This is what is really wrong with us as a nation.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:55 am

McDonalds Files Appeal after the Death of Two Blinn College Students

Not only does this make it appear that the folks that beat him weren't at fault at all - they ran a stop light and were hit and yet mcdonalds is to pay them 27 million.:-5

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:07 am

flopstock;1475630 wrote: This is what is really wrong with us as a nation.McDonalds Files Appeal after the Death of Two Blinn College Students

What is wrong with your country is the threat of poverty for the average American citizen on a daily basis. Both the attorneys and the parents might become wealthy over the death of the students. How much money you reckon they'd get if they tried to sue the thugs who did the beating or the one's who ran the red light?

:yh_questn:yh_questn:yh_questn

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:44 am

Well since they were the ones who ran the red light, it seems that they were ultimately responsible for their own demise.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:54 am

LarsMac;1475636 wrote: Well since they were the ones who ran the red light, it seems that they were ultimately responsible for their own demise.

I don't rightly knows Lars, when them neon lights in the golden arches gets to blinkin' it ain't all that easy to concetrat on the road in front of yer eyes. I b'lieve them there macdonalds folks are ta blame.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:05 am

I haven't read the piece but it always amuses me when middle-class people show support for corporations that: underpay their employees, refuse to offer healthcare, sell crap they claim to be nutritious food, exploit child/parent relationships, refuse to pay fair compensation to entertainers they hire (and a litany of other questionable practices) in the name of fairness.

Just makes me laugh.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:07 am

That, btw, is what's wrong with america.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:15 am

LarsMac;1475636 wrote: Well since they were the ones who ran the red light, it seems that they were ultimately responsible for their own demise.

But they aren't. Instead their families get 27 million from McDonalds if this is not thrown out.

Here's the one that I think started it all... Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:24 am

The claim is that McDonalds were negligent in the security of the car park where the kid got beaten up. By that same logic shouldn't the Government / Councils be held legally liable for every mugging / murder commited within their borders for being negligent of the security in their towns & cities.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:27 am

Ahso!;1475643 wrote: I haven't read the piece but it always amuses me when middle-class people show support for corporations that: underpay their employees, refuse to offer healthcare, sell crap they claim to be nutritious food, exploit child/parent relationships, refuse to pay fair compensation to entertainers they hire (and a litany of other questionable practices) in the name of fairness.

Just makes me laugh.

Well, then, you should probably read the article. because this isn't really about all of that. It's not really about McDonalds, at all.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:32 am

Ahso!;1475643 wrote: I haven't read the piece but it always amuses me when middle-class people show support for corporations that: underpay their employees, refuse to offer healthcare, sell crap they claim to be nutritious food, exploit child/parent relationships, refuse to pay fair compensation to entertainers they hire (and a litany of other questionable practices) in the name of fairness.

Just makes me laugh.

I don't know if laughing is the right response. Consider a drunken and abusive father. He beats his wife. He beats and even sexually molests his children. He's drunk most of the time and he badgers his family and blames them for all of his short-comings â€¦

â€œIf you were more supportive and stopped nagging all of the time I would be making more money and wouldn't need to go to the pub every night after work to avoid coming home to your incessant bitching!â€

And what do the children do? That's right â€¦.... it would be a disgrace to the whole family if they were to tell their teachers what is happening behind closed doors so they say nothing, even telling others what wonderful parents they have! Well, either that or get one hell of a beating as a disciplinary measure.

It's very similar to the national, American situation. The population is being held ransom by its own government and the people themselves are too frightened to speak.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:38 am

LarsMac;1475647 wrote: Well, then, you should probably read the article. because this isn't really about all of that. It's not really about McDonalds, at all.I'm addressing the title of the thread and the tenor of the op.

Mark Aspam · Post by **Mark Aspam** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:45 am

flopstock;1475630 wrote: McDonalds Files Appeal after the Death of Two Blinn College Students

Not only does this make it appear that the folks that beat him weren't at fault at all - they ran a stop light and were hit and yet mcdonalds is to pay them 27 million.:-5There are several problems with your assessment of the incident.

Firstly, you give no details. Here is a post to a TV station website from a resident of the area:

The problem was that this was not an isolated incident. McDonald's Management at that location allowed this problem to grow out of control for many months before this incident happened. Police had been called there several times and fights where common by the late night drunk patrons.

To an unsuspecting customer this place was a hotbed for violence. McDonalds disregard for the safety of their customers leads to their direct liability. If Wal-Mart allows armed thugs to hang out in their parking lots to rob customers as they exit the building is it the responsibility of Wal-Mart (which is their property) to secure the parking lot or the customers?

That paints a different picture.

Secondly, the outcome is still in doubt, it's possible that the restaurant might be exonerated so it is not, at this point "to pay them 27 million".

Thirdly, what on earth does such an isolated incident have to do with "us as a nation"?

Fourthly, the Lieback incident was clearly McDonald's fault.

Fifthly, in response to another poster, you certainly have a right to your assessment of McDonald's food. I eat there a lot, especially for breakfast, they list EXTENSIVE nutrition information on the back of every placemat, if you think that a certain item is unhealthy for you, order something else. They offer many lo-cal and reduced fat choices, their salads are downright delicious and always fresh.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:48 am

Wasn't it McDonalds who were first sued for not putting warnings that their Hot Apple Pies were Hot, or that their Hot Coffee was Hot. The problem is not with McDonalds. It's with the Litigation Society, and the culture of Sue, Sue, Sue.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:57 pm

Liebeck vs Mcdonald from the NY Times video. I was under the impression everyone already knew this.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:24 pm

Ahso!;1475643 wrote: I haven't read the piece but it always amuses me when middle-class people show support for corporations that: underpay their employees, refuse to offer healthcare, sell crap they claim to be nutritious food, exploit child/parent relationships, refuse to pay fair compensation to entertainers they hire (and a litany of other questionable practices) in the name of fairness.

Just makes me laugh.

Mark Aspam;1475653 wrote:

Fifthly, in response to another poster, you certainly have a right to your assessment of McDonald's food. I eat there a lot, especially for breakfast, they list EXTENSIVE nutrition information on the back of every placemat, if you think that a certain item is unhealthy for you, order something else. They offer many lo-cal and reduced fat choices, their salads are downright delicious and always fresh.Mea culpa!

Mark Aspam · Post by **Mark Aspam** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:52 pm

Ahso!;1475663 wrote: Mea culpa!Not necessary - as I said, you are entitled. I've never considered whether their employees are underpaid, my twin stepdaughters worked there after school when they were teenagers and enjoyed the experience and the money, but of course, they didn't have to raise a family on their earnings. For those who do, nothing is preventing them from seeking more lucrative employment, and I have no doubt that many do so.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:30 pm

An acquaintance oversees a dozen or so Mcdonald stores in NY and one daughter worked there. It's fine for kids but this economy has forced many adults into the fastfood service industry. The companies love it because adults are more reliabe and responsible so the industry hires them. The company get an upgrade in help and doesn't compensate accordingly.

I'm aware that that's the deal and companies aren't required to pay aduts more, however, you'd think they would do so simply because it's the right thing to do.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:39 pm

Ahso!;1475668 wrote: I'm aware that that's the deal and companies aren't required to pay adults more, however, you'd think they would do so simply because it's the right thing to do.

Since when should we trust big business to 'Do the right thing' ?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:43 pm

Bruv;1475670 wrote: Since when should we trust big business to 'Do the right thing' ?

Disband what's left of unions, big business will do right by us, after all, it's the right thing to do. It's not in this case. Why should an adult doing the same work as a kid be paid more because of age? Women (& I was one of them) used to be told a man should be paid more because he is responsible for a family, even if he were single. Equal Pay for Equal Work applies to age, too.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:14 pm

AnneBoleyn;1475671 wrote: Disband what's left of unions, big business will do right by us, after all, it's the right thing to do. It's not in this case. Why should an adult doing the same work as a kid be paid more because of age? Women (& I was one of them) used to be told a man should be paid more because he is responsible for a family, even if he were single. Equal Pay for Equal Work applies to age, too.

You are being sarcastic .....right ?

Many years ago I worked as what you call a Mailman, over here a Postman, anyway.......I was 18 ish top wage was reached only when you attained 21 years if I remember correctly. Meanwhile men and women working side by side were on the same money, some big strapping Amazon women could throw those mailbags around better than the men, some women were afraid to split their nails.

Meanwhile come delivery time the women were allowed a lighter load, because they were women, whatever their build or abilities. 18 year old males on less money carried the full weight.

I have worked in mostly small companies since then and to be realistic a married man with a family doing the same job as a single 18 year old is by and large a lot more reliable. Give that same 18 year old a child and many will raise their game.

In an ideal world everybody should be paid according to their value to the boss, but with bigger companies that is often not possible due to the personalities involved.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:19 pm

AnneBoleyn;1475671 wrote: Disband what's left of unions, big business will do right by us, after all, it's the right thing to do. It's not in this case. Why should an adult doing the same work as a kid be paid more because of age? Women (& I was one of them) used to be told a man should be paid more because he is responsible for a family, even if he were single. Equal Pay for Equal Work applies to age, too.The cheap low wage was a consequence of the fact that kids would do the job. Had adults been tageted in the first place the wage would have been higher from the get go. Don't go with precedence in this case. The wages for kids should be higher too though.

When it comes to the economy only one goal should be kept in mind and that is for each and every person to make a living wage at minimum so all can participate. That's what this economic model is based on and when it functions best. Not some silly refusal to be flexible.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:25 pm

AnneBoleyn;1475671 wrote: Disband what's left of unions, big business will do right by us, after all, it's the right thing to do. It's not in this case. Why should an adult doing the same work as a kid be paid more because of age? Women (& I was one of them) used to be told a man should be paid more because he is responsible for a family, even if he were single. Equal Pay for Equal Work applies to age, too.
I certainly hope that's meant as tongue in cheek. As a direct descendant of James Brine (one of the Tolpuddle Martyrs - the first ever Trade Union), I am proud to be very pro-Union. If it wasn't for the Unions you wouldn't have the working conditions you enjoy today. Did you see the documentary about Apple & their sweat shops in China a few weeks back? That is what working conditions would be like without the Unions. Of course Apple, as a big company, can be relied on to 'do the right thing'.

Maybe not the case in America, but in the U.K. there are different rates according to age (21 & Over = Â£6.50, 18 - 20 = Â£5.13, Under 18 = Â£3.79, Apprentice = Â£2.73 - https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates). Would this be the case if it weren't for the Unions? If the Unions were disbanded do you really think conditions would continue to improve, or even stay the same. Remember that Unions also provide a hell of a lot more services for their members than just Pay & Conditions as well, such as Legal Services, Financial Advice, Arbitration, etc. Gone are the days of "Everybody Out" at the drop of a hat.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:05 am

Mark Aspam;1475653 wrote: There are several problems with your assessment of the incident.

Firstly, you give no details. Here is a post to a TV station website from a resident of the area:

The problem was that this was not an isolated incident. McDonald's Management at that location allowed this problem to grow out of control for many months before this incident happened. Police had been called there several times and fights where common by the late night drunk patrons.

To an unsuspecting customer this place was a hotbed for violence. McDonalds disregard for the safety of their customers leads to their direct liability. If Wal-Mart allows armed thugs to hang out in their parking lots to rob customers as they exit the building is it the responsibility of Wal-Mart (which is their property) to secure the parking lot or the customers?

That paints a different picture.

Secondly, the outcome is still in doubt, it's possible that the restaurant might be exonerated so it is not, at this point "to pay them 27 million".

Thirdly, what on earth does such an isolated incident have to do with "us as a nation"?

Fourthly, the Lieback incident was clearly McDonald's fault.

Fifthly, in response to another poster, you certainly have a right to your assessment of McDonald's food. I eat there a lot, especially for breakfast, they list EXTENSIVE nutrition information on the back of every placemat, if you think that a certain item is unhealthy for you, order something else. They offer many lo-cal and reduced fat choices, their salads are downright delicious and always fresh.

1st - I linked to the story. While I personally don't think I would be quoting someones comments as fact does not mean I don't respect your right to do so.

2nd I think I cover that. http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/bizar ... ost1475645

3rd Every incident can be isolated. That you choose not to see the same pattern and resulting reflection on us as a nation- that I see from the 'isolated incidents' in our court systems- is fine with me.

4th The lieback case may well have been McDonalds fault. I still see that as the point when america decided there were easier ways to succeed than hard work. Nothing was ever allowed to be simply an accident again. Someone was always at fault and gonna pay for it.

5th McDonalds has some great salads. It is, however, very hard for me to NOT get a side of fries when I stop for a salad. It is also my 1ft choice for my iced tea 'on the go';)

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:31 am

flopstock;1475683 wrote: 1st - I linked to the story. While I personally don't think I would be quoting someones comments as fact does not mean I don't respect your right to do so.

2nd I think I cover that. http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/bizar ... ost1475645

3rd Every incident can be isolated. That you choose not to see the same pattern and resulting reflection on us as a nation- that I see from the 'isolated incidents' in our court systems- is fine with me.

4th The lieback case may well have been McDonalds fault. I still see that as the point when america decided there were easier ways to succeed than hard work. Nothing was ever allowed to be simply an accident again. Someone was always at fault and gonna pay for it.

5th McDonalds has some great salads. It is, however, very hard for me to NOT get a side of fries when I stop for a salad. It is also my 1ft choice for my iced tea 'on the go';)
Excessive generalizations.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:33 am

FourPart: "I certainly hope that's meant as tongue in cheek."

It was. I am also a descendant of union organizers & my Grandma Rose marched in the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire demonstrations & was a force in the Workman's Circle.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:42 am

AnneBoleyn;1475688 wrote: FourPart: "I certainly hope that's meant as tongue in cheek."

It was. I am also a descendant of union organizers & my Grandma Rose marched in the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire demonstrations & was a force in the Workman's Circle.
Good for you. I'm glad we have so much in common.

"Power To The People!"