hoppy;1204570 wrote: That's merely your opinion.
All of it, or just the bit about the horrors of decades-long imprisonment?
I think they're all justifiable opinions. Given a choice of beheading or lethal injection I can't quite see you choosing the last option either.
Homosexuality
Homosexuality
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Homosexuality
spot;1204571 wrote: All of it, or just the bit about the horrors of decades-long imprisonment?
I think they're all justifiable opinions. Given a choice of beheading or lethal injection I can't quite see you choosing the last option either.
Really? That would be my choice over beheading. Firing squad would be first.
I think they're all justifiable opinions. Given a choice of beheading or lethal injection I can't quite see you choosing the last option either.
Really? That would be my choice over beheading. Firing squad would be first.
Homosexuality
hoppy;1204579 wrote: Really? That would be my choice over beheading. Firing squad would be first.
Perhaps you think beheading hurts.
More reasonable people might consider it far and away the most humane method of execution.
Perhaps you think beheading hurts.
More reasonable people might consider it far and away the most humane method of execution.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Homosexuality
spot;1204604 wrote: Perhaps you think beheading hurts.
More reasonable people might consider it far and away the most humane method of execution.
I don't know if beheading hurts or not. But I been stabbed once. I didn't like it much. Been shot twice. First time on purpose, second accidently. Neither actually hurt that much. First time bullet missed bones or it might have hurt bad. Second time bullet hit me in the head. Knocked me down and gave me a headache but bounced off. It was about spent by the time it hit me. I'll still take firing squad.
More reasonable people might consider it far and away the most humane method of execution.
I don't know if beheading hurts or not. But I been stabbed once. I didn't like it much. Been shot twice. First time on purpose, second accidently. Neither actually hurt that much. First time bullet missed bones or it might have hurt bad. Second time bullet hit me in the head. Knocked me down and gave me a headache but bounced off. It was about spent by the time it hit me. I'll still take firing squad.
Homosexuality
hoppy;1204621 wrote: I'll still take firing squad.As did Maximillian.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Homosexuality
buttercup;1203701 wrote: Ok here's one to start you off but to be honest i did not really want to talk about terrorism as such. More how common is homosexuality.
Henryk M. Broders Homepage - Jamie Glazov: The Sexual Rage Behind Islamic Terror
It seem by what is available via books, magazines, internet that homosexuality is a common theme anywhere you go. So what if it's banned by the Bible or Qur'an.......nobody cares unless they have deep religous or personal morals. I'm not gay bashing it's just doesn't fit in my beliefs and if one is a true Muslim, they don't either.
During the first Gulf War we heard about muslims that practiced homosexuality openly and we were not to comment on it at all while there.
Sura 7 (Al-A’raf: The Heights), ayat 80–84
7:81 You lust after men instead of women. Truly, you are a degenerate people.â€
Henryk M. Broders Homepage - Jamie Glazov: The Sexual Rage Behind Islamic Terror
It seem by what is available via books, magazines, internet that homosexuality is a common theme anywhere you go. So what if it's banned by the Bible or Qur'an.......nobody cares unless they have deep religous or personal morals. I'm not gay bashing it's just doesn't fit in my beliefs and if one is a true Muslim, they don't either.
During the first Gulf War we heard about muslims that practiced homosexuality openly and we were not to comment on it at all while there.
Sura 7 (Al-A’raf: The Heights), ayat 80–84
7:81 You lust after men instead of women. Truly, you are a degenerate people.â€
Those who made the ultimate sacrifice thought YOU were worth dying for. Remember THEM
I'm Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Christian, and a proud Veteran. Therefore, my government has labeled me a "right-wing extremist", a militia member, and a possible domestic terrorist
I'm Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Christian, and a proud Veteran. Therefore, my government has labeled me a "right-wing extremist", a militia member, and a possible domestic terrorist
Homosexuality
Why does Islam forbid lesbianism and homosexuality?
Praise be to Allaah.
The Muslim should not doubt, even for an instant, that what Allaah has prescribed is wise. He should know that there is great wisdom in what Allaah has commanded and what He has forbidden; it is the straight path and is the only way in which man can be safe and at peace, protecting his honour, his mind and his health, in accordance with the natural disposition (fitrah) with which Allaah has created man.
Some heretics have tried to attack Islam and its rulings; they have denounced divorce and plural marriage and permitted alcohol. Those who look at the state of their societies will see the state of misery which those societies have reached.
When they rejected divorce, murder took its place. When they rejected plural marriage, men started to take mistresses instead. When they allowed alcohol, all kinds of shameful and immoral actions became widespread.
They (gays and lesbians) both go against the natural disposition (fitrah) which Allaah has created in mankind – and also in animals – whereby the male is inclined towards the female, and vice versa.
Whoever goes against that goes against the natural disposition of mankind, the fitrah.
The spread of homosexuality has caused man diseases which neither the east nor the west can deny exist because of them. Even if the only result of this perversion was AIDS – which attacks the immune system in humans – that would be enough.
It also causes the breakup of the family and leads people to give up their work and study because they are preoccupied with these perversions.
Since the prohibition has come from his Lord, the Muslim should not wait until medicine proves that harm befalls the one who does that which Allaah has forbidden. Rather he must believe firmly that Allaah only prescribes that which is good for people, and these modern discoveries should only increase his certainty and confidence in the greatness of Allaah’s wisdom.
Ibn al-Qayyim said:
Both of them – fornication and homosexuality – involve immorality that goes against the wisdom of Allaah’s creation and commandment. For homosexuality involves innumerable evil and harms, and the one to whom it is done would be better off being killed than having this done to him, because after that he will become so evil and so corrupt that there can be no hope of his being reformed, and all good is lost for him, and he will no longer feel any shame before Allaah or before His creation. The semen of the one who did that to him will act as a poison on his body and soul. The scholars differed as to whether the one to whom it is done will ever enter Paradise. There are two opinions which I heard Shaykh al-Islam (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrate.â€
(al-Jawaab al-Kaafi, p. 115).
2. Lesbianism means one woman doing to another something like that which a man does to a woman. Homosexuality means having intercourse with males in the back passage. This was the action of the accursed people of the Prophet of Allaah Loot (peace be upon him). In sharee’ah terminology it refers to inserting the tip of the penis into the anus of a male.
What is mentioned concerning these actions in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:
A – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?
Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)’â€
[al-A’raaf 7:80-81]
B – “Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Loot (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the nightâ€
[al-Qamar 54:34 – interpretation of the meaning]
C – “And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?â€
[al-A’raaf 7:80 – interpretation of the meaning]
And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘You commit Al‑Faahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)’â€
[al-‘Ankaboot 29:28]
D – “And (remember) Loot (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practised Al‑Khabaa’ith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)â€
[al-Anbiya’ 21:74 – interpretation of the meaning]
E – “And (remember) Loot (Lot)! When he said to his people, ‘Do you commit Al‑Faahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen)
Do you practise your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.’
There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ‘Drive out the family of Loot (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!’
So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.
And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warnedâ€
[al-Naml 27:54-58 – interpretation of the meaning]
These verses refer to the punishment that befell the people of Loot. With regard to the rulings on them:
F – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning]:
“And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent (promise Allaah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allaah is Ever All-Forgiving (the One Who forgives and accepts repentance), (and He is) Most Mercifulâ€
[al-Nisa’ 4:16]
Ibn Katheer said:
“The words of Allaah ‘And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both’ mean, those who commit immoral actions, punish them both. Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him), Sa’eed ibn Jubayr and others said: By condemning them, shaming them and hitting them with shoes. This was the ruling until Allaah abrogated it and replaced it with whipping and stoning. ‘Ikrimah, ‘Ata, al-Hasan and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Katheer said: This was revealed concerning a man and woman who commit fornication. Al-Saddi said, it was revealed concerning young people before they get married. Mujaahid said: it was revealed concerning two men if they admit it bluntly; a hint is not sufficient – as if he was referring to homosexuality. And Allaah knows best.â€
(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/463).
G – It was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him): “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘There is nothing I fear for my ummah more than the deed of the people of Loot.’â€
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1457; Ibn Maajah, 2563. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 1552).
H – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “… cursed is the one who has intercourse with an animal, cursed is the one who does the action of the people of Loot.â€
(Narrated by Ahmad, 1878. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 5891).
I – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever you find doing the deed of the people of Loot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.â€
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1456; Abu Dawood, 4462; Ibn Maajah, 2561. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 6589).
And Allaah knows best.
Praise be to Allaah.
The Muslim should not doubt, even for an instant, that what Allaah has prescribed is wise. He should know that there is great wisdom in what Allaah has commanded and what He has forbidden; it is the straight path and is the only way in which man can be safe and at peace, protecting his honour, his mind and his health, in accordance with the natural disposition (fitrah) with which Allaah has created man.
Some heretics have tried to attack Islam and its rulings; they have denounced divorce and plural marriage and permitted alcohol. Those who look at the state of their societies will see the state of misery which those societies have reached.
When they rejected divorce, murder took its place. When they rejected plural marriage, men started to take mistresses instead. When they allowed alcohol, all kinds of shameful and immoral actions became widespread.
They (gays and lesbians) both go against the natural disposition (fitrah) which Allaah has created in mankind – and also in animals – whereby the male is inclined towards the female, and vice versa.
Whoever goes against that goes against the natural disposition of mankind, the fitrah.
The spread of homosexuality has caused man diseases which neither the east nor the west can deny exist because of them. Even if the only result of this perversion was AIDS – which attacks the immune system in humans – that would be enough.
It also causes the breakup of the family and leads people to give up their work and study because they are preoccupied with these perversions.
Since the prohibition has come from his Lord, the Muslim should not wait until medicine proves that harm befalls the one who does that which Allaah has forbidden. Rather he must believe firmly that Allaah only prescribes that which is good for people, and these modern discoveries should only increase his certainty and confidence in the greatness of Allaah’s wisdom.
Ibn al-Qayyim said:
Both of them – fornication and homosexuality – involve immorality that goes against the wisdom of Allaah’s creation and commandment. For homosexuality involves innumerable evil and harms, and the one to whom it is done would be better off being killed than having this done to him, because after that he will become so evil and so corrupt that there can be no hope of his being reformed, and all good is lost for him, and he will no longer feel any shame before Allaah or before His creation. The semen of the one who did that to him will act as a poison on his body and soul. The scholars differed as to whether the one to whom it is done will ever enter Paradise. There are two opinions which I heard Shaykh al-Islam (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrate.â€
(al-Jawaab al-Kaafi, p. 115).
2. Lesbianism means one woman doing to another something like that which a man does to a woman. Homosexuality means having intercourse with males in the back passage. This was the action of the accursed people of the Prophet of Allaah Loot (peace be upon him). In sharee’ah terminology it refers to inserting the tip of the penis into the anus of a male.
What is mentioned concerning these actions in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:
A – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?
Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)’â€
[al-A’raaf 7:80-81]
B – “Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Loot (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the nightâ€
[al-Qamar 54:34 – interpretation of the meaning]
C – “And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?â€
[al-A’raaf 7:80 – interpretation of the meaning]
And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘You commit Al‑Faahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)’â€
[al-‘Ankaboot 29:28]
D – “And (remember) Loot (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practised Al‑Khabaa’ith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)â€
[al-Anbiya’ 21:74 – interpretation of the meaning]
E – “And (remember) Loot (Lot)! When he said to his people, ‘Do you commit Al‑Faahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen)
Do you practise your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.’
There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ‘Drive out the family of Loot (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!’
So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.
And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warnedâ€
[al-Naml 27:54-58 – interpretation of the meaning]
These verses refer to the punishment that befell the people of Loot. With regard to the rulings on them:
F – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning]:
“And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent (promise Allaah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allaah is Ever All-Forgiving (the One Who forgives and accepts repentance), (and He is) Most Mercifulâ€
[al-Nisa’ 4:16]
Ibn Katheer said:
“The words of Allaah ‘And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both’ mean, those who commit immoral actions, punish them both. Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him), Sa’eed ibn Jubayr and others said: By condemning them, shaming them and hitting them with shoes. This was the ruling until Allaah abrogated it and replaced it with whipping and stoning. ‘Ikrimah, ‘Ata, al-Hasan and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Katheer said: This was revealed concerning a man and woman who commit fornication. Al-Saddi said, it was revealed concerning young people before they get married. Mujaahid said: it was revealed concerning two men if they admit it bluntly; a hint is not sufficient – as if he was referring to homosexuality. And Allaah knows best.â€
(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/463).
G – It was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him): “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘There is nothing I fear for my ummah more than the deed of the people of Loot.’â€
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1457; Ibn Maajah, 2563. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 1552).
H – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “… cursed is the one who has intercourse with an animal, cursed is the one who does the action of the people of Loot.â€
(Narrated by Ahmad, 1878. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 5891).
I – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever you find doing the deed of the people of Loot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.â€
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1456; Abu Dawood, 4462; Ibn Maajah, 2561. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 6589).
And Allaah knows best.
Homosexuality
hoppy;1204366 wrote: When our founders came here from england, they didn't bring all of England's perversions with them.
What can't you post anything without bashing the English?(in a non sexual way of course) I'm sure spot will overlook the anti-english sentiments. Besides he's welsh so no jokes about sheep please.
Joking aside the pilgrim fathers were a bunch of sanctimonious, interfering puritans that were so appalling no one could stand them. By the time they were half way across the rest of the passengers and the crew were wanting to throw them overboard. The religious freedom they wanted for themselves was at the expense of everybody elses. That characteristic does seem to be endemic in parts of American society. I am holier than thou you will live life the way I tell you it should be.
Left to the religious America would not be a free society-thankfully from your point of view liberals have won the day and hopefully will always prevail.
Why is it posts about homosexuality and the sexual behaviour of others are always in the religious section? The only people who get really worked up about it are those of a puritanical disposition be they christian or islamic.
How about practising some of that tolerance that both faiths are supposed to advocate rather than this destructive desire to ram beliefs based on the writings of a primitive desert people down the throats of everybody.
You live in a society that tolerates and allows you to practise your religion. How about reciprocating and leaving people alone to get on with their lives as they see fit. So long as they don't try and get you to join in what is the problem? Neither religion is in the position to claim the moral high ground when it comes to setting an example.
What can't you post anything without bashing the English?(in a non sexual way of course) I'm sure spot will overlook the anti-english sentiments. Besides he's welsh so no jokes about sheep please.
Joking aside the pilgrim fathers were a bunch of sanctimonious, interfering puritans that were so appalling no one could stand them. By the time they were half way across the rest of the passengers and the crew were wanting to throw them overboard. The religious freedom they wanted for themselves was at the expense of everybody elses. That characteristic does seem to be endemic in parts of American society. I am holier than thou you will live life the way I tell you it should be.
Left to the religious America would not be a free society-thankfully from your point of view liberals have won the day and hopefully will always prevail.
Why is it posts about homosexuality and the sexual behaviour of others are always in the religious section? The only people who get really worked up about it are those of a puritanical disposition be they christian or islamic.
How about practising some of that tolerance that both faiths are supposed to advocate rather than this destructive desire to ram beliefs based on the writings of a primitive desert people down the throats of everybody.
You live in a society that tolerates and allows you to practise your religion. How about reciprocating and leaving people alone to get on with their lives as they see fit. So long as they don't try and get you to join in what is the problem? Neither religion is in the position to claim the moral high ground when it comes to setting an example.
Homosexuality
Does tolerance really exist? Religions are often intolerant of each other. Races certainly are. Political parties too. Why not sexual preference?
Homosexuality
hoppy;1234389 wrote: Does tolerance really exist? Religions are often intolerant of each other. Races certainly are. Political parties too. Why not sexual preference?
It does but only truly amongst those that aren't convinced they are somehow morally or intellectually superior in the first place and have an open mind-bit difficult of you believe there is only one true religion and it's yours. It may surprise you but I I have an intense animus towards religion- but I can tolerate religion and the religious but find bigotry, especially when wrapped up in the velvet glove of religion unappealing.
Homosexuality is a lifestyle I can't understand and don't actually have a lot of sympathy for, but I know homosexuals who are decent human beings who wouldn't hurt a fly and I also know religious people who would not advocate violence in any form and regret that some of their followers feel justified in beating the crap out of someone just because they do not conform to the norm as they see it (for that was not their message which is one of love even for those benighted souls who have not seen the light or who pursue a lifestyle they don't approve of) but if only those people changed they would not be the victims of attack in the first place and perhaps find it in their hearts to forgive those who attacked them.
All the posters here quote the bible or the koran to justify hate. It seems you need religion to justify hatred and violence towards those who committed no crime against their fellows except to be different.
It does but only truly amongst those that aren't convinced they are somehow morally or intellectually superior in the first place and have an open mind-bit difficult of you believe there is only one true religion and it's yours. It may surprise you but I I have an intense animus towards religion- but I can tolerate religion and the religious but find bigotry, especially when wrapped up in the velvet glove of religion unappealing.
Homosexuality is a lifestyle I can't understand and don't actually have a lot of sympathy for, but I know homosexuals who are decent human beings who wouldn't hurt a fly and I also know religious people who would not advocate violence in any form and regret that some of their followers feel justified in beating the crap out of someone just because they do not conform to the norm as they see it (for that was not their message which is one of love even for those benighted souls who have not seen the light or who pursue a lifestyle they don't approve of) but if only those people changed they would not be the victims of attack in the first place and perhaps find it in their hearts to forgive those who attacked them.
All the posters here quote the bible or the koran to justify hate. It seems you need religion to justify hatred and violence towards those who committed no crime against their fellows except to be different.