Clipper;547735 wrote: Winston Churchill hoodwinked our President into the war and saved your a$$es for sure. I don't recall seeing anything in print about the Brits complaining about THAT.
No grief Clipper, but I would certainly be interested in some background / justification to this.
Cause of WWII - A Question
Cause of WWII - A Question
Sorry Clip, don't think it was Churchill hoodwinking us. 
On December 7, 1941, while German armies were freezing before Moscow, Japan suddenly pushed the United States into the struggle by attacking the American naval base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Four days later Hitler declared war on the United States. President Roosevelt called on Congress for immediate and massive expansion of the armed forces. Twenty years of neglect and indifference, however, could not be overcome in a few days.
http://www.worldwariihistory.info/WWII/ ... tates.html
On December 7, 1941, while German armies were freezing before Moscow, Japan suddenly pushed the United States into the struggle by attacking the American naval base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Four days later Hitler declared war on the United States. President Roosevelt called on Congress for immediate and massive expansion of the armed forces. Twenty years of neglect and indifference, however, could not be overcome in a few days.
http://www.worldwariihistory.info/WWII/ ... tates.html
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;547809 wrote: Read away gents.........
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/events/index.html
Care to give us a pointer? 400+ pages with many pages of references to Churchill and the President will take many hours to wade through.
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/events/index.html
Care to give us a pointer? 400+ pages with many pages of references to Churchill and the President will take many hours to wade through.
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;547816 wrote: Churchill had plans to get us into the war long before Japan bombed PH....
I used to have WC's Memoirs bookmarked but lost it when my pooter crashed last year.:-1
hmm I'm with Bryn, tell us what pages specifically to read in your reference. I looked and my eyes started crossing
I used to have WC's Memoirs bookmarked but lost it when my pooter crashed last year.:-1
hmm I'm with Bryn, tell us what pages specifically to read in your reference. I looked and my eyes started crossing
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;547816 wrote: Churchill had plans to get us into the war long before Japan bombed PH....
I used to have WC's Memoirs bookmarked but lost it when my pooter crashed last year.:-1
I think that we do need some support for this statement.
Are you saying that Churchill engineered PH?
I used to have WC's Memoirs bookmarked but lost it when my pooter crashed last year.:-1
I think that we do need some support for this statement.
Are you saying that Churchill engineered PH?
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;547842 wrote: No WC did NOT engineer PH....but he KNEW the attack was coming.
but only because the President told him :p
but only because the President told him :p
Cause of WWII - A Question
Bryn Mawr;547847 wrote: but only because the President told him :p
It was the Americans who had the Japanese codes, not the British. The only people who weren't told in advance were all stationed in Pearl Harbour.
Yes Churchill and Roosevelt exchanged letters angling the US into the war. That was Roosevelt's intention as well as Churchill's.
Sheryl's quote ignores the build-up of US forces which Roosevelt had instigated from 1939 onward. Actually, other than ignoring Roosevelt's electoral promise not to take the US to war, the 1944 propaganda pamphlet Clipper offered is quite good at showing the steps along the way. I'd quite like to have that recognised, so excuse me while I flood the thread a little. I'd contend that, given the US agreement to supply the Russians, there was no need whatever for the US to deploy any troops in Europe. The only thing which caused that was Roosevelt's determination to be over here at all. Anyway - the quotes... better out in the open than stuck away in a Word file nobody can read quickly enough...November 4 1939. The United States repealed the arms embargo in favor of a cash and carry policy. Neutrality Act of 1939.
May 16 1940. President Roosevelt asked new defense appropriations. ("First, to procure the essential equipment of all kinds for a larger and thoroughly rounded out Army; Second, to replace or modernize all old Army and Navy equipment with the latest type of equipment; Third, to increase production facilities for everything needed for the Army and Navy for national defense. We require the ability to turn out quickly infinitely greater supplies; Fourth, to speed up to a 24 hour basis all existing Army and Navy contracts and all new contracts to be awarded... Our task is plain. The road we must take is clearly indicated. Our defenses must be invulnerable, our security absolute. But our defense as it was yesterday, or even as it is today, does not provide security against potential developments and dangers of the future. Defense cannot be static. Defense must grow and change from day to day. Defense must be dynamic and flexible, an expression of the vital farces of the nation and of its resolute will to meet whatever challenge the future may hold."
May 3l 1940. President Roosevelt asked Congress for "acceleration and development of our military and naval needs as measured in both machines and men." ("... the almost incredible events of the then past two weeks in the European conflict had necessitated another enlargement of our military program...")
June 10 1940. President Roosevelt promised to "extend to the opponents of force the material resources of this Nation and, at the same time, we will harness and speed up the use of those resources in order that we ourselves in the Americas may have equipment and training equal to the task of any emergency and every defense." ("... the hand that held the dagger has struck it into the back of its neighbor.")
June 13 1940. President Roosevelt promised redoubled help for France and the Allies. ("... because of our faith in and our support of the ideals for which the Allies are fighting. The magnificent resistance of the French and British armies has profoundly impressed the American people.")
June 15 1940. President Roosevelt promised France material aid. ("... so long as the French people continue in defense of their liberty which constitutes the cause of popular institutions, throughout the world, ...")
July 10 1940. President Roosevelt asked Congress for additional appropriations for defense. ("Again today, in less than 2 months' time, the changes in the world situation are so great and so profound that I must come once again to the Congress to advise concerning new threats, new needs, and the imperative necessity of meeting them... In broad outline our immediate objectives are as follows: First. To carry forward the naval expansion program designed to build up the Navy to meet any possible combination of hostile naval forces. Second. To complete the total equipment for a land force of approximately 1,200,000 men, though of course this total of men would not be in the Army in time of peace. Third. To procure reserve stocks of tanks, guns, artillery, ammunition, etc., for another 800,000 men or a total of 2,000,000 men if a mobilization of such a force should become necessary. Fourth. To provide for manufacturing facilities, public and private, necessary to produce critical items of equipment for a land force of 2,000,000 men, and to produce the ordnance items required for the aircraft program of the Army and Navy guns, bombs, armor, bombsights and ammunition. Fifth. Procurement of 15,000 additional planes for the Army and 4,000 for the Navy, complete with necessary spare engines, armaments, and the most modern equipment.")
August 20 1940. Prime Minister Churchill declared willingness to lease bases to the United States. ("... anxiety was also felt in the United States about the air and naval defense of their Atlantic seaboard, and President Roosevelt has recently made it clear that he would like to discuss with us, and with the Dominion of Canada and with Newfoundland, the development of American naval and air facilities in Newfoundland and in the West Indies... . His Majesty's Government are entirely willing, to accord defence facilities to the United States ... and we feel sure that our interests, no less than theirs ... will be served thereby.")
October 12 1940. President Roosevelt said America aimed to defend the Western Hemisphere. ("We of the Americas still consider that this defense of these oceans of the Western Hemisphere against acts of aggression is the first factor in the defense and protection of our own territorial integrity. We reaffirm that policy, lest there be any doubt of our intention to maintain it... We are building a total defense on land and sea and in the air, sufficient to repel total attack from any part. of the world... The core of our defense is the faith we have in the institutions we defend. The Americas will not be scared or threatened into the ways the dictators want us to follow... The people of the United States, the people of all the Americas, reject the doctrine of appeasement. They recognize it for what it is–a major weapon of the aggressor nations... That is why we arm. Because, I repeat, this nation wants to keep war away from these two continents. Because we all of us are determined to do everything possible to maintain peace on this hemisphere. Because great strength of arms is the practical way of fulfilling our hopes for peace and for staying out of this war or any other war. Because we are determined to muster all our strength so that we may remain free.")
November 6 1940. Franklin D. Roosevelt reelected President of the United States.
December 17 1940. President Roosevelt an a press conference suggested. lending arms to Britain. ("In the present world situation, there was no doubt in the minds of an overwhelming number of Americans that the best immediate defense of the United States is the success of Great Britain in defending herself. Quite aside from our historic and current interest in the survival of democracy, therefore, it is important from the selfish viewpoint of American defense that we should do everything to help the British Empire defend itself.")
December 29 1940. President Roosevelt called for national effort to increase production of defense implements to meet threat to democracy. ("The Nazi masters of Germany have made it clear that they intend not only to dominate all life and thought in their own country, but also to enslave the whole of Europe, and then to use the resources of Europe to dominate the rest of the world... Thinking in terms of today and tomorrow, I make the direct statement to the American people that there is far less chance of the United States getting into war, if we do all we can now to support the nations defending themselves against attack by the Axis than if we acquiesce in their defeat, submit tamely to an Axis victory, and wait our turn to be the object of attack in another war later on. If we are to be completely honest with ourselves, we must admit that there is risk in any course we may take. But I deeply believe that the great majority of our people agree that the course that I advocate involves the least risk now and the greatest hope for world peace in the future. The people of Europe who are defending themselves do not ask us to do their fighting. They ask us for the implements of war, the planes the tanks, the guns, the freighters which will enable them to fight for their liberty and for our security. Emphatically we must get these weapons to them in sufficient volume and quickly enough; so that we and our children will be saved the agony and suffering of war which others have had to endure. There is no demand for sending an American Expeditionary Force outside our own borders. There is no intention by any member of your Government to send such a force. You can, therefore, nail any talk about sending armies to Europe as deliberate untruth. Our national policy is not directed toward war. Its sole purpose is to keep war away from our country and our people. We must be the great arsenal of democracy. For us this is an emergency as serious as war itself. We must apply ourselves to our task with the same resolution, the same sense of urgency, the same spirit of patriotism and sacrifice as we would show, were we at war.")
January 6 1941. President Roosevelt recommended to Congress lend lease for the Allies and enunciated the "Four Freedoms." ("I also ask this Congress for authority and for funds sufficient to manufacture additional munitions and war supplies of many kinds, to be turned over to those nations which are now in actual war with aggressor nations. Our most useful and immediate role is to act as an arsenal for them as well as for ourselves. They do not need manpower, but they do need billions of dollars worth of the weapons of defense. The time is near when they will not be able to pay for them all in ready cash. We cannot, and we will not, tell them that they must surrender, merely because of present inability to pay for the weapons which we know they must have. I do not recommend that we make them a loan of dollars with which to pay for these weapons–a loan to be repaid in dollars. I recommend that we make it possible for those nations to continue to obtain war materials in the United States, fitting their orders into our own program. Nearly all their materiel would, if the time ever came, be useful for our own defense. Taking counsel of expert military and naval authorities, considering what is best for our own security, we are free to decide how much should be kept here and how much should be sent abroad to our friends who by their determined and heroic resistance are giving us time in which to make ready our own defense. For what we send abroad, we shall be repaid within a reasonable time following the close of hostilities, in similar materials, or, at our option, in other goods of many kinds, which they can produce and which we need.")
March 11 1941. Lend Lease Act approved by President Roosevelt to extend lend lease aid to countries whose defense is vital to that of the United States.
March 15 1941. President Roosevelt promised increasing aid to Allies for a total victory. ("The light of democracy must be kept burning. To the perpetuation of this light, each must do his own share. The single effort of one individual may seem very small. But there are 130 million individuals over here. There are many more millions in Britain and elsewhere bravely shielding the great flame of democracy from the black out of barbarism. It is not enough for us merely to trim the wick or polish the glass. The time has come when we must provide the fuel in ever increasing amounts to keep the flame alight.")
May 27 1941. President Roosevelt proclaimed unlimited national emergency. ("... what started as a European war has developed, as the Nazis always intended it should develop, into a world war for world domination. Adolf Hitler never considered the domination of Europe as an end in itself. European conquest was but a step toward ultimate goals in all the other continents. It is unmistakably apparent to all of us that, unless the advance of Hitlerism is forcibly checked now, the Western Hemisphere will be within range of the Nazi weapons of destruction... The war is approaching the brink of the Western Hemisphere itself. It is coming very close to home.")
May 29 1941. The United States arranged to train British flyers. (To operate American planes sent abroad under lend lease. Times, May 30, 1941, p. 5.)
Foreign Secretary Eden said international social security was Britain's prime policy after the war. ("For irrespective of the nature of the political settlement, Continental Europe will end this war starved and bankrupt of all foods and raw materials which she was accustomed to obtain from the rest of the world. She will have no means, unaided, of breaking the vicious circle. She can export few goods until she has first received the necessary raw materials. Wasteful wartime cultivations in many lands will leave agriculture almost as weak as industry. Thus Europe will face vast problems of general demobilization with a general lack of the necessary means to put men to work.")
June 14 1941. President Roosevelt ordered Axis funds in the United States frozen. ("In view of the unlimited national emergency declared by the President, ... The Executive Order is designed, among other things, to prevent the use of the financial facilities of the United States in ways harmful to national defense and other American interests, to prevent the liquidation in the United States of assets looted by duress or conquest, and to curb subversive activities in the United States.")
June 16 1941. United States requested withdrawal of German and Italian consular staffs by July 10. ("It has come to the knowledge of this Government that agencies of the German Reich in this country, including German consular establishments, have been engaged in activities wholly outside the scope of their legitimate duties. These activities have been of an improper and unwarranted character. They render the continued presence in the United States of those agencies and consular establishments inimical to the welfare of this country.")
June 24 1941. President Roosevelt released Russian credits and promised American aid. (Policy of giving material assistance to any country fighting Germany.)
July 7 1941. The United States occupied Iceland. "In accordance with the understanding so reached, forces of the United States Navy have today arrived in Iceland in order to supplement, and eventually to replace, the British forces which have until now been stationed in Iceland in order to insure the adequate defense of that country... . [to prevent] the occupation by Germany of strategic outposts in the Atlantic to be used as air or naval bases for eventual attack against the Western Hemisphere... . Assurance that such outposts in our defense frontier remain in friendly hands is the very foundation of our national security and of the national security of every one of the independent nations of the New World... . in order to forestall any pincers movement undertaken by Germany against the Western Hemisphere... .")
July 25 1941. The United States froze Japanese assets. ("... To prevent the use of the financial facilities of the United States in trade between Japan and the United States in ways harmful to national defense and American interests, to prevent the liquidation in the United States of assets obtained by duress or conquest, and to curb subversive activities in the United States.")
August 2 1941. United States-Russian exchange of notes on economic assistance. ("... for the purpose of strengthening the Soviet Union in its struggle against armed aggression. This decision has been prompted by the conviction of the Government of the United States that the strengthening of the armed resistance of the Soviet Union to the predatory attack of an aggressor who is threatening the security and independence not only of the Soviet Union but also of all other nations is in the interest of the national defense of the United States.")
August 14 1941. Declaration by President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill (later called "Atlantic Charter"): First, their countries seek no aggrandizement, territorial or other; Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned; Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self-government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them; Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic, prosperity; Fifth, they desire to bring about the fullest collaboration between all nations in the economic field with the object of securing, for all, improved labor standards, economic advancement and social security; Sixth, after the final destruction of the Nazi tyranny, they hope to see established a peace which will afford to all nations the means of dwelling in safety within their own boundaries, and which will afford assurance that all the men in all the lands may live out their lives in freedom from fear and want; Seventh, such a peace should enable all men to traverse the high seas and oceans without hindrance; Eighth, they believe that all of the nations of the world, for realistic as well as spiritual reasons must come to the abandonment of the use of force. Since no future peace can be maintained if land, sea or air armaments continue to be employed by nations which threaten, or may threaten, aggression outside of their frontiers, they believe, pending the establishment of a wider and permanent system of general security, that the disarmament of such nations is essential. They will likewise aid and encourage all other practicable measures which will lighten for peace loving peoples the crushing burden of armaments. ("... to make known certain common principles in the national policies of their respective countries on which they base their hopes for a better future for the world.")Please think before you hit Quote!
It was the Americans who had the Japanese codes, not the British. The only people who weren't told in advance were all stationed in Pearl Harbour.
Yes Churchill and Roosevelt exchanged letters angling the US into the war. That was Roosevelt's intention as well as Churchill's.
Sheryl's quote ignores the build-up of US forces which Roosevelt had instigated from 1939 onward. Actually, other than ignoring Roosevelt's electoral promise not to take the US to war, the 1944 propaganda pamphlet Clipper offered is quite good at showing the steps along the way. I'd quite like to have that recognised, so excuse me while I flood the thread a little. I'd contend that, given the US agreement to supply the Russians, there was no need whatever for the US to deploy any troops in Europe. The only thing which caused that was Roosevelt's determination to be over here at all. Anyway - the quotes... better out in the open than stuck away in a Word file nobody can read quickly enough...November 4 1939. The United States repealed the arms embargo in favor of a cash and carry policy. Neutrality Act of 1939.
May 16 1940. President Roosevelt asked new defense appropriations. ("First, to procure the essential equipment of all kinds for a larger and thoroughly rounded out Army; Second, to replace or modernize all old Army and Navy equipment with the latest type of equipment; Third, to increase production facilities for everything needed for the Army and Navy for national defense. We require the ability to turn out quickly infinitely greater supplies; Fourth, to speed up to a 24 hour basis all existing Army and Navy contracts and all new contracts to be awarded... Our task is plain. The road we must take is clearly indicated. Our defenses must be invulnerable, our security absolute. But our defense as it was yesterday, or even as it is today, does not provide security against potential developments and dangers of the future. Defense cannot be static. Defense must grow and change from day to day. Defense must be dynamic and flexible, an expression of the vital farces of the nation and of its resolute will to meet whatever challenge the future may hold."
May 3l 1940. President Roosevelt asked Congress for "acceleration and development of our military and naval needs as measured in both machines and men." ("... the almost incredible events of the then past two weeks in the European conflict had necessitated another enlargement of our military program...")
June 10 1940. President Roosevelt promised to "extend to the opponents of force the material resources of this Nation and, at the same time, we will harness and speed up the use of those resources in order that we ourselves in the Americas may have equipment and training equal to the task of any emergency and every defense." ("... the hand that held the dagger has struck it into the back of its neighbor.")
June 13 1940. President Roosevelt promised redoubled help for France and the Allies. ("... because of our faith in and our support of the ideals for which the Allies are fighting. The magnificent resistance of the French and British armies has profoundly impressed the American people.")
June 15 1940. President Roosevelt promised France material aid. ("... so long as the French people continue in defense of their liberty which constitutes the cause of popular institutions, throughout the world, ...")
July 10 1940. President Roosevelt asked Congress for additional appropriations for defense. ("Again today, in less than 2 months' time, the changes in the world situation are so great and so profound that I must come once again to the Congress to advise concerning new threats, new needs, and the imperative necessity of meeting them... In broad outline our immediate objectives are as follows: First. To carry forward the naval expansion program designed to build up the Navy to meet any possible combination of hostile naval forces. Second. To complete the total equipment for a land force of approximately 1,200,000 men, though of course this total of men would not be in the Army in time of peace. Third. To procure reserve stocks of tanks, guns, artillery, ammunition, etc., for another 800,000 men or a total of 2,000,000 men if a mobilization of such a force should become necessary. Fourth. To provide for manufacturing facilities, public and private, necessary to produce critical items of equipment for a land force of 2,000,000 men, and to produce the ordnance items required for the aircraft program of the Army and Navy guns, bombs, armor, bombsights and ammunition. Fifth. Procurement of 15,000 additional planes for the Army and 4,000 for the Navy, complete with necessary spare engines, armaments, and the most modern equipment.")
August 20 1940. Prime Minister Churchill declared willingness to lease bases to the United States. ("... anxiety was also felt in the United States about the air and naval defense of their Atlantic seaboard, and President Roosevelt has recently made it clear that he would like to discuss with us, and with the Dominion of Canada and with Newfoundland, the development of American naval and air facilities in Newfoundland and in the West Indies... . His Majesty's Government are entirely willing, to accord defence facilities to the United States ... and we feel sure that our interests, no less than theirs ... will be served thereby.")
October 12 1940. President Roosevelt said America aimed to defend the Western Hemisphere. ("We of the Americas still consider that this defense of these oceans of the Western Hemisphere against acts of aggression is the first factor in the defense and protection of our own territorial integrity. We reaffirm that policy, lest there be any doubt of our intention to maintain it... We are building a total defense on land and sea and in the air, sufficient to repel total attack from any part. of the world... The core of our defense is the faith we have in the institutions we defend. The Americas will not be scared or threatened into the ways the dictators want us to follow... The people of the United States, the people of all the Americas, reject the doctrine of appeasement. They recognize it for what it is–a major weapon of the aggressor nations... That is why we arm. Because, I repeat, this nation wants to keep war away from these two continents. Because we all of us are determined to do everything possible to maintain peace on this hemisphere. Because great strength of arms is the practical way of fulfilling our hopes for peace and for staying out of this war or any other war. Because we are determined to muster all our strength so that we may remain free.")
November 6 1940. Franklin D. Roosevelt reelected President of the United States.
December 17 1940. President Roosevelt an a press conference suggested. lending arms to Britain. ("In the present world situation, there was no doubt in the minds of an overwhelming number of Americans that the best immediate defense of the United States is the success of Great Britain in defending herself. Quite aside from our historic and current interest in the survival of democracy, therefore, it is important from the selfish viewpoint of American defense that we should do everything to help the British Empire defend itself.")
December 29 1940. President Roosevelt called for national effort to increase production of defense implements to meet threat to democracy. ("The Nazi masters of Germany have made it clear that they intend not only to dominate all life and thought in their own country, but also to enslave the whole of Europe, and then to use the resources of Europe to dominate the rest of the world... Thinking in terms of today and tomorrow, I make the direct statement to the American people that there is far less chance of the United States getting into war, if we do all we can now to support the nations defending themselves against attack by the Axis than if we acquiesce in their defeat, submit tamely to an Axis victory, and wait our turn to be the object of attack in another war later on. If we are to be completely honest with ourselves, we must admit that there is risk in any course we may take. But I deeply believe that the great majority of our people agree that the course that I advocate involves the least risk now and the greatest hope for world peace in the future. The people of Europe who are defending themselves do not ask us to do their fighting. They ask us for the implements of war, the planes the tanks, the guns, the freighters which will enable them to fight for their liberty and for our security. Emphatically we must get these weapons to them in sufficient volume and quickly enough; so that we and our children will be saved the agony and suffering of war which others have had to endure. There is no demand for sending an American Expeditionary Force outside our own borders. There is no intention by any member of your Government to send such a force. You can, therefore, nail any talk about sending armies to Europe as deliberate untruth. Our national policy is not directed toward war. Its sole purpose is to keep war away from our country and our people. We must be the great arsenal of democracy. For us this is an emergency as serious as war itself. We must apply ourselves to our task with the same resolution, the same sense of urgency, the same spirit of patriotism and sacrifice as we would show, were we at war.")
January 6 1941. President Roosevelt recommended to Congress lend lease for the Allies and enunciated the "Four Freedoms." ("I also ask this Congress for authority and for funds sufficient to manufacture additional munitions and war supplies of many kinds, to be turned over to those nations which are now in actual war with aggressor nations. Our most useful and immediate role is to act as an arsenal for them as well as for ourselves. They do not need manpower, but they do need billions of dollars worth of the weapons of defense. The time is near when they will not be able to pay for them all in ready cash. We cannot, and we will not, tell them that they must surrender, merely because of present inability to pay for the weapons which we know they must have. I do not recommend that we make them a loan of dollars with which to pay for these weapons–a loan to be repaid in dollars. I recommend that we make it possible for those nations to continue to obtain war materials in the United States, fitting their orders into our own program. Nearly all their materiel would, if the time ever came, be useful for our own defense. Taking counsel of expert military and naval authorities, considering what is best for our own security, we are free to decide how much should be kept here and how much should be sent abroad to our friends who by their determined and heroic resistance are giving us time in which to make ready our own defense. For what we send abroad, we shall be repaid within a reasonable time following the close of hostilities, in similar materials, or, at our option, in other goods of many kinds, which they can produce and which we need.")
March 11 1941. Lend Lease Act approved by President Roosevelt to extend lend lease aid to countries whose defense is vital to that of the United States.
March 15 1941. President Roosevelt promised increasing aid to Allies for a total victory. ("The light of democracy must be kept burning. To the perpetuation of this light, each must do his own share. The single effort of one individual may seem very small. But there are 130 million individuals over here. There are many more millions in Britain and elsewhere bravely shielding the great flame of democracy from the black out of barbarism. It is not enough for us merely to trim the wick or polish the glass. The time has come when we must provide the fuel in ever increasing amounts to keep the flame alight.")
May 27 1941. President Roosevelt proclaimed unlimited national emergency. ("... what started as a European war has developed, as the Nazis always intended it should develop, into a world war for world domination. Adolf Hitler never considered the domination of Europe as an end in itself. European conquest was but a step toward ultimate goals in all the other continents. It is unmistakably apparent to all of us that, unless the advance of Hitlerism is forcibly checked now, the Western Hemisphere will be within range of the Nazi weapons of destruction... The war is approaching the brink of the Western Hemisphere itself. It is coming very close to home.")
May 29 1941. The United States arranged to train British flyers. (To operate American planes sent abroad under lend lease. Times, May 30, 1941, p. 5.)
Foreign Secretary Eden said international social security was Britain's prime policy after the war. ("For irrespective of the nature of the political settlement, Continental Europe will end this war starved and bankrupt of all foods and raw materials which she was accustomed to obtain from the rest of the world. She will have no means, unaided, of breaking the vicious circle. She can export few goods until she has first received the necessary raw materials. Wasteful wartime cultivations in many lands will leave agriculture almost as weak as industry. Thus Europe will face vast problems of general demobilization with a general lack of the necessary means to put men to work.")
June 14 1941. President Roosevelt ordered Axis funds in the United States frozen. ("In view of the unlimited national emergency declared by the President, ... The Executive Order is designed, among other things, to prevent the use of the financial facilities of the United States in ways harmful to national defense and other American interests, to prevent the liquidation in the United States of assets looted by duress or conquest, and to curb subversive activities in the United States.")
June 16 1941. United States requested withdrawal of German and Italian consular staffs by July 10. ("It has come to the knowledge of this Government that agencies of the German Reich in this country, including German consular establishments, have been engaged in activities wholly outside the scope of their legitimate duties. These activities have been of an improper and unwarranted character. They render the continued presence in the United States of those agencies and consular establishments inimical to the welfare of this country.")
June 24 1941. President Roosevelt released Russian credits and promised American aid. (Policy of giving material assistance to any country fighting Germany.)
July 7 1941. The United States occupied Iceland. "In accordance with the understanding so reached, forces of the United States Navy have today arrived in Iceland in order to supplement, and eventually to replace, the British forces which have until now been stationed in Iceland in order to insure the adequate defense of that country... . [to prevent] the occupation by Germany of strategic outposts in the Atlantic to be used as air or naval bases for eventual attack against the Western Hemisphere... . Assurance that such outposts in our defense frontier remain in friendly hands is the very foundation of our national security and of the national security of every one of the independent nations of the New World... . in order to forestall any pincers movement undertaken by Germany against the Western Hemisphere... .")
July 25 1941. The United States froze Japanese assets. ("... To prevent the use of the financial facilities of the United States in trade between Japan and the United States in ways harmful to national defense and American interests, to prevent the liquidation in the United States of assets obtained by duress or conquest, and to curb subversive activities in the United States.")
August 2 1941. United States-Russian exchange of notes on economic assistance. ("... for the purpose of strengthening the Soviet Union in its struggle against armed aggression. This decision has been prompted by the conviction of the Government of the United States that the strengthening of the armed resistance of the Soviet Union to the predatory attack of an aggressor who is threatening the security and independence not only of the Soviet Union but also of all other nations is in the interest of the national defense of the United States.")
August 14 1941. Declaration by President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill (later called "Atlantic Charter"): First, their countries seek no aggrandizement, territorial or other; Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned; Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self-government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them; Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic, prosperity; Fifth, they desire to bring about the fullest collaboration between all nations in the economic field with the object of securing, for all, improved labor standards, economic advancement and social security; Sixth, after the final destruction of the Nazi tyranny, they hope to see established a peace which will afford to all nations the means of dwelling in safety within their own boundaries, and which will afford assurance that all the men in all the lands may live out their lives in freedom from fear and want; Seventh, such a peace should enable all men to traverse the high seas and oceans without hindrance; Eighth, they believe that all of the nations of the world, for realistic as well as spiritual reasons must come to the abandonment of the use of force. Since no future peace can be maintained if land, sea or air armaments continue to be employed by nations which threaten, or may threaten, aggression outside of their frontiers, they believe, pending the establishment of a wider and permanent system of general security, that the disarmament of such nations is essential. They will likewise aid and encourage all other practicable measures which will lighten for peace loving peoples the crushing burden of armaments. ("... to make known certain common principles in the national policies of their respective countries on which they base their hopes for a better future for the world.")Please think before you hit Quote!
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Cause of WWII - A Question
If anyone wants a more biased dissection of FDR's position on whether to go to war or not between 1939 and 1941, they could read through http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:ej ... en&strip=1 - it's pretty good. Not essential, Clipper, just background and I'm not relying on it in the slightest since you'll assume it's all lefty lies.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Cause of WWII - A Question
Yeah. What Spot said.
I can't possibly hope to emulate Spot's research skill on the internet. But I googled "Winston Churchill Pearl Harbour" and read the first page of search results. The overwhelming view was that if anyone actually knew in advance about the attack on Pearl Harbour, it was FDR. It certainly seems to have suited his very apparent desire to bring the US into the war.
Sloppy research, of course, which will probably be shot down in flames.
But what the hell. Probably it will never be truly known who knew what. In the meantime, let those conspiracy theories roll.
I can't possibly hope to emulate Spot's research skill on the internet. But I googled "Winston Churchill Pearl Harbour" and read the first page of search results. The overwhelming view was that if anyone actually knew in advance about the attack on Pearl Harbour, it was FDR. It certainly seems to have suited his very apparent desire to bring the US into the war.
Sloppy research, of course, which will probably be shot down in flames.
But what the hell. Probably it will never be truly known who knew what. In the meantime, let those conspiracy theories roll.
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper, I think the original question as posted in the title was the original causes of WWII, which involves issues that predate Churchill or Roosevelt's terms as respective heads of their countries in WWII. Also WWII did not "start" (in terms of open military conflict between the great European powers) in December 1941, but in September 1939, 25 months earlier, so this debate is academic in terms of actually being meaningful, as opposed to a meandering rant about why you are not appreciated enough by the brits. I would say to you Clipper that this smug attitude you seem to have about "saving Britain's ass" (yes how colourful) in WWII, is somewhat laughable to anyone who understands how the world actually is. I would remind you that the U.S.'s actions in WWII were always and ever about U.S. interests and no one elses, (and thats the way it should be unless your leaders are fools) so don't kid yourself about that and don't expect complete sycophancy because of a just war that both countries fought together in WWII in which your nation gained supremacy over most of the world, (so it turned out quite well for the U.S. really, all things considered).
Also given the contribution that the British Army, Navy, and Airforce have given to the U.S.'s latest wacky foreign adventure, (including their lives) you (as a solider) should perhaps turn the high moral tone down a little, as it gets wearying after a while, and detracts from the genuine appreciation that people have for America's good actions in Europe in WWII.
Also given the contribution that the British Army, Navy, and Airforce have given to the U.S.'s latest wacky foreign adventure, (including their lives) you (as a solider) should perhaps turn the high moral tone down a little, as it gets wearying after a while, and detracts from the genuine appreciation that people have for America's good actions in Europe in WWII.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;548026 wrote: You are completely correct and I retract all previous statements regarding this topic.
rotflmao:wah: :p
rotflmao:wah: :p
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;548041 wrote: Trolling again? This sums up your character very nicely I believe:
well that beats all.
RhondaLu's Friends (0)
RhondaLu does not currently have any friends.
Nope, but you are.
How old are you? You sound like a little girl.
well that beats all.
RhondaLu's Friends (0)
RhondaLu does not currently have any friends.
Nope, but you are.
How old are you? You sound like a little girl.
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;548049 wrote: I won't waste many more words or effort for a piece of leftist trash such as you are. Eventually Admin will get around to planting a boot up your liberal ass and the Forum Garden will be that much better off.
For what, being an American with views that are not like yours. I thought you fought for my "right" tooooo party Clipper.
;)
For what, being an American with views that are not like yours. I thought you fought for my "right" tooooo party Clipper.
;)
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;548054 wrote: Yes I fought for your rights....as despicable as you are as a human being.Troll come and trolls go.....LOL!
BTW: It was a pleasure nailing your leftist hide to the wall so often! LMAO!!!
You are really big with those labels! I'm sure the majority see you for the bigot you really are.
BTW: It was a pleasure nailing your leftist hide to the wall so often! LMAO!!!
You are really big with those labels! I'm sure the majority see you for the bigot you really are.
Cause of WWII - A Question
Clipper;548026 wrote: You are completely correct and I retract all previous statements regarding this topic.
Thats decent of you to admit Clipper, and courteous, so fair enough as far as I am concerned anyway. I am sorry this thread has also descended into a spat about domestic US politics from another thread entirely, thats none of my concern really, or at least I have no inclination to get involved in something I don't fully understand on a personal level, so I will make no comment.
Thats decent of you to admit Clipper, and courteous, so fair enough as far as I am concerned anyway. I am sorry this thread has also descended into a spat about domestic US politics from another thread entirely, thats none of my concern really, or at least I have no inclination to get involved in something I don't fully understand on a personal level, so I will make no comment.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.