China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

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LarsMac
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by LarsMac »

An interesting article that exposes some of the dangers of socialist government playing at Capitalism.

The Chinese Government Is Getting Rich Selling Cigarettes - Businessweek

The Chinese gummint owns the the tobacco industry in China, as it owns pretty much all other industries in China.

As it gets rich selling cigarettes to its citizens, it is also concerned about the health problems caused by smoking.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by Bruv »

Maybe it's another aspect of their population control ?
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by spot »

Oh come on - the UK government tax on tobacco products is far more than the manufacturer's profit margin. If you have the choice of getting rich making it or getting rich taxing it, go for taxation every time.

Is there no US government tax on tobacco products?

On a typical pack of 20 premium cigarettes the total tax burden of £6.17 accounts for 77% of the recommended retail price (RRP) of £7.98.

http://www.the-tma.org.uk/policy-legislation/taxation/

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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

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Yes, the US has huge tax burden on cigs. People now pay more for a 20 pc pack than I ever paid for a 10-pack carton, back in my smoking days.

But in China, it seems, the government owns the manufacturing and distribution, and still taxes the stuff. So they get profit and taxes on same profit, and then some of the taxes collected go to the health system, where they must treat the results of people's life-long smoking habits.

Now the same government is launching a campaign to discourage new smokers.

How weird is that.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by Bruv »

LarsMac;1486230 wrote: How weird is that.


It's catch 22, keeping so many employed growing then manufacturing plus tax revenue against the health risks and the cost involved in that.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by spot »

Any country which offers any form of state-funded pension or state-funded healthcare is going to pay out more on health care and pension payments, the less people smoke, out of a smaller tax revenue. Why should China, the US or the UK dissuade smokers from quitting?
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by AnneBoleyn »

Bruv;1486227 wrote: Maybe it's another aspect of their population control ?


Funny you should say that, it's what I was thinking also. China doesn't give a damn about it's individual people, IMO.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

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AnneBoleyn;1486235 wrote: China doesn't give a damn about it's individual people, IMO.That sounds terribly like uninformed bias, you know. Why would you think it? What do you base your prejudice on? The politicians in China seem, to me , to have maximized national happiness over the last thirty years.

What puzzles me is that you live in a country where literally - not figuratively, but absolutely literally - millions of people die every year for the simple lack of a roof over their head, adequate food or basic healthcare. And here you are lambasting the Chinese government, which has made a greater leap forward in enabling its citizens over the last two generations than any country on earth.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by AnneBoleyn »

spot;1486236 wrote:

What puzzles me is that you live in a country where literally - not figuratively, but absolutely literally - millions of people die every year for the simple lack of a roof over their head, adequate food or basic healthcare.


Link, please. Sounds like uninformed bias.

Also, was not praising, in any way, the U.S. Was not comparing countries either. I did say 'IMO.'
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

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spot;1486236 wrote: That sounds terribly like uninformed bias, you know. Why would you think it? What do you base your prejudice on? The politicians in China seem, to me , to have maximized national happiness over the last thirty years.

What puzzles me is that you live in a country where literally - not figuratively, but absolutely literally - millions of people die every year for the simple lack of a roof over their head, adequate food or basic healthcare. And here you are lambasting the Chinese government, which has made a greater leap forward in enabling its citizens over the last two generations than any country on earth.


When I was there, they didn't seem all that happy. Just busy. I guess keeping busy stops people from being overly anxious and depressed, so maybe you're on to something.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by Bruv »

spot;1486236 wrote: What puzzles me is that you live in a country where literally - not figuratively, but absolutely literally - millions of people die every year for the simple lack of a roof over their head, adequate food or basic healthcare


Millions ? Literally ?

What exactly are you attributing this too ?
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by Bruv »

AnneBoleyn;1486235 wrote: Funny you should say that, it's what I was thinking also. China doesn't give a damn about it's individual people, IMO.


To be honest it was a joke in poor taste which I regretted as soon as I posted it.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

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Bruv;1486242 wrote: Millions ? Literally ?

What exactly are you attributing this too ?


Well, "adequate food, and basic healthcare" are probably responsible for a lot.

As for the lack of a roof, Homeless people are a rather hardy lot. While I certainly have grown to appreciate my roof, I think the idea of needing one may be overrated.
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Post by Bruv »

I would just like to know if our Spot throws a big blanket over poorly educated people buying beer and TV's and living on Big Mac and fries, and those that have no control over the fact there is no food to eat at all.

Literally millions of deaths, sounds an excessive claim to me.

People die, if poor people die................is it because they are poor ?
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

Post by spot »

AnneBoleyn;1486240 wrote: Link, please. Sounds like uninformed bias.


You're quite right, I misplaced a decimal when I juggled the numbers in my head while writing.



I've tried hard over several years to find adequate US statistics. The trouble is your blasted government, federal and state, simply refuses to collect mortality statistics in those areas, and government-required causes of mortality is what it would take to feed an assessment. And yes, I have checked CDC. There was a trained killer a few years ago who announced, with seeming pride and a fixed grin on his face, that "We Don’t Do Body Counts", and it applies to your politicians at home just as much as your military abroad. If you don't count them you don't have to account for them.

Here's some homelessness figures just to indicate how hard it is to get even an order of magnitude estimate of the problem. I'd be just as hard-pressed to find core statistics for premature deaths resulting from adequate food or basic healthcare. According to HUD's July 2010 Homeless Assessment Report to Congress, more than 1.59 million people spent at least one night in an emergency shelter or transitional housing program during 2010 reporting period, this is a 2.2 percent increase from 2009.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessn ... _countries



People who experience homelessness who die at a young age often are known to the health care system. Dr. O’Connell cites the results of a study of 119 chronically homeless individuals living on the streets of Boston from 2000 to 2004 (O’Connell & Swain, 2005). During the five-year study period, more than a quarter of the individuals died.



Homelessness Resource Center - Resource Homelessness Kills



When I last tried working it out, I came to a very rough estimate that around one in a thousand people resident in the USA died premature deaths each year from those three combined causes, and I deliberately tried to underestimate where there were alternative core numbers. The overall number I should have given as around a third of a million, not "millions". I didn't check.
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Post by Bruv »

Some American Food facts.

Blimey it's slow in here lately.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

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Bruv;1486247 wrote: Blimey it's slow in here lately.


I apologize, I'm keeping more balls in the air this week than seems feasible, to the extent that I even have a backlog of email to answer.
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China Government gets rich while killing its citizens?

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Did I miss something? Isn't China's government also responsible for the people's health care? How does it make sense to get rich making your people sick, then have to spend that money making them well?
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Saint_;1486267 wrote: Did I miss something? Isn't China's government also responsible for the people's health care? How does it make sense to get rich making your people sick, then have to spend that money making them well?


People who die of smoking-related illness cost less per lifetime than people who don't, because people who don't live longer and have more expensively drawn-out healthcare requirements - senility being high on the list.
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spot;1486275 wrote: People who die of smoking-related illness cost less per lifetime than people who don't, because people who don't live longer and have more expensively drawn-out healthcare requirements - senility being high on the list.


Oh! LOL! Wel then, it does makes sense! Make money off them fast, then let 'em die!
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Saint_;1486277 wrote: Oh! LOL! Wel then, it does makes sense! Make money off them fast, then let 'em die!


You American's have similar ideas, let everybody carry guns.

You have heard of Russian roulette, meet American roulette.
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Bruv;1486278 wrote: You American's have similar ideas, let everybody carry guns.

You have heard of Russian roulette, meet American roulette.


Oh no, that's completely different. In China, the government is killing the people. Here, we kill ourselves. That's freedom!
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I missed the news when smoking became a sin not only against G-D but all decent members of the human race.

Por favor,

Pass me a COHIBA
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tude dog;1486309 wrote: I missed the news when smoking became a sin not only against G-D but all decent members of the human race.

Por favor,

Pass me a COHIBA


Don't recall anyone claiming it is a sin.

It is pretty bad for one's health, though.
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Post by spot »

LarsMac;1486310 wrote: Don't recall anyone claiming it is a sin.
Presidente Generalissimo Supremo Eisenhower, October 1960: Hey, is that cigar from CUBA???
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spot;1486312 wrote: Presidente Generalissimo Supremo Eisenhower, October 1960: Hey, is that cigar from CUBA???


It was not until 62, that the embargo was put in place. By then, Ike was retired.
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Post by spot »

LarsMac;1486319 wrote: It was not until 62, that the embargo was put in place. By then, Ike was retired.
I misremembered, you're quite right - the October 1960 embargo was on material entering Cuba, the Kennedy embargo was on imports from Cuba and that would have been when cigars were hit.
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Post by tude dog »

LarsMac;1486310 wrote: Don't recall anyone claiming it is a sin.


Not saying anybody did. Just from my point of view the way some posters here demonize smoking.

LarsMac;1486310 wrote: It is pretty bad for one's health, though.


It can be.

Never known a good cigar more dangerous than an angry woman.
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tude dog;1486333 wrote: Not saying anybody did. Just from my point of view the way some posters here demonize smoking.



It can be.

Never known a good cigar more dangerous than an angry woman.


Well, the occasional cigar never hurt anyone. But we are talking cigarettes, here. That's a whole other story.
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Post by spot »

And chaw.
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I once did Agency work working for British America Tobacco & got to see the crap they put in the cigarettes. Only about a third of the contents of a cigarette is actually tobacco. The rest of it is made up of chemicals, supposedly to keep the cigarette burning at a controlled rate. The fact that the chemical used is far more addictive than nicotine is, of course, purely co-incidental. Furthermore, it is that chemical that is the biggest carcinogen, and it is that chemical that gives the ready made cigarettes their noxious stench, totally different to that of hand rolled ones, cigars, or even pipe tobacco.
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Indeed! A friend of mine read up on the chemicals in pre-rolled fags and was astounded at the hundreds of chemicals involved. One or two are actually radioactive, I understand....I would imagine this is background radioactivity, but still....
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Cigarette Ingredients - Chemicals in Cigarettes

Cigarette Ingredients | R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company
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FourPart;1486475 wrote: Cigarette Ingredients - Chemicals in Cigarettes

Cigarette Ingredients | R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company


Looks similar to the ingredients list my friend found. Frankenstein stuff!!
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Smaug;1486472 wrote: Indeed! A friend of mine read up on the chemicals in pre-rolled fags and was astounded at the hundreds of chemicals involved. One or two are actually radioactive, I understand....I would imagine this is background radioactivity, but still....


That's to glow in the dark!

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