There Is No God.

Discuss the Christian Faith.
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jones jones
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Post by jones jones »

Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. – Anonymous
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Post by jones jones »

“If god is the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end, knows what has passed and what is to come, why do people pray and think it will make any difference?” – Mark Fairclough



God is silent and inactive. Men and women the world over do far more for mankind then any god has ever done. If a passerby noticed a man carrying an automatic rifle entering a school, they would immediately take some form of action to stop him. But god does nothing.

The only evidence ever given for the existence of God has been, “I know he exists therefore he does.” There is otherwise not a single shred of real evidence to prove the existence of god. Nobody has seen him do anything or say anything. Without exception all those people who have claimed to have either seen or spoken with him have been found to be insane or liars.
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Post by jones jones »

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” – Epicurus





What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create?

Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist.

A perfect creator God is impossible.
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Post by jones jones »

All-good God Knowingly Creates Future Suffering.

“Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil. They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all?” – Sister Miriam Godwinson



Christian are taught that God is omniscient. When he created the universe, he saw the sufferings which humans would endure as a result of the sin of those original humans. He heard the screams of the damned. Surely he would have known that it would have been better for those humans to never have been born?
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Post by jones jones »

The god character of the bible hates women.

Finally, sometime in the next 800 years, Adam begat some daughters. These nameless ones are the first (and nearly the last) girls to be born in the Bible. Genesis 5:4

"She was barren."

In the Bible it's always the women that are "barren", never the men. And when God "opens their womb," the resulting babies are always little boys. Genesis

25:21-26

Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Pet.2:7-8. 19:8

Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord." But what about the "women children"? Don't they ever get to appear before the Lord? Exodus 34:23
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Post by jones jones »

Miriam and Aaron (Moses' brother and sister) criticize Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman and thus breaking the law of God. But God makes it clear that his rules don't apply to his favorites, and he strikes Miriam with leprosy. Notice that only Miriam is punished, though both she and Aaron complained. Numbers 12:1, 9-10

Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins Numbers 31:1-54

If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death." Numbers 22:23-24

David and Saul have a contest to see who can kill the most people for God, and the women act as cheerleaders saying, "Saul has killed his thousands, and David his tens of thousands." Samuel 18:6-7, 21:11, 29:5

God says he will destroy Tyrus. He plans to kill everyone, but he is especially looking forward to killing all of the women. "And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD." Ezekiel 26:1-21
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Post by jones jones »

God Loves Killing Women & Children.

More Rape and Baby Killing.

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Mass Murder.

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

You Have to Kill.

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

God Promises More Killing.



I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
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Post by jones jones »

And God said:

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

Burn Nonbelievers



"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

A Rebellious Son.

"If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."
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Post by jones jones »

And Jesus was no better ...

1.He told his followers to hate their families.

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

2.He came to break apart families.

"I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." Matthew 10:35-36

"The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." Luke 12:51-53

3.He insisted that his followers love him more than anyone else (including their families).

"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:37

4.He encouraged people to abandon their home and family for his name's sake.

"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." Matthew 19:29, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30

5.He was rude to his own family.

Then one said unto him, "Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee." But he answered and said unto him that told him, "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?" And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, "Behold my mother and my brethren!" Matthew 12: 47-49, Mark 3:31-34, Luke 8:20-21
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Post by jones jones »

A thoughtful person who thinks about God cannot help but notice the amazing contradictions. They are everywhere you look.

Here is one very simple example. On the day Moses comes down from Mount Sinai with the stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments, he discovers that the Israelites have created a golden calf. To punish the people, Moses gathers a group of men and takes the following action in the book of Exodus, Chapter 32:

Then he [Moses] said to them, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.

So... one minute we have God carving into stone, "Thou shalt not kill." Then the next minute we have God telling each man to strap a sword to his side and lay waste to thousands. Wouldn't you expect the almighty ruler of the universe to be slightly more consistent than this? 3,000 dead people is a lot of commandment breaking. Obviously that is a total contradiction. The reason why you find contradictions like that in the Bible is because God is imaginary.
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Post by jones jones »

Look at this description of the Catholic Church: "The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest.

But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment."

The contradiction is startling. No where in Jesus' teachings is it suggested that Christians should buy land and build church buildings with indoor basketball courts. No where does Jesus suggest the accumulation of billions of dollars in gold bars. Chistians are supposed to sell everything and give the money to the poor, according to Jesus.

Yet church congregations do exactly the opposite on a regular basis. Building a large sanctuary and indoor basketball courts is an exercise in vanity, ego-boosting, selfishness and human pride. These attributes are the opposite of Jesus' prescriptions and everyone knows it.

Church congregations regularly and willfully ignore Jesus' teachings because they know that Jesus is imaginary.
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Post by jones jones »

"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Post by jones jones »

"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

:yh_rotfl

You're a riot.

I recognize the impression. Good imitation.

Hugs. :-4
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Post by jones jones »

AnneBoleyn;1435463 wrote: :yh_rotfl

You're a riot.

I recognize the impression. Good imitation.

Hugs. :-4




I just thought you might Annie ... Should I am for a gazillion posts too?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

jones jones;1435465 wrote: I just thought you might Annie ... Should I am for a gazillion posts too?


Should I am? What kind of talk is that?
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Post by jones jones »

AnneBoleyn;1435467 wrote: Should I am? What kind of talk is that?


Aim ... I said Aim!
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

jones jones;1435469 wrote: Aim ... I said Aim!


Now you tell me. I already forgot the question!
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Post by jones jones »

AnneBoleyn;1435470 wrote: Now you tell me. I already forgot the question!


Take aim ... take aim!!!
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Okay, settle down............a gazillion posts? Only if the spirit moves you!
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Post by jones jones »

AnneBoleyn;1435474 wrote: Okay, settle down............a gazillion posts? Only if the spirit moves you!


Got a bottle of Scotch I'm gonna crack tomorrow night ... so I guess I might just be moved!
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Post by Wandrin »

Thank you for a much needed chuckle.
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Post by jones jones »

Wandrin;1435507 wrote: Thank you for a much needed chuckle.


Watch this space ...
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Post by jones jones »

“Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man ... living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money.”

― George Carlin
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Post by jones jones »

Somewhere in the world a man has abducted a little girl. Soon he will rape, torture, and kill her. If an atrocity of this kind not occurring at precisely this moment, it will happen in a few hours, or days at most. Such is the confidence we can draw from the statistical laws that govern the lives of six billion human beings.

The same statistics also suggest that this girl’s parents believe -- at this very moment --that an all-powerful and all-loving God is watching over them and their family. Are they right to believe this? Is it good that they believe this?
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Post by jones jones »

You do not need the Bible to justify love, but no better tool has been invented to justify hate.” – Richard Weatherwax
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Post by Wandrin »

When God watches an American football game, does he really decide who is going to win based on the number of people praying for that team to win? Does he give extra points to those who pray with great volume and showmanship?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Wandrin;1435902 wrote: When God watches an American football game, does he really decide who is going to win based on the number of people praying for that team to win? Does he give extra points to those who pray with great volume and showmanship?


No.
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Post by jones jones »

“Religion easily has the best bullshit story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money. – George Carlin
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Post by jones jones »

Prayer: To ask the laws of the universe to be annulled on behalf of a single petitioner, confessedly unworthy.” – Ambrose Bierce.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Post by jones jones »

“Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.” – Unknown
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Post by jones jones »

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car – and no one will let you drive.” – Anonymous
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Post by Oblivion4463 »

jones jones;1436480 wrote: �Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.� � Unknown


I like this one^

Prayer and worship is for slaves to there master, not for a son to his father. Those that worship are slaves that what they worship with the ILLUSION of choice in there minds

If God accepts worship then he is not a just god at all.
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Post by jones jones »

Oblivion4463;1436504 wrote: I like this one^

Prayer and worship is for slaves to there master, not for a son to his father. Those that worship are slaves that what they worship with the ILLUSION of choice in there minds

If God accepts worship then he is not a just god at all.


Exactly. Good quote!
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Post by jones jones »

Religious faith does not cause people to behave better ... just as atheism does not cause people to behave worse.
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Post by jones jones »

Historical accuracy is a rather new product and the writers in ancient times never ever dreamed of it. They wrote to be interesting and not to tell the truth.
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Post by jones jones »

Curiosity has replaced blind faith and atheism flaunts itself.
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Post by jones jones »

In the main Christianity is simply a rehashing of early Egyptian religion. Even the dove as the emblem of the holy spirit was cribbed from Egypt. The bird in hieroglyphics signifies the soul of man.
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Post by LarsMac »

Just because there is no God in your life does not mean that I must abandon mine.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
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Post by jones jones »

LarsMac;1436593 wrote: Just because there is no God in your life does not mean that I must abandon mine.


Of course you must not abandon your god LarsMac ...

You see that's the difference between believers and atheists ... We don't gather in groups to confess our unworthiness before an invisible man in the sky, we don't stand on street corners quoting from a work of fiction and we don't want to convert anyone.

We simply state our point of view as I am doing in this thread and which is my right.
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Post by YZGI »

jones jones;1436595 wrote: Of course you must not abandon your god LarsMac ...

You see that's the difference between believers and atheists ... We don't gather in groups to confess our unworthiness before an invisible man in the sky, we don't stand on street corners quoting from a work of fiction and we don't want to convert anyone.

We simply state our point of view as I am doing in this thread and which is my right.


Some of us who believe in a "God" don't necessarily gather in groups or stand on a street corner quoting from anything. Myself, I just feel/believe that there must be something bigger or greater than the egg sandwich on my plate in this universe. I have no idea what it is, I definetly don't think it is what most of the preachers or priest's pontificate about.
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Post by jones jones »

YZGI;1436611 wrote: Some of us who believe in a "God" don't necessarily gather in groups or stand on a street corner quoting from anything. Myself, I just feel/believe that there must be something bigger or greater than the egg sandwich on my plate in this universe. I have no idea what it is, I definetly don't think it is what most of the preachers or priest's pontificate about.


Of course you're correct.

In retrospect I should rather have said "Christians" instead of believers.

My mistake.
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Post by LarsMac »

jones jones;1436595 wrote: Of course you must not abandon your god LarsMac ...

You see that's the difference between believers and atheists ... We don't gather in groups to confess our unworthiness before an invisible man in the sky, we don't stand on street corners quoting from a work of fiction and we don't want to convert anyone.
Not all religions (even all Christians) want to convert everyone, either.

jones jones;1436595 wrote: We simply state our point of view as I am doing in this thread and which is my right.


As it is my right to do, as well.
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Post by jones jones »

LarsMac;1436625 wrote: Not all religions want to convert everyone, either.

Yeah well maybe not the Shakers who are very similar to the Quakers ... they're not very popular because all members of their religion are required to be celibate.



As it is my right to do, as well.


1] Yeah well maybe the Shakers don't because they're quite small ... all members of their religion have to be celibate you see.

2] Naturally ... that goes without saying.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

LarsMac;1436625 wrote: Not all religions (even all Christians) want to convert everyone, either.

As it is my right to do, as well.


Jesus himself wanted the gospels preached in every town, every corner of the world. This he urged his apostles to do in his name, so you are wrong.

I don't think JJ is questioning your right to believe, merely stating his own POV.

eta--Of course there are a few Xians as you describe, but they are in the minority
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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

AnneBoleyn;1436627 wrote: Jesus himself wanted the gospels preached in every town, every corner of the world. This he urged his apostles to do in his name, so you are wrong.

I don't think JJ is questioning your right to believe, merely stating his own POV.

eta--Of course there are a few Xians as you describe, but they are in the minority
Correction.

Jesus wanted the "Gospel" preached in every town. Jesus came to preach the Gospel. So it was not "The gospels" - stories written in the century after he left the planet - that he wanted passed around.

He wanted his message preached. That we are to love our neighbor and treat others as we would treat our own. That the Kingdom was at hand and we must learn to love each other and forego hatred.



So, all those "Christians" have been getting it horribly wrong for the last two millennia.

In worshipping the messenger, we have lost the message.

That fact fails to disprove God.



Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Also, LM, I believe I was confusing Jesus with what Paul instructed the followers to do. Big mistake.

Fails to disprove God? Nothing proves or disproves God. It's your belief, your faith-----or not. There is no proof.

That's the regularly scheduled program.
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Post by YZGI »

LarsMac;1436672 wrote: Correction.

Jesus wanted the "Gospel" preached in every town. Jesus came to preach the Gospel. So it was not "The gospels" - stories written in the century after he left the planet - that he wanted passed around.

He wanted his message preached. That we are to love our neighbor and treat others as we would treat our own. That the Kingdom was at hand and we must learn to love each other and forego hatred.



So, all those "Christians" have been getting it horribly wrong for the last two millennia.

In worshipping the messenger, we have lost the message.

That fact fails to disprove God.



Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.


That is an excellent point.

Now if we only were sure of what HIS message was or has it been manipulated to fit religions?
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Post by jones jones »

"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Post by jones jones »

"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters

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