"A man who led the war on improper use of apostrophes now admits defeat, saying his grammar vigilante campaign has been brought to an end by a culture of carelessness. So what now?"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50692797
Alas, the end is near. First the apostrophe falls, next, perhaps, the Comma? then a merger of the you variants? Ima gonna wait to see how this plays out.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
LarsMac;1528564 wrote: "A man who led the war on improper use of apostrophes now admits defeat, saying his grammar vigilante campaign has been brought to an end by a culture of carelessness. So what now?"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50692797
Alas, the end is near. First the apostrophe falls, next, perhaps, the Comma? then a merger of the you variants? Ima gonna wait to see how this plays out.
A sad day indeed, I used the site several times to check my memory and certainly believe the correct usage is important, for all grammar but especially for the apostrophe.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50692797
Alas, the end is near. First the apostrophe falls, next, perhaps, the Comma? then a merger of the you variants? Ima gonna wait to see how this plays out.
A sad day indeed, I used the site several times to check my memory and certainly believe the correct usage is important, for all grammar but especially for the apostrophe.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
LarsMac;1528564 wrote: "A man who led the war on improper use of apostrophes now admits defeat, saying his grammar vigilante campaign has been brought to an end by a culture of carelessness. So what now?"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50692797
Alas, the end is near. First the apostrophe falls, next, perhaps, the Comma? then a merger of the you variants? Ima gonna wait to see how this plays out.
Advertisements are the most abusive of grammar. We read them and it just flows and nobody gives it a second thought.
The main reason I have Grammarly is for a spell checker, but it has been great for correcting my use of commas.
I do not expect everybody to be expert, but at least know some to the basics.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50692797
Alas, the end is near. First the apostrophe falls, next, perhaps, the Comma? then a merger of the you variants? Ima gonna wait to see how this plays out.
Advertisements are the most abusive of grammar. We read them and it just flows and nobody gives it a second thought.
The main reason I have Grammarly is for a spell checker, but it has been great for correcting my use of commas.
I do not expect everybody to be expert, but at least know some to the basics.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
Bryn Mawr;1528567 wrote: A sad day indeed, I used the site several times to check my memory and certainly believe the correct usage is important, for all grammar but especially for the apostrophe.
My current pet peeve is the use of "george and I" as in "if you have questions, please send a message to George and I"
I hear so many similar gaffs coming from relatively intelligent people.
My current pet peeve is the use of "george and I" as in "if you have questions, please send a message to George and I"
I hear so many similar gaffs coming from relatively intelligent people.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
Language and it's usage changes constantly and the pace of change is getting faster there's not a lot of point getting hung upon it. fireman and firefighter used to be distinct occupations how many people know what a fuller used to do? 40 years ago no one would have been able to guess what software was. My pet niggle, having said that, is creeping americanisation with ass instead of arse, z being used instead of s in words like specialised. There's a sign company near me called specialized signs hardly a good advert for their proof reading in a uk context.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
-
magentaflame
- Posts: 3007
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:11 pm
- Location: Victoria, Australia
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
He's right ...I don't care anymore unless it's an important document. It's one thing to know it and then discard, but it's quite another to not know at all. Which I fear is the case with the younger Gen.
With the devices I use my grammar can be atrocious on one but not the other.
With the devices I use my grammar can be atrocious on one but not the other.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
Clearly there is only one way to mitigate this disaster. ForumGarden must become a zero tolerance site and leed the way toward a brighter future. I propose that all ungrammatical or misspelled posts be marked as such, with corrections, in a forum area set aside for that purpose.
My current major area of concern is gender-adjusted syntax, I have no idea yet how it's meant to work. It seems to require a knowledge of the preferred mode of address of each individual.
Sam Smith says they want to take a plural neuter form despite there being only one of them. This involves actively breaking a grammatical rule which has existed for centuries and I for one find it difficult to commit to paper. Their request is made more debatable in that it's exactly what a publicity agent would get excited by, free exposure in mainstream outlets. They may be adding a deeply-held conviction to the conversation but it's awfully hard to tell from the outside.
My current major area of concern is gender-adjusted syntax, I have no idea yet how it's meant to work. It seems to require a knowledge of the preferred mode of address of each individual.
Sam Smith says they want to take a plural neuter form despite there being only one of them. This involves actively breaking a grammatical rule which has existed for centuries and I for one find it difficult to commit to paper. Their request is made more debatable in that it's exactly what a publicity agent would get excited by, free exposure in mainstream outlets. They may be adding a deeply-held conviction to the conversation but it's awfully hard to tell from the outside.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
spot;1528583 wrote: Clearly there is only one way to mitigate this disaster. ForumGarden must become a zero tolerance site and leed the way toward a brighter future. I propose that all ungrammatical or misspelled posts be marked as such, with corrections, in a forum area set aside for that purpose.
My current major area of concern is gender-adjusted syntax, I have no idea yet how it's meant to work. It seems to require a knowledge of the preferred mode of address of each individual.
Sam Smith says they want to take a plural neuter form despite there being only one of them. This involves actively breaking a grammatical rule which has existed for centuries and I for one find it difficult to commit to paper. Their request is made more debatable in that it's exactly what a publicity agent would get excited by, free exposure in mainstream outlets. They may be adding a deeply-held conviction to the conversation but it's awfully hard to tell from the outside.
That's not really practical IMO (note use of IMO an abbreviation that would have been meaningless until recently). I can spell well enough I can also type both together however, cause me difficulty. Should I have used an apostrophe there? I've had many an argument about that one especially in a long sentence when exactly shpuld you use it? I've always used it when there would be a natural pause when you are speaking but in a long sentence you don't always pause so sticking one in seems rather moot.
In my experiance those who are most adamant they know the correct way to di it are usually the ones with the least knowledge or understanding of grammar. Pronunciation is another area where you meet these people. I am scots at least I can pronounce the letter r properly most english pewople and americans cannot. That's why they say ass instead of arse they all share the same speech defect.
Smileys don't work for me on this site, dead annoying
My current major area of concern is gender-adjusted syntax, I have no idea yet how it's meant to work. It seems to require a knowledge of the preferred mode of address of each individual.
Sam Smith says they want to take a plural neuter form despite there being only one of them. This involves actively breaking a grammatical rule which has existed for centuries and I for one find it difficult to commit to paper. Their request is made more debatable in that it's exactly what a publicity agent would get excited by, free exposure in mainstream outlets. They may be adding a deeply-held conviction to the conversation but it's awfully hard to tell from the outside.
That's not really practical IMO (note use of IMO an abbreviation that would have been meaningless until recently). I can spell well enough I can also type both together however, cause me difficulty. Should I have used an apostrophe there? I've had many an argument about that one especially in a long sentence when exactly shpuld you use it? I've always used it when there would be a natural pause when you are speaking but in a long sentence you don't always pause so sticking one in seems rather moot.
In my experiance those who are most adamant they know the correct way to di it are usually the ones with the least knowledge or understanding of grammar. Pronunciation is another area where you meet these people. I am scots at least I can pronounce the letter r properly most english pewople and americans cannot. That's why they say ass instead of arse they all share the same speech defect.
Smileys don't work for me on this site, dead annoying
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
spot;1528583 wrote: Sam Smith says they want to take a plural neuter form despite there being only one of them. This involves actively breaking a grammatical rule which has existed for centuries and I for one find it difficult to commit to paper. Their request is made more debatable in that it's exactly what a publicity agent would get excited by, free exposure in mainstream outlets. They may be adding a deeply-held conviction to the conversation but it's awfully hard to tell from the outside.
The best discussion I've found is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
It is possible that my problem stems from having been explicitly taught by Mr Whittle at primary school to enforce number agreement and hence never to do what is now prescribed as correct. The dissonance is very evident in my mind.
The most difficult instance is whether to use the singular or plural when there is clearly only one person being referenced.
Either: You spoke to Sam Smith earlier - is they attending the weekend conference?
Or: You spoke to Sam Smith earlier - are they attending the weekend conference?
- and that pair of alternatives is invariably where I find myself changing the sentence rather than making a choice, because I have a problem with either as a solution. If anyone would like to speak up for one or the other I would be interested to know the reason. The first has conflict from the singular "is" and the assumed plural of "they", the second has conflict from the plural "are" and the fact that there's clearly just one person referred to.
Can "is they" ever be used, or should I abandon number agreement as a grammatical concept.
I concede one can avoid the syntax by saying "will they attend the weekend conference" but I would still like to focus on the specific question.
The best discussion I've found is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
It is possible that my problem stems from having been explicitly taught by Mr Whittle at primary school to enforce number agreement and hence never to do what is now prescribed as correct. The dissonance is very evident in my mind.
The most difficult instance is whether to use the singular or plural when there is clearly only one person being referenced.
Either: You spoke to Sam Smith earlier - is they attending the weekend conference?
Or: You spoke to Sam Smith earlier - are they attending the weekend conference?
- and that pair of alternatives is invariably where I find myself changing the sentence rather than making a choice, because I have a problem with either as a solution. If anyone would like to speak up for one or the other I would be interested to know the reason. The first has conflict from the singular "is" and the assumed plural of "they", the second has conflict from the plural "are" and the fact that there's clearly just one person referred to.
Can "is they" ever be used, or should I abandon number agreement as a grammatical concept.
I concede one can avoid the syntax by saying "will they attend the weekend conference" but I would still like to focus on the specific question.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
gmc;1528584 wrote: In my experiance those who are most adamant they know the correct way to di it are usually the ones with the least knowledge or understanding of grammar.
I'm not sure that's necessarily fair. There are legitimate experts.
I'm not sure that's necessarily fair. There are legitimate experts.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
LarsMac;1528569 wrote: My current pet peeve is the use of "george and I" as in "if you have questions, please send a message to George and I"
I hear so many similar gaffs coming from relatively intelligent people.
I can remember when that was correct usage (as in ‘my husband and I’ in every Queen’s Speech).
That morphed into “George an me†and then to “me and George†which, personally, I find grates on the ear.
I hear so many similar gaffs coming from relatively intelligent people.
I can remember when that was correct usage (as in ‘my husband and I’ in every Queen’s Speech).
That morphed into “George an me†and then to “me and George†which, personally, I find grates on the ear.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
spot;1528583 wrote: Clearly there is only one way to mitigate this disaster. ForumGarden must become a zero tolerance site and leed the way toward a brighter future. I propose that all ungrammatical or misspelled posts be marked as such, with corrections, in a forum area set aside for that purpose.
My current major area of concern is gender-adjusted syntax, I have no idea yet how it's meant to work. It seems to require a knowledge of the preferred mode of address of each individual.
Sam Smith says they want to take a plural neuter form despite there being only one of them. This involves actively breaking a grammatical rule which has existed for centuries and I for one find it difficult to commit to paper. Their request is made more debatable in that it's exactly what a publicity agent would get excited by, free exposure in mainstream outlets. They may be adding a deeply-held conviction to the conversation but it's awfully hard to tell from the outside.
I thought it was only royalty that took the plural mode of address.
What form of a dress Sam Smith prefers is of no interest to me, I have no idea who or what Sam Smith is.
My current major area of concern is gender-adjusted syntax, I have no idea yet how it's meant to work. It seems to require a knowledge of the preferred mode of address of each individual.
Sam Smith says they want to take a plural neuter form despite there being only one of them. This involves actively breaking a grammatical rule which has existed for centuries and I for one find it difficult to commit to paper. Their request is made more debatable in that it's exactly what a publicity agent would get excited by, free exposure in mainstream outlets. They may be adding a deeply-held conviction to the conversation but it's awfully hard to tell from the outside.
I thought it was only royalty that took the plural mode of address.
What form of a dress Sam Smith prefers is of no interest to me, I have no idea who or what Sam Smith is.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
Bryn Mawr;1528590 wrote: I can remember when that was correct usage (as in ‘my husband and I’ in every Queen’s Speech).
But so it was, as she used it. The phrase "My husband and I" was the subject of her sentence. On the other hand "My butler brought the morning's post to my husband and me". "My husband and me" is the object of the second sentence, and very ungainly it looks too, but it's properly grammatical.
But so it was, as she used it. The phrase "My husband and I" was the subject of her sentence. On the other hand "My butler brought the morning's post to my husband and me". "My husband and me" is the object of the second sentence, and very ungainly it looks too, but it's properly grammatical.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
spot;1528592 wrote: But so it was, as she used it. The phrase "My husband and I" was the subject of her sentence. On the other hand "My butler brought the morning's post to my husband and me". "My husband and me" is the object of the second sentence, and very ungainly it looks too, but it's properly grammatical.
I sit corrected
I sit corrected
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
Bryn Mawr;1528591 wrote: I thought it was only royalty that took the plural mode of address.
What form of a dress Sam Smith prefers is of no interest to me, I have no idea who or what Sam Smith is.
Sam Smith is a practitioner of one or more of the performing arts. More than that I have little idea.
"They" and "Their" have conventionally been third person plural, yes. The solution being sought is that all the forms in English for the third person singular are unemployable (he she and it) for a person (as opposed to an animal or an inanimate thing) when the person actively chooses to reject being labelled with a gender. To use "he" or "she" insists on a sexual identity, to use "it" has an unacceptable historical resonance as dehumanizing.
Inventing a new word such as, for example, "xe", or duplicating "he or she" or "s/he", is all ugly English.
Finally, there is historical precedent back to 1400 for "they" and "their" in a singular context. The demand that it can only apply to plurals started in the 18th century.
Your training, as mine, is based on this recent insistence. We need a flexible alternative mindset at the moment. Bear in mind that fundamental observation of Samuel Johnson in his Preface: "what makes a word obsolete, more than general agreement to forbear it? and how shall it be continued, when it conveys an offensive idea, or recalled again into the mouths of mankind, when it has once by disuse become unfamiliar, and by unfamiliarity unpleasing".
What form of a dress Sam Smith prefers is of no interest to me, I have no idea who or what Sam Smith is.
Sam Smith is a practitioner of one or more of the performing arts. More than that I have little idea.
"They" and "Their" have conventionally been third person plural, yes. The solution being sought is that all the forms in English for the third person singular are unemployable (he she and it) for a person (as opposed to an animal or an inanimate thing) when the person actively chooses to reject being labelled with a gender. To use "he" or "she" insists on a sexual identity, to use "it" has an unacceptable historical resonance as dehumanizing.
Inventing a new word such as, for example, "xe", or duplicating "he or she" or "s/he", is all ugly English.
Finally, there is historical precedent back to 1400 for "they" and "their" in a singular context. The demand that it can only apply to plurals started in the 18th century.
Your training, as mine, is based on this recent insistence. We need a flexible alternative mindset at the moment. Bear in mind that fundamental observation of Samuel Johnson in his Preface: "what makes a word obsolete, more than general agreement to forbear it? and how shall it be continued, when it conveys an offensive idea, or recalled again into the mouths of mankind, when it has once by disuse become unfamiliar, and by unfamiliarity unpleasing".
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
spot;1528583 wrote: Clearly there is only one way to mitigate this disaster. ForumGarden must become a zero tolerance site and leAd the way toward a brighter future. I propose that all ungrammatical or misspelled posts be marked as such, with corrections, in a forum area set aside for that purpose.
Your wish is my command.
Your wish is my command.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
That was just my anti-homophonia exposing itself.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Grammer Nazis face defeat.
Grammar Nazis are the worstest.