Vent: Breeding for $$$

Discussions about your pets!
Ciao, Bella!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

Grrr! I hate it when people, who are NOT established breeders, want to breed pets for cash.



I am not a breeder, nor have I ever been. I am, however, a rescuer of abandoned/abused animals. I was just on the phone with a friend who yet again, is gung-ho about getting a pure-bred pet and breeding it.



This is the same woman who tried to make a go of it with a Golden Retriever, only to realize they are a large breed. She paid $300.00 for a pure-bred Goldie, no papers, and ended up giving her away, saying she couldn't control her. She didn't want to take the time to train her, and thought she could keep the dog in a crate until it was time to breed. I pitched a fit with her, and she saw the light. (As an aside, she and I are constantly removing abused dogs from her mentally ill stepdaughter, and turning them over to the SPCA.)



Now, she wants to breed teacup Poodles. I kind of lost it with her, and told her breeding for money, vice love of breed, is stinky. She was raving about teacups, how they're a new breed of Poodle, and I couldn't resist telling her the truth, that they're the result of breeding runts to runts. She can't afford to buy a papered dog, and here, there are far too many non-papered breeders, creating a major pet over-population here.



I hope I didn't hurt her feelings, but this is not an area for get rich quick schemes. I have another friend, who used to breed papered Mastiffs. I know what it takes, vet bills, extra feedings, etc. This woman can't pay all her bills monthly, so how the heck can she pay a huge emergency vet bill???



Why don't people stop and think?
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

Because these people are assh*les, that's why. You just touched my sore spot so I'm going to vent with you. I've been in rescue since 1999 and for years before that privately. I am sick to death of people who exploit animals whether it be for cash or "love of breed." We're killing them by the thousands every fricking day, there is no bloody need to make more! I've heard every dumbass excuse there is. Men are often the worst. Like neutering their dog is going to make them less of a man. I've had men say that to me! Yet they're totally willing to spay the female. I think that says something.

My favorites are the ones who claim neutrality because they "only breed AKC quality dogs" when anyone with a lick of sense knows the AKC doesn't mean squat. Or the idiots who claim it's okay for them to breed because "they find homes for all their dogs/cats." Meanwhile I work my @$$ off trying to save people's mistakes from sure death or worse. I don't get paid for what I do either. It's on my time.

You are right. Your friend is ignorant as all billy hell. Teacups are not new. They have been around at least 30 years. And unless you're one of those gougers who charge three or four grand for your papered Mastiff or applehead Siamese or whatever, there is no money to be made IF YOU DO IT PROPERLY. Like you said. With vet appointments, Rx, vitamins, excellent food and all else it takes to properly care for an expectant animal, you should be in the hole at the end. Then we have "breeding for love" which is a whole different animal.

I feel for you having to put up with such bullheaded ignorance. I'm pissed just reading your post, knowing what I'm going through, caring for nine extra dogs. I don't suffer these loons who make the problem worse. If they want to help, let them find homes for the zillions in the kill pounds first.

Bah!! I'm hot now!! :-5:-5:-5
User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

Do some research online about the problems that those tiny "breeds" have in delivering. Make sure you include information on pyrometria and any other nasty, smelly, deadly issue that breeding female dogs have.
Sandi



User avatar
nvalleyvee
Posts: 5191
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by nvalleyvee »

Our Female MUTT pup - Llanna - is 9 months old.....just went through her full adult heat........DANG - I didn't know there were so many un-neutered dogs in the neighborhood!.............I wanted her spayed at 3 months but our vet said to wait until she went through a true heat. BTS said the same thing. My Kayla was spayed at 3 months and is having all kinds of "holding her pee" problems at 13 years old because she never got a good estrogen jolt from her system - vet said this!. So now our Llanna is going to get spayed at 10 months old.........I think it will hurt her more now than at 3 months.

They just passed a law in Albuquerque--------7 miles away that all dogs have to be spayed or neutered by 3 months. You can have breeders but it costs $150.00 a year and they have to be papered - AKC.
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
User avatar
nvalleyvee
Posts: 5191
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by nvalleyvee »

LilacDragon;587377 wrote: Do some research online about the problems that those tiny "breeds" have in delivering. Make sure you include information on pyrometria and any other nasty, smelly, deadly issue that breeding female dogs have.


Just as an aside FUNNY - my neighbor has a Chiahuahua and he just wants to mate my Llanna all the time. He digs out of his yard -- poor boy barely reaches her knee joint and she won't lay down for him! HAHAHHAHA
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
koan
Posts: 16817
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:00 pm

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by koan »

I didn't realise y'all were talking about pets for the first few lines. :wah:

I had a puppy mill guy stop and get out of his car to ask me if I'd breed my minpin with his chihuahua. He thought mine was a chihuahua. Dumb ass.
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

nvalleyvee;587381 wrote: Our Female MUTT pup - Llanna - is 9 months old.....just went through her full adult heat........DANG - I didn't know there were so many un-neutered dogs in the neighborhood!.............I wanted her spayed at 3 months but our vet said to wait until she went through a true heat. BTS said the same thing. My Kayla was spayed at 3 months and is having all kinds of "holding her pee" problems at 13 years old because she never got a good estrogen jolt from her system - vet said this!. So now our Llanna is going to get spayed at 10 months old.........I think it will hurt her more now than at 3 months.

They just passed a law in Albuquerque--------7 miles away that all dogs have to be spayed or neutered by 3 months. You can have breeders but it costs $150.00 a year and they have to be papered - AKC.


That's inaccurate. No dog or cat "needs" to go through a season before they get fixed. Your vet should go back to school. I like the Albuquerque law but I'd yank the breeder fee up to about $1,500 to discourage it.
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

koan;587389 wrote: I didn't realise y'all were talking about pets for the first few lines. :wah:

I had a puppy mill guy stop and get out of his car to ask me if I'd breed my minpin with his chihuahua. He thought mine was a chihuahua. Dumb ass.


Aw geez. Selective moron. :thinking:
Ciao, Bella!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

In regards to friend's step-daughter, she's also always trying to pull the breeding for cash bit. Only Tammy's problem is she picks mutts, that may have a trace of pure-bred in them, to breed, thinking she can breed back to the pure-bred race.



I've explained to her this is impossible, but she doesn't get it. According to Tammy, (I no longer deal with her, other than to get her pets away from her), there is a genetic test that will tell if the pet is pure-bred or not. I had to educate her on that one! (I must be surrounded by idiots.) Then, she wanted to breed husky-wolf hybrids. I told her father I'd call child services on her if she did that, and he put a stop to it.



I agree about the $1,500 annual fee for breeders. There are far too many puppy mills here, and one of them was let off scot free! He had his dogs stacked one on top of each other in crates, so that urine and feces fell into the crates below, contaminating the other's food and water. All were out in the sun, no shade, and inadequate water supply. All he had to do was move them into the shade and give them water.



I'm still majorly peeved about that, and it's been two years!



I think it's time to write a letter to the editor. Been too quiet on this subject again. (Been what, a month or two?:D )



I don't know where friend will put her poodle and pups, as she's in a tiny house. I will call her today, and try to talk her out of it, again.
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

i have 3 staffordshire bull terriers 1 boy 2 girls

i do breed from them but not for the cash for the love of the breed

all 3 are KC registered

checked out all new owners before i let them go

have taken one back to be re homed after owner split from partner

they sell well but in the long run it is hard to profit from them

my dogs are like my kids
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

Charging a fee to have intact dogs is just great. Who is going to pay it? Responsible owners and ethical breeders - that is who. People who run puppymills sure aren't - I can promise you that they don't register with local law enforcement and such and many people don't even know they are in business until they are busted and charged with animal cruelty.

The ethical breeders that I know spend a TON on their dogs before they even consider breeding them. There are titles to put on them to show that they are, in fact, the best of the best and then there are health tests that need to be done - by specialists, not the local vet - to be sure that they are as healthy as possible and their offspring will be healthy too. THESE are the people that are penalized by breeding fees.

It is just like BSL - the only people who are punished are the people that follow the law.
Sandi



Ciao, Bella!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

bornbad;587447 wrote: i have 3 staffordshire bull terriers 1 boy 2 girls

i do breed from them but not for the cash for the love of the breed



all 3 are KC registered

checked out all new owners before i let them go

have taken one back to be re homed after owner split from partner



they sell well but in the long run it is hard to profit from them

my dogs are like my kids


Bornbad, you're the right type of breeder. My aunt and uncle had a horse farm, and did the same thing in regards to taking the animal back. I just wish more people would be responsible.
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

Ciao, Bella!;587478 wrote: Bornbad, you're the right type of breeder. My aunt and uncle had a horse farm, and did the same thing in regards to taking the animal back. I just wish more people would be responsible.


my dogs are not just pets they my friends

as a breed ya could not wish 4 a more loyal companion
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
Ciao, Bella!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

What does it run you to have the genetic testing and such done?
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

I maintain that as long as any dog or cat is killed in the pound or homeless, there is no such thing as a "responsible breeder." That is a total oxymoron. If you love the breed so much then get out and save the ones who are already here.
User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

RedGlitter;587519 wrote: I maintain that as long as any dog or cat is killed in the pound or homeless, there is no such thing as a "responsible breeder." That is a total oxymoron. If you love the breed so much then get out and save the ones who are already here.


While that is a great theory, it is rather flawed. Whether you are talking about it or PETA. And I never, ever mentioned responsible - when I talk about breeders, I am talking about ETHICAL breeders. And yes, there is a difference.

The fact of the matter is that the public is what it is and as such, most people want what they want and they want it now. And a good portion of them don't want someone's used cast offs.

ETHICAL breeders aren't putting dogs in shelters and all of the ones that I know not only pull dogs from shelters but donate money to rescue. The problem is backyard breeders and puppymillers.
Sandi



User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

RedGlitter;587519 wrote: I maintain that as long as any dog or cat is killed in the pound or homeless, there is no such thing as a "responsible breeder." That is a total oxymoron. If you love the breed so much then get out and save the ones who are already here.


i dont breed staffs to increase the number of dogs in pounds or shelters i breed them to improve the breed

if i could not find a good home for one of my pups i would keep them

i enjoy the breed

i personally would not get such a dog from a shelter as you dont know the history of the dog

it how they are raised that makes a well balanced pet or friend
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

LilacDragon;587527 wrote: While that is a great theory, it is rather flawed. Whether you are talking about it or PETA. And I never, ever mentioned responsible - when I talk about breeders, I am talking about ETHICAL breeders. And yes, there is a difference.

The fact of the matter is that the public is what it is and as such, most people want what they want and they want it now. And a good portion of them don't want someone's used cast offs.

ETHICAL breeders aren't putting dogs in shelters and all of the ones that I know not only pull dogs from shelters but donate money to rescue. The problem is backyard breeders and puppymillers.


Nope. I disagree. If there's a golden sitting in some pound waiting for a home or death (and bet that there is) and you just produced a itter of new ones, you are neither responsible nor ethical; you are an insensitive jerk. Someone's used castoffs?! Wow. What a hell of a value we put on life. We're euthanizing the wrong species.
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

RedGlitter;587605 wrote: Nope. I disagree. If there's a golden sitting in some pound waiting for a home or death (and bet that there is) and you just produced a itter of new ones, you are neither responsible nor ethical; you are an insensitive jerk. Someone's used castoffs?! Wow. What a hell of a value we put on life. We're euthanizing the wrong species.


red i dont agree ya are being very harsh

if there comes a time when i cant find good homes for my pups i would/will stop breeding them

under kennel club rules you can have a litter every year i dont i have planed on every 2 years

it allows ya bitches to stay in good condition

i have had rescue dogs before been a lot pf probs
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

RedGlitter;587605 wrote: Nope. I disagree. If there's a golden sitting in some pound waiting for a home or death (and bet that there is) and you just produced a itter of new ones, you are neither responsible nor ethical; you are an insensitive jerk. Someone's used castoffs?! Wow. What a hell of a value we put on life. We're euthanizing the wrong species.


Stand in a petstore some Saturday afternoon and ask someone looking at those adorable puppy mill puppies if they have been to the shelter. I can promise you that not only have they not done a single bit of research into the breed or breeds that they are looking at, but they don't want some "reject" dog that someone dumped at the pound.

Sorry but you sound like you are spouting the PETA party line. Which is really sad since PETA would like to see an end to the domestic dog altogether.
Sandi



User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

bornbad;587603 wrote: i dont breed staffs to increase the number of dogs in pounds or shelters i breed them to improve the breed

if i could not find a good home for one of my pups i would keep them

i enjoy the breed

i personally would not get such a dog from a shelter as you dont know the history of the dog

it how they are raised that makes a well balanced pet or friend


A majority of my friends have shelter rescue dogs and have not only great family pets, but pets that have gone on to get AKC obedience titles, CGC certificates and to be certified as therapy dogs.

My beloved rottweiler was a 4 year old shelter rescue and not only did she get her CGC, but she was a wonderful example of the breed until she died at the age of 12.
Sandi



User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

LilacDragon;587616 wrote: A majority of my friends have shelter rescue dogs and have not only great family pets, but pets that have gone on to get AKC obedience titles, CGC certificates and to be certified as therapy dogs.

My beloved rottweiler was a 4 year old shelter rescue and not only did she get her CGC, but she was a wonderful example of the breed until she died at the age of 12.


i agree with you

but as staffs being a strong dog and if they are raised wrong they have a tendency to turn nasty to other dog would not get a staff from a shelter unless it was a pup
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

LilacDragon;587613 wrote: Stand in a petstore some Saturday afternoon and ask someone looking at those adorable puppy mill puppies if they have been to the shelter. I can promise you that not only have they not done a single bit of research into the breed or breeds that they are looking at, but they don't want some "reject" dog that someone dumped at the pound.

Sorry but you sound like you are spouting the PETA party line. Which is really sad since PETA would like to see an end to the domestic dog altogether.


Ok, let's not make it a PETA thread. I have the utmost respect for PETA even though I dont agree with their stance on pets.

I am aware that your pet store example is probably an ignorant fool which is another reason to knock off the supply and demand factor. You almost sound, LD, as if you think that shelter dogs are somehow undesirable? I would say if that's what a person thinks then they aren't smart enough to have a dog to start with. Shelter animals are rejected due to human ignorance, apathy and lack of knowledge. None of those the fault of the animal.

If "fresh" animals were harder to come by then these people would be easier steered to the pounds where it could be "a dog here or no dog." No healthy adoptable animal should be thrown aside because some doof had to have a brand new puppy. People will always take the new, the fresh. Make it less available and give these other guys a chance.
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

Pinky;587621 wrote: A friend of mine has two Staffies, both of totally different tempraments. One is soppy, completely docile and harmless, whereas the other one is a nutter!


pinky i just love the breed

my dog is a big bull headed staff at 63/64 lbs hes a big lad and all he wants to do is play sit on ya lap and cuddle a big sop but i love him
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

bornbad;587608 wrote: red i dont agree ya are being very harsh

if there comes a time when i cant find good homes for my pups i would/will stop breeding them

under kennel club rules you can have a litter every year i dont i have planed on every 2 years

it allows ya bitches to stay in good condition

i have had rescue dogs before been a lot pf probs


Jesse, you think I'm being harsh? Ask me how many dogs I have held as they went down. Ask me how much incompetence I have seen from euthanizers who had no hell of an idea what they were doing when they killed the dog and it took 20 minutes for them to die!!! Monday and Wednesday are cadaver run days where the local vets and pounds cart their killed animals up to the landfill and dump them in "section 8." But you think I'm harsh because I don't like breeders? They're part of the problem just as much as any backyard clown.

Why don't you just stop making them now? How are you helping the situation? I doubt yours are better than anyone else's who thinks they're improving the breed. Too many I talk to don't even know what that entails. just that *their* dogs are *better* than the rest.

Kennel club rules mean nothing to me as they are not based on population sense. Two years is only so you don't overrun the bitch(es), it has nothing to do with the actual numbers being produced.

bornbad;587618 wrote: i agree with you

but as staffs being a strong dog and if they are raised wrong they have a tendency to turn nasty to other dog would not get a staff from a shelter unless it was a pup


Here's some more false info. Any dog raised wrong can do that. It not peculiar to staffs. I have placed skads of adults with no evidence of trouble. You might check out badrap.org for better info.

I think we have different ideas on what is "harsh." :mad:
User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

RedGlitter;587620 wrote: Ok, let's not make it a PETA thread. I have the utmost respect for PETA even though I dont agree with their stance on pets.

I am aware that your pet store example is probably an ignorant fool which is another reason to knock off the supply and demand factor. You almost sound, LD, as if you think that shelter dogs are somehow undesirable? I would say if that's what a person thinks then they aren't smart enough to have a dog to start with. Shelter animals are rejected due to human ignorance, apathy and lack of knowledge. None of those the fault of the animal.

If "fresh" animals were harder to come by then these people would be easier steered to the pounds where it could be "a dog here or no dog." No healthy adoptable animal should be thrown aside because some doof had to have a brand new puppy. People will always take the new, the fresh. Make it less available and give these other guys a chance.


Well, out of respect for the OP, we can agree to disagree on the PETA issue.

As for my petstore example, no - it isn't an ignorant fool. It is the opinion of 99% of the people that would actually purchase a pet store puppy.

And you really don't know me very well if you think for a second that I have anything against shelter dogs. My heart dog was a shelter dog and the Akita that I had for 6 years before her. I have spent countless hours arranging fundraisers for rescue groups that pull from shelters, transported shelter dogs to foster homes and fostered shelter dogs.

The secret to getting rid of shelter dogs (as in finding them all homes) is not to dicsourage the ethical breeders but to find a way to get rid of the puppy mills. The state of Pennsylvania can pump out more puppymill puppies in a month then all of the ethical breeders in the country do in a year.
Sandi



User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

RedGlitter;587626 wrote: Jesse, you think I'm being harsh? Ask me how many dogs I have held as they went down. Ask me how much incompetence I have seen from euthanizers who had no hell of an idea what they were doing when they killed the dog and it took 20 minutes for them to die!!! Monday and Wednesday are cadaver run days where the local vets and pounds cart their killed animals up to the landfill and dump them in "section 8." But youthink I'm harsh ebcause I don't like breeders? They're part of the problem just as much as any backyard clown.

Why don't you just stop making them now? How are you helping the situation? I doubt yours are better than anyone else's who thinks they're improving the breed. Too many I talk to don't even know what that entails. just that *their* dogs are *better* than the rest.

Kennel club rules mean nothing to me as they are not based on population sense. Two years is only so you don't overrun the bitch(es), it has nothing to do with the actual numbers being produced.



Here's some more false info. Any dog raised wrong can do that. It not peculiar to staffs. I have placed skads of aduilts with no evidence of trouble. You might check out badrap.org for better info.

I think we have different ideas on what is "harsh." :mad:


yes any dog can turn i agree but staffs that have been raised to fight will never become safe loyal pets it took me 8 years to find the right blood lines that i wanted a lot of research time and traveling

the result good strong loyal dogs with good characters with no health prob breed in

whats wrong with that
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

Red, you do realize that if we played this game your way then in 20 years there would be no dogs. None. Anywhere. Is that really the future you want to see? Personally, I would hate for my grandchilren to miss the love of a really good dog.

There is considerably more to the AKC code of ethics then just how often you should breed your bitch. And YOU don't decide that your dogs are better then others - judges compare the dogs to the written standard and decide which dogs fit closest.

As for your foray into "how many dogs have you held while they are put to sleep". Sorry honey, I never counted. The numbers weren't near as important to me as making THAT dog the most loved dog in the room at the moment. And yes - I have held puppies that I helped whelp while they were put to sleep.

So - instead of arguing with those of us who fight against puppymills and irresponsible owners and breeders - why don't you go out and educate those who think that a pet shop puppy is the way to go.
Sandi



User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

my dog and his boy

dannys divine lad(left)

diesels divine lad (right)

Attached files
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

bornbad;587630 wrote: my dog and his boy

dannys divine lad(left)

diesels divine lad (right)


as the pic shows still keep in touch with all who had one of my pups

yes checked homes would not let any pup go unless was sure of the person who showed interest in them

ring them about every 6 weeks to check on progress and offer any help and support they need

am still in contact with the breeders of my dogs
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

Pinky;587636 wrote: That's excellent.:-6

If only more people were a bit more consciencious, most of these tradgedies might be avoided.

Your pups are lovely BTW!


the pup in the pic i gave to a close friend becouse i knew he would have a good life

as i said there like my kids
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

LilacDragon;587629 wrote: Red, you do realize that if we played this game your way then in 20 years there would be no dogs. None. Anywhere. Is that really the future you want to see? Personally, I would hate for my grandchilren to miss the love of a really good dog.

There is considerably more to the AKC code of ethics then just how often you should breed your bitch. And YOU don't decide that your dogs are better then others - judges compare the dogs to the written standard and decide which dogs fit closest.

As for your foray into "how many dogs have you held while they are put to sleep". Sorry honey, I never counted. The numbers weren't near as important to me as making THAT dog the most loved dog in the room at the moment. And yes - I have held puppies that I helped whelp while they were put to sleep.

So - instead of arguing with those of us who fight against puppymills and irresponsible owners and breeders - why don't you go out and educate those who think that a pet shop puppy is the way to go.


Because Lilac, you and Jesse are both doing a fab job of proving my point. That is that neither side will accept responsibility for sticking their hand in the pot and both millers and breeders of which there is little difference, think they are somehow exempt. The truth is neither of them are exempt from contributing to the problem and education starts here.

As for your argument of no dogs in the future, that's one's old and tired. Sadly that would never happen because there is always some jerkoff who will let a litter happen. I would have little problem with DECENT breeders IF and ONLY if there were not a single dog in want of a home.

Until then it's all just BS.
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

RedGlitter;587640 wrote: Because Lilac, you and Jesse are both doing a fab job of proving my point. That is that neither side will accept responsibility for sticking their hand in the pot and both millers and breeders of which there is little difference, think they are somehow exempt. The truth is neither of them are exempt from contributing to the problem and education starts here.

As for your argument of no dogs in the future, that's one's old and tired. Sadly that would never happen because there is always some jerkoff who will let a litter happen. I would have little problem with DECENT breeders IF and ONLY if there were not a single dog in want of a home.

Until then it's all just BS.


red you are a pal of mine ya wont answer my pms whats up

any one who wants a rescue dog would not have a pure breed pedigree

any one who wants a pure breed pedigree wound not have a rescue dog

it like say dont have kid the are loads in homes
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

You are sooooo convinced that you can not be wrong that you won't even consider that you can be.

I know several ETHICAL breeders that can give you names, addresses and phone numbers for every single person that they have ever sold a puppy to. They can also tell you where every dog that they have fostered for rescue has gone.

How in the world you can possibly compare the damage done by commercial breeders that have HUNDREDS of breeding dogs pumping out puppies all year long to someone who spends thousands of dollars proving that their dog is WORTH breeding so that they can have maybe 3 litters in that dog's lifetime is beyond me.

I'm done. It is too much like talking to a brick wall.
Sandi



RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

LilacDragon;587650 wrote: You are sooooo convinced that you can not be wrong that you won't even consider that you can be.

I know several ETHICAL breeders that can give you names, addresses and phone numbers for every single person that they have ever sold a puppy to. They can also tell you where every dog that they have fostered for rescue has gone.

How in the world you can possibly compare the damage done by commercial breeders that have HUNDREDS of breeding dogs pumping out puppies all year long to someone who spends thousands of dollars proving that their dog is WORTH breeding so that they can have maybe 3 litters in that dog's lifetime is beyond me.

I'm done. It is too much like talking to a brick wall.


Hey, the feeling's mutual. If I thought I was wrong I'd say so, but the numbers and common sense say I'm not so I won't.

You aren't getting it. I'll break it down into simple terms and then I'm about done with y'all too:

As long as we are killing cats and dogs stop breeding new ones!

I can't put it any more realistic than that.
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

RedGlitter;587653 wrote: Hey, the feeling's mutual. If I thought I was wrong I'd say so, but the numbers and common sense say I'm not so I won't.

You aren't getting it. I'll break it down into simple terms and then I'm about done with y'all too:

As long as we are killing cats and dogs stop breeding new ones!

I can't put it any more realistic than that.


red ya not making sense
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
Ciao, Bella!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

bornbad;587630 wrote: my dog and his boy

dannys divine lad(left)

diesels divine lad (right)


Bornbad, they're beauts!



Personally, I do not think there are any bad breeds. My aunt had a full-blood Dobie, and a miniature poodle. The Dobie was the biggest baby ever, and simply pined if he had to stay home. She'd leave the door of her van open, and he never once left it. The poodle, that was the nutter. If you got too close to aunt's purse, this 10 lb nut would rip your ankles off!



I do not agree with PETA, at all. I think their tactics are questionable, at best. I have visited a Spanish animal shelter, and wept at what I saw there. They do not believe in neutering/spaying at all, and I can't tell you how many times we tried to rescue kittens and puppies tied up in plastic bags and tossed into the surf.



Backyard breeders and puppy mill owners are the armpit of the animal kingdom. Tougher laws are needed to crack down on them.
User avatar
guppy
Posts: 6793
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 5:49 pm

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by guppy »

i bred my two adult dogs and adopted them out to family and friends...one of my firends said it was like applying for adoption of a child...i was very picky who got em.....i dont believe in selling love....
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by gmc »

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/information/

Just taken on a dog from these guys-10 week old dalmatian/something or other. Don't know whether it was a cross breed or one dumped because it didn't quite fit the kennel club image (big black patches) It's a charity, never put a dog down and it's one of the conditions that the dog is neutered and the owners are vetted before getting one-homes inspected etc. The cost is minimal (£75) but you do have to apply for one and accept their conditions. There is a lot of follow up as well and they take the dof back if things don't work out. Round here there are a staggering number of former rescue dogs it's almost inverse snobbery-my dog is a pure bred mongrel with the little yellow tag as a badge of honour.

I think the various kennel clubs have a lot to answer for-there is something wrong with people that like a dog if it fits a certain standard, too much inbreeding to get the "right" look. A lot of people seem to buy a dog as a fashion accessory or a toy.

personally I reckon any dog under a foot tall is just a hamster substitute.
Ciao, Bella!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

Every one of our rescues have turned out to be fantastic pets. Got a full-blooded chow from a Moroccan friend, who'd rescued him herself, but couldn't keep him in her tiny apartment. Was constantly offered money to let him stud, but had him neutered instead. (I could have made some serious money off of him too!)



Wonderful dog! Scared everyone with his looks, but when they realized he just wanted to have a back rub, or be brushed, they fell for him!



Personally, I'd rather have a mixed breed, although I do think French Bulldogs are da bomb.
User avatar
el guapo
Posts: 5054
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by el guapo »

yes i sell my pups but its not about profit

my pup make above average money becouse there good healthy pups

that come from happy parents from a good home

if some one is willing to pay £550/$1000 for a pet and go through the checks i put them through there going to be good owners
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
Ciao, Bella!
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

I think I've got friend talked out of this scheme, or scam, if you will, for now.



I hope so.
User avatar
rachelg
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:31 pm

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by rachelg »

Telling breeders no dogs should be bred till all the shelter dogs have been adopted is unrealistic. That is like telling all prospective parents that they can't have their own children till all the children in foster homes and underprivileged countries have been adopted first. I have not bred a litter in close to four years and the rescue cockers I have offered with every call for a puppy are still sitting at my house. I expect they will die of old age here. Many people, myself included, don't want just any dog. They have a notion (based on fact or fantasy) of what the ideal dog is and nothing else will do. I always say, if it isn't a Cocker Spaniel, it's just a dog. When I do have a litter it is from champion parents (takes about two thousand to finish the championship on a nice dog - more if it's not as nice) and I have hip testing, eye testing and sometimes other tests if I suspect thyroid problems or other things. I have calculated that it costs about a thousand per puppy for me to produce a litter. I have rarely ever sold any of my puppies as I have kept them for myself. The four that I've sold in 17 years of breeding went to homes that were required to neuter them and to return them to me if ever they were no longer able to keep them. During their lives I received photos of them and their families and some with Santa Claus!:)

Any fan of PETA needs to check out the website petakillsanimals.com:mad: These people pretend to be concerned with animal life, but they consider an animal to be better off dead than kept as a pet. Don't be fooled by their pretense.
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by RedGlitter »

It doesn't matter how much you charge for your dogs or how good of a home you find for them, if you're creating more dogs, you are at fault. You are not exempt. Period. All breeders are laughable because they don't seem to grasp this concept. People's selfishness and greed in insisting upon a certain breed or their demand to have a brand new puppy is part of what kills these dogs and breeders do nothing but contribute to this. It's a human problem, not an animal problem.

I'm not going to argue with you but if you think that's what Peta is about, you need to learn more about what you're talking. That site is total propaganda and so is that flak about wanting animals dead. All it does is perpetuate the myths about Peta.
User avatar
rachelg
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:31 pm

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by rachelg »

RedGlitter;596518 wrote: It doesn't matter how much you charge for your dogs or how good of a home you find for them, if you're creating more dogs, you are at fault. You are not exempt. Period. All breeders are laughable because they don't seem to grasp this concept. People's selfishness and greed in insisting upon a certain breed or their demand to have a brand new puppy is part of what kills these dogs and breeders do nothing but contribute to this. It's a human problem, not an animal problem.

I'm not going to argue with you but if you think that's what Peta is about, you need to learn more about what you're talking. That site is total propaganda and so is that flak about wanting animals dead. All it does is perpetuate the myths about Peta.


If the current info on that site is propaganda, how did the case on the front page go to court? How did the police make the arrests? You think that was a fabrication?:thinking: I was at a dog show in 1993 when PETA was there letting people's dogs out of their crates and letting them run in traffic - was that to help to the dog? Do they think a spoiled show dog would know how to fend for itself as a stray in a large city?

As for concepts, you don't seem to grasp the fact that a major number of people aren't going to adopt a shelter dog because there are no puppies available. I wouldn't. I only have a true interest in a show quality, well bred healthy Cocker Spaniel. Many people feel the way I do about their breed. Many others want a puppy (of any type) but have no interest in an adult whose background is unknown. That is just a fact.
User avatar
LilacDragon
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am

Vent: Breeding for $$$

Post by LilacDragon »

rachelg;596558 wrote: If the current info on that site is propaganda, how did the case on the front page go to court? How did the police make the arrests? You think that was a fabrication?:thinking: I was at a dog show in 1993 when PETA was there letting people's dogs out of their crates and letting them run in traffic - was that to help to the dog? Do they think a spoiled show dog would know how to fend for itself as a stray in a large city?

As for concepts, you don't seem to grasp the fact that a major number of people aren't going to adopt a shelter dog because there are no puppies available. I wouldn't. I only have a true interest in a show quality, well bred healthy Cocker Spaniel. Many people feel the way I do about their breed. Many others want a puppy (of any type) but have no interest in an adult whose background is unknown. That is just a fact.


Rachel - you are never going to convince her that she is not looking at the big picture or that PETA isn't a good thing. She prefers to believe the propoganda that PETA pumps out.

While I understand your passion for show quality, healthy, well bred Cocker Spaniel (I have owned one and will never own another, personally) I am a bit saddened that you wouldn't ever consider rescuing a cocker. While I would love to have another rottweiler in my home (and I know the breeder that I would want to get a pup from), I spent 8 wonderful years with a magnificent, healthy, beautiful ambassador of the breed that was rescued from the local animal control at the age of 4.
Sandi



Post Reply

Return to “The Pets In Our Lives”