Divorce

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:13 pm

Should it be harder to get a divorce or harder to get a marriage licence?

Many people,myself included, get married because of pregnancy then end up with problems because the marriage was not strong. Should they stay together for the kids? Should they have gotten married because of the kids?

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:42 am

Not sure about which should be harder.

My parents have just divorced this year after 32 years of marriage, they got married after the traditional manner, I was born 5 years later.

Looking back I'm not sure what would've been worse. For the past 15 years I have been very much aware of their relationship problems, yet it's still hit me hard that they have finally divorced. There wasn't even a seperation, they have both been living in the same house until recently due to selling it.

If they had divorced while I was a child at least I wouldn't have had to grow up in a battle zone, even though I would still be feeling torn between them.

I really don't think there is an answer where children are involved, it's just more people to get hurt.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:29 am

With today's divorce rate, it definately should be harder to get married than to get divorced.

I believe in this day and age, pregnancy is not a reason to marry. The child is better off growing up with their parents separated, than growing up in a battle ground. I had a friend whose parents obviously and openly hated each other. The kids all said they wish they had divorced instead of having to listen to the constant arguements.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:27 am

I had the child's experience in mind when I started this and so far it is confirmed. I think that the children's needs are often ill served when two people make themselves miserable by staying together. As long as the attempt to love each other is there, the children may benefit but my ex and I are much more supportive of each other now that we live apart. I think the child in divorce wonders if the parents can stop loving them if they stopped loving each other, but if they stay together, the child grows up not knowing what love is. (Like I've ever figured that out)

I haven't met anyone who has successfully stayed together "for the kids".

How could marriage be made more difficult to obtain? What would be a good guidebook for people to know if they are ready to be married?

KlatunIckto,

Write me a poem about why I should tell you. :yh_tong2

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:48 am

well.. staying together for the kids sake just makes no sense. Children are much mor observant than adults give the credit for. In my case, I have always reinforced that my daugher had nothing whatsoever to do with her Mom and I splitting up. I tried to explain once she got older that sometimes we make big mistakes growing up.. and that we have to pay for those mistakes. As far as a pre-marriage course or manual or whatever to lower the divorce rate.. I don't know if that is a realistic goal. Each situation is different and trying to correct or cure all of them would be near impossible..

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:22 pm

My father thinks that the only reason my mother married him was to have me, he has blamed me (and told me to my face) for being the cause of their failed marriage.

I still love him though, what ever he throws at me I just throw back at him, it's the main problem he has with me... Mum always took it, until I became a teenager and wouldn't. So I guess he sees it that she learnt off me to be a disobedient wife.

Anyone in their right mind could see they just should never have married in the first place.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:17 pm

I'm sure this is an old one, but it won't leave my head.

Have you seen the Divorcee Barbie? She comes with half of all Ken's stuff.

I'm the nice Barbie, I guess. I gave him half of all my stuff. Maybe the Stupid Barbie...?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:38 am

koan wrote: Have you seen the Divorcee Barbie? She comes with half of all Ken's stuff.

Why is a woman like a typhoon?

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:43 am

If I tell all about messages under this topic to my wife and other family members they will not believe me.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:02 am

Bill Sikes wrote: Why is a woman like a typhoon?

Why? :-3

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:10 am

Sikes> Why is a woman like a typhoon?

Peg wrote: Why?

Because she's warm and wet when she comes, and when she leaves she

takes half the house and the car with her.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:54 am

It gets worse, Suresh :-6

One cause of divorce also seems to be that people try to become someone they are not in order to cause the other person to love them. To get a "good catch"? Then, when the false self becomes too difficult to maintain, the illusion is shattered and the marriage becomes a big lie. Sometimes the person only maitains the lie when they are around their spouse then releases their real persona after they leave the house. I've recently had someone admit to me that it had been very difficult for him to act differently around me for longer than a month. Why bother?

Some people do marry for money. Then when they can't take living with the person they try to get as much money out of the divorce as they can. I've actually met a woman with four exs who all paid her support simultaneously and she gave women advice on how to accomplish this themselves!!!!!!

I think there should be a book called "Should we get married?" that has nonparanoid suggestions like "Get to know your partner for a few years first. Spend time with your partner in varied settings. Talk to your partner about more than what they want for dinner..."

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:14 pm

Koan wrote: One cause of divorce also seems to be that people try to become someone they are not in order to cause the other person to love them. To get a "good catch"? Then, when the false self becomes too difficult to maintain, the illusion is shattered and the marriage becomes a big lie.You don't even need to be married to have this happen.

I still live with my ex (for convenience only) and he is not the person I met or got to know, he's someone totally different, not a person that I don't like, but he is not the type of person I would spend the rest of my life with.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:15 am

Mars, I knew a couple who committed to their marriage one year at a time. Each anniversary they would toast each other and then ask if they wanted another year together. They've been together a long time now. Maybe there's something to "bite-sized" commitment.

My ex and I went through pre-marital counseling. Since he's my ex, it obviously wasn't the answer, either. At least not for us.

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:41 am

Wiccans, in their religion, only marry for 7 years at a time. A person's life changes so drastically every seven years that they do not feel you can reasonably know if your partner will still be a good mate after 7 years. (It coincides with the Saturn cylce astrologically) I believe many Wiccans continue renewing their vows.

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:00 am

How about staying to gether due to the vow to not just the other person but to God. I pray that I never get divorced. If I do it will be my wife leaving me because I take the marrage vow more serious then she does.

I love her but perhaps it was a mistake to marry someone who's parents are divorced. Been married for just over a year and she has already threatoned to divorce me on a few occasions.

Just tonight I was goofing around and she told me if I wanted to stay married I should not act like a child.

She wanted to marry me after we were dating for 4 months and I have believed for a long time that a couple should get to know each other for a year before marrying. So I made her wait a year.

Marrage is a life time commitment and people who are not willing to do this should not marry.

My wife's unethics of threating divorce is stressfull and manipulative and just plane abusive.

Divorce is far more accepted then it shoud be.

As for the 7 year wicka thing. That is not marriage but rather serial megonomy if you are even that selective.

LOL on "Why is a woman like a typhoon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peg

Why?

Because she's warm and wet when she comes, and when she leaves she

takes half the house and the car with her. "

I liked that one so much I reposted it on http://com1.runboard.com/bthejokesforum ... njokes.t16

Lotto

http://www.flalottomagic.net/cgi-local/ ... elcome-344

Magic

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:50 am

Perhaps it was a mistake to marry a woman who's parents are divorced? My parents were married 40+ years when my dad died. Each of there 4 children have been divorced once. I think a parent's marriage/divorce has no bearing on their child's marriage.

As for knowing the person a year, My spouse and I have been married 18 years in Dec. and knew each other 6 months, 5 of which was spent living together. Maybe we are an exception to the rule. Really no way to know.

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:16 am

We went the a marriage counselor and that ended up when he agreed with me on a few of my issues.

"My parents were married 40+ years when my dad died. Each of there 4 children have been divorced once. I think a parent's marriage/divorce has no bearing on their child's marriage."

Well in my case my wife is far to accepting of divorce. I love her and can't imagine my life with out her. Certaionly people who have divorce in the family are more accepting of it.

So divorce is like a cancer. The more there is the more accepted divorce is. The more accepted it is the more . . . .'

Divorce should be a last solution to a problem. Personally I would rather die then get divorced. It would be an unequivical failure for me.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:54 am

Wow.

Lottomagic, that is a horrible story. I hope things work out for you...but it sounds like you both have different ideas about what that might mean. You seem to think the marriage vow requires some martyrdom on your behalf. Remember Jesus already died for our sins. It's suppose to mean you don't have to, yes?

On a lighter note, I heard a great joke once.

Woman is getting married. Very nervous. Keeps going over what she has to do at the ceremony "Walk down the aisle, make it to the altar without tripping and stand next to him" and reduces it to a kind of mantra. "Aisle. Altar. Him." "Aisle. Altar. Him." "Aisle. Alter. Him." "I'll. Alter. Him."

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:48 am

Thanks for he joke:) I'll re-epost it

"Woman is getting married. Very nervous. Keeps going over what she has to do at the ceremony "Walk down the aisle, make it to the altar without tripping and stand next to him" and reduces it to a kind of mantra. "Aisle. Altar. Him." "Aisle. Altar. Him." "Aisle. Alter. Him." "I'll. Alter. Him.""

I do love my wife. Her first husband killed himself and I knew going in there would be some trama with that. She is not all bad. Just a little mental at times.

__________________

Lotto

http://www.flalottomagic.net/cgi-lo...cgi?welcome-344

Magic

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:40 am

LottomagicZ4941 wrote:

I do love my wife. Her first husband killed himself and I knew going in there would be some trama with that. She is not all bad. Just a little mental at times.

Jeeeeezzzz!

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:22 pm

Hi Marsue and welcome to the garden. :-6

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:08 am

I don't believe in Divorce, what were you thinking when you took the vows? People start things like marriage and don't complete it. There are times things do not work out, agree...deal with it, there could be worst things, like a terminal illness.

life isn't a bed of roses all the time, did you know that?

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:31 pm

Aren't you glad I'm here for you to abuse? You are an abusive person, i have men here that would have (much) fun with you...there is no plant in the garden to identify you as, so that means, you will simply remain an earthworm? hahahahaha :wah: i don't think suitable for fishing either? No eyes, slithering through the cold damp ground.... :wah: :wah:

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:24 pm

Not to worry Cindy, great minds think alike..

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:39 pm

koan wrote: Should it be harder to get a divorce or harder to get a marriage licence?

Many people,myself included, get married because of pregnancy then end up with problems because the marriage was not strong. Should they stay together for the kids? Should they have gotten married because of the kids?

Nothing good comes of sticking together for the sake of the kids, if you divorce you both still "co-parent" hopefully.

Children learn by example. So by splitting you let children know, happiness is important for everyone.

Make getting married tougher....

I live in Canada's divorce Capital. In this city 51% of all marriages end in divorce here. Not a very positive picture is it.

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:45 pm

Jack Sprat wrote: Cindy,

My wife and I are about to renew our 5-year agreement (we actually have a legal marriage) for the 9th time. Some marriages are successful.

Congrats on that. Always nice to hear of a "many year" marriage.

Cheers to you both.

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:31 am

Jack Sprat wrote: To make matters worse, we love each other more now then when we renewed our vows five years ago. And at that time we were more in love then five years prior, etc.

That is just awesome

Have you kids?

So much in todays society can cause divorce, and some times it is a matter of greed. We have to admit we went through a terrible "all about me" phase in about the 80's and we started to believe everything we did was for the betterment of ourselves, and our way or now way attitudes ruled and that really pushed divorce over the top.

I believe we took the wrong attitude towards marriage by thinking "if I get into a marriage and find I can't take it I can always get a divorce" Yeah so what happened to "for better or worse" What happened to working on marriage and making it work, solving your troubles instead of walking away from them? So many people find it much easier to waltz than stay and that is a pity. But on the flip side some marriages are not worth saving for obvious reasons.

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:59 pm

Very good lines to live by...

in saying that, tell me, would you give your partner a second chance after you caught them cheating? How strong should a relationship be and how much should each other endure??

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:58 pm

KlatunIckto wrote: many people talk of traditional whenever they speak of marriage yet what is traditional marriage?

i think marriage as we are hoodwinked into believing it should be should be outlawed,or at the least outlaw divorce. :guitarist
This is an interesting point. Would you please talk more about it?

Pearl Harbor · Post by **Pearl Harbor** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:10 pm

koan wrote: Should it be harder to get a divorce or harder to get a marriage licence?

Many people,myself included, get married because of pregnancy then end up with problems because the marriage was not strong. Should they stay together for the kids? Should they have gotten married because of the kids?

I think it should be harder to get married and it should be harder to get divorced.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:25 pm

I'm sorry, KlatunIckto, I didn't understand that at all.

I know I'm terrified of marriage now. I know I don't want to try it again, at least not at this point. But that's me.

I am still astounded by the post about the wife of one of our members. Her first husband committed suicide? I can't imagine how horrible that must've been for her, or the courage it would've taken her to try marriage again.

And I'm really mad about the first husband's selfishness, which is hardly fair since I know nothing about the man.

So we talk about whether we'd do it again. Sometimes we talk about what we've learned the first time around. But how often do we talk about what our perception of marriage is, or what we expect, or how we will attain that?

On a side rant, I positively despise romance novels. we can add the majority of love story movies to that as well. I think it paints a completely unrealistic picture about people and relationships. If we produce these types of "art" does it mean that's what we're all looking for? The Happy Ending?

That's why I am intrigued by KlatunIckto's post.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:30 pm

I too despise romance novels. I think they give people, especially young girls the wrong impression of what love and romance are about. Basically they are all the same. Couple meets, they hate each other, they fall in love but won't admit. Then they live happily ever after.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:31 pm

Klatunickto, I think you missed a few commas on the second remark. Had to read it twice to figure it out. Please don't outlaw divorce or I would be living in hell. I like the Wiccan approach to marriage where you can only commit for seven years at a time, then your Saturn cycle changes and who knows what will happen.

What is traditional marriage? I don't think mine was traditional. We saw it as a commitment to support each other emotionally and physically but forgot about the spiritually and somehow overlooked the love part. I think that, traditionally, it is meant to be a grounding ceremony to bring to the Earthly plane a representation of the union two people feel on a higher plane. By grounding it, the ceremony strengthens the intentions and union on the physical level. On the other hand, traditionally, it has probably just been used as a way to satisfy people's insecurity about whether the other person really "loves" them or not.