throwing stones from his glass house, that's your choice! But don't expect me to play that game too.
He was not mocking anyone, we were in the middle of a conversation if you care to read it. Remember that English is a foreign language to him and nuances escape him both in reading and in his writing, no mockery was intended, he has been trying to find out what our attitudes are and how and why they differ from what he's used to.
Also remember that he is not responsible for Saudi law or the application thereof.
You are not the first in the Garden to react in just that way when he posts on any subject involving culture. How can we learn and resolve differences if we cannot hold a conversation?
He was not mocking anyone, we were in the middle of a conversation if you care to read it. Remember that English is a foreign language to him and nuances escape him both in reading and in his writing, no mockery was intended, he has been trying to find out what our attitudes are and how and why they differ from what he's used to.
Also remember that he is not responsible for Saudi law or the application thereof.
You are not the first in the Garden to react in just that way when he posts on any subject involving culture. How can we learn and resolve differences if we cannot hold a conversation?
Is Being Homosexual a choice
The focus of this thread so far has been the individual rather than society. It ignores the opinion that people are entirely conditioned by the environment into which they are born and in which they live.
Some societies accept homosexuality as a lifestyle, some consider it an abomination. The pressure to conform with intolerance prevents some from expressing their inclination. I can't think off-hand of any society in which homosexuality has been the societal default but there are certainly some which have been formally neutral, my own among them.
I'm optimistic as far as the future's concerned. Legislative sanction as a means of imposing societal prejudice has no place in any society I'd want to live in.
Some societies accept homosexuality as a lifestyle, some consider it an abomination. The pressure to conform with intolerance prevents some from expressing their inclination. I can't think off-hand of any society in which homosexuality has been the societal default but there are certainly some which have been formally neutral, my own among them.
I'm optimistic as far as the future's concerned. Legislative sanction as a means of imposing societal prejudice has no place in any society I'd want to live in.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
I have worked and socialised with both male and female gay people. I also have a relation who is gay.
In my own personal opinion they are what they are and don't have a choice about thier sexual preferences but I have no medical, psyhcological expertise when coming to this conclusion. They all have long term partners and are amongst the nicest and 'ordinary' people I have ever met. There are no environmental, negative family influences etc in any of thier past lives.
In my own personal opinion they are what they are and don't have a choice about thier sexual preferences but I have no medical, psyhcological expertise when coming to this conclusion. They all have long term partners and are amongst the nicest and 'ordinary' people I have ever met. There are no environmental, negative family influences etc in any of thier past lives.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
Is Being Homosexual a choice
recovering conservative;1339876 wrote: Before you give lectures and slam western culture, you need to deal with beheadings, stonings and other barbaric actions considered justice where you are living! Time for your country to spend its money on digging itself out of the dark ages before all of the oil runs out.
Am I really good at giving lectures? :p
First of all, I'm not here to fight or force you to understand my opinion or even what I think about so calm down, relax and have a cup of coffee. Secondly, yes I wish my country spend some money to get out from the second world. If you're really mad at oil running out, please come and have an oil shower. However, all what I wrote in this thread was based on common sense, I DID NOT write things from my culture or whatever. you know, being Arabian is a little bit hard these days, media and other things are missing your brains to hate easterners and missing our brains to hate westerners so CONGRATULATION they succeeded their goal.Here is the funny part, the way people look at me when I go out the country is like walking naked :yh_rotfl though it's funny.
NOTE: I respected you when replied. That does not mean that I'm weak.
Am I really good at giving lectures? :p
First of all, I'm not here to fight or force you to understand my opinion or even what I think about so calm down, relax and have a cup of coffee. Secondly, yes I wish my country spend some money to get out from the second world. If you're really mad at oil running out, please come and have an oil shower. However, all what I wrote in this thread was based on common sense, I DID NOT write things from my culture or whatever. you know, being Arabian is a little bit hard these days, media and other things are missing your brains to hate easterners and missing our brains to hate westerners so CONGRATULATION they succeeded their goal.Here is the funny part, the way people look at me when I go out the country is like walking naked :yh_rotfl though it's funny.
NOTE: I respected you when replied. That does not mean that I'm weak.
I miss you Odie
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Bryn Mawr;1339889 wrote: It this going to be thrown out every time M.A.S. expresses an opinion?
Can we keep to the subject in hand please and maybe have a decent conversation rather than holding M.A.S. personally responsible for the actions of some within his culture.
Thank you sir,
O.K guys, let's not screw this thread up, so please If you have any problem with my culture It's not my responsibility. If you insist, send me a pm.
Can we keep to the subject in hand please and maybe have a decent conversation rather than holding M.A.S. personally responsible for the actions of some within his culture.
Thank you sir,
O.K guys, let's not screw this thread up, so please If you have any problem with my culture It's not my responsibility. If you insist, send me a pm.
I miss you Odie
Is Being Homosexual a choice
spot;1339894 wrote: The trouble with the electrical charge comparison is that every electron repels every other electron, every proton repels every other proton, every proton attracts every electron. Sexuality isn't at all like that otherwise we'd not be having this thread in the first place. I think perhaps that MAS is suggesting that God constructed people and charged particles to behave in that completely polarised way and that refusing to conform goes against God's command. While he succeeded with electricity he obviously failed with people. Blaming people for that failure is unjust, the fault clearly lies with God.
umm That's Interesting but even the electrical charges(EC) works fine with homo inside their brains I think but the force acting to confuse EC is the surrounding.
umm That's Interesting but even the electrical charges(EC) works fine with homo inside their brains I think but the force acting to confuse EC is the surrounding.
I miss you Odie
Is Being Homosexual a choice
M.A.S;1339937 wrote: umm That's Interesting but even the electrical charges(EC) works fine with homo inside their brains I think but the force acting to confuse EC is the surrounding.
Can you think of a way to confuse electrical charges into +/+ or -/- attraction? I can't. You can bring repelling plates into contact by brute physical force but they fight it all the way. That doesn't sound much like homosexual attraction.
Can you think of a way to confuse electrical charges into +/+ or -/- attraction? I can't. You can bring repelling plates into contact by brute physical force but they fight it all the way. That doesn't sound much like homosexual attraction.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
spot;1339938 wrote: Can you think of a way to confuse electrical charges into +/+ or -/- attraction? I can't. You can bring repelling plates into contact by brute physical force but they fight it all the way. That doesn't sound much like homosexual attraction.
I like the way you diagnose the Idea but after a while of connecting these +/+ or -/- plates the magnetic field will decrease until it reaches zero. same applies, when a homo start thinking +/+ he/she cannot start it right a way.
I like the way you diagnose the Idea but after a while of connecting these +/+ or -/- plates the magnetic field will decrease until it reaches zero. same applies, when a homo start thinking +/+ he/she cannot start it right a way.
I miss you Odie
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Homosexuality is not a choice. Like people are born with malformed limbs, or have other 'faults' at birth, so people are born with an inbalance which is homosexuality. They can't help it! As Koan, I think it was, said that who in their right mind would choose to be homosexual, with certain sections of the community 'picking' on them and making their lives hell ? Many of them try to hide their sexuality because of all the bullying and loathing that could be cast their way.
I know some homosexuals, and without exception, they wish they were female in their female body, or male in their male body. I also know bi-sexuals, and feel they have almost a worse 'deal', not knowing who or what they really are ! It is very confusing to say the least. Their plight is for most of them, desperate.
I'm so glad I am totally heterosexual, as I can only imagine what trials are going on in the minds of a homosexual, and it is no surprise to me that many of them just cannot take the stress any longer and put an end to their suffering, because quite honestly, it is suffering, and there seems to be no cure.
Unfortunately, there is a large group of homosexuals who exagerate their femininity and flaunt a very 'camp' demeanour, which causes many non-gay people to class all homosexuals into this 'camp' group. This is not helpful to the homosexuals who just want to get on with their lives as best they can, with the 'hand' that they have been dealt.
The thought did occur to me some time ago, that maybe it is nature's way of reducing the population of the world, to cause more homosexual people who would have no desire to procreate ! We all know that there are far too many people in the world at this time, with possibly not enough food for everybody to survive. Natures choice seems to be, either create a new disease that has no cure, or cause more people to be born homosexual. Just a thought.
I know some homosexuals, and without exception, they wish they were female in their female body, or male in their male body. I also know bi-sexuals, and feel they have almost a worse 'deal', not knowing who or what they really are ! It is very confusing to say the least. Their plight is for most of them, desperate.
I'm so glad I am totally heterosexual, as I can only imagine what trials are going on in the minds of a homosexual, and it is no surprise to me that many of them just cannot take the stress any longer and put an end to their suffering, because quite honestly, it is suffering, and there seems to be no cure.
Unfortunately, there is a large group of homosexuals who exagerate their femininity and flaunt a very 'camp' demeanour, which causes many non-gay people to class all homosexuals into this 'camp' group. This is not helpful to the homosexuals who just want to get on with their lives as best they can, with the 'hand' that they have been dealt.
The thought did occur to me some time ago, that maybe it is nature's way of reducing the population of the world, to cause more homosexual people who would have no desire to procreate ! We all know that there are far too many people in the world at this time, with possibly not enough food for everybody to survive. Natures choice seems to be, either create a new disease that has no cure, or cause more people to be born homosexual. Just a thought.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Is Being Homosexual a choice
M.A.S;1339940 wrote: when a homo start thinking +/+ he/she cannot start it right a way.On the contrary, many homosexuals are convinced of their sexual orientation before they even reach puberty. You keep suggesting that there's a pressure on them to adopt homosexuality - where does that pressure come from? I don't think it exists. On the contrary, expressing homosexual behaviour at any age leaves the person open to criticism by all those who abhor the practice. If there's any pressure within society it's in the direction of rejecting those feelings, and the more homophobic a society is the more its naturally homosexual element will suppress them.
Where in the world do you think there's a pressure on anyone to become homosexual?
Where in the world do you think there's a pressure on anyone to become homosexual?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: This is not helpful to the homosexuals who just want to get on with their lives as best they can, with the 'hand' that they have been dealt.That's not homosexuality, Gill, that's self-abuse.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
CinnamonBear
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:08 am
Is Being Homosexual a choice
MAS, please don't go away thinking that the majority view and anger expressed on this one thread on the internet represents the entire "Western World." It doesn't, not by far.
There are millions upon millions of westerners who believe it is a very sad and wrong choice. Personally, my opinion is based not just on gut instinct and science, but God's Law, which supports both. One voice, one opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.
There are millions upon millions of westerners who believe it is a very sad and wrong choice. Personally, my opinion is based not just on gut instinct and science, but God's Law, which supports both. One voice, one opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
CinnamonBear;1339952 wrote: There are millions upon millions of westerners who believe it is a very sad and wrong choice. Personally, my opinion is based not just on gut instinct and science, but God's Law, which supports both.Science, CB?
Go on, extend that a bit. What about science?
I'll drop this link in, just for the record...Sexual hormones and the brain: an essential alliance for sexual identity and sexual orientation.
Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF. Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955753
Go on, extend that a bit. What about science?
I'll drop this link in, just for the record...Sexual hormones and the brain: an essential alliance for sexual identity and sexual orientation.
Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF. Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955753
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
I mostly agree with what you've said: Just some caveats.G#Gill;1339942 wrote: Homosexuality is not a choice. Like people are born with malformed limbs, or have other 'faults' at birth, so people are born with an imbalance which is homosexuality. They can't help it! As Koan, I think it was, said that who in their right mind would choose to be homosexual, with certain sections of the community 'picking' on them and making their lives hell ? Many of them try to hide their sexuality because of all the bullying and loathing that could be cast their way.No it isn't a choice to be gay but it is a choice not to procreate with a member of the opposite sex. To me thats the extent of choice concerning sexual orientation. Heterosexual people remain in less that optimal relationships for various reasons such as religious or for the sake of the kids or what have you for the purpose of fulfilling their natural function of reproducing, but more and more gay people are refusing to make that sacrifice. I'm not making any moral judgments on that issue as much as voicing the observation.
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: I know some homosexuals, and without exception, they wish they were female in their female body, or male in their male body. I also know bi-sexuals, and feel they have almost a worse 'deal', not knowing who or what they really are ! It is very confusing to say the least. Their plight is for most of them, desperate.This has been my observation as well with the exception of bi-sexual people. To me they are more comfortable with themselves than gay people.
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: I'm so glad I am totally heterosexual, as I can only imagine what trials are going on in the minds of a homosexual, and it is no surprise to me that many of them just cannot take the stress any longer and put an end to their suffering, because quite honestly, it is suffering, and there seems to be no cure.Cure? Why does there need to be a cure? What I find most interesting about the abuse is that those that harass gay people are those that deny evolutionary theory, yet the very thing they harass gays for is that gays don't seem to fit into the selection process anywhere. I think that goes to show that evolutionary theory is more intuitive than it is conscious in the uneducated.
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: Unfortunately, there is a large group of homosexuals who exagerate their femininity and flaunt a very 'camp' demeanour, which causes many non-gay people to class all homosexuals into this 'camp' group. This is not helpful to the homosexuals who just want to get on with their lives as best they can, with the 'hand' that they have been dealt.Any group who believe they are repressed and looked down upon behave this way, its no surprise really.
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: The thought did occur to me some time ago, that maybe it is nature's way of reducing the population of the world, to cause more homosexual people who would have no desire to procreate ! We all know that there are far too many people in the world at this time, with possibly not enough food for everybody to survive. Natures choice seems to be, either create a new disease that has no cure, or cause more people to be born homosexual. Just a thought.I've thought about this as well. If that were the case we would witness a larger percentage of gay population in area's or countries with the highest population density and we don't see that. Also, evolution (natural process) is diametrically opposite of limiting, regulating or reducing population - thats where the brain can help.
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: I know some homosexuals, and without exception, they wish they were female in their female body, or male in their male body. I also know bi-sexuals, and feel they have almost a worse 'deal', not knowing who or what they really are ! It is very confusing to say the least. Their plight is for most of them, desperate.This has been my observation as well with the exception of bi-sexual people. To me they are more comfortable with themselves than gay people.
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: I'm so glad I am totally heterosexual, as I can only imagine what trials are going on in the minds of a homosexual, and it is no surprise to me that many of them just cannot take the stress any longer and put an end to their suffering, because quite honestly, it is suffering, and there seems to be no cure.Cure? Why does there need to be a cure? What I find most interesting about the abuse is that those that harass gay people are those that deny evolutionary theory, yet the very thing they harass gays for is that gays don't seem to fit into the selection process anywhere. I think that goes to show that evolutionary theory is more intuitive than it is conscious in the uneducated.
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: Unfortunately, there is a large group of homosexuals who exagerate their femininity and flaunt a very 'camp' demeanour, which causes many non-gay people to class all homosexuals into this 'camp' group. This is not helpful to the homosexuals who just want to get on with their lives as best they can, with the 'hand' that they have been dealt.Any group who believe they are repressed and looked down upon behave this way, its no surprise really.
G#Gill;1339942 wrote: The thought did occur to me some time ago, that maybe it is nature's way of reducing the population of the world, to cause more homosexual people who would have no desire to procreate ! We all know that there are far too many people in the world at this time, with possibly not enough food for everybody to survive. Natures choice seems to be, either create a new disease that has no cure, or cause more people to be born homosexual. Just a thought.I've thought about this as well. If that were the case we would witness a larger percentage of gay population in area's or countries with the highest population density and we don't see that. Also, evolution (natural process) is diametrically opposite of limiting, regulating or reducing population - thats where the brain can help.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is Being Homosexual a choice
spot;1339945 wrote: That's not homosexuality, Gill, that's self-abuse.
You are being a silly billy now !
You are being a silly billy now !
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
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Boogalette
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:01 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
LarsMac;1339704 wrote: around 19 or 20
Really?
Personally, I have no physical desire for MY gender. I am only attracted to men. I had no choice in it.
So you are attracted to both men and women? I am not trying to be a goof, as I also think that people can be attracted to both. I`m just wondering.
Really?
Personally, I have no physical desire for MY gender. I am only attracted to men. I had no choice in it.
So you are attracted to both men and women? I am not trying to be a goof, as I also think that people can be attracted to both. I`m just wondering.
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
M.A.S;1339935 wrote: Am I really good at giving lectures? :p
First of all, I'm not here to fight or force you to understand my opinion or even what I think about so calm down, relax and have a cup of coffee.
Okay, first let me apologize if you feel that I am trying to offend you or mock your culture; that is not what I was trying to do here. Maybe you are not fluent in English, but I figured I was getting the jist of your analogy using magnetism -- and it was just a creative way of saying that homosexuals are deviants doing unnatural behaviour:
Also, It's well known that (+) with (+) = repulsion unless a force is acting in between. so logically the (+) with (+) or (-) with (-) is the homo people and the acting force is the environment or surrounding"it could be parents or culture or illness " . I can conclude that repulsion is affecting adversely on the surrounding. so (+) with (-) = attraction which is the right thing to do.
Now, what am I missing here? This analogy sounds like something as complicated as human behaviour should be as simple as magnetic attraction and repulsion.
Just one problem -- even among heterosexuals, not all of the sex between men and women is for reproduction! In fact, in the West, where raising children is expensive and people move about frequently, it is a smart thing to have only as many children as you can comfortably support and raise to adulthood. So, over here, the only social forces trying to ban birth control and make sex just for procreation are the extreme Christian fundamentalists such as conservative Catholics....and they're not having much success in their quest, for what it's worth!
If we take 'sex only for procreation' off the table, there is no argument against homosexuals for engaging in sexual practices that cannot lead to pregnancy. The only reasons for condemning them are that they have become homosexuals by choice, and their lifestyle leads to getting sexually transmitted diseases, and death.
First, the condemnation about gays spreading disease: in the U.S. at least, if the numbers on AIDS and other STD's is broken down further, gay men do have the highest rates of STD's in the population; but what the religious conservatives don't include in their talks is that lesbians, or gay women have the lowest STD rates, even lower than heterosexual women. Does that make lesbianism more natural than heterosexuality? This result may partly be because their sexual practices do not carry disease as much as conventional male/female sex, or especially anal sex. But, another key difference that is overlooked is the basic difference is the difference in sexual behaviour between men and women regarding sex. Among a community of gay men, the opportunities for casual sex are not restricted by women -- who take commitment very seriously.
So, what is the best way to deal with the high rates of AIDS and STD's among gay men? Is it to deny they exist, and condemn them if they are caught? A quick scan of history indicates that homosexuals are always among the population, whether they are accepted or not. Even without going into the physical evidence that sexual orientation is out of our conscious control, the fact that they are always a regular small segment of a population - in spite of persecution - indicates that what's been tried so far isn't working! So, why not try something different! Give them the same rights and opportunities, and freedom from persecution, and see if things are better for them (and society as a whole) if they are allowed to live their lives openly and make their own choices in life.
so you're saying that being homosexual is good thing? I'm not forcing you to accept my theories but I was trying to make sense here and I gave an example just to make the picture clear. However, nature of human being is to get results and the results that people get from "correct relationships" are new babies.
I could have added this previously, but another factoid that blows the arguments from natural law out of the water is the simple fact that zoologists studying other mammals, birds and even reptiles, observe homosexual conduct within other species of animals. Higher, more advanced species of animals seem to move beyond using sex just for procreation, and as soon as animals are advanced enough to engage in what we would call 'recreational sex' we find some of them engaging in homosexual conduct.
All what I wrote based on magnetic fields in Electrical science. However, I'm sure guaranteed that all of you know that our bodies specially brains have a lot of electrical signals, so that applies for human being.
Except that our brains have as many as 100 billion neurons, networked in a complex array averaging about 1000 dendrite connections each. There's a lot of things we do that can't be explained by simple laws of attraction, and sexual behaviour would be one of them.
Secondly, yes I wish my country spend some money to get out from the second world. If you're really mad at oil running out, please come and have an oil shower. However, all what I wrote in this thread was based on common sense, I DID NOT write things from my culture or whatever.
I understand, and the only reason I brought up how the laws in your country work, is because homosexuals are still treated as criminals and subject to a death penalty. They were treated in the same way over here decades ago, and many aspects of modernization have made life miserable over here; but on this subject, our growing awareness that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, is a reason for progress, rather than regressing back to our old ways. They are always among us, and the claims of our Christian fundamentalists - that acceptance will lead to an increase in the number of homosexuals is totally bogus and without any support.
you know, being Arabian is a little bit hard these days, media and other things are missing your brains to hate easterners and missing our brains to hate westerners so CONGRATULATION they succeeded their goal.Here is the funny part, the way people look at me when I go out the country is like walking naked :yh_rotfl though it's funny.
And it's not just about being Arab! The West is insecure about its own culture and many are being stampeded into fear and loathing of a foreign culture that has a different source than Western Christian tradition.
I live in a relatively small, but cosmopolitan city near Toronto, and we have small Muslim communities that have come mainly from the Middle East, East Africa, Pakistan and India. They have had a difficult time gaining acceptance here -- but probably not as bad as Western Europe -- and especially, since 9/11, they are noticing that there is a minority of people who are openly hostile towards them. Usually it's just verbal abuse; but last year someone tried to set fire to a local mosque (which failed) and back in the days after 9/11, a man who was trying to take revenge, set fire and burned the Hindu Temple to the ground. He apparently didn't know there was a difference between Hindus and Muslims.....so, stupidity is not in short supply over here!
NOTE: I respected you when replied. That does not mean that I'm weak.
Belligerence on an anonymous discussion forum is no sign of courage, and showing respect on a forum is not weakness.
First of all, I'm not here to fight or force you to understand my opinion or even what I think about so calm down, relax and have a cup of coffee.
Okay, first let me apologize if you feel that I am trying to offend you or mock your culture; that is not what I was trying to do here. Maybe you are not fluent in English, but I figured I was getting the jist of your analogy using magnetism -- and it was just a creative way of saying that homosexuals are deviants doing unnatural behaviour:
Also, It's well known that (+) with (+) = repulsion unless a force is acting in between. so logically the (+) with (+) or (-) with (-) is the homo people and the acting force is the environment or surrounding"it could be parents or culture or illness " . I can conclude that repulsion is affecting adversely on the surrounding. so (+) with (-) = attraction which is the right thing to do.
Now, what am I missing here? This analogy sounds like something as complicated as human behaviour should be as simple as magnetic attraction and repulsion.
Just one problem -- even among heterosexuals, not all of the sex between men and women is for reproduction! In fact, in the West, where raising children is expensive and people move about frequently, it is a smart thing to have only as many children as you can comfortably support and raise to adulthood. So, over here, the only social forces trying to ban birth control and make sex just for procreation are the extreme Christian fundamentalists such as conservative Catholics....and they're not having much success in their quest, for what it's worth!
If we take 'sex only for procreation' off the table, there is no argument against homosexuals for engaging in sexual practices that cannot lead to pregnancy. The only reasons for condemning them are that they have become homosexuals by choice, and their lifestyle leads to getting sexually transmitted diseases, and death.
First, the condemnation about gays spreading disease: in the U.S. at least, if the numbers on AIDS and other STD's is broken down further, gay men do have the highest rates of STD's in the population; but what the religious conservatives don't include in their talks is that lesbians, or gay women have the lowest STD rates, even lower than heterosexual women. Does that make lesbianism more natural than heterosexuality? This result may partly be because their sexual practices do not carry disease as much as conventional male/female sex, or especially anal sex. But, another key difference that is overlooked is the basic difference is the difference in sexual behaviour between men and women regarding sex. Among a community of gay men, the opportunities for casual sex are not restricted by women -- who take commitment very seriously.
So, what is the best way to deal with the high rates of AIDS and STD's among gay men? Is it to deny they exist, and condemn them if they are caught? A quick scan of history indicates that homosexuals are always among the population, whether they are accepted or not. Even without going into the physical evidence that sexual orientation is out of our conscious control, the fact that they are always a regular small segment of a population - in spite of persecution - indicates that what's been tried so far isn't working! So, why not try something different! Give them the same rights and opportunities, and freedom from persecution, and see if things are better for them (and society as a whole) if they are allowed to live their lives openly and make their own choices in life.
so you're saying that being homosexual is good thing? I'm not forcing you to accept my theories but I was trying to make sense here and I gave an example just to make the picture clear. However, nature of human being is to get results and the results that people get from "correct relationships" are new babies.
I could have added this previously, but another factoid that blows the arguments from natural law out of the water is the simple fact that zoologists studying other mammals, birds and even reptiles, observe homosexual conduct within other species of animals. Higher, more advanced species of animals seem to move beyond using sex just for procreation, and as soon as animals are advanced enough to engage in what we would call 'recreational sex' we find some of them engaging in homosexual conduct.
All what I wrote based on magnetic fields in Electrical science. However, I'm sure guaranteed that all of you know that our bodies specially brains have a lot of electrical signals, so that applies for human being.
Except that our brains have as many as 100 billion neurons, networked in a complex array averaging about 1000 dendrite connections each. There's a lot of things we do that can't be explained by simple laws of attraction, and sexual behaviour would be one of them.
Secondly, yes I wish my country spend some money to get out from the second world. If you're really mad at oil running out, please come and have an oil shower. However, all what I wrote in this thread was based on common sense, I DID NOT write things from my culture or whatever.
I understand, and the only reason I brought up how the laws in your country work, is because homosexuals are still treated as criminals and subject to a death penalty. They were treated in the same way over here decades ago, and many aspects of modernization have made life miserable over here; but on this subject, our growing awareness that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, is a reason for progress, rather than regressing back to our old ways. They are always among us, and the claims of our Christian fundamentalists - that acceptance will lead to an increase in the number of homosexuals is totally bogus and without any support.
you know, being Arabian is a little bit hard these days, media and other things are missing your brains to hate easterners and missing our brains to hate westerners so CONGRATULATION they succeeded their goal.Here is the funny part, the way people look at me when I go out the country is like walking naked :yh_rotfl though it's funny.
And it's not just about being Arab! The West is insecure about its own culture and many are being stampeded into fear and loathing of a foreign culture that has a different source than Western Christian tradition.
I live in a relatively small, but cosmopolitan city near Toronto, and we have small Muslim communities that have come mainly from the Middle East, East Africa, Pakistan and India. They have had a difficult time gaining acceptance here -- but probably not as bad as Western Europe -- and especially, since 9/11, they are noticing that there is a minority of people who are openly hostile towards them. Usually it's just verbal abuse; but last year someone tried to set fire to a local mosque (which failed) and back in the days after 9/11, a man who was trying to take revenge, set fire and burned the Hindu Temple to the ground. He apparently didn't know there was a difference between Hindus and Muslims.....so, stupidity is not in short supply over here!
NOTE: I respected you when replied. That does not mean that I'm weak.
Belligerence on an anonymous discussion forum is no sign of courage, and showing respect on a forum is not weakness.
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
CinnamonBear;1339952 wrote: MAS, please don't go away thinking that the majority view and anger expressed on this one thread on the internet represents the entire "Western World." It doesn't, not by far.
There are millions upon millions of westerners who believe it is a very sad and wrong choice. Personally, my opinion is based not just on gut instinct and science, but God's Law, which supports both. One voice, one opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.
The reason there is anger is because people like you want to impose their religious notions of a "Christian Nation" on everyone else.
On this subject, the insistence on treating homosexuality as a choice, in spite of the evidence should be treated as criminal negligence because of the harms that Christian fundamentalists have caused to young gay men and women in their churches when they force them into so called "reparative therapies", and foment the political movements in Uganda and other African nations to seek out and imprison gays and subject them to the death penalty.
The only thing that keeps your brand of Christianity in check, is that it does not yet have the power that it does in Africa. Uganda is our future if Christian Reconstructionists ever come to power.
There are millions upon millions of westerners who believe it is a very sad and wrong choice. Personally, my opinion is based not just on gut instinct and science, but God's Law, which supports both. One voice, one opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.
The reason there is anger is because people like you want to impose their religious notions of a "Christian Nation" on everyone else.
On this subject, the insistence on treating homosexuality as a choice, in spite of the evidence should be treated as criminal negligence because of the harms that Christian fundamentalists have caused to young gay men and women in their churches when they force them into so called "reparative therapies", and foment the political movements in Uganda and other African nations to seek out and imprison gays and subject them to the death penalty.
The only thing that keeps your brand of Christianity in check, is that it does not yet have the power that it does in Africa. Uganda is our future if Christian Reconstructionists ever come to power.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Homosexuality goes waaaay back, it’s even mentioned in the Bible. My belief is people were/are born that way however, I also believe parents can have an effect on the way their child/ children grow up. I’m thinking of one particular family where the mother is very dominant, has influence over the father and reared her son in an unbelievably effeminate manner.
The lad is grown up now, carries himself effeminately in the extreme, and prefers his own sex for company. Although he was a likeable, approachable good looking young child he now looks rather debauched and sort of greasy in appearance. People tend to shy away from him. (and the mother and father incidentally)
Goodness knows what else happened in the privacy of their home to influence the lad.
So what I guess I’m saying is yes, homosexuals are born that way but, they can also be influenced to adopt a homosexual lifestyle from a very young age by the mother. (a sort of brainwashing I suppose)
Some homosexuals fight their natural feelings and prefer to stay celibate. My wife and I have been with them in mixed company and these ones at least, appear to be coping with life and are happy.
I believe it’s their *faith that helps them cope and get on with their lives.
* I say that because the folk we mix with are all of the same faith and genuinely very commited.
The lad is grown up now, carries himself effeminately in the extreme, and prefers his own sex for company. Although he was a likeable, approachable good looking young child he now looks rather debauched and sort of greasy in appearance. People tend to shy away from him. (and the mother and father incidentally)
Goodness knows what else happened in the privacy of their home to influence the lad.
So what I guess I’m saying is yes, homosexuals are born that way but, they can also be influenced to adopt a homosexual lifestyle from a very young age by the mother. (a sort of brainwashing I suppose)
Some homosexuals fight their natural feelings and prefer to stay celibate. My wife and I have been with them in mixed company and these ones at least, appear to be coping with life and are happy.
I believe it’s their *faith that helps them cope and get on with their lives.
* I say that because the folk we mix with are all of the same faith and genuinely very commited.
[FONT=Arial]Just above the clouds
the sun is always shining.
[/FONT]
the sun is always shining.
[/FONT]
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Boogalette;1339970 wrote: Really?
Personally, I have no physical desire for MY gender. I am only attracted to men. I had no choice in it.
So you are attracted to both men and women? I am not trying to be a goof, as I also think that people can be attracted to both. I`m just wondering.
Nope, I was just an adventurous sort when I was young and willing to try almost anything.
Personally, I have no physical desire for MY gender. I am only attracted to men. I had no choice in it.
So you are attracted to both men and women? I am not trying to be a goof, as I also think that people can be attracted to both. I`m just wondering.
Nope, I was just an adventurous sort when I was young and willing to try almost anything.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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Boogalette
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:01 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
LarsMac;1340065 wrote: Nope, I was just an adventurous sort when I was young and willing to try almost anything.
Being curious and adventurous does define a person as choosing their sexuality or make it a choice.
Being curious and adventurous does define a person as choosing their sexuality or make it a choice.
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
binbag;1340062 wrote: Homosexuality goes waaaay back, it’s even mentioned in the Bible. My belief is people were/are born that way however, I also believe parents can have an effect on the way their child/ children grow up. I’m thinking of one particular family where the mother is very dominant, has influence over the father and reared her son in an unbelievably effeminate manner.
The lad is grown up now, carries himself effeminately in the extreme, and prefers his own sex for company. Although he was a likeable, approachable good looking young child he now looks rather debauched and sort of greasy in appearance. People tend to shy away from him. (and the mother and father incidentally)
Goodness knows what else happened in the privacy of their home to influence the lad.
No, this argument homosexuality (in men) was caused by mothers making boys effeminate was cooked up by Sigmund Fraud, and it only is accepted in conservative circles such as Focus On The Family creator - James Dobson. It's bad enough to blame young men for being gay, but this adds to the abuse by blaming it on the mother.
Some homosexuals fight their natural feelings and prefer to stay celibate. My wife and I have been with them in mixed company and these ones at least, appear to be coping with life and are happy.
I believe it’s their *faith that helps them cope and get on with their lives.
* I say that because the folk we mix with are all of the same faith and genuinely very commited.
I don't think anyone should be obligated to live a celibate life, whether they are gay or straight. I know there are Catholic priests who say that it was the right choice for them, and even other religions like Buddhism demand celibacy in their monastic communities....only difference is that most of them don't make it a lifetime commitment. If there was a general requirement that gays be celibate, that wouldn't be fair or even workable!
On a related topic, pushing celibacy on teenagers, through abstinence education, doesn't seem to work there either! Most end up engaging in some sort of sexual conduct....which is made worse because they have no protection or knowledge of birth control. Even among the ones who have succeeded in remaining celibate until marriage; there have been more than a few who have reported problems with sexual dysfunction after they got married. Christianity and all other main religions have been conflicted about what to do about sex -- it's such a primal desire that it scares the bejesus out of the theologians and priestly classes who see sexual desires as something earthly and impairing someone's spirituality.
The lad is grown up now, carries himself effeminately in the extreme, and prefers his own sex for company. Although he was a likeable, approachable good looking young child he now looks rather debauched and sort of greasy in appearance. People tend to shy away from him. (and the mother and father incidentally)
Goodness knows what else happened in the privacy of their home to influence the lad.
No, this argument homosexuality (in men) was caused by mothers making boys effeminate was cooked up by Sigmund Fraud, and it only is accepted in conservative circles such as Focus On The Family creator - James Dobson. It's bad enough to blame young men for being gay, but this adds to the abuse by blaming it on the mother.
Some homosexuals fight their natural feelings and prefer to stay celibate. My wife and I have been with them in mixed company and these ones at least, appear to be coping with life and are happy.
I believe it’s their *faith that helps them cope and get on with their lives.
* I say that because the folk we mix with are all of the same faith and genuinely very commited.
I don't think anyone should be obligated to live a celibate life, whether they are gay or straight. I know there are Catholic priests who say that it was the right choice for them, and even other religions like Buddhism demand celibacy in their monastic communities....only difference is that most of them don't make it a lifetime commitment. If there was a general requirement that gays be celibate, that wouldn't be fair or even workable!
On a related topic, pushing celibacy on teenagers, through abstinence education, doesn't seem to work there either! Most end up engaging in some sort of sexual conduct....which is made worse because they have no protection or knowledge of birth control. Even among the ones who have succeeded in remaining celibate until marriage; there have been more than a few who have reported problems with sexual dysfunction after they got married. Christianity and all other main religions have been conflicted about what to do about sex -- it's such a primal desire that it scares the bejesus out of the theologians and priestly classes who see sexual desires as something earthly and impairing someone's spirituality.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
LarsMac;1340065 wrote: Nope, I was just an adventurous sort when I was young and willing to try almost anything.
The problem may be when one is expected to, and feels obligated to make a choice.
The problem may be when one is expected to, and feels obligated to make a choice.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Is Being Homosexual a choice
recovering conservative;1340078 wrote: No, this argument homosexuality (in men) was caused by mothers making boys effeminate was cooked up by Sigmund Fraud, and it only is accepted in conservative circles such as Focus On The Family creator - James Dobson. It's bad enough to blame young men for being gay, Whoa there recovering conservative, I’m describing personal observations, not, something that was “cooked upâ€
recovering conservative wrote: It's bad enough to blame young men for being gay, I did not apportion “blame†to the lad.
recovering conservative wrote: but this adds to the abuseâ€Abuseâ€? I didn’t mention abuse.
recovering conservative wrote: I don't think anyone should be obligated to live a celibate life, whether they are gay or straight. I know there are Catholic priests who say that it was the right choice for them, and even other religions like Buddhism demand celibacy in their monastic communities....only difference is that most of them don't make it a lifetime commitment. If there was a general requirement that gays be celibate, that wouldn't be fair or even workable! Did I even hint, at anything regarding a requirement or an obligation?
Overall, you’ve made assumptions and posted your thoughts in as my thoughts.
Naughty naughty. Go and stand in the naughty corner.
recovering conservative wrote: Christianity and all other main religions have been conflicted about what to do about sex -- it's such a primal desire that it scares the bejesus out of the theologians and priestly classes who see sexual desires as something earthly and impairing someone's spirituality. There is not a thing wrong with having a clean and healthy sexual desire (in marriage). Healthy sex does not interfere with one’s spirituality.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please to be taking the note of = It wasn't me who raised the dreaded word "Christians" in the thread
ok littleCJelkton :wah:
recovering conservative wrote: It's bad enough to blame young men for being gay, I did not apportion “blame†to the lad.
recovering conservative wrote: but this adds to the abuseâ€Abuseâ€? I didn’t mention abuse.
recovering conservative wrote: I don't think anyone should be obligated to live a celibate life, whether they are gay or straight. I know there are Catholic priests who say that it was the right choice for them, and even other religions like Buddhism demand celibacy in their monastic communities....only difference is that most of them don't make it a lifetime commitment. If there was a general requirement that gays be celibate, that wouldn't be fair or even workable! Did I even hint, at anything regarding a requirement or an obligation?
Overall, you’ve made assumptions and posted your thoughts in as my thoughts.
Naughty naughty. Go and stand in the naughty corner.
recovering conservative wrote: Christianity and all other main religions have been conflicted about what to do about sex -- it's such a primal desire that it scares the bejesus out of the theologians and priestly classes who see sexual desires as something earthly and impairing someone's spirituality. There is not a thing wrong with having a clean and healthy sexual desire (in marriage). Healthy sex does not interfere with one’s spirituality.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please to be taking the note of = It wasn't me who raised the dreaded word "Christians" in the thread
ok littleCJelkton :wah:
[FONT=Arial]Just above the clouds
the sun is always shining.
[/FONT]
the sun is always shining.
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
binbag;1340105 wrote:
Please to be taking the note of = It wasn't me who raised the dreaded word "Christians" in the thread
ok littleCJelkton :wah:
I guess it was inevitable as any person at least a bit extreme in their devotion to faith will bring religion in to the mix, as one of the main things this thread is about is making choices and a person's faith is a big part of the enviorment that affects those choices. That is what I brought up this issue for, as it is a very confusing and highly debatable topic which envokes intense emotions, and it has brought up some very interesting points which is why again is why I brought it to this forum from FB. As since I have been here the members have been able to enlighten me on subjects in what is usually a cordial manner. Since I have started the thread and read the post, and doing my own research I have a better understanding on how sexuality (hetero, Homo, and bi) are not just a product of choice, but a combination of choice, differences in personal harmone levels, and the enviroment in which a individual is raised, but I still see a individuals choice being the main thing in determining sexuality as most all our choices are somewhat if not entirely affected by the physiology of our body, and the enviorment were raised in.
Please to be taking the note of = It wasn't me who raised the dreaded word "Christians" in the thread
ok littleCJelkton :wah:
I guess it was inevitable as any person at least a bit extreme in their devotion to faith will bring religion in to the mix, as one of the main things this thread is about is making choices and a person's faith is a big part of the enviorment that affects those choices. That is what I brought up this issue for, as it is a very confusing and highly debatable topic which envokes intense emotions, and it has brought up some very interesting points which is why again is why I brought it to this forum from FB. As since I have been here the members have been able to enlighten me on subjects in what is usually a cordial manner. Since I have started the thread and read the post, and doing my own research I have a better understanding on how sexuality (hetero, Homo, and bi) are not just a product of choice, but a combination of choice, differences in personal harmone levels, and the enviroment in which a individual is raised, but I still see a individuals choice being the main thing in determining sexuality as most all our choices are somewhat if not entirely affected by the physiology of our body, and the enviorment were raised in.
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recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
binbag;1340105 wrote: Whoa there recovering conservative, I’m describing personal observations, not, something that was “cooked upâ€
I'm just showing the precedent for where the practice of blaming the mother originated.
I did not apportion “blame†to the lad.
â€Abuseâ€? I didn’t mention abuse.
Did I even hint, at anything regarding a requirement or an obligation?
Overall, you’ve made assumptions and posted your thoughts in as my thoughts.
Naughty naughty. Go and stand in the naughty corner.
Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal, backpedal!
I'm not saying you are deliberately trying to upset people and cause anguish (as some others are doing), but when I read the following statement, it appeared clear to me that your example of the dominant mother was the cause for the son being effeminate. Until there was some real understanding of physical factors such as genes and hormones, psychological theories from people like Sigmund Freud considered the mind to be a blank slate, and every mental aberation was caused by some kind of psychological trauma with an external cause (almost always the mother).
however, I also believe parents can have an effect on the way their child/ children grow up. I’m thinking of one particular family where the mother is very dominant, has influence over the father and reared her son in an unbelievably effeminate manner.
The lad is grown up now, carries himself effeminately in the extreme, and prefers his own sex for company. Although he was a likeable, approachable good looking young child he now looks rather debauched and sort of greasy in appearance. People tend to shy away from him. (and the mother and father incidentally)
Goodness knows what else happened in the privacy of their home to influence the lad.
It has been learned that gender non-conformity is an early sign that a child may become gay later in life. It is caused primarily by physical factors, not how the child is raised -- in this example, if the boy had different hormone levels or a different development of the brain, he would not have been considered effeminate, and grown up to be a typical heterosexual.
From the brief description, this boy sounds like a tragic case! And if his parents have anything to be blamed for, it is that they may not have accepted him the way he is, and let it be known to him that his being "different" made him lesser in their eyes. Likely, they didn't know any better, and the company they keep was even less accepting of a boy who is considered effeminate than they were! There is no reason why a young man who is judged as effeminate, or on the flipside - a young woman who is butch, or more masculine than is considered acceptable by many, should feel rejected and not valued for their good qualities and what they have to offer the world. Just how much needless pain and suffering has been caused for this gay minority of the population over the eons is just incalculable!
There is not a thing wrong with having a clean and healthy sexual desire (in marriage). Healthy sex does not interfere with one’s spirituality.
Well, the early Christians, such as St. Paul, or the Apostle Paul seemed to have a jaundiced view about sex, and didn't consider any sex clean and healthy. The best he could say in 1 Corinthians was that it was better to be celibate, but marriage was better than burning in passion for those who couldn't manage it.
Please to be taking the note of = It wasn't me who raised the dreaded word "Christians" in the thread
ok littleCJelkton :wah:
I was probably the one who brought it up because there are no secular arguments left against gay marriage or laws persecuting homosexuals. Just like the opposition to teaching evolution, it's one more issue where opponents are motivated by religious literalism.
I'm just showing the precedent for where the practice of blaming the mother originated.
I did not apportion “blame†to the lad.
â€Abuseâ€? I didn’t mention abuse.
Did I even hint, at anything regarding a requirement or an obligation?
Overall, you’ve made assumptions and posted your thoughts in as my thoughts.
Naughty naughty. Go and stand in the naughty corner.
Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal, backpedal!
I'm not saying you are deliberately trying to upset people and cause anguish (as some others are doing), but when I read the following statement, it appeared clear to me that your example of the dominant mother was the cause for the son being effeminate. Until there was some real understanding of physical factors such as genes and hormones, psychological theories from people like Sigmund Freud considered the mind to be a blank slate, and every mental aberation was caused by some kind of psychological trauma with an external cause (almost always the mother).
however, I also believe parents can have an effect on the way their child/ children grow up. I’m thinking of one particular family where the mother is very dominant, has influence over the father and reared her son in an unbelievably effeminate manner.
The lad is grown up now, carries himself effeminately in the extreme, and prefers his own sex for company. Although he was a likeable, approachable good looking young child he now looks rather debauched and sort of greasy in appearance. People tend to shy away from him. (and the mother and father incidentally)
Goodness knows what else happened in the privacy of their home to influence the lad.
It has been learned that gender non-conformity is an early sign that a child may become gay later in life. It is caused primarily by physical factors, not how the child is raised -- in this example, if the boy had different hormone levels or a different development of the brain, he would not have been considered effeminate, and grown up to be a typical heterosexual.
From the brief description, this boy sounds like a tragic case! And if his parents have anything to be blamed for, it is that they may not have accepted him the way he is, and let it be known to him that his being "different" made him lesser in their eyes. Likely, they didn't know any better, and the company they keep was even less accepting of a boy who is considered effeminate than they were! There is no reason why a young man who is judged as effeminate, or on the flipside - a young woman who is butch, or more masculine than is considered acceptable by many, should feel rejected and not valued for their good qualities and what they have to offer the world. Just how much needless pain and suffering has been caused for this gay minority of the population over the eons is just incalculable!
There is not a thing wrong with having a clean and healthy sexual desire (in marriage). Healthy sex does not interfere with one’s spirituality.
Well, the early Christians, such as St. Paul, or the Apostle Paul seemed to have a jaundiced view about sex, and didn't consider any sex clean and healthy. The best he could say in 1 Corinthians was that it was better to be celibate, but marriage was better than burning in passion for those who couldn't manage it.
Please to be taking the note of = It wasn't me who raised the dreaded word "Christians" in the thread
ok littleCJelkton :wah:
I was probably the one who brought it up because there are no secular arguments left against gay marriage or laws persecuting homosexuals. Just like the opposition to teaching evolution, it's one more issue where opponents are motivated by religious literalism.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
So, tell me, Scrat, what makes people fall in love?
In short Koan, instinct and hormones. Sorry I can't give you a better answer but I am pressed for time at the moment. Do you think its something else?
In short Koan, instinct and hormones. Sorry I can't give you a better answer but I am pressed for time at the moment. Do you think its something else?
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Homosexuality, Bisexuality, Pansexuality, and Asexuality are both results of nature and nurture. It's not necessarily a "choice". No one wakes up in the morning and says, "Y'know what? I'm deciding to be gay today." Really, it's about that person's body chemistry. No two bodies have the same chemistry and wiring. Like fingerprints. Also, when a person has been subjected to abuse, sexual or otherwise, it has a definite impact on a person's sexual choice. In early childhood, the Phallic stage begins at the ages of 3-6 years old. This is where the child's sexuality begins to form. This doesn't mean the child starts thinking of sex, but really what the child's brain finds pleasing. The only "choice" in sexuality of ALL kinds is the choice to be open, proud, and comfortable with one's sexuality. The rest of the world has the "choice" to either accept or reject that person for their sexuality, which for many bigots results in cruelty, oppression, ignorance, and violence.
The world will be a better place when it is understood that sexuality can not be controlled, and that is better to accept what can not not be changed or controlled.
The world will be a better place when it is understood that sexuality can not be controlled, and that is better to accept what can not not be changed or controlled.
Is Being Homosexual a choice
Well said, azrael.
Welcome to FG :-6
Welcome to FG :-6
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is Being Homosexual a choice
recovering conservative;1340161 wrote: I'm just showing the precedent for where the practice of blaming the mother originated.
Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal, backpedal!
I'm not saying you are deliberately trying to upset people and cause anguish (as some others are doing), but when I read the following statement, it appeared clear to me that your example of the dominant mother was the cause for the son being effeminate. Until there was some real understanding of physical factors such as genes and hormones, psychological theories from people like Sigmund Freud considered the mind to be a blank slate, and every mental aberation was caused by some kind of psychological trauma with an external cause (almost always the mother).
It has been learned that gender non-conformity is an early sign that a child may become gay later in life. It is caused primarily by physical factors, not how the child is raised -- in this example, if the boy had different hormone levels or a different development of the brain, he would not have been considered effeminate, and grown up to be a typical heterosexual.
From the brief description, this boy sounds like a tragic case! And if his parents have anything to be blamed for, it is that they may not have accepted him the way he is, and let it be known to him that his being "different" made him lesser in their eyes. Likely, they didn't know any better, and the company they keep was even less accepting of a boy who is considered effeminate than they were! There is no reason why a young man who is judged as effeminate, or on the flipside - a young woman who is butch, or more masculine than is considered acceptable by many, should feel rejected and not valued for their good qualities and what they have to offer the world. Just how much needless pain and suffering has been caused for this gay minority of the population over the eons is just incalculable!
Well, the early Christians, such as St. Paul, or the Apostle Paul seemed to have a jaundiced view about sex, and didn't consider any sex clean and healthy. The best he could say in 1 Corinthians was that it was better to be celibate, but marriage was better than burning in passion for those who couldn't manage it.
I was probably the one who brought it up because there are no secular arguments left against gay marriage or laws persecuting homosexuals. Just like the opposition to teaching evolution, it's one more issue where opponents are motivated by religious literalism.
Dont forget it may be one of the many proofs of god!
Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal, backpedal!
I'm not saying you are deliberately trying to upset people and cause anguish (as some others are doing), but when I read the following statement, it appeared clear to me that your example of the dominant mother was the cause for the son being effeminate. Until there was some real understanding of physical factors such as genes and hormones, psychological theories from people like Sigmund Freud considered the mind to be a blank slate, and every mental aberation was caused by some kind of psychological trauma with an external cause (almost always the mother).
It has been learned that gender non-conformity is an early sign that a child may become gay later in life. It is caused primarily by physical factors, not how the child is raised -- in this example, if the boy had different hormone levels or a different development of the brain, he would not have been considered effeminate, and grown up to be a typical heterosexual.
From the brief description, this boy sounds like a tragic case! And if his parents have anything to be blamed for, it is that they may not have accepted him the way he is, and let it be known to him that his being "different" made him lesser in their eyes. Likely, they didn't know any better, and the company they keep was even less accepting of a boy who is considered effeminate than they were! There is no reason why a young man who is judged as effeminate, or on the flipside - a young woman who is butch, or more masculine than is considered acceptable by many, should feel rejected and not valued for their good qualities and what they have to offer the world. Just how much needless pain and suffering has been caused for this gay minority of the population over the eons is just incalculable!
Well, the early Christians, such as St. Paul, or the Apostle Paul seemed to have a jaundiced view about sex, and didn't consider any sex clean and healthy. The best he could say in 1 Corinthians was that it was better to be celibate, but marriage was better than burning in passion for those who couldn't manage it.
I was probably the one who brought it up because there are no secular arguments left against gay marriage or laws persecuting homosexuals. Just like the opposition to teaching evolution, it's one more issue where opponents are motivated by religious literalism.
Dont forget it may be one of the many proofs of god!