This is very interesting. I was wondering about this myself. If you are an upper-management political type (read: pres, cabinet member, senator, etc.) I think it would be very easy to get "setup" by the ongoing bureaucratic organizations.
The reports, white papers, briefs, intelligence stats, etc., can all very very easily be written to accommodate almost any agenda - without overtly tipping off the reader that the reports have a bias.
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anastrophe
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if there were a huge conspiracy to wage war in the middle east et al, then the failure to find WMD's pretty much smacks that notion down: If the conspiracy were that deep, and that powerful, then WMD *would have been found* - how hard would it have been for a dishonest government conspiracy to miraculously "find" a few trailers that were filled with biological weapons? seriously, if this were a conspiracy, WMD's would definitely have been "found".
never ascribe to malice/conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
never ascribe to malice/conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
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Wolfowitz Cabal
I read briefs that were supposedly authored/sponsored by Condoleezza Rice. But since it was on an Internet site, I'm not sure of its authenticity.
I do have some insight about the Military's view of the world and the views of the politicians at home. My view and understanding on this subject is from the military's point of view. The scenario you write about hits pretty close to home on certain occasions that none of us can be proud of. It also is a good explanation on why there is often tension between the commander in the field and the commander in chief back home. The intel is the same, yet it is different because the briefs sent to the politicians are spun to fit a political agenda.
I'm being vague, aren't I? I'll leave it at that. :-2
plazul wrote: Yes, political appointees are supposed to prevent that but I can see how it would work.
Bush just didn't have the experience or the political skill to contrive this kind of scenario. 41 says he's 100% behind his son and doesn't give advice but I think dealing with his son is sort of like dealing with a kid who has joined a religious cult.
This administration has really pissed off the fiscal conservatives that used to run the show, and the war has really infuriated the isolationist wing of the Party. Only the religious right stands with them but that's a pretty huge constituency.
The members of the Wolfowitz cabal are a new breed of cat and I don't think the old timers know how to deal with them. have you reead any of their white papers?
I do have some insight about the Military's view of the world and the views of the politicians at home. My view and understanding on this subject is from the military's point of view. The scenario you write about hits pretty close to home on certain occasions that none of us can be proud of. It also is a good explanation on why there is often tension between the commander in the field and the commander in chief back home. The intel is the same, yet it is different because the briefs sent to the politicians are spun to fit a political agenda.
I'm being vague, aren't I? I'll leave it at that. :-2
plazul wrote: Yes, political appointees are supposed to prevent that but I can see how it would work.
Bush just didn't have the experience or the political skill to contrive this kind of scenario. 41 says he's 100% behind his son and doesn't give advice but I think dealing with his son is sort of like dealing with a kid who has joined a religious cult.
This administration has really pissed off the fiscal conservatives that used to run the show, and the war has really infuriated the isolationist wing of the Party. Only the religious right stands with them but that's a pretty huge constituency.
The members of the Wolfowitz cabal are a new breed of cat and I don't think the old timers know how to deal with them. have you reead any of their white papers?
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capt_buzzard
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One very frightening thing about the War in Iraq, is that the people of Iraq is never going to forgive the USA & UK.
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plazul
Wolfowitz and company made no secret about their desire to depose Saddam. Remember the famous letter to the Clinton Administration signed by him, Cheney, Perle, Rumsfeld, and the rest? And what about the infamous classified white paper that Wolfowitz wrote back in 1992 about (among other things) a preemptive war doctrine that's now become the Bush Doctrine? Plus, PNAC and the neo-con elite had been advocating for intervention in Iraq and Iran for quite some time. But they said it would take a "Pearl Harbor" sort of event in the United States to spark a war.
Stay tuned to the Senate Intelligence Committee hearings if you think the WMD debacle was just incompetence. Heads are going to roll and America is going to redefine its diplomatic relationship with Israel and Sharon's Likudists. Remember that you heard it here first.[/QU
if there were a huge conspiracy to wage war in the middle east et al, then the failure to find WMD's pretty much smacks that notion down: If the conspiracy were that deep, and that powerful, then WMD *would have been found* - how hard would it have been for a dishonest government conspiracy to miraculously "find" a few trailers that were filled with biological weapons? seriously, if this were a conspiracy, WMD's would definitely have been "found".
never ascribe to malice/conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
I don't think it a conspiracy so much as they really believe saddam was a threat and that americas interests are threatened in the middle east to the extent that they just don't see any intelligence evidence that contradicts their world view and cannot conceive that they might be wrong. It's almost a blind faith attitude that ignores anything that doesn't gel with their world view.
Watched a documentary last night on the middle east basically on how from having massive support post 911 america now has even the most pro american middle eastern nations turning against you. There was George Bush in an interview stating he could not understand why people hate america "we are the good guys". Well plenty are trying to get through to him but they are ignored it seems because thewy believe tye policy in iraq was right despite the fact there are more terrorists now than there there before and even moderates are beginning to support the suicide bombers in the sense that they can understand the sheer frusrtration that leads to such acts.
There never were millions of muslims wanting to attack america just very many that oppose your policies now there are millions that oppose your policy and the more you go on the more extremists there will be. Every muslim was not a terrorist, the only ever were a small group. The only way you can be attacked is by terrorist attack there isn't a country on the planet that would start a conventional war and you don't fight terrorists with massed armies and stealth fighters.
Iran is now going back in to the grip of hardliners because they are being threatened from outside and there is real fear that you are going to invade Iran next. The only way they can defend against america is to obtain nuclear weapons, far from preventing the spread nations are getting desperate to get their hands on them as they feel threatened. Far from curbing the terrorists the number has exloded out of all proportion and yet the Bush administration still thinks they are winning the war on terrorism.
No I don't think it's a conspiracy with malice aforethought it's just a strange world view that sees what it wants.
Stay tuned to the Senate Intelligence Committee hearings if you think the WMD debacle was just incompetence. Heads are going to roll and America is going to redefine its diplomatic relationship with Israel and Sharon's Likudists. Remember that you heard it here first.
Curious as to what you mean by that.
Wolfowitz and company made no secret about their desire to depose Saddam. Remember the famous letter to the Clinton Administration signed by him, Cheney, Perle, Rumsfeld, and the rest? And what about the infamous classified white paper that Wolfowitz wrote back in 1992 about (among other things) a preemptive war doctrine that's now become the Bush Doctrine? Plus, PNAC and the neo-con elite had been advocating for intervention in Iraq and Iran for quite some time. But they said it would take a "Pearl Harbor" sort of event in the United States to spark a war.
Stay tuned to the Senate Intelligence Committee hearings if you think the WMD debacle was just incompetence. Heads are going to roll and America is going to redefine its diplomatic relationship with Israel and Sharon's Likudists. Remember that you heard it here first.[/QU
if there were a huge conspiracy to wage war in the middle east et al, then the failure to find WMD's pretty much smacks that notion down: If the conspiracy were that deep, and that powerful, then WMD *would have been found* - how hard would it have been for a dishonest government conspiracy to miraculously "find" a few trailers that were filled with biological weapons? seriously, if this were a conspiracy, WMD's would definitely have been "found".
never ascribe to malice/conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
I don't think it a conspiracy so much as they really believe saddam was a threat and that americas interests are threatened in the middle east to the extent that they just don't see any intelligence evidence that contradicts their world view and cannot conceive that they might be wrong. It's almost a blind faith attitude that ignores anything that doesn't gel with their world view.
Watched a documentary last night on the middle east basically on how from having massive support post 911 america now has even the most pro american middle eastern nations turning against you. There was George Bush in an interview stating he could not understand why people hate america "we are the good guys". Well plenty are trying to get through to him but they are ignored it seems because thewy believe tye policy in iraq was right despite the fact there are more terrorists now than there there before and even moderates are beginning to support the suicide bombers in the sense that they can understand the sheer frusrtration that leads to such acts.
There never were millions of muslims wanting to attack america just very many that oppose your policies now there are millions that oppose your policy and the more you go on the more extremists there will be. Every muslim was not a terrorist, the only ever were a small group. The only way you can be attacked is by terrorist attack there isn't a country on the planet that would start a conventional war and you don't fight terrorists with massed armies and stealth fighters.
Iran is now going back in to the grip of hardliners because they are being threatened from outside and there is real fear that you are going to invade Iran next. The only way they can defend against america is to obtain nuclear weapons, far from preventing the spread nations are getting desperate to get their hands on them as they feel threatened. Far from curbing the terrorists the number has exloded out of all proportion and yet the Bush administration still thinks they are winning the war on terrorism.
No I don't think it's a conspiracy with malice aforethought it's just a strange world view that sees what it wants.
Stay tuned to the Senate Intelligence Committee hearings if you think the WMD debacle was just incompetence. Heads are going to roll and America is going to redefine its diplomatic relationship with Israel and Sharon's Likudists. Remember that you heard it here first.
Curious as to what you mean by that.
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anastrophe
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Wolfowitz Cabal
capt_buzzard wrote: One very frightening thing about the War in Iraq, is that the people of Iraq is never going to forgive the USA & UK.
i disagree. a small minority will never forgive the US and UK, but the majority will be quietly thankful for a long time. saddam's reign was repressive and brutal.
i disagree. a small minority will never forgive the US and UK, but the majority will be quietly thankful for a long time. saddam's reign was repressive and brutal.
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