Who Really Died In That Shootout in the Katrina New Orleans

[CVX]

Were US Government Levee Saboteurs Involved

In A Fatal Shootout With New Orleans Police

Officers On Sept. 4 At The Danziger Bridge?



By Greg Szymanski

The Sept. 4 gun battle, first killing five and now two on the Danziger Bridge between what was first reported as New Orleans police and U.S. military agents, has turned into a hodge-podge of conflicting reports, misstatements or outright official lies.



An initial report by the Associated Press (AP) claimed five Department of Defense (DOD) personnel were killed by officers at the bridge located on the 5800 block of Chef Menteur Highway near Downman Rd.



The original AP report, however, has since been sanitized with the only copies of the original story kept for posterity at a United Kingdom paper at http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlate and a foreign internet service, La Voz de Aztlan, at http://www.aztlan.net/police_kill_f .



But a quick check of both sites reveals The Guardian link has been deleted and Lo Voz had to provide through email today the original AP story after their link was also inaccessible.



The original AP story since taken down reads in part:



"NEW ORLEANS (AP) - Police shot eight people carrying guns on a New Orleans bridge Sunday, killing five or six, a deputy chief said. A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers said the victims were contractors on their way to repair a canal.



"The contractors were walking across a bridge on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to fix the 17th Street Canal, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Corps.



"Earlier Sunday, New Orleans Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police shot at eight people, killing five or six.



"The shootings took place on the Danziger Bridge, which spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River."





But what now exists from AP is a changed version of the story, either indicating reporter error or more likely an intentional switch since no reference to the original story or even a correction remains.



Notice the huge difference of how the sanitized version of the AP story now reads, saying none of the contractors were killed:





"NEW ORLEANS (AP) - Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on a group of contractors traveling across a bridge on their way to make repairs, authorities said.



"Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police shot at eight people carrying guns, killing five or six.



"Fourteen contractors were traveling across the Danziger Bridge under police escort when they came under fire, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers.



"They were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help plug the breech in the 17th Street Canal, Hall said.





"None of the contractors was injured, Mike Rogers, a disaster relief coordinator with the Army Corps of Engineers, told reporters in Baton Rouge."



And before looking at the official New Orleans police report and public release of the incident, released Tuesday to the Arctic Beacon, serious questions have to be asked regarding what has turned out to be huge discrepancies in all the existing reports or fabrications of the incident.



First, who were the "military agents" originally reported killed while making their way to the 17th

Street Canal levee break? What were they doing there and why did police open fire on federal personnel, as originally reported?



And even more sinister questions have been asked by La Voz after covering the story last September:



"No one is saying anything and it appears that the news story has now been swept under the rug. Were these US Department of Defense personnel a Special Forces group or Navy Seals with top secret orders to sabotaged the levee? There are verifiable reports that at least 100 New Orleans police officers have disappeared from the face of the earth and that two have committed suicide. Could these be policemen that died defending the levee against sabotage by "federal contractors?"





Further, why was it reported that it was necessary to shoot and kill five or six DOD personnel when now the following official report released by the New Orleans police indicates only two civilians were killed and no defense contractors injured.



What makes this even stranger is that for at least two months after the story was released no one was talking about the incident, as it was swept under the rug by AP and not followed up by any major news outlets.



Although reporters make errors, tt is hard to believe professionals can make this big an error, as they first report five to six government personnel killed, which has now been reduced to only two civilians.



The following is the most up-to-date release by the New Orleans Police Department's Public Affairs Office, telling a completely different story than reported in the initial days of the shoot-out:



"New Orleans, La. --This morning members of the New Orleans Police Department issued an update regarding the attempted murder of a Deputy Sheriff with the St. Landry Parish Sheriff's Office, as well is seven members of the New Orleans Police Dept. The incident culminated into the shooting of six people, two of which were fatal. The ordeal occurred September 4, 2001, at approximately 9:00 a.m., on the Danziger Bridge, located in the 5800 block of Chef Menteur Highway near Downman Road.



"New Orleans Police Officers, Sergeant Robert Gisevius and Kenneth Bowen, along with Officers Robert Faulcon, Robert Barrios, AnthonyVillavaso, Michael Hunter and Ignatius Hills, all responded to a call for assistance, two officers 'down" under the Danziger Bridge.



"Simultaneously, Deputy Sheriff David Ryder of the St. I.andry Parish Sheriff's Office requested immediate help from the New Orleans Police Department because he and volunteer rescue personnel (with boats) were receiving gunfire from several persons on the same bridge.



"As the officers drove into the area they were met with gunfire from, at least four suspects at the base of the bridge. The officers positioned themselves and began an exchange of gunfire. The gunmen, along with three other persons, totaling seven, jumped over the side of the concrete barrier onto a walkway, approximately three feet high, and continued the exchange of gunfire, when five persons were shot by officers.



"They are believed to be New Orleans residents and identified as: an unidentified gunman who sustained a gunshot wound to his body and died cm die scene; 19 year-old gunman Jose Holmes who sustained gunshot wounds to his body and is listed in stable condition at nearby hospital; 44-year-old Leonard Bartholomew sustained gunshot wounds to his heel and head and has been released from the hospital; 39-year-old Susan Bartholomew sustained * gunshot wound to her right arm and leg and has been released from the hospital; 17- year-old Leisha Bartholomew was wounded in the abdomen and leg and was treated and released from the hospital.



"Forty-nine-year-old Lance Madison was one of the suspects who ran across the Danziger Bridge along with a second unidentified gunman Madison was seen discarding his handgun into the Industrial Canal. The second suspect continued running to a neaiby mote and was confronted by a New Orleans Police Officer. The suspect reached into his waist and turned toward the officer who fired one shot fatally wounding him. Lance Madison was apprehended a short time later in the same area by the Louisiana State Police.



"When Jose Holmes is released from the hospital, he will be arrested on eight counts of attempted murder of police officers, along with Lance Madison, Leonard Bartholomew, Susan Bartholomew and Leisha Bartholomew were not arrested pending further review as to their involvement; however, the District Attorney is being consulted.



"There is no confirmation that the families of the two decreased suspects were notified. Orleans Parish Coroner's chief investigator John Gagliano will release their names once the families are notified.



"There were separate reports to the police department of sniper fire in the same area. Members of the Louisiana State Police were assisting and were in the process of responding to those reports when the exchange of gunfire began."



For more informative articles, go to www.arcticbeacon.com

[spot]

Does anyone mind if I post a couple of long full-text articles onto this thread? There's been a grand jury convened since the last post and it puts the silence in a more reasonable context, but I'd not like to seem provocative by just pushing it on here without asking first.

[Bill Sikes]

CVX;212460 wrote: The original AP report, however, has since been sanitized with the only copies of the original story kept for posterity at a United Kingdom paper at http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlate and a foreign internet service, La Voz de Aztlan, at http://www.aztlan.net/police_kill_f


The real URL was supposedly:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/s ... 23,00.html

It's not there, as you, or rather your quoted article, indicate. However, if it

was actually printed, it would be fairly trivial to obtain the actual hard copy.

If that's not on, why not e-mail customer help at:

userhelp@guardian.co.uk

and see whether they will forward you the original?

[spot]

Bill Sikes;467460 wrote: The real URL was supposedly:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/s ... 23,00.html

It's not there, as you, or rather your quoted article, indicate. However, if it

was actually printed, it would be fairly trivial to obtain the actual hard copy.

If that's not on, why not e-mail customer help at:

userhelp@guardian.co.uk

and see whether they will forward you the original?The authentic (as opposed to the bowdlerized) original's on news archives, the entire notion of a concerted papertrail coverup is fantasy. It's certainly the case that the topic was dropped like a hot potato within a day, though, which is presumably why the question arose as to why it became an untouchable topic. It's also true that the original reports on the day spoke of a Signal 108 - two officers down - when there were in fact no police injuries.

I'll post the articles if nobody comes into the thread accusing me of provocative posting. I've only hesitated so far because of the state of parallel threads today.

[Bill Sikes]

spot;467469 wrote: I'll post the articles if nobody comes into the thread accusing me of provocative posting. I've only hesitated so far because of the state of parallel threads today.


Oh just get on with it man. If you can't post for fear of an epidemic of mewling,

it's a Bad Thing. Where did you get them?

[spot]

Here's the URL to the radio program which claims to detail the events at the bridge. There's no mention of US Government Levee Saboteurs, of course. No spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers called John Hall claiming that eight of his contractors on their way to repair a canal were shot and five or six of them were dead. John Hall seems to have evaporated from the picture entirely.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=6063982

Three federal civil-rights lawsuits charge that a group of New Orleans police officers gunned down unarmed, innocent citizens in the chaotic days after Hurricane Katrina.

The lawsuits focus on an incident that happened on a bridge in east New Orleans. Two people were killed, including a mentally retarded man shot in the back; two others were maimed.

The police say they were firing in self-defense. Now, a grand jury has begun looking into the shooting.It's not just a series of allegation and counter-comment in the article, it's a very tragic human description of people thrown into an impossible situation, and I don't mean the hurricane.

[spot]

The Grand Jury came to a conclusion, finally.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6216313.stm

"Four New Orleans police officers have been charged with murder in connection with two fatal shootings in the wake of Hurricane Katrina last year. Three more officers were charged with attempted murder for the shootings, which also left four people wounded."

Two quotes:

1. "We cannot allow our police officers to shoot and kill our citizens without justification like rabid dogs," District Attorney Eddie Jordan said.

2. "As a wise man once said, a district attorney can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich," defence lawyer Franz Zibilich said.

[spot]

I note (which wasn't apparent from initial reports) that the Grand Jury dismissed eight counts of attempted first-degree murder hanging over Ronald Madison's brother Lance.

Lance Madison, 50, was cleared of attempted murder charges by the same grand jury that on Thursday indicted seven police officers on murder or attempted murder charges stemming from the shootings on the Danziger Bridge on Sept. 4, 2005.

Madison's brother, Ronald, 40, and James Brissette, 19, were killed and four other people were wounded in the shootings. Police accused Lance Madison of shooting at officers on the bridge, but the grand jury elected not to indict him on eight counts of attempted first-degree murder.

[...]

Sgts. Kenneth Bowen and Robert Gisevius, officer Anthony Villavaso and former officer Robert Faulcon were charged with first-degree murder in Brisette's death. Faulcon, who quit the force after Katrina, also is charged with first-degree murder in Madison's death.

Officers Robert Barrios, Mike Hunter and Ignatius Hills were charged with attempted murder.

[...] District Attorney Eddie Jordan [...] is the target of vicious, expletive-laden attacks on a Web site where rank-and-file officers are posting messages about the indictments. "You'll need us, Jordan," one posting said. "Sooner or later, you'll need us. And when the time comes, we'll sit back and enjoy watching you twist." Another posting questioned where Jordan was after the storm. "Probably looting with the rest of the rabid infested thugs," a user called "Anon" responded.

Leaders of the Fraternal Order of Police and the Police Association of New Orleans are planning fundraisers for the officers' legal defense and for their families. Both groups also are urging officers to support the officers Tuesday by lining the streets outside the jail where the men are to surrender.

A judge said there would be no bond for the four accused of first-degree murder, which carries a possible death sentence. For the other officers, the bond will be $100,000 per count.

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana ... =louisiana

[Nomad]

Justice free from impunity. Its about time. The judicial system and law enforcement should be held to the utmost highest standards beyond question. Its essential. When an officer takes an oath he/she takes a solemn vow and pledge of sincerity to act without bias or prejudice even at the risk of sacrificing their lives. Its the promise theyve made to society.

[BTS]

This thread was started like this:

01-12-2006

"Were US Government Levee Saboteurs Involved

In A Fatal Shootout With New Orleans Police

Officers On Sept. 4 At The Danziger Bridge?"



And ends almost a year later:

12-29-2006

"Four New Orleans police officers have been charged with murder in connection with two fatal shootings in the wake of Hurricane Katrina last year. Three more officers were charged with attempted murder for the shootings, which also left four people wounded."



What happened is a far cry from what was insinuated in CVX's hit piece.

A BIG coverup, Federal Agents....etc.... (might make a great movie:wah: )

But then there are many who will follow ANYthing that will try and harm the USA and our leaders........Even if it is a package of malarkey!!

[spot]

BTS;501660 wrote: What happened is a far cry from what was insinuated in CVX's hit piece.The confusion which fired up the speculation initially was the deliberately distorted and conflicting news reports on the day. I'd not be surprised at all if a cover-up of the truth was the cause of the revoked news releases, the conflicting accounts of officers down and army contractors coming under fire. It's what you get when there's a trigger-happy balls-up by the troops, just look at the friendly-fire mayhem in Afghanistan and the ability to lie which that's brought out in people. General Abazaid still owes a resignation to his country over that, not to mention an unvarnished accounting for the lies he deliberately told.

[BTS]

spot;501732 wrote: The confusion which fired up the speculation initially was the deliberately distorted and conflicting news reports on the day. I'd not be surprised at all if a cover-up of the truth was the cause of the revoked news releases, the conflicting accounts of officers down and army contractors coming under fire. It's what you get when there's a trigger-happy balls-up by the troops, just look at the friendly-fire mayhem in Afghanistan and the ability to lie which that's brought out in people. General Abazaid still owes a resignation to his country over that, not to mention an unvarnished accounting for the lies he deliberately told.
:wah::wah:

[spot]

What an odd time to bump this thread. The court hasn't started, there's appeals regarding the suitability of the judge and it'll be maybe 6 months before any trial gets into gear.

There was a Tribunal held in New Orleans a couple of months ago if anyone wants to read a bit about it. There's meaty presentations there.Jill Soffiyah Elijah, the Deputy Director of the Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard Law School and Coordinating Justice for the International Tribunal on Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, announced the Tribunal’s preliminary findings, “It is our view that the US Government has committed crimes against humanity particularly in relation to its failure to maintain functional levees that should have protected the City of New Orleans from flooding….it was the reckless disregard and, in some instances, negligence of the US government, the state of Louisiana and the city of New Orleans that created the devastation we continue to see today.”

Elijah also announced that the Tribunal made preliminary findings that the federal, state and local governments are guilty of violating the human rights to life, dignity and recognition of personhood; the right to be free from racial discrimination-- especially as it pertains to the actions of law enforcement personnel and vigilantes; the right to return, resettlement and reintegration of internally displaced persons; the right to be free from degrading treatment and punishment; the right to freedom of movement; the right to adequate housing and education; the right to vote and participate in governance and the right to a fair trial, the right to liberty and security of person and the right to equal protection under the law. Both actions and failure to act by the governments had disproportionate devastating impact with respect to race and gender.

The jurists announced that they would deliver their final verdict December 8, 2007—the second anniversary of the Katrina Survivors’ Assembly. In the meantime, prosecutors will be submitting additional evidence and videotaped affidavits from an additional 25 survivors.

[spot]

As far as the trial holdup's concerned, it's discussed in an interview with Romell Madison, former president of the National Dental Association, who lost his brother Ronald on the Danziger Bridge:when the indictments were handed out to the police on December 28th of ’05, they were allowed to turn themselves in January 2nd of ’06, so that they could have this time to spend with their families.

The second thing that the judge did that I feel was incorrect was that he provided bail for first-degree murder. Nowhere in the United States is anyone provided bail for first-degree murder. These individuals were provided bail. One of the officers quit and was allowed to move to Houston, Texas, to leave the state. And that's unheard of also. They were supposed to be on house arrest, and they shouldn't have left -- he shouldn’t have gone anywhere.

Third, they were allowed to go back to work as police in the police department, which is really a tragedy to the public. They’ve fired police for second-degree battery, let alone for being charged for first-degree murder, and allowed them to come back to work as police officers.

The last thing is that the violation of the grand jury testimony, too, by giving it to the defense attorneys for the police, to allow them to find out what’s [inaudible] in it and whether it would have a means to try to have the charges dropped against their clients. Now, that is another violation of civil rights injustice, because no one's allowed to view the grand jury testimony. If that was the case, they could have let the defense attorney decide whether or not they should be charged or not.

Everything has really been the complete opposite of what should be. And finally the judge -- there was a motion for the judge to recuse himself. I don't think just because of this, but because of his air of impropriety that was given in his disclosure. So at this point, that's what we're all working on: his recusal from the case and trying to obtain a judge that will deal with everything strictly by the book and fairly.

[spot]

And, would you believe it, none of the murder charges were brought against the police. They've finally - six years on - been found guilty of covering up the events with invented lies and planting false evidence. Not one of them's been prosecuted for murder. No police were injured that day but the accused trooped out the standard "I was in imminent fear for my life", just like they've been taught ever since they signed up as officers.

Jury convicts 5 current or former New Orleans officers charged in post-Katrina shootings - The Washington Post

[Ahso!]

It's pretty sickening, isn't it. Our police are nothing but a bunch of bullies who go around our schools telling kids not to bully others. The height of hypocrisy.

[spot]

Much was made, by the defense lawyers, of the police being shot at in other incidents earlier that day in New Orleans. I'd be interested to hear whether there are any contemporary claims of such shootings from any primary source other than the police themselves.

[LarsMac]

Ahso!;1364058 wrote: It's pretty sickening, isn't it. Our police are nothing but a bunch of bullies who go around our schools telling kids not to bully others. The height of hypocrisy.


Maybe YOUR police are bullies, but MY police are actually pretty good folk.

[Ahso!]

LarsMac;1364113 wrote: Maybe YOUR police are bullies, but MY police are actually pretty good folk.I guess that depends on how exposed we are to the police. I have family friends and relatives who are police and they appear to be pretty good folk too until they go to work and apply their training. I believe both your police and mine use the same training manual. That training manual teaches the police to behave like bullies.

[LarsMac]

Ahso!;1364126 wrote: I guess that depends on how exposed we are to the police. I have family friends and relatives who are police and they appear to be pretty good folk too until they go to work and apply their training. I believe both your police and mine use the same training manual. That training manual teaches the police to behave like bullies.


Nope. Definitely a different training manual, here.

Our guys are taught to be polite if possible, stern when necessary, and only apply force when unavoidable.

Back east may be another story.

[Ahso!]

LarsMac;1364178 wrote: Nope. Definitely a different training manual, here.

Our guys are taught to be polite if possible, stern when necessary, and only apply force when unavoidable.

Back east may be another story.Like I said, the same. The problem is they misread situations, whether intentionally or not I can't say.

[Ahso!]

Check this one out.

‪Rochester Police Arrest Woman in Her Front Lawn For Filming Traffic Stop‬‏ - YouTube

[spot]

America's more prepared to provide justice when police officers go rogue than England. This has never happened here, despite appalling and egregious foul play on the part of our armed police teams.Five former New Orleans police officers who shot six unarmed civilians, two fatally, on a bridge in the wake of Hurricane Katrina have been jailed. The prison terms range from six to 65 years for the shootings on the Danziger Bridge in September 2005.

Four of the officers were found guilty of firearms offences and the fifth was jailed for helping the cover-up. The officers planted a gun and fabricated witnesses and false reports to make the shootings appear justified.

BBC News - Former policemen in Katrina bridge shootings jailed

[spot]

Though - as an aside - what's now needed is some form of guarantee that the trigger-happy untouchables won't get an early release.

[LarsMac]

LarsMac;1364178 wrote: Nope. Definitely a different training manual, here.

Our guys are taught to be polite if possible, stern when necessary, and only apply force when unavoidable.

Back east may be another story.


Actually, I have to revise my view just a hair.

The town where I live is relatively small, and the police have proved to be as I stated.

Just down the hill in Denver, Police have long held a reputation as bullies.

[Snooz]

They've gone from being "peace officers" to paramilitary thugs. Thanks, Homeland Security!

[LarsMac]

Denver Police have had the rep for at least a century.

And New Orleans Police, even longer. Probably three centuries.

[Snooz]

Can't say I really know much about it but New Orleans police are infamous for being corrupt. But shooting people like that... that's a new low.

[LarsMac]

Some closure, perhaps:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/us/5- ... tings.html

[spot]

SnoozeAgain;1390283 wrote: But shooting people like that... that's a new low.On the contrary, in your country I'd say it was pretty much the norm. Sentencing them to jail like that... that's a new high.

[spot]

For those who missed what they didn't want to see: I bumped this thread specifically to congratulate the US, and Americans in general, for doing something that we English have never succeeded in achieving. Here are the words, unedited and untrimmed.

spot;1390229 wrote: America's more prepared to provide justice when police officers go rogue than England. This has never happened here, despite appalling and egregious foul play on the part of our armed police teams.

[Ahso!]

I caught it first time around. But then I'm not a cr......

[Snooz]

Crayon? Croissant? Crustacean?

[Ahso!]

SnoozeAgain;1390628 wrote: Crayon? Croissant? Crustacean?Count the dots and don't forget one's a period. Uh Oh!

Funny! Females are usually good at fill-in-the-blank games.

[YZGI]

spot;1390612 wrote: For those who missed what they didn't want to see: I bumped this thread specifically to congratulate the US, and Americans in general, for doing something that we English have never succeeded in achieving. Here are the words, unedited and untrimmed.


BRAVO!!! 1 post pro America 8,479 anti America. I reckon we have to start somewhere.





I bet that almost killed you old chap.:wah:

[Snooz]

Crudite?