What does it mean to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Discuss the Christian Faith.
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LarsMac
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What does it mean to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Post by LarsMac »

sheep;1473928 wrote: Does anyone make any sense of High Threshold's ramblings?


Makes sense to me.
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What does it mean to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Post by sheep »

LarsMac;1473929 wrote: Makes sense to me.


care to enlighten us?
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What does it mean to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Post by LarsMac »

sheep;1473930 wrote: care to enlighten us?


Enlightenment can only be achieved from within.

But you asked if anyone could make sense of HT's post.

Yes, I can.

It seems you are the only one who has trouble with it.
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What does it mean to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Post by High Threshold »

sheep;1473928 wrote: Does anyone make any sense of High Threshold's ramblings?


Look, I'm saying that Jesus did not full-fill the criteria of “Messiah”, as Judaic believe had describe Him and/or the prophecies for Mankind at the time of His expected arrival. I can give you a list of those but I don't think it matters at this moment. You are saying that whether or not Jesus fulfilled the covenant-criteria is unimportant “because the prophecies clearly stated he would establish a NEW covenant”. By the definition of your decidedly side-step proclamation even I would fit the bill as Messiah. I do not fulfil the criteria of Messiah as put down by Jewish expectations but …... I do suggest a new covenant. In short, a number of Jews got tired of waiting for the Messiah so they changed the rules, added even more hokus-pokus, decided to REMOVE head-covering when entering the house of worship rather than put something ON it, and proclaimed the under-achieving Jesus as a Messiah with a new bag. Ho-hum. :yh_wait
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What does it mean to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Post by sheep »

High Threshold;1473935 wrote: Look, I'm saying that Jesus did not full-fill the criteria of “Messiah”, as Judaic believe had describe Him and/or the prophecies for Mankind at the time of His expected arrival. I can give you a list of those but I don't think it matters at this moment. You are saying that whether or not Jesus fulfilled the covenant-criteria is unimportant “because the prophecies clearly stated he would establish a NEW covenant”. By the definition of your decidedly side-step proclamation even I would fit the bill as Messiah. I do not fulfil the criteria of Messiah as put down by Jewish expectations but …... I do suggest a new covenant. In short, a number of Jews got tired of waiting for the Messiah so they changed the rules, added even more hokus-pokus, decided to REMOVE head-covering when entering the house of worship rather than put something ON it, and proclaimed the under-achieving Jesus as a Messiah with a new bag. Ho-hum. :yh_wait


Thank-you for the reply and explanation.

I was reading some of those prophecies on the Messiah the other day and I can see some of the issues you are alluding to. A few things were evident with Daniels Prophecy on the Messiah and one in particular was that we was to come and be cut off before the destruction of the completed second temple. While there are some questionable interpretations about the prophecies, I would be more than happy to discuss this further and would like it if you can give some examples of the criteria you are claiming Jesus did not meet.

I will say that often something is stated and people interpret the statement through their own perspectives: not because of the statements actual content.
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Post by High Threshold »

sheep;1473936 wrote: ..... I would be more than happy to discuss this further and would like it if you can give some examples of the criteria you are claiming Jesus did not meet. .............................. I will say that often something is stated and people interpret the statement through their own perspectives: not because of the statements actual content.


Thank you very much, but I've heard enough double-talk for one session.
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What does it mean to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Post by spot »

Shall we have a brief shot at the thread title question perhaps?

It's a quote from when Paul's prison gets hit by an earthquake and the doors fall open [1]. The jail guard is impressed and he asks "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" and gets the reply "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." So, the first tie is to salvation and the early Christian notion that households get saved as a unit, they were quite keen on that. I also note that evangelism is shown being offered to someone who invites instruction, not bellowed out of a megaphone to condemn passing strangers.

Mark wrote that "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

And as a third expression, Paul writing to the Christian community in Rome: "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Central to all three is "saved", with Mark's contrasting "condemned". I conclude that it seems difficult to express the New Testament's view of "belief" without it being indissolubly linked to Divine Judgement, Heaven and Hell.

Present-day Christians who recognize the Bible as a construct of its times, reflecting the thoughts of a group of people in the Middle East between two and three thousand years ago, have no problem with this. Just because the Bible's authors were necessarily blinkered by their cultural environment gives no excuse for modern Christians, in our present culture and understanding, to dogmatically follow those same outdated philosophical and moral errors. Just as Divine Judgement, Heaven and Hell are all morally outrageous and unacceptable human constructs so too is belief. Modern Christianity has no place for any of it.





[1] Or, as Charles Wesley puts it:

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,

fast bound in sin and nature's night;

thine eye diffused a quickening ray;

I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;

my chains fell off, my heart was free,

I rose, went forth, and followed thee.
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Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah. Nor did he ever claim to be THE Son of God, but that ALL men were the Sons of God. He was a radically thinking Jew. Nothing more. Nothing less. It is only the subsequent generations that have raised his legend to the status of a divinity. I have no issues with his actual teachings of Peace. They are worthy principles. My issue is with those, as with all other religions who use his (or their own individual religious figureheads) name as a banner to justify their bloodlust for power, vengeance, torture & murder.

It makes no difference what the religion is - it all comes down to the same thing. Hypocrisy.
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Post by Ahso! »

spot;1473940 wrote: Shall we have a brief shot at the thread title question perhaps?

It's a quote from when Paul's prison gets hit by an earthquake and the doors fall open [1]. The jail guard is impressed and he asks "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" and gets the reply "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." So, the first tie is to salvation and the early Christian notion that households get saved as a unit, they were quite keen on that. I also note that evangelism is shown being offered to someone who invites instruction, not bellowed out of a megaphone to condemn passing strangers.

Mark wrote that "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

And as a third expression, Paul writing to the Christian community in Rome: "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Central to all three is "saved", with Mark's contrasting "condemned". I conclude that it seems difficult to express the New Testament's view of "belief" without it being indissolubly linked to Divine Judgement, Heaven and Hell.

Present-day Christians who recognize the Bible as a construct of its times, reflecting the thoughts of a group of people in the Middle East between two and three thousand years ago, have no problem with this. Just because the Bible's authors were necessarily blinkered by their cultural environment gives no excuse for modern Christians, in our present culture and understanding, to dogmatically follow those same outdated philosophical and moral errors. Just as Divine Judgement, Heaven and Hell are all morally outrageous and unacceptable human constructs so too is belief. Modern Christianity has no place for any of it.





[1] Or, as Charles Wesley puts it:

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,

fast bound in sin and nature's night;

thine eye diffused a quickening ray;

I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;

my chains fell off, my heart was free,

I rose, went forth, and followed thee.Why then call the modern version "Christianity"? It could be that not leaving it all behind only serves to feed into and prolong the debate in it's current (ridiculous) form.

I don't see why any goodwill at all needs to be linked with what is a culturally stagnant obsession with a person who most likely never existed in the first place and an entity that surely doesn't exist and never did.
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What does it mean to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Post by spot »

Ahso!;1473953 wrote: Why then call the modern version "Christianity"?Why should I not? I'm describing followers of Christ, they're termed Christians.

There are extreme fundamentalists within Christianity who insist the Bible is the word of God, and then base towers of dogmatic assertion on that extremist and morally untenable foundation.

There are also reasonable Christians who recognize
  • there is no external Godthat God is what people encounter within themselves through prayer and meditationthat the Bible is a collection of human writings describing the thoughts and actions of its writers and their societythat these writings carry assorted recollections and fictions about one or more contemporary or historical figures, some of whom may have been called Jesus, together with some of the beliefs of the early Christian church of the first century AD.


    I don't see why any goodwill at all needs to be linked with what is a culturally stagnant obsession with a person who most likely never existed in the first place and an entity that surely doesn't exist and never didBecause of the accumulated experience of centuries of Christian mystics, who demonstrably did exist, who have documented a collective exploration of the human psyche in more and better detail than any other group of writers. To go where they have been requires the use of their vocabulary, which is the Christian vocabulary.
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spot;1473958 wrote: Why should I not? I'm describing followers of Christ, they're termed Christians.

There are extreme fundamentalists within Christianity who insist the Bible is the word of God, and then base towers of dogmatic assertion on that extremist and morally untenable foundation.

There are also reasonable Christians who recognize
  • there is no external Godthat God is what people encounter within themselves through prayer and meditationthat the Bible is a collection of human writings describing the thoughts and actions of its writers and their societythat these writings carry assorted recollections and fictions about one or more contemporary or historical figures, some of whom may have been called Jesus, together with some of the beliefs of the early Christian church of the first century AD.I don't have a problem with bullets 1,3 &4; number 2 however is a misrepresentation of what happens in the brain when one thinks without distraction. The use of the term "God" in this context only exacerbates the issue. "God" implies an entity, not a state of mind, as it were.

    We know much more now about what occurs in the brain from engaging in thought, perhaps it's time to begin communicating on it in those terms. That would be forward movement. Linking the emotional side of the brain with the cognitive is as much a part of the problem in myth as any other and moving forward in our language has a great deal to do with it.
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Ahso!;1473959 wrote: I don't have a problem with bullets 1,3 &4; number 2 however is a misrepresentation of what happens in the brain when one thinks without distraction. The use of the term "God" in this context only exacerbates the issue. "God" implies an entity, not a state of mind, as it were.

We know much more now about what occurs in the brain from engaging in thought, perhaps it's time to begin communicating it on in those terms. That would be forward movement. Linking the emotional side of the brain with the cognitive is as much a part of the problem in myth as any other and moving forward in our language has a great deal to do with it.


As I said, one can only interpret Christian mystics by employing the long-established Christian vocabulary. I have no problem with using the word God when describing the union of self with other which is paramount in the writings. I can't imagine anyone having success in re-writing the spiritual diaries of Saints Theresa or John of the Cross and eliminating "God" from the texts. It may well be that you consider the loss of these works as trivial in exchange for consigning Christianity to the dust-heap. I happen not to. I think you have to experience them before reaching such a judgement.

"God" only implies an entity if you insist the word implies an entity. I see no reason why you'd want to be so limiting. We can agree that at the time the Bible was written, "God" implied an entity. Vocabularies, and indeed religions, grow up.
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Post by Ahso! »

I already stated I don't see any problem with 1,3 & 4. What I'm talking about is today's language. We don't say "thine" any longer; "God" belongs with "thine". It's not relevant in the 21st century, individuals such a Sheep notwithstanding.
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Post by spot »

Ahso!;1473961 wrote: We don't say "thine" any longer


I think you over-generalize. I certainly continue to use thine - "thine" is merely, I think, a contraction of "thy one" - and thy, along with mine and my and his'n, your'n and their'n with his your and their. And, come to that, I still use bist, thee and thou. I sometimes expand genitive apostrophes back to their original English - "John's cup" back to "John, his cup". I see no reason why language should invariably descend to lower ground as the years pass.
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Post by High Threshold »

FourPart;1473944 wrote: Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah. Nor did he ever claim to be THE Son of God, but that ALL men were the Sons of God. He was a radically thinking Jew. Nothing more. Nothing less. It is only the subsequent generations that have raised his legend to the status of a divinity. I have no issues with his actual teachings of Peace. They are worthy principles. My issue is with those, as with all other religions who use his (or their own individual religious figureheads) name as a banner to justify their bloodlust for power, vengeance, torture & murder.

It makes no difference what the religion is - it all comes down to the same thing. Hypocrisy.


Yes.
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spot;1473963 wrote: I think you over-generalize. I certainly continue to use thine, and thy, along with mine and my and his'n, your'n and their'n. And, come to that, bist. I sometimes expand apostrophes back to their original English - "John's cup" back to "John, his cup". I see no reason why language should invariably descend to lower ground as the years pass.As thou hast said, then.
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Ahso!;1473966 wrote: As thou hast said, then.


And lo, so t'was.
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I often feel awkward about even using the term "Christianity" when referring to Jesus, as it presupposes that he was the Christ - the Messiah. Christ was not his name - it was the title given to him by subsequent generations & the sect named accordingly. I can accept to being a 'Jesusian' (if there is such a word), as I believe in his moral teachings - but that's as far as it goes. No connection with a supernatural divinity. I believe in the teachings of Ghandi. That doesn't make me a Hindu. However, I have no doubt that one day religious fanatics will end up elevating his name to that of a Divine Entity - and then start bombing anyone who doesn't agree.
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Post by Ahso! »

I'm reminded of this site.

Archbishop Cranmer
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Post by sheep »

FourPart;1473986 wrote: I often feel awkward about even using the term "Christianity" when referring to Jesus, as it presupposes that he was the Christ - the Messiah. Christ was not his name - it was the title given to him by subsequent generations & the sect named accordingly. I can accept to being a 'Jesusian' (if there is such a word), as I believe in his moral teachings - but that's as far as it goes. No connection with a supernatural divinity. I believe in the teachings of Ghandi. That doesn't make me a Hindu. However, I have no doubt that one day religious fanatics will end up elevating his name to that of a Divine Entity - and then start bombing anyone who doesn't agree.


Being a follower of Jesus does not demand you accept his identity, but rather that you follow his teachings.

If a person claims to be an Atheist and lives right and a person claims to believe in God and lives wrong, it is not the one that believes in God that would be justified: but the one that lives right. You and I both know the truth of what I am saying, so who cares about the terms, get on with embracing the teachings of Jesus, because to justify acting with bad emotions is to justify hatred and one cannot be justified who justifies becoming evil and you shall be just and be the good that is worthy of praise by all.

I share the teachings of Jesus with many people, from all walks of life, and I am blessed by the way it infuses vitality into their being. In a world where people justify embracing hatred and ill will towards men, it is powerful to have a testimony that goes against that flow and actually breathes life into others. Nothing but good will come from embracing and promoting the teachings of Jesus: as they are nothing but good.
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sheep;1473994 wrote: Being a follower of Christ does not demand you accept his identity, but rather that you follow his teachings.


Change the word "Christ" to "Jesus" and I would agree with you. I can accept the teachings of a man, but not a title later bestowed on that man by superstitious fanatics who make the claim of his being some divinity.
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Post by sheep »

FourPart;1473998 wrote: Change the word "Christ" to "Jesus" and I would agree with you. I can accept the teachings of a man, but not a title later bestowed on that man by superstitious fanatics who make the claim of his being some divinity.


Okay I did: you will see I actually edited the previous post.



The titles are not important, the teachings are, don't get caught up in semantics. Jesus didn't go around and say: "hey everyone, I'm the Christ". He when around and told people to become the good that he was promoting: as that is all that mattered. A person's actions are virtuous or they are not and in the end that is what matters.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many miracles?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man...

Placing a title on Jesus may give people clarity to know the importance of what he represented, but the title is not the issue, it is embracing the words that lead to changing our actions, that is the only important issue. Our actions are our problem and that needs to be our focus: changing them, to live lives that promote good by being that good. As Gandhi put it: "be the change you want to see in the world".
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sheep;1474000 wrote: Okay I did: you will see I actually edited the previous post.



The titles are not important, the teachings are, don't get caught up in semantics. Jesus didn't go around and say: "hey everyone, I'm the Christ". He when around and told people to become the good that he was promoting, that is all that mattered. A person's actions are virtuous or they are not and in the end that is the important matter.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many miracles?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man...

Placing a title on Jesus may give people clarity to know the importance of what he represented, but the title is not the issue, it is embracing the words that lead to changing our actions, that is the only important issue. Our actions are our problem and that needs to be our focus: changing them, to live a life that promotes good by being that good. As Gandhi put it: "be the change you want to see in the world".


As I said earlier - he never professed to be the Messiah - the Christ. It's his followers that have blown it all out of context.
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Post by sheep »

FourPart;1474001 wrote: As I said earlier - he never professed to be the Messiah - the Christ. It's his followers that have blown it all out of context.


If he did or didn't it still wouldn't change the importance of embracing the good he taught.
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Post by Ahso! »

sheep;1474003 wrote: If he did or didn't it still wouldn't change the importance of embracing the good he taught.Would you mind telling me what it is exactly that this Jesus character taught that was so exclusive to him?
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Post by spot »

I think this chap just comes in to put other posters down. Are we not actually going to discuss what it means to "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" at some stage?
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Post by Ahso! »

To whom doest thou refer?
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Post by spot »

Ahso!;1474020 wrote: Are you referring to me?


Good lord no. That impolite sheep chap who started the thread and then waltzed past my contribution without a word.
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Post by Ahso! »

I think he's evangelizing. Which could be insulting.

For me, I'm trying to establish why Jesus is worth believing in.
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Post by Ahso! »

To your post; it's interesting that the head of the household could stand for the righteousness of the entire family. It must have made Paul's mission (as unsavory as it was) quite difficult when offering his salvation to the Romans. Females and young adults had to be able to qualify for their own salvation without going through the household's male authority figure.
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Post by FourPart »

spot;1474019 wrote: I think this chap just comes in to put other posters down. Are we not actually going to discuss what it means to "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" at some stage?
Isn't it the same with all missionaries - especially the ones that come hammering at the door when they're notoriously not wanted.
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Post by High Threshold »

spot;1474019 wrote: I think this chap just comes in to put other posters down. Are we not actually going to discuss what it means to "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" at some stage?


REPRINT paraphrase of post #31:

"It means that you've tossed logic out the window and opted for superstition".
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Post by spot »

High Threshold;1474033 wrote: It means that you've tossed logic out the window and opted for superstition.


We can work that up, I expect.

It means you've thrown logic and moral integrity out the window by opting for an exclusive communal dogma.
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Post by High Threshold »

spot;1474038 wrote: We can work that up, I expect.

It means you've thrown logic and moral integrity out the window by opting for an exclusive communal dogma.


Can you say that in English please?
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"When you believe in things that you don't understand then we suffer ..... superstition ain't the way."

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Post by sheep »

Ahso!;1474004 wrote: Would you mind telling me what it is exactly that this Jesus character taught that was so exclusive to him?


"Love your enemies" is not a quote I could find prior to Jesus. To me this is the most important statement that has ever been made, because it totally states that all hatred is unacceptable in ones heart towards others.

If one takes the time to study the teachings of Jesus they very quickly see that doing good in all situations, instead of evil, is the main theme in his message.
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Post by sheep »

Ahso!;1474023 wrote: To your post; it's interesting that the head of the household could stand for the righteousness of the entire family. It must have made Paul's mission (as unsavory as it was) quite difficult when offering his salvation to the Romans. Females and young adults had to be able to qualify for their own salvation without going through the household's male authority figure.


If you have read my posts you would before long see that I don't care what Paul thinks or says about anything: Jesus' message is the only message that I condone; Paul I believe to be a fraud.
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Post by sheep »

High Threshold;1474033 wrote: REPRINT paraphrase of post #31:

"It means that you've tossed logic out the window and opted for superstition".


On the contrary: in order for someone to believe in something, that does not make logical sense: they truly would have to be insane.

To believe in Jesus as your Lord means to subject to his Rule, as oppose to the rule of those that do and justify evil: namely todays governing bodies who justify killing people for many reasons. All Governments that justify the use of force, for any reason, are evil: as the use of force is evil and one cannot fight evil with evil and hope to defeat the evil they justify embracing.

You may say: "why accept Jesus' rule, or anyones rule for that matter". And yet you live in a country which demands you accept their rule on fear of being imprisoned if you don't. Try not paying your taxes if you doubt my claims. You think you are free: I say you are insane if you believe so. Jesus' rule is not a forced rule, but one that is freely made, by any who properly choose to be a subject of his kingdom, as by doing so one accepts the good of his teachings as being proper and acceptable to them. You may justify doing evil for some reasons, but a true follower of Jesus' never will and this is what sets your beliefs apart from Jesus' and his followers.
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Post by sheep »

spot;1474038 wrote: We can work that up, I expect.

It means you've thrown logic and moral integrity out the window by opting for an exclusive communal dogma.




On the contrary, if you believe in doing good at all costs: then you and Jesus both stand for moral integrity. But if you justify doing harm to others, for any reason, then you do not stand for moral integrity at all.



If having a communal dogma, means that the collective side with Jesus on only doing good towards others and any other response is unacceptable: what is wrong with that? I suggest that Jesus sides with moral integrity and I highly doubt that you have the same standards as his: on not retaliating to evil with good. Otherwise you would not be so quick to misunderstand Jesus and place him in the same boat as his professed followers: if you were truly on the side of moral integrity (doing good towards others: no matter what they may have done to you).
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Post by Ahso! »

sheep;1474751 wrote: "Love your enemies" is not a quote I could find prior to Jesus. To me this is the most important statement that has ever been made, because it totally states that all hatred is unacceptable in ones heart towards others.

If one takes the time to study the teachings of Jesus they very quickly see that doing good in all situations, instead of evil, is the main theme in his message.That's the only one you wish to cite - the intent behind the "teaching" of "Love your enemies"? Nothing else is attributable to Jesus exclusively?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by spot »

sheep;1474754 wrote: If having a communal dogma, means that the collective side with Jesus on only doing good towards others and any other response is unacceptable: what is wrong with that? I suggest that Jesus sides with moral integrity and I highly doubt that you have the same standards as his: on not retaliating to evil with good. Otherwise you would not be so quick to misunderstand Jesus and place him in the same boat as his professed followers: if you were truly on the side of moral integrity (doing good towards others: no matter what they may have done to you).


I do dislike it when I'm selectively quoted. I didn't say "communal dogma", I said "exclusive communal dogma". You can't just eliminate the Jesus sayings about exclusivity, that the only way to the Father is through the Son. This exclusivity clause is the most damnable barrier to professing Jesus' moral values that Jesus-followers have to deal with, you can't just sweep it under the carpet.
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How many millions have been tortured & murdered in the name of God & Jesus for the imposed rules of Heresy?

Most laws that the world is centred around are mainly based on the 10 Commandments, or at least "Thou Shalt Not Kill" & "Thou Shalt Not Steal". On the whole these are nothing to do with Religion, rather than simple Sociological sense as life would be Anarchy without such rules.

Taxes in the modern world are more a Community Fund intended for the well being of all. Those who put something in get benefits in return.

As for Jesus being the first to teach the tenet of Loving Your Enemy - Bollocks! There was nothing new about the notion.

Biblical Errancy: Jesus was not the first to teach 'Love Your Enemy'
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Ahso!;1474755 wrote: That's the only one you wish to cite - the intent behind the "teaching" of "Love your enemies"? Nothing else is attributable to Jesus exclusively?


That's true, and if we are honest we may find that "Love your neighbour" is stolen from the Jews, i.e. not attributable to Jesus at all.
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spot;1474756 wrote: .... You can't just eliminate the Jesus sayings about exclusivity, that the only way to the Father is through the Son. .....


This is actually one of the BIG THREE reasons why I denounced Christianity (as an adult) and what contributes to exposing purgerous claims of a "One God" indoctrination á la Christianity.
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Post by FourPart »

"Thous shalt have no other Gods before me, for I am a jealous God".

A single sentence that states there is more than 1 God, and that '1' God is guilty of one of his own Sins - Jealousy.
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Post by High Threshold »

FourPart;1474972 wrote: "Thous shalt have no other Gods before me, for I am a jealous God".

A single sentence that states there is more than 1 God, and that '1' God is guilty of one of his own Sins - Jealousy.


Envy, I think.
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Post by FourPart »

High Threshold;1474982 wrote: Envy, I think.


1 Corinthians 3:3

For you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?
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FourPart;1474995 wrote: 1 Corinthians 3:3

For you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?


You must be quoting the American translation. I'm still going with envy.

Swedish: "Ty om avund och kiv finnes bland eder, haven I icke då ett köttsligt sinne, och vandren I icke då på vanligt människosätt?" Envy.
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Post by tude dog »

FourPart;1474972 wrote: "Thous shalt have no other Gods before me, for I am a jealous God".

A single sentence that states there is more than 1 God, and that '1' God is guilty of one of his own Sins - Jealousy.


The big ten begins telling us,

"I am the Lord, your God,"

He's G-d, who's going to argue?

He talking to Jews. G-d knowing his people went on,

"Who took you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

He had us there.

"You shall not have the gods of others in My presence."



Before Moses come down the people created an idol for worship.

That didn't work out well for a lot of folk.

"You shall neither prostrate yourself before them nor worship them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a zealous God, Who visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons, upon the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me,"

Zealous or Jealous, don't turn your back on Him.
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Post by High Threshold »

tude dog;1475005 wrote: The big ten begins telling us,

"I am the Lord, your God,"

He's G-d, who's going to argue?

He talking to Jews. G-d knowing his people went on,

"Who took you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

He had us there.

"You shall not have the gods of others in My presence."



Before Moses come down the people created an idol for worship.

That didn't work out well for a lot of folk.

"You shall neither prostrate yourself before them nor worship them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a zealous God, Who visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons, upon the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me,"

Zealous or Jealous, don't turn your back on Him.


Excellent input, Trude. I am impressed! :yh_clap

But OK, here I go. I'm going to jump in head first. I am not a religious man. I have never read the Bible through, but I have soaked up a thing or two. Still, I am not one to quote the Bible nor can I be relied upon to have any true insight. None-the-less.

1). Zealous and jealous are not synonymous by any stretch of the definition “that I am aware of”.

2). I didn't know the Swedish translation used the term “avund” (envy) until I looked it up yesterday. Prior to that I was merely going on a hunch.

3). The reason I assumed the right translation would be “envy” (prior to knowing the Swedish translation) is because the term “covet” seems to be a reoccurring theme in Biblical terminology. Covet is a broad term - as is “envy” - and used in conjunction with what one ought not to do I assumed that “envy” would be better served as it incorporates the coveting of both "material possessions" and "your neighbour's wife" (jealousy) .

But it comes down to your straight-forward English translation in direct confrontation with my straight-forward Swedish translation. What shall we do now?

Now there is the possibility that the ancient Hebrews used the term “jealousy” in the same way as contemporary Americans often do - to include the envy of another man's possession - but I doubt it.

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