Bailout Bill Text

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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Found it! 110 pages (so far). It's a pdf file, in case you need to know that.



http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/20 ... 631254.pdf
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Post by Galbally »

Yeah I saw it, its nearly as bad as the Lisbon Treaty text that we were somehow supposed to have a referendum on this year here in Ireland (its an EU thing). I dunno, I don't have time to read it right now as I have better things to be doing with me life, but let us know if you find anything interesting (like the provision that the collatoral for the money will be the 300,000,000 souls of the American population, payable to one

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Post by spot »

The obvious question is in section 101 e (Preventing unjust enrichment) about paying more for the soiled mortgage than the property is worth now. That's enabled for all mortgages and is, I suppose, what the bill's for.

It goes further though, it says the bail-out body can pay anything up to the amount the "seller paid to purchase the asset". That sounds like more than the bank paid the asset buyer. It is buyer instead of seller, presumably? Anyway, it's authorized to more than the amount of the mortgage, I dislike that.

It goes further still. There's no maximum the soiled mortgage can be valued at by the bail-out body if it's a soiled mortgage that was acquired by merger or acquisition or from a company in receivership or bankruptcy or conservatorship. In all those cases the bailout body can pay any amount at all, no ceiling, for the soiled mortgage.

Why would the bill be so generous?
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Post by Nomad »

spot;1000442 wrote: The obvious question is in section 101 e (Preventing unjust enrichment) about paying more for the soiled mortgage than the property is worth now. That's enabled for all mortgages and is, I suppose, what the bill's for.



It goes further though, it says the bail-out body can pay anything up to the amount the "seller paid to purchase the asset". That sounds like more than the bank paid the asset buyer. It is buyer instead of seller, presumably? Anyway, it's authorized to more than the amount of the mortgage, I dislike that.



It goes further still. There's no maximum the soiled mortgage can be valued at by the bail-out body if it's a soiled mortgage that was acquired by merger or acquisition or from a company in receivership or bankruptcy or conservatorship. In all those cases the bailout body can pay any amount at all, no ceiling, for the soiled mortgage.



Why would the bill be so generous?




What ?
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Post by qsducks »

The House just defeated the bill.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

spot;1000442 wrote: The obvious question is in section 101 e (Preventing unjust enrichment) about paying more for the soiled mortgage than the property is worth now. That's enabled for all mortgages and is, I suppose, what the bill's for.

It goes further though, it says the bail-out body can pay anything up to the amount the "seller paid to purchase the asset". That sounds like more than the bank paid the asset buyer. It is buyer instead of seller, presumably? Anyway, it's authorized to more than the amount of the mortgage, I dislike that.

It goes further still. There's no maximum the soiled mortgage can be valued at by the bail-out body if it's a soiled mortgage that was acquired by merger or acquisition or from a company in receivership or bankruptcy or conservatorship. In all those cases the bailout body can pay any amount at all, no ceiling, for the soiled mortgage.

Why would the bill be so generous?


On a similar subject, would you care to explain why the British government has just sold £2.5bn in deposits and a couple of hundred prime sited commercial premises to a foreign company for £621m?
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Post by Galbally »

Seems fairly academic now anyway as its been defeated by the House of Representatives, in a way I am impressed that the body politic has refused to be blackmailed by talk of financial armageddon, on the other hand its worrying as god knows what is going to happen tomorrow when the stock markets open.
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Post by spot »

Bryn Mawr;1001026 wrote: On a similar subject, would you care to explain why the British government has just sold £2.5bn in deposits and a couple of hundred prime sited commercial premises to a foreign company for £621m?


I finally worked out what the numbers were. It's 2.6 million deposit accounts which look as though they're valued as worth £50 each to the bank. The remaining £480m is goodwill, plant, the branch system and presumably the existing pension fund. The content of the deposit accounts isn't being bought, it's transferred, it still belongs to the depositors.
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Post by guppy »

I read the bailout was rejected because of ( ) cant remember her name requested the investigation into severance pay from any ceos that are in charge of these failing institutions and that she wanted it passed that at the end of five years any bailout money loaned out had to be repayed by the institution that received the money...
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Post by spot »

Nobody changes the text of these bills during the debate and vote. What they voted on was what was expected by the President to be passed. 60% of his Democrat political enemies set aside partisan matters and supported his request. 67% of his own Republican party representatives rejected his request and voted against, which pushed the vote to rejection. How can what Pelosi said in her address make any difference to what was voted on? The bill was the bill.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

spot;1001384 wrote: I finally worked out what the numbers were. It's 2.6 million deposit accounts which look as though they're valued as worth £50 each to the bank. The remaining £480m is goodwill, plant, the branch system and presumably the existing pension fund. The content of the deposit accounts isn't being bought, it's transferred, it still belongs to the depositors.


I am a dumbclutz!

How can I not have twigged that the headlines included the depositors money - ooops :confused:
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Post by spot »

It was the final speech before the vote?

So all those Republicans who stood up and said no before her speech were no-voters regardless of her address?

It makes you wonder why you bother having a President at all, if he can only get cooperation from the Opposition party.
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Post by Lon »

There has been a huge number of emails sent to members of the House and Senate from their respective constituents. Polls have indicated that the American taxpayer was split on whether they support the Bailout. That being the case, Senators and Congressmen were merely following the wishes of their constituents. I think that's how our government is supposed to work.
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Post by spot »

Well bravo, Lon. It's worth doing so long as they hold out and refuse to say yes when they're asked a second time. And a third. Otherwise they're just fudging by putting it off.
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Post by Accountable »

I tried to post the table, but no luck. Here's the roll call vote results. How did your rep vote?



http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

My guy voted NO. :yh_clap

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 47.htmlRep. Ciro Rodriguez, D-San Antonio, said he was also inclined to vote against the bill – mostly because it still looks like Washington is mopping up Wall Street's failures, he said.

Whether "it passes or fails, you'll see Republicans and Democrats on both sides," Mr. Rodriguez said. "Everybody is having difficulty with this."
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Hoss;1003470 wrote: I read the proposed text of Nancy Pelosi's speech, and then listened to it. The prepared text isn’t anything like what she said.



I'd have objected, and asked for her to retract her words an apologize before I voted, and when she refused I'd publicized from the rooftop that her partisan politics in the middle of a crisis was business as usual for her and her liberal buddies. She doesn’t care about ‘mainstreet’, she only cares about how this will make her more powerful than the republicans. What a sad state her liberal group is in.



It was an attack on President Bush and the republicans nothing more, she stated 'the party is over' I think she was referring to the Republican Party in context. That was absolutely uncalled for. I'd have dug my heels in and fast after that comment.
Imagine you've moved out of your house to an apartment of your own. One day the building catches fire. Your home is burning down. Another tenant (call her Nancy) is getting a bucket line together to fight the fire until the firefighters come. You know throwing buckets of water will do little good, and might be futile, but doing nothing might mean letting the place burn to the ground, and you and everyone in the building will lose everything. Nancy is yakking nonstop about how this fire was probably started by the pot smokers in apartment 215, how you just can't trust young people anymore, and that anyone under 25 should not be allowed to have an apartment. Toss a couple other complaints in there if you want, but I think you get the idea.



Do you grab a bucket and tell her to just shut up and bail, or do you dig in your heels and refuse to help with bucket line?
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Post by Accountable »

Here's a question for those that are still under the delusion that the Democratic Party and Republican Party are separate entities with opposing views and goals:



Why is the bi-partisan, bicameral approach to "fixing" this government-created crisis focused on the corporate end without any consideration given to the citizens who have supposedly been duped & hoodwinked by those corporations? Isn't Obama yakking in his speeches about a "trickle-up" approach to the economy?





The Trickle-Up Bailout

By Jonathan G.S. Koppell and William N. Goetzmann

Wednesday, October 1, 2008; Page A17



The theory underlying the bailout plan stalled in Congress is that rescuing the finance industry will restore market stability and that the benefits will eventually trickle down to average Americans. Thus, solving the subprime mortgage crisis has morphed into a much larger challenge: reassembling the architecture of the financial markets, which seemingly requires giving the Treasury secretary nearly a trillion dollars and extraordinary latitude to pick winners and losers.



There is an easier and more politically palatable fix: Pay off all the delinquent mortgages.

(continues ... )



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Post by spot »

Hoss;1003734 wrote: It angers me when people make an agreement, then dig those last jabs in when they think they have gotten the better of the deal. It's belittling, and just plain wrong. Her party politics is the worst of the bunch. She hates President Bush and will destroy anything he wants to do for spite.It was, you'll admit, the 67% of Republicans voting NO which brought down the President's bill, and it was Nancy Pelosi who voted in favor of it. You're straining to allocate blame here and the simple answer is that it was voted down because the President couldn't command his own troops.
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Hoss;1003763 wrote: You have Pelosi, and the liberal democratic ilks that hate President Bush so much that they want any jab at him on the way out as they can.You really are dodging the fact that it's the President's proposal, that the Democrat majority believed him when he announced that it was essential that it be passed and that she pressed as hard as possible for a Yes vote.
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Post by spot »

We'll watch what happens on Friday then, when the President has a second shot at it. Perhaps he'll be able to muster more Republican votes this time.
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Post by Accountable »

Hoss;1003734 wrote: I move her away from the dangerous area; someone so inept at the job needs to be saved from herself. She's dangerous to the health of our government.



It angers me when people make an agreement, then dig those last jabs in when they think they have gotten the better of the deal. It's belittling, and just plain wrong. Her party politics is the worst of the bunch. She hates President Bush and will destroy anything he wants to do for spite.
Moving her out is not an option in the middle of this fight, only after. I think that you (or I) would fight the fire if it were important to fight, regardless of what she said - then rip her apart later. But if we were not particularly committed to the fight and were there simply to support a friend because he begged, then we'd both be out of there. Do you see?
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Post by Accountable »

spot;1003743 wrote: It was, you'll admit, the 67% of Republicans voting NO which brought down the President's bill, and it was Nancy Pelosi who voted in favor of it. You're straining to allocate blame here and the simple answer is that it was voted down because the President couldn't command his own troops.
The Democratic Party represents over half the votes cast. Had they not split the bill would have passed.



Since you have no dog in this hunt, I can only conclude you are shitstirring. Close your mouth (both sides) and begone. You're dismissed.
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Hoss;1003909 wrote: LOL, it’s not the President's proposal, his was 12-13 pages, and hers is 100 plus pages, and a smack in the back of his head. She pressed as hard as possible for her version of the bill to go through, she wanted her 'save' of the economy so she could then say again how inept he is and how his plan wouldn't have worked.
You're probably right to some degree. There's never a bad time to play partisan politics, and she's addicted to it.



By the way, the original proposal was only 3 pages.
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Post by spot »

The Bill goes back to the House on Friday, as amended?

I wonder how many of the House Democrats will hold out who said no last time. And how many of the Republicans will hold out who said no last time. It takes a combined thirteen to switch for it to be passed. I can't see anyone who said Yes on Monday stiffening their backbone and saying No when asked a second time.

But then, nobody thought they'd defeat the Bill last time. Who can guess.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081002/pl ... cepolitics

The Senate sweetened the original deal, which gives the US Treasury the power to buy up toxic mortgage debt choking the financial industry, to court conservative Republicans who helped block the original version in the House.



Senators raised the ceiling on federal insurance for bank deposits from 100,000 dollars to 250,000 dollars, and added up to 100 billion dollars in tax break extensions for middle class families and business.

They also retained the limits of "golden parachute" severance payments to disgraced Wall Street executives which were not in the original Bush administration plan.

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http://www.latimes.com/business/investi ... 7485.story

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) said the new version of the bill contained a biodiesel tax credit he had championed, but he still planned to vote against the measure again. However, other lawmakers may be swayed, he said.



"I think that they probably put enough sweeteners in it that they will be able to get the votes," King said in an interview.



Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) was similarly unpersuaded. "The Senate measure has changed my position from 'No' to 'Heck no,' " he said. "With the Senate amendment, the bailout has gone from bad to worse, $105 billion more in public debt worse."



Some of the changes appeared aimed at enticing specific lawmakers to change their votes from no to yes.



... the bill now includes a provision to boost insurance coverage of mental illness, a priority of Rep. Jim Ramstad (R-Minn.), who voted against the bailout bill Monday. It also includes a tax benefit for bicycle commuting sought by Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.), also a no vote on Monday. And there's an extension of the renewable energy tax credit, a priority of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), who wants to make Arizona the "Silicon Valley of solar energy."

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Post by spot »

Hoss;1005182 wrote: Can President Bush Veto it?He's on the phone pressing those who are reluctant, to vote in favor!

I have a slight puzzle - in England a "tax break" is the amount at which one tax band ends and another begins. What's a tax break in America?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

spot;1004162 wrote: We'll watch what happens on Friday then, when the President has a second shot at it. Perhaps he'll be able to muster more Republican votes this time.


So Congress has no concept of the whip then? I must say it's one of the aspects of the Commons I find least acceptable so one up to the USA.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1004530 wrote: The Democratic Party represents over half the votes cast. Had they not split the bill would have passed.



Since you have no dog in this hunt, I can only conclude you are shitstirring. Close your mouth (both sides) and begone. You're dismissed.


You are expecting 100% support from the opposition to get a bill through? You're dreaming!

BTW - the whole world has a stake in this vote, the US could bring down the global economy if it messes up so don't be surprised if non-Americans comment on what is going on in Washington - it's not sh!tstirring, it's personal involvement.
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Accountable;1004943 wrote: http://www.latimes.com/business/investi ... 5.storyRep. Steve King (R-Iowa) said the new version of the bill contained a biodiesel tax credit he had championed, but he still planned to vote against the measure again. However, other lawmakers may be swayed, he said.



"I think that they probably put enough sweeteners in it that they will be able to get the votes," King said in an interview.



Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) was similarly unpersuaded. "The Senate measure has changed my position from 'No' to 'Heck no,' " he said. "With the Senate amendment, the bailout has gone from bad to worse, $105 billion more in public debt worse."



Some of the changes appeared aimed at enticing specific lawmakers to change their votes from no to yes.



... the bill now includes a provision to boost insurance coverage of mental illness, a priority of Rep. Jim Ramstad (R-Minn.), who voted against the bailout bill Monday. It also includes a tax benefit for bicycle commuting sought by Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.), also a no vote on Monday. And there's an extension of the renewable energy tax credit, a priority of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), who wants to make Arizona the "Silicon Valley of solar energy."






What the hell does any of this have to do with the financial crisis and the US banking / mortgage industry? It's a farce!
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Scrat;1005870 wrote: The renewable energy tax credit is not a bad thing, just for anyone that doesn't know all of these little things attached to bills in Washington are called "riders". They are little perks that individual politicians attach to bills, some are good but then sometimes you will find one that wants money for research into cow flatulance.

The individual representatives do it to get goodies for their districts.


A bill should address a subject - different subject, different bill.

Anything else muddies the water and results in unintended consequences.
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;1005869 wrote: What the hell does any of this have to do with the financial crisis and the US banking / mortgage industry? It's a farce!


Bryn Mawr;1005879 wrote: A bill should address a subject - different subject, different bill.



Anything else muddies the water and results in unintended consequences.
Correct on both counts!
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Post by spot »

So, it's done and passed.

What do you call someone who prefers to serve an eight year jail sentence starting next summer instead of a two year sentence starting tomorrow?
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