koan;746787 wrote: opening to general discussion, the thread formerly called "Jester and Koan"
sounds "JEST" fine
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
I have Muslim friends who are peaceloving, and Christian friends who are not. People have always interpreted "scripture" for their own ends, hijacked words, twisted them, taken them out of context. All these scriptures were written by human mediums anyway, even if you do argue for divine inspiration. The Old Testament has some very violent bits. The New Testament, and in particular the words ascribed to Jesus, are mostly not like this. Blessed are the Peacemakers, etc etc. Still, Christians have been quite capable of murdering and maiming in the name of God. It is my opinion that the Koran is much more encouraging of violence and hatred than the New Testament. I find it hard to see Islam as a religion of peace. I'd very much like to be proved wrong. But not by forum chat. By history.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
BTS;746565 wrote: So where is the cheap shot?
Quoting the Quran is a cheap shot?
How is that a cheap shot?
and Why can't one quote their book of beliefs if that is what you are saying?
The cheep shots are those demonising all Muslims that we see in the public media and from politicians almost daily.
I'll get back to you about the other when I have more time.
Quoting the Quran is a cheap shot?
How is that a cheap shot?
and Why can't one quote their book of beliefs if that is what you are saying?
The cheep shots are those demonising all Muslims that we see in the public media and from politicians almost daily.
I'll get back to you about the other when I have more time.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;746719 wrote: Try me. I'm fairly certain I can, but more details about this particular alleged attack would be helpful.
My point exactly - you condemn it as an out and out lie without even knowing what the case involves. Without knowing the details of the alleged attack how can you possible have states as an item of fact that it was a lie?
My point exactly - you condemn it as an out and out lie without even knowing what the case involves. Without knowing the details of the alleged attack how can you possible have states as an item of fact that it was a lie?
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lemon_and_mint
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?
I have many muslim friends and have actually lived amongst them, and been involved in their daily lives,
They have explained to me that there are two different types, sunni and Shiite, I forget which is which, but they are different and their views on jihad are different.
All those I know are peaceful and respectful of other people and other religions.
They have explained to me that there are two different types, sunni and Shiite, I forget which is which, but they are different and their views on jihad are different.
All those I know are peaceful and respectful of other people and other religions.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
And now for my 2 cents worth!!!
Both my daughters attend school with children from Muslim families and they count these children amongst their friends. Play dates have taken place. I enjoy the company of their families. They are friendly and inclusive to both my children and myself.
There appears to be a lot of generalisations being made here. You cannot generalise or give only one label to a huge number of people through out the world simply based on one common factor. That would be like saying all Kiwis are ignorant idiots that only wear black singlets and gumboots or that all Americans are arrogant. Not the case in either scenario!!
Whether you look at the Koran or the bible, there is a certain degree of violence with them, whether you want to admit to that or not. There are always people who take their beliefs to extremes. Where as many others have a more moderated view.
There is no one right way or any way of measuring (without bias) what religion is more or less violent than another.
Religion has been the leading cause for violence and war throughout history and indeed today in my opinion. That can't be blamed on any one religion, most have been involved in one way or another.
It could be said that if EVERYONE in EVERY religion practised tolerance and respect of each others differences, rather than going to great lengths to convert or wipe out "the heathen masses" (of whatever variety) the world would indeed be a better place.
Hate and intolerance breed more hate and intolerance whatever religion comes into it.
There will always be people who kill for their cause.
Lets try to work with the people we know and come across in our lives to foster understanding.
There are many peaceful parts to Islam and for most of the people who follow it, just as there is for Christianity and other religions.
I enjoy the company of most people that I have contact with. Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Pagan....... and I will continue to do so. People I don't like, it is because of their behaviour not their religion.
I don't have umpteen dozen official documents to support my statement here. It comes from my own knowledge, perspectives and beliefs. It also comes down to exercising some common sense.
Both my daughters attend school with children from Muslim families and they count these children amongst their friends. Play dates have taken place. I enjoy the company of their families. They are friendly and inclusive to both my children and myself.
There appears to be a lot of generalisations being made here. You cannot generalise or give only one label to a huge number of people through out the world simply based on one common factor. That would be like saying all Kiwis are ignorant idiots that only wear black singlets and gumboots or that all Americans are arrogant. Not the case in either scenario!!
Whether you look at the Koran or the bible, there is a certain degree of violence with them, whether you want to admit to that or not. There are always people who take their beliefs to extremes. Where as many others have a more moderated view.
There is no one right way or any way of measuring (without bias) what religion is more or less violent than another.
Religion has been the leading cause for violence and war throughout history and indeed today in my opinion. That can't be blamed on any one religion, most have been involved in one way or another.
It could be said that if EVERYONE in EVERY religion practised tolerance and respect of each others differences, rather than going to great lengths to convert or wipe out "the heathen masses" (of whatever variety) the world would indeed be a better place.
Hate and intolerance breed more hate and intolerance whatever religion comes into it.
There will always be people who kill for their cause.
Lets try to work with the people we know and come across in our lives to foster understanding.
There are many peaceful parts to Islam and for most of the people who follow it, just as there is for Christianity and other religions.
I enjoy the company of most people that I have contact with. Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Pagan....... and I will continue to do so. People I don't like, it is because of their behaviour not their religion.
I don't have umpteen dozen official documents to support my statement here. It comes from my own knowledge, perspectives and beliefs. It also comes down to exercising some common sense.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;867557 wrote: Welcome to the Garden Kiwi!
When I see a large portion of the individuals in Islam denouce the violence and join in the effort to stop it, I'll believe the muslums want thier reputation to be more peaceful, until then I will treat any individual by thier actions toward me and respond appropriatly and cordially untill I'm treated differently.
Try reversing that - when you see a large proportion of individuals in Islam involved in the violence then believe Islam to be a religion of violence.
When all is said and done, you are condemning a very large number of people for the actions of a few.
When I see a large portion of the individuals in Islam denouce the violence and join in the effort to stop it, I'll believe the muslums want thier reputation to be more peaceful, until then I will treat any individual by thier actions toward me and respond appropriatly and cordially untill I'm treated differently.
Try reversing that - when you see a large proportion of individuals in Islam involved in the violence then believe Islam to be a religion of violence.
When all is said and done, you are condemning a very large number of people for the actions of a few.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;869098 wrote: No sir, I'm not condemening anyone. If an aspect of their religious ideology advocates violence, and a portion of the religon is violent the burden to change is on the religious of that group. They need to chaneg thier image or keep beign known as violent. Since the behavior is extreme it only takes a little to be known by the whole lump.
My attitude isnt one of condemnation towards them, I just dont trust them in large groups with my safety, nor that of my chidlrens based on how they are known. Thier individual actions still dictate my need to return the violence for self defense. I havnt advocated violence to all Muslums, just all violent ones, or any violent people for that matter.
An eye for an eye? Major potions of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, are as violent, or more violent, than anything in the Koran.
My attitude isnt one of condemnation towards them, I just dont trust them in large groups with my safety, nor that of my chidlrens based on how they are known. Thier individual actions still dictate my need to return the violence for self defense. I havnt advocated violence to all Muslums, just all violent ones, or any violent people for that matter.
An eye for an eye? Major potions of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, are as violent, or more violent, than anything in the Koran.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;869125 wrote: Then why is Islam more violent than any other religion in human history?
That is in your opinion. There is no way to prove or disprove this sort of generalised statement.
It comes down to it being an opinion, not necessarily a statement of fact.
That is in your opinion. There is no way to prove or disprove this sort of generalised statement.
It comes down to it being an opinion, not necessarily a statement of fact.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;869157 wrote: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Lets start here.
That website doesn't prove a thing except that there are a number of people who share a similar very generalised, warped perception. The research in it doesn't stack up, it is not measured against anything, the information in their tends to appeal to those who are in a phrase "anti Islam extremists" It is biased.
You cannot write off every single Muslim on the actions of a few. I am pleased to have Islam friends and I am also pleased that they haven't judged me because I am a Christian but for who I am as an individual.
Someone else here has said that this website has been discredited. I'm glad that other people can see that it is nothing but a group of people who have started own their own " I hate Islam" group.
So it is issues that have been presented in a particular way by people who share a particular opinion. The website is still generalising that all people who follow Islam are basically terrorists. Untrue.
Lets start here.
That website doesn't prove a thing except that there are a number of people who share a similar very generalised, warped perception. The research in it doesn't stack up, it is not measured against anything, the information in their tends to appeal to those who are in a phrase "anti Islam extremists" It is biased.
You cannot write off every single Muslim on the actions of a few. I am pleased to have Islam friends and I am also pleased that they haven't judged me because I am a Christian but for who I am as an individual.
Someone else here has said that this website has been discredited. I'm glad that other people can see that it is nothing but a group of people who have started own their own " I hate Islam" group.
So it is issues that have been presented in a particular way by people who share a particular opinion. The website is still generalising that all people who follow Islam are basically terrorists. Untrue.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;869125 wrote: Then why is Islam more violent than any other religion in human history?
It is not.
Think of the crusades and the actions of the crusaders to both other Christians and to the Sarascens.
Think of the Inquisition and their slaughter of "heretics".
Just two examples of Christian behaviour at an equivalent point in their history.
It is not.
Think of the crusades and the actions of the crusaders to both other Christians and to the Sarascens.
Think of the Inquisition and their slaughter of "heretics".
Just two examples of Christian behaviour at an equivalent point in their history.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;869176 wrote: This site hsan't been discredited, soem one just said it has been discredited. The site takes and records news article eveytime islam is violent. The sheer number of attacks, number of killed mame'd etc, is an excellnt accunting of the violence of Islam.
If you want to disagree with the sites views on the mergence of the islamic phiosophy go ahead, it makes no difference to me, the fact remains that Islam is indeed the most violent religion on th eplanet today.
Remember, the suicide bombers holler the name of Islams false god before they detonate thier bombs... the name they yell is Alah.
There very well maybe peaceful folks in Islam, but they do not follow the koran, they follow thier own version of Islam.
And where is the equivalent site showing every time a Christian performs an act of violence to act as a comparison? Without a control to act as a yardstick the facts and figures presented are meaningless and are deliberately put there to incite hatred.
If you want to disagree with the sites views on the mergence of the islamic phiosophy go ahead, it makes no difference to me, the fact remains that Islam is indeed the most violent religion on th eplanet today.
Remember, the suicide bombers holler the name of Islams false god before they detonate thier bombs... the name they yell is Alah.
There very well maybe peaceful folks in Islam, but they do not follow the koran, they follow thier own version of Islam.
And where is the equivalent site showing every time a Christian performs an act of violence to act as a comparison? Without a control to act as a yardstick the facts and figures presented are meaningless and are deliberately put there to incite hatred.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
i dont know about islam, but now i started to read about it. i think you should start 'zero',pretend that u dont know anything about this religion, i mean put all bad reputations and news about islam aside first, put your hatred away and just read the Quran and the teachings, see what's written. dont see the muslims because i think most of them are not practising islam full-heartedly and the only way to know about this religion is from these books and not learning from these half-hearted half-practising muslims around. i sugggest u put away your profound hatred towards islam and try reading islamic teachings. i cannot understand why muslims are doing what theyre doing today but i dont loose anything if i read something about islams teachings. no use of showing hatred towards it but try to understand it for 'yourself' not for others. im currently trying to understand islam religion and so far i found it is not bad actually, something is different with this religion. i can accept that only one god, merely one, not 2 or 3 or more, should be one or else they will fight with each other. and this fact triggers me to search my soul, do i need religion and which one is the truth if any.:-6
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Re: Islam - Religion Of Peace?
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i dont know about islam, but now i started to read about it. i think you should start 'zero',pretend that u dont know anything about this religion, i mean put all bad reputations and news about islam aside first, put your hatred away and just read the Quran and the teachings, see what's written. dont see the muslims because i think most of them are not practising islam full-heartedly and the only way to know about this religion is from these books and not learning from these half-hearted half-practising muslims around. i sugggest u put away your profound hatred towards islam and try reading islamic teachings. i cannot understand why muslims are doing what theyre doing today but i dont loose anything if i read something about islams teachings. no use of showing hatred towards it but try to understand it for 'yourself' not for others. im currently trying to understand islam religion and so far i found it is not bad actually, something is different with this religion. i can accept that only one god, merely one, not 2 or 3 or more, should be one or else they will fight with each other. and this fact triggers me to search my soul, do i need religion and which one is the truth if any. :-6
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i dont know about islam, but now i started to read about it. i think you should start 'zero',pretend that u dont know anything about this religion, i mean put all bad reputations and news about islam aside first, put your hatred away and just read the Quran and the teachings, see what's written. dont see the muslims because i think most of them are not practising islam full-heartedly and the only way to know about this religion is from these books and not learning from these half-hearted half-practising muslims around. i sugggest u put away your profound hatred towards islam and try reading islamic teachings. i cannot understand why muslims are doing what theyre doing today but i dont loose anything if i read something about islams teachings. no use of showing hatred towards it but try to understand it for 'yourself' not for others. im currently trying to understand islam religion and so far i found it is not bad actually, something is different with this religion. i can accept that only one god, merely one, not 2 or 3 or more, should be one or else they will fight with each other. and this fact triggers me to search my soul, do i need religion and which one is the truth if any. :-6
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Accountable
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Bryn Mawr;869196 wrote: And where is the equivalent site showing every time a Christian performs an act of violence to act as a comparison?
Not having looked at any of these sites, it would have to be violent acts in the name of Christ. That reduces the numbers considerably.
Not having looked at any of these sites, it would have to be violent acts in the name of Christ. That reduces the numbers considerably.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
JAB;874089 wrote: Then you don't understand the concept of the Holy Trinity. This isn't like Greek mythology where you have a god of war, seas, love etc, etc. And why would you automatically assume the gods would fight each other?
it's simple..u'll know why. just see world leaders, they dont have the same 'power' yet they want to prove only they and their followers are right and others have to follow them, they create chaos everywhere as they like it'terrorist' as they define it.
yes, i dont understand trinity until today, 3 in one , one in 3 gives me headache.
why god should need to be sacrified for human he created, He'as above all didn't he. 'i am god why should i become lower than u'
jester's quoting from that book the origin of religion, the writer's full of hatred and assume this religion islam is nothing but all bad. why not reading from other neutral writers or from muslim writers.
:driving:
it's simple..u'll know why. just see world leaders, they dont have the same 'power' yet they want to prove only they and their followers are right and others have to follow them, they create chaos everywhere as they like it'terrorist' as they define it.
yes, i dont understand trinity until today, 3 in one , one in 3 gives me headache.
why god should need to be sacrified for human he created, He'as above all didn't he. 'i am god why should i become lower than u'
jester's quoting from that book the origin of religion, the writer's full of hatred and assume this religion islam is nothing but all bad. why not reading from other neutral writers or from muslim writers.
:driving:
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
for me, god should be like this(and im willing to look for details in Quran and their prophets saying if islam's god is like this)'
1.i am god, therefore only me having the greatest powers no one else,im the only one
2.i create humans to be my servants for my own reasons, i dont need u but u need me
3.u must obey my commands if not i will punish u
4.who said im not fair, not good, who are u to question me, i do what i wish to do, u are lucky, what if i just create u and burn u in hell instead i put u on earth to struggle.
5. i am arrogant, yes, u cannot do anything to me
6. i create good people so that they can lead u and help u to know me better
7. i dont care u beleive me or not, when u died, u will know then
8. u have no choice but to beleive me but u need not force others to follow u
a lot more, should be. hopefully i will find the right path.
thanks all for responding to me.:guitarist
1.i am god, therefore only me having the greatest powers no one else,im the only one
2.i create humans to be my servants for my own reasons, i dont need u but u need me
3.u must obey my commands if not i will punish u
4.who said im not fair, not good, who are u to question me, i do what i wish to do, u are lucky, what if i just create u and burn u in hell instead i put u on earth to struggle.
5. i am arrogant, yes, u cannot do anything to me
6. i create good people so that they can lead u and help u to know me better
7. i dont care u beleive me or not, when u died, u will know then
8. u have no choice but to beleive me but u need not force others to follow u
a lot more, should be. hopefully i will find the right path.
thanks all for responding to me.:guitarist
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Well, Im really over this whole topic, so I'll leave my final opinion here.
1. I don't believe Islam to be more or less violent than any other.
2. There are many, many peaceful people following Islam as there are those following Christianity. The behaviour of extremists doesn't mean that everyone will go to those extremes.
3. I don't agree with violent behaviour regardless of who commits it.
4. Some of the statistics quoted have no meaning without having some comparison, preferably from another religion.
5. People should be seen for who they are, good or bad. Religion alone shouldn't define who you do or don't wish to associate with, neither should race etc.
6. I can't change other peoples opinion or belief structure but I don't think initing intolerance and anger serves any purpose. It saddens me to see people writing off a huge number of people, based on the actions of a few. That to me is ignorant and uncalled for. I feel sorry for people who think like that. I feel sorry for the friendships they will miss out on. I feel sorry for them for being so focussed on bad things that they can't see the good. I feel sorry for their immediate family and children that they are feeding such negative and generalised information.
1. I don't believe Islam to be more or less violent than any other.
2. There are many, many peaceful people following Islam as there are those following Christianity. The behaviour of extremists doesn't mean that everyone will go to those extremes.
3. I don't agree with violent behaviour regardless of who commits it.
4. Some of the statistics quoted have no meaning without having some comparison, preferably from another religion.
5. People should be seen for who they are, good or bad. Religion alone shouldn't define who you do or don't wish to associate with, neither should race etc.
6. I can't change other peoples opinion or belief structure but I don't think initing intolerance and anger serves any purpose. It saddens me to see people writing off a huge number of people, based on the actions of a few. That to me is ignorant and uncalled for. I feel sorry for people who think like that. I feel sorry for the friendships they will miss out on. I feel sorry for them for being so focussed on bad things that they can't see the good. I feel sorry for their immediate family and children that they are feeding such negative and generalised information.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;873997 wrote: You cant just disregard the truth, islam, in the name of allah has committed great atrocities against peaceful human life.
Hate, interesting use of 'hate' you see I don't 'hate' anyone in particular, but I do hate the actions of those that would take innocent life, or harm the innocent... especially to force them to believe a certain way. To stop them is a matter of justice.
Something is different about this religion you are right about that, its very violent.
You could say exactly the same thing about, christians, in the name of jesus have committed great atrocities on other christians as well as those of other faiths in the name of jesus. Some of the worst are catholic atrocities against heretics although protestants could be just as vicious. It's a toss up which has been the most violent or indeed most vicious.
Hitler was a catholic although he didn't claim to do things in the name of christ-on the other hand then pope said nothing to condemn what was happening when he was aware of it. It's ironic actually, the jews historically have always had more to fear from christians than they used to muslims.
When the early religious fundamentalist settlers in the americas realised that disease was decimating the native population they took that as a sign from god that they were destined to take over the land and rejoiced. They weren't above a little healthy genocide either if god didn't do it properly-all in the name of their religion.
Christian faith was cynically used to justify slavery and racist beliefs right up to modern times. Again no doubt you can claim that wasn't christians doing these things.
Christians defend themselves by saying rulers have used religion for their own ends and christs message is a peaceful one- that some commit atrocity in the name of christ doesn't make the message of christ any less peaceful. It's the same with islam, that some commit great atrocities doesn't change the basic peaceful message. Both get used and abused.
Of course both are irrational and silly belief systems and very destructive and intolerant each in their own way. Each tries to prevent their religion being challenged and wants to control their followers. The sooner the world is secular the better it will be. Won't end war of course just take away the hypocrisy and hate reinforced by faith faith mentality.
One man's truth is another's load of superstitious nonsense.
And it's no thanks at all to religion that I live in a time when I can say that without being burned at the stake as a heretic. Pagans went to war and prayed to the gods to help them. At least they never went to war to make converts, we have to wait for monotheism for that
posted by jester
Something is different about this religion you are right about that, its very violent.
So you can't take the message of christ to heart and forgive their trespasses?
Hate, interesting use of 'hate' you see I don't 'hate' anyone in particular, but I do hate the actions of those that would take innocent life, or harm the innocent... especially to force them to believe a certain way. To stop them is a matter of justice.
Something is different about this religion you are right about that, its very violent.
You could say exactly the same thing about, christians, in the name of jesus have committed great atrocities on other christians as well as those of other faiths in the name of jesus. Some of the worst are catholic atrocities against heretics although protestants could be just as vicious. It's a toss up which has been the most violent or indeed most vicious.
Hitler was a catholic although he didn't claim to do things in the name of christ-on the other hand then pope said nothing to condemn what was happening when he was aware of it. It's ironic actually, the jews historically have always had more to fear from christians than they used to muslims.
When the early religious fundamentalist settlers in the americas realised that disease was decimating the native population they took that as a sign from god that they were destined to take over the land and rejoiced. They weren't above a little healthy genocide either if god didn't do it properly-all in the name of their religion.
Christian faith was cynically used to justify slavery and racist beliefs right up to modern times. Again no doubt you can claim that wasn't christians doing these things.
Christians defend themselves by saying rulers have used religion for their own ends and christs message is a peaceful one- that some commit atrocity in the name of christ doesn't make the message of christ any less peaceful. It's the same with islam, that some commit great atrocities doesn't change the basic peaceful message. Both get used and abused.
Of course both are irrational and silly belief systems and very destructive and intolerant each in their own way. Each tries to prevent their religion being challenged and wants to control their followers. The sooner the world is secular the better it will be. Won't end war of course just take away the hypocrisy and hate reinforced by faith faith mentality.
One man's truth is another's load of superstitious nonsense.
And it's no thanks at all to religion that I live in a time when I can say that without being burned at the stake as a heretic. Pagans went to war and prayed to the gods to help them. At least they never went to war to make converts, we have to wait for monotheism for that
posted by jester
Something is different about this religion you are right about that, its very violent.
So you can't take the message of christ to heart and forgive their trespasses?
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freetobeme
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;873997 wrote: You cant just disregard the truth, islam, in the name of allah has committed great atrocities against peaceful human life.
Hate, interesting use of 'hate' you see I don't 'hate' anyone in particular, but I do hate the actions of those that would take innocent life, or harm the innocent... especially to force them to believe a certain way. To stop them is a matter of justice.
Something is different about this religion you are right about that, its very violent.
I don't 'hate' anyone either, I might think that Islam generally is more prone to violence today, but I don't hate Islam, or any other religion. Hate is a strong word, which today used as another PC tool to silence critics.
IMHO, Islam is more prone to conflict and violence, particularly as Islam tends to divide the world into those who follow Islam and those who do not.
Islamic fundamentalists (Islamists) today, are the source of extremely high levels of violence , not only towards non Muslims but other Muslims. What other religion encourages and pays people, including children and the mentally challenged to turn themselves into human bombs, or behead innocent people?
Daniel Pipes defines Islamism as "a political movement that takes the religion of Islam and turns it into the basis of a totalitarian ideology that shares much with prior versions, namely fascism and Marxism-Leninism." This movement includes the majority of violent Islamic terrorist movements, including Al-Qaeda. "
Pipes believes that although radical Islamists are in the minority, they wield a huge influence on the rest of Muslims, and, that many of their actions are actually popular with a much wider group of Muslims.
Their belief system says that they are not to baptize all nations, but to conquer and subdue them, while Islamic law governs every aspect of religious, political and personal action, much of which has little in common with western values and laws.
It seems to me that Islam today, is the biggest threat to peace and that more violent acts are done in the name of Islam every year than those done for all other religions combined. Maybe some one has stats to disprove this, I haven't found any yet.
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Hate, interesting use of 'hate' you see I don't 'hate' anyone in particular, but I do hate the actions of those that would take innocent life, or harm the innocent... especially to force them to believe a certain way. To stop them is a matter of justice.
Something is different about this religion you are right about that, its very violent.
I don't 'hate' anyone either, I might think that Islam generally is more prone to violence today, but I don't hate Islam, or any other religion. Hate is a strong word, which today used as another PC tool to silence critics.
IMHO, Islam is more prone to conflict and violence, particularly as Islam tends to divide the world into those who follow Islam and those who do not.
Islamic fundamentalists (Islamists) today, are the source of extremely high levels of violence , not only towards non Muslims but other Muslims. What other religion encourages and pays people, including children and the mentally challenged to turn themselves into human bombs, or behead innocent people?
Daniel Pipes defines Islamism as "a political movement that takes the religion of Islam and turns it into the basis of a totalitarian ideology that shares much with prior versions, namely fascism and Marxism-Leninism." This movement includes the majority of violent Islamic terrorist movements, including Al-Qaeda. "
Pipes believes that although radical Islamists are in the minority, they wield a huge influence on the rest of Muslims, and, that many of their actions are actually popular with a much wider group of Muslims.
Their belief system says that they are not to baptize all nations, but to conquer and subdue them, while Islamic law governs every aspect of religious, political and personal action, much of which has little in common with western values and laws.
It seems to me that Islam today, is the biggest threat to peace and that more violent acts are done in the name of Islam every year than those done for all other religions combined. Maybe some one has stats to disprove this, I haven't found any yet.
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senior's politics and discussion
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QUINNSCOMMENTARY
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?
It would be hard to justify that Islam is a religion of peace. Its roots are in conquest and violence, its law is harsh and most important it appears easily corrupted by individuals. Given there is no single head or structure, individual ideas can be easily integrated into the religion including the justification of violence (as we see today). It is also intolerant despite claims to the contrary.
Of course, many religions have caused violence and destruction in the name of religion, but I am not familiar with others where there is such a violent reaction to any dissention or criticism. (perhaps the inquisition excepted)
I remember a few years back where some middle east prince or something had his grandaughter and her boyfriend beheaded under Islamic law becasue of some violation that would be inconceivable to Westeners.
Religion of any kind can be a blessing and a curse, a vehicle for good or evil and the fact that all religions are in the hand and control of man means they can all be corrupted, but Islam seems to be more prone to all forms of what non-believers would see are intolerance and violence.
Of course, many religions have caused violence and destruction in the name of religion, but I am not familiar with others where there is such a violent reaction to any dissention or criticism. (perhaps the inquisition excepted)
I remember a few years back where some middle east prince or something had his grandaughter and her boyfriend beheaded under Islamic law becasue of some violation that would be inconceivable to Westeners.
Religion of any kind can be a blessing and a curse, a vehicle for good or evil and the fact that all religions are in the hand and control of man means they can all be corrupted, but Islam seems to be more prone to all forms of what non-believers would see are intolerance and violence.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
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"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;874590 wrote: GMC, my main argument agasint Islam is that it is not a religion at all, nor does God have anything to do with it, it is a false religion, nothing of any god exists in Islam, its a lie perpetrated by the thugs and thieves of Muahmmads time to commit war under a psuedo-religous sytem loosly based on the old testament, in essense they took all that enacted thier ability to take and be greedy form the history of the hebrews...
I could forgive thier trespasses sure, but the consequences of thier actions exist, were not talking a slap on the cheek here GM, we're talking about them forcing us to take this religion to ourselves or remove our heads. I'd like to keep my head, thank you very much.
I know a few orangemen that would give you the same argument about Catholicism being a true religion, idolatrous as it with the vicar of Rome claiming to be descended from peter. Come to that there are plenty of catholics who follow the one "true" religion. Happily they no longer slaughter each other but the sectarianism hate is just there below the surface and with the right conditions will come roaring back. I've got little time for religious extremists of any kind. It's a moot point which is worse christian or muslim. If you're looking at the past it would take about five minutes to produce a list of christian atrocities, catholic on protestant, protestant in catholic, chrisrtian jew, christian on muslim. Yet it's those of a secular disposition that get accused of destroying the fabric of society and threatening family values and condemned for insisting that religious belief is not a good enough reason to demand special treatment and freedom from criticism.
Your kind of Christian fundamentalism is a peculiarly American phenomenon. Maybe you've got some problems of your own coming. Mind you I haven't a clue how influential the church lobby really is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christofascism
Ah the tinky winky scandal. I remember when that story broke. The British TV reporters had real problems keeping straight faces while reporting it.
My religion good yours bad is a silly reason to go to war, Always was and always will be.
I could forgive thier trespasses sure, but the consequences of thier actions exist, were not talking a slap on the cheek here GM, we're talking about them forcing us to take this religion to ourselves or remove our heads. I'd like to keep my head, thank you very much.
I know a few orangemen that would give you the same argument about Catholicism being a true religion, idolatrous as it with the vicar of Rome claiming to be descended from peter. Come to that there are plenty of catholics who follow the one "true" religion. Happily they no longer slaughter each other but the sectarianism hate is just there below the surface and with the right conditions will come roaring back. I've got little time for religious extremists of any kind. It's a moot point which is worse christian or muslim. If you're looking at the past it would take about five minutes to produce a list of christian atrocities, catholic on protestant, protestant in catholic, chrisrtian jew, christian on muslim. Yet it's those of a secular disposition that get accused of destroying the fabric of society and threatening family values and condemned for insisting that religious belief is not a good enough reason to demand special treatment and freedom from criticism.
Your kind of Christian fundamentalism is a peculiarly American phenomenon. Maybe you've got some problems of your own coming. Mind you I haven't a clue how influential the church lobby really is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christofascism
Ah the tinky winky scandal. I remember when that story broke. The British TV reporters had real problems keeping straight faces while reporting it.
My religion good yours bad is a silly reason to go to war, Always was and always will be.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
ezanee;873984 wrote: i dont know about islam, but now i started to read about it. i think you should start 'zero',pretend that u dont know anything about this religion, i mean put all bad reputations and news about islam aside first, put your hatred away and just read the Quran and the teachings, see what's written. dont see the muslims because i think most of them are not practising islam full-heartedly and the only way to know about this religion is from these books and not learning from these half-hearted half-practising muslims around. i sugggest u put away your profound hatred towards islam and try reading islamic teachings. i cannot understand why muslims are doing what theyre doing today but i dont loose anything if i read something about islams teachings. no use of showing hatred towards it but try to understand it for 'yourself' not for others. im currently trying to understand islam religion and so far i found it is not bad actually, something is different with this religion. i can accept that only one god, merely one, not 2 or 3 or more, should be one or else they will fight with each other. and this fact triggers me to search my soul, do i need religion and which one is the truth if any.:-6
Been there, done that - and I must admit it did nothing for me.
Having read the Bible I had a very good idea of the beliefs and teachings of Christ.
Having read the Koran I became more confused about the core beliefs of Islam than I was when I started. It stirred nothing in my soul, probably because the common points of reference were not there and without those hooks to hang meaning on there was little or no understanding of what it was trying to teach.
Been there, done that - and I must admit it did nothing for me.
Having read the Bible I had a very good idea of the beliefs and teachings of Christ.
Having read the Koran I became more confused about the core beliefs of Islam than I was when I started. It stirred nothing in my soul, probably because the common points of reference were not there and without those hooks to hang meaning on there was little or no understanding of what it was trying to teach.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;873997 wrote: You cant just disregard the truth, islam, in the name of allah has committed great atrocities against peaceful human life.
Hate, interesting use of 'hate' you see I don't 'hate' anyone in particular, but I do hate the actions of those that would take innocent life, or harm the innocent... especially to force them to believe a certain way. To stop them is a matter of justice.
Something is different about this religion you are right about that, its very violent.
As has Christianity - in Spades, doubles, redoubles and vulnerable!
Over the millennia Christianity has committed equally as many atrocities and has just as much blood on its hands as Islam.
Hate, interesting use of 'hate' you see I don't 'hate' anyone in particular, but I do hate the actions of those that would take innocent life, or harm the innocent... especially to force them to believe a certain way. To stop them is a matter of justice.
Something is different about this religion you are right about that, its very violent.
As has Christianity - in Spades, doubles, redoubles and vulnerable!
Over the millennia Christianity has committed equally as many atrocities and has just as much blood on its hands as Islam.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Accountable;874002 wrote: Not having looked at any of these sites, it would have to be violent acts in the name of Christ. That reduces the numbers considerably.
Nah - they count every time a Muslim sneezes in a threatening way.
Nah - they count every time a Muslim sneezes in a threatening way.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
ezanee;874445 wrote: it's simple..u'll know why. just see world leaders, they dont have the same 'power' yet they want to prove only they and their followers are right and others have to follow them, they create chaos everywhere as they like it'terrorist' as they define it.
yes, i dont understand trinity until today, 3 in one , one in 3 gives me headache.
why god should need to be sacrified for human he created, He'as above all didn't he. 'i am god why should i become lower than u'
jester's quoting from that book the origin of religion, the writer's full of hatred and assume this religion islam is nothing but all bad. why not reading from other neutral writers or from muslim writers.
:driving:
God is infinite - I think we can agree on that.
Man is finite - can we also agree on that.
Man cannot comprehend God in all his glory. He can see this or that aspect of God but cannot see the whole of God at once - God is too great for that.
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are but three aspects of the One True God - they cannot fight because they are one and the same.
yes, i dont understand trinity until today, 3 in one , one in 3 gives me headache.
why god should need to be sacrified for human he created, He'as above all didn't he. 'i am god why should i become lower than u'
jester's quoting from that book the origin of religion, the writer's full of hatred and assume this religion islam is nothing but all bad. why not reading from other neutral writers or from muslim writers.
:driving:
God is infinite - I think we can agree on that.
Man is finite - can we also agree on that.
Man cannot comprehend God in all his glory. He can see this or that aspect of God but cannot see the whole of God at once - God is too great for that.
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are but three aspects of the One True God - they cannot fight because they are one and the same.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
kiwimum76;874502 wrote: Well, Im really over this whole topic, so I'll leave my final opinion here.
1. I don't believe Islam to be more or less violent than any other.
2. There are many, many peaceful people following Islam as there are those following Christianity. The behaviour of extremists doesn't mean that everyone will go to those extremes.
3. I don't agree with violent behaviour regardless of who commits it.
4. Some of the statistics quoted have no meaning without having some comparison, preferably from another religion.
5. People should be seen for who they are, good or bad. Religion alone shouldn't define who you do or don't wish to associate with, neither should race etc.
6. I can't change other peoples opinion or belief structure but I don't think initing intolerance and anger serves any purpose. It saddens me to see people writing off a huge number of people, based on the actions of a few. That to me is ignorant and uncalled for. I feel sorry for people who think like that. I feel sorry for the friendships they will miss out on. I feel sorry for them for being so focussed on bad things that they can't see the good. I feel sorry for their immediate family and children that they are feeding such negative and generalised information.
Perfectly said - I bow to your insight :yh_worshp
1. I don't believe Islam to be more or less violent than any other.
2. There are many, many peaceful people following Islam as there are those following Christianity. The behaviour of extremists doesn't mean that everyone will go to those extremes.
3. I don't agree with violent behaviour regardless of who commits it.
4. Some of the statistics quoted have no meaning without having some comparison, preferably from another religion.
5. People should be seen for who they are, good or bad. Religion alone shouldn't define who you do or don't wish to associate with, neither should race etc.
6. I can't change other peoples opinion or belief structure but I don't think initing intolerance and anger serves any purpose. It saddens me to see people writing off a huge number of people, based on the actions of a few. That to me is ignorant and uncalled for. I feel sorry for people who think like that. I feel sorry for the friendships they will miss out on. I feel sorry for them for being so focussed on bad things that they can't see the good. I feel sorry for their immediate family and children that they are feeding such negative and generalised information.
Perfectly said - I bow to your insight :yh_worshp
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;874585 wrote: Well then I feel sorry for you for not seeking to balance the whole truth, and not be so careless that you invite someone in to your fold of friends that may potentially be both physically dangerous and dangerous to your childrens minds.
In the same way I feel sorry for you that you cannot see past the faults of the few to the good of the many.
In the same way I feel sorry for you that you cannot see past the faults of the few to the good of the many.
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;875002 wrote: I've never been interested in fighting a religious war, I figure if God wants to he can wipe out an entire army, He doesnt need defending. Seems silly to me to get it an uproar over words said about anothers God.
Well for once I agree with you.
I've never been interested in fighting religious war either. Especially someone else's
Seems silly to me to get it an uproar over words said about anothers God
That always bugs the life out of me. If you believe thee is only one god there is only one god. What you call him doesn't make him not god. How you worship doesn't make him not god yet religious people seem determined to start wars over it.
Well for once I agree with you.
I've never been interested in fighting religious war either. Especially someone else'sSeems silly to me to get it an uproar over words said about anothers God
That always bugs the life out of me. If you believe thee is only one god there is only one god. What you call him doesn't make him not god. How you worship doesn't make him not god yet religious people seem determined to start wars over it.
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freetobeme
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?
QUINNSCOMMENTARY;874707 wrote: It would be hard to justify that Islam is a religion of peace. Its roots are in conquest and violence, its law is harsh and most important it appears easily corrupted by individuals. Given there is no single head or structure, individual ideas can be easily integrated into the religion including the justification of violence (as we see today). It is also intolerant despite claims to the contrary.
Of course, many religions have caused violence and destruction in the name of religion, but I am not familiar with others where there is such a violent reaction to any dissention or criticism. (perhaps the inquisition excepted)
This is the point isn't it, I don't think anywhere in the world there is the problem with violence and destruction and intolerance caused by some Muslims, heck just ask France, Sweden and Denmark for starters.
While the majority are peace loving people, the point is, even if they want to speak out, they cannot, they too could end up losing their head.
Of course, many religions have caused violence and destruction in the name of religion, but I am not familiar with others where there is such a violent reaction to any dissention or criticism. (perhaps the inquisition excepted)
This is the point isn't it, I don't think anywhere in the world there is the problem with violence and destruction and intolerance caused by some Muslims, heck just ask France, Sweden and Denmark for starters.
While the majority are peace loving people, the point is, even if they want to speak out, they cannot, they too could end up losing their head.
senior's politics and discussion
Islam - Religion Of Peace?
Jester;875003 wrote: There isn't enough of the many that will stand up against the few Bryn. When the peaceful poeple of Islam stand up and are willing to fight to save the reputation of thier religion from the remnant that is evil and uses the religion as a means to thug then I'll believe Islam has a chance to be peaceful... where is the outcry from within Islam to stop this violence... ???
Cloverleaf is a prime example of the ideology in Islam, are you going to ignore what he has said about punishing me for insulting his false prophet and his false god?
You see he has already revelaed what Islam is about, he wants the abilty to punish me, and if we were in an islamic state and I said what I said you bet I'd be bashed in the head, or my head would be removed from my body for it! The only thing stopping him from attempting it is geography, he already has the mindset to do it.
And that is typical of the muslum mindset.
I am assuming the great number of muslums who do not denounce the violence and jihad and the 'alleged few' who commit violence must actually believe they have the right under Islam, like Cloverleaf, to punish folks like me who denouce the ideology for what it is, a false philosophy of greed and violence.
There are not enough of the few to condemn the many - certainly not enough to tear world peace and order apart over.
As to Cloverleaf, I find your attitude equally intransigent and intolerant when it comes to matters of faith.
Cloverleaf is a prime example of the ideology in Islam, are you going to ignore what he has said about punishing me for insulting his false prophet and his false god?
You see he has already revelaed what Islam is about, he wants the abilty to punish me, and if we were in an islamic state and I said what I said you bet I'd be bashed in the head, or my head would be removed from my body for it! The only thing stopping him from attempting it is geography, he already has the mindset to do it.
And that is typical of the muslum mindset.
I am assuming the great number of muslums who do not denounce the violence and jihad and the 'alleged few' who commit violence must actually believe they have the right under Islam, like Cloverleaf, to punish folks like me who denouce the ideology for what it is, a false philosophy of greed and violence.
There are not enough of the few to condemn the many - certainly not enough to tear world peace and order apart over.
As to Cloverleaf, I find your attitude equally intransigent and intolerant when it comes to matters of faith.