Most Heinous Historical Event?

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RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

This may be a little odd of a subject, but sometimes I find myself thinking about atrocities committed by humans against other humans in history and trying to decide which one was worst. I'm not familiar with all the bad things that people have done to each other but the three big ones I always consider are:



The Holocaust

Black Slavery

White Treatment of Indians



:(



If I had to choose their order according to their evil atrociousness, I would put them up just as I have here.



I am wondering what anyone else would consider the worst event or period in the world's history and why you might think so?
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Lulu2
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Post by Lulu2 »

DARFUR should rank up there!
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Sheryl
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Post by Sheryl »

That's what I was thinking Lulu.
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Patsy Warnick
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Naturally the order will change according to how one was affected.

911

Homicide of my nephew

John F. Kennedy assasination

My list could go on and on.

Patsy
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Post by Galbally »

RedGlitter wrote: This may be a little odd of a subject, but sometimes I find myself thinking about atrocities committed by humans against other humans in history and trying to decide which one was worst. I'm not familiar with all the bad things that people have done to each other but the three big ones I always consider are:



The Holocaust

Black Slavery

White Treatment of Indians



:(



If I had to choose their order according to their evil atrociousness, I would put them up just as I have here.



I am wondering what anyone else would consider the worst event or period in the world's history and why you might think so?


I dunno the 3 you state are all pretty horrid examples but there are a lot more, the fate of the Armenian turks, Rwanda, the Russian Famine of the 1930s, stalingrad, the Irish Famine, the great leap forward in China, the Spanish destruction of the aztecs, incas, and assorted helpless natives, the entire history of poland, the terror during the French revolution, the Algerian civil war and war against France in the 1960's, the treatment of Aboriginal australians, Tibet 1950-present, Bosnia (1993-96), the battles of Verdun, Paschendale, the Somme (1914-1918), the use of the atomic bomb against the japanese, the japanese invasion of China, the civil war in India (1948), the highland clearances in Scotland, the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders (particularly horrible), stalins deportation of the entire population of Chenyna to Siberia in the 1950s, the Roman destruction of Carthage, Gaul, Spain, and of course the "uses" that the colussem in Rome was put to, the black death in Europe, it goes on an on, the main point is that history is full of these things and our age is no different unfortunatly. :(
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Sheryl
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Post by Sheryl »

I think that wherever you turn in history you'll find cases of humans being cruel to other humans.
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Post by zinkyusa »

1. Stalins Purges

2. Holocaust

3. Kymer Rouger murders of Cambodians

4. Turkish murders of Armenians
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Marie5656
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Post by Marie5656 »

Patsy Warnick wrote: Naturally the order will change according to how one was affected.

911

Homicide of my nephew

John F. Kennedy assasination

My list could go on and on.

Patsy


That is correct..I think it depends on how one as an individual, or ones country was affected.

I mean, the Holocost and Slavery affected us all..even if we were not personally touched by it.

Ihe invasion of Pearl Harbor...may be considered most heinous by Americans than other countries...as it was a US base which was attacked. Even though the event eventually affected the whole world.

All the school shootings in this country are awfull, too. I wonder..are the school shootings just native to our country..or have others experienced these also??

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Galbally
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Post by Galbally »

Marie5656 wrote: That is correct..I think it depends on how one as an individual, or ones country was affected.

I mean, the Holocost and Slavery affected us all..even if we were not personally touched by it.

Ihe invasion of Pearl Harbor...may be considered most heinous by Americans than other countries...as it was a US base which was attacked. Even though the event eventually affected the whole world.

All the school shootings in this country are awfull, too. I wonder..are the school shootings just native to our country..or have others experienced these also??




I don't know about the rest of the world but school shooting are fairly rare in Europe, though they do happen, there was a particarly horrible one in an infant school in Scotland in 1996, it was particaulry appalling, I think something like 17 or 18 very young children were shot by a mentally deranged deviant guy, fortunatly for everyone he also shot himself.
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Marie5656
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Post by Marie5656 »

Galbally wrote: I don't know about the rest of the world but school shooting are fairly rare in Europe, though they do happen, there was a particarly horrible one in an infant school in Scotland in 1996, it was particaulry appalling, I think something like 17 or 18 very young children were shot by a mentally deranged deviant guy, fortunatly for everyone he also shot himself.


Sounds vaguely familiar...I think the story was covered here.
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Post by minks »

Rawanda

Somalia

Sudan

and all the horrific crimes against fellow humans.
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Post by woppy71 »

We must learn from the events of the past or we will be condemned to re-live them.
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Post by minks »

woppy71 wrote: We must learn from the events of the past or we will be condemned to re-live them.


do you think we are learning from them? Sure doesn't seem like it does it... :(
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Post by Galbally »

History may not repeat itself, but it sure as well follows very similar themes through the ages, I guess thats becuase the one thing that remains the same throughout history is people, situations and circumstance seem to change, but human beings remain pretty much like they were as far back as anyone can remember. Oh well, there are lots of good things in there too, thats the nature of it I guess.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Certainly Pol Pot and the Kahmyr Rouge has to be up there - forcing 8 and 10 year old children to kill babies as an initiation rite is evil incarnate and the killing of over 1/3 of the countries population is unprecedented.

The Cambodian's acceptance of those children back into their lives must be at the other end of the scale.

The Inquisition and the witchhunts in Europe must be thereabouts as well

and I'd guess the third would be the Russian Civil War where both sides massacered the people in the lands they took as having helped their opponents - it is said that 30 million Russians died in the 5 years of fighting, and this on top of the Russian deaths in the First World War.

The trouble is that there are so many attrocities to chose from - each worse than the last.
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Post by valerie »

They are all horrific...



But for one "human" doing things to other humans...



Vlad The Impaler.



:(
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

valerie wrote: They are all horrific...



But for one "human" doing things to other humans...



Vlad The Impaler.



:(


Have you read the handbook for Inquisitors extracting confessions from heretics detailing the approved techniques to be used.

Remembering that these were men of God it runs Vlad very, very close.
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Post by spot »

I'm not sure how far "heinous" can be stretched toward cause rather than effect, but I'll have a try at it.

1. Britain's adoption of the Anglo-French Entente Cordiale, signed on 8th April 1904.

Until this switch in alliances, the British and the Germans had been on the same side in every European battle in which both had been engaged and similarly the British and French had been had been on the opposite side in every European battle in which both had been engaged, for as long back as Britain, France and Germany had existed. The reversal entrapped Germany between two western powers and Russia. The contemporary cartoon at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Germ ... France.gif is the nearest I can give to support for this view.

Germany in consequence began a massive program of armament, which both Britain and France copied in parallel. Without the Entente Cordiale there would have been no Great War in 1914. Hitler, in his autobiography "Mein Kampf", makes it quite clear (and is entirely credible) that his anger at Germany being tricked into surrendering in 1918 was the trigger which led him into politics and to hate what he called the International Financiers (whom he identified as overwhelmingly Jewish) for both bringing about Germany's downfall and imposing exemplary fiscal punishment on what he considered an unfairly defeated nation. On that basis, both World War Two and the Holocaust were a direct consequence of the Anglo-French alliance of 1904, as was the fall of the Romanov dynasty to the Soviets in Russia.

2. Britain's colonization of Africa.

This one ought to stand as obvious, really. The canting hypocracy of enlightening the benighted heathen savage with Christian virtue and kindness, fed from beneath by a rapine theft of natural resources, has left the continent utterly wrecked and with few signs of recovery. Without Britain's lead there would have been no European rush to grab the leftover bits on the part of either France, Germany or Belgium. The current state of the Congo, for example, is enough to sicken anyone when the potential for self-governed development from the start is considered as an alternative. The entire country was the personal property of the King of the Belgians until well into living memory and he left it an uneducated cesspit when he was forced to relinquish control by the United Nations.

3. Britain's escalation of the slave trade in the eighteenth century.

I've written of this elsewhere and it seems superfluous to expand on the heading. Transatlantic slave-trading was a sideline of the Portuguese Empire until Britain entered the market and increased the numbers involved by a factor of ten to feed the southern British Colonies in America and the West Indies. The consequences of that step are still reverberating.
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

The things we do to eachother................

:-1













































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RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

Yucck.

Yeah..... :(





I want to say that I am learning a lot from this thread. I see several things mentioned here that I am not schooled in. So I have some looking up to do....
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Post by koan »

Nomad wrote: The things we do to eachother................
I read a book recently called Regarding the Pain of Others by Susan Sontag

It was all about why photographs have lost their effect upon society.

One of the distinguishing features of modern life is that it supplies countless opportunities for regarding (at a distance, through the medium of photography) horrors taking place throughout the world. Images of atrocities have become, via the little screens of the television and the computer, something of a commonplace. But are viewers inured -- or incited -- to violence by the depiction of cruelty? Is the viewer's perception of reality eroded by the daily barrage of such images? What does it mean to care about the sufferings of people in faraway zones of conflict?

As a makeup artist my first reaction to those photos was "I've made people look worse than that." Sad but true.
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Post by RedGlitter »

koan wrote: I read a book recently called Regarding the Pain of Others by Susan Sontag





It was all about why photographs have lost their effect upon society.One of the distinguishing features of modern life is that it supplies countless opportunities for regarding (at a distance, through the medium of photography) horrors taking place throughout the world. Images of atrocities have become, via the little screens of the television and the computer, something of a commonplace. But are viewers inured -- or incited -- to violence by the depiction of cruelty? Is the viewer's perception of reality eroded by the daily barrage of such images? What does it mean to care about the sufferings of people in faraway zones of conflict?
I'm not sure I agree completely with the book exerpt. I'm not old enough to remember but I do know there was a time as recently as the 1940s-50s where newspapers regularly featured photos of dead people in their articles. I'm thinking of WeeGee the photog...I think that was his name. As well as the Old West where hangings were featured regularly in papers. Anyway, I'm not so sure we do see more horrific things nowadays or that the shock value has completely worn away. I have a morbid curiosity and I used to go to gore sites to look at accident victims and dead people. Deformed babies, and whatnot. After a while I could look without wanting to retch but I was still very much affected. I would wonder what kind of world do we live in if we can do this to someone...or what kind of God could make a baby like this...etc.

I do understand that a person may be more affected by the death of his next door neighbor than by the death of someone half a world away but I think that is only to be expected. I saw those pictures Nomad put up and I've seen far worse for sure but they still moved me.



:yh_think I don't know.



Koan, is that you in your avatar?
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Post by koan »

RedGlitter wrote:

Koan, is that you in your avatar? It is. I don't look like that in the morning though.

I got the book because of its title and the author convinced me that there was some good reasoning behind her premise. It is hard to find a book that is irrefutable. She has a good hypothesis though.
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Post by RedGlitter »

koan wrote: It is. I don't look like that in the morning though.



I got the book because of its title and the author convinced me that there was some good reasoning behind her premise. It is hard to find a book that is irrefutable. She has a good hypothesis though.


Yes, I can agree with that.

I like your avatar photo very much. With the makeup, you remind me of a silent screen star...like maybe Theda Bara. Very cool. :)
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Post by koan »

It lends to the idea that the media directs our attention and tells us what is most heinous. If we didn't read about it in the papers or magasines people tend to disbelieve anything important happened. And there was certainly a lot of talk about how the photos of the Israel/Palestine war should be sanitized.

But then sanitizing photos goes against the speculation that the photos don't affect people.
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Post by Nomad »

koan wrote: I read a book recently called Regarding the Pain of Others by Susan Sontag



It was all about why photographs have lost their effect upon society. One of the distinguishing features of modern life is that it supplies countless opportunities for regarding (at a distance, through the medium of photography) horrors taking place throughout the world. Images of atrocities have become, via the little screens of the television and the computer, something of a commonplace. But are viewers inured -- or incited -- to violence by the depiction of cruelty? Is the viewer's perception of reality eroded by the daily barrage of such images? What does it mean to care about the sufferings of people in faraway zones of conflict?As a makeup artist my first reaction to those photos was "I've made people look worse than that." Sad but true.


I understand about society becoming desensitized due to overwhelming amounts of information blasting by our heads every day, but I think its important to not just gaze when you see something horrid. If you allow yourself the time to become immersed in an image then personalize it by understanding the importance of what a life means its hard to turn your head. There was a book a decade or so ago, I forget the title, but the theme was a day in the life of.............they sent x amount of photographers out to take photos around the country, all in one day. Then they compiled the photos into a book. No words were necessary. The visuals were stunning. Sunrises, sunsets, farmworkers, politicians. Faces, the faces were so descriptive each page told a story. And each story was a life. The alpha and the omega. Sometimes we just need to pause and absorb. I think we need to slow down too.
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RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

I remember that book, Nomad! It was absolutely stunning.

I agree with absorbing and slowing down too, by far.



Photos....I recently saw a photo of a starving African child, squatting down in the dirt, covered with flies and -not joking- there was a VULTURE in wait behind the child. According to the accompanying story, the child was on his way to the food kitchen or whatever they called it, and he did not have the strength to go on. The photog said he snapped the photo and then turned around and left because it upset him so much. I was livid! What kind of human being wouldn not have picked that kid up and carried him to the food?! Put down the damn camera! The food was less than half a mile away.



:(
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Post by Nomad »

RedGlitter wrote: I remember that book, Nomad! It was absolutely stunning.

I agree with absorbing and slowing down too, by far.



Photos....I recently saw a photo of a starving African child, squatting down in the dirt, covered with flies and -not joking- there was a VULTURE in wait behind the child. According to the accompanying story, the child was on his way to the food kitchen or whatever they called it, and he did not have the strength to go on. The photog said he snapped the photo and then turned around and left because it upset him so much. I was livid! What kind of human being wouldn not have picked that kid up and carried him to the food?! Put down the damn camera! The food was less than half a mile away.



:(




Thats why I dont understand everyone bitching about Madonna. She put down the camera and picked the child up. Ill try to find an expressive photo that will challenge someone not to feel something.
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RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

Good point, Nomad.





Here is the photo and article I mentioned. The journalist killed himself afterward. Sad all around.





http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_ ... unfair.htm
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Post by woppy71 »

RedGlitter wrote: Good point, Nomad.





Here is the photo and article I mentioned. The journalist killed himself afterward. Sad all around.





http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_ ... unfair.htm
Oh god :-1

We have to put a stop to this sort of thing.:mad:
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Post by RedGlitter »

I was wrong apparently. *This* article says the journalist shooed away the vulture and the child got to the food place.

Another one I read said no. Truthfully, I believe that he did help the child out. Maybe I am too cynical for my own good. :(
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

Here are a few images that slow me way down.





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RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

Good grief. That wall!

Yes, the execution one. That never fails to get to me.

Who is the older man? Should I know him? I see much of life in his face.



:(
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

RedGlitter wrote: Good grief. That wall!

Yes, the execution one. That never fails to get to me.

Who is the older man? Should I know him? I see much of life in his face.



:(




Just a face I picked off the internet. Thats what I saw too, a life. A man. Theres a whole lot to that. But we have to look.
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Post by cherandbuster »

Nomad wrote: Just a face I picked off the internet. Thats what I saw too, a life. A man. Theres a whole lot to that. But we have to look.


So true, Nomad

So true :-6

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