Who had the greatest Empire?

Hawke
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Who had the greatest Empire?

Post by Hawke »

Considering all of the great Empires of history; which do you feel was the most enlightened, most free, most powerful?

All empires are up for consideration: from Assyria to Great Britain.
gmc
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Who had the greatest Empire?

Post by gmc »

kind of depends where you were on the empire hierarchy does it not? Might make more sense to phrase it which has had the most influence down the years. In terms of western europe the greeks and romans have to be up there-could you call the greeks an empire? I don't think you can really nominate one over the others as all have links one way or the other with the past. Personally my knowledge of ancient chinese history is lacking more than a little.
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Tombstone
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Post by Tombstone »

Fyrehawke wrote: Considering all of the great Empires of history; which do you feel was the most enlightened, most free, most powerful?

All empires are up for consideration: from Assyria to Great Britain.
Genghis Khan and the Mongols.

Genghis and his successors expanded the Mongol lands to create an empire that stretched from Hungary to China. This empire was the largest land empire in human history, four times the area conquered by Alexander the Great. Amazing.
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Tombstone
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Post by Tombstone »

ADH wrote: Britain in terms of having had an Empire which included part of all 5 continents, although the Romans arguably had greater long-lasting influence. Or you could make an argument for Spain and Portugal for being the first European countries to "expand" into the "New World", or Austria-Hungary or Imperial Russia or even the Ottoman Empire in terms of influence on world history. I think probably the British Empire for being so wide-reaching, and making English such a widely-spoken language.
Hmmmm...so many to choose from!

The Romans sure had a huge influence on so many cultures.
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Lon
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Post by Lon »

My vote would be the "Roman Empire", primarily due to the lasting impact they have had on the world today. No other Empire in my view has left such a mark on Western Civilization. Laws, government etc.
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Post by kensloft »

Although the Khans had conquered more than any other civilization they left little in the way of written records. Unless you consider the accounts of the people that tried to fend them off as their legacy, there is little that they left, as an imprint, other that art.

The Romans, on the other hand, had an influence that ranged the world as far as India. Theirs was not only the subjugation of the lands. Their influence on Europe gives rise to the Romance languages. Spanish. French. Portuguese, Italian. Romanian. All these languages have their basis in the Roman Influence.

The Greek influence, however, gives us our groundings in the written, recorded history. Herodatus is considered to be father of written History. His writings, by some, is thought to be an encyclopaedia of the world as it was then known to men,

He dedicated his book so that peole in the future could see what the world then looked and thought like. The future would see what was wrong and what was right in his writings. The Greeks open the vista to all the different sciences that we study today. from archaeology to anthropology to the arts. Its influence even helped the Romans when they took over the Greek pantheon of gods and made it their own.

Now the British Empire, for its part, after the ascension of Elizabeth the first evolved into the Empire that expanded throughout the years into the 20th century. It's influence was throughout the entire globe.

Just as the British acquired everything from every land, so too did the American Empire. It was an Empire that was built on the ideas of the world that give us the technological marvel that we see today. The technological marvel that leads us into the 21st century is really a compendium of the history of human knowledge.

There is a difference between knowing how to use these creations of men and having been the men that created these marvels. Sometimes the users think like they are the creators and when you take the ideas of others and claim for them to be your own, then you get into trouble with the rest of the world that understands that it was their bits and pieces that made the technological marvel in the first place.

Personally, I don't think that the greatest Empire has come into existence yet. When it does, it will probably be the World Empire consisting of all the peoples of the world.
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Raven
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Post by Raven »

Empire. From the Babylonian to the Holy Roman, it seems to have remained the same, just changed capitols. Consider the United States. It has the same type government, laws and symbols as the Roman Empire. The Eagle of Rome. Pax Romana. Thats what the US is currently doing in the world today. Enforcing the peace of rome. They have a 'Ceasar' which they really dont elect. They have a senate that IS elected from the people, by the people. Have you ever seen an american football game? They have coliseums from one end of the continent to the other. Amphitheaters galore! They used to have slaves aplenty.

My point is, that it seems it's just a continuation of an empire that has gone on before it. Lets not forget it was british before it was american.

So the conclusion that the roman empire has to be the greatest, in my view, must be the right one, because it still exists. Who said it ever fell in the first place?
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capt_buzzard
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Who had the greatest Empire?

Post by capt_buzzard »

There is only One.
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Raven
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Post by Raven »

Tis true, highlander.
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Post by BabyRider »

LT flora wrote: The Uinited States
Hey there, LT...

I've been following your posting spree, and wondered if maybe you'd like to expound on something. Anything. One sentence responses are a bit vague, and I personally would like to know something about your views...What do you say? And by the way...Welcome to FG!
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kensloft
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Who had the greatest Empire?

Post by kensloft »

LT flora wrote: The Uinited States


Like how you said the United States had the greatest Empire.

:-6
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Who had the greatest Empire?

Post by Bothwell »

The British - On which the sun never set
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Post by kensloft »

Bothwell wrote: The British - On which the sun never set


Bothwell read the question. "Who had the greatest empire.

It is not semantics. No offence but under your description it is not a had! On which the sun never set. Makes it not a had

If you and the US and Russia and China want to duke it out for who has the greatest empire, then be my guest. Love everybody's patriotism but patriotism and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

Actually it was Canada. :yh_rotfl
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Post by lady cop »

Bothwell wrote: The British - On which the sun never set
yes, 'had' is the operative word...and England HAD the greatest empire...on which the sun never set, Bothwell's right....but now all England has is pitcairn island, and they aren't so sure who has authority over them! :D :yh_rotfl (sorry, couldn't resist!) :yh_kiss (seems we were one of your colonies once :wah: )
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Post by kensloft »

lady cop wrote: (seems we were one of your colonies once :wah: )


I don't believe that you think America should revert back to Britain do you? The smiley that you are using is not "laughing smiley" but "wah smiley" There is only one thing that can be inferred by the word "wah" and that is that there is crying. Kept blowing my mind that something that looked so happy was actually named wah. Go figure?
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Post by lady cop »

kensloft wrote:


I don't believe that you think America should revert back to Britain do you? The smiley that you are using is not "laughing smiley" but "wah smiley" There is only one thing that can be inferred by the word "wah" and that is that there is crying. Kept blowing my mind that something that looked so happy was actually named wah. Go figure?
:-2 Kenslloft, we just need more smilies! i interpreted said smiley to indicate laughter, i suppose it is all subjective. no, we shouldn't be handed back to the crown! but i like to remind Bothwell about the Boston tea party and other such events, it's fun! i, in reality, love England and the UK! but it's fun to wind up Bothwell. :D
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Who had the greatest Empire?

Post by capt_buzzard »

I have to say the Roman Empire :guitarist
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Post by kensloft »

lady cop wrote:

:-2 Kenslloft, we just need more smilies! i interpreted said smiley to indicate laughter, i suppose it is all subjective. no, we shouldn't be handed back to the crown! but i like to remind Bothwell about the Boston tea party and other such events, it's fun! i, in reality, love England and the UK! but it's fun to wind up Bothwell. :D


Should we organize a groundswell of support for more smileys or should we just put it to Anastrophe. :yh_rotfl :yh_party
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Post by capt_buzzard »

kensloft wrote: Should we organize a groundswell of support for more smileys or should we just put it to Anastrophe. :yh_rotfl :yh_partyThat's the Cops for you.
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Post by Raven »

I think the roman was just a result of the greek breaking up into 4 bits after alexander died. Continuum of the first. I dont think the Roman is quite done yet.

The English, was just an extension of the roman, as is america. The capitol just kept shifting west.

Actually, I think the greek empire was the greatest, in that it had the most influence of a lasting nature.
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Post by kensloft »

Raven wrote: I think the roman was just a result of the greek breaking up into 4 bits after alexander died. Continuum of the first. I dont think the Roman is quite done yet.

The English, was just an extension of the roman, as is america. The capitol just kept shifting west.

Actually, I think the greek empire was the greatest, in that it had the most influence of a lasting nature.


I concur with you.

Herodatus, my favourite historian, said it all when he devoted his book so that man could see what is true and right in his writngs and what is falsely held as truth being resolved.

Any book that you may read on any subject may have had its first steps as a result of Herodatus' obsevations and pennings.

Herodatus, the first historian of written history, gives and gives and gives and gives to help us to move ahead in life brought on by society's accomplishments inspired by the likes of the Greek culture. The Romans may have changed the alphabet but they kept its purpose alive. Spreading knowledge. Knowledge with which even the American and British Empires have utilized to no end for our benefit..
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Post by capt_buzzard »

kensloft wrote: I concur with you.



Herodatus, my favourite historian, said it all when he devoted his book so that man could see what is true and right in his writngs and what is falsely held as truth being resolved.



Any book that you may read on any subject may have had its first steps as a result of Herodatus' obsevations and pennings.



Herodatus, the first historian of written history, gives and gives and gives and gives to help us to move ahead in life brought on by society's accomplishments inspired by the likes of the Greek culture. The Romans may have changed the alphabet but they kept its purpose alive. Spreading knowledge. Knowledge with which even the American and British Empires have utilized to no end for our benefit..And don't forget the return of The Roman Empire via EU
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Post by kensloft »

capt_buzzard wrote: And don't forget the return of The Roman Empire via EU


In your dreams. It's coming to North America because you guys had your chance and now it is all ours. Ours I tell you. OURS!!!!!!!
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Post by capt_buzzard »

No way. America I love everything about it, their culture and history ect. But its no way heading the Empire way. The US and Canada, I hate to say is in for a ruff time after 2007. I was very Anti EU from the start, and I am still anti EU, but its heading in the right direction for a European Roman Empire. www.europarl.eu.int
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Post by kensloft »

capt_buzzard wrote: No way. America I love everything about it, their culture and history ect. But its no way heading the Empire way. The US and Canada, I hate to say is in for a ruff time after 2007. I was very Anti EU from the start, and I am still anti EU, but its heading in the right direction for a European Roman Empire. www.europarl.eu.int


Never. It's coming to North America. The letter "R" is the beginning of the word Roman. We've got 2 "R's" in North America as opposed to your paltry one in European Union therefore it is ours I tell you Ours!
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Post by capt_buzzard »

His Unholyness JP 11 asked Europeans in the EU parliament in 1998 to look to their roots, It was broadcast live throughout EU member states. He was refering to the 'Holy Roman Empire'.
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Post by kensloft »

capt_buzzard wrote: His Unholyness JP 11 asked Europeans in the EU parliament in 1998 to look to their roots, It was broadcast live throughout EU member states. He was refering to the 'Holy Roman Empire'.


Prognosticating aside? Now you think the pope is going to come to your rescue? He wouldn't know a fact from fiction if it smacked it in the head. North America rools!
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Raven
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Post by Raven »

kensloft wrote: I concur with you.

Herodatus, my favourite historian, said it all when he devoted his book so that man could see what is true and right in his writngs and what is falsely held as truth being resolved.

Any book that you may read on any subject may have had its first steps as a result of Herodatus' obsevations and pennings.

Herodatus, the first historian of written history, gives and gives and gives and gives to help us to move ahead in life brought on by society's accomplishments inspired by the likes of the Greek culture. The Romans may have changed the alphabet but they kept its purpose alive. Spreading knowledge. Knowledge with which even the American and British Empires have utilized to no end for our benefit..


He also told us about Atlantis......one of my favorite subjects! Have you ever read Pliny? or Josephus?
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Post by kensloft »

Raven wrote: He also told us about Atlantis......one of my favorite subjects! Have you ever read Pliny? or Josephus?


Not really all that much... aka very little. Haven't had them cross my path yet, other than exerpts and pieces in other contexts. Leiden huh?
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Post by Raven »

kensloft wrote: Not really all that much... aka very little. Haven't had them cross my path yet, other than exerpts and pieces in other contexts. Leiden huh?


I also quite enjoy the Anglo-Saxon chronicles! Actually, I find them fun to read.

Bizarre, but fun!
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Post by kensloft »

Enuf wrote: before it. Lets not forget it was british before it was american.

So the conclusion that the roman empire has to be the greatest, in my view, must be the right one, because it still exists. Who said it ever fell in the first place?


Other than history, the only people that would say that it fell would be the Romans themselves. Constantine realized in 300-350 ad that the empire didn't have the military might to force there views any longer in a physical sense, with the same prudence of the past, at the time. So the switch of sort took place, instead of controling the body control the minds. Because the body will follow the mind. When the council of Nacia was formed and the formation of the Roman Church was brought into existance, the new reformed Christianity was brought into existance. . With Christianity still here we still see the influences of the Roman Empire. Witch could be used as an argument that the empire still exists, because of the ideolagical switch that the Roman empire made so long ago.
To extrapolate on your conjecture you should bear in mind that the Holy Romans' influences abated during the times of Elizabethan England from whence it was replaced by the British Empire. One could say that the God that was England's charm supplanted the Holy Romans by destroying the Armada.

The Christians are far outnumbered by other Empires today.
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Post by Bothwell »

On a slightly skewed note here. The greatest empire ever was sadly that of the Daleks. They managed to mutate and push themselves from the planet Skaro, all the way to the outer reaches of the universe. Amazing acheivement when they can't even climb a flight of stairs!!


Slightly Skewed????

Doc they are not real, honestly they were made by the BBC props department, I saw some a few months ago using the lower floor of the millenium stadium for shooting some scenes and there is not an alien inside, sorry
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Post by alobar51 »

Raven wrote: I think the roman was just a result of the greek breaking up into 4 bits after alexander died. Continuum of the first. I dont think the Roman is quite done yet.

The English, was just an extension of the roman, as is america. The capitol just kept shifting west.

Actually, I think the greek empire was the greatest, in that it had the most influence of a lasting nature.


This is a great question.

I don't have any answers, just more ?'s.

Looking at all of these empires, is there a common thread that gave them the means for their success, and another common thread that caused their demise?

Recognizing this would be potentially instructive for the current world power.

Gaining power and holding power require two, vastly different, skill sets.

David Hawkins, in his book, Power vs. Force, states that the underlying ideas framing one's values, individually or collectively, will determine the success or failure of that person/group. He highlights Ghandi's resisitance in India. A meek little man, armed only with an idea, was able to bring about the demise of British colonialism.

If the Muslim fundamentalists could shelve their anger and recognize this, I suspect they could easily unseat American colonial interests on their land. They certainly have the numbers on their side.

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