Were Essenes Jewish?

Discuss the Jewish Faith and the Torah.
koan
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by koan »

I assume that they were because that is where Jesus studied and he was Jewish. How does this group relate to the current Jewish faith...or does it?
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Clint
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by Clint »

koan wrote: I assume that they were because that is where Jesus studied and he was Jewish. How does this group relate to the current Jewish faith...or does it?
The Essenes were used by God to preserve His word. They either hid their Hebrew scrolls from the Romans who wiped them out in about 68 AD or they stored them out of respect.

Many believe John the Baptizer and Jewish High Priest was brought up as an Essene because of his message of repentance and emphasis on baptism.

They believed that prophecy was about them, in particular they believed the Messiah was coming soon and they saw Joel: 28-29 as being relevant to them. They were no doubt Jews and very interested in the coming Messiah.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
koan
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by koan »

I asked because I have also read that

They were not limited to a single religion, but studied all of them in order to extract the great scientific principles. They considered each religion to be a different stage of a single revelation. They accorded great importance to the teachings of the ancient Chaldeans, of Zoroaster, of Hermes Trismegiste, to the secret instructions of Moses and of one of the founding Masters of their order who had transmitted techniques similar to those of Buddhism, as well as to the revelation of Enoch.

They possessed a living science of all of these revelations.

Thus, they knew how to communicate with angelic beings and had solved the question of the origin of evil on the earth.


I wondered if a combination of ancient religions is what made Christ so wise.
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Clint
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by Clint »

koan wrote: I asked because I have also read that



I wondered if a combination of ancient religions is what made Christ so wise.


I think it was the thorough understanding of one. The one He had come to revive and hopefully save.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
koan
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by koan »

elise wrote: If you mean by Christ, the Jewish rabbi named Jesus, please remember Jesus (son of Mary and Joseph) lived and died as an orthodox Jew.

Christianity came about some 70 years after Jesus' death and was therefore started by people who never knew him.


You say he was "orthodox" but I thought he was rather unorthodox according to Jewish custom and belief at the time. What made his words stand out from those of others at the time?
koan
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by koan »

I have read more about the bible than I have read of the bible itself. I am fascinated by how many versions of the life of Christ seem to exist and the number of versions of the "truth" that have been offered to the world. You mention the lost years. It seems pretty obvious to me that Jesus must have been training or studying during this time and pretty obvious that where he studied must have been known but withheld from the bible. If it was withheld from the bible then it probably does not support the intended Christian religion to say where he was. But to go on means a string of therefores and becomes less and less obvious or provable.

It is quite simple that Jesus did not fulfill the role of Messiah according to Jewish signs of such and could not be considered the Messiah although he seems to be recognized as a wise teacher. You mention that simple statements can offend people in religion and politics. Although true, so far in the Garden the members are very open and tolerant. It is nice because it allows for exploration of topics even through blunt statements that brings greater understanding and hopefully unity through tolerance and teaching. In this way we all get to teach each other so I just post it as it occurs to me and deal with the consequences as they arise. As long as intentions are good it usually works out in the end.
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Clint
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by Clint »

elise wrote: All Jews were considered orthodox at the time, so my use of the word was meant only to convey he was a practicing Jew. And, yes, Jesus practiced all the Jewish laws and customs throughout his life. He was considered a rabbi, which only means teacher. Did you know that 'rabbi' = teacher?

At the time, there were many Jews who asked other Jews to follow them. Do you know of the so-called lost years of Jesus? Many scholars suppose that he spent them in the East where he learned 'ways' of Eastern mystics. I will not go into that at this time out of fear of offending any Christians who might be reading this.

Anyway, also at the time, the Jews were under the thumb of pre-Christian Romans. (Remember, "Render unto Caeser ... " ?) Jews had been the slaves of the Egyptians, then under the awful rule of pagan Romans. Jews were looking everywhere for a (the) messiah. Jesus was but one choice.

Some 70 years later, Paul decided Jesus was actually the messiah and he began to spread that message. Please recall the New Testament was written long after Jesus' own generation had completely died off.

To sum up my response, therefore, to your question: (1) you base it on a false premise about Jesus, son of Joseph & Mary; and (2) 3-1/2 generations into the future, the Jewish people were torn apart by the beginnings of Christianity ... i.e. some became Christians and some did not.

The real miracle in all of this is that there are still Jews today. By all other examples, the Jewish tradition should be a thing of the past. Instead, a small proportion of the world's population has clung to their original faith ... through dispersons, pogroms, the inquisition and the shoah. I think we do it just to piss people off; either that or we're just really reeeaaalllllly stubborn!

Seriously, you might be interested in reading some history; especially on the historical take concerning characters in both the Old and New Testaments. It's fascinating to me, but, then again, I'm not religious (spiritual, I guess, but definitely not a fan of organized religion) and so the purely historical 'discussions' do not offend me.

As with politics, it's difficult to know how far to go when addressing questions as seemingly simple as the one you posed without treading on someone else's faith.

:-6
Yeshua was indeed a practicing Jew as were his talmidim.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas as well as Paul were all contemporaries of Yeshua (Jesus) as well as his students and followers (Paul came along later). They all wrote about the one they believed to be the Messiah and did it in their life time. They were probably struck by many things that prompted so many of them to write. They may have remembered the account that Yeshua gave of the future of Jerusalem and the Temple, recorded in Matthew 24. Or they may have realized they weren’t going to live much longer and it was time to tell of the one who fulfilled prophecy, walked among them and was most certainly the Messiah.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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capt_buzzard
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by capt_buzzard »

Jesus was a Jew. He did not start Christianity. That came about much later or so we are led to believe.
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Clint
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by Clint »

capt_buzzard wrote: Jesus was a Jew. He did not start Christianity. That came about much later or so we are led to believe.


Agreed. Jesus was a Jew who wanted to get Judaism back on track. He was successful with a portion of Judaism that followed him. I believe that when it comes to his following, he wanted them to be Jews practicing Judaism as he was teaching them to do.
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capt_buzzard
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Were Essenes Jewish?

Post by capt_buzzard »

Clint wrote: Agreed. Jesus was a Jew who wanted to get Judaism back on track. He was successful with a portion of Judaism that followed him. I believe that when it comes to his following, he wanted them to be Jews practicing Judaism as he was teaching them to do. Agree Clint,

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