Nuclear Oblivion?

illuminati · Post by **illuminati** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm

Osama bin Laden may soon have his hands on three Agosta 90B next-generation stealth submarines capable of carrying sixteen sea-to-land cruise missiles each. Those missiles can deliver atomic warheads. And Osama, I suspect, will have access to the forty nuclear warheads constructed by Pakistan.

Washington and New York, two primary targets for Al Qaeda, are near bodies of water from which these nuclear-tipped missiles can be launched. So are many other major American cities.

Here are the skeletal details:

http://www.howardbloom.net/Wakeup_or_Shutdown2.htm

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:05 pm

Thank you for this post. It's fodder for a good debate.

I doubt this will happen. An accident or a rogue event? Sure. That could happen with any country that has a sub.

Here's my take on this:

1. The U.S. Navy will be shadowing and monitoring these submarines by satellite and our own subs.

2. The Pakistanis are smart folks. Their high command will make sure that all safeguards are in place before these subs leave port. They recognize and understand the response they will get if they are responsible for a strike.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:56 am

I don't really believe the old Bin Liner ever walked this earth. Another one of G.W's Jokes.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:42 am

jayboy wrote:

Boy a few well placed nukes, could get them out of those mountains for sure, and they know it. No matter how much could be destroyed here, there will always be 2 military people, each with a key, in a catacomb in the western US of A, and they will not hesitate to launch a counter attack. Take that to the bank.
the problem there is that those nukes aren't targettable. their destinations are hard coded. true, they can be reprogrammed in advance, and who's to say a few haven't been repointed to the hills above pakistan/afghanistan.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:00 am

illuminati wrote: Osama bin Laden may soon have his hands on three Agosta 90B next-generation stealth submarines capable of carrying sixteen sea-to-land cruise missiles each. Those missiles can deliver atomic warheads. And Osama, I suspect, will have access to the forty nuclear warheads constructed by Pakistan.

Washington and New York, two primary targets for Al Qaeda, are near bodies of water from which these nuclear-tipped missiles can be launched. So are many other major American cities.

Here are the skeletal details:

http://www.howardbloom.net/Wakeup_or_Shutdown2.htm

My honest opinion for what's it worth. I believe this and the Iraq war and other wars that the American people have got themselves involved in was all another sham. The American people are being Used. Used to war on the Arab/Muslim nations. The same thing happened in Vietnam. America is the patsy, and they fall for it every time. And America is going to suffer for it. All these terrorists groups now Shout "Death to America". The United Kingdom, is not yet a full EU member, but she is in for a wakeup call too. The push is on. And God help us all. Wakeup America.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:45 am

capt_buzzard wrote: My honest opinion for what's it worth. I believe this and the Iraq war and other wars that the American people have got themselves involved in was all another sham. The American people are being Used. Used to war on the Arab/Muslim nations. The same thing happened in Vietnam. America is the patsy, and they fall for it every time. And America is going to suffer for it. All these terrorists groups now Shout "Death to America". The United Kingdom, is not yet a full EU member, but she is in for a wakeup call too. The push is on. And God help us all. Wakeup America.

"Death to America" has been shouted by malcontents for a hundred years.

until the rest of the world wakes up and commits the full force of their resources on violent religious extremists, they'll continue to hold the upper hand. cowards like spain will see more, not less violents. appeasing terrorists is madness.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:58 am

From 1979 to 1995, Pakistan was the headquarters for a group of "Afghan freedom fighters" who were not Afghans at all. They were an international army paid for by the US, Saudi Arabia, and China, armed by the CIA, and trained, in part, by China's Peoples Liberation Army. We trained an army of 50,000 men from 30 nations to bring down the Soviet Union's most advanced tanks, jets, and helicopters. Why? Our mutual goal was to embarrass a common enemy--the Russians. Chief among the recruits to our proxy Jihad were Osama bin Laden and the founding members of Al Qaeda.

Pakistan is the nation whose citizens rioted in the streets in 1989 over the title of a novel they didn't like--The Satanic Verses. It was Pakistan's street activists who forced the Ayatollah Khomeini to issue a Fatwa offering five million dollars to the Moslem who killed Salman Rushdie. The Pakistanis were more extreme than the most extremist Islamic leader of his day. And that was fifteen years ago! Since then anti-Americanism and anti-Westernism has grown.

Pakistan is also the nation that educated a generation of Afghan refugees who later went home to take over their country in the name of Islamic purity and justice. We know those refugees as the Taleban.

until the rest of the world wakes up and commits the full force of their resources on violent religious extremists, they'll continue to hold the upper hand. cowards like spain will see more, not less violents. appeasing terrorists is madness.

It is not about appeasing terrorists. Until america starts thinking about why people are beginning to shout death to america and stop assuming they're all deluded nutters you are going to get more terrorists not less. You can't flatten countries wholesale and think that solves the problem. If a few people in america think you are doing the right thing and the rest of the world is telling, no this is a very bad idea just maybe you should start listening.

Don't worry the pakistanis are going to want to keep their missiles to nuke india first.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:51 am

gmc wrote: It is not about appeasing terrorists. so spain did not appease the terrorists? is that what you're saying?

Until america starts thinking about why people are beginning to shout death to americaas i pointed out, this is not a new phenomenon. violent religious fanatics have been shouting 'death to america' for about a century. why do you think this is a new phenomenon?

and stop assuming they're all deluded nutters
so, anyone who happens to own a gun in the UK is a priori a 'nutter', even if they are non-violent. but religious fanatics who behead people are not?

you are going to get more terrorists not less. You can't flatten countries wholesale and think that solves the problem. what country have we flattened?

If a few people in america think you are doing the right thing and the rest of the world is telling, no this is a very bad idea just maybe you should start listening.
bollox. millions and millions of people here in the US support our actions in iraq. far more than the entire population of your cute little cluster of islands. many nations around the world support our action in iraq - if not with committed troops then by other means. saudi arabia is still our ally (that's a whole nuther kettle of fish, but the fact is, saudi arabia has not declared war on the US or our troops because of the iraq invasion). japan is still our ally. canada is still our ally. mexico is still our ally. countries all over the world agree with us, and other countries all over the world (well, mostly centered on the european peninsula) disagree with us.

'the rest of the world' - who are you to claim to speak for the rest of the world?

remarkably enough, there are still millions of people in iraq, and a great, great, many of the are glad we came in *even in light of the current problems with insurgents*. they'd rather have a fighting chance at finding their own destiny, rather than living in a religiously oppressed, opposition suppressed, brutal, thuggery like saddam hussein's reign.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:50 pm

I think G.W.Bush is a violent religious extremist was the third kind. Let him go back to playing computer games.He is not in the real world.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:56 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: I think G.W.Bush is a violent religious extremist was the third kind. Let him go back to playing computer games.He is not in the real world.
where on earth do you get the idea he's a religious extremist? seriously, i'd like some insight into this. quotes. transcripts. videos. anything that would support that notion.

if G.W. Bush is a religious extremist, then Bill Clinton was an extreme religious extremist. he was always talking about how much he prays, how he looks to god for guidance, we in the states were treated to photos practically once a month of him with family in tow traipsing off to church on sundays.

oh, wait. Bill Clinton was a democrat. So it's no problem when he talks about God. Republicans who talk about god are extremists. It's such a simple formula, i don't know how i overlooked it.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:59 pm

anastrophe wrote: so spain did not appease the terrorists? is that what you're saying?

as i pointed out, this is not a new phenomenon. violent religious fanatics have been shouting 'death to america' for about a century. why do you think this is a new phenomenon?

so, anyone who happens to own a gun in the UK is a priori a 'nutter', even if they are non-violent. but religious fanatics who behead people are not?

what country have we flattened?

bollox. millions and millions of people here in the US support our actions in iraq. far more than the entire population of your cute little cluster of islands. many nations around the world support our action in iraq - if not with committed troops then by other means. saudi arabia is still our ally (that's a whole nuther kettle of fish, but the fact is, saudi arabia has not declared war on the US or our troops because of the iraq invasion). japan is still our ally. canada is still our ally. mexico is still our ally. countries all over the world agree with us, and other countries all over the world (well, mostly centered on the european peninsula) disagree with us.

'the rest of the world' - who are you to claim to speak for the rest of the world?

remarkably enough, there are still millions of people in iraq, and a great, great, many of the are glad we came in *even in light of the current problems with insurgents*. they'd rather have a fighting chance at finding their own destiny, rather than living in a religiously oppressed, opposition suppressed, brutal, thuggery like saddam hussein's reign.

Saudi Arabia will be next on the list of Islamic terrorists take over. Turkey is suffering already with a bombing wave within in last few months. Anywhere there is American + N.A.T.O support, the terrorists are there also watching and waiting.

Iranian Islamic torrorists have said that by 2007 they would be nuclear ready to hit any city in Europe or the United States.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:15 pm

so spain did not appease the terrorists? is that what you're saying?

Spain has been fighting it;s own terrorist war for some considerable time. No the spanish did not appease terrorists they gave their government a lesson in democracy i.e. don't ignore the people.

Quote:

and stop assuming they're all deluded nutters

so, anyone who happens to own a gun in the UK is a priori a 'nutter', even if they are non-violent. but religious fanatics who behead people are not?

You lost me there. who mentioned the UK here?

Until america starts thinking about why people are beginning to shout death to america and stop assuming they're all deluded nutters you are going to get more terrorists not less.

Out of context. Tell me why do you think there is so much hostility to american policy in the middle east amongst those who live there? Forget islamic extremists for the moment many ordinary muslims don't approve of western policy in the middle-it's not just the US but you are just the biggest player.

saudi arabia is still our ally (that's a whole nuther kettle of fish, but the fact is, saudi arabia has not declared war on the US or our troops because of the iraq invasion).

Curious then that the terrorists who attacked you on 911 are from saudi.

what country have we flattened? Iraq springs to mind. it also looks as if you would like to flatten Iran, you do have a president who is all in favour of pre-emptive action that rather implies you want to flatten something.

'the rest of the world' - who are you to claim to speak for the rest of the world? I don't, have a look at other country's media see what they are saying.

as i pointed out, this is not a new phenomenon. violent religious fanatics have been shouting 'death to america' for about a century. why do you think this is a new phenomenon? The US used to be looked on as a beacon of freedom shining on the world. especially post ww2 as the old colonial empires gave up their colonies. Ho chi minh thought you were so did castro (don't take my word for it do some research. Something happened during the cold war to change all that. that's a whole conversation on it's own. So yes it is a relatively new phenomenon. It used to be just the japanese and germans that shouted it with any real feeling, now they are your allies

From 1979 to 1995, Pakistan was the headquarters for a group of "Afghan freedom fighters" who were not Afghans at all. They were an international army paid for by the US, Saudi Arabia, and China, armed by the CIA, and trained, in part, by China's Peoples Liberation Army. We trained an army of 50,000 men from 30 nations to bring down the Soviet Union's most advanced tanks, jets, and helicopters. Why? Our mutual goal was to embarrass a common enemy--the Russians. Chief among the recruits to our proxy Jihad were Osama bin Laden and the founding members of Al Qaeda.

You really don't get this do you? The above is not made up that is what actually happened, the taliban got to power with western aid. maybe if you hadn't funded terrorists in the first place there might not be this problem. Yes i am quite well aware that we were doing the same thing, I don't think much of that either.

bollox. millions and millions of people here in the US support our actions in iraq. far more than the entire population of your cute little cluster of islands. many nations around the world support our action in iraq - if not with committed troops then by other means.

If you feel that way about it why do you need our troops? I think you mean many governments I would not be so sure about their nations supporting you. Especially if things drag on.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:50 am

Who are Al Queada? When was it started? And who financed it?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:56 am

Who are Al Queada? When was it started? And who financed it?

http://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/Page23.html

http://www.cia.gov/terrorism/index.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/s ... 46,00.html

The last one in particular makes interesting reading-written in 1998.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:47 am

gmc wrote:

Quote:

as i pointed out, this is not a new phenomenon. violent religious fanatics have been shouting 'death to america' for about a century. why do you think this is a new phenomenon?

The US used to be looked on as a beacon of freedom shining on the world. especially post ww2 as the old colonial empires gave up their colonies. Ho chi minh thought you were so did castro (don't take my word for it do some research. Something happened during the cold war to change all that. that's a whole conversation on it's own. So yes it is a relatively new phenomenon. It used to be just the japanese and germans that shouted it with any real feeling, now they are your allies

Quote:

From 1979 to 1995, Pakistan was the headquarters for a group of "Afghan freedom fighters" who were not Afghans at all. They were an international army paid for by the US, Saudi Arabia, and China, armed by the CIA, and trained, in part, by China's Peoples Liberation Army. We trained an army of 50,000 men from 30 nations to bring down the Soviet Union's most advanced tanks, jets, and helicopters. Why? Our mutual goal was to embarrass a common enemy--the Russians. Chief among the recruits to our proxy Jihad were Osama bin Laden and the founding members of Al Qaeda.

You really don't get this do you? The above is not made up that is what actually happened, the taliban got to power with western aid. maybe if you hadn't funded terrorists in the first place there might not be this problem. Yes i am quite well aware that we were doing the same thing, I don't think much of that either.please don't do the above - quoting one person within a post, then switching to quoting a different person within the same post, but not identifying who that person is. the above section makes it appear that you are quoting and responding to me, but in fact you are quoting me in the first instance, then quoting someone else in the latter. that's both confusing, and has the potential for abuse - it's very important to identify who you are quoting. both as a matter of courtesy and of propriety.

thanks.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:00 pm

see your point, sorry.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:13 pm

anastrophe wrote: "Death to America" has been shouted by malcontents for a hundred years.

until the rest of the world wakes up and commits the full force of their resources on violent religious extremists, they'll continue to hold the upper hand. cowards like spain will see more, not less violents. appeasing terrorists is madness.

When President told the world about his War Against Terrorism. He excluded Ireland. Ireland today is a haven for terrorists. Its a jump pad for entry into the UK and the rest of Europe. We have the Basque Eta, PLO, IRA, and God know how many more.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:32 pm

capn buzzard

When President told the world about his War Against Terrorism. He excluded Ireland. Ireland today is a haven for terrorists. Its a jump pad for entry into the UK and the rest of Europe. We have the Basque Eta, PLO, IRA, and God know how many more

sssh you're not supposed to mention noraid, americans don't fund terrorists.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:33 pm

:wah: :wah: :wah:

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:50 pm

anastrophe wrote: where on earth do you get the idea he's a religious extremist? seriously, i'd like some insight into this. quotes. transcripts. videos. anything that would support that notion.

if G.W. Bush is a religious extremist, then Bill Clinton was an extreme religious extremist. he was always talking about how much he prays, how he looks to god for guidance, we in the states were treated to photos practically once a month of him with family in tow traipsing off to church on sundays.

oh, wait. Bill Clinton was a democrat. So it's no problem when he talks about God. Republicans who talk about god are extremists. It's such a simple formula, i don't know how i overlooked it.

He said that God told him to invade Iraq. Bush is no better than the Mullahs in Iran & Syria.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:56 pm

And who is going to man this submarine? Ex-Russian Navy men? The terrorists can't do it---they would get their turbans caught in the equipment.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:02 pm

:wah: :wah:

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:03 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: He said that God told him to invade Iraq. Bush is no better than the Mullahs in Iran & Syria.
please provide a valid citation. i think you're wrong.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:08 pm

I heard that on the BBC

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:46 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: I heard that on the BBC

probably editorial, rather than fact. i'm pretty sure he never said that.

xlt66 · Post by **xlt66** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:20 pm

The only other war I can think you are referring to is the Vietnam War. Ask France about how they abandoned Vietnam and dropped it in our laps.

What other wars are you referring to? WWI? WWII?

America is the only country left on the face of this earth that has the ability, the will, and the guts to fight evil. Europe lost its ability around the 1910's. The new EU is beginning to prance around like a cockeyed steroid fed peacock in heat. It, as usual, is all show and no go. A paper tiger with no convictions. The EU will be the first to fall when the heat gets turned up. Today Europe. Tomorrow Eurabia.

capt_buzzard wrote: My honest opinion for what's it worth. I believe this and the Iraq war and other wars that the American people have got themselves involved in was all another sham. The American people are being Used. Used to war on the Arab/Muslim nations. The same thing happened in Vietnam. America is the patsy, and they fall for it every time. And America is going to suffer for it. All these terrorists groups now Shout "Death to America". The United Kingdom, is not yet a full EU member, but she is in for a wakeup call too. The push is on. And God help us all. Wakeup America.

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:50 am

xlt 66, as a brit I will take issue with you on your analysis of Europe's fighting record. The UK may be an insignificant island on the northern edge of Europe but we have ALWAYS fought our corner and in our own small way are doing so now.

The point I think that was being made was that our politicians are the ones who lead us by the nose into these things. They then send in the uniforms to sort it out. The present iraqi campaign is a perfect example, I agree Saddam was a bad person and if we thought he should go then fair enough but tell me that, don't invent WMD and a link with Al Qaeeda (sic).

BTW I am trying to think of any terrorist conflict that has not ended up around the conference table. To quote a great briton whom i am sure you will discount as a weak European. "Jaw Jaw is better than War War" - Winston Churchill

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:17 am

capt_buzzard wrote: When President told the world about his War Against Terrorism. He excluded Ireland. Ireland today is a haven for terrorists. Its a jump pad for entry into the UK and the rest of Europe. We have the Basque Eta, PLO, IRA, and God know how many more.

You expect a US president to do anything at all about that? So that the USA could become a "legitimate target" for these people?? So as to upset the 90% of Americans who think they're of Irish descent, and that the people of Ireland are oppressed? Humph.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:40 pm

Whatever happened to little Bin Laden?

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:59 pm

All is quite on the Iranian Front, I wonder what the CIA did find when they flying around in those UFO's?;)