Rage Syndrome

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symondneil
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Rage Syndrome

Post by symondneil »

I know a friend through a forum, they bought a mixed cocker spaniel puppy, love him and raise him as their own kid. Now the dog just turned one year old, and started to show rage syndrome, attacking the owner for no reason. The bite was quite bad (they showed me the injury picture)...and this is not the first time attack.The young couple was thinking of giving up the dog for adoption.

I personally think it is not easy to find a good home for him, as the adopter has to be very experienced in handling this kind of rage syndrome dog. But to euthanize the dog also very cruel too...any other suggestion?
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AussiePam
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Rage Syndrome

Post by AussiePam »

symondneil;1287577 wrote: I know a friend through a forum, they bought a mixed cocker spaniel puppy, love him and raise him as their own kid. Now the dog just turned one year old, and started to show rage syndrome, attacking the owner for no reason. The bite was quite bad (they showed me the injury picture)...and this is not the first time attack.The young couple was thinking of giving up the dog for adoption.

I personally think it is not easy to find a good home for him, as the adopter has to be very experienced in handling this kind of rage syndrome dog. But to euthanize the dog also very cruel too...any other suggestion?


They raised a dog as their own child!!!??? No wonder the poor dog showed rage. A dog is a dog. Giving a dog up for adoption??!!! .. You're kidding us all, aren't you? Maybe they should let the doggie take them walkies, then they'll all stay fit and not gain weight, and the doggie might get to meet other doggies and not get so desperate.

Didn't we have someone here before who wanted to euthanase everything, and had a particular penchant for practising his strangeness on dogs????

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spot
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Rage Syndrome

Post by spot »

What sense of the word cruel covers euthanasing dogs?
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Snowfire
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Rage Syndrome

Post by Snowfire »

I doubt a dog showing signs of that sort of behaviour could be rehoused. Certainly essential it never comes into contact with children before it is assessed.

The decision to euthanise the dog is certainly not cruel and may be essential and the best course of action for all.

I agree with AP. You cannot treat dogs like children. Thats asking for trouble
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Oscar Namechange
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Rage Syndrome

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Snowfire;1287652 wrote: I doubt a dog showing signs of that sort of behaviour could be rehoused. Certainly essential it never comes into contact with children before it is assessed.

The decision to euthanise the dog is certainly not cruel and may be essential and the best course of action for all.

I agree with AP. You cannot treat dogs like children. Thats asking for trouble


Nonsense.

Rescue homes are bursting at the gills with unfortunate mutts who have been raised by Idiots and then they wonder why It's got a behavioural problem a year later. The only reason any dog displays behavioural problems Is down to the way 'man' has raided him. People take a puppy or dog and then deny It the freedom to be what he Is... A Dog.

Firstly, this dog is not beyond help. This will sound concieted on my part but I bet that If I took that dog, the problem would be cured within 3 weeks, There are many good organisations In every Country that could re-train this dog as he Is still young. Trying to train Puppies at a very early age Is often futile as they just get confused. One year old Is the Ideal time to begin serious training of a puppy.

I do speak from experience... I have had many many a rescue dog and some big buggers at that... One ate my husbands shed. All of them had varying behavioural problems. The key is the order of Priority in a dogs life. Exercise... Food... Love. In that strict order.

I have three dogs and from my experiece I know one vital key to keeping them balanced Is observing their pack order, allowing them to be Dogs as well as part of the family. Each day they are set to 'Work' although they are are not working dogs. All dogs need to work and this Includes the simplist of terms such as 'Seek and Find' exercises while out walking. Any Dog that has this kind of stimulation In their life Is ahealthy balanced dog who will be Obedient and respect the pack leader that is YOU in the house.

To be honest, Mulder my male Is extremely territorial and protective. This Is not a bad thing as some think If the dog knows the limits within when he can exercise this Protectiveness and Territory. For example, my male knows that any jealousy and Territorial behaviour In the house Is Un-acceptable when it exceeds normal pack leader behaviour, however, one of his 'Jobs' and 'Work' Is to go Into the garden when the Persian Cats go outside ready to kick up a racket should anyone try coming through the gate for them. Should I be alone out walking and approached by a stranger In the Countryside, he wil barr his teeth. For this he Is praised yet should he ever do the same Inside the house with a Visitor, he knows it Is not acceptable.
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gmc
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Rage Syndrome

Post by gmc »

spaniels are one of the dogs that have problems caused by the skull being too small for it's brain. The rage attacks, in other words, may not be due to the dogs nature but rather a congenital problem in which case it is not something that proper handling will sort. Euthanasia may be your only option especially if the dog is in constant pain.

I don't know where you are but in the UK it has become a big issue with the rspca withdrawing from supporting crufts and the bbc no longer show it due to public concern about the matter.

BBC NEWS | UK | Pedigree dogs plagued by problems

BBC NEWS | UK | How dog breeds have changed

It's not just insanity in spaniels, boxers gave heart problems, alsatians have hip problems and can't walk properly, dalmatians are prone to deafness and skin problems some breeds can't give birth naturally any more. the list goes on and on.
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Snowfire
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Rage Syndrome

Post by Snowfire »

oscar;1287661 wrote: Nonsense.




Which part of what I posted is nonsense? Keeping it away from children untill assessed ? Not treating dogs like children ? That a rehousing may be doubtful ? I congratulate you on being able to rehouse a dog from a shelter. The dogs that reach the stage where they can be rehoused will have had that assessment so their chances of having a dog with any sense of rage syndrome is almost nil.

I stand by my opinion that euthenasia may be the only choice
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gmc
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Post by gmc »

posted by oscar

One ate my husbands shed. :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

You win Mine only managed a pair of slippers and part of a coffee table.
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Oscar Namechange
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Rage Syndrome

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Snowfire;1287672 wrote: Which part of what I posted is nonsense? Keeping it away from children untill assessed ? Not treating dogs like children ? That a rehousing may be doubtful ? I congratulate you on being able to rehouse a dog from a shelter. The dogs that reach the stage where they can be rehoused will have had that assessment so their chances of having a dog with any sense of rage syndrome is almost nil.

I stand by my opinion that euthenasia may be the only choice The part where you agree Euthenasia to be the answer. gmc raised a good point that the dog may be In pain however, I believe If the dog was In pain, there would be tother obvious signs such as being subdued and hanging the tail between the legs.

Our largest rescue Organisation here in the UK next to the RSPCA is 'Dogs Trust' who were formally know as 'The National canine defence League'. If you go on the Dogs Trust website, you will see they have 40 re-homing centres around the country and they state that they never destroy a healthy dog however difficult or vicious. True, some are so bad they can never be re-homed but the majority are after re-habilitation. Why would any Charity never destroy a dog that bites If there was no hope for them to be trained out of It? Near me Is Bath Cats and Dogs home, again, Policy Is to never destroy a healthy dog. I have collected for them and believe me, there are some real problem dogs In there.

Usually It Is not the case that the dog Is not suitable for the family, It Is they who are not fit to have a dog.

We live In a throw-away society that Includes animals. Get a cute puppy, screw It's head up and then when It doesn't behave the way you want It to, euthanise It.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
koan
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Rage Syndrome

Post by koan »

Looking it up, "rage syndrome" is a very specific problem which is fairly rare but does happen. If that is, indeed, what is wrong with the dog then putting it down is the only reasonable action.

I really detest the insistence that all vicious dogs come from idiot owners that don't know how to treat pets. That's pure nonsense. If these dog apologists are right than no one should be allowed to get a pet without getting an owners license first. These are not supposed to be wild animals that require very specific handling. If the average person can't work out how to raise a dog properly they should be taken off the roster as a household pet. Until then, stop blaming all owners for dogs with attitude problems. Some pets are just born bastards. Dog lovers who disagree can bite me... since that's a behaviour they feel is justified.
Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

Aggressiveness in animals such as dogs is hormonal from what I understand click here for an explanation. At certain ages a hormone naturally kicks in on certain type of animals that make them vicious.

As a consequence of "selective breeding" in order to breed aggressiveness out of dogs and such animals they have developed floopy ears and curly tails. The curlier the tail the more domesticated the animal seems to be. Spots on dogs come from where the hormone has migrated to under the skin causing discoloration.

Its worth noting that the only animal in the wild with floppy ears is the elephant.
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koan
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Rage Syndrome

Post by koan »

Ahso!;1287788 wrote: Aggressiveness in animals such as dogs is hormonal from what I understand click here for an explanation. At certain ages a hormone naturally kicks in on certain type of animals that make them vicious.

...


This site has a reasonably extensive list of things that can cause canine aggression and are not related to the way the owner treated them:

Medical and Health Causes of Dog Aggression
gmc
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Post by gmc »

posted by oscar

gmc raised a good point that the dog may be In pain however, I believe If the dog was In pain, there would be tother obvious signs such as being subdued and hanging the tail between the legs.


Nature versus nurture is an old argument but with the spaniels it insanity brought on by too much inbreeding. The animal becomes aggressive for no reason and then stops the rage is a form of fit where the brain is misfiring. even a criss breed can still have the problem.

Have a look at that link I posted the bastards just don't accept there is a problem and think it acceptable to destroy healthy animals because they don't look "right"
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1287788 wrote: Aggressiveness in animals such as dogs is hormonal from what I understand click here for an explanation. At certain ages a hormone naturally kicks in on certain type of animals that make them vicious.

As a consequence of "selective breeding" in order to breed aggressiveness out of dogs and such animals they have developed floopy ears and curly tails. The curlier the tail the more domesticated the animal seems to be. Spots on dogs come from where the hormone has migrated to under the skin causing discoloration.

Its worth noting that the only animal in the wild with floppy ears is the elephant.
Out of Interest... How many rescue dogs have you taken on in your life-time? Only I recalled mine last night and since I was 16 years old, I have had 22. Out of that 22. 16 were pure breeds, the rest mutts. ALL had behavioural problems of some sort. The very first rescue dog I had was a pure Bred Beagle that was dumped because she bit her owners. She NEVER bit me and I had her for 10 years before she died. Shortly after I got her, the vet found her to be totally deaf, possibly an explanation as to why she bit prior. I even taught her sign language to communicate and observed her deafness at all times such as never coming up behind her suddenly. The point Is, any dog that bites, doe's so for a reason and It's finding that reason.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

[QUOTE=koan;1287782] These are not supposed to be wild animals that require very specific handling. QUOTE]

Who says they are not suppossed to be wild animals??? MAN.. that's who... the biggest virus on this planet. Man woke up one day and decided that It would be rather cute to keep dogs inside the house and buy his cute little coats.

Dogs have to adapt to man If they are to live with man as part of a family but basically all breeds descend from wolves In the wild and a good Dog Owner should well remember that. You can not wipe out eons of years of the wild genetics In a dog when It suits. A perfect harmony with your dog Is the ability to accept his traits as well as him accept yours.

I have had this conversation before with some friends of mine who come from Middle Eastern Countries where dogs do not come Into the house. Apparently, Dogs biting their owners Is less frequent In the ME. It Is because we have our dogs In our houses and expect them to totally conform to human ways that many of the problems occur.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
koan
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Post by koan »

oh, I see

it's because we expect them to be friendly loving house pets :rolleyes:

hint: that's how they are advertised... by dog breeders who later blame the humans or pet stores that are licensed to sell house pets.

I can see how this couple over-loving their dog would make your head explode. :thinking:
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

koan;1287992 wrote: oh, I see

it's because we expect them to be friendly loving house pets :rolleyes:

hint: that's how they are advertised... by dog breeders who later blame the humans or pet stores that are licensed to sell house pets.

I can see how this couple over-loving their dog would make your head explode. :thinking:
Have you ever heard the expression 'Killed By Kindness'? Well, this Is a perfect example.

All I am saying Is that dog owners must meet the dog half way. It's sad but I don't see a future for this dog unless It is removed from It's owners. Very often dogs In this situation can be re-homed and the rage stops. The reason the dog Is biting them Is because they have allowed him to think that he Is pack leader over his owner=and he Is the one In control and not the owner. In a new home, this can be reversed.

Sorry Koan but some people do kill their dogs with kindness. What will they do when this one at the age of only a year Is euthanised? Go out and get another cute puppy and screw His head up also?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
gmc
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Post by gmc »

oscar;1288053 wrote: Have you ever heard the expression 'Killed By Kindness'? Well, this Is a perfect example.

All I am saying Is that dog owners must meet the dog half way. It's sad but I don't see a future for this dog unless It is removed from It's owners. Very often dogs In this situation can be re-homed and the rage stops. The reason the dog Is biting them Is because they have allowed him to think that he Is pack leader over his owner=and he Is the one In control and not the owner. In a new home, this can be reversed.

Sorry Koan but some people do kill their dogs with kindness. What will they do when this one at the age of only a year Is euthanised? Go out and get another cute puppy and screw His head up also?


What they should do is take the dog to a dog trainer with both of them going. There is an element of truth in what you say-I know people with pups who assume play biting means the dog is aggressive and overreact actually making a problem where here wasn't one. You also see people that don't let pups off a lead because it won't come back and when they do finally let it off and it comes back they punish it for not coming soon enough and think the dog should understand their reasoning, or assume a pup jumping on another dog is attacking it rather than playing and make it aggressive by constantly punishing it when another dog approaches. It's blindingly obvious what they're doing wrong but some people just don't see it.

You might be right and it's just lack of training. But there are dogs, and spaniels happen to be one of them, that are the victim of too much inbreeding and are effectively insane and unpredictable which makes them dangerous-maybe not so much to adults but to children, even a spaniel can cause a lot of damage to a child.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

gmc;1288062 wrote: What they should do is take the dog to a dog trainer with both of them going. There is an element of truth in what you say-I know people with pups who assume play biting means the dog is aggressive and overreact actually making a problem where here wasn't one. You also see people that don't let pups off a lead because it won't come back and when they do finally let it off and it comes back they punish it for not coming soon enough and think the dog should understand their reasoning, or assume a pup jumping on another dog is attacking it rather than playing and make it aggressive by constantly punishing it when another dog approaches. It's blindingly obvious what they're doing wrong but some people just don't see it.

You might be right and it's just lack of training. But there are dogs, and spaniels happen to be one of them, that are the victim of too much inbreeding and are effectively insane and unpredictable which makes them dangerous-maybe not so much to adults but to children, even a spaniel can cause a lot of damage to a child.
Now, here's a first... gmc agree's with Oscar and Oscar agree's with gmc. :thinking:

Your right about all the things you stated. Some people just don't get It with training pups.

Going back to what I said about accepting the dogs traits and their genetics, my male Is the perfect example. He Came from a Sire and I was warned that his Offspring had produced aggressive dogs In the past. Indeed, the traits are there In Mulder but as I said before, he knows when this Is acceptable and Un-acceptable. As an example, when the young children come out of school next door, he Is waiting by the gate because he knows they will run over and make a fuss of him. To them, he's a pussycat. However, at night, when the lane Is In darkness and an unfamiliar sound Is heard, we 'Tell Him' to 'Go See' and he will tear out of the door all guns blazing to the fence and gate letting who ever Is out there know that he Is not bluffing. For that he Is praised. It will sound concieted but It Is down to the training on my part. He is a Parson Russell Terrier, bred for hunting. We observe those traits and Instints and although we don't like It, we accept that he will chase and kill a Rabbit while In the Countryside. We even let him carry his Quarry home. To chastise him would be to punish him for some-thing that Is pure Instinct In him.

All the rescue dogs I have had, I have researched the breed on getting them, finding out what they descend from. what their traits are and observing them. If owners do this, they will have a happy balanced Dog. It is when owners try to go against their Instincts that problems will occur. A classic example was a woman ( Since Died) who had a Welsh Border Collie and wlaked him In my field. He was never Interested In catching balls and the like but It was hilarious to watch him trying to round up every dog In the field and herd them all together yet he probably had never been near a sheep.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
koan
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Post by koan »

A friend of the family was a dog breeder, trainer, worked at a vet clinic and now dog sits for up to 6 dogs at a time. I think we can agree that she is good with the animals.

She has two dogs of her own that both eat their own ****.

I lost all respect for the creatures. Not to say that I hate all dogs, I just think that they are unpredictably disgusting. That said, I'm sorry, I will never be convinced that all problems with dogs are the fault of the owner and I find all efforts to insist so to be patently ridiculous.
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Oscar Namechange
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

koan;1288229 wrote:

She has two dogs of her own that both eat their own ****.

.
Two rescue dogs I have had In my Lifetime ate their own poo. Both were abused by their owners. The probility Is that as a small pup they were chastised or punished for having an accident In the house so they eat It to hide the evidence. Everything a dog does Is for a reason.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon

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