what do i do?

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:20 am

ok, cutting a long story short...

i have worked for my present company for almost 5 years... ive recently learnt that im being paid about Ã‚Â£5k less than i should be when compared to external jobs...

my present company is a huge multinational giant (!) so when they advertise jobs internally they VERY rarely put salary details mostly to stop people being able to compare what they are on.... as it happens they slipped up and i found one being advertised in a very similar role to me a grade lower paying Ã‚Â£4k more than me...

ive been in 'talks' with them about all this for the last couple of months and so far not much has happened and ive just been totally fobbed off by my manager, he has said its in hand but hes trying to say that the other secretarys here arent being paid that Ã‚Â£5k more.... i KNOW they are because ive asked them!

ok so heres the even more tricky bit... it just so happens that salary review time is coming around in october so all the salary spreadsheets are floating around at the moment.... they are password protected though... but me being the bright spark that i am has manage to crack the code and got into them.... they prove that i am Ã‚Â£5k down on the AVERAGE salary for someone at my grade.... but evidently i cant really use these pieces of paper..... or can i? i opened the spreadsheet out of someone elses inbox (which i have legitimate access to!)

help! what do i do!

i dont really want to leave and get another job i just want to be paid fairly for the work that i do.....

hope that all makes sense....

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:35 am

This issue about keeping pay secret is an issue I've been p!ssed off about since I got out of the military. When I bring it up to someone in a management position, I usually get something like "We can't allow employees to share that information! The jealousy would ruin morale! The government has it's pay system posted everywhere for anyone to see. Everyone knows, usually to the penny, what everyone else makes. The only thing keeping pay a secret has done for me is make me wonder if I'm being paid fairly. Keeping pay a secret allows a company to screw employees just as they apparently have screwed you, Pink.

If employees' pay is fair and equitable, it would increase morale to allow disclosure!

How's the employment in your area? Would threatening to quit have an affect? If you have legitimate access to the pay information other employees in comparable positions, you might consider using that information in your review. It really depends on the politics of your particular situation. You say you're a secretary? What about seeking another secretary position within the company?

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:41 am

I'm not really the best person to be helping on job matters, but I think Ac's advice is good. I hope everything turns out the way u want it to PP. And remember to keep smiling, it won't help to have your smile turned upside down by your job

PurpleChicken · Post by **PurpleChicken** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:46 am

I'm not sure that you should be using the info about other people in the company...even if you legitimately have access to the spreadsheet, it was password protected and you had to crack the code (nice work there btw

).

I would do some research external to the company. You have already said that you've seen jobs advertised for more $$. Use this as your basis. But also be armed with why you should be paid more. Lay out your arguments for the value you add to the company. If you quietly go about doing your job, sometimes your boss may not really know exactly how you add value - it can't hurt to point it out.

As a manager myself (but in a public company, so salaries are a bit more open - though only up to a certain level), I find it frustrating that people just expect that they should get a pay rise. In my company, everyone is eligible for a pay increment on each 12 month anniversary (as well as CPI + x rises under the overarching workplace agreement), but it has now become an expectation. Really everyone has to earn it. Don't get me wrong, most people do, and when you measure their performance against their plan, I have no problems signing it off.

Don't forget, your manager can't and won't remember everything that you do, so go in prepared, and spell out why you deserve more money. I'd certainly listen!

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:59 am

just so you all know, i do feel bad for having used slightly questionable methods to get hold of the info..... but im proud of myself for managing it!!

erm trying to remember all the points...

ok, theres no jobs advertised within the company at the moment which are suitable for me to apply for

externally, i am registered with a recruitment agency (i hate them tho they are always useless) and if nothing gives here ill start to write direct to people and ask if they want to employ me!

erm whatelse.... oh am i worth it..... without sounding big headed people around say that im the most helpfu secretary in the building, i do things the others refuse to do and im always cheery etc

i just dont think they are gonna pay me the going rate and im dont know how to make sure they do....

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:14 am

If you're that far below the going rate, it may be too much to ask right away, even if you deserve it. If you can draw concrete numbers of how you helped the company, do it. As a secretary, that means your product getting your boss a bonus. If he/she has gotten a bonus, raise or other chuck, show how your expertise in arranging the presentations, fast & thorough research, etc made it possible for him/her to be so effective.

Above all, show that you are fully supportive of the company line, but you deserve proper respect as well.

PurpleChicken · Post by **PurpleChicken** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:47 am

Wasn't having a crack about you use of 'slightly questionable' means - apologies if it sounded that way.

But if you're as good as you say (and I don't doubt that for a minute), then you would have no problems getting another job. You may need to use this as leverage. I think you also need to consider how much you want to stay at the company. it's a bit harder when you don't want to leave. I always have the attitude that I'm employable, so if I'm not comfortable with something, then I say it, and hopefully it will be resolved. Realise that it's not as easy at it may sound though. Good luck with it. Love to hear how you go....

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:53 am

hey no didnt think you were having a go, i genuinely do feel a bit bad but its something that had to be done!!

and it shows initiative and an intelligence to have worked out the password!!

acc - thats one thing i dont get, why wont a company give that much at once? im below what i should be paid so why dont they just pay it? why do they have to do it in stages - i dont understand.....

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:02 am

pink princess wrote: hey no didnt think you were having a go, i genuinely do feel a bit bad but its something that had to be done!!

and it shows initiative and an intelligence to have worked out the password!!

acc - thats one thing i dont get, why wont a company give that much at once? im below what i should be paid so why dont they just pay it? why do they have to do it in stages - i dont understand.....
You go to a new store & find out they're selling these fab super high quality high fashion shoes for a fraction of what you'd pay at Nordstrom's (High-end dept store). You become a regular customer, shopping there often, maybe even exclusively. One day you walk in ready to spend some money to find that they've suddenly jacked their prices up to Nordstrom's level. A lot of customers would feel cheated, even to the point of shopping at Nordstrom's out of spite.

It's not truth or fairness at work here, it's perception. Imagine if word got out that your pay nearly doubled when others only got a 5% rise!

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:10 am

true but all being adults youd have to hope that people were sensible enough to realise thta for the last 3 years or so ive been hideously underpaid..... i cant even being to think how much money ive lost...

i see your point but if they are being fair to others and paying as they deserve they should be fair to me....

ive now got hold of a copy of what all secretarys in the company in this building are being paid and they are all about Ã‚Â£2k above the average.... im only asking for average.....

oh it blows!

am not gonna let it get me down tho or stress me out!

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:17 am

You could do with a nice cold drink or a massage to relief any stress pp (I'll even offer my services, I'm not that bad you know!

)

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:19 am

not quite the reply id expected.....

took my mind of it tho!!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:19 am

pink princess wrote: true but all being adults youd have to hope that people were sensible enough to realise thta for the last 3 years or so ive been hideously underpaid..... i cant even being to think how much money ive lost...

i see your point but if they are being fair to others and paying as they deserve they should be fair to me....

ive now got hold of a copy of what all secretarys in the company in this building are being paid and they are all about Ã‚Â£2k above the average.... im only asking for average.....

oh it blows!

am not gonna let it get me down tho or stress me out!
If your boss has balls & maturity you've nothing to worry about. Adults should be able to understand, You should have been started at the appropriate level. If anyone raises a stink, your boss should be able to handle the heat with logic, fairness, & common sense. Only you know your boss. Who started you at that pay? Your boss? Do you know?

Since you have that list, demand average pay for your above-average production. That's a powerful weapon, that list. You may even be able to carry that above his head if you don't get satisfaction.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:28 am

aah yes two qualities my boss is most definitely lacking!! he has no balls whatsoever, he is possibly the least ballsy bloke ive ever come across, i have more balls than him!!

but can i really use that list seeing as ive got it by rather deceptive means..... how on earth do i explain the fact i have it in my posession?

maybe this is all needless anyway, perhaps they will surprise me.... ive access to 2 peoples outlook mailboxes so im gonna be able to keep a CLOSE eye on all goings on with the salary reviews and they are all taking place now....

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:39 am

pink princess wrote: aah yes two qualities my boss is most definitely lacking!! he has no balls whatsoever, he is possibly the least ballsy bloke ive ever come across, i have more balls than him!!

but can i really use that list seeing as ive got it by rather deceptive means..... how on earth do i explain the fact i have it in my posession?

maybe this is all needless anyway, perhaps they will surprise me.... ive access to 2 peoples outlook mailboxes so im gonna be able to keep a CLOSE eye on all goings on with the salary reviews and they are all taking place now....
Working for a unic (Yunic? Gelding!) has it's advantages. If you show strength & that he may be exposed for cheating you unless he makes it right, he may fold. It takes balls to fire someone. It's your job to deal with confidential information, right? So if you find out, by dealing with confidential information you are supposed to deal with, that you're being underpaid, you would be stupid and weak for not doing something about it. Right? It's dangerous for me to play hypotheticals with your real life, so make damn sure you agree before you run off following my advice!

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:02 am

it might not be so bad if i was meant to have had the password to the salary spreadsheets but i wasnt..... i sat at my desk and worked out what it could be.... which means ive snooped, i should most definitely not have seen what i have.....

hmmmm

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:04 am

Start job hunting in earnest. Nothing boosts your self confidence in wage negotiation more than realsing you can go elsewhere. Those in similar jobs but higher salaries, are they male or female? If male you may may grounds for a sex discrimination case. The european court has just clobbered local authorities for paying people doing the same job different salaries, the case was mainly on the grounds that it was women that were in the main being paid less than a man in the same position. Private companies are diffent of course but employment contracts have to be fair.

posted by pink princess

my present company is a huge multinational giant (!) so when they advertise jobs internally they VERY rarely put salary details mostly to stop people being able to compare what they are on.... as it happens they slipped up and i found one being advertised in a very similar role to me a grade lower paying Ã‚Â£4k more than me...

You do have the information you need, also what's in your contract with regard to salary reviews etc. If it's performance related and yours are all good ask the question why are you paid less. If it goes by grade ask the question again. If you do find out that they just don't think you are worth it then you are probably better leaving anyway since staying is going to niggle you from then on. The hard bit about changing jobs is deciding you are going to.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:15 am

gmc your kinda right.... tbh its already niggling me that theyve screwed me for the last X years.... i do have one other option, theres someone else in the company on a different floor to me (ironically my fiances boss) he always asks me to come and work for him but ive always said no.... tbh im not too sure how serious he is about it either....

hes on holiday this week so im going to tackle him when he gets back next week... i think the biggest problem is the fact that im working in a department where they care more about there final profit than they do about appreciating and recognising there staff...

all of us secretaries here are girls so no sex discrimination...

tho id put money on it that the male engineers in my team arent being screwed....

i really dont want to have to leave but its starting to feel like i dont have that much of a choice..... well see.....

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:30 am

Just my thoughts, but if you had several other options available to you, you would be more marketable. Say you went to your fiances boss, and said you'd like to take him up on his offer. Then when salary reviews came around, and you had the option of leaving your present position, your current boss may see that someone is willing to pay you what's fair. Note the word "fair." Not an astronomical raise above and beyond what others are getting, but what's fair, and RIGHT.

Also, one trick I've used, and successfully when discussing pay, is to lob the ball to the bosses court by asking, "What do YOU think I'm worth?" It puts them on the spot, and forces them to tell you what your worth to them is.

If you came by the numbers through a mailbox you had legitimate access to, there should be no problem using them for leverage, I'd say.

You know what's fair, and you know what's right, don't let them push you around. Stand up for yourself! Blackmail, of a sort, is an acceptable weapon. If you threaten them with leaving, (only if you actually have another position) and they allow you to leave, you don't want to work for them anyway. Loyalty up, and loyalty down.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:08 am

if you saw my boss youd understand why this isnt an option!! he looks kinda like hitler......

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:09 am

hey no fair you deleted your post!!

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:21 am

*laughs* Tell me the post said something about using your feminine wiles! I'm not ashamed to say I flirted my way up a dollar an hour more using a little schoolgirl skirt and a happy giggle. Although in your situation I wouldn't do that---you're obviously a professional. I think marching in there with the list of outside jobs that pay more is great...in fact I would apply to those jobs. If you get a written job offer you could pass it under your boss' nose and THAT would be GREAT leverage.