People who die on bikes...

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:41 pm

deserve it???

I swiped this post from a biker forum I go to occassionally, and I'm interested in the perspectives on it from here.

I was talking with my Lt last shift and out of nowhere he says.. if you die on your motorcycle, I wouldnt feel bad. WTF does that mean? My wife understands what he is saying, but I, for some reason, dont.

Is it different if you die in a car crash, than it is if you die on a motorcycle? It seems a lot of non-riders have this mentality that if you die on a bike, it's your own damn fault for riding one. I am suprised at the number of FF that say it is just stupid and unsafe to ride. Sure we see our share of bike accidents, but we see car accidents also...but they still drive. Not to mention firefighting is dangerous.

I understand if you die in a wreck after a bottle of Patron, but is just simply riding a motorcycle in the same category?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:03 pm

The problem with bike accidents is that they tend not to be minor. A 200 lb. Harley with a 200 lb. biker can't compete with a 3,000 lb. Honda when it comes to a head on at 15 mph, or being side swiped on the Freeway by a big SUV.

My first career was as a Licensed Embalmer & Funeral Director for about 2,400 funerals. I have embalmed many bikers and there seems to be more fatalities per accident than car crashes. The problem is not the skill of the biker, but the fact that they are smaller and more difficut to see. You have little or no protection. I think that all bikers, if they ride long enough and on city streets & freeways will eventually have a serious accident. The odds favor it. That's not true for automobile drivers.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:20 am

like you said, any accident on a motorcycle is serious: there's no such thing as a minor accident on a bike.

and you will notice that a great many wrecks involving bikes were not the riders fault. SoccerMom in her brand new Esclade didn't see him.

Motorcycles were the first vehicle to have standard daytime headlights.

But the motorcycle companies have taken into consideration the "lack of intelligence" most drivers have. That's why bike have an incredible power to weight ratio. should the rider get into a situation and needs to get out on a hurry.

as much as BR would hate to admit it, "CrotchRockets" are probably the best bikes to be on.

Their Power to weight is even greater than a cruiser so you can get away from impending danger even quicker; the power band is a great deal wider. Don't down shift, just crank the throttle and GO

Since they are that much more powerful, the braking system is incredible.

They are unbelievable balanced and nimble, so an experienced rider can dart around and away from trouble.

They have a distinct and unmistakable sound; so drivers can hear them.

And the are always brightly colored; so drivers will notice.

There are old riders and bold riders.

There are NO old, bold riders

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:23 am

Well Wolfy..

gotta agree with ya on the bike/auto accident excuse.. seems like 90% of the time the driver of the H2 Hummer says they didn't see the bike.. even though the headlight was on, rider was in color.. .. etc...

But gotta disagree with ya on the crotchrocket assesment.. yep.. nimble.. fast... etc.. and in the hands of most bikers a deathmachine.. they get that overconfident feeling and override the bike..

more than once I have been cut off .. or seen them take complete risks that not only endanger themselves.. but the driver of the vehicle.. guy I used to ride with bought one of them... got rid of it within a year.. why.. because he felt that he was overriding the bike.. said it was a scary feeling.. so he returned to American Iron.. smart man...

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:57 am

BabyRider wrote: deserve it???

I swiped this post from a biker forum I go to occassionally, and I'm interested in the perspectives on it from here.

I was talking with my Lt last shift and out of nowhere he says.. if you die on your motorcycle, I wouldnt feel bad. WTF does that mean? My wife understands what he is saying, but I, for some reason, dont.

Is it different if you die in a car crash, than it is if you die on a motorcycle? It seems a lot of non-riders have this mentality that if you die on a bike, it's your own damn fault for riding one. I am suprised at the number of FF that say it is just stupid and unsafe to ride. Sure we see our share of bike accidents, but we see car accidents also...but they still drive. Not to mention firefighting is dangerous.

I understand if you die in a wreck after a bottle of Patron, but is just simply riding a motorcycle in the same category?

I don't understand it either BR....this person's a real jerk if you ask me....we have had many converstaions at FG about peoples rights to live their lives as they want....My son, husband and daughter all ride or have ridden bikes and have all had accidents incurring broken bones...shouldn't laugh, but my hubbie had 2 broken arms ... you can imagine the implications...feeding him, washing, , shaving...it was a nightmare and he was grumpy as hell....anyway is this idiot going to include surfers, mountain climbers, bunjee jumpers etc to his list ? i know loads of lifelong bikers that have ridden safely without incident for many years. There are as many a***holes driving cars as there are riding bikes and they do more damage than bikers.:-5

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:59 pm

Wolverine wrote: as much as BR would hate to admit it, "CrotchRockets" are probably the best bikes to be on.

What on earth would give you that idea? Crotch rockets are built for speed, and the ability to maneuver away from a potential hazard has less to do with speed than it has to do with experience, knowledge and reflexes. Just because you're about to get into a dangerous situation does not mean your best course of action is speed.

Wolverine wrote: They are unbelievable balanced and nimble, so an experienced rider can dart around and away from trouble.

They have a distinct and unmistakable sound; so drivers can hear them.

And the are always brightly colored; so drivers will notice.

Any bike is balanced when ridden by someone who knows what they are doing, and the cruisers can have just as good a reaction time as a crotch rocket. The sound is another story. A crotch rocket is very quiet, and often going SO fast, you have no idea it's there till it's too late, whereas cruisers have loud, rumbling pipes, easy to hear from a long ways off.

I have seen many a crotch rocket in grey, black, brown, etc. My purple REALLY stands out.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:09 pm

I've had 4 friends die on bikes and a cousin who has severe brain damage and a mangled body. My best friend of all time - Godfather to my duaghter - was killed on his bike and all I can say is he would not have wanted to go out any other way. In my head I hear him saying "Well Crap - can I get out of this? No, I can't - so let's do it. Just leave me dead and not crippled." John Hilverding 1951 - 1995 - he rides with the angels now.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:55 pm

BabyRider wrote: deserve it???

I was talking with my Lt last shift and out of nowhere he says.. if you die on your motorcycle, I wouldnt feel bad. WTF does that mean? My wife understands what he is saying, but I, for some reason, dont.

Is it different if you die in a car crash, than it is if you die on a motorcycle? It seems a lot of non-riders have this mentality that if you die on a bike, it's your own damn fault for riding one. I am suprised at the number of FF that say it is just stupid and unsafe to ride. Sure we see our share of bike accidents, but we see car accidents also...but they still drive. Not to mention firefighting is dangerous.

I understand if you die in a wreck after a bottle of Patron, but is just simply riding a motorcycle in the same category?
Surely the majority of accidents are caused by careless and inconsiderate car drivers not looking over their shoulder before pulling out!

There's a stretch of road in yorkshire England that is renowned for motorcycle fatalities, bikers ride like demons over the moors because its a good run, unfortunately when they're going at 100+ mph they dont stand much of a chance when they go round a bend and encounter an oncoming car.

IMO, no its not your own damn fault for riding one, If you ride a bike or drive a car like an idiot and have no consideration for other road users, then of course its no-ones fault but your own.

BTW BR, do you wear a crash helmet? here in the UK it's illegal to ride a bike without one.

Ride safe x

orangesox1 · Post by **orangesox1** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:18 am

You can't live life not doing what you like because you might die, it doesn't matter where you are or what your doing if your being responsible about it thats what counts.

As far as bikes go, I always hang back untill I can overtake and them overtake them as if I was over taking a car.

Their are some really stupid drivers around here, most of them have had their license for only a couple of years, and do things I wouldn't do, They still don't deserve to die in their cars either.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:00 am

OS, you're absolutely right, you CAN'T live life not doing what you love. If that was the case, we'd have no fire fighters, no cops, no rescue workers, etc. Would people wish for all cops to quit their jobs because it's dangerous? Heck no! This is not just a hobby or a thrill-seeking adventure for us. This is a way of life. Part of the thrill is the danger, I won't deny that, but we don't go looking for dangerous situations to place ourselves in. There's plenty out there just on your average, everyday ride.

And Abbey, yes, I always wear my helmet. Michigan is not a riders choice state and they are required. There are some states that do not require you to wear a lid, and Ohio is one of those states, where I rode in June for that charity ride. Guess what? I still wore my helmet, even though I didn't have to. I'm a little nuts, but I ain't stupid!! :yh_bigsmi

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:07 am

BabyRider wrote: What on earth would give you that idea? Crotch rockets are built for speed, and the ability to maneuver away from a potential hazard has less to do with speed than it has to do with experience, knowledge and reflexes. Just because you're about to get into a dangerous situation does not mean your best course of action is speed.

Any bike is balanced when ridden by someone who knows what they are doing, and the cruisers can have just as good a reaction time as a crotch rocket. The sound is another story. A crotch rocket is very quiet, and often going SO fast, you have no idea it's there till it's too late, whereas cruisers have loud, rumbling pipes, easy to hear from a long ways off.

I have seen many a crotch rocket in grey, black, brown, etc. My purple REALLY stands out.

dang. didn't mean to pizz you off like that. I said you probably wouldn't agree. i gave a disclaimer at the start. you even quoted it. so put those claws away. i might loose an eye.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:15 am

Wolverine wrote: dang. didn't mean to pizz you off like that. I said you probably wouldn't agree. i gave a disclaimer at the start. you even quoted it. so put those claws away. i might loose an eye.
Oh quit being such a sensitive baby. :yh_wink

You have to do a lot worse than that to pizz me off, I just don't happen to think you're right. This particular statement isn't a matter of opinion, it's a fact. You said the crotch rockets have a distinct noise which makes them easier to hear...that's a faulty statement. They are extrememly quiet. You said if you're about to get into trouble on a crotch rocket, open the throttle and GO. It's not always speed that's going to save you...in fact it's usually the opposite.

I won't keep repeating myself, except to say you didn't pizz me off at all. You're just wrong. :yh_rotfl

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:36 pm

BabyRider wrote: Oh quit being such a sensitive baby. :yh_wink

You have to do a lot worse than that to pizz me off, I just don't happen to think you're right. This particular statement isn't a matter of opinion, it's a fact. You said the crotch rockets have a distinct noise which makes them easier to hear...that's a faulty statement. They are extrememly quiet. You said if you're about to get into trouble on a crotch rocket, open the throttle and GO. It's not always speed that's going to save you...in fact it's usually the opposite.

I won't keep repeating myself, except to say you didn't pizz me off at all. You're just wrong. :yh_rotfl

ok, i should have said that it was MY opinion.

pppttthhhhhhh:p

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:38 am

...

OSTEEN, Fla. -- A string of accidents on a dark, rural road ended with two cars slamming into a group of motorcyclists participating in Biketoberfest early Thursday, killing four people.

WKMG-TV Image

The Florida Highway Patrol says one motorcycle wiped out after hitting a stray dog on State Road 415 just north of Deltona, causing another to also lose control and crash.

Another biker and his female passenger stopped to help. The bikers were participating in Biketoberfest, a four-day party that opened Thursday, bringing thousands of motorcyclists to nearby Daytona Beach from around the country.

Trooper Kim Miller said no one was seriously hurt until two Honda Civics crashed into the group.

Killed were Karen Murgo, a 46-year-old Seminole County school teacher; 56-year-old David Gheen, of Texas; his 36-year-old daughter and her 44-year-old husband, whose names were not immediately released. The dog also died. Gheen's hometown was not immediately released. A driver of one of the cars was treated for minor injuries and released.

"It's a tragedy, because there was a good Samaritan that was trying to help," Miller said.

Miller said the cars weren't speeding and alcohol wasn't a factor, but charges are pending until the investigation is completed.

"It's a very dark road out there. We've got to look at the whole picture and know if (the automobile drivers) should've known and used better caution," she said.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:30 pm

If you get any more info on this accident you'll let me know, LC?

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:21 pm

If I could just throw my two cents in:

I am not a "biker". I dont ride motorcycles because Im scared. I dont ride them because of the same reason I dont ride rollercoasters. I just get all anxious and nervous and panicked. HOWEVER:

I agree that bikes arent really dangerous. The people who do not watch out for them ARE!

And my mother in law lost her 7 yr old son (my husbands brother, she was pregnant with my husband at the time) to a BICYCLE accident. Yes, not a motorbike but a BICYCLE. Anything can happen and like someone posted earlier, its usually not the bikers fault when an accident occurs. Its tragic and sad whatever kind of moving vehicle is involved.

I just want you "bikers" to know, I am ALWAYS on the look out for you guys/gals. It is my responsibility as a safe driver.

grooboggle · Post by **grooboggle** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:08 pm

My wife and I had to sell our bikes this year so going through withdrawal....:-1

However I used to work next to the local Quaker Steak and lube and have saw some incredible stupid riding and driving. I think its a mix. For every cell phone using not paying attention car driver there were as many bikers zipping infront of SUV's and Pickups hitting the off ramp and the brakes hard...my F150 doesn't just stop as nicely as any bike. I think many if not all of the accidents I saw driving the outer belt were caused by alcohol. Mistakes that really are no great shakes sober are very life and death after even a couple of drinks. Way back when I took the motorcycle safety course mandated in Ohio there was a statistic where some huge majority of bike accidents were riders on a bike they had owned less than six months. While this encompasses new riders it also held true for all levels of experience on a new ride.