How Much Can Employers Demand?

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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Other end of the spectrum from Wal-Mart:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can the Boss Insist on Healthy Habits?

Some Employers' Insistence on Healthy Living Raises Privacy Concerns

By RANDY DOTINGA





Jan. 18, 2006 — - A year ago, the Weyco medical benefits firm in Michigan made news nationwide by sacking employees who refused to try to quit smoking.



But that was just the beginning. Now, the company is working even harder to force its workers to take better care of themselves.



In 2006, Weyco employees who refuse to take mandated medical tests and physical examinations will see their monthly health insurance premiums jump by $65. By next year, their annual insurance bills will grow by more than $1,000 if they still fail to follow instructions.



"The cost of health care is frustrating everybody, and we believe at Weyco that we have to heal ourselves," says Howard Weyers, company president and founder. "We think it's vital."



But at what price? Should bosses like Weyers worry about whether workers are getting annual dental exams, eating healthy or jogging regularly? Or should employees have a basic right to live their personal lives without interference?

These questions are gaining resonance as more American companies try to convince employees to watch their health.



Story continues...
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Tombstone
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Post by Tombstone »

It's a sticky situation. Being an employer and an employee over my career - I see both sides of the equation.

It is becoming so expensive now to offer health care to workers that I think a hybrid approach should be allowed. i.e.: For those who refuse to have health exams, refuse to go to the dentist, or insist on smoking should be allowed to be dropped from the employer's insurance requirements. Let them live their lives as they see fit. The employer and the employees then don't have to pay the higher fees due to one, two, or many who are driving up the costs due to their lifestyle.

People are crying wolf over this issue - but behind the scenes, the employers are striking back by only hiring candidates now that meet their new health requirements. So...out with the old...in with the healthy new. No matter what you do, some group is going to get the shaft.

Or, you can refer to this story. :)

http://www.digitalfog.com/index.php/200 ... ch-breaks/
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minks
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Post by minks »

Tombstone wrote: It's a sticky situation. Being an employer and an employee over my career - I see both sides of the equation.

It is becoming so expensive now to offer health care to workers that I think a hybrid approach should be allowed. i.e.: For those who refuse to have health exams, refuse to go to the dentist, or insist on smoking should be allowed to be dropped from the employer's insurance requirements. Let them live their lives as they see fit. The employer and the employees then don't have to pay the higher fees due to one, two, or many who are driving up the costs due to their lifestyle.

People are crying wolf over this issue - but behind the scenes, the employers are striking back by only hiring candidates now that meet their new health requirements. So...out with the old...in with the healthy new. No matter what you do, some group is going to get the shaft.

Or, you can refer to this story. :)

http://www.digitalfog.com/index.php/200 ... ch-breaks/


It is becoming so expensive now to offer health care to workers

How so? We here can afford it? Is your health cost so high then?
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�

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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Where are the unionists on this?? We're willing to burn Wal-Marts to the ground (figuratively) because they won't give healthcare, but you're silent on this?!?
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Lon
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Post by Lon »

It would be fine if a employee's bad individual habits only affected his self, but if those bad habits affect others, both medically and financialy, then maybe the employers demands are justified. Don't forget, smoking has been banned in many public places and here in New Zealand, even the Pubs. Why??? Detrimental to the health of the non-smoker. The obese employee will utilize over time a higher proportion of health benefits resulting in increased costs to all other employees, same with the smoker.
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Post by minks »

Far Rider wrote: wait one minute....

now its ok to limit smokers activity and obesesity but way down on the bottom of this board I got lambasted for mentioning that we should stop homosexual activity because it increases the risk of HIV? And that disease is apparently spreading to heterosexual teens!

what abotu the cost of HIV and aids related illnesses?

Whoa I apologize for bringing this issue up here... (im not debating the idea of homosexual activity in humans)


How about a tierd system, you go for a pre exam then if you have HIV, you smoke, you exceede the cargo plane weight allowed you pay a higher health care premium, like how life insurance works. And NO i don't think that is discrimination, if you wanna fight it, then here is your options... no health care coverage on the acount you are behaving like a twit. Least they are allowed the option for health care coverage.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Far Rider wrote: wait one minute....



now its ok to limit smokers activity and obesesity but way down on the bottom of this board I got lambasted for mentioning that we should stop homosexual activity because it increases the risk of HIV? And that disease is apparently spreading to heterosexual teens!



what abotu the cost of HIV and aids related illnesses?



Whoa I apologize for bringing this issue up here... (im not debating the idea of homosexual activity in humans)
Excellent point! It'd be a nuclear bomb to make a policy dictating who an employee could have sex with .... or how!
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Lon
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Post by Lon »

Far Rider wrote: wait one minute....

now its ok to limit smokers activity and obesesity but way down on the bottom of this board I got lambasted for mentioning that we should stop homosexual activity because it increases the risk of HIV? And that disease is apparently spreading to heterosexual teens!

what abotu the cost of HIV and aids related illnesses?

Whoa I apologize for bringing this issue up here... (im not debating the idea of homosexual activity in humans)


That's a weak argument Far. Homosexulaity does not automatically cause Aids, whereas smoking and obesity will most definitely result in INCREASED health problems and attendant costs.

Also, the thread is about EMPLOYER DEMANDS.
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Post by BabyRider »

A boss can encourage healthy habits. A boss can provide tools to be more healthy. A boss can NOT force any type of habit good or bad onto it's employees, and any company who would try it I wouldn't work for. What a person does outside the work place is their business. What if someone had a weird sexual fetish? Bondage and S & M can be dangerous, are they going to start sticking their noses into employees sex lives as well??? I think not. Once I punch my time card, you can kiss my leather-clad biker ass.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


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Post by Lon »

[quote=BabyRider]A What if someone had a weird sexual fetish? Bondage and S & M can be dangerous



That's true Baby, but the key here is CAN BE DANGEROUS, whereas obesity and smoking WILL cause health and monetary problems, no quetion about it.
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Post by Accountable »

BabyRider wrote: A boss can encourage healthy habits. A boss can provide tools to be more healthy. A boss can NOT force any type of habit good or bad onto it's employees, and any company who would try it I wouldn't work for. What a person does outside the work place is their business. What if someone had a weird sexual fetish? Bondage and S & M can be dangerous, are they going to start sticking their noses into employees sex lives as well??? I think not. Once I punch my time card, you can kiss my leather-clad biker ass.But then it's all good. You don't want to work there so you go. They don't want non-compliance, so they're happy too. Personally, I think that's the way the world should work.

Where it gets screwy is when whole groups want to get paid by the company but don't want to follow company policy.
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Post by BabyRider »

Lon wrote: [quote=BabyRider]A What if someone had a weird sexual fetish? Bondage and S & M can be dangerous





That's true Baby, but the key here is CAN BE DANGEROUS, whereas obesity and smoking WILL cause health and monetary problems, no quetion about it.
Riding a motorcycle IS dangerous. Do you think they should have the right to tell me I can't do that?
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

minks wrote: How about a tierd system, you go for a pre exam then if you have HIV, you smoke, you exceede the cargo plane weight allowed you pay a higher health care premium, like how life insurance works. And NO i don't think that is discrimination, if you wanna fight it, then here is your options... no health care coverage on the acount you are behaving like a twit. Least they are allowed the option for health care coverage.


Minks these guys talk a real big line, only because they get medical Insurance from the service,(for life) believe me if they were in the real world they would be the biggest cry babies. lol:wah:
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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

Far Rider wrote: Stu, I grew up without medical insurance, my family are farmers, we paid cash for our healthcare and we never missed a bill.



My parent have never had health insurance. Both my mother and father refused to submit for medicare and theyve never taken a handout from the government.



I work hard for my money, I run my own business and I am retired from the military. But I laid my life on the line way more times than I can count. I earned that healthcare coverage.



But I have an HMO through the military insurance and right now with the war going one I cant see a doc out at the base, I see a local Doc through Insurance I have with my employer. Interestingly enough, the local hospital honors both of my insurances... now its the same hospital I work for by the way. And heres what they have to do... they rifle though my benefits and tell me which one has the least amount of co-pay for me. and I use that coverage.



But I pay for both of them, and Im a contractor to my hospital not a reguilar employee so I pay nearly full price for this insurance.



I keep it because there are some things my "unlimited lifetime us military provided healthcare coverage" does not cover!:D


Years ago it took only one income to provide for a family....yes Unions changed all this, even if you were not Union because companys couldnt keep workers....

How much is your premium? Cobra is about $400.00 for one person.....and if you have pre-existing problems your screwed when you try to get your own.
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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

Far Rider wrote: Its 760.00 month for my family of five.



Ive been told by a few insurance analysts that if californians didnt have to pay for illegal aliens' health insurance the cost would be somehwere around 390.00/month for the same coverage I have. I have no way to verify that.



I honestly dont mind paying for legal resident insurance costs, what bugs me is the illegal aliens coming here, working and dont paying for their own health care. I say collect the debt.


They aint leaving, there is a deal with Mexico
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Post by Lon »

Far Rider wrote: Well then let me throw a wrench in this whole employer

demand thing.

Wrench??? You have thrown in a screwdriver and hacksaw as well

Employers are the ones that are getting the shaft then, and then they are passing it to the employee.

No----Everyone gets the shaft, both employer & employee.



The real problem is healthcare itself.

Without a doubt.

The insured is paying for the uninsured who still gets healthcare.

That's true as well

The government riemburses very little, so the insurance companies pass that unto the working people, who pay for it in higher premiums whithe less coverage and higher out of pocket expenses.

That's what insurance is.



Employers woudlnt have to demand anything if we didnt have to indirectly foot the bill for every illegal immigrant that needs emergent care. And then the employee could afford a more modest healthcare premium.

Illegal immigrants healthcare is responsible for a very small

part of health care costs even though the costs are spread among everyone.



Eventually there wont be any of the paying sources and the government will have to foot the whole bill... or the common people will sue demanding large employers foot the bill for healthcare...or both.... hey wait isnt that the walmart issue?
We could beat this one over the head forever and not scratch the surface. I have yet to meet anyone from any country that is 100% happy with their health care system.

I don't have an answer to the problem and I am not sure anyone does.

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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

Lon wrote: We could beat this one over the head forever and not scratch the surface. I have yet to meet anyone from any country that is 100% happy with their health care system.

I don't have an answer to the problem and I am not sure anyone does.




But we dont have one:-1
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Post by minks »

Lon wrote: We could beat this one over the head forever and not scratch the surface. I have yet to meet anyone from any country that is 100% happy with their health care system.

I don't have an answer to the problem and I am not sure anyone does.




I am glad for mine albiet it isn't perfect but it saves my $000000.00 Especially in dental care over the years for myself and my girls. We have thus far been blessed with good health. I will continue to pay my $40+ per month to have coverage for myself and my daughters. Every little bit helps.
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Post by Lon »

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: But we dont have one:-1


Surely you jest or live in a vacum Cowboy.
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Post by BabyRider »

BabyRider wrote:

Riding a motorcycle IS dangerous. Do you think they should have the right to tell me I can't do that?


I still want to know where the line gets drawn. If things that could be dangerous to you or are known to be dangerous to you are reasons for dismissal, or not getting covereage, will they next tell me that I can't ride my motorcycle?
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by Lon »

BabyRider wrote: I still want to know where the line gets drawn. If things that could be dangerous to you or are known to be dangerous to you are reasons for dismissal, or not getting covereage, will they next tell me that I can't ride my motorcycle?


I think the logical answer would be anything that you do that most definitely would cause injury to another could be reasons for dismissal.

Riding your bike is not a guarantee of injuring someone else.
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Post by BabyRider »

Lon wrote: I think the logical answer would be anything that you do that most definitely would cause injury to another could be reasons for dismissal.

Riding your bike is not a guarantee of injuring someone else.
HA!! You've never seen me ride, have you, Lon?? :yh_rotfl



(I'm kidding, I"m a darn good rider I just couldn't resist the opportunity.)

What are you doing up at this hour, Lon?
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by Lon »

BabyRider wrote: HA!! You've never seen me ride, have you, Lon?? :yh_rotfl



(I'm kidding, I"m a darn good rider I just couldn't resist the opportunity.)

What are you doing up at this hour, Lon?


Sorry love, it's only 7:36 PM Friday night here in New Zealand
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Post by BabyRider »

Lon wrote: Sorry love, it's only 7:36 PM Friday night here in New Zealand
I remembered right after I posted that this is your time of year to be in NZ. What's the weather like there now? I'll admit to the teeniest bit of envy of you to be able to live half the year there. Will you please post some pictures of the area where you live so I can live vicariously?



Sorry about the blatant hijack, too.:o
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by Lon »

Far Rider wrote: Well I think its impossible to dictate behavior based limits without specific up front documentation in contract form much like NFL players not being able to skydive in the offseason without very specific contract violations.

It is interesting though...

let say they do it this way...

The total premium is $400.month... employers usually pay about half of the premiums... but lets say they pick up an extra 25 bucks a month if your a non smoker, and another 25 bucks if your in your IBW range.

They shouldnt make you pay more than the premiums but I dont see anything wrong with incentives for good health??? Then its a choice for the employee.

Lon, I'll get the percentage tomorrow and report back to you. But Im sure my hospital states that its about 62% of our operating costs are for indigent care. And the largest percentage of that is the undocumented worker. Im in Solano County.

How abotu one more wrench! Um how does the employees family figure into this equation? What if my wife smokes and is over weight? do I have to pay for that too? And should the employer have control over her?
For hospital costs you are probably right Far, but that is only a part of the health care costs. Drugs, lab tests, colonoscopies, biopsies, cat scans, etc, etc. etc., angioplasty, are alll separate from hospital costs.
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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

Lon wrote: Surely you jest or live in a vacum Cowboy.


No I don't jest.....isn't that sad?
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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

minks wrote: I am glad for mine albiet it isn't perfect but it saves my $000000.00 Especially in dental care over the years for myself and my girls. We have thus far been blessed with good health. I will continue to pay my $40+ per month to have coverage for myself and my daughters. Every little bit helps.


You have got to be kidding me????

Is that all you pay? Do you have a co-pay with that? What about Prescriptions? :-3
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Post by Accountable »

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: No I don't jest.....isn't that sad?
Yes, it's sad that you take our superior healthcare system for granted.



Also, on your shot about Far's & my healthcare. I find it amazingly hipocritical of you to complain that Wal-Mart doesn't give healthcare to their employees, and simultaneously complain that the military does give healthcare to their employees.



How do you justify these two opposite views?
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Post by BabyRider »

Accountable wrote: Also, on your shot about Far's & my healthcare. I find it amazingly hipocritical of you to complain that Wal-Mart doesn't give healthcare to their employees, and simultaneously complain that the military does give healthcare to their employees.



How do you justify these two opposite views?
I'd be real interested to hear the answer to this, too.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

Accountable wrote: Yes, it's sad that you take our superior healthcare system for granted.



Also, on your shot about Far's & my healthcare. I find it amazingly hipocritical of you to complain that Wal-Mart doesn't give healthcare to their employees, and simultaneously complain that the military does give healthcare to their employees.



How do you justify these two opposite views?


I don't cos thats not evan what I said
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Post by Accountable »

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: I don't cos thats not evan what I said
Okay ..... :-2 .... enlighten me, please, because you've been ragging on me for quite some time about my healthcare benefits.
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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

Accountable wrote: Yes, it's sad that you take our superior healthcare system for granted.



Also, on your shot about Far's & my healthcare. I find it amazingly hipocritical of you to complain that Wal-Mart doesn't give healthcare to their employees, and simultaneously complain that the military does give healthcare to their employees.



How do you justify these two opposite views?


WTF are you talking about? We have no" Healthcare" here.

Unless you have a job with "binnys" you have Jack.



Do you got that Baby Rider?



If you want to go to the other extreme.....If you have nothing at all you can get some "Healthcare"
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Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

Accountable wrote: Okay ..... :-2 .... enlighten me, please, because you've been ragging on me for quite some time about my health care benefits.


No I'm not, you don't have to worry about it because you're set, by the same token you are telling everybody else "FU" because you have yours and at the end of the day it is everybody else's taxes that are paying for yours.....thats what I'm saying.
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Post by Accountable »

SnoozeControl wrote: Veterans get free health care? I know they can visit the VA Hospital, but that isn't always convenient or practical. Do private doctors accept your visits? Is there a health care plan that has lower fees for vets?
Tricare is an HMO with premiums and co-pays. Active duty guys get free healthcare in a military facility for all family members. If they seek care elsewhere, premiums and co-pays. I haven't visited a VA hospital yet. I'm not sure how that works.
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Post by BabyRider »

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: Do you got that Baby Rider?


Why are you quoting Accountable and talking to me? Which of us are you directing your comments to?

And if you're asking if I have health care, then yes, my husband works for General Motors, I have the best health care out there.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by Accountable »

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: No I'm not, you don't have to worry about it because you're set, by the same token you are telling everybody else "FU" because you have yours and at the end of the day it is everybody else's taxes that are paying for yours.....thats what I'm saying.
Every individual adult is responsible to take care of him- or herself. One way to do that is to join the military, yes. There are hundreds of other ways as well, including working one's ass off as an entrepeneur, creating employment for others, and making enough money to take care of oneself. Another way is to bitch and moan that people who pinch pennies and take care of themselves also be made responsible for those who will not take care of themselves.



Those who can not take care of themselves are being shortchanged by the parasites who can but will not. I don't understand why your ire is not aimed at them.
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Post by Accountable »

BabyRider wrote: Why are you quoting Accountable and talking to me? Which of us are you directing your comments to?

And if you're asking if I have health care, then yes, my husband works for General Motors, I have the best health care out there.
I think it's your AV. She's seen my pic. :thinking: I will grudgingly admit a slight resemblance.
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