zinkyusa wrote: Did you guys ever see any of the Saturday Night Live skits with Will Farrell playing Bush? They usually have some guy playing Cheney dressed in a white tee shirt hitting the childlike Bush with a newspaper for some slip of tongue to the press..or have him playing in the corner while Al Gore and Katherine Harris argue about the election. Hilarious.
We don't get to see the new SNL (as far as I know) although I used to enjoy watching them when I was a kid. Tbh there isn't one satirical show or impressionist that doesn't show bush as at best the banjo kid from Deliverance. I am enjoying The Daily Show though, we get it one day behind you and it's often laugh out loud funny!
Katy
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Except I heard that the Banjo Kid knew who the Prime Minister of Pakistan was lol.
Katy
Katy
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
I've wondered about the people who think this was all faked....were the phone calls from the planes faked, too? I realize conspiracy theorists work very hard at "proving" themselves correct...so how do they explain all those calls?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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LilacDragon
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Lulu2 wrote: I've wondered about the people who think this was all faked....were the phone calls from the planes faked, too? I realize conspiracy theorists work very hard at "proving" themselves correct...so how do they explain all those calls?
So, let me understand - someone faked two planes crashing into the Twin Towers and one crashing into the Pentagon and the one that crashed into the field? How to they justify alllllllllllllllllll of the pictures that people have of the events?
So, let me understand - someone faked two planes crashing into the Twin Towers and one crashing into the Pentagon and the one that crashed into the field? How to they justify alllllllllllllllllll of the pictures that people have of the events?
Sandi
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
It would seem that they actually do believe this, L'D! Haven't you seen all the stuff claiming the WTC was, in fact, DETONATED? Go to snopes.com and look at 9/11 conspiracy theories....it's mind-boggling. Many people deny that a plane even HIT the pentagon!
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Lulu2 wrote: It would seem that they actually do believe this, L'D! Haven't you seen all the stuff claiming the WTC was, in fact, DETONATED? Go to snopes.com and look at 9/11 conspiracy theories....it's mind-boggling. Many people deny that a plane even HIT the pentagon!
Don't be silly, how could a plane possibly hit the Pentagon - it's the best defended building in the country!
:wah:
Don't be silly, how could a plane possibly hit the Pentagon - it's the best defended building in the country!
:wah:
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LilacDragon
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Lulu2 wrote: It would seem that they actually do believe this, L'D! Haven't you seen all the stuff claiming the WTC was, in fact, DETONATED? Go to snopes.com and look at 9/11 conspiracy theories....it's mind-boggling. Many people deny that a plane even HIT the pentagon!
Hey, the current administration is not beyond lying, cheating, and stealing from the American people but I am not so sure that blowing up civilians at work is something that it would do.
Hey, the current administration is not beyond lying, cheating, and stealing from the American people but I am not so sure that blowing up civilians at work is something that it would do.
Sandi
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
There's a very interesting article in the Sept. 11 issue of "TIME" on why the 9/11 conspiracy (theories) won't go away.
The conclusion? "Turns out, we need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the wrold just seems to random."
(Yet another example of the human need to find order and patterns so we can follow them to a conclusion.)
The conclusion? "Turns out, we need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the wrold just seems to random."
(Yet another example of the human need to find order and patterns so we can follow them to a conclusion.)
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Lulu2 wrote: There's a very interesting article in the Sept. 11 issue of "TIME" on why the 9/11 conspiracy (theories) won't go away.
The conclusion? "Turns out, we need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the wrold just seems to random."
(Yet another example of the human need to find order and patterns so we can follow them to a conclusion.)
Nice way to rubbish inconvenient "facts" without having to disprove them?
The conclusion? "Turns out, we need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the wrold just seems to random."
(Yet another example of the human need to find order and patterns so we can follow them to a conclusion.)
Nice way to rubbish inconvenient "facts" without having to disprove them?
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brazenhead
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
I don't believe the american administration were complicit in 9/11, I don't think they have the nerve, the means or the brains to orchestrate something of that magnitude (theorists everywhere start to shake their heads and tut tut to themselves !)
If the Bush administration wanted to create a problem/reaction/solution mandate for invading Iraq and Afghanistan I could think of a million easier ways they could have done it, than to hire "patsy's", get them into the country, train them etc then get them to fly planes into skyscrapers.
I think they were guilty of complacency in not paying attention to the intelligence that was in general circulation that the attack was going to happen and how it was going to happen. I remember the look on Bush's face when he was told what had happened while reading about the goat in that school classroom !
He didn't have a clue what to do, or say, or how to react !
If the Bush administration wanted to create a problem/reaction/solution mandate for invading Iraq and Afghanistan I could think of a million easier ways they could have done it, than to hire "patsy's", get them into the country, train them etc then get them to fly planes into skyscrapers.
I think they were guilty of complacency in not paying attention to the intelligence that was in general circulation that the attack was going to happen and how it was going to happen. I remember the look on Bush's face when he was told what had happened while reading about the goat in that school classroom !
He didn't have a clue what to do, or say, or how to react !
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Accountable
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Bryn Mawr wrote: Don't be silly, how could a plane possibly hit the Pentagon - it's the best defended building in the country!
:wah:That shows incredibly poor taste.
:wah:That shows incredibly poor taste.
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Accountable
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Bryn Mawr wrote: Nice way to rubbish inconvenient "facts" without having to disprove them?So, do I infer correctly that you think the AlQueida attack was actually carried out by the US government?
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Adam Zapple
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Boy, the US Government has been planning this for a long, long time.
President Kennedy, known for separating his life into compartments, would enclose words and numbers inside circles and boxes. Events long after his death give one doodle an unintended chill: A small circle with the numbers "9-11" contained within. Just to the lower left on the page, the word "conspiracy" is underlined.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060919/ap_ ... _doodles_1
Apparently, they've been planning to blow up the towers even before they were built. A stroke of genius..."build them and they will fall."
President Kennedy, known for separating his life into compartments, would enclose words and numbers inside circles and boxes. Events long after his death give one doodle an unintended chill: A small circle with the numbers "9-11" contained within. Just to the lower left on the page, the word "conspiracy" is underlined.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060919/ap_ ... _doodles_1
Apparently, they've been planning to blow up the towers even before they were built. A stroke of genius..."build them and they will fall."
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Think it might've been aliens, whispering in JFK's ear?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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anastrophe
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
marilyn monroe certainly would have been the perfect cover for an alien, so i'd have to say yes.
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Lulu2 wrote: I've wondered about the people who think this was all faked....were the phone calls from the planes faked, too? I realize conspiracy theorists work very hard at "proving" themselves correct...so how do they explain all those calls?Lulu, do you seriously believe it's possible to make cellphone calls from a jet at cruising altitude? You do know that the people receiving them said they got Caller ID on some of these calls claiming to be made from the flights? You do know that nobody anywhere has ever made such cellphone calls on any other day from any other plane? Rather than "how do they explain all those calls" - how do you? Is it your experience that cellphone calls can be placed midway through a flight? Do you honestly believe they ever could be?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Accountable
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
spot wrote: Lulu, do you seriously believe it's possible to make cellphone calls from a jet at cruising altitude? You do know that the people receiving them said they got Caller ID on some of these calls claiming to be made from the flights? You do know that nobody anywhere has ever made such cellphone calls on any other day from any other plane? Rather than "how do they explain all those calls" - how do you? Is it your experience that cellphone calls can be placed midway through a flight? Do you honestly believe they ever could be?So, do I infer correctly that you think the AlQueida attack was actually carried out by the US government?
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Accountable wrote: So, do I infer correctly that you think the AlQueida attack was actually carried out by the US government?Why the hell else do you think I'm so incandescently furious with the administration responsible? Of course I do. If I liked Americans less as people I'd be less annoyed with what's being done to them.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Anyone interested in what the arguments and assumed evidence are that the US gov't engineered the attacks should see
this free documentary
I was not open to any of the conspiracy theories...and still don't want to believe any of them. This video makes it hard not to.
Consider that a "warning" that this documentary will probably make you question the event on at least one level. I don't believe all of the claims but any of them being true means there is some complicity within the government.
this free documentary
I was not open to any of the conspiracy theories...and still don't want to believe any of them. This video makes it hard not to.
Consider that a "warning" that this documentary will probably make you question the event on at least one level. I don't believe all of the claims but any of them being true means there is some complicity within the government.
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Adam Zapple
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
spot wrote: You do know that nobody anywhere has ever made such cellphone calls on any other day from any other plane?
Source please. This is simply not true.
Source please. This is simply not true.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Adam Zapple wrote: Source please. This is simply not true.
http://physics911.net/projectachilles.htm
Or is this another of those "please prove a negative" questions? If it is, perhaps you could show support for any idea that such calls are possible? It's called "proving a positive".
Don't you think that if it were possible to make calls from 30,000 feet it would be common knowledge, people would do it (regardless of warnings not to try) and there would be at least claims somewhere to have succeeded?
http://physics911.net/projectachilles.htm
Or is this another of those "please prove a negative" questions? If it is, perhaps you could show support for any idea that such calls are possible? It's called "proving a positive".
Don't you think that if it were possible to make calls from 30,000 feet it would be common knowledge, people would do it (regardless of warnings not to try) and there would be at least claims somewhere to have succeeded?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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anastrophe
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Adam Zapple wrote: Source please. This is simply not true.
indeed. and it ignores the fact that many of the calls made on 9/11 were via airphones, which are *not* cellular technology, and which can maintain persistent connections (via uplink to satellite). it also further ignores the fact that the planes were *not* flying at cruising altitude when most of the telephone traffic was taking place - they were flying below cruising altitude, increasing the linear range of the signals. i've read various (anencephalics) suggest that it's not possible for cells to hand off from tower to tower fast enough when a jet is flying at 400+ mph. it's patent nonsense, but then, 99.9675% of this conspiracy stuff is patent nonsense. people seem to not understand the nature of 'hindsight'.
indeed. and it ignores the fact that many of the calls made on 9/11 were via airphones, which are *not* cellular technology, and which can maintain persistent connections (via uplink to satellite). it also further ignores the fact that the planes were *not* flying at cruising altitude when most of the telephone traffic was taking place - they were flying below cruising altitude, increasing the linear range of the signals. i've read various (anencephalics) suggest that it's not possible for cells to hand off from tower to tower fast enough when a jet is flying at 400+ mph. it's patent nonsense, but then, 99.9675% of this conspiracy stuff is patent nonsense. people seem to not understand the nature of 'hindsight'.
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anastrophe
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
spot apparently said:
You do know that nobody anywhere has ever made such cellphone calls on any other day from any other plane?
adam replied: Adam Zapple wrote: Source please. This is simply not true.
this is hilarious. spot's own source that he provided shows calls having been successfully made. low success rates, but still made. putting the lie, quite specifically, to his selfsame claim.
and i guess we are to presume that people on a hijacked plane are likely - after getting a failed connection - to just placcidly give up trying, because the facts suggest they can't get a call through. wishful thinking on the part of the conspiracy nutjobs. if you were on a hijacked plane, had a cellphone, and couldn't be seen, you'd be speed-dialing like mad until you got through. pure and simple.
but - well, i did run across a site that seriously proposed that the people on united 93 were actually gassed to death before the plane was ditched. the plane being flown by remote control.
so, it's pretty clear that "rational" and "conspiracy theorist" don't go together.
You do know that nobody anywhere has ever made such cellphone calls on any other day from any other plane?
adam replied: Adam Zapple wrote: Source please. This is simply not true.
this is hilarious. spot's own source that he provided shows calls having been successfully made. low success rates, but still made. putting the lie, quite specifically, to his selfsame claim.
and i guess we are to presume that people on a hijacked plane are likely - after getting a failed connection - to just placcidly give up trying, because the facts suggest they can't get a call through. wishful thinking on the part of the conspiracy nutjobs. if you were on a hijacked plane, had a cellphone, and couldn't be seen, you'd be speed-dialing like mad until you got through. pure and simple.
but - well, i did run across a site that seriously proposed that the people on united 93 were actually gassed to death before the plane was ditched. the plane being flown by remote control.
so, it's pretty clear that "rational" and "conspiracy theorist" don't go together.
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Adam Zapple
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
spot, your source is a conspiracy nut site. Consider this from Wired News:
"Investigators are considering mobile phone use as a possible cause for a plane crash and recent emergency landing in Europe.
Airlines don't permit the use of most wireless devices during flight because of concerns over interference with airplane controls from PEDs -- even though the airline industry has only come up with anecdotal evidence to support their fears. "
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,41276,00.html
How could this be if "nobody anywhere has ever made such cellphone calls on any other day from any other plane "?
"Investigators are considering mobile phone use as a possible cause for a plane crash and recent emergency landing in Europe.
Airlines don't permit the use of most wireless devices during flight because of concerns over interference with airplane controls from PEDs -- even though the airline industry has only come up with anecdotal evidence to support their fears. "
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,41276,00.html
How could this be if "nobody anywhere has ever made such cellphone calls on any other day from any other plane "?
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anastrophe
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
here's what's further baffling. if we are to allow the claim that cellphone calls are essentially impossible from aircraft higher than a few thousand feet, then riddle me this.
why would the conspirators who engineered this massive attack have gone to the trouble of creating fraudulent phone calls from cell phones that should "obviously" not have been able to make connections? what possible value would such calls have? furthermore, what then is being suggested about the people who ostensibly made these calls? all perished on flight 93. or are we to believe that these people didn't exist? or that the conspirators somehow convinced several dozen citizens to 'disappear', and for their loved ones to be left believing they had died, leaving behind wives and children? how would they have recruited such a bunch of volunteers? precious few people would be willing to do so in order to bring about the PNAC orgasm we're lead to believe took place. a family of three - mother, father, and infant daughter - died on flight 93. their parents were left behind. we're to understand that this otherwise unremarkable family chose to restart their lives with new names somewhere, in exchange for...what? a huge cash payment? well heck, lets assume they did. how would they have recruited them, without having approached people who would *decline the offer*, and who would - one would rationally think - be very likely to come forward and report such attempted recruitment after the events of 9/11? oh - of course. anyone who was approached and declined recruitment was killed. no, wait. they were told that if they ever spoke of it, people they loved would be killed. no, wait. they were given a blast from that wand that was used in _Men In Black_ to erase their memory of it. that's it! now it makes sense.
why would the conspirators who engineered this massive attack have gone to the trouble of creating fraudulent phone calls from cell phones that should "obviously" not have been able to make connections? what possible value would such calls have? furthermore, what then is being suggested about the people who ostensibly made these calls? all perished on flight 93. or are we to believe that these people didn't exist? or that the conspirators somehow convinced several dozen citizens to 'disappear', and for their loved ones to be left believing they had died, leaving behind wives and children? how would they have recruited such a bunch of volunteers? precious few people would be willing to do so in order to bring about the PNAC orgasm we're lead to believe took place. a family of three - mother, father, and infant daughter - died on flight 93. their parents were left behind. we're to understand that this otherwise unremarkable family chose to restart their lives with new names somewhere, in exchange for...what? a huge cash payment? well heck, lets assume they did. how would they have recruited them, without having approached people who would *decline the offer*, and who would - one would rationally think - be very likely to come forward and report such attempted recruitment after the events of 9/11? oh - of course. anyone who was approached and declined recruitment was killed. no, wait. they were told that if they ever spoke of it, people they loved would be killed. no, wait. they were given a blast from that wand that was used in _Men In Black_ to erase their memory of it. that's it! now it makes sense.
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
anastrophe wrote: indeed. and it ignores the fact that many of the calls made on 9/11 were via airphones, which are *not* cellular technology, and which can maintain persistent connections (via uplink to satellite). it also further ignores the fact that the planes were *not* flying at cruising altitude when most of the telephone traffic was taking place - the were flying below cruising altitude, increasing the linear range of the signals. i've read various (anencephalics) suggest that it's not possible for cells to hand off from tower to tower fast enough when a jet is flying at 400+ mph. it's patent nonsense, but then, 99.9675% of this conspiracy stuff is patent nonsense. people seem to not understand the nature of 'hindsight'.I haven't made the least reference to the airphone calls, though (in passing) I'd love to see the phone company logs that demonstrate their origin and triangulation.
I haven't made any mention at all of handing-off between cell masts either. You're raising chaff.
You're suggesting that the flights were all made at under 3000 feet from the ground - which would *still* make the calls less than likely to connect on signal strength grounds than to connect, from inside a metal airframe? Do you have any reason at all to suggest that they flew so low from the moment their transponders went off? If you have a cellphone call timed a minute after the transponder went off while showing 30,000 feet, would you think it likely that the plane had descended to 3000 feet in that minute? For the record, would you like to estimate the minimum height these planes might have travelled once their transponders were turned off, for the first half of their flights before they began descents? We could then look at Dewdney's tables and square the odds twice to reflect the absolute minimum four calls that could only have been made on cellphones, not on airphones.
I haven't made any mention at all of handing-off between cell masts either. You're raising chaff.
You're suggesting that the flights were all made at under 3000 feet from the ground - which would *still* make the calls less than likely to connect on signal strength grounds than to connect, from inside a metal airframe? Do you have any reason at all to suggest that they flew so low from the moment their transponders went off? If you have a cellphone call timed a minute after the transponder went off while showing 30,000 feet, would you think it likely that the plane had descended to 3000 feet in that minute? For the record, would you like to estimate the minimum height these planes might have travelled once their transponders were turned off, for the first half of their flights before they began descents? We could then look at Dewdney's tables and square the odds twice to reflect the absolute minimum four calls that could only have been made on cellphones, not on airphones.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Accountable
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Bryn Mawr wrote:
Nice way to rubbish inconvenient "facts" without having to disprove them?
Accountable wrote: So, do I infer correctly that you think the AlQueida attack was actually carried out by the US government?Still awaiting your answer, Bryn.
Nice way to rubbish inconvenient "facts" without having to disprove them?
Accountable wrote: So, do I infer correctly that you think the AlQueida attack was actually carried out by the US government?Still awaiting your answer, Bryn.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Accountable wrote: So, do I infer correctly that you think the AlQueida attack was actually carried out by the US government?
No, just that I think that the response could have been better thought out and answered the points raised.
No, just that I think that the response could have been better thought out and answered the points raised.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Accountable wrote:
Still awaiting your answer, Bryn.
Sorry, I've been away from my post and in dereliction of my duty.
Actually I've been home for the weekend and out of touch with my computer.
Still awaiting your answer, Bryn.
Sorry, I've been away from my post and in dereliction of my duty.
Actually I've been home for the weekend and out of touch with my computer.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Accountable wrote: That shows incredibly poor taste.
It does, however, raise a serious question behind it's (unfortunately) silly appearance.
It does, however, raise a serious question behind it's (unfortunately) silly appearance.
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Accountable
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Bryn Mawr wrote: It does, however, raise a serious question behind it's (unfortunately) silly appearance.So make it idiot-proof, because this idiot doesn't get it. Ask the question straight out.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
spot wrote: http://physics911.net/projectachilles.htm
Or is this another of those "please prove a negative" questions? If it is, perhaps you could show support for any idea that such calls are possible? It's called "proving a positive".
Don't you think that if it were possible to make calls from 30,000 feet it would be common knowledge, people would do it (regardless of warnings not to try) and there would be at least claims somewhere to have succeeded?
I believe that, within the last year or 18 months, it is now possible be routing the calls through the aircraft's main radio systems. It was certainly not possible 5 years ago when they still believed that a mobile 'phone would disrupt the aircraft's internal computer systems.
Or is this another of those "please prove a negative" questions? If it is, perhaps you could show support for any idea that such calls are possible? It's called "proving a positive".
Don't you think that if it were possible to make calls from 30,000 feet it would be common knowledge, people would do it (regardless of warnings not to try) and there would be at least claims somewhere to have succeeded?
I believe that, within the last year or 18 months, it is now possible be routing the calls through the aircraft's main radio systems. It was certainly not possible 5 years ago when they still believed that a mobile 'phone would disrupt the aircraft's internal computer systems.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Accountable wrote: So make it idiot-proof, because this idiot doesn't get it. Ask the question straight out.
How, given the level of protection afforded to the Pentagon, could a plane get into a position to attack it without being intercepted?
If the USAF itercept program is not sufficient to stop it happening to the Pentagon then what use is it?
Either or both will do as the question implied.
How, given the level of protection afforded to the Pentagon, could a plane get into a position to attack it without being intercepted?
If the USAF itercept program is not sufficient to stop it happening to the Pentagon then what use is it?
Either or both will do as the question implied.
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anastrophe
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Bryn Mawr wrote: How, given the level of protection afforded to the Pentagon, could a plane get into a position to attack it without being intercepted?
If the USAF itercept program is not sufficient to stop it happening to the Pentagon then what use is it?
Either or both will do as the question implied.
you seem to have some misperceptions of the pentagon. for one thing, it is primarily a bureacratic facility. there is little significant security besides interpersonal security, gates at entrances to parking lots, etc.. it has no weapon emplacements, just as most other buildings in washington DC do not (or at least, did not, before 9/11. the whitehouse has been a notable exception for quite some time however).
the pentagon is no more significantly protected than other bureacratic facilities in DC.
If the USAF itercept program is not sufficient to stop it happening to the Pentagon then what use is it?
Either or both will do as the question implied.
you seem to have some misperceptions of the pentagon. for one thing, it is primarily a bureacratic facility. there is little significant security besides interpersonal security, gates at entrances to parking lots, etc.. it has no weapon emplacements, just as most other buildings in washington DC do not (or at least, did not, before 9/11. the whitehouse has been a notable exception for quite some time however).
the pentagon is no more significantly protected than other bureacratic facilities in DC.
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
I never wanted to click on this thread, but I just finished watching a CD entitled Loose Change. It step by steps gives the information to support the concept that 9/11 was not planned or executed by terrorists. That planes did not take down thw world trade center, that flight 77 did not hit the pentagon and that flight 93 landed safely somewhere. The information in this documentary makes sense, is factual and is difficult to ignore.
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Accountable
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
weeder wrote: I never wanted to click on this thread, but I just finished watching a CD entitled Loose Change. It step by steps gives the information to support the concept that 9/11 was not planned or executed by terrorists. That planes did not take down thw world trade center, that flight 77 did not hit the pentagon and that flight 93 landed safely somewhere. The information in this documentary makes sense, is factual and is difficult to ignore.Did it say where all the people who didn't die were?
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anastrophe
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
weeder wrote: I never wanted to click on this thread, but I just finished watching a CD entitled Loose Change. It step by steps gives the information to support the concept that 9/11 was not planned or executed by terrorists. That planes did not take down thw world trade center, that flight 77 did not hit the pentagon and that flight 93 landed safely somewhere. The information in this documentary makes sense, is factual and is difficult to ignore.
factual? no. provocatively presented speculation and conjecture, yes.
if you pay close attention, you'll find that most of the 'conclusions' stated in the narration in the Loose Change 'documentaries' is presented in the form of questions, not statements. by presenting speculation and questions emphatically, it makes it seem like they're presented facts and assertions. they're not. they also repeatedly and relentlessly cite circumstantial information, that - when presented in the right order, and *excluding* other information - makes it seem like one thing follows from another (the classic 'wisdom' of hindsight).
the loose change videos can be viewed free on google videos ( http://video.google.com ).
factual? no. provocatively presented speculation and conjecture, yes.
if you pay close attention, you'll find that most of the 'conclusions' stated in the narration in the Loose Change 'documentaries' is presented in the form of questions, not statements. by presenting speculation and questions emphatically, it makes it seem like they're presented facts and assertions. they're not. they also repeatedly and relentlessly cite circumstantial information, that - when presented in the right order, and *excluding* other information - makes it seem like one thing follows from another (the classic 'wisdom' of hindsight).
the loose change videos can be viewed free on google videos ( http://video.google.com ).
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anastrophe
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
the production values of the loose change videos are very high, too. that alone doesn't negate what's said - but slick production values can be used to manipulate the viewer, and they do so effectively.
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ComfortablyNumb
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One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Old Chinese Proverb -
Those who live with their heads in the sand get their arses blown off!
Those who live with their heads in the sand get their arses blown off!
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
From Phineas T. Barnum....
There's a sucker born every minute.
There's a sucker born every minute.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Galbally;389638 wrote: I find real mysteries interesting, and of course everyone has a pet ghost story, or maybe even a UFO one, and we all enjoy such ideas as they appeal to us. But I don't really take such things very seriously, not like say, gravity, or the cost of living. There certainly are strange events and occurences and some genuinely bafflinling things in the world, but its been my experience in life that although the world is complex and a little weird on occasion, it runs on predictable laws and that things that seem either impossible, too good to be true, or too strange to be believed usually are percieved like that for a good reason.
In terms of the WTC towers, I have no doubt that the impact of the passanger jets and the resultsing fuel-fires were the cause of the catastrophic failure of both buildings, and that the U.S. government for all its faults is not actively engaged in trying to cause mass destruction in its own urban centers for some vague political objective, no government has ever been so crazy, not even the ones run by crazy people. Think about it, its nuts, it really has to be the most absurd conspiracy theory I've ever heard, and the logic of conspiracy theory is of course that being so absurd then it must be true, but that is of course tautology, which is what conspiracy theories such as this particlular one thrive on. I never said that there were no conspiracies, of course there are, but they are generally pretty prosaic and people aren't interested in them because they are boring and don't fire some people's imagination in the same way that the kind of semi-gothic X-Files type world seems to enchant some people.
Wake up Mr Galbally.. ! When you see hard irrefutable evidence you still believe in the 'easy' story from Bush & Co. ? I suppose the actual knowledge that a President and his cohorts could manage such an incredible thing is too fearful to accept. ? The implications are quite fearful aren't they. ! When America needs a boost to its economy, or when it needs a motive for doing something around the world to preserve its 'superiority' then it will stop at nothing. ! Big business is so powerful that it has the President in its grip, and most of the world economy under its control too, so when it feels undermined it will do things beyond the comprehension of most average citizens. ! Look at Pearl Harbour. ! Big business and the Munitions industry needed something to get it back on track after the years of depression, so Pearl Harbour was the perfect set up. ! Do you really believe the Americans with all their sophisticated equipment and radar would actually allow themselves to be attackewd in such a way if they didnt want it ??
:wah: JFK was another conspiracy, just as 9/11 was. The hard evidence, and its not conjecture or 'possibilities' but hard evidence tells us the truth, but we do not want to accept it because our minds boggle at such terrible thoughts, but thats what Bush & Co rely on. ! Its all phsychology. !
In terms of the WTC towers, I have no doubt that the impact of the passanger jets and the resultsing fuel-fires were the cause of the catastrophic failure of both buildings, and that the U.S. government for all its faults is not actively engaged in trying to cause mass destruction in its own urban centers for some vague political objective, no government has ever been so crazy, not even the ones run by crazy people. Think about it, its nuts, it really has to be the most absurd conspiracy theory I've ever heard, and the logic of conspiracy theory is of course that being so absurd then it must be true, but that is of course tautology, which is what conspiracy theories such as this particlular one thrive on. I never said that there were no conspiracies, of course there are, but they are generally pretty prosaic and people aren't interested in them because they are boring and don't fire some people's imagination in the same way that the kind of semi-gothic X-Files type world seems to enchant some people.
Wake up Mr Galbally.. ! When you see hard irrefutable evidence you still believe in the 'easy' story from Bush & Co. ? I suppose the actual knowledge that a President and his cohorts could manage such an incredible thing is too fearful to accept. ? The implications are quite fearful aren't they. ! When America needs a boost to its economy, or when it needs a motive for doing something around the world to preserve its 'superiority' then it will stop at nothing. ! Big business is so powerful that it has the President in its grip, and most of the world economy under its control too, so when it feels undermined it will do things beyond the comprehension of most average citizens. ! Look at Pearl Harbour. ! Big business and the Munitions industry needed something to get it back on track after the years of depression, so Pearl Harbour was the perfect set up. ! Do you really believe the Americans with all their sophisticated equipment and radar would actually allow themselves to be attackewd in such a way if they didnt want it ??
:wah: JFK was another conspiracy, just as 9/11 was. The hard evidence, and its not conjecture or 'possibilities' but hard evidence tells us the truth, but we do not want to accept it because our minds boggle at such terrible thoughts, but thats what Bush & Co rely on. ! Its all phsychology. !
"Power to the People".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
ComfortablyNumb;498721 wrote: Old Chinese Proverb -
Those who live with their heads in the sand get their arses blown off!
:wah: Brilliant. !
Those who live with their heads in the sand get their arses blown off!
:wah: Brilliant. !
"Power to the People".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
scaminfo;522826 wrote: Wake up Mr Galbally.. ! When you see hard irrefutable evidence you still believe in the 'easy' story from Bush & Co. ? I suppose the actual knowledge that a President and his cohorts could manage such an incredible thing is too fearful to accept. ? The implications are quite fearful aren't they. ! When America needs a boost to its economy, or when it needs a motive for doing something around the world to preserve its 'superiority' then it will stop at nothing. ! Big business is so powerful that it has the President in its grip, and most of the world economy under its control too, so when it feels undermined it will do things beyond the comprehension of most average citizens. ! Look at Pearl Harbour. ! Big business and the Munitions industry needed something to get it back on track after the years of depression, so Pearl Harbour was the perfect set up. ! Do you really believe the Americans with all their sophisticated equipment and radar would actually allow themselves to be attackewd in such a way if they didnt want it ??:wah: JFK was another conspiracy, just as 9/11 was. The hard evidence, and its not conjecture or 'possibilities' but hard evidence tells us the truth, but we do not want to accept it because our minds boggle at such terrible thoughts, but thats what Bush & Co rely on. ! Its all phsychology. !
Yes it is all psychology, all right, but now how you describe it. This instinctive need that people have to see conspiracies behind everything is nothing new, its as old as history. And also, there are many real conspiracies out there obviously, as people and governments do plot and do nefarious things all the time of course there are, and with something like the assassination of JFK, yes obviously something went on there because it was not one man in a bookstore and too many people had something to gain. But hey, there are lots of assassinations in the world, all the time, and thats just another one, it just gets talked about a lot because he was the U.S. President and he was in America, and it all happened on TV at the time, so your government is just as cynical and nasty as everyone else's, really? Wow, what a surprise!. Go and have a cry about it and then get over it. :wah:
Some very foolish American's think that their country is the only country in which any of this goes on, it isn't, America is just another country, it just happens to be the most powerful one in the world (at the moment, but watch this space closely and learn some mandarin). For example in my country in 1974, 3 car bombs went off in Dublin that killed 34 people, the government of the time did a whitewash of the investigation because they knew who were involved, (i.e. British military intelligence), and for it to have come out would have been too dangerous and might have cased civil unrest, so there is a conspiracy that "George Bush" aka "the mastermind" (please) wasn't involved in at all, or maybe he was, and maybe these things are all linked in some ridiculous paranoid way. There are examples of this everywhere, the Russians, the French, the Israeli's, the Syrians, bloody everyone really, except maybe the Swiss, they keep quiet for some reason, perhaps "too quiet", and the Canadians as well, they don't say much do they? And as for us the Irish, oh we have been plotting our takeover for a long time, we have populated large parts of North America, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, we have set up Irish bars everywhere (command and control centres), and we have convinced everyone that we are Guinness drinking peace-niks who are just into making it rich and having a party, you suckers, HA! you'll all get yours.
There are lots of examples of conspiracies, some real, some a load of toss, the "holy blood, holy grail" one is a good example of how thick people are, and how easy it is to fool them with a bit of Latin and some mumbo-jumbo + a good yarn. This September 11th one though, it really makes me laugh, I just think its based on people's need to think that the US government is all powerful, omnipotent, many tentacled, utterly evil, and preparing to take over the world, I'm sorry, but thats just nonsense based on reading too many sub-X-files sci fi and conspiracy comics, and allowing yourself to be caught up in that paranoid adolescent fantasy world. Its either that, or these people who are into the new world order, the rapture, the all that sinister crap, they are the modern version of the people 100 years ago who believed that the Jews were running the world to some nefarious end, and of course an Austrian corporal tool them at their word and then killed 6 million hapless Jews from across Europe who as far as I am aware, were not actually trying to take over the world at all. All this Sept 11th fantasy, is also buying into the hallucinogenic propaganda of anti-American groups in the world, who would seek to kill American citizens while also blaming them and their governments for their own murders, its an old trick, and a good one, and it still suckers a lot of people.
The truth is out there alright, but far its far more boring that the one you are so convinced off, the American government is a powerful organization, and it certainly has its darker side (like all governments), but it is not "all powerful", its essentially like a post office, only bigger and with more things to do, like get into stupid wars, and ruin the economy, and Mr Bush is like the head post man, (but they will be taking his post badge off him soon), and its not in league with Aliens or Jesus, or whoever, and no on is clever or powerful enough to organize the world as they see fit, they just muddle through, doing whatever they can to further their own interests, sometimes nicely, sometimes, not so nicely. You just want the story to be true because you like stories I think, so I advise you to wake up, grow up, and read some adult books for a change, thank you, good day.
Like PT Barnum said, there is one born every minute, how wise that man was.
Yes it is all psychology, all right, but now how you describe it. This instinctive need that people have to see conspiracies behind everything is nothing new, its as old as history. And also, there are many real conspiracies out there obviously, as people and governments do plot and do nefarious things all the time of course there are, and with something like the assassination of JFK, yes obviously something went on there because it was not one man in a bookstore and too many people had something to gain. But hey, there are lots of assassinations in the world, all the time, and thats just another one, it just gets talked about a lot because he was the U.S. President and he was in America, and it all happened on TV at the time, so your government is just as cynical and nasty as everyone else's, really? Wow, what a surprise!. Go and have a cry about it and then get over it. :wah:
Some very foolish American's think that their country is the only country in which any of this goes on, it isn't, America is just another country, it just happens to be the most powerful one in the world (at the moment, but watch this space closely and learn some mandarin). For example in my country in 1974, 3 car bombs went off in Dublin that killed 34 people, the government of the time did a whitewash of the investigation because they knew who were involved, (i.e. British military intelligence), and for it to have come out would have been too dangerous and might have cased civil unrest, so there is a conspiracy that "George Bush" aka "the mastermind" (please) wasn't involved in at all, or maybe he was, and maybe these things are all linked in some ridiculous paranoid way. There are examples of this everywhere, the Russians, the French, the Israeli's, the Syrians, bloody everyone really, except maybe the Swiss, they keep quiet for some reason, perhaps "too quiet", and the Canadians as well, they don't say much do they? And as for us the Irish, oh we have been plotting our takeover for a long time, we have populated large parts of North America, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, we have set up Irish bars everywhere (command and control centres), and we have convinced everyone that we are Guinness drinking peace-niks who are just into making it rich and having a party, you suckers, HA! you'll all get yours.
There are lots of examples of conspiracies, some real, some a load of toss, the "holy blood, holy grail" one is a good example of how thick people are, and how easy it is to fool them with a bit of Latin and some mumbo-jumbo + a good yarn. This September 11th one though, it really makes me laugh, I just think its based on people's need to think that the US government is all powerful, omnipotent, many tentacled, utterly evil, and preparing to take over the world, I'm sorry, but thats just nonsense based on reading too many sub-X-files sci fi and conspiracy comics, and allowing yourself to be caught up in that paranoid adolescent fantasy world. Its either that, or these people who are into the new world order, the rapture, the all that sinister crap, they are the modern version of the people 100 years ago who believed that the Jews were running the world to some nefarious end, and of course an Austrian corporal tool them at their word and then killed 6 million hapless Jews from across Europe who as far as I am aware, were not actually trying to take over the world at all. All this Sept 11th fantasy, is also buying into the hallucinogenic propaganda of anti-American groups in the world, who would seek to kill American citizens while also blaming them and their governments for their own murders, its an old trick, and a good one, and it still suckers a lot of people.
The truth is out there alright, but far its far more boring that the one you are so convinced off, the American government is a powerful organization, and it certainly has its darker side (like all governments), but it is not "all powerful", its essentially like a post office, only bigger and with more things to do, like get into stupid wars, and ruin the economy, and Mr Bush is like the head post man, (but they will be taking his post badge off him soon), and its not in league with Aliens or Jesus, or whoever, and no on is clever or powerful enough to organize the world as they see fit, they just muddle through, doing whatever they can to further their own interests, sometimes nicely, sometimes, not so nicely. You just want the story to be true because you like stories I think, so I advise you to wake up, grow up, and read some adult books for a change, thank you, good day.
Like PT Barnum said, there is one born every minute, how wise that man was.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Galbally;522940 wrote: Yes it is all psychology, all right, but now how you describe it. This instinctive need that people have to see conspiracies behind everything is nothing new, its as old as history. And also, there are many real conspiracies out there obviously, as people and governments do plot and do nefarious things all the time of course there are, and with something like the assassination of JFK, yes obviously something went on there because it was not one man in a bookstore and too many people had something to gain. But hey, there are lots of assassinations in the world, all the time, and thats just another one, it just gets talked about a lot because he was the U.S. President and he was in America, and it all happened on TV at the time, so your government is just as cynical and nasty as everyone else's, really? Wow, what a surprise!. Go and have a cry about it and then get over it. :wah:
Some very foolish American's think that their country is the only country in which any of this goes on, it isn't, America is just another country, it just happens to be the most powerful one in the world (at the moment, but watch this space closely and learn some mandarin). For example in my country in 1974, 3 car bombs went off in Dublin that killed 34 people, the government of the time did a whitewash of the investigation because they knew who were involved, (i.e. British military intelligence), and for it to have come out would have been too dangerous and might have cased civil unrest, so there is a conspiracy that "George Bush" aka "the mastermind" (please) wasn't involved in at all, or maybe he was, and maybe these things are all linked in some ridiculous paranoid way. There are examples of this everywhere, the Russians, the French, the Israeli's, the Syrians, bloody everyone really, except maybe the Swiss, they keep quiet for some reason, perhaps "too quiet", and the Canadians as well, they don't say much do they? And as for us the Irish, oh we have been plotting our takeover for a long time, we have populated large parts of North America, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, we have set up Irish bars everywhere (command and control centres), and we have convinced everyone that we are Guinness drinking peace-niks who are just into making it rich and having a party, you suckers, HA! you'll all get yours.
There are lots of examples of conspiracies, some real, some a load of toss, the "holy blood, holy grail" one is a good example of how thick people are, and how easy it is to fool them with a bit of Latin and some mumbo-jumbo + a good yarn. This September 11th one though, it really makes me laugh, I just think its based on people's need to think that the US government is all powerful, omnipotent, many tentacled, utterly evil, and preparing to take over the world, I'm sorry, but thats just nonsense based on reading too many sub-X-files sci fi and conspiracy comics, and allowing yourself to be caught up in that paranoid adolescent fantasy world. Its either that, or these people who are into the new world order, the rapture, the all that sinister crap, they are the modern version of the people 100 years ago who believed that the Jews were running the world to some nefarious end, and of course an Austrian corporal tool them at their word and then killed 6 million hapless Jews from across Europe who as far as I am aware, were not actually trying to take over the world at all. All this Sept 11th fantasy, is also buying into the hallucinogenic propaganda of anti-American groups in the world, who would seek to kill American citizens while also blaming them and their governments for their own murders, its an old trick, and a good one, and it still suckers a lot of people.
The truth is out there alright, but far its far more boring that the one you are so convinced off, the American government is a powerful organization, and it certainly has its darker side (like all governments), but it is not "all powerful", its essentially like a post office, only bigger and with more things to do, like get into stupid wars, and ruin the economy, and Mr Bush is like the head post man, (but they will be taking his post badge off him soon), and its not in league with Aliens or Jesus, or whoever, and no on is clever or powerful enough to organize the world as they see fit, they just muddle through, doing whatever they can to further their own interests, sometimes nicely, sometimes, not so nicely. You just want the story to be true because you like stories I think, so I advise you to wake up, grow up, and read some adult books for a change, thank you, good day.
Like PT Barnum said, there is one born every minute, how wise that man was.
1974. ? Are you sure you got that right ? As I live only a few miles up the road, and 5klm from the border we were also subject to the terror bombings, but I think you have got your years wrong. ?
More about the 9/11 conspiracy later. !
Some very foolish American's think that their country is the only country in which any of this goes on, it isn't, America is just another country, it just happens to be the most powerful one in the world (at the moment, but watch this space closely and learn some mandarin). For example in my country in 1974, 3 car bombs went off in Dublin that killed 34 people, the government of the time did a whitewash of the investigation because they knew who were involved, (i.e. British military intelligence), and for it to have come out would have been too dangerous and might have cased civil unrest, so there is a conspiracy that "George Bush" aka "the mastermind" (please) wasn't involved in at all, or maybe he was, and maybe these things are all linked in some ridiculous paranoid way. There are examples of this everywhere, the Russians, the French, the Israeli's, the Syrians, bloody everyone really, except maybe the Swiss, they keep quiet for some reason, perhaps "too quiet", and the Canadians as well, they don't say much do they? And as for us the Irish, oh we have been plotting our takeover for a long time, we have populated large parts of North America, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, we have set up Irish bars everywhere (command and control centres), and we have convinced everyone that we are Guinness drinking peace-niks who are just into making it rich and having a party, you suckers, HA! you'll all get yours.
There are lots of examples of conspiracies, some real, some a load of toss, the "holy blood, holy grail" one is a good example of how thick people are, and how easy it is to fool them with a bit of Latin and some mumbo-jumbo + a good yarn. This September 11th one though, it really makes me laugh, I just think its based on people's need to think that the US government is all powerful, omnipotent, many tentacled, utterly evil, and preparing to take over the world, I'm sorry, but thats just nonsense based on reading too many sub-X-files sci fi and conspiracy comics, and allowing yourself to be caught up in that paranoid adolescent fantasy world. Its either that, or these people who are into the new world order, the rapture, the all that sinister crap, they are the modern version of the people 100 years ago who believed that the Jews were running the world to some nefarious end, and of course an Austrian corporal tool them at their word and then killed 6 million hapless Jews from across Europe who as far as I am aware, were not actually trying to take over the world at all. All this Sept 11th fantasy, is also buying into the hallucinogenic propaganda of anti-American groups in the world, who would seek to kill American citizens while also blaming them and their governments for their own murders, its an old trick, and a good one, and it still suckers a lot of people.
The truth is out there alright, but far its far more boring that the one you are so convinced off, the American government is a powerful organization, and it certainly has its darker side (like all governments), but it is not "all powerful", its essentially like a post office, only bigger and with more things to do, like get into stupid wars, and ruin the economy, and Mr Bush is like the head post man, (but they will be taking his post badge off him soon), and its not in league with Aliens or Jesus, or whoever, and no on is clever or powerful enough to organize the world as they see fit, they just muddle through, doing whatever they can to further their own interests, sometimes nicely, sometimes, not so nicely. You just want the story to be true because you like stories I think, so I advise you to wake up, grow up, and read some adult books for a change, thank you, good day.
Like PT Barnum said, there is one born every minute, how wise that man was.
1974. ? Are you sure you got that right ? As I live only a few miles up the road, and 5klm from the border we were also subject to the terror bombings, but I think you have got your years wrong. ?
More about the 9/11 conspiracy later. !
"Power to the People".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
scaminfo;523024 wrote: 1974. ? Are you sure you got that right ? As I live only a few miles up the road, and 5klm from the border we were also subject to the terror bombings, but I think you have got your years wrong. ?
More about the 9/11 conspiracy later. !
No, the Dublin/Monaghan bombings of May 1974, I don't think thats wrong, Talbot Street, South Leinster Street, Parnell St, and Monaghan town, 33 people blown to bits, correct me if I am wrong. And I never said they were the only bombings, or the only dirty little conspiracies, just a good example of one cover up by my own government (as well as others). If you live on the border then you know all about it, so I shouldn't have to explain anything to you. I await your 9/11 paranoia with great enthusiasm, no really I do. Carry on. :-6
More about the 9/11 conspiracy later. !
No, the Dublin/Monaghan bombings of May 1974, I don't think thats wrong, Talbot Street, South Leinster Street, Parnell St, and Monaghan town, 33 people blown to bits, correct me if I am wrong. And I never said they were the only bombings, or the only dirty little conspiracies, just a good example of one cover up by my own government (as well as others). If you live on the border then you know all about it, so I shouldn't have to explain anything to you. I await your 9/11 paranoia with great enthusiasm, no really I do. Carry on. :-6
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Galbally;523064 wrote: No, the Dublin/Monaghan bombings of May 1974, I don't think thats wrong, Talbot Street, South Leinster Street, Parnell St, and Monaghan town, 33 people blown to bits, correct me if I am wrong. And I never said they were the only bombings, or the only dirty little conspiracies, just a good example of one cover up by my own government (as well as others). If you live on the border then you know all about it, so I shouldn't have to explain anything to you. I await your 9/11 paranoia with great enthusiasm, no really I do. Carry on. :-6
Ok. Agreed. 1974. ! When you said 'Dublin bombings' I thought you were referring to 72. ! The 74 bombings were actually called the 'Dublin & Monaghan' bombings.
Anyway, about 9/11. Did you check on Google. ? If not please do so, as I would like you to be well informed on all the latest evidence before we 'lock horns'. !
Ok. Agreed. 1974. ! When you said 'Dublin bombings' I thought you were referring to 72. ! The 74 bombings were actually called the 'Dublin & Monaghan' bombings.
Anyway, about 9/11. Did you check on Google. ? If not please do so, as I would like you to be well informed on all the latest evidence before we 'lock horns'. !
"Power to the People".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
scaminfo;523198 wrote: Ok. Agreed. 1974. ! When you said 'Dublin bombings' I thought you were referring to 72. ! The 74 bombings were actually called the 'Dublin & Monaghan' bombings.
Anyway, about 9/11. Did you check on Google. ? If not please do so, as I would like you to be well informed on all the latest evidence before we 'lock horns'. !
Fair enough I should have used the full name for those events I didn't realize you were living here as you don't say where you are from so I didn't think it was important. As for September 11th No I didn't check Google, I read the September 11th Commission Report, all 600 odd pages of it. Its an interesting report, and a damning indictment of the U.S. governments ability to grasp the threat at that time, and also its unpreparedness on the day for its territory to be attacked, (for a country with thousands of Nuclear warheads at its disposal, its sobering to realize how easily the chain of command broke down). I also like everyone else on planet earth watched it happening live on TV, and read and watched a lot of books, documentaries, and witness accounts of what happened. Certainly those events were unprecedented in modern times.
But do I honestly think that the U.S. government was capable of blowing up the financial heart of its most economically important city live on TV in front of 8 million new yorkers, and fly a cruise missile into its own military headquarters with the defense secretary inside, and to pull it off so perfectly that no one realized (or noticed within the US itself either within its civilian population or its military), or the other people in power who were not involved in this "plot" didn't smell a rat? Give me a break would ya? Do I really believe that people in the U.S. government would even dream of such lunacy, no I do not, its a fantasy, born of a type of intellectual laziness and a love of mystery for mystery's sake. I also think its extremely insulting to Americans, as its another way of trying to obscure the issue and who was actually responsible for what happened. Do I think that the US government reacted badly after the event, ignored the Saudi connection (publicly at least), and invaded Iraq on an entirely different agenda, yes I do and these are the real issues.
I also do not believe that the UN is a proto "World Government", that the Freemasons or the Jews run the world, that Al Queda is some all powerful terrorist threat that is controlling all of that extremism, that the British Monarchy want to disarm US citizens so that they can take over their country again, that all Muslims are involved in trying to being the west down, that aliens crashed at Roswell and are running everything, or that Mossad is some all powerful force in the world dictating events as they unfold. I am a rationalist, and I understand that people place far too much belief in the ability of governments or organizations to much of anything except waste peoples tax money. Are their conspiracies and plots all over the world, yes, is everything that happens always because of some conspiracy, no. So now you know my position.
Anyway, about 9/11. Did you check on Google. ? If not please do so, as I would like you to be well informed on all the latest evidence before we 'lock horns'. !
Fair enough I should have used the full name for those events I didn't realize you were living here as you don't say where you are from so I didn't think it was important. As for September 11th No I didn't check Google, I read the September 11th Commission Report, all 600 odd pages of it. Its an interesting report, and a damning indictment of the U.S. governments ability to grasp the threat at that time, and also its unpreparedness on the day for its territory to be attacked, (for a country with thousands of Nuclear warheads at its disposal, its sobering to realize how easily the chain of command broke down). I also like everyone else on planet earth watched it happening live on TV, and read and watched a lot of books, documentaries, and witness accounts of what happened. Certainly those events were unprecedented in modern times.
But do I honestly think that the U.S. government was capable of blowing up the financial heart of its most economically important city live on TV in front of 8 million new yorkers, and fly a cruise missile into its own military headquarters with the defense secretary inside, and to pull it off so perfectly that no one realized (or noticed within the US itself either within its civilian population or its military), or the other people in power who were not involved in this "plot" didn't smell a rat? Give me a break would ya? Do I really believe that people in the U.S. government would even dream of such lunacy, no I do not, its a fantasy, born of a type of intellectual laziness and a love of mystery for mystery's sake. I also think its extremely insulting to Americans, as its another way of trying to obscure the issue and who was actually responsible for what happened. Do I think that the US government reacted badly after the event, ignored the Saudi connection (publicly at least), and invaded Iraq on an entirely different agenda, yes I do and these are the real issues.
I also do not believe that the UN is a proto "World Government", that the Freemasons or the Jews run the world, that Al Queda is some all powerful terrorist threat that is controlling all of that extremism, that the British Monarchy want to disarm US citizens so that they can take over their country again, that all Muslims are involved in trying to being the west down, that aliens crashed at Roswell and are running everything, or that Mossad is some all powerful force in the world dictating events as they unfold. I am a rationalist, and I understand that people place far too much belief in the ability of governments or organizations to much of anything except waste peoples tax money. Are their conspiracies and plots all over the world, yes, is everything that happens always because of some conspiracy, no. So now you know my position.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
"But do I honestly think that the U.S. government was capable of blowing up the financial heart of its most economically important city live on TV in front of 8 million new yorkers, and fly a cruise missile into its own military headquarters with the defense secretary inside, and to pull it off so perfectly that no one realized or noticed within the US itself either within its civilian population or its military, or the other people in power who were not involved in this "plot"? Or that people in the U.S. government would even dream of such lunacy, no I do not, its a fantasy, born of a type of intellectual laziness and a love of mystery for mystery's sake. I also think its extremely insulting to Americans, as its another way of trying to obscure the issue and who was actually responsible for what happened. Do I think that the US government reacted badly after the event, ignored the Saudi connection (publicly at least), and invaded Iraq on an entirely different agenda, yes I do and these are the real issues."
++++++++++ YUP!
++++++++++ YUP!
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
Galbally;523334 wrote: Fair enough I should have used the full name for those events I didn't realize you were living here as you don't say where you are from so I didn't think it was important. As for September 11th No I didn't check Google, I read the September 11th Commission Report, all 600 odd pages of it. Its an interesting report, and a damning indictment of the U.S. governments ability to grasp the threat at that time, and also its unpreparedness on the day for its territory to be attacked, (for a country with thousands of Nuclear warheads at its disposal, its sobering to realize how easily the chain of command broke down). I also like everyone else on planet earth watched it happening live on TV, and read and watched a lot of books, documentaries, and witness accounts of what happened. Certainly those events were unprecedented in modern times.
But do I honestly think that the U.S. government was capable of blowing up the financial heart of its most economically important city live on TV in front of 8 million new yorkers, and fly a cruise missile into its own military headquarters with the defense secretary inside, and to pull it off so perfectly that no one realized (or noticed within the US itself either within its civilian population or its military), or the other people in power who were not involved in this "plot" didn't smell a rat? Give me a break would ya? Do I really believe that people in the U.S. government would even dream of such lunacy, no I do not, its a fantasy, born of a type of intellectual laziness and a love of mystery for mystery's sake. I also think its extremely insulting to Americans, as its another way of trying to obscure the issue and who was actually responsible for what happened. Do I think that the US government reacted badly after the event, ignored the Saudi connection (publicly at least), and invaded Iraq on an entirely different agenda, yes I do and these are the real issues.
I also do not believe that the UN is a proto "World Government", that the Freemasons or the Jews run the world, that Al Queda is some all powerful terrorist threat that is controlling all of that extremism, that the British Monarchy want to disarm US citizens so that they can take over their country again, that all Muslims are involved in trying to being the west down, that aliens crashed at Roswell and are running everything, or that Mossad is some all powerful force in the world dictating events as they unfold. I am a rationalist, and I understand that people place far too much belief in the ability of governments or organizations to much of anything except waste peoples tax money. Are their conspiracies and plots all over the world, yes, is everything that happens always because of some conspiracy, no. So now you know my position.
The 'Warren' Report. ! Hmmm. Your not very clued up then, unfortunately. You have only read one side of the argument. If we are going to put our points of view on here I really do think you should see the evidence from both sides first. ?
Why do you not want to see all that Google has to offer. ? Are you afraid that it might be so compelling that your opinion might change dramatically. ?
The Warren report was fixed and was one of America's biggest cover ups of all time. ! Important witnesses, eye witnesses, technical and experienced witnesses, Twin Towers construction experts, Airline experts, crucual video evidence and CCTV evidence, and masses more was either excluded, ignored, or just completely banned. ! Warren himself was appointed because he is one of the most respected and 'straight' judges in America, and therefore his verdict would be respected, but before he undertook his duties he went through a long meeting with 'Cheeney' and his gang and was obviously persuaded that in the interests of 'National Security' he should find Osama and his 'recruits' guilty. That any verdict other than this would be a National tragedy as well as undermining America wordwide on an unprecedented scale, and have such far reaching consequences as to be catastropic. ! Please have a look at all the evidence and I would be glad to discuss it all further. ? It would take pages and pages of postings here to show you all the evidence. Much better that you look at it all yourself, in the comfort of your 'armchair' and then having been pursuaded, which, as an intelligent and truth seeking person will definitely happen, I would be more than happy to share a discussion. Fair enough. ??
Regarding 1972/4, I thought my 'location' was in my profile but I see that its not. I went to try and change it, so as to give members a little more info but I could not see how to do it. The misunderstanding over the year was an easy mistake to make, so we were actually both right.
au revoir.
But do I honestly think that the U.S. government was capable of blowing up the financial heart of its most economically important city live on TV in front of 8 million new yorkers, and fly a cruise missile into its own military headquarters with the defense secretary inside, and to pull it off so perfectly that no one realized (or noticed within the US itself either within its civilian population or its military), or the other people in power who were not involved in this "plot" didn't smell a rat? Give me a break would ya? Do I really believe that people in the U.S. government would even dream of such lunacy, no I do not, its a fantasy, born of a type of intellectual laziness and a love of mystery for mystery's sake. I also think its extremely insulting to Americans, as its another way of trying to obscure the issue and who was actually responsible for what happened. Do I think that the US government reacted badly after the event, ignored the Saudi connection (publicly at least), and invaded Iraq on an entirely different agenda, yes I do and these are the real issues.
I also do not believe that the UN is a proto "World Government", that the Freemasons or the Jews run the world, that Al Queda is some all powerful terrorist threat that is controlling all of that extremism, that the British Monarchy want to disarm US citizens so that they can take over their country again, that all Muslims are involved in trying to being the west down, that aliens crashed at Roswell and are running everything, or that Mossad is some all powerful force in the world dictating events as they unfold. I am a rationalist, and I understand that people place far too much belief in the ability of governments or organizations to much of anything except waste peoples tax money. Are their conspiracies and plots all over the world, yes, is everything that happens always because of some conspiracy, no. So now you know my position.
The 'Warren' Report. ! Hmmm. Your not very clued up then, unfortunately. You have only read one side of the argument. If we are going to put our points of view on here I really do think you should see the evidence from both sides first. ?
Why do you not want to see all that Google has to offer. ? Are you afraid that it might be so compelling that your opinion might change dramatically. ?
The Warren report was fixed and was one of America's biggest cover ups of all time. ! Important witnesses, eye witnesses, technical and experienced witnesses, Twin Towers construction experts, Airline experts, crucual video evidence and CCTV evidence, and masses more was either excluded, ignored, or just completely banned. ! Warren himself was appointed because he is one of the most respected and 'straight' judges in America, and therefore his verdict would be respected, but before he undertook his duties he went through a long meeting with 'Cheeney' and his gang and was obviously persuaded that in the interests of 'National Security' he should find Osama and his 'recruits' guilty. That any verdict other than this would be a National tragedy as well as undermining America wordwide on an unprecedented scale, and have such far reaching consequences as to be catastropic. ! Please have a look at all the evidence and I would be glad to discuss it all further. ? It would take pages and pages of postings here to show you all the evidence. Much better that you look at it all yourself, in the comfort of your 'armchair'
and then having been pursuaded, which, as an intelligent and truth seeking person will definitely happen, I would be more than happy to share a discussion. Fair enough. ?? Regarding 1972/4, I thought my 'location' was in my profile but I see that its not. I went to try and change it, so as to give members a little more info but I could not see how to do it. The misunderstanding over the year was an easy mistake to make, so we were actually both right.
au revoir.
"Power to the People".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
"Lies are expensive, the Truth is Cheap".
One in three American's Say U.S. Aided in 9/11
The Warren Commission report was the report conducted in 1964 to investigate the Assassination of U.S. President John F Kennedy, and is generally regarded as a whitewash by everyone who has studied that issue in a transparent coherent way. The 911 Commission Final report is a different document, dealing with the 2001 September 11th attacks, 35 years later and the commission was chaired by Thomas H. Kean, it is not considered a whitewash, though it avoids dealing with some of the deeper issues related to Saudi Arabia, US foreign policy, and the aftermath of September 11th, it is available on the internet for free, so you are getting your reports and conspiracy's mixed up, which is OK, because of course these things are all linked aren't they?
Have you read this report? Are you interested in reading it? I doubt it sincerely. I have read and watched books and documentaries that deal with the issues you have raised, particularly that recent one, which was screened on RTE, which seems compelling, except it isn't, its just a mishmash of inferences, and supposed "eyewitness" testimony, that is presented in a interesting way, but when you look into the arguments they all fall apart. As for Google, yes there are lots of things on the "internet", but you should know that a lot of what passes for "information" on the internet is nothing of the sort, news organizations and real journalists have to document and justify the information that they present as fact, people on the internet or in conspiracy theory clubs don't, thats the difference, and also why you should look at these things a little more open-mindedly, (and not come to a conclusion based on other people's pet theories about right-wing US politicians whom they don't like).
As for sitting in my armchair, well yes, I wasn't flying the planes, I wasn't in the Twin Towers, I am not a member of Al Queda, or a member of the Bush Administration and neither are (or were) you, so I am not sure how that give you a superior vantage point upon which to look at all this, you probably think that everyone who doesn't agree with your analysis is either a neo-con American Republican or a brainwashed sheep, I assure you thats not the case.
Have you read this report? Are you interested in reading it? I doubt it sincerely. I have read and watched books and documentaries that deal with the issues you have raised, particularly that recent one, which was screened on RTE, which seems compelling, except it isn't, its just a mishmash of inferences, and supposed "eyewitness" testimony, that is presented in a interesting way, but when you look into the arguments they all fall apart. As for Google, yes there are lots of things on the "internet", but you should know that a lot of what passes for "information" on the internet is nothing of the sort, news organizations and real journalists have to document and justify the information that they present as fact, people on the internet or in conspiracy theory clubs don't, thats the difference, and also why you should look at these things a little more open-mindedly, (and not come to a conclusion based on other people's pet theories about right-wing US politicians whom they don't like).
As for sitting in my armchair, well yes, I wasn't flying the planes, I wasn't in the Twin Towers, I am not a member of Al Queda, or a member of the Bush Administration and neither are (or were) you, so I am not sure how that give you a superior vantage point upon which to look at all this, you probably think that everyone who doesn't agree with your analysis is either a neo-con American Republican or a brainwashed sheep, I assure you thats not the case.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.