Jester;927626 wrote: oh my... so first you claim total impossiblity the cell calls can connect at 30,000 feet, now you claim they must have had higher help...
Alien in nature or is this claim purely a US government assist? And isnt this more speculation?
BTW how many cell calls from flight 93 were made?
I believe that the claim being made is that the 'phones could not have been on the 'planes - not that there was divine intervention.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;927630 wrote: So we have established that the airphone calls and the cell calls from all flights are ligit with the exception of Mr Olson's claiom regarding his wife.
How have you managed that?
How have you managed that?
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;927632 wrote: Interesting... so then you have proof the poeple who made them were not on the planes? That they were killed after being somehow coerced into making these calls?
I have proof of nothing - I'm interpreting to try to clear up the confusion.
I have proof of nothing - I'm interpreting to try to clear up the confusion.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;927647 wrote: That establishes that the call is real, now he has provide the proof that the government manipulated the location of the call and made this woman believe the caller was her husband, to include the panic necessary to make it believable, the timing, etc, for not just this one call but ALL the calls on that flight, in thier particular order, with same level of panic and fear, through mulitple partsof the coutnry...
Pease Bryn... this is insulting.
Not in the slightest.
The claim has been made that is is not possible to make a cellphone call from an aeroplane flying above two miles at a speed above 400MPH. It is implicit that the calls recorded as having been received were not made from an aeroplane.
It should be quite easy to prove that this is not the case - in the absence of such proof the claim remains outstanding.
Pease Bryn... this is insulting.
Not in the slightest.
The claim has been made that is is not possible to make a cellphone call from an aeroplane flying above two miles at a speed above 400MPH. It is implicit that the calls recorded as having been received were not made from an aeroplane.
It should be quite easy to prove that this is not the case - in the absence of such proof the claim remains outstanding.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;926028 wrote: Id ask you if you were kidding but I wont waste my breath... I know yer serious... Spot action after the fact to make something out of nothing is is no where near the caliber discussion we are having and that s all I have time for about your first two examples. But I'll throw in the fact that Miss Lynch should never had been where she was, and had america not caved into the weeny womens movement and placed her there in the first place it never would have happened. Mr Tillman wasn't any more important than any other volunteer, he just happened to be famous before he volunteered, for volunteering I hold him in the same high esteem as all the others. (including Miss Lynch)
That aside... Tell me how it all fits together then?
weeny?:p:wah:
Governments LIE!!!! (golden oldie)
Even when the truth sounds better!
jester wrote:
How in the world did 'they' time the planes and the explosions? It take bit more than only one fact out of order, that might make me suspicious, but it doesnt make a conspiracy.
Having prior knowledge,, insider intelligence of said event,,, time to prepare buildings,,,, to say that parts of the intelligence community wasn't communicating with Bin Laden during the ousting of the Soviet Union,, I would guess isn't something I would presume.,... Charlie Wilsons War,,, Charles denies ever seeing OBL in Afghanistan,,,,for the record...
The industrial complex is very large,, and very complex,, to say the least..
The Bush/Cia connection is also very large and complex,,, the Bush/bin laden families relationship is very interesting and I would bet,, very complex..
The watergate burglers never had to pay taxes either,,,
jester wrote:
The impossiblity of what you're suggesting is predominatly in my mind, convince me other wise if you can.
Two possibilities,,, find out what work was being perfomed on the building prior to 9/11,,, the nature of,,, hrs worked,, what companies,, where are they now,,
Maintenance,,, can be done in front of many a pencil pusher,,none the wiser..
jester wrote:
First who exacty are the conspirators?
Follow the money,, the dirt is too hard to find,,, besides the ones I believe needed it probably just paid cash after the fact,, and never dreamed it could actually work,,, but whose job it was to react in a normal fashion..SLICK
jester wrote:
How are they organized?
How is any covert action organized?
jester wrote:
How do they communicate?
Just like me and you,,, acc,,,spot,,Gal,,,
jester wrote:
How did they manage to manipulate and place and wire the charges necessary to stage the floors to collapse unto one another...and do it undetected???
And her's the most amazing question... Who paid them to stay so quiet about it?
And you regard the US government as a bunch of idiots in the first place arent you giving them vast credit for perpetrating this type of thing?
First of all,, the government is far from idiotic,, how long before you realize the benefits of incompetence? As does the Dumb Blonde!
The government falls in line with whatever their contributors need,, I don't really go after anyone who has the money to help me,, especially if it's more than I'm used to getting,, I would think if anyone felt cheated that knew anything they would tell,, so I can't believe a whole lot of people in government had any knowledge what-so-ever,,,
It's the buildings that give it up for me,, even tho Gal thinks its possible,, I can't believe they would fall exactly back into the ground the same way they went up!FOOTPRINT
I'm still hunting for clues that back up my Bush/BinLaden/CIAbyproxy/carlylegroup connection..
I have to throw some oil money in as well,, but I'm thinking that was more foreign involvement,, than ever,, but who can tell these days whats foreign and whats not anyway...
You ask some very good questions ,,Jester..
These are the questions that the media blacked out,,, they stopped a flow of info,, because the possibility of inside involvement would have crippled this country,,,,I have to believe,,,for my own sanity..
But I bet these questions all have very definite answers,,
I have to think its why OBL,, is still free,, if he isn't dead...
That aside... Tell me how it all fits together then?
weeny?:p:wah:
Governments LIE!!!! (golden oldie)
Even when the truth sounds better!
jester wrote:
How in the world did 'they' time the planes and the explosions? It take bit more than only one fact out of order, that might make me suspicious, but it doesnt make a conspiracy.
Having prior knowledge,, insider intelligence of said event,,, time to prepare buildings,,,, to say that parts of the intelligence community wasn't communicating with Bin Laden during the ousting of the Soviet Union,, I would guess isn't something I would presume.,... Charlie Wilsons War,,, Charles denies ever seeing OBL in Afghanistan,,,,for the record...
The industrial complex is very large,, and very complex,, to say the least..
The Bush/Cia connection is also very large and complex,,, the Bush/bin laden families relationship is very interesting and I would bet,, very complex..
The watergate burglers never had to pay taxes either,,,
jester wrote:
The impossiblity of what you're suggesting is predominatly in my mind, convince me other wise if you can.
Two possibilities,,, find out what work was being perfomed on the building prior to 9/11,,, the nature of,,, hrs worked,, what companies,, where are they now,,
Maintenance,,, can be done in front of many a pencil pusher,,none the wiser..
jester wrote:
First who exacty are the conspirators?
Follow the money,, the dirt is too hard to find,,, besides the ones I believe needed it probably just paid cash after the fact,, and never dreamed it could actually work,,, but whose job it was to react in a normal fashion..SLICK
jester wrote:
How are they organized?
How is any covert action organized?
jester wrote:
How do they communicate?
Just like me and you,,, acc,,,spot,,Gal,,,
jester wrote:
How did they manage to manipulate and place and wire the charges necessary to stage the floors to collapse unto one another...and do it undetected???
And her's the most amazing question... Who paid them to stay so quiet about it?
And you regard the US government as a bunch of idiots in the first place arent you giving them vast credit for perpetrating this type of thing?
First of all,, the government is far from idiotic,, how long before you realize the benefits of incompetence? As does the Dumb Blonde!
The government falls in line with whatever their contributors need,, I don't really go after anyone who has the money to help me,, especially if it's more than I'm used to getting,, I would think if anyone felt cheated that knew anything they would tell,, so I can't believe a whole lot of people in government had any knowledge what-so-ever,,,
It's the buildings that give it up for me,, even tho Gal thinks its possible,, I can't believe they would fall exactly back into the ground the same way they went up!FOOTPRINT
I'm still hunting for clues that back up my Bush/BinLaden/CIAbyproxy/carlylegroup connection..
I have to throw some oil money in as well,, but I'm thinking that was more foreign involvement,, than ever,, but who can tell these days whats foreign and whats not anyway...
You ask some very good questions ,,Jester..
These are the questions that the media blacked out,,, they stopped a flow of info,, because the possibility of inside involvement would have crippled this country,,,,I have to believe,,,for my own sanity..
But I bet these questions all have very definite answers,,
I have to think its why OBL,, is still free,, if he isn't dead...
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Galbally;927534 wrote: Dr J, I really don't think there is much point in explaining this, as I believe that most conspiracy theories become popular, not because they are plausible, but because there is something emotionally satisfying in thinking you know something everyone else doesn't. There certainly are real conspiracies, but they tend to be based on things that are easy to achieve, like corruption, assasinations, cartel-like business, political murder, extortion, crime.
For the record,, Gal
I could grasp that simple deduction if it weren't for the fact building 7 wasn't squealing so loud,,, and there wasn't any investigation of any other possibility until all the steel was hauled away,, sold over seas or destroyed,, and a thousand other things nobody even dared think to ask someone,,ANYONE!!
Why do demolition companies need to use so many cutting charges to produce this same effect if the top or middle floors is all that is needed?
Acc,, I'm on the molten steel found in the elevator shafts,, because of said explosions that never happen,, I will find your answer,,
Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II wrote:
"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
FREEDOM HAS NEVER BEEN FREE!!!
Why was the evidence, the metal parts of the collapsed towers, not kept to be analyzed? Why was the metal hauled away, with the aid of reputed underworld truckers, and then sold overseas to those nations pledging absolute secrecy of the contents? Certain flag officers contend their treasonous Commander-in-Chief, supervised by Daddy, ordered this to be done. — Sherman H. Skolnick: The Overthrow of the American Republic, Part 14
"THE OVERTHROW OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC", Part Fourteen
by Sherman H. Skolnick 9/02/02
Do ordinary Americans understand espionage? Probably not. The oil-soaked, spy-riddled monopoly press are not about to explain such things. Spies and such pretty much keep such matters to their own circle. Often, to understand current events, you have to have a good handle on the techniques of Empire.
It is no longer disputed. The United States of America has become the only remaining world power. Our enemies, once headquartered in Berlin, Rome, and Tokyo, are now trading partners with Washington, D.C. If they once tried to penetrate our secrets, to crush us, they now use their central banks to try to level off big movements against the so-called U.S. Dollar. And the Moscow government, once the center of our U.S.-created enemy, are now U.S. trading partners, ready to greatly supply our oil needs.
[See our prior website details on the US/USSR related books by Antony Sutton,as to the Moscow government.] To the American aristocracy, the true enemy has always been, and still is, the American common people. Unlike those overseas, we ordinary folk have never had a real revolution. Yet, we tend to be rebellious. Any great American populist prairie fire, that would tend to engulf the Central Government, has to be turned around. So aristocracy-selected and government-paid provocateurs have always been put in place to blunt the effects, for examples, of the Black/White Equal Rights demands, called the Civil Rights Movement, and the Anti-Viet Nam War movement.
Such gathering firestorms had to be and have to be controlled. So as to never point the flaming finger at the "Powers That Be":, the Establishment, the Ruling Class, or whatever else THEY are called.
In the years of those and related commotions, those of us who really understood, were heckled and kept from being widely heard. The doors of the monopoly press were closed to us. Or we were marginalized, as "conspiracy theorists", paranoid nuts, or worse. And, if you had not been heard THERE, then to many fellow Americans, you have not truly arrived. Those who the ultra rich could not any longer ignore, well, let us face it---the truth of what happened to them. Such as Malcolm X, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and a list of others, had to be assassinated and the bloody deeds falsely blamed on patsies and lone nuts. And the scapegoats, blamed for the crimes, did not know they were operating on parallel tracks from the true aristocracy-arranged assassins.
In this series of website stories, we have tried to explain the reasons for what is happening. At the moment, there are certainly many poorly-informed who would dismiss these explanations as merely unfounded theories. How many years until the dark truth is no longer disputed and dismissed?
A device of high-level deception is the use of the parallel tracks. Carefully insulated from one another, like wires in a heavy-duty two-wire cable. Not to save money, using cheap wiring kept apart by paper thin covering.
The events known as 911, may in time be considered as the most treasonous and outrageous examples of this type of the craft of intelligence. On one track are the Arabs. Is that difficult to unearth an example of history, and somehow mobilize the Christian World against the Moslem World? Was it made clear to us in studying history in the more ordinary schools, that the Moslems were the winners in the Crusades? And which group were really the infidels?
Notice the spy tricks. Right after the political assassination of President John F. Kennedy, the mass media, the newsfakers, were handed from the American CIA, the whole alleged background of the aristorcracy-designated "lone assassin", Lee Harvey Oswald. Similarly, right after 9-11, Black Tuesday, a portion of America's secret political police, the FBI, released supposed pictures and details of the alleged Moslem hi-jackers. In round-the-clock coverage following the events, the press whores carefully ignored undisputed details. Namely, that at least seven of the so-called FBI-fingered plane-grabbers, were alive, according to their next of kin, and that such persons never left their overseas locations. And, that someone apparently duplicated or stole their identities.
Also suppressed have been details that some of the purported hi-jackers were stationed if not actually trained on U.S. Military air force bases,where they also resided.
After all, censorship often is simply not mentioning known facts when and where it would enlighten readers, viewers, and listeners. The four commercial airplanes involved in Black Tuesday, were Boeing aircraft of a type and model which are equipped with perfected computer hardware and software installed for emergency ground control. On the one hand, the cockpit crew can send a silent signal to the ground controllers of an attempted hi-jacking in progress. The ground crew can then over-ride the airplane on-board computer and remotely cause the plane to land at the nearest possible airport capable of handling such a plane.
On the other hand, on behalf of a group within the American aristocracy, some treasonous U.S. military and other officers and operatives, in and out of the government, used the built-in system, UNKNOWN TO THE COCKPIT CREW and commotion-makers onboard, to make the airplane's onboard controls inoperative. So the planes were secretly controlled from the ground. Smashed up was the U.S. Constitution to promote a new Hitler, for America.
The airplanes' black boxes either have not been publicly revealed or have been tampered with. This, was for the purpose of concealing that neither the so-called "hi-jackers" nor the cockpit crew knew the planes were remotely controlled. The Cockpit Voice Recorders as well as the Flight Recorders were tampered with, so as to conceal the parallel track deception.The "black boxes" if ever publicly disclosed, would show how the cockpit crews vainly tried to regain control of the planes, the onboard controls of which were secretly over-ridden from the ground.
[As to tampering with airplane "black boxes" after a sabotaged plane crash, visit our website series, The Secret History of Airplane Sabotage.]
There are substantial questions whether ANY of the Arabs as would-be hi-jackers were on those planes. If they were, they were told it would be a standard hi-jacking. That is, with the plane and passengers held hostage while the plane was forced to land and worldwide publicized demands were made by the hi-jackers.
Not detailed in the monopoly press, some fire-fighters who survived Black Tuesday, contend there were explosions in the buildings, in a portion of the twin World Trade Center towers, separate and apart from the impact of the planes hitting the buildings. Was it a mere coincidence, that a company specializing in demotion of old, no longer needed tall buildings , was in charge of clearing away the debris after the WTC disasters? Were within-the-buildings explosives remotely triggered off to collapse the towers like done with old buildings? And there are good reasons to believe that within-the-building explosives caused the mysterious collapse, late on the evening of Black Tuesday, of World Trade Center Building 7.
To explain away growing questions about a U.S. Military stand-down the morning of Black Tuesday, the press whores are circulating stories. a year later, that only four un-armed military aircraft were available to guard the whole domestic Northeast section of the U.S. And that some of those pilots understood, or so they now say, that if necessary, they were to ram the airplanes in-flight, thus sacrificing their own lives.
In exclusive stories since 1995, we have told about the small group of flag officers, U.S. Admirals and Generals, who, invoking the Uniform Military Code, vowed to arrest Commander-in-Chief Clinton for treasonous dealings with Red China and others. If he had them arrested for mutiny, if they were not thereafter assassinated, they intended to defend themselves with documented charges of his treachery. Of the twenty-four so dedicated to trying to save the nation, several have been murdered, including Admiral Jeremy Boorda, Chief of Naval Operations, highest naval officer in uniform, and General David McCloud, head of the Alaska Military District. [Details are embedded in various of our prior website items.William Colby, former Director of Central Intelligence, assisting this group, was himself assassinated.]
Surviving flag officers, aware of the specific treason of 9-11, have made some details known to more independent-minded journalists. Like they vowed to do with Bush Crime Family crony, Bill Clinton, they would like to arrest Commander-in-Chief George W. Bush, and Daddy Bush, for the most infamous bloody crime against the American common people.
Who in the monopoly press dares ask a list of pointy questions? Why was the evidence, the metal parts of the collapsed towers, not kept to be analyzed? Why was the metal hauled away, with the aid of reputed underworld truckers, and then sold overseas to those nations pledging absolute secrecy of the contents? Certain flag officers contend their treasonous Commander-in-Chief, supervised by Daddy, ordered this to be done
Time will tell, whether we have a Congressional election in the usual manner. If confronted by a new, rebellious Congress, would Bushfraud (that is what we call the usurper), close down the U.S. parliament? He apparently has that power, referred to by a little known term, namely, to prorogue, that is, to order the discontinuance of a session of parliament.
More coming. Stay tuned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since 1958, Mr.Skolnick has been a court reformer. Since 1963, founder/chairman, Citizen's Committee to Clean Up the Courts, disclosing certain instances of judicial and other bribery and political murders. Since 1991 a regular panelist, and since 1995, moderator/producer, of one-hour,weekly public access Cable TV Show, "Broadsides", Cablecast on Channel 21, 9 p.m. each Monday in Chicago. For a heavy packet of printed stories, send $5.00 [U.S. funds] and a stamped, self-addressed business sized envelope [4-1/4 x 9-1/2 #10 size] WITH THREE STAMPS ON IT, to Citizen's Committee to Clean Up the Courts, Sherman H. Skolnick, Chairman, 9800 South Oglesby Ave., Chicago IL 60617-4870. Office, 7 days, 8 a.m. to midnight, (773) 375-5741 [PLEASE, no "just routine calls]. Before sending FAX, call.
For the record,, Gal
I could grasp that simple deduction if it weren't for the fact building 7 wasn't squealing so loud,,, and there wasn't any investigation of any other possibility until all the steel was hauled away,, sold over seas or destroyed,, and a thousand other things nobody even dared think to ask someone,,ANYONE!!
Why do demolition companies need to use so many cutting charges to produce this same effect if the top or middle floors is all that is needed?
Acc,, I'm on the molten steel found in the elevator shafts,, because of said explosions that never happen,, I will find your answer,,
Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II wrote:
"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
FREEDOM HAS NEVER BEEN FREE!!!
Why was the evidence, the metal parts of the collapsed towers, not kept to be analyzed? Why was the metal hauled away, with the aid of reputed underworld truckers, and then sold overseas to those nations pledging absolute secrecy of the contents? Certain flag officers contend their treasonous Commander-in-Chief, supervised by Daddy, ordered this to be done. — Sherman H. Skolnick: The Overthrow of the American Republic, Part 14
"THE OVERTHROW OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC", Part Fourteen
by Sherman H. Skolnick 9/02/02
Do ordinary Americans understand espionage? Probably not. The oil-soaked, spy-riddled monopoly press are not about to explain such things. Spies and such pretty much keep such matters to their own circle. Often, to understand current events, you have to have a good handle on the techniques of Empire.
It is no longer disputed. The United States of America has become the only remaining world power. Our enemies, once headquartered in Berlin, Rome, and Tokyo, are now trading partners with Washington, D.C. If they once tried to penetrate our secrets, to crush us, they now use their central banks to try to level off big movements against the so-called U.S. Dollar. And the Moscow government, once the center of our U.S.-created enemy, are now U.S. trading partners, ready to greatly supply our oil needs.
[See our prior website details on the US/USSR related books by Antony Sutton,as to the Moscow government.] To the American aristocracy, the true enemy has always been, and still is, the American common people. Unlike those overseas, we ordinary folk have never had a real revolution. Yet, we tend to be rebellious. Any great American populist prairie fire, that would tend to engulf the Central Government, has to be turned around. So aristocracy-selected and government-paid provocateurs have always been put in place to blunt the effects, for examples, of the Black/White Equal Rights demands, called the Civil Rights Movement, and the Anti-Viet Nam War movement.
Such gathering firestorms had to be and have to be controlled. So as to never point the flaming finger at the "Powers That Be":, the Establishment, the Ruling Class, or whatever else THEY are called.
In the years of those and related commotions, those of us who really understood, were heckled and kept from being widely heard. The doors of the monopoly press were closed to us. Or we were marginalized, as "conspiracy theorists", paranoid nuts, or worse. And, if you had not been heard THERE, then to many fellow Americans, you have not truly arrived. Those who the ultra rich could not any longer ignore, well, let us face it---the truth of what happened to them. Such as Malcolm X, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and a list of others, had to be assassinated and the bloody deeds falsely blamed on patsies and lone nuts. And the scapegoats, blamed for the crimes, did not know they were operating on parallel tracks from the true aristocracy-arranged assassins.
In this series of website stories, we have tried to explain the reasons for what is happening. At the moment, there are certainly many poorly-informed who would dismiss these explanations as merely unfounded theories. How many years until the dark truth is no longer disputed and dismissed?
A device of high-level deception is the use of the parallel tracks. Carefully insulated from one another, like wires in a heavy-duty two-wire cable. Not to save money, using cheap wiring kept apart by paper thin covering.
The events known as 911, may in time be considered as the most treasonous and outrageous examples of this type of the craft of intelligence. On one track are the Arabs. Is that difficult to unearth an example of history, and somehow mobilize the Christian World against the Moslem World? Was it made clear to us in studying history in the more ordinary schools, that the Moslems were the winners in the Crusades? And which group were really the infidels?
Notice the spy tricks. Right after the political assassination of President John F. Kennedy, the mass media, the newsfakers, were handed from the American CIA, the whole alleged background of the aristorcracy-designated "lone assassin", Lee Harvey Oswald. Similarly, right after 9-11, Black Tuesday, a portion of America's secret political police, the FBI, released supposed pictures and details of the alleged Moslem hi-jackers. In round-the-clock coverage following the events, the press whores carefully ignored undisputed details. Namely, that at least seven of the so-called FBI-fingered plane-grabbers, were alive, according to their next of kin, and that such persons never left their overseas locations. And, that someone apparently duplicated or stole their identities.
Also suppressed have been details that some of the purported hi-jackers were stationed if not actually trained on U.S. Military air force bases,where they also resided.
After all, censorship often is simply not mentioning known facts when and where it would enlighten readers, viewers, and listeners. The four commercial airplanes involved in Black Tuesday, were Boeing aircraft of a type and model which are equipped with perfected computer hardware and software installed for emergency ground control. On the one hand, the cockpit crew can send a silent signal to the ground controllers of an attempted hi-jacking in progress. The ground crew can then over-ride the airplane on-board computer and remotely cause the plane to land at the nearest possible airport capable of handling such a plane.
On the other hand, on behalf of a group within the American aristocracy, some treasonous U.S. military and other officers and operatives, in and out of the government, used the built-in system, UNKNOWN TO THE COCKPIT CREW and commotion-makers onboard, to make the airplane's onboard controls inoperative. So the planes were secretly controlled from the ground. Smashed up was the U.S. Constitution to promote a new Hitler, for America.
The airplanes' black boxes either have not been publicly revealed or have been tampered with. This, was for the purpose of concealing that neither the so-called "hi-jackers" nor the cockpit crew knew the planes were remotely controlled. The Cockpit Voice Recorders as well as the Flight Recorders were tampered with, so as to conceal the parallel track deception.The "black boxes" if ever publicly disclosed, would show how the cockpit crews vainly tried to regain control of the planes, the onboard controls of which were secretly over-ridden from the ground.
[As to tampering with airplane "black boxes" after a sabotaged plane crash, visit our website series, The Secret History of Airplane Sabotage.]
There are substantial questions whether ANY of the Arabs as would-be hi-jackers were on those planes. If they were, they were told it would be a standard hi-jacking. That is, with the plane and passengers held hostage while the plane was forced to land and worldwide publicized demands were made by the hi-jackers.
Not detailed in the monopoly press, some fire-fighters who survived Black Tuesday, contend there were explosions in the buildings, in a portion of the twin World Trade Center towers, separate and apart from the impact of the planes hitting the buildings. Was it a mere coincidence, that a company specializing in demotion of old, no longer needed tall buildings , was in charge of clearing away the debris after the WTC disasters? Were within-the-buildings explosives remotely triggered off to collapse the towers like done with old buildings? And there are good reasons to believe that within-the-building explosives caused the mysterious collapse, late on the evening of Black Tuesday, of World Trade Center Building 7.
To explain away growing questions about a U.S. Military stand-down the morning of Black Tuesday, the press whores are circulating stories. a year later, that only four un-armed military aircraft were available to guard the whole domestic Northeast section of the U.S. And that some of those pilots understood, or so they now say, that if necessary, they were to ram the airplanes in-flight, thus sacrificing their own lives.
In exclusive stories since 1995, we have told about the small group of flag officers, U.S. Admirals and Generals, who, invoking the Uniform Military Code, vowed to arrest Commander-in-Chief Clinton for treasonous dealings with Red China and others. If he had them arrested for mutiny, if they were not thereafter assassinated, they intended to defend themselves with documented charges of his treachery. Of the twenty-four so dedicated to trying to save the nation, several have been murdered, including Admiral Jeremy Boorda, Chief of Naval Operations, highest naval officer in uniform, and General David McCloud, head of the Alaska Military District. [Details are embedded in various of our prior website items.William Colby, former Director of Central Intelligence, assisting this group, was himself assassinated.]
Surviving flag officers, aware of the specific treason of 9-11, have made some details known to more independent-minded journalists. Like they vowed to do with Bush Crime Family crony, Bill Clinton, they would like to arrest Commander-in-Chief George W. Bush, and Daddy Bush, for the most infamous bloody crime against the American common people.
Who in the monopoly press dares ask a list of pointy questions? Why was the evidence, the metal parts of the collapsed towers, not kept to be analyzed? Why was the metal hauled away, with the aid of reputed underworld truckers, and then sold overseas to those nations pledging absolute secrecy of the contents? Certain flag officers contend their treasonous Commander-in-Chief, supervised by Daddy, ordered this to be done
Time will tell, whether we have a Congressional election in the usual manner. If confronted by a new, rebellious Congress, would Bushfraud (that is what we call the usurper), close down the U.S. parliament? He apparently has that power, referred to by a little known term, namely, to prorogue, that is, to order the discontinuance of a session of parliament.
More coming. Stay tuned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since 1958, Mr.Skolnick has been a court reformer. Since 1963, founder/chairman, Citizen's Committee to Clean Up the Courts, disclosing certain instances of judicial and other bribery and political murders. Since 1991 a regular panelist, and since 1995, moderator/producer, of one-hour,weekly public access Cable TV Show, "Broadsides", Cablecast on Channel 21, 9 p.m. each Monday in Chicago. For a heavy packet of printed stories, send $5.00 [U.S. funds] and a stamped, self-addressed business sized envelope [4-1/4 x 9-1/2 #10 size] WITH THREE STAMPS ON IT, to Citizen's Committee to Clean Up the Courts, Sherman H. Skolnick, Chairman, 9800 South Oglesby Ave., Chicago IL 60617-4870. Office, 7 days, 8 a.m. to midnight, (773) 375-5741 [PLEASE, no "just routine calls]. Before sending FAX, call.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;927831 wrote: You liked that weeny comment eh, glad I can add soem humor ot your day.
Yes governments do lie, they strethc the truth, leave out information etc. I'd rather have the truth for better or worse.
Of course I ask good questions.... but a question doesnt make proof in any form, and the questions I'm asking are obviously answered by the government.
All the question in the world not answered isn't proof. They are just questions.
I was experimenting with possible answers,, that may come to light,, or not..
I am just a regular everyday boring person,, I did not say in no way the people of government are on the take,, but to be honest,, with all these un-answered question,, I for 1 ,, just can't be sure...
As far as I know Jester,, hell your being paid to dispell any possible explanations,,:wah: you right wing protector of wedge issue master ,,you!:wah:
Your doin a "hell of a Job" too..
I'm kidding J
I do think taking 9/11 at face value is a mistake for all America,, I will hunt for the proof you seek till my last breath,,, I do believe no one should believe me until I prove it,, at least get those you do believe to explain all these smokey/smelly/funny things that mess with the story told...
This event isn't as original as everyone thinks,, people can do many things if they are informed correctly,,, All I'm tryin' to do,, is to get people to start asking the right questions,,, I think the people will take care of the rest,, as far as finding proof!
I do believe Bush Sr was director of CIA, this is the the only bush that counts in this area..
Bush Sr,, and Bin Laden sat on the board of directors of the Carlyle Group.. Need Proof of that?
Yes governments do lie, they strethc the truth, leave out information etc. I'd rather have the truth for better or worse.
Of course I ask good questions.... but a question doesnt make proof in any form, and the questions I'm asking are obviously answered by the government.
All the question in the world not answered isn't proof. They are just questions.
I was experimenting with possible answers,, that may come to light,, or not..
I am just a regular everyday boring person,, I did not say in no way the people of government are on the take,, but to be honest,, with all these un-answered question,, I for 1 ,, just can't be sure...
As far as I know Jester,, hell your being paid to dispell any possible explanations,,:wah: you right wing protector of wedge issue master ,,you!:wah:
Your doin a "hell of a Job" too..
I'm kidding J
I do think taking 9/11 at face value is a mistake for all America,, I will hunt for the proof you seek till my last breath,,, I do believe no one should believe me until I prove it,, at least get those you do believe to explain all these smokey/smelly/funny things that mess with the story told...
This event isn't as original as everyone thinks,, people can do many things if they are informed correctly,,, All I'm tryin' to do,, is to get people to start asking the right questions,,, I think the people will take care of the rest,, as far as finding proof!
I do believe Bush Sr was director of CIA, this is the the only bush that counts in this area..
Bush Sr,, and Bin Laden sat on the board of directors of the Carlyle Group.. Need Proof of that?
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;927664 wrote: I have ot head out now, im starving, but I got my calls out to my buddies that do communications. I'll report what they say and possble links as soon as I get them
If any of them say they have first-hand experience of voice calls with a cell phone from 30,000 feet then I'll accept I've made a mistake and be very relieved. Nobody, to my knowledge, has made such a claim. Lots of people have tried, lots of people have failed. I don't think it can happen.
If it can't happen, then those cell phone calls were obviously not made from planes at the height the hijack planes were reported. In the case of flight 93 that includes the flight recorder data.
This is the prime evidence that a US agency actively participated in 9/11. I'd be delighted if it were satisfactorily explained.
Even if it's explained, that still leaves US agencies passively participating in 9/11 by obstructing the interceptions.
Evidence for either is a matter of time and a political willingness to look under the stones. Meanwhile, nobody on the planet can make cell phone voice calls from planes at cruising altitude unless the date's 9/11/2001.
If any of them say they have first-hand experience of voice calls with a cell phone from 30,000 feet then I'll accept I've made a mistake and be very relieved. Nobody, to my knowledge, has made such a claim. Lots of people have tried, lots of people have failed. I don't think it can happen.
If it can't happen, then those cell phone calls were obviously not made from planes at the height the hijack planes were reported. In the case of flight 93 that includes the flight recorder data.
This is the prime evidence that a US agency actively participated in 9/11. I'd be delighted if it were satisfactorily explained.
Even if it's explained, that still leaves US agencies passively participating in 9/11 by obstructing the interceptions.
Evidence for either is a matter of time and a political willingness to look under the stones. Meanwhile, nobody on the planet can make cell phone voice calls from planes at cruising altitude unless the date's 9/11/2001.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;927664 wrote: Oh no sir, you see Spots claim is that the US government in connection with PNAC and specifically under GWBushes watch did deliberatly plan and carry out either a total negligence policy to allow the attacks, or knowingly perpetrated the act themselves...
Different claim - deal with one claim at a time and keep it simple. Either cellphone calls can be made from a high flying aircraft or they cannot.
Jester;927664 wrote: Three cell calls from a flight dont make that case, not in the slightest. There is obviously either a way it can happen with natural cells communication or they were totally faked in dramatic fashion. Simply claiming that these calls were not made from the aircraft leaves more unanswered questions that must be substantiated. And thats the problem with these conspiracy theories, they make a minute claim witout extended proof to follow it through, the end result is that its simply another unsubstantiated claim, a mere 'possiblity'... Its not even plausible in my opinion.
If such calls cannot be made from a high flying aircraft it is not important how they were faked, it becomes a proven lie which calls all other evidence from the same source into question.
Jester;927664 wrote: I have ot head out now, im starving, but I got my calls out to my buddies that do communications. I'll report what they say and possble links as soon as I get them
I'll be interested to hear the answer. Simple question "can a call be made from a high flying aircraft at 500mph using a standard cellphone"?
Different claim - deal with one claim at a time and keep it simple. Either cellphone calls can be made from a high flying aircraft or they cannot.
Jester;927664 wrote: Three cell calls from a flight dont make that case, not in the slightest. There is obviously either a way it can happen with natural cells communication or they were totally faked in dramatic fashion. Simply claiming that these calls were not made from the aircraft leaves more unanswered questions that must be substantiated. And thats the problem with these conspiracy theories, they make a minute claim witout extended proof to follow it through, the end result is that its simply another unsubstantiated claim, a mere 'possiblity'... Its not even plausible in my opinion.
If such calls cannot be made from a high flying aircraft it is not important how they were faked, it becomes a proven lie which calls all other evidence from the same source into question.
Jester;927664 wrote: I have ot head out now, im starving, but I got my calls out to my buddies that do communications. I'll report what they say and possble links as soon as I get them
I'll be interested to hear the answer. Simple question "can a call be made from a high flying aircraft at 500mph using a standard cellphone"?
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Bryn Mawr;927918 wrote: I'll be interested to hear the answer. Simple question "can a call be made from a high flying aircraft at 500mph using a standard cellphone"?Add: without a repeater in the aircraft. They're starting to experiment with effectively putting a mast into aircraft so there's a base station moving at the same speed within range, and relaying it to the network the way the Airphone connections go through. None of that existed in 2001.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
spot;927925 wrote: Add: without a repeater in the aircraft. They're starting to experiment with effectively putting a mast into aircraft so there's a base station moving at the same speed within range, and relaying it to the network the way the Airphone connections go through. None of that existed in 2001.
Then the communication is not from a standard cellphone - it's over a ship to shore radio.
Yes, new developments excepted :p
Then the communication is not from a standard cellphone - it's over a ship to shore radio.
Yes, new developments excepted :p
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Galbally;927573 wrote: This discussion is pointless.
I believe this discussion could lead to a new awareness in the minds of many,,
but I do understand that without proof,,(Government sanctioned info)
this to some is truly pointless,,
You know it could be possible,, the American people might have missed something,, in the "shock and awe" of it all!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.counterpunch.org/chomskyintv.html
An interesting site,, to say the least...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is about the demolition theory,,,,,, I wouldn't want to believe it,, even if it was 100% fact,,scary!
Reasonable people may and do disagree about the controlled demolition hypothesis, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is that “physical evidence” can be a tough angle to make stick, forensically speaking, especially now that most all of it’s been swept away.
That said, I’m morally certain (as the philosophers say) that the Towers were blown up. And that even if I’m eventually proven wrong (and I might be), there is every reason at present to defend the controlled demolition hypothesis. Here’s why.
Molten metal, in all likelihood steel, was found under WTC buildings One, Two and Seven. This metal appears on film of the site taken nearly six weeks after the attacks. Its presence was commented upon extensively by various officials and first responders at the site. It roiled and smoldered for many weeks, perhaps months. I live in New York and, along with millions of others, smelled that pile burning for nearly half a year after 9/11 (the longest uncontrolled fire in any city in US history, if I remember the article in the NY Times correctly). Anyone following the controversy has heard testimony from various witnesses, including firefighters and first responders, about the molten metal. Those of us here in the city probably remember reading articles about it. It was common knowledge in the weeks and months following the attacks. I’ve spoken at length with a first responder who’s active in the 9/11 Truth Movement and is very sick now; he testifies to what others on “the pile” reported seeing: flowing metal throughout the rubble following the attacks. A lot of it. He also confirms that the steel beam cut slant-wise was visible, very much as it appears in photos, when he first arrived at scene within an hour after Tower One “collapsed.”
Architect Bart Voorsanger, attempting to account for the survival of the North Tower’s antenna, clearly confirms the view that the molten metal underneath the rubble at Ground Zero was steel. Commenting on the antenna, which was made of steel, Voorsanger says, “It was the piece that collapsed onto everything else, and I think it must have fallen far enough away from the internal fires within the center of the Towers that it was not melted into some unrecognizable fused mass.” Here the man described by the Associated Press as having “headed the team of architects that retrieved trade center steel” is acknowledging what multiple eye-witnesses including engineering professionals working at Ground Zero, as well as video and “thermographic” aerial photography (not to mention scientists including Jones) all point to: that masses of molten steel roiled beneath the Towers for weeks, even months after they’d “collapsed.” There has been no rational explanation as to how this could have occurred without the use of explosives or some source of destructive energy other than hydrocarbons.
NIST appears to understand that no such explanation is possible, that the molten metal (most probably steel) is the Achilles heel of the official “collapse” narrative. Which is why NIST Engineer John Gross now simply denies that molten metal ever existed under the rubble pile.
Here we might identify the source of some of the rage being directed against you on this post. In the face of what appears to be a bald and arrogant ploy by authorities, one echoing all those others we’ve seen play out in official responses to almost every other aspect of the attacks, you — who’ve fought this battle bravely on so many fronts — appear to capitulate here, going weak in the knees, as if resigning the fight to hold on to the very history of 9/11 even as others risk their livelihoods and reputations to salvage and defend it.
Yes, the painstaking contextualization of the 9/11 attacks provided by Ahmed is essential and sadly under-emphasized in 9/11 studies. Caveats expressed by Sander Hicks and others concerning the “physical evidence” school of 9/11 skepticism are well-taken, at least by me. Clearly, even if we prove the CD hypothesis, knowing the buildings were blown up won’t tell us all or even most of what we need to know about 9/11.
But on the other hand, it isn’t fair (though it might appear far more respectable in some circles) to leave the matter at that, especially with the multiple indications in the public record indicating the possibility — make that the likelihood — of controlled demolition. Besides the molten metal issue, there’s the powerful and corroborating testimony from multiple eye-witnesses that has been categorized by David Ray Griffin into eleven categories of observed phenomena, each strongly indicative of, if not exclusive to, controlled demolition.
With the broad array of relevant data on the matter, 9/11 Truth appears on solid, even fruitful theoretical ground with the controlled demolition hypothesis, especially given the state of the aptly titled “collapse” theory, that “ever-changing, but always flimsy, story” in Kevin Ryan’s words, reliant on “anti-science” whose handful of actual proponents “started with their conclusions and worked backward to some ‘leading hypotheses.’” Of course the bitter fact remains that most of the evidence regarding the Towers’ destruction was hastily and, as has been strenuously argued from official corners, illegally destroyed. (Retired NYPD Officer Craig Bartmer, who labored at Ground Zero, reports rumors widely circulating on “the pile” that “the mob was stealing the steel.”) While certainly crippling to the material investigation, this destruction of evidence, protested vehemently in official quarters, in itself is highly indicative of official complicity. As with 9/11 in general, it is the broader context of the controlled demolition issue, more than any one or few of the multiple anomalies in the official account, where the charnel depths of state complicity come into focus.
The controlled demolition theory not only best explains the array of specific phenomena witnessed that day, it also points up some disturbing circumstances relating to security at the Towers complex prior to the attacks, and to the roles played by certain agencies — private, State and municipal — in 9/11 and the corrupt military/industrial power structure more generally. The controlled demolition hypothesis also begs [or rather, raises] some very serious questions pertaining to the precise nature, structure and tactics of state-sponsored terrorism, implying among other things the existence of a special forces unit whose expertise includes spectacular feats of mass human slaughter.
And then there’s the crux of the matter: the psychological angle.
Kevin Ryan, who was fired from his job with Underwriters Laboratories, the company that certified the steel components of the WTC, observes, “if we really want to zero in on the exact turning point around which we plunged into chaos, we need to focus in particular on the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings. This is where our hearts were wrenched and our minds were made ready for never-ending war, torture, and apparently the end of everything that was American. If we are ever to emerge from this insanity, we need to know how three tall buildings collapsed due to fire, all on the same day, when no such thing has ever happened before.”
As Ryan implies, whether we like it or not an intelligible account of what brought the Towers down is essential to determining the character and fate of our society. Short of any cogent explanation from our officials we are morally compelled to advocate the most consistent hypothesis regarding their destruction — however incredible we ourselves may find it.
Here I’ll quote from an essay in which I paraphrase and reflect on observations by Webster Tarpley: “the subliminal effects of 9/11 threaten to permanently distort our at-home-ness in reality, in the physical world, which on that day became a place where majestic state-of-the-art buildings, marvels of engineering and modernist architecture’s capstones, monuments (affirmed by cliché) to human ingenuity and spirit ... unpeeled so strangely to dust. The question of how the towers fell isn’t merely academic, but in some measure crucial to our psychological health as a people. If they were destroyed by explosives planted in the structures, then we’ve been compelled to accept a counterfeit view of physical reality, marking the radical intensification of a schizophrenic mindset already endemic in — and increasingly definitive of — Anglo-American culture.
“The effect of the Towers’ destruction is tied to the structures’ form as well as the place of the ‘tower’ and ‘twin’ archetypes in legend (whether in Tolkien, the Tarot or the Pentateuch for the former, or astrology, religious esoterism and classical myth for the latter). Anthropomorphic totems, the Twin Towers connoted a unity of two (or balanced duality), the harmonious couple (thus love, or lovers), or the self and its reflection: in short, completion, with the North Tower (with its antennae) the yang to the South’s yin (slightly recessive, as if, from the greater Manhattan perspective, backing the other up). Their destruction, then, was an eidetic inscription, rooted in mortal shock, of the shattering of unity, the failure of love, the death of the iconic companions, God’s wrathful judgment (ala Babel) upon our aspirations (and the futility of endeavor) and the fracture of communion (language, community — or logos, word or idea embodied ... meaning). Situated at the millennial cusp, at the crossroads of macrocosmic time and superhuman space, the structures’ spectacularly surreal dematerialization unmistakably declared the triumph of disunity, unreason, separation and loss — in short, the reign of antichrist, which 9/11 would appear to have been intended by certain of its architects to herald.”
I do not imply here that I necessarily believe that the fall of the Twin Towers announced the advent of the “end-times.” But I do believe their destruction reverberates as such an omen, however reflexively, among many in western society and beyond. And based upon express oligarchic intent to reduce Earth’s human population, I also take seriously the possibility that 9/11 was intended as such a harbinger by at least certain of its sponsors. And I certainly do not discount the possibility that the fears engendered by 9/11 might yet qualify it as the herald of a final judgment (perhaps in the form of nuclear or biological war), especially if they are not bravely, rationally and collectively confronted.
Tarpley warns that 9/11 plays into radical millenarian or “end-time” neuroses, exacerbating fears and paranoia exemplified by the many millions strong “Left Behind” or “rapture” movements, whose adherents — including former Attorney General John Ashcroft, implicated in facilitating 9/11 — have been powerful allies of the current administration. Investigating, determining and articulating more or less precisely how the Towers fell may be one of the central acts of demystification that breaks the pernicious spell under which 9/11, called by Tarpley the “myth of the 21st century,” holds the world. The “pancake collapse” is perhaps the chief idol of the official 9/11 cult to be smashed, as it appears to most effectively mask the iniquity of the attack’s actual sponsors.
To fathom what was taken from us on 9/11, recall the technological achievement represented by our shimmering Towers, once widely assumed — whatever their aesthetic flaws — to be masterpieces of engineering, state-of-the-art and revolutionary. The Twin Towers occupied a lineage of epic industrial expressions including the Brooklyn and Golden Gate Bridges, the Empire State Building, and the moon landing. In this sense they signified a soaring, celebratory triumph of our nation’s commitment to science, industry, technology and commerce, and were an enduring symbol of our collective ingenuity, ambition and intelligence. (Whoever expected to outlive them?) As the casual TV viewer understood, they could withstand hurricanes, earthquakes and jet-liner impacts. And most anyone watching that day knew they weren’t about to fall.
Here we may begin assessing the precise depths of our betrayal on 9/11. Again, one doesn’t need to have liked the Twin Towers — our blasé, even disdainful regard of them is the point. The extent to which we took them for granted marks our shock upon their destruction, in which we were faced with — and forced to swallow — our own failure as a culture to protect those left alive in the buildings, awaiting our rescue. Mistaking it for humility, we internalize this guilt, inducted into a collective masochism marked by a loss of analytical impetus, of which our acceptance of the simplistic pancake-collapse “theory” is symptomatic. Shamed children, we abide the illegal destruction of the rubble pile, eager to see our mess cleaned up, erased, and blamed on others.
Imagine one of the Towers collapsing without the handy scapegoat of a people whose natural resources we covet, and which our leaders had already divvied up. A lost or malfunctioning airliner had freakishly struck a Tower at high speed, let’s say. The building’s failure should have been an unacceptable err, a blow to our collective sense of ourselves so severe no resources would be spared in careful scrutiny of the event, as happens after catastrophes in societies valuing knowledge, quality, professionalism, craftsmanship, expertise and life. To recover our sense of ourselves, we would have taken every care — as healthy societies have throughout history — to articulate as precisely as possible the causal aspects of the disaster. Once the search for survivors was called off we’d have carefully and thoroughly scrutinized, documented and analyzed the scene. Recognizing that untold lives may depend on our investigation, that our findings could rewrite engineering code books, we would have encouraged a period of active and open debate, sparing no sacred cows, until clear, concise and reasonable explanations emerged as to why the Tower failed to live up to its revolutionary design.
On 9/11, the Twin Towers’ massive 47-interlinked-column core structure and 240 interlocking outer or “box” columns failed to impede the weight of the upper floors in their rush to the ground by so much as a second. Yet with next to none of it subjected to forensic examination, the rubble was hauled away as quickly as possible and nearly all of the steel sold as scrap on Asian markets. As Kevin Ryan notes, the NIST report, refusing to consider the controlled demolition hypothesis, dares take us only to the onset of the “collapse event,” after which its authors merely declare that “global” failure of the astonishing order observed was, somehow, “inevitable.” It takes twenty-two thousand pages of ignoring principles, observed phenomena, eyewitness reports, of distorting physical and computer models, fudging numbers and morphing variables, for NIST to swindle us into an abstruse combination of confessedly “less-likely” scenarios.
To register the wound dealt to our collective imagination on 9/11, we must appeal to archetype. The esoteric associations with the Twin Towers are profound. From Hebraic legend they reference the two great pillars Joachim and Boaz, placed at the entrance to Solomon’s Temple. Besides the ancient Hebrews, the Spartans, Phoenicians, Aryans and Scandinavians all associated the twin pillar motif with the presence of the deity. The Vedas refer to the twin Asvins, the Spartans to the Dioscuri, “clad in shining armor” and associated with clouds. The twin pillars: for the Greeks, symbols of Heracles (heroism), for the Scandinavians, of Thor (might). Legend associates them with Castor and Pollux, the twin brothers, one who gave his life for the other. They recall the twin Trees of Eden — Knowledge of Good and Evil (duality), and that of Eternal Life (unity) — as well as the Tree of Life diagram of Kabala, between whose pillars all is made manifest. For the Hebrews symbolizing establishment and strength, justice and mercy, as pillars of cloud by day and fire by night they led the Israelites from bondage, connoting a union of opposites, or harmony, fullness, the guidance and immanence of God.
Joachim and Boaz are central symbols of Freemasonry, bespeaking the resonance of the twin pillar motif at the deepest mythic strata of our cultural imagination. Guardians of the holy-of-holies, the twin pillars are ineluctably associated with mystery and initiation. Their magical destruction then, in the imago of the Twin Towers, is a sort of reverse, false or diabolic initiation into the realms of unreason, into the death or withdrawal of God. In the face of this threat to our image of the protective deity (or state) we accept the Towers’ “pancaking” and like raped or battered children turn the blame inward. With grasping sincerity, we acknowledge as dogma officialdom’s bloated appeal to its own authority.
What the controlled demolition hypothesis confronts us with is the likelihood that on September 11th, 2001, 2800 people were purposely — nay ritually — immolated, over a third of them vaporized beyond trace, while of many others mere fragments were found, some fleck of bone or viscera. This implies a most obscene affront to human dignity, blinding in the vastness of its degeneracy, a primordial and epic violation of a people by their leaders. Such cold-bloodedness is wholly distinct in character and degree from the comparably flaccid or sloppy negligence invoked by the LIHOP crowd, or the “roll ‘em” mentality naively attributed to complicit officials by those 9/11 skeptics who squirm at suggestions the planes may have been remotely guided into the buildings, or the buildings blown up.
You suggest in the previous post that Morgan Reynolds is a disinformation artist sent to emphasize the controlled demolition hypothesis in order to keep us barking up that tree. Yet if he is a plant, Reynolds may have intended what it appears he’s actually accomplishing, dividing a hitherto unified view on the destruction of the WTC with his “particle beam” theory and thereby inserting a timely “wedge” into an inquiry that was gaining traction. If so, he’d be accomplishing what Martin Schotz, a psychiatrist who’s studied the JFK assassination, points out is the real objective of disinformation, which is not to persuade us of the “official account” but to create so much uncertainty that “everything is believable and nothing is knowable.”
The molten metal. The multiple eye-witness accounts. The incessant bad-faith responses (forensically speaking, “guilty behavior”) on the part of defenders of the official story. The profound psychological implications. These are powerful inducements against letting the controlled theory die, as you verge on proposing.
Jeff, you call yourself a pessimist, and (if I may) I suspect you’re living up to that title here. That is, that your skepticism on the controlled demolitions issue has crossed into pessimism that we may ever arrive at the verification of CD which many of us might desire. Might your dismissal of CD be a sort of preemptive strike against what you subconsciously feel is the possibility that your hope for “proof” of a conspiracy will eventually be dashed anyway? A kind of beating-the-devil-to-the-punch? “The wolf who cannot reach the grapes claims they are sour.” We may never reach those grapes, Jeff, but I’m not through trying. And I respectfully submit that personal predilections and reasoned analysis may be blurring in your irked and seemingly wholesale rejection of CD.
As far as the Silverstein comment, it’s not that relevant. Though it sounds to me like he’s talking about the building and not the firefighters, as with the CD hypothesis, I could be wrong.
But of course I was down there on 9/11, about five blocks north of WTC 7, on the west edge of the West Side Highway. A loose bunch of us New Yorkers standing around had heard and passed on the message since maybe forty minutes before that “They’re going to bring it down.” And we were staring up at building 7 as it fell. But then again, who the f**k am I?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As regards Morgan Reynolds, almost everyone in the 9/11 truth movement has at some time been accused of being a disinfo artist by someone. This is a favorite tactic of disinfo artists, who try to make us believe that they are not, only others (who are actually getting close to the truth) are. A visit to Morgan Reynold's website is recommended.
Tom Breidenbach: None So Blind
The World Trade Center Demolition and the So-Called War on Terrorism
And tho I walk thru the valley of the shadow,,
I believe this discussion could lead to a new awareness in the minds of many,,
but I do understand that without proof,,(Government sanctioned info)
this to some is truly pointless,,
You know it could be possible,, the American people might have missed something,, in the "shock and awe" of it all!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.counterpunch.org/chomskyintv.html
An interesting site,, to say the least...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is about the demolition theory,,,,,, I wouldn't want to believe it,, even if it was 100% fact,,scary!
Reasonable people may and do disagree about the controlled demolition hypothesis, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is that “physical evidence” can be a tough angle to make stick, forensically speaking, especially now that most all of it’s been swept away.
That said, I’m morally certain (as the philosophers say) that the Towers were blown up. And that even if I’m eventually proven wrong (and I might be), there is every reason at present to defend the controlled demolition hypothesis. Here’s why.
Molten metal, in all likelihood steel, was found under WTC buildings One, Two and Seven. This metal appears on film of the site taken nearly six weeks after the attacks. Its presence was commented upon extensively by various officials and first responders at the site. It roiled and smoldered for many weeks, perhaps months. I live in New York and, along with millions of others, smelled that pile burning for nearly half a year after 9/11 (the longest uncontrolled fire in any city in US history, if I remember the article in the NY Times correctly). Anyone following the controversy has heard testimony from various witnesses, including firefighters and first responders, about the molten metal. Those of us here in the city probably remember reading articles about it. It was common knowledge in the weeks and months following the attacks. I’ve spoken at length with a first responder who’s active in the 9/11 Truth Movement and is very sick now; he testifies to what others on “the pile” reported seeing: flowing metal throughout the rubble following the attacks. A lot of it. He also confirms that the steel beam cut slant-wise was visible, very much as it appears in photos, when he first arrived at scene within an hour after Tower One “collapsed.”
Architect Bart Voorsanger, attempting to account for the survival of the North Tower’s antenna, clearly confirms the view that the molten metal underneath the rubble at Ground Zero was steel. Commenting on the antenna, which was made of steel, Voorsanger says, “It was the piece that collapsed onto everything else, and I think it must have fallen far enough away from the internal fires within the center of the Towers that it was not melted into some unrecognizable fused mass.” Here the man described by the Associated Press as having “headed the team of architects that retrieved trade center steel” is acknowledging what multiple eye-witnesses including engineering professionals working at Ground Zero, as well as video and “thermographic” aerial photography (not to mention scientists including Jones) all point to: that masses of molten steel roiled beneath the Towers for weeks, even months after they’d “collapsed.” There has been no rational explanation as to how this could have occurred without the use of explosives or some source of destructive energy other than hydrocarbons.
NIST appears to understand that no such explanation is possible, that the molten metal (most probably steel) is the Achilles heel of the official “collapse” narrative. Which is why NIST Engineer John Gross now simply denies that molten metal ever existed under the rubble pile.
Here we might identify the source of some of the rage being directed against you on this post. In the face of what appears to be a bald and arrogant ploy by authorities, one echoing all those others we’ve seen play out in official responses to almost every other aspect of the attacks, you — who’ve fought this battle bravely on so many fronts — appear to capitulate here, going weak in the knees, as if resigning the fight to hold on to the very history of 9/11 even as others risk their livelihoods and reputations to salvage and defend it.
Yes, the painstaking contextualization of the 9/11 attacks provided by Ahmed is essential and sadly under-emphasized in 9/11 studies. Caveats expressed by Sander Hicks and others concerning the “physical evidence” school of 9/11 skepticism are well-taken, at least by me. Clearly, even if we prove the CD hypothesis, knowing the buildings were blown up won’t tell us all or even most of what we need to know about 9/11.
But on the other hand, it isn’t fair (though it might appear far more respectable in some circles) to leave the matter at that, especially with the multiple indications in the public record indicating the possibility — make that the likelihood — of controlled demolition. Besides the molten metal issue, there’s the powerful and corroborating testimony from multiple eye-witnesses that has been categorized by David Ray Griffin into eleven categories of observed phenomena, each strongly indicative of, if not exclusive to, controlled demolition.
With the broad array of relevant data on the matter, 9/11 Truth appears on solid, even fruitful theoretical ground with the controlled demolition hypothesis, especially given the state of the aptly titled “collapse” theory, that “ever-changing, but always flimsy, story” in Kevin Ryan’s words, reliant on “anti-science” whose handful of actual proponents “started with their conclusions and worked backward to some ‘leading hypotheses.’” Of course the bitter fact remains that most of the evidence regarding the Towers’ destruction was hastily and, as has been strenuously argued from official corners, illegally destroyed. (Retired NYPD Officer Craig Bartmer, who labored at Ground Zero, reports rumors widely circulating on “the pile” that “the mob was stealing the steel.”) While certainly crippling to the material investigation, this destruction of evidence, protested vehemently in official quarters, in itself is highly indicative of official complicity. As with 9/11 in general, it is the broader context of the controlled demolition issue, more than any one or few of the multiple anomalies in the official account, where the charnel depths of state complicity come into focus.
The controlled demolition theory not only best explains the array of specific phenomena witnessed that day, it also points up some disturbing circumstances relating to security at the Towers complex prior to the attacks, and to the roles played by certain agencies — private, State and municipal — in 9/11 and the corrupt military/industrial power structure more generally. The controlled demolition hypothesis also begs [or rather, raises] some very serious questions pertaining to the precise nature, structure and tactics of state-sponsored terrorism, implying among other things the existence of a special forces unit whose expertise includes spectacular feats of mass human slaughter.
And then there’s the crux of the matter: the psychological angle.
Kevin Ryan, who was fired from his job with Underwriters Laboratories, the company that certified the steel components of the WTC, observes, “if we really want to zero in on the exact turning point around which we plunged into chaos, we need to focus in particular on the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings. This is where our hearts were wrenched and our minds were made ready for never-ending war, torture, and apparently the end of everything that was American. If we are ever to emerge from this insanity, we need to know how three tall buildings collapsed due to fire, all on the same day, when no such thing has ever happened before.”
As Ryan implies, whether we like it or not an intelligible account of what brought the Towers down is essential to determining the character and fate of our society. Short of any cogent explanation from our officials we are morally compelled to advocate the most consistent hypothesis regarding their destruction — however incredible we ourselves may find it.
Here I’ll quote from an essay in which I paraphrase and reflect on observations by Webster Tarpley: “the subliminal effects of 9/11 threaten to permanently distort our at-home-ness in reality, in the physical world, which on that day became a place where majestic state-of-the-art buildings, marvels of engineering and modernist architecture’s capstones, monuments (affirmed by cliché) to human ingenuity and spirit ... unpeeled so strangely to dust. The question of how the towers fell isn’t merely academic, but in some measure crucial to our psychological health as a people. If they were destroyed by explosives planted in the structures, then we’ve been compelled to accept a counterfeit view of physical reality, marking the radical intensification of a schizophrenic mindset already endemic in — and increasingly definitive of — Anglo-American culture.
“The effect of the Towers’ destruction is tied to the structures’ form as well as the place of the ‘tower’ and ‘twin’ archetypes in legend (whether in Tolkien, the Tarot or the Pentateuch for the former, or astrology, religious esoterism and classical myth for the latter). Anthropomorphic totems, the Twin Towers connoted a unity of two (or balanced duality), the harmonious couple (thus love, or lovers), or the self and its reflection: in short, completion, with the North Tower (with its antennae) the yang to the South’s yin (slightly recessive, as if, from the greater Manhattan perspective, backing the other up). Their destruction, then, was an eidetic inscription, rooted in mortal shock, of the shattering of unity, the failure of love, the death of the iconic companions, God’s wrathful judgment (ala Babel) upon our aspirations (and the futility of endeavor) and the fracture of communion (language, community — or logos, word or idea embodied ... meaning). Situated at the millennial cusp, at the crossroads of macrocosmic time and superhuman space, the structures’ spectacularly surreal dematerialization unmistakably declared the triumph of disunity, unreason, separation and loss — in short, the reign of antichrist, which 9/11 would appear to have been intended by certain of its architects to herald.”
I do not imply here that I necessarily believe that the fall of the Twin Towers announced the advent of the “end-times.” But I do believe their destruction reverberates as such an omen, however reflexively, among many in western society and beyond. And based upon express oligarchic intent to reduce Earth’s human population, I also take seriously the possibility that 9/11 was intended as such a harbinger by at least certain of its sponsors. And I certainly do not discount the possibility that the fears engendered by 9/11 might yet qualify it as the herald of a final judgment (perhaps in the form of nuclear or biological war), especially if they are not bravely, rationally and collectively confronted.
Tarpley warns that 9/11 plays into radical millenarian or “end-time” neuroses, exacerbating fears and paranoia exemplified by the many millions strong “Left Behind” or “rapture” movements, whose adherents — including former Attorney General John Ashcroft, implicated in facilitating 9/11 — have been powerful allies of the current administration. Investigating, determining and articulating more or less precisely how the Towers fell may be one of the central acts of demystification that breaks the pernicious spell under which 9/11, called by Tarpley the “myth of the 21st century,” holds the world. The “pancake collapse” is perhaps the chief idol of the official 9/11 cult to be smashed, as it appears to most effectively mask the iniquity of the attack’s actual sponsors.
To fathom what was taken from us on 9/11, recall the technological achievement represented by our shimmering Towers, once widely assumed — whatever their aesthetic flaws — to be masterpieces of engineering, state-of-the-art and revolutionary. The Twin Towers occupied a lineage of epic industrial expressions including the Brooklyn and Golden Gate Bridges, the Empire State Building, and the moon landing. In this sense they signified a soaring, celebratory triumph of our nation’s commitment to science, industry, technology and commerce, and were an enduring symbol of our collective ingenuity, ambition and intelligence. (Whoever expected to outlive them?) As the casual TV viewer understood, they could withstand hurricanes, earthquakes and jet-liner impacts. And most anyone watching that day knew they weren’t about to fall.
Here we may begin assessing the precise depths of our betrayal on 9/11. Again, one doesn’t need to have liked the Twin Towers — our blasé, even disdainful regard of them is the point. The extent to which we took them for granted marks our shock upon their destruction, in which we were faced with — and forced to swallow — our own failure as a culture to protect those left alive in the buildings, awaiting our rescue. Mistaking it for humility, we internalize this guilt, inducted into a collective masochism marked by a loss of analytical impetus, of which our acceptance of the simplistic pancake-collapse “theory” is symptomatic. Shamed children, we abide the illegal destruction of the rubble pile, eager to see our mess cleaned up, erased, and blamed on others.
Imagine one of the Towers collapsing without the handy scapegoat of a people whose natural resources we covet, and which our leaders had already divvied up. A lost or malfunctioning airliner had freakishly struck a Tower at high speed, let’s say. The building’s failure should have been an unacceptable err, a blow to our collective sense of ourselves so severe no resources would be spared in careful scrutiny of the event, as happens after catastrophes in societies valuing knowledge, quality, professionalism, craftsmanship, expertise and life. To recover our sense of ourselves, we would have taken every care — as healthy societies have throughout history — to articulate as precisely as possible the causal aspects of the disaster. Once the search for survivors was called off we’d have carefully and thoroughly scrutinized, documented and analyzed the scene. Recognizing that untold lives may depend on our investigation, that our findings could rewrite engineering code books, we would have encouraged a period of active and open debate, sparing no sacred cows, until clear, concise and reasonable explanations emerged as to why the Tower failed to live up to its revolutionary design.
On 9/11, the Twin Towers’ massive 47-interlinked-column core structure and 240 interlocking outer or “box” columns failed to impede the weight of the upper floors in their rush to the ground by so much as a second. Yet with next to none of it subjected to forensic examination, the rubble was hauled away as quickly as possible and nearly all of the steel sold as scrap on Asian markets. As Kevin Ryan notes, the NIST report, refusing to consider the controlled demolition hypothesis, dares take us only to the onset of the “collapse event,” after which its authors merely declare that “global” failure of the astonishing order observed was, somehow, “inevitable.” It takes twenty-two thousand pages of ignoring principles, observed phenomena, eyewitness reports, of distorting physical and computer models, fudging numbers and morphing variables, for NIST to swindle us into an abstruse combination of confessedly “less-likely” scenarios.
To register the wound dealt to our collective imagination on 9/11, we must appeal to archetype. The esoteric associations with the Twin Towers are profound. From Hebraic legend they reference the two great pillars Joachim and Boaz, placed at the entrance to Solomon’s Temple. Besides the ancient Hebrews, the Spartans, Phoenicians, Aryans and Scandinavians all associated the twin pillar motif with the presence of the deity. The Vedas refer to the twin Asvins, the Spartans to the Dioscuri, “clad in shining armor” and associated with clouds. The twin pillars: for the Greeks, symbols of Heracles (heroism), for the Scandinavians, of Thor (might). Legend associates them with Castor and Pollux, the twin brothers, one who gave his life for the other. They recall the twin Trees of Eden — Knowledge of Good and Evil (duality), and that of Eternal Life (unity) — as well as the Tree of Life diagram of Kabala, between whose pillars all is made manifest. For the Hebrews symbolizing establishment and strength, justice and mercy, as pillars of cloud by day and fire by night they led the Israelites from bondage, connoting a union of opposites, or harmony, fullness, the guidance and immanence of God.
Joachim and Boaz are central symbols of Freemasonry, bespeaking the resonance of the twin pillar motif at the deepest mythic strata of our cultural imagination. Guardians of the holy-of-holies, the twin pillars are ineluctably associated with mystery and initiation. Their magical destruction then, in the imago of the Twin Towers, is a sort of reverse, false or diabolic initiation into the realms of unreason, into the death or withdrawal of God. In the face of this threat to our image of the protective deity (or state) we accept the Towers’ “pancaking” and like raped or battered children turn the blame inward. With grasping sincerity, we acknowledge as dogma officialdom’s bloated appeal to its own authority.
What the controlled demolition hypothesis confronts us with is the likelihood that on September 11th, 2001, 2800 people were purposely — nay ritually — immolated, over a third of them vaporized beyond trace, while of many others mere fragments were found, some fleck of bone or viscera. This implies a most obscene affront to human dignity, blinding in the vastness of its degeneracy, a primordial and epic violation of a people by their leaders. Such cold-bloodedness is wholly distinct in character and degree from the comparably flaccid or sloppy negligence invoked by the LIHOP crowd, or the “roll ‘em” mentality naively attributed to complicit officials by those 9/11 skeptics who squirm at suggestions the planes may have been remotely guided into the buildings, or the buildings blown up.
You suggest in the previous post that Morgan Reynolds is a disinformation artist sent to emphasize the controlled demolition hypothesis in order to keep us barking up that tree. Yet if he is a plant, Reynolds may have intended what it appears he’s actually accomplishing, dividing a hitherto unified view on the destruction of the WTC with his “particle beam” theory and thereby inserting a timely “wedge” into an inquiry that was gaining traction. If so, he’d be accomplishing what Martin Schotz, a psychiatrist who’s studied the JFK assassination, points out is the real objective of disinformation, which is not to persuade us of the “official account” but to create so much uncertainty that “everything is believable and nothing is knowable.”
The molten metal. The multiple eye-witness accounts. The incessant bad-faith responses (forensically speaking, “guilty behavior”) on the part of defenders of the official story. The profound psychological implications. These are powerful inducements against letting the controlled theory die, as you verge on proposing.
Jeff, you call yourself a pessimist, and (if I may) I suspect you’re living up to that title here. That is, that your skepticism on the controlled demolitions issue has crossed into pessimism that we may ever arrive at the verification of CD which many of us might desire. Might your dismissal of CD be a sort of preemptive strike against what you subconsciously feel is the possibility that your hope for “proof” of a conspiracy will eventually be dashed anyway? A kind of beating-the-devil-to-the-punch? “The wolf who cannot reach the grapes claims they are sour.” We may never reach those grapes, Jeff, but I’m not through trying. And I respectfully submit that personal predilections and reasoned analysis may be blurring in your irked and seemingly wholesale rejection of CD.
As far as the Silverstein comment, it’s not that relevant. Though it sounds to me like he’s talking about the building and not the firefighters, as with the CD hypothesis, I could be wrong.
But of course I was down there on 9/11, about five blocks north of WTC 7, on the west edge of the West Side Highway. A loose bunch of us New Yorkers standing around had heard and passed on the message since maybe forty minutes before that “They’re going to bring it down.” And we were staring up at building 7 as it fell. But then again, who the f**k am I?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As regards Morgan Reynolds, almost everyone in the 9/11 truth movement has at some time been accused of being a disinfo artist by someone. This is a favorite tactic of disinfo artists, who try to make us believe that they are not, only others (who are actually getting close to the truth) are. A visit to Morgan Reynold's website is recommended.
Tom Breidenbach: None So Blind
The World Trade Center Demolition and the So-Called War on Terrorism
And tho I walk thru the valley of the shadow,,
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
spot;920031 wrote: Ooooh you chopped his text! "without help from cutting charges placed in just the right places" is what he said. It's the only way steel shell buildings ever pancake unless they come down on 9/11/2001 which is a special date when the laws of physics are deliberately suspended.
The inferno softened the steel structure.
Then the building pancaked down.
Sans charges.
I listened to the architect describe the effect, he forgot to calculate a Boeing 767 flying into the bldg when he created it.
Bet thats the last time he forgets that little detail.
The inferno softened the steel structure.
Then the building pancaked down.
Sans charges.
I listened to the architect describe the effect, he forgot to calculate a Boeing 767 flying into the bldg when he created it.
Bet thats the last time he forgets that little detail.
I AM AWESOME MAN
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Nomad;929952 wrote: The inferno softened the steel structure.
Then the building pancaked down.
Sans charges.
I listened to the architect describe the effect, he forgot to calculate a Boeing 767 flying into the bldg when he created it.
Bet thats the last time he forgets that little detail.
WTC7, that's the subject. No planes.
Then the building pancaked down.
Sans charges.
I listened to the architect describe the effect, he forgot to calculate a Boeing 767 flying into the bldg when he created it.
Bet thats the last time he forgets that little detail.
WTC7, that's the subject. No planes.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
In what order did the buildings come down? I know tower 2 fell before 1. What about 7?
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
spot;930006 wrote: WTC7, that's the subject. No planes.
Here is the explaination Popular Mechanics has given.
WTC 7 Collapse
Claim: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."
Fire Storm: WTC 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed Twin Towers. Damaged by falling debris, the building then endures a fire that rages for hours. Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)
FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.
According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... tml?page=5
Here is the explaination Popular Mechanics has given.
WTC 7 Collapse
Claim: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."
Fire Storm: WTC 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed Twin Towers. Damaged by falling debris, the building then endures a fire that rages for hours. Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)
FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.
According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... tml?page=5
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Accountable;930031 wrote: In what order did the buildings come down? I know tower 2 fell before 1. What about 7?
Around 5pm local time, from memory.
Around 5pm local time, from memory.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;921455 wrote: Thank you too...
Hey just back in town and I see a new av............
DAMB you r a handskum devil....... ur:-4
Hey just back in town and I see a new av............
DAMB you r a handskum devil....... ur:-4
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
DrJ;922829 wrote: Lets just say,, either that,, or the aliens done it,, and that would explain why there wern't any dead bodies found at the pentagon,,Spaceships man!:driving:
God Loves ya,, no matter what you believe Blind man!
I'll get back to you on that other thingy!
I don't know what that's called either,, but I am going to find out,,
Look if people want to believe everything is hunky dory about what 'we the people' have been told,,
well that's great,, but what if these same people get angry about something else and it is the Tr/Billionares of the world,, doing it,, their is nothing we can do about it..ANYWAY!!!!
Sorry just reading the thread and had to repost this garbble.........
This was me fav:
"I don't know what that's called either,, but I am going to find out,,"
HUH????????
What strikes me as weird in this thread also is that the wackos paint Pres. Bush as being dumb as a chimp.......... Oh really now? So how could this ignorant SOB pull off all of this SHIeT?
God Loves ya,, no matter what you believe Blind man!
I'll get back to you on that other thingy!
I don't know what that's called either,, but I am going to find out,,
Look if people want to believe everything is hunky dory about what 'we the people' have been told,,
well that's great,, but what if these same people get angry about something else and it is the Tr/Billionares of the world,, doing it,, their is nothing we can do about it..ANYWAY!!!!
Sorry just reading the thread and had to repost this garbble.........
This was me fav:
"I don't know what that's called either,, but I am going to find out,,"
HUH????????
What strikes me as weird in this thread also is that the wackos paint Pres. Bush as being dumb as a chimp.......... Oh really now? So how could this ignorant SOB pull off all of this SHIeT?
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Accountable;924863 wrote:
So now, about that question http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/sh...3&postcount=14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accountable
When the cutting charges are set off the building doesn't fall, right? It then requires that last charge, whatever it's called. What's it called? Anyway, that charge is at the bottom of the building, or am I mistaken (because I very easily could be)?
Hope u R not a holding your BREATH ACC........
If so You r a dead MAN:-3:-3:-3
So now, about that question http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/sh...3&postcount=14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accountable
When the cutting charges are set off the building doesn't fall, right? It then requires that last charge, whatever it's called. What's it called? Anyway, that charge is at the bottom of the building, or am I mistaken (because I very easily could be)?
Hope u R not a holding your BREATH ACC........
If so You r a dead MAN:-3:-3:-3
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Accountable;921290 wrote: Yes, only imported urine will do.
Golly made me search son................
Found this Russian site that sells "IMPORTED Urine"
SOOOOOOOOOOO If this is tru then maybe G. W. Bush felled these buildings???????
Check out this link:
http://www.translate.ru/url/tran_url.as ... bmit2.y=11
Yah he felled them ...... No doubt in my mind!!!!!
Golly made me search son................
Found this Russian site that sells "IMPORTED Urine"
SOOOOOOOOOOO If this is tru then maybe G. W. Bush felled these buildings???????
Check out this link:
http://www.translate.ru/url/tran_url.as ... bmit2.y=11
Yah he felled them ...... No doubt in my mind!!!!!
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by spot
Two problems. It's not just height, it's the 500 miles an hour bit as well, the handover between cell masts, the Doppler shift of the signal frequency. It's not designed to do that. The other is the height at which the calls were made - not at impact but when the planes were logged on the flight recorders over a mile high - in one case over 25,000 feet. It can't be done, and here the stories are of it being done multiple times. It's not true. Neither is "the planes had dropped below radar".
I also mentioned that the planes' routes across country would be pinpointed by the phone mast records if the calls were real, and no such mapping's ever been offered.
I thought earlier calls were from plane phones?
And is there a line of sight with cell towers like there is with my wireless receiver?
I'm just asking this stuff out of curiosity spot.... I firmly believe that bobby and john kennedy (who have been in hiding since their bogus assassinations) masterminded the entire plot with the help of special forces that trained for years in area 51 and the ultimate goal was to destroy the conservative republican stronghold on washington politics along with those capitalist pigs down on wall street. I agree that everyone listed on those passenger lists are most likely bogus names with actors(probably right wingers) hired to play the grieving families and friends of the 'alleged' victims. Why Pennsylvania then?.... you may well ask. check your facts pal. JFK owes Pennsylvania BIG TIME for coming through in 1960, and a Kennedy never forgets! Look at the tourism dollars that has been brought into that previously unheard of state!
Probably the hardest part was coming up with a feasible scapegoat like bin laden though. It just stretches the imagination to grasp the work that must have been involved in building up this bogeyman in the american publics eye, creating videos pro-ported to have been left behind by the bogus terrorists, convincing the stupid ass republicans to take the golden opportunity presented to them to hijack a war to get back at an enemy of bushes daddy and to finally -slowly but surely -turn the american public against that war and president to such an extent that the democrats can then offer up a black with a Muslim name as a viable presidential candidate....
What haven't I covered?:D
spot;927278 wrote: People died, floppy. I don't find any of this even slightly amusing.
And your BS is what???????????? Amusing? Factual? OR just BS????????
Originally Posted by spot
Two problems. It's not just height, it's the 500 miles an hour bit as well, the handover between cell masts, the Doppler shift of the signal frequency. It's not designed to do that. The other is the height at which the calls were made - not at impact but when the planes were logged on the flight recorders over a mile high - in one case over 25,000 feet. It can't be done, and here the stories are of it being done multiple times. It's not true. Neither is "the planes had dropped below radar".
I also mentioned that the planes' routes across country would be pinpointed by the phone mast records if the calls were real, and no such mapping's ever been offered.
I thought earlier calls were from plane phones?
And is there a line of sight with cell towers like there is with my wireless receiver?
I'm just asking this stuff out of curiosity spot.... I firmly believe that bobby and john kennedy (who have been in hiding since their bogus assassinations) masterminded the entire plot with the help of special forces that trained for years in area 51 and the ultimate goal was to destroy the conservative republican stronghold on washington politics along with those capitalist pigs down on wall street. I agree that everyone listed on those passenger lists are most likely bogus names with actors(probably right wingers) hired to play the grieving families and friends of the 'alleged' victims. Why Pennsylvania then?.... you may well ask. check your facts pal. JFK owes Pennsylvania BIG TIME for coming through in 1960, and a Kennedy never forgets! Look at the tourism dollars that has been brought into that previously unheard of state!
Probably the hardest part was coming up with a feasible scapegoat like bin laden though. It just stretches the imagination to grasp the work that must have been involved in building up this bogeyman in the american publics eye, creating videos pro-ported to have been left behind by the bogus terrorists, convincing the stupid ass republicans to take the golden opportunity presented to them to hijack a war to get back at an enemy of bushes daddy and to finally -slowly but surely -turn the american public against that war and president to such an extent that the democrats can then offer up a black with a Muslim name as a viable presidential candidate....
What haven't I covered?:D
spot;927278 wrote: People died, floppy. I don't find any of this even slightly amusing.
And your BS is what???????????? Amusing? Factual? OR just BS????????
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
spot;927330 wrote: The Administration needed a new Pearl Harbour and they got it on a plate. A lot of people were ordered to look the other way to allow it to happen, whoever did it.
So.....................
WHO DID IT?
So.....................
WHO DID IT?
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Galbally;927573 wrote: This discussion is pointless.
Things that GOOOOOOOOO Bump in the nite
(during the day..............FRIE-DAY de 25th oh JULIO)
To Quote Galbally............
"This discussion is pointless"
And I'm movin on Too Galbally.... (after 1 HR of readin) even tho there are a few more pages to read (I'm tired of the barbs and double talk)
But we ALL know G W Bush and his CHIMPS planned this WHOLE thing and he is a VERRRRRRY VERRRRY Smot man And ONLY he the CHIMP KING could have dun dis!!!!!!!!!
So I say G W BUSH blew up de buildings...Killed any that disagreed and THAT is THAT................
THrEARD OVER!!!!!!!!
TANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Things that GOOOOOOOOO Bump in the nite
(during the day..............FRIE-DAY de 25th oh JULIO)
To Quote Galbally............
"This discussion is pointless"
And I'm movin on Too Galbally.... (after 1 HR of readin) even tho there are a few more pages to read (I'm tired of the barbs and double talk)
But we ALL know G W Bush and his CHIMPS planned this WHOLE thing and he is a VERRRRRRY VERRRRY Smot man And ONLY he the CHIMP KING could have dun dis!!!!!!!!!
So I say G W BUSH blew up de buildings...Killed any that disagreed and THAT is THAT................
THrEARD OVER!!!!!!!!
TANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Nomad;929952 wrote: The inferno softened the steel structure.
Then the building pancaked down.
Sans charges.
I listened to the architect describe the effect, he forgot to calculate a Boeing 767 flying into the bldg when he created it.
Bet thats the last time he forgets that little detail.
:yh_rotfl,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl,,,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl
I wish I was as nieve,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,really!
I would act like I believe that as well,, but then there's,,,
Building 7,,,,,,,,,,,,Building 7,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Building 7
I've seen the charges misplaced,, the structure lose 30 ft,,,drop 30 ft,,
and remain standing,,, I guess some would have believed anything they said,,
no matter how silly it was,,
I guess its just easier for some to believe,,
The truth will come...
Then the building pancaked down.
Sans charges.
I listened to the architect describe the effect, he forgot to calculate a Boeing 767 flying into the bldg when he created it.
Bet thats the last time he forgets that little detail.
:yh_rotfl,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl,,,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl
I wish I was as nieve,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,really!
I would act like I believe that as well,, but then there's,,,
Building 7,,,,,,,,,,,,Building 7,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Building 7
I've seen the charges misplaced,, the structure lose 30 ft,,,drop 30 ft,,
and remain standing,,, I guess some would have believed anything they said,,
no matter how silly it was,,
I guess its just easier for some to believe,,
The truth will come...
-
Accountable
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America Had Better Wake Up!!!
DrJ;931054 wrote: :yh_rotfl,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl,,,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl
I wish I was as nieve,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,really!
I would act like I believe that as well,, but then there's,,,
Building 7,,,,,,,,,,,,Building 7,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Building 7
I've seen the charges misplaced,, the structure lose 30 ft,,,drop 30 ft,,
and remain standing,,, I guess some would have believed anything they said,,
no matter how silly it was,,
I guess its just easier for some to believe,,
The truth will come...
The same could be said for you & spot.
Question: during, say, and earthquake or military attack, has a building ever collapsed? Has one fallen like a tree? Has one pancaked?
Accountable;921263 wrote: When the cutting charges are set off the building doesn't fall, right? It then requires that last charge, whatever it's called. What's it called? Anyway, that charge is at the bottom of the building, or am I mistaken (because I very easily could be)?
I wish I was as nieve,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,really!
I would act like I believe that as well,, but then there's,,,
Building 7,,,,,,,,,,,,Building 7,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Building 7
I've seen the charges misplaced,, the structure lose 30 ft,,,drop 30 ft,,
and remain standing,,, I guess some would have believed anything they said,,
no matter how silly it was,,
I guess its just easier for some to believe,,
The truth will come...
The same could be said for you & spot.
Question: during, say, and earthquake or military attack, has a building ever collapsed? Has one fallen like a tree? Has one pancaked?
Accountable;921263 wrote: When the cutting charges are set off the building doesn't fall, right? It then requires that last charge, whatever it's called. What's it called? Anyway, that charge is at the bottom of the building, or am I mistaken (because I very easily could be)?
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
BTS;930556 wrote: Sorry just reading the thread and had to repost this garbble.........
This was me fav:
"I don't know what that's called either,, but I am going to find out,,"
HUH????????
What strikes me as weird in this thread also is that the wackos paint Pres. Bush as being dumb as a chimp.......... Oh really now? So how could this ignorant SOB pull off all of this SHIeT?
:-5,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-5
Mr B is just there for the ride,, I don't believe he's ever learned how to tie his own shoes,,, I believe his part in this play was to use the name to get elected,,,
Don't worry buddy,, you are not alone,, I believe a lot of people are confused,,
I mean who wants to believe this may have been an inside job?
I wish more people would Just look in the mirror,,,
and say the words,,,
I'm Confused,,I'm confused
I know it's hard on some,, I think its their pride,, stops us all,, from realizing,, we are sure of only two things here in America,,
DEATH and TAXES
This was me fav:
"I don't know what that's called either,, but I am going to find out,,"
HUH????????
What strikes me as weird in this thread also is that the wackos paint Pres. Bush as being dumb as a chimp.......... Oh really now? So how could this ignorant SOB pull off all of this SHIeT?
:-5,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-5
Mr B is just there for the ride,, I don't believe he's ever learned how to tie his own shoes,,, I believe his part in this play was to use the name to get elected,,,
Don't worry buddy,, you are not alone,, I believe a lot of people are confused,,
I mean who wants to believe this may have been an inside job?
I wish more people would Just look in the mirror,,,
and say the words,,,
I'm Confused,,I'm confused
I know it's hard on some,, I think its their pride,, stops us all,, from realizing,, we are sure of only two things here in America,,
DEATH and TAXES
-
Accountable
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America Had Better Wake Up!!!
DrJ;931060 wrote: I mean who wants to believe this may have been an inside job?
DrJ;929197 wrote: I really don't believe the US Government had anything to do with this attack!
DrJ wrote:
I'm Confused,,I'm confusedThat's apparent.
DrJ;929197 wrote: I really don't believe the US Government had anything to do with this attack!
DrJ wrote:
I'm Confused,,I'm confusedThat's apparent.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Accountable;931057 wrote: The same could be said for you & spot.
Question: during, say, and earthquake or military attack, has a building ever collapsed? Has one fallen like a tree? Has one pancaked?
My GOD man,, I think your on to something there,,,ACC...
I truly hope its me,,,thats wrong,,
This is a subject that should be hashed out,, because of the fact nothing was asked by the media of those incomplete facts,, dubious building info,,etc,,etc..
Do you believe it too late to be asking now?
I will say this,, if anything,, the building inspectors of NY, NY,,, have alot to answer for,,, and if people let these thugs get away with this,, it will happen over and over and over until some of these Blind Americans,, clean the She-it out of their eyes,, and at least start to question,
How do people get their heads stuck in their own rear and not even realize it?
I haven't found nothing on what your asking about as yet,,,
I believe some confusion is added to these threads on purpose,,,:-5
Another conspiracy!!!
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Dis-information People; I know who you are!!!!!!!!!Bwahahahahaha
I don't think the Govt.,,,is in on this,, just a select few in the right spots.
Just like on these threads in all forums,,
At least your paying Attention,,,which is my goal,,ACC
Question: during, say, and earthquake or military attack, has a building ever collapsed? Has one fallen like a tree? Has one pancaked?
My GOD man,, I think your on to something there,,,ACC...
I truly hope its me,,,thats wrong,,
This is a subject that should be hashed out,, because of the fact nothing was asked by the media of those incomplete facts,, dubious building info,,etc,,etc..
Do you believe it too late to be asking now?
I will say this,, if anything,, the building inspectors of NY, NY,,, have alot to answer for,,, and if people let these thugs get away with this,, it will happen over and over and over until some of these Blind Americans,, clean the She-it out of their eyes,, and at least start to question,
How do people get their heads stuck in their own rear and not even realize it?
I haven't found nothing on what your asking about as yet,,,
I believe some confusion is added to these threads on purpose,,,:-5
Another conspiracy!!!
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Dis-information People; I know who you are!!!!!!!!!Bwahahahahaha
I don't think the Govt.,,,is in on this,, just a select few in the right spots.
Just like on these threads in all forums,,
At least your paying Attention,,,which is my goal,,ACC
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Accountable
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America Had Better Wake Up!!!
What's the point in paying attention when there's nothing there? I'm not asking rhetorical questions. You set yourself up as some kind of expert in building demolition. You've yet to answer one of my questions. Am I wasting my time?
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Accountable;931073 wrote: What's the point in paying attention when there's nothing there? I'm not asking rhetorical questions. You set yourself up as some kind of expert in building demolition. You've yet to answer one of my questions. Am I wasting my time?
C'mon buddy,, I haven't set up anything about me,, except I am in the trade that puts sky-scrapers together,, I worked at a nuke plant that was being demolished,,
These guys have engineers who draw up plans to take 'em down,, the same as we do,,putting them up.. any mistake is shown in the finished product..
They demo-ed a stadium on the same spot we built the new one,, all at the same time,, I am an Ironworker,, the demo men appreciate our work in ways regular people will never understand,, especially those that explain them 3 free-falling buildings were caused by only 2 planes!
I believe they knew that most people would be ignorant of the realities,, just as the woman at the car mechanics garage,, they could almost say anything and people would accept it as gospel..
As for the few that knew better,,well,, its a democracy,, and when you can buy the media,, or when you own the media,,,,, they knew they could get away with just about anything...
I feel like the guy that passed thru to the other side and came back,,
and tried to describe heaven to his family,, who were atheists,,
its hilarious to me,, and when the truth comes out you will remember!
C'mon buddy,, I haven't set up anything about me,, except I am in the trade that puts sky-scrapers together,, I worked at a nuke plant that was being demolished,,
These guys have engineers who draw up plans to take 'em down,, the same as we do,,putting them up.. any mistake is shown in the finished product..
They demo-ed a stadium on the same spot we built the new one,, all at the same time,, I am an Ironworker,, the demo men appreciate our work in ways regular people will never understand,, especially those that explain them 3 free-falling buildings were caused by only 2 planes!
I believe they knew that most people would be ignorant of the realities,, just as the woman at the car mechanics garage,, they could almost say anything and people would accept it as gospel..
As for the few that knew better,,well,, its a democracy,, and when you can buy the media,, or when you own the media,,,,, they knew they could get away with just about anything...
I feel like the guy that passed thru to the other side and came back,,
and tried to describe heaven to his family,, who were atheists,,
its hilarious to me,, and when the truth comes out you will remember!
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
DrJ;931078 wrote: C'mon buddy,, I haven't set up anything about me,, except I am in the trade that puts sky-scrapers together,, I worked at a nuke plant that was being demolished,,
These guys have engineers who draw up plans to take 'em down,, the same as we do,,putting them up.. any mistake is shown in the finished product..
They demo-ed a stadium on the same spot we built the new one,, all at the same time,, I am an Ironworker,, the demo men appreciate our work in ways regular people will never understand,, especially those that explain them 3 free-falling buildings were caused by only 2 planes!
I believe they knew that most people would be ignorant of the realities,, just as the woman at the car mechanics garage,, they could almost say anything and people would accept it as gospel..
As for the few that knew better,,well,, its a democracy,, and when you can buy the media,, or when you own the media,,,,, they knew they could get away with just about anything...
I feel like the guy that passed thru to the other side and came back,,
and tried to describe heaven to his family,, who were atheists,,
its hilarious to me,, and when the truth comes out you will remember!
So what you're saying is that because one part of this whole deal doesn't make immediate sense in your limited experience, then nothing that the gov't says can possibly true. Since the explanation about Bldg 7 doesn't fit your paradigm, then radical muslims could not possibly have hijacked those aircraft. The guys that (obviously, in your mind) lied about Bldg 7 by default have made up every detail out of whole cloth and none of it is true?
ETA: Actually I'm relieved because that means that they didn't really kill over 3000 people. :yh_sweat
These guys have engineers who draw up plans to take 'em down,, the same as we do,,putting them up.. any mistake is shown in the finished product..
They demo-ed a stadium on the same spot we built the new one,, all at the same time,, I am an Ironworker,, the demo men appreciate our work in ways regular people will never understand,, especially those that explain them 3 free-falling buildings were caused by only 2 planes!
I believe they knew that most people would be ignorant of the realities,, just as the woman at the car mechanics garage,, they could almost say anything and people would accept it as gospel..
As for the few that knew better,,well,, its a democracy,, and when you can buy the media,, or when you own the media,,,,, they knew they could get away with just about anything...
I feel like the guy that passed thru to the other side and came back,,
and tried to describe heaven to his family,, who were atheists,,
its hilarious to me,, and when the truth comes out you will remember!
So what you're saying is that because one part of this whole deal doesn't make immediate sense in your limited experience, then nothing that the gov't says can possibly true. Since the explanation about Bldg 7 doesn't fit your paradigm, then radical muslims could not possibly have hijacked those aircraft. The guys that (obviously, in your mind) lied about Bldg 7 by default have made up every detail out of whole cloth and none of it is true?
ETA: Actually I'm relieved because that means that they didn't really kill over 3000 people. :yh_sweat
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Accountable;931164 wrote: So what you're saying is that because one part of this whole deal doesn't make immediate sense in your limited experience, then nothing that the gov't says can possibly true. Since the explanation about Bldg 7 doesn't fit your paradigm, then radical muslims could not possibly have hijacked those aircraft. The guys that (obviously, in your mind) lied about Bldg 7 by default have made up every detail out of whole cloth and none of it is true?
ETA: Actually I'm relieved because that means that they didn't really kill over 3000 people. :yh_sweat
I catch myself doing it too,,,ACC
Reading every other line and thinking I'm getting the whole picture,,
so you are forgiven,,,
All I'm sayin,,,is,,
The terrorists weren't just muslims!~!
Go back and read again,, Teach
What's your job here ACC,, pick out comments out of context to co confuse the masses?:wah:
ETA: Actually I'm relieved because that means that they didn't really kill over 3000 people. :yh_sweat
I catch myself doing it too,,,ACC
Reading every other line and thinking I'm getting the whole picture,,
so you are forgiven,,,
All I'm sayin,,,is,,
The terrorists weren't just muslims!~!
Go back and read again,, Teach
What's your job here ACC,, pick out comments out of context to co confuse the masses?:wah:
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Accountable
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America Had Better Wake Up!!!
DrJ;931170 wrote: I catch myself doing it too,,,ACC
Reading every other line and thinking I'm getting the whole picture,,
so you are forgiven,,,
All I'm sayin,,,is,,
The terrorists weren't just muslims!~!
Go back and read again,, Teach
What's your job here ACC,, pick out comments out of context to co confuse the masses?:wah:
Answer a question.
Reading every other line and thinking I'm getting the whole picture,,
so you are forgiven,,,
All I'm sayin,,,is,,
The terrorists weren't just muslims!~!
Go back and read again,, Teach
What's your job here ACC,, pick out comments out of context to co confuse the masses?:wah:
Answer a question.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Accountable;931057 wrote: The same could be said for you & spot.
Question: during, say, and earthquake or military attack, has a building ever collapsed? Has one fallen like a tree? Has one pancaked?
Are these your questions?
You might as well ask me if a tree falls in the middle of the jungle and no -ones around to hear,, does it make a noise?
Seriously tho,, I have never seen or heard of a building pancaking that wasn't pulled by cutting charges...
I believe the WTC towers 1 and 2,, should have fallen like a tree,, if at all..
All investigations were kept secret,, I think you could find out easy enough how long it would have took the fire to melt the steel,, but from the lack of resistance on the collapse from beams and columns that weren't on fire,, I have to believe the buildings had help..
Their trying to say Building 7's problem was from heating oil,,:yh_rotfl
I love it,,,the CIA,,,FBI,,,were done in by foriegn oil!!!
How Ironic,,of a story!
Where's Jester with those 30,000 ft supersonic cell phones!
Question: during, say, and earthquake or military attack, has a building ever collapsed? Has one fallen like a tree? Has one pancaked?
Are these your questions?
You might as well ask me if a tree falls in the middle of the jungle and no -ones around to hear,, does it make a noise?
Seriously tho,, I have never seen or heard of a building pancaking that wasn't pulled by cutting charges...
I believe the WTC towers 1 and 2,, should have fallen like a tree,, if at all..
All investigations were kept secret,, I think you could find out easy enough how long it would have took the fire to melt the steel,, but from the lack of resistance on the collapse from beams and columns that weren't on fire,, I have to believe the buildings had help..
Their trying to say Building 7's problem was from heating oil,,:yh_rotfl
I love it,,,the CIA,,,FBI,,,were done in by foriegn oil!!!
How Ironic,,of a story!
Where's Jester with those 30,000 ft supersonic cell phones!
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Accountable
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America Had Better Wake Up!!!
I'll rearrange them for ya.
When the cutting charges are set off
the building doesn't fall, right?
It then requires that last charge, whatever it's called. What's it called? Anyway, that charge is at the bottom of the building, or am I mistaken (because I very easily could be)?
During, say, and earthquake or military attack,
has a building ever collapsed?
Has one fallen like a tree?
Has one pancaked? DrJ: I have never seen or heard of a building pancaking that wasn't pulled by cutting charges...
One. I guess that's one more than I could reasonably expect, so thanks.
When the cutting charges are set off
the building doesn't fall, right?
It then requires that last charge, whatever it's called. What's it called? Anyway, that charge is at the bottom of the building, or am I mistaken (because I very easily could be)?
During, say, and earthquake or military attack,
has a building ever collapsed?
Has one fallen like a tree?
Has one pancaked? DrJ: I have never seen or heard of a building pancaking that wasn't pulled by cutting charges...
One. I guess that's one more than I could reasonably expect, so thanks.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;931277 wrote: Yes I'd like proof of that laden-bush sr connection on the carlysle group.Seriously? Bin Laden Family Liquidates Holdings With Carlyle Group
By KURT EICHENWALD
Published: October 26, 2001
The Saudi family of Osama bin Laden is severing its financial ties with the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm known for its connections to influential Washington political figures, executives who have been briefed on the decision said today.
The decision, reached late last week, was by mutual agreement, a senior executive with the investment firm said. It came largely as a result of public controversy about the family's stake in a Carlyle fund that invests in buyouts of military and aerospace companies, the executive said. After the Sept. 11 attacks, the investment was criticized amid speculation that the family might profit from increased military spending from America's war on terrorism. ''This wasn't done because anyone thought they did anything wrong,'' the Carlyle executive said. ''We didn't do it with relish or great glee. We felt and they felt that it was something that was causing more attention than it deserved, so we both decided it made sense, given the circumstances, to liquidate the position.''
[...]
In recent years, Frank C. Carlucci, the chairman of Carlyle and a former secretary of defense, has visited the family's headquarters in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, as have former President George Bush and James A. Baker III, the former secretary of state. Mr. Bush works as an adviser to Carlyle, and Mr. Baker is a partner in the firm.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9679C8B63
By KURT EICHENWALD
Published: October 26, 2001
The Saudi family of Osama bin Laden is severing its financial ties with the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm known for its connections to influential Washington political figures, executives who have been briefed on the decision said today.
The decision, reached late last week, was by mutual agreement, a senior executive with the investment firm said. It came largely as a result of public controversy about the family's stake in a Carlyle fund that invests in buyouts of military and aerospace companies, the executive said. After the Sept. 11 attacks, the investment was criticized amid speculation that the family might profit from increased military spending from America's war on terrorism. ''This wasn't done because anyone thought they did anything wrong,'' the Carlyle executive said. ''We didn't do it with relish or great glee. We felt and they felt that it was something that was causing more attention than it deserved, so we both decided it made sense, given the circumstances, to liquidate the position.''
[...]
In recent years, Frank C. Carlucci, the chairman of Carlyle and a former secretary of defense, has visited the family's headquarters in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, as have former President George Bush and James A. Baker III, the former secretary of state. Mr. Bush works as an adviser to Carlyle, and Mr. Baker is a partner in the firm.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9679C8B63
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
America Had Better Wake Up!!!
Jester;931727 wrote: My answer is coming, I have one more expert to confirm with then I'll lay it out. But I need to confirm the actual altitude of flight 93.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc04.pdf page 21
(the refering page is http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc04.pdf page 21
(the refering page is http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm)
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.