America is Shutting Down

devist8me
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Post by devist8me »

Hope6;1532468 wrote: I haven't heard much about people saying the virus was made in the lab. Most of the stories I'm hearing are that they were studying it in the lab and it got out and after it got out they hid that fact from the rest of the world.


I've heard these stories too and don't know what to believe.

I betcha money though terrorists handy in biological warfare have been watching us closely and salavating at the chaos they can (and will) create.
I probably posted that in an ambien trance-soryy
devist8me
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Post by devist8me »

Also....

We all need to stop referring to "statistics" (at least in terms of deaths related to covid). Someone could have been in moderate distress due to pre existing coniditons like COPD or CHF) and pass away. They had 1 or 2 symptoms of covid (prior to being confirmed with test) so they say the patient died of covid.

I worked a self inflicted gun shot wound to the head a few weeks ago that was "unworkable". Since it occured during a pandemic, he was listed by local media as a "casulatiy of covid". I'm like.....W...T....F.
I probably posted that in an ambien trance-soryy
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Snooz
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Post by Snooz »

But then again we've got diabetics etc that could have lived another 20 years that died from COVID-19. There's no quibbling about it, they died from COVID-19. I don't know why your ER would do that, maybe they're trying to work the numbers for their own benefit.
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Post by devist8me »

20 years? Are you sure?? Seems a lot of variables may have been overlooked to make that assumption.

A diabetic who contacted Influenza A or B may have died faster than a covid expousre? right? maybe? maybe not?

I stand behnd my hospitals decions on what they did admit to the hospital and what they said to go home, isolate and see if you get better. The numbers are still super low in my area of the states so....if you think you have it BUT are not dying, Imma encourage you to stay home and wait it out.



Snooz;1532509 wrote: But then again we've got diabetics etc that could have lived another 20 years that died from COVID-19. There's no quibbling about it, they died from COVID-19. I don't know why your ER would do that, maybe they're trying to work the numbers for their own benefit.
I probably posted that in an ambien trance-soryy
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Post by spot »

Patsy Warnick;1532501 wrote: I have old ration books (partial use of stamps) from the Depression era - do you think we're headed towards another Depression?

Spot - Depression or not? curious

Patsy


I think if a person had been on minimal income in the last few years they'd have thought they were in a depression anyway. The poor are always poor, it's only ever a depression if the safely well-to-do lose their income and get poor for a few years too. If the rich ever get poor it's their own fault for gambling.

Will America's safely well-to-do lose income this year? Clearly they will in very large numbers. They've had two months of it, there's another twelve months to see out before significant reconstruction can begin. A minor proportion of middle America won't get through a year on minimum income and retain their assets. The more people trying to sell assets to live off, the less return they'll get. That's why it's called a depression. Besides, nobody would risk hawking goods door to door these days, they'd be dead in an hour if they tried.

You need to ask whether the three trillion dollar river of money released last month is going to shore up the companies paying those people. It's big money. One million small companies could actually grow and keep people employed if they each had one million dollars gifted tax-free, and that would only be one third of the river. Those million small companies could have soaked up a lot of middle America's worried new unemployed and kept them generating wealth for the nation. Is that where the river went, or was the river an opportunistic plundering of the future by greedy fat controllers, with marginal benefit to any real people. It's all soaked up by now and you'll not see another river like it. I'd say depression was a good word for what's left over. Your national wealth has been plundered in plain sight over the last two months. What you got for it was a $1,200 handout instead of economic support.

The great depression between the wars peaked briefly with an additional one worker in seven forced out of work - someone might check that for me but I think it's correct, it's 25% against a background pre-depression 10%. Looking back it might appear to have been more, but that's what it actually was. It's not hard to imagine this year being that bad. Six out of seven workers were still working but the country was in a very bad state.

Are banks still allowed to fail in America? It's not allowed in the UK, we nationalize them instead or guarantee small balances, but I've no idea what America does. Banks tend to fail when people and businesses default in large numbers together, that would be another traditional sign of a depression.
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Hope6
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Post by Hope6 »

AnneBoleyn;1532478 wrote: Hi Hope. I'm about as okay as I can be and hope Hope is doing well too!


yes we are doing well, I'm still doing what needs doing on the farm, living out here in the sticks has its benefits. I only go to the grocery store once a week and just waiting this stuff out. I have to be more careful than some because my husband works at a hospital plus I am full-time caregiver for my 87 year old mother-in-law and she lives in the house with us.
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Post by Hope6 »

devist8me;1532503 wrote: I've heard these stories too and don't know what to believe.

I betcha money though terrorists handy in biological warfare have been watching us closely and salavating at the chaos they can (and will) create.


Yes I bet a lot of people are watching very closely the way we handle all of this.
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Post by Hope6 »

LarsMac;1532480 wrote: Yeah, unbiased and even-handed. Umm-Hmmm.


LOL okay Lars tell me something she said that isn't true.
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Post by spot »

Hope6;1532536 wrote: LOL okay Lars tell me something she said that isn't true.


Nobody should mock the Judge, she's a good bet to be Attorney General next year.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

We're at 7620 confirmed cases & 309 have died.

As far as testing - you have to be having symptoms to be tested.

Our governor has kept our complete lock down until May 15.

stay safe

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Post by spot »

Patsy Warnick;1532541 wrote: As far as testing - you have to be having symptoms to be tested.




Is there any human in the state who would be refused a test if they had symptoms? Does a person have to produce ID when applying, for instance? What must it demonstrate?

Might the decision involve prior convictions, or citizenship, or age, or residency, for example?

What benefit does a positive test confer on an applicant? Are there financial or free treatment implications, for example?

What period elapses between applying for a test and receiving the result?

How long must an applicant wait before re-applying after a negative test?
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Spot

This is where it gets confusing.

Our testing areas are a drive up - patient in question stays in the car - swab into the nose & you'll receive the results @ 3 days. I.D. required - not sure if your asked for your Insurance card? if ins. is billed?

If test is positive your told to go home & quarantine. if you labor to breathe you might be admitted into the hospital.

There's really no benefit in results telling one your positive - if your having symptoms that's a yes for me.

not sure if you can get re-tested? good question.

If you want to be tested with no symptoms (Our local news caster did) it cost him $150.00 cash. he did it for our local news.& he received results in 3 days.

Not sure of any other restrictions - as for now you need symptoms to be tested.

Several convicts in our prisons have the virus - they're not released to hospitals- just moved to another area of the prison.

No news on whether immigrants are being turned away - you'd have to be the car to experience all those secrets..

Patsy
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Post by Snooz »

An online friend has been very sick for two weeks and had a teleconference with her primary care doctor. He told her to go to the emergency room, the doctor there blew her off, said she shouldn't be there and to get some over the counter cough syrup. Her primary care doctor lost his mind and contacted the ER doc.

Funny enough, the patient is a WOC.
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Post by devist8me »

Emergency rooms are for "emergencies" and there are super sick people there.

If you aren't super sick, don't go to the ER. Her primary doc is lazy.

Snooz;1532544 wrote: An online friend has been very sick for two weeks and had a teleconference with her primary care doctor. He told her to go to the emergency room, the doctor there blew her off, said she shouldn't be there and to get some over the counter cough syrup. Her primary care doctor lost his mind and contacted the ER doc.

Funny enough, the patient is a WOC.
I probably posted that in an ambien trance-soryy
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Post by devist8me »

At least locally, we only got 300 tests to begin with. Those were used on patients experiencing covid type symptoms only because of limited supplies.

The ID is probably to confirm the patient with the test. Otherwise, random people could say they are positive but cannot prove it (yep, there are idiots out there like that)

Should I come out positive, I'll get 14 days off, paid, from a emergency fund the hospital has provided. I know that is not something all employers can (or will) do and so some employees may not release the fact they are positive so they can continue to work to pay bills (HIPPA protects them either way, but name has to be associated with a test, and probably cross checked with a lab number)

spot;1532542 wrote: Is there any human in the state who would be refused a test if they had symptoms? Does a person have to produce ID when applying, for instance? What must it demonstrate?

Might the decision involve prior convictions, or citizenship, or age, or residency, for example?

What benefit does a positive test confer on an applicant? Are there financial or free treatment implications, for example?

What period elapses between applying for a test and receiving the result?

How long must an applicant wait before re-applying after a negative test?
I probably posted that in an ambien trance-soryy
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Hope6
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Post by Hope6 »

Here in Virginia we have passed 16,000 cases and over 500 deaths.
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Post by FourPart »

spot;1532316 wrote: We have a similar effect in large parts of the UK too. People voting Conservative come in two main flavors, the tasteless yahoo louts with loads of money, and the quiet ones who refuse to tell anyone which way they voted but still hate Socialism. A few of the rest are just obvious, the hunters and the shooters and the farmers and most of the aristocracy and the high income bracket.


There is also a 3rd group, such as myself. They are the ones who are inherently Socialist, but who have been betrayed by the Party. At the previous Election they wiped out the Tory Majority on a Pledge to respect the result of the EU Referendum, and then went full out to overthrow it. Considering that the majority of Labour Heartlands voted to Leave, that is not a very good stance for their MPs to take when they have to rely on their votes to keep their jobs. Then there is the fact, which I have stated all along, and has now been officially confirmed by Labour's own report, that the Blairites were actively working to lose the election in order to unseat Corbyn.

I consider myself Socialist, but there is no way that I could vote for a Party that blatantly lies to the Electorate & corruptly fights amongst itself in secret. However, having actually voted Tory, I find that I am warming to the Tories more & more, as I am quite impressed with the way they've been going thus far. Whilst Labour seem to think that they can recover some of their lost support by insulting the intelligence of those who switched & referring to them as Homophobic Racists, etc.
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Post by spot »

FourPart;1532558 wrote: I consider myself Socialist, but there is no way that I could vote for a Party that blatantly lies to the Electorate & corruptly fights amongst itself in secret. However, having actually voted Tory, I find that I am warming to the Tories more & more


We have a similar point of view as far as Labour is concerned. I'm so annoyed with New Labour that I stood in the last election to counter their arguments. One consequence, since I clearly couldn't vote for myself, is that I also voted for the incumbent Conservative MP, the first time I have voted for the party since Edward Heath lost in, if I remember, 1970. I was an impressionable youth and my mother couldn't stand Harold Wilson. Her father, on the other hand, had grown up supporting Gladstone, so between us we've waved flags for every party going.

I apologize for digressing. Back now to America shutting down, I think.
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Post by LarsMac »

Colorado is starting to relax the restrictions on being out and about, but has declared masks must be worn by all service folks and by any customers in a business.

The state is letting each County determine their own level of exposure, where possible.

Most of the metro Denver counties are maintaining the tight restrictions that have been in place statewide until this week.

Grocery stores are returning to some level of normal in stocking.

I actually found dried beans and Ham Shanks last week.

The hospitals have managed the patient level pretty well. Deaths are still increasing, but in single digit numbers.

we are up to 820 fatalities, out of near 16,000 confirmed cases. There have been some groups protesting the shutdowns, but they are relatively small in number. so far.
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Post by spot »

The question in both the UK and US is that the government wants a flat line but has so far refused to say how high.

Most of Europe has been driving the daily number of new confirmed cases down toward a national maximum of 200, by the look of the graphs, and daily Covid-19 deaths to 30 or 40. If they can open up aspects of each country while staying at that flat level they'll hold the national deaths from now until next summer to perhaps 10,000 more. That sort of magnitude.

Now, in the UK and US the flat line looks to be UK 4,000 daily number of new confirmed cases, and the US perhaps 20,000. You'll notice I'm being optimistic and assuming both countries can get down to that average flat figure, neither country has been that low on even a single day so far since stopping the exponential phase. Opening up either country with that high a plateau will give an additional toll by next summer of 250,000 deaths and 1,000,000 deaths respectively. Those are the optimistic numbers, with a daily death toll lower than either country has yet achieved on even one day under the present lockdown. The UK and US will slacken the restraints and would be lucky to stay flat with figures not even achieved so far.

The difference between slackening soon, or slackening only when the numbers have been driven hard down, is immense. It's around a factor of 25 in the numbers I've shown. The present tactic of the UK and US appears to be to allow the pandemic to burn out while not overwhelming the hospitals, That would halve the death toll compared to doing nothing, but it doesn't clamp the death toll to low figures at all. Flattening the curve doesn't stop people dying. Crushing the curve back toward zero and then keeping it there until Final Vaccination Day stops people dying.

I believe the UK is on track to stay flat at the high level. I don't believe the US is, I think the US is far more likely to flare back to growth while praying for the magic disinfectant fairy to appear.

We'll see.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

We've jumped up to 8300 cases.

Our Governor is continuing the lock down through May.

Governor threaten restaurants & bars - if they open they will lose their Liquor License and will be fined.

A few restaurants opened & people swarmed the business - great! - owner said this is America I'm not going to be told what to do blah blah..

No one kept the distance or wore a mask - just busy waving the flag.

Our numbers should tell you to stay closed.

idiots...

Our stores are now limiting how much meat can be purchased per transaction.

Patsy
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Post by librtyhead »

spot;1531938 wrote: Well syringes full of antibodies from people being released from hospital certainly aren't available to my pay grade yet. I wonder how many movers, shakers and politicians have access to the supply. It seems reasonable to think the stuff is being collected.

If it was that simple we would all be immune, by now.

It takes a bit of processing to develop and prove a safe, reliable, and distributable vaccine in useful quantities. And you can bet your sweet Bippie that all those movers and shakers will be sitting around waiting for others to be on the front lines of the testing process.


I would imagine that public outcry will trump scientific discord. When considering the alternative economic and monetary discrepancy will always out-way common sense. But in the larger view of things it makes sense. People will feel the direct influence of negative monetary savings. And that is what will emerge as the driving force no matter the logical conclusion.
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Post by gmc »

I wonder how long it will be before Dr Faichi and DR brix(?) are forced out or resign unable to take the stress of trying to get trump to behave rationally any more. I know the american school system has a bed reputation but are people really so ignorant they would drink disinfectant becaise the president said so?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

gmc;1532576 wrote:

1. I wonder how long it will be before Dr Faichi and DR brix(?) are forced out or resign unable to take the stress of trying to get trump to behave rationally any more.

2. I know the american school system has a bed reputation but are people really so ignorant they would drink disinfectant becaise the president said so?


1. They will not resign. They are convinced, and rightfully so, that they must hang on for the good of the people and the work they have done all their lives.

2. How do you think he got elected in the first place?
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Post by LarsMac »

gmc;1532576 wrote: I wonder how long it will be before Dr Faichi and DR brix(?) are forced out or resign unable to take the stress of trying to get trump to behave rationally any more. I know the american school system has a bed reputation but are people really so ignorant they would drink disinfectant becaise the president said so?


Fauci doesn't even try, anymore.

He has perfected that ever-so-subtle eye-roll.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

LarsMac;1532578 wrote: Fauci doesn't even try, anymore.

He has perfected that ever-so-subtle eye-roll.


It was never their job to change Trump. It was, and is, their job to do their job despite Trump. They are not cynical people in the least but highly professional scientists, dedicated to their work and not politicians of any stripe.
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Post by LarsMac »

AnneBoleyn;1532579 wrote: It was never their job to change Trump. It was, and is, their job to do their job despite Trump. They are not cynical people in the least but highly professional scientists, dedicated to their work and not politicians of any stripe.


Well said, Anne.

We do still have some Professionals in the government. Hopefully some of them survive until we can boot his sorry ass.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Our Governor folded under pressure and has Reopened the state.

Restaurants (inside seating)- salons - shops will open tomorrow with the proper restrictions/ guidelines. I will not be at a restaurant, shop or salon.

our confirmed cases climbed to 9000 & 370 deaths.

I don't feel reopening right now will be a positive outcome. Just last week our Governor threatened to take establishments liquor license away & now let's reopen?

We'll see how this works out.

Any other state reopened?

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Post by spot »

The people making the decisions have ample evidence of what exponential growth looks like, they have no excuse at all for allowing it to return.

We'll just have to see what happens.

Stay out of the field of fire, Patsy. There's a year of this still to go.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Patsy Warnick;1532587 wrote: Our Governor folded under pressure and has Reopened the state.............I don't feel reopening right now will be a positive outcome. Just last week our Governor threatened to take establishments liquor license away & now let's reopen?

Patsy


HI PATSY!!!

Maybe Arizona shouldn't be electing Republicans. Your chance to help stop the madness is to vote Mark Kelly for Senator and rid yourselves of the unelected McSally. The Republicans all stick together, without having the guts to deviate, to the point of ignoring their own conscience. What good is having a conscience if you don't use it?
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Anne

good to see you back at FG - I was getting worried about you.

I believe since Trump had plans to visit AZ today - our Governor wanted to kiss butt & open the state. (see how well we're doing) B.S..

Trump will arrive today & McSally will be kissing butt & escorting Trump around Honeywell where they're making masks etc.. This is all for Trump's visit.

let's see how our Governor feels when this reopening goes south. Will he have a conscience when the numbers increase.

Is there any other state reopening? My family is in WA state & WA is on shut down until June.

I won't be participating - I'll cut my own hair.. Lol - it'll grow back.. Lol

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Post by Patsy Warnick »

VP Joe Biden said AZ is Grandstanding!!!!

exactly

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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Hey Patsy. I found this really long list of states if you have the time to browse it!

"This is where all 50 states stand on reopening"

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/us ... irus-trnd/
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Post by spot »

I'm wondering whether America as a whole is going to reduce the daily death count. Clearly some areas will, but the ones which don't will be a millstone to those that at least try.

The Union will, of course, be defended at all costs. I wonder how road closures preventing movement between states will be handled from a Federal standpoint though. Will state self-isolation be permitted?

What if one state allows an open-air music festival, for example? Or a stadium event?
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Spot

If one state allows Festivals - concerts etc. then people from all over will go to that state to attend.

our lakes have always been open & people come from several different states & continue to do so. Nevada - California - New Mexico. So, there's no border security to stop the flow of people. WHY?

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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Todays report - we're at 9300 - that's 300 from yesterday & we're reopened.?

Trump arrives & no one is wearing a mask? in the same vehicle!! really do you know the message?

Do what we say - not what we do..... one way or another !!!

stay safe

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Post by magentaflame »

Ummmm.... that's insane. We've only had 95 deaths in Australia and we still aren't opening just yet . They are going to look at the results of the mass testing. Then decide . Some states want to open but I reckon it's too soon.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Today we're at 9707 cases & 400 have died.

That's 400 confirmed cases from yesterday's count.

This reopening is a failure already - am I the only one watching this train wreck?

stay safe

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Post by spot »

While what you say is true, Patsy, it's also the case that America is going to re-open its shops, factories, schools, sports arenas, pubs, restaurants and that it will do so before summer. The country is based on commerce, it can't do without commerce, it needs commerce more than it needs the odd one or two million people who are in the main already ill, unproductive and uninsured. It's either that or another mortgage crash.

We can shortcut the way the politicians are creeping toward their endgame. Just add a zero to any current death toll and you'll be half way to the final count, whether it's a city, a state or the country as a whole. Sometime between now and the clock stopping, people will ask who they should blame. The rules of Pass the Parcel dictate that nobody will still be holding it by then, they'll probably all be pointing at pesky foreigners.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

I feel so disposable.

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Post by spot »

To whom? To your financial overlords and their political enforcers?

You seem quite capable of staying in retreat for the year ahead, you're not obliged to roll over for them. Stay safe, don't mix with crowds, you'll be in as little danger as any other year. The deaths are among the ones who can't or won't hunker down.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

I was kidding - need the smiley face.

We won't be venturing out - this is our life for sometime.

Let me ask - Let's go into a salon - say pedicure. The salon did all protocol for reopening - I'm in a mask - they're masked. Only location I venture out to for days and I come down with symptoms for the virus - is the salon held liable?

or I'm just the lucky duck with the virus? or should establishments have a sign "Enter at your own risk" ?

just curious

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spot
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Post by spot »

They would be liable if you absolutely could prove they were the source of your infection, which you can't in practice ever demonstrate, and that they were negligent to a criminal or at least probable degree, which they would argue that they took all reasonable steps to avoid contamination. The answer is to buff your own nails like I do.

Consider the liability of the owner of a saloon in 1880 in Deadwood, North Dakota, if some card players got into an argument over a poker hand. That's Covid-19 in a pedicure salon this year. Take your revolver with you and sit with your back to the wall.
Nullius in verba|||||||||||
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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

we are preparing for a funeral for my SiL.

We were informed that no more than ten people can attend the graveside service, and one of those must be the service director. so add a pastor to deliver the eulogy, and we're down to eight. All participants must wear a mask.

All the rest of the family can come in their cars, and park nearby, and line up for a walk by the grave, after the service is completed (keeping proper distance, and wearing masks, of course).
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

spot;1532628 wrote:

......Stay safe, don't mix with crowds, you'll be in as little danger as any other year. The deaths are among the ones who can't or won't hunker down.


Today Governor Cuomo released the startling statistic that 66% of those hospitalized with the virus were Homebound. Two-thirds, yup. It's a crapshoot?
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

LarsMac;1532642 wrote: we are preparing for a funeral for my SiL.




Condolences Lars.
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Patsy Warnick;1532627 wrote: I feel so disposable.

Patsy


Oh ((Patsy)). We're all disposable except to the few who love us.
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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

Patsy Warnick;1532627 wrote: I feel so disposable.

Patsy


Well, you're not disposable around here.

We all love having you around.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
-Susan Hattie Steinsapir
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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

AnneBoleyn;1532644 wrote: Condolences Lars.


thank you, Anne.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
-Susan Hattie Steinsapir
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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

AnneBoleyn;1532643 wrote: Today Governor Cuomo released the startling statistic that 66% of those hospitalized with the virus were Homebound. Two-thirds, yup. It's a crapshoot?


Not a surprise. This thing got into a lot of nursing facilities and burned through some like a wildfire.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
-Susan Hattie Steinsapir

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