Outrage in Germany

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:25 pm

The 50-year-old man was on a boar hunt with a dozen others near the north-eastern town of Greifswald on Sunday when he was attacked by the male boar.

Witnesses reported that he fired off a shot and then moved into some reeds, where he apparently encountered the pig.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... tacked-him

I for one am horrified.

A law-abiding citizen, strolling in the countryside armed only with a rifle, has had his groin savagely ripped out by a wild skulking invisible beast which has now displayed its cowardly credentials by disappearing into the forest.

Culling's too good for them.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:11 pm

I saw something on this story but can't recall where at present.

A point that was made was that boar have done well in Germany from climate change and their numbers are exploding. Apparently hunting isn't anywhere near controlling them and it's becoming a problem.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:13 pm

chuckle. Seems it was the guardian I saw it...

I think I can see the value of an automatic weapon when hunting boar.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:57 pm

spot;1515429 wrote: The 50-year-old man was on a boar hunt with a dozen others near the north-eastern town of Greifswald on Sunday when he was attacked by the male boar.

Witnesses reported that he fired off a shot and then moved into some reeds, where he apparently encountered the pig.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... tacked-him

I for one am horrified.

A law-abiding citizen, strolling in the countryside armed only with a rifle, has had his groin savagely ripped out by a wild skulking invisible beast which has now displayed its cowardly credentials by disappearing into the forest.

Culling's too good for them.

You are a funny guy:-3

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:59 pm

Clodhopper;1515431 wrote: Apparently hunting isn't anywhere near controlling them and it's becoming a problem.I'm puzzled by the words "control" and "problem" here. You appear to be discussing domestic vermin rather than wildlife.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:06 pm

spot;1515429 wrote:

I for one am horrified.

A law-abiding citizen, strolling in the countryside armed only with a rifle, has had his groin savagely ripped out by a wild skulking invisible beast which has now displayed its cowardly credentials by disappearing into the forest.

Culling's too good for them.

Stop hiding behind a wry sense of humour ...........what is your point ?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:20 pm

Well, if the report is correct then numbers are reaching levels that are beyond the ability of their traditional modern ranges to support. This pushes them into closer contact with humans which can cause damage to crops and increases the risk to people. Boar, I understand, are dangerous and if they are getting into towns in large numbers as the report says happened last year, that puts human lives at risk and yes, I do put a human life ahead of a boar's

I'm not even sure what a boar's natural predators are. Wolf? Bear? Humans are these days, I suppose.

I seem to remember somewhere that back in Mediaeval and Ancient times boar were regarded as the most dangerous beast to hunt, more dangerous than wolves or even bears.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:28 pm

Clodhopper;1515440 wrote: Well, if the report is correct then numbers are reaching levels that are beyond the ability of their traditional modern ranges to support. This pushes them into closer contact with humans which can cause damage to crops and increases the risk to people. Boar, I understand, are dangerous and if they are getting into towns in large numbers as the report says happened last year, that puts human lives at risk and yes, I do put a human life ahead of a boar's

I'm not even sure what a boar's natural predators are. Wolf? Bear? Humans are these days, I suppose.

I seem to remember somewhere that back in Mediaeval and Ancient times boar were regarded as the most dangerous beast to hunt, more dangerous than wolves or even bears.

Wild Pigs have few natural predators. They are mean and nasty critters, when bothered.

They are very good eating, on the other hand.

We used to hunt them in the back wood of Florida (Back when Florida actually had back woods.) A friend used a Black Powder musket for hunting them. He once had a misfire, the boar charged and took most of his calf before another shooter could dispatch the Boar.

Wandering into a thicket when there is a Wild Boar around is really a dumb idea.

Visibility is your only defense.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:11 pm

Now thats interesting.... on the other side of the world and the same is happening here. My boy has only just told me that the boar are increasing in the mullandung. Which is a worry.

Natural predators? Here its wild dogs and hunting dogs. And the good shotty of course. Well maybe a good penetrating bore.

Lizzie · Post by **Lizzie** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:28 am

I've seen programs on wild boar and they are vicious creatures. Numbers being out of balance could down right be scary.

I'm kinda thinking I'm glad i live in Iowa. Our biggest problem is rabbit and deer getting into our garden.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:39 am

I'm not sure how the boar density can get out of balance. If there's too many for the foodstock the size of the next generation plummets. It's self-balancing, that's how nature works. The only thing that interferes with that natural balance is people with rifles killing sufficient of them that the survivors can't repopulate in a single generation but fortunately boars are resilient as far as that goes.

So, given that killing a half million of them a year has no effect on the population density, and the boar numbers are the same as they'd have been with no culling, how is a cull meant to be ethical?

I'll bring up badgers too at this rate.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:21 am

I wasn't aware this was a cull per se, I thought it was hunters hunting, as they do. I've no objection to hunting (or a cull) in itself as long as what is killed is eaten, or at least used constructively. Also, the claim is that killing half a million a year is not enough to keep the population stable (ok, pigs produce big litters) so - especially given the town that was apparently overrun - this has overtones of fighting off an invasion.

Every year they cull the deer in Richmond Park. Necessary to keep the population stable and healthy in the absence of predators. Badger culling is not the same - at least I believe so: They are accused of spreading bovine TB but I gather there is doubt about that and there is no need from the population point of view to cull. The opposite if anything.

I do have a certain sympathy for the farmers, however. If badgers can spread bovine TB then prevention is better than cure and I understand their reluctance to have badgers on their land. It's not an easy situation

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:09 pm

spot;1515464 wrote: I'm not sure how the boar density can get out of balance. If there's too many for the foodstock the size of the next generation plummets. It's self-balancing, that's how nature works. The only thing that interferes with that natural balance is people with rifles killing sufficient of them that the survivors can't repopulate in a single generation but fortunately boars are resilient as far as that goes.

So, given that killing a half million of them a year has no effect on the population density, and the boar numbers are the same as they'd have been with no culling, how is a cull meant to be ethical?

I'll bring up badgers too at this rate.

Introduced species here so im happy to shoot the lot of them.....and the deer with em'.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:11 pm

Actually....stuff it . Include the feral cats and wild dogs as well. Dammit! Lets go on a total shooting spree.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:44 pm

A big issue. I have American squirrels and Asian Parakeets coming in to my garden. I feed them. The parakeets just turn up and I'd be putting that food out anyway, but when the autumn baby squirrel turned up I couldn't resist.

I should kill them.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:46 pm

Clodhopper;1515476 wrote: I do have a certain sympathy for the farmers, however. If badgers can spread bovine TB then prevention is better than cure and I understand their reluctance to have badgers on their land. It's not an easy situation

Do you know what the alternative is? The cattle can each be inoculated, that's what. The reason they're not is that the current EU regulations would then prevent milk products from the inoculated UK herd from entering the EU food chain. You have a choice, cull badgers (which ineffectively does sod-all to reduce TB nationally but allows civil servants to say something's being actively pursued) or inoculate the UK herd and eliminate all UK cattle TB within a year and leave the badgers alone, and get the piss-poor EU regulation changed. You tell me which is the ethical choice. Oddly enough I do have an existing opinion on this one.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:48 pm

magentaflame;1515482 wrote: Introduced species here so im happy to shoot the lot of them.....and the deer with em'.

magentaflame;1515483 wrote: Actually....stuff it . Include the feral cats and wild dogs as well. Dammit! Lets go on a total shooting spree.

I agree entirely. Every word of it.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:03 pm

Although im more than happy the export the deer back to you.Theyre healthy with no deseases..... and its in Europe where they belong anyway....theyll be happier roaming the glens.... that would make queenie (and philly) very happy.

www.gma.vic.gov.au

And find the deer page.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:27 am

spot;1515487 wrote: Do you know what the alternative is? The cattle can each be inoculated, that's what. The reason they're not is that the current EU regulations would then prevent milk products from the inoculated UK herd from entering the EU food chain. You have a choice, cull badgers (which ineffectively does sod-all to reduce TB nationally but allows civil servants to say something's being actively pursued) or inoculate the UK herd and eliminate all UK cattle TB within a year and leave the badgers alone, and get the piss-poor EU regulation changed. You tell me which is the ethical choice. Oddly enough I do have an existing opinion on this one.

I'd be happy with that as a solution.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:48 pm

They tried mixo here . We've still got rabbits.

Mixomato

Micsermo

A disease that kills off rabbits. Hasnt worked. We've got foxes killing everything. Culling is a joke. The christmas tree our Omeo way has fresh kills on it i hear . (For wild dogs)

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:00 am

I know the one. Horrible but there are always survivors and they breed like... rabbits.

It's happening all over, too. Lionfish in the wrong place killing everything, American terrapin and mink in our waterways and countryside, I think they are worried they are getting Anaconda or something in the Everglades and that's just off the top of my head.

I don't have any answers

Myxomatosis.

edit:...um, lol

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:36 pm

Native species should be left alone. It is introduced species that are the problem as it upsets the ecological balance - and that applies to plant life as well.

I, too have little objection to hunting when the prey is to be eaten. However, trophy & blood sport hunting is barbaric & has no place in a civilised world.

As far as the EU rules of milk entering the EU dairy market - no problem there for much longer, especially as we import far more than we export anyway. By cutting down on the imports there will be more of a demand for home produce, which won't be subject to EU rules. It has also been shown that innoculation has absolutely no detrimental effects to milk as this is pasteurised & meat is cooked. We should not be bound to erradicate an already endangered species in order to comply with some foreign bureaucratic regime.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:18 am

Assuming there's anything much left after your brexit ministers have finished. Looks to me that Davis knows he lost the first stage of negotiations, didn't score a single point and is now trying to claim he's been very clever because it isn't legally enforceable.

The EU are saying it is fixed and final. We'll see what the final wording says and how the serious negotiations go. If we have to leave I want a workable deal and I don't think that grinning idiot Davis can deliver. Every time something happens he looks incompetent and now he appears to be claiming to be cleverly duplicitous as well. In public where the other side can hear and before the serious negotiations start. Clever?

Still, we get the government and ministers we all deserve. These are dregs.

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:43 pm

If I might bring to the chamber's attention a report in this morning's Guardian, if I can find it...

Martino Gaudioso was said to have been shot dead by his son, aged 34, during a wild boar hunt in a densely wooded area of the Alburni mountains, near Salerno in Campania, on Saturday afternoon. The men were in an area that is off-limits to hunters.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... say-police

I'm wondering where to start my comment.

The killing, which comes two months after the death of another hunter, who accidentally shot himself in the head, prompted animal rights groups to renew their calls for a ban on hunting. The same calls were made in October last year after 20-year-old Marco Tosti was killed after being mistaken for a wild boar by his hunting companion.

A ban on hunting will scarcely have an effect on "an area that is off-limits to hunters" now, will it. Let's be reasonable. These are people coming to a sticky end solely by reason of their going into the woods with a loaded rifle, it's one step less dangerous than lamping with children. If it gives people with loaded rifles a bad name then I'm all for it.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:42 am

You guys are lucky to have only a boar problem. Due to the rainy season and absolutely NO natural predators...We have a skunk problem. Try going into the bushes after that one.

Post by **spot** » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:30 pm

Lamping, while we're at it, is adequately described at https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/la ... -1-2549362

I cannot imagine why people who shoot in the countryside after dark aren't given harsher sentences than drug dealers.

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:47 am

Thomas Alexander, 66, was hunting near the Ozark mountains when he shot the buck and watched it collapse.

Assuming the animal was dead, Mr Alexander went to check on the body - at which point the deer stood back up and attacked him.

He managed to call his wife, who rang the emergency services, but he was declared dead later in hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50180755

American legislators should urgently instruct the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission to more closely supervise animals within its reserves. The animals in their care are obviously dangerous and untrustworthy.

If the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission were to sedate them prior to the hunting season while tethering them to appropriately mature trees, visitors would no longer be subject to this sort of ambush while engaged in their preferred leisure pursuit.

It's not as if tethering and sedating them could be any less "sporting" then felling them with cordite from a safe distance, after all.

Post by **spot** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:57 am

I note a French hunt has denied involvement by its dog pack in the ripping to death of a pregnant woman. I'll be interested to see what DNA evidence shows, once it's complete.

a notre connaissance, lâ€™accident tragique qui est survenu nâ€™a aucun rapport ni avec nos chiens, ni avec la chasse a courre.

[to our knowledge, the tragic accident that occurred has no relation neither with our dogs, nor with the hunt with hounds.]

https://www.lunion.fr/id110015/article/ ... sse-courre

"To our knowledge", you'll observe. Not to the best of our knowledge. To our certain knowledge.

Picnic time for teddy bears, the little teddy bears are having a lovely time today. Watch them, catch them unawares and see them picnic on their holiday.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:28 am

We have wild boar just about everywhere here in Sweden. I was employed by the nature conservation branch of the forestry for several years and although boar are everywhere, actually spotting one is very rare. They shy away from humans very well and you'd have to be very cleverly seeking them out if you want the slightest chance of seeing them. My thought on the article is that this particular hunter was a poor shot and his biggest mistake was in leaving his position (from the first shot) and going into the reeds where he wouldn't have been able to spot the "wounded" (apparently) boar until it was right upon him. Too late. Wounded boar and those with young can be aggressive, other than that the chance of being attacked by one is just about noll.

Here is a close call:

https://jaktplay.se/video/vildsvinsattack/

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:26 pm

spot;1515487 wrote: Do you know what the alternative is? The cattle can each be inoculated, that's what. The reason they're not is that the current EU regulations would then prevent milk products from the inoculated UK herd from entering the EU food chain. You have a choice, cull badgers (which ineffectively does sod-all to reduce TB nationally but allows civil servants to say something's being actively pursued) or inoculate the UK herd and eliminate all UK cattle TB within a year and leave the badgers alone, and get the piss-poor EU regulation changed. You tell me which is the ethical choice. Oddly enough I do have an existing opinion on this one.

It sounds as though this is now exactly what the UK is about to implement. There will be no more badger culls. I'll find a link when the papers come out.

Here's one: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51753393

Post by **spot** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:54 pm

spot;1527899 wrote: I note a French hunt has denied involvement by its dog pack in the ripping to death of a pregnant woman. I'll be interested to see what DNA evidence shows, once it's complete.

The DNA analysis has apparently still not been performed and is expected to be available by June.

The French court system is utterly inadequate and the judge should be jailed for abusing his position. This is sheer wilful ineptitude. The partner of the dead woman, if I understood the French article correctly, is going on hunger strike with frustration.

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:39 pm

spot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:54 pm spot;1527899 wrote: I note a French hunt has denied involvement by its dog pack in the ripping to death of a pregnant woman. I'll be interested to see what DNA evidence shows, once it's complete.

The DNA analysis has apparently still not been performed and is expected to be available by June.

The French court system is utterly inadequate and the judge should be jailed for abusing his position. This is sheer wilful ineptitude. The partner of the dead woman, if I understood the French article correctly, is going on hunger strike with frustration.

That took twelve months. Why on earth did it take twelve months?

The hunt pack is fully exonerated, none of them were involved in the attack, the dog she was walking was identified.

Suspicion initially fell on the hunting hounds but DNA tests on 67 dogs incriminated her partner’s dog, Curtis, instead, the local hunting club announced.

“The results of the DNA tests definitively confirm the innocence of the dogs,” the Rallye la Passion club said, adding that they showed Curtis to be the killer.

Another source close to the investigation, who asked not to be named, said the terrier’s DNA had been found on Pilarski’s dog bites and added that her DNA had also been found on his leash.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... rtners-dog

Post by **spot** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:32 am

Bear attack: rangers shoot killer grizzly in night vision ambush

The bear is also believed to have entered a chicken coop in town that night, killing and eating several chickens. Authorities hunted it over three days, using helicopters and searchers on the ground and setting out five large traps made from steel culverts and baited with roadkill. “Based on the size of the bear, the colour of the bear and the nature of the chicken coop raids, we’re confident we’ve got the offending bear,” Lemon said.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ion-ambush

They want applause?

Had one "Montana wildlife official" trailed the bear and killed it with a Bowie knife before it knew it was being attacked at all then yes, I'd grudgingly admit he was competent to administer wildlife, but this US Marine-style night-vision assault under air cover? Seriously? I'm surprised they had no APCs deployed. I'm surprised they weren't using grenades.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:17 pm

spot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:32 am
Bear attack: rangers shoot killer grizzly in night vision ambush

The bear is also believed to have entered a chicken coop in town that night, killing and eating several chickens. Authorities hunted it over three days, using helicopters and searchers on the ground and setting out five large traps made from steel culverts and baited with roadkill. “Based on the size of the bear, the colour of the bear and the nature of the chicken coop raids, we’re confident we’ve got the offending bear,” Lemon said.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ion-ambush

They want applause?

Had one "Montana wildlife official" trailed the bear and killed it with a Bowie knife before it knew it was being attacked at all then yes, I'd grudgingly admit he was competent to administer wildlife, but this US Marine-style night-vision assault under air cover? Seriously? I'm surprised they had no APCs deployed. I'm surprised they weren't using grenades.

Looks to me just like I would expect from professionals.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:17 pm

tude dog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:17 pm Looks to me just like I would expect from professionals.

I'm not at all surprised. I reckon it makes you part of the problem rather than the solution though.

Mankind has dominion over the animals, presumably. Something to do with Noah, if I recall.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:47 am

spot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:17 pm
tude dog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:17 pm Looks to me just like I would expect from professionals.
I'm not at all surprised. I reckon it makes you part of the problem rather than the solution though.

Mankind has dominion over the animals, presumably. Something to do with Noah, if I recall.

I dunno about Noah and dominion over animals.

The fact is it is up to people to regulate animals, not animals regulating people.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:01 am

tude dog wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:47 am I dunno about Noah and dominion over animals.

Seriously??

And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=KJV

Awful attitude problems, those people who wrote down that God ever made such a pronouncement.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:44 am

Pigs, bears, and Noah, Oh lordy.

Yes spot, pigs multiply and are fruitful on their own.

This is an old article.

Kansas battle to reduce feral hog population seems to be working

Tom Berding remembers when crop damage by feral hogs was a dominant conversation in rural Cowley County.

A few years ago, one farmer had to re-plant 40 acres of corn after wild pigs ate the seed. Another lost acres of soybeans to ravenous herds. The damage totaled thousands of dollars per farmer.

No more. Berding has gone from having herds in his driveway to not seeing even a track for more than a year.

“That’s all good news,” he said. “They’re no longer a topic of conversation in the coffee shops.”

That’s because Kansas continues to be one of the nation’s most aggressive states at eradicating feral swine, which can also carry diseases that have been transferred to livestock, pets and humans. To insure parts of the state stays feral pig-free, Kansas-based biologists are also hammering wild hog populations just south of the Oklahoma border.

https://www.kansas.com/sports/outdoors/ ... 36670.html

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:30 am

Nothing about the Lord or pigs.

Kansas stands out in control of feral pigs

Wild pigs are responsible for billions of dollars in American agricultural damages. They can bring deadly diseases to domestic stock and humans. With two litters a year their populations can grow exponentially.

But they aren’t doing so well in Kansas, the state with the best success at controlling populations of the 40-plus states or provinces with feral swine.

To date at least 12 Kansas populations have been eradicated. Some numbered over a thousand. The only established population within the state is confined to the Bourbon and Linn county areas. Every year herds are eradicated as they come into Kansas from Oklahoma.

The killing is mostly done by the USDA biologists. They give a ton of credit to their biggest allies — Kansas landowners.

“Our whole success is due to the facts that Kansas farmer and ranchers immediately recognize how damaging these pigs are and how effective we can be on their properties,” says Curran Salter, a USDA feral swine biologist based in Kansas.

https://www.farmprogress.com/hog/kansas ... feral-pigs

Meanwhile, we celebrate our pig history. A marker in a park near me.

Post by **spot** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:16 pm

tude dog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:30 am Meanwhile, we celebrate our pig history. A marker in a park near me.

The thing is, I don't give a toss about domesticated vertebrates. They could all be culled tomorrow and banned the day after for all I care, the world would be better off without them. I might except trained working dogs just to show I can compromise.

What matters is adequate suitable environments for sufficient wild species to survive. It's not much to ask. It has nothing at all to do with pigs. What it's about is the deluded people who think humans have dominion over all animals because God said so, followed closely by those who think humans have dominion over all animals regardless of divine authority.

It's the topic of this thread.

Half the existing terrestrial megafauna species of the planet have been exterminated by humans since we emerged from Africa. I do not want to see that repeated, it's time we reversed what we're doing.

As for your "pig history" problem I merely note that pigs are an introduced species to the Americas having arrived, along with a multitude of other problems, only after Columbus exposed the place to European settlers. You brought them, you are the problem, you fix it.

Some people are at least trying... UN sets out Paris-style plan to cut extinction rate by factor of 10

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:25 pm

spot wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:16 pm
tude dog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:30 am Meanwhile, we celebrate our pig history. A marker in a park near me.
The thing is, I don't give a toss about domesticated vertebrates. They could all be culled tomorrow and banned the day after for all I care, the world would be better off without them. I might except trained working dogs just to show I can compromise.

What matters is adequate suitable environments for sufficient wild species to survive. It's not much to ask. It has nothing at all to do with pigs. What it's about is the deluded people who think humans have dominion over all animals because God said so, followed closely by those who think humans have dominion over all animals regardless of divine authority.

It's the topic of this thread.

Half the existing terrestrial megafauna species of the planet have been exterminated by humans since we emerged from Africa. I do not want to see that repeated, it's time we reversed what we're doing.

As for your "pig history" problem I merely note that pigs are an introduced species to the Americas having arrived, along with a multitude of other problems, only after Columbus exposed the place to European settlers. You brought them, you are the problem, you fix it.

Some people are at least trying... UN sets out Paris-style plan to cut extinction rate by factor of 10

The reason I went to pigs since it was what started the thread and I have zero interest in Noah and dominion of all critters.

Like it or not people are the dominate species on earth.

Post by **spot** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:47 am

tude dog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:25 pmThe reason I went to pigs since it was what started the thread and I have zero interest in Noah and dominion of all critters.

Was it not a wild boar which started the thread? I thought it was wild, not domesticated. I had thought there was a difference between a native wild species as in the German forests and an introduced alien domesticated species as in the Americas. I seem not to be very good at putting my facts across but no European ever carried a wild pig across the Atlantic.

I thought I'd covered your position within "those who think humans have dominion over all animals regardless of divine authority."

Discussing which is the dominant species on earth in the context of deliberate and avoidable species extinction is like discussing which Mafia family is most effective in New York. One might well come up with the right answer while still despising the scoundrels who top the list.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:36 am

spot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:47 am
tude dog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:25 pmThe reason I went to pigs since it was what started the thread and I have zero interest in Noah and dominion of all critters.
Was it not a wild boar which started the thread? I thought it was wild, not domesticated. I had thought there was a difference between a native wild species as in the German forests and an introduced alien domesticated species as in the Americas. I seem not to be very good at putting my facts across but no European ever carried a wild pig across the Atlantic.

I thought I'd covered your position within "those who think humans have dominion over all animals regardless of divine authority."

Discussing which is the dominant species on earth in the context of deliberate and avoidable species extinction is like discussing which Mafia family is most effective in New York. One might well come up with the right answer while still despising the scoundrels who top the list.

Fair enough. Not like we have any choice in this matter.

I have a voice in my state/country, zero in the rest of the world.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:10 am

What would anyone do with a goat?

Hawaii is giving away 700 pesky goats to try to save a historic park

Hawaii is giving away 700 pesky goats to try to save a historic park
Sudiksha Kochi
USA TODAY

Hawaiian officials will hold a lottery to distribute goats to the public in an effort to preserve a national park.

According to the Honolulu Star-Advertiser, the Department of Land and Natural Resources will hold the lottery in an attempt to give away the animals that are considered an invasive species and have overrun the Puʻuhonua o Honaunau National Historical Park.

Officials are expecting to remove at least 700 goats from the park.

The park, on the west coast of Hawaii island, has cultural and historical significance. According to the park's website, the Puʻuhonua, considered a place of refuge, protected defeated warriors, as well as civilians, during times of battle.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2 ... 937352002/

I would take it to a meat processor. Never ate goat before.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:50 am

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:24 am

Goats escape, turkeys don't mind.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:36 am

Does the wild turkey still exist? And id so, where and to what extent?

I know I could look it up but this is conversation.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:16 pm

spot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:36 am Does the wild turkey still exist? And id so, where and to what extent?

I know I could look it up but this is conversation.

I did double-check, and turkeys are native to North America.

https://www.nwtf.org/hunt/wild-turkey-basics/habitat

Post by **spot** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:09 am

tude dog wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:16 pm
spot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:36 am Does the wild turkey still exist? And id so, where and to what extent?

I know I could look it up but this is conversation.
I did double-check, and turkeys are native to North America.

And indeed their numbers are rising. They went through a bottleneck from over-hunting eighty years ago but since then they've had space and legal protection. Wikipedia notes "Game managers estimate that the entire population of wild turkeys in the United States was as low as 30,000 by the late 1930s".

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:38 pm

Turkey Information

Wild turkeys were reintroduced into Kansas in the 1960s, and the program has been a great success. Today, huntable populations of turkeys exist in nearly every county. The Rio Grande subspecies dominates the western two-thirds of the state. Low numbers in the southwest provide only limited hunting. Hybrid Rio Grande/Eastern birds are found in the northcentral region. The Eastern subspecies is common in the northeast and far southeast regions, where numbers have grown tremendously in recent years.

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/posti ... 9314c412f3