I'm reading the Bible

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:17 am

OpenMind;1337060 wrote: No, it was the Christians who arguing over this matter. The pagans were never involved.I doubt accuracy matters to him or her.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:19 am

OpenMind;1337058 wrote: people in fear of their lives from an all powerful creator.
Where does one find such people, these days?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:54 pm

xyz;1337066 wrote: Where does one find such people, these days?

YouTube - Eye2EyeIIV's Channel

Course there's always the end of timers - Coming to a polling booth near you.

YouTube - SEVEN THEORY - End Times Prophecy - Think About It

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:43 pm

gmc;1337086 wrote: YouTube - Eye2EyeIIV's Channel
And are those Christians also, along with those who apparently did not know Scripture when they read it?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:22 pm

Bez;1334911 wrote: I started to read the Bible this week. I have a New Living Translation version which is very easy to read even though the print is not really big enough for my aging eyes !!!.

Now then....when I was growing up within the Christian Faith I was taught all sorts of things from the bible....... God created the world.....the story of Moses.....Christs birth and Crucifixion and lots more. Now I see that I know virtually nothing !

I'm so absorbed in the stories and messages ...it's facinating and scary. God had such high hopes for his 'Chosen People' and seemed so very cruel in his punishment for thier transgressions.

hmmmmmm...there's one thing i got out of the bible ...God is never threatening . He gave his messages to those that were supposed to pass it onto us ....it's not about punishmant at all ...but he hastens to warn us of what will happen as nations if we follow a certain path. If you sit back and look at what history has provided us with it makes sense. Old wisdoms are there to teach us, it dosent matter that we are in the PC age ...humans will always be humans. did he cause any of the economic downfall? did he punish us? NOPE!!! he already warned us of what greed does ......and now we have it....there's no vengence just old wisdom.

It's like when people use the bible to make points of certain things. VOLCANOES EARTHQUAKES ETC...Well these are all timed things geographically The floods and pestenance and frogs and knats etc. of the olden times happens today ...they were just clever enough to be able to turn around a kings opinion. because they knew the process of drought and flood. (I remember when we had our fires and the islamists said it was gods vengence ...say what? Nope, just what we have to put up with and how the world in nature works.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:06 am

fuzzywuzzy;1337165 wrote: hmmmmmm...there's one thing i got out of the bible ...God is never threatening . He gave his messages to those that were supposed to pass it onto us ....it's not about punishmant at all ...but he hastens to warn us of what will happen as nations if we follow a certain path. If you sit back and look at what history has provided us with it makes sense. Old wisdoms are there to teach us, it dosent matter that we are in the PC age ...humans will always be humans. did he cause any of the economic downfall? did he punish us? NOPE!!! he already warned us of what greed does ......and now we have it....there's no vengence just old wisdom.

It's like when people use the bible to make points of certain things. VOLCANOES EARTHQUAKES ETC...Well these are all timed things geographically The floods and pestenance and frogs and knats etc. of the olden times happens today ...they were just clever enough to be able to turn around a kings opinion. because they knew the process of drought and flood. (I remember when we had our fires and the islamists said it was gods vengence ...say what? Nope, just what we have to put up with and how the world in nature works.

I partially understand what you say fuzzy. Of course I understand about 'natural disasters and yes plagues and Rivers of blood etc can be explained by natural phenomenom but I'm still finding it hard to get to grips with passages like the following :-

Exodus 11 (New International Version)

Exodus 11

The Plague on the Firstborn

1 Now the LORD had said to Moses, "I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely.

2 Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold."

3 (The LORD made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and by the people.)

4 So Moses said, "This is what the LORD says: 'About midnight I will go throughout Egypt.

5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.

6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egyptâ€”worse than there has ever been or ever will be again.

7 But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal.' Then you will know that the LORD makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel.

8 All these officials of yours will come to me, bowing down before me and saying, 'Go, you and all the people who follow you!' After that I will leave." Then Moses, hot with anger, left Pharaoh.

9 The LORD had said to Moses, "Pharaoh will refuse to listen to youâ€”so that my wonders may be multiplied in Egypt." 10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.

Exodus 12 (New International Version)

Exodus 12

.....................

29 At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

30 Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead.

The Exodus

31 During the night Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron and said, "Up! Leave my people, you and the Israelites! Go, worship the LORD as you have requested.

32 Take your flocks and herds, as you have said, and go. And also bless me."

33 The Egyptians urged the people to hurry and leave the country. "For otherwise," they said, "we will all die!"

34 So the people took their dough before the yeast was added, and carried it on their shoulders in kneading troughs wrapped in clothing.

35 The Israelites did as Moses instructed and asked the Egyptians for articles of silver and gold and for clothing.

36 The LORD had made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and they gave them what they asked for; so they plundered the Egyptians.

I guess I am looking for explanations to some of the 'messages' that I don't understand. Maybe I can find some 'Bible classes' for 'grown ups where an expert can point me in the right direction, however I'm guessing that there will be many different interpretations.

I'm also looking online for guidance

I very much appreciate everyones comments here....

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:03 am

Where did you get those NIV passages from, Bez?

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:17 am

xyz;1337218 wrote: Where did you get those NIV passages from, Bez?

I pick passages out of BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages. because there are so many translations available there, several of which I find useful. I quite like their range of commentaries too. Bez? Are you using the same site?

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:33 am

fuzzywuzzy;1337165 wrote: hmmmmmm...there's one thing i got out of the bible ...God is never threatening . He gave his messages to those that were supposed to pass it onto us ....it's not about punishmant at all.

We may be reading different bibles. What on earth is Exodus 32 about (I just take that almost at random as an example), if it's not threats and punishments?

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:43 am

xyz;1337218 wrote: Where did you get those NIV passages from, Bez?

I got the one I posted today from...... New International Version (NIV Bible) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

I have used another resource, but I can't remember which one. I'll post when I remenber or find it through Google.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:49 am

spot;1337225 wrote: We may be reading different bibles. What on earth is Exodus 32 about (I just take that almost at random as an example), if it's not threats and punishments?Exodus had me quivering the first time I read it.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:21 am

Bez;1337244 wrote: I got the one I posted today from...... New International Version (NIV Bible) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com
This is how a straight copy and paste from that site looks:

'1 Now the LORD had said to Moses, "I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely. 2 Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold." 3 (The LORD made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and by the people.)'

Giving a separate line to each verse makes reading and comprehension more difficult, for you as well as readers here, and doing that presumably took up some of your time.

One cannot expect non-Christians to do the following, but the presentation can be further improved like this:

'Now the Lord had said to Moses, "I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely. Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold." (The Lord made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and by the people.)'

That's pretty well the impression given by an ordinary printed NIV. Even easier to read, I think you'll agree. The verse numbering is unnecessary in this case; the caps of 'LORD' look too big on computer, the convention does not provide an accurate rendition of the Hebrew anyway, so can be replaced with lower case for a less 'religious', more accessible appearance.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:30 am

Ahso!;1337248 wrote: Exodus had me quivering the first time I read it.

The entire period of the Exodus is an odd one when it comes to pretending Almighty God is good. Of the entire adult population of Israel who set out with Moses from Egypt, "six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children", only twelve ever set foot in the Promised Land - and God deliberately killed ten of those with the plague seven weeks later as a punishment for dissention.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:49 am

xyz;1337269 wrote: This is how a straight copy and paste from that site looks:

'1 Now the LORD had said to Moses, "I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely. 2 Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold." 3 (The LORD made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and by the people.)'

Giving a separate line to each verse makes reading and comprehension more difficult, for you as well as readers here, and doing that presumably took up some of your time.

One cannot expect non-Christians to do the following, but the presentation can be further improved like this:

'Now the Lord had said to Moses, "I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely. Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold." (The Lord made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and by the people.)'

That's pretty well the impression given by an ordinary printed NIV. Even easier to read, I think you'll agree. The verse numbering is unnecessary in this case; the caps of 'LORD' look too big on computer, the convention does not provide an accurate rendition of the Hebrew anyway, so can be replaced with lower case for a less 'religious', more accessible appearance.

OK xyz

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:03 am

xyz;1337269 wrote: This is how a straight copy and paste from that site looks:

'1 Now the LORD had said to Moses, "I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely. 2 Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold." 3 (The LORD made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and by the people.)'

Giving a separate line to each verse makes reading and comprehension more difficult, for you as well as readers here, and doing that presumably took up some of your time.

One cannot expect non-Christians to do the following, but the presentation can be further improved like this:

'Now the Lord had said to Moses, "I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely. Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold." (The Lord made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh's officials and by the people.)'

That's pretty well the impression given by an ordinary printed NIV. Even easier to read, I think you'll agree. The verse numbering is unnecessary in this case; the caps of 'LORD' look too big on computer, the convention does not provide an accurate rendition of the Hebrew anyway, so can be replaced with lower case for a less 'religious', more accessible appearance.Have you figured out a way to explain the "one sin" theory yet? I'm dying to understand that one. Please don't leave me hanging too long even If I'm in need of clarification.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:08 am

Ahso!;1337063 wrote: I think thats because they don't actually believe in God either, the main concern for believers seems to lie in the group mentality and doing the God mantras signifies membership, like sport teams and motorcycle gang members who wear their uniforms...military too. Not all who call themselves christian are like this of course, there is a small minority who get the metaphors.

That's also a fair point. Keeping up appearaces.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:42 pm

I like the creation story of the earth, one of the best that exists. The story of people gets a little sketchy though. Cain's wife seems to appear out of nowhere... after he is overly worried about being killed by people who weren't begat yet. Perhaps they just left out the part where God was so pleased with Adam and Eve he made more of them in other places. Though we don't know if he also put naughty trees in their gardens too.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:20 pm

Noah:

So... what exactly did Ham "see"? "And he saw" seems to have taken on a really heavy significance.

Also, I'm with the people who wonder how righteous Noah was since he didn't plea for anyone's life or actually say anything at all.

On my chopping block:

Scrap most of the begats from earlier because after the flood none of the other begats have a story to tell. The begats are also flawed. Though we just heard about Cain and Abel, who actually had a story, the writers removed them from the begats. Why go through a bunch of begats we'll never hear about and cut the ones we know something about? Each one of those names now has a pretty empty wikipedia page resulting in millions of people going "damn... I just wasted a click"

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:17 pm

Bez;1337185 wrote:

but I'm still finding it hard to get to grips with passages like the following :-

Exodus 11

The Plague on the Firstborn Etc.

Bez, the intended understandings of verses and or books of the Bible will never come to you all at once. Your mind just would not cope with it. It's too much too soon.

It can take years to understand many aspects of the written Word within the Bible.

When your mind is ready to understand and take it all in, all will be revealed to you if, and you appear to be, genuine, regarding Biblical studies.

Please always keep that in mind. Don't be put off studying the Bible due to me mentioning that. I promise, all will be well with you if you continue studying in your own way, in your own time.

Prove all things for yourself, but the proving will take time.

Continue with your joy, as you read the Bible.

God bless.

bb

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:42 pm

This is what seems to always happen when a person wants to have open critical discussion on the bible. Christians come along and try to dictate how one should be deliberating it's content and meaning. All this right/wrong interpreting hampers the conversation.

Christians, try talking about the bible like any other book. Like it or not, its just another book.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:52 am

binbag;1337396 wrote: Bez, the intended understandings of verses and or books of the Bible will never come to you all at once. Your mind just would not cope with it. It's too much too soon.

It can take years to understand many aspects of the written Word within the Bible.

When your mind is ready to understand and take it all in, all will be revealed to you if, and you appear to be, genuine, regarding Biblical studies.

Please always keep that in mind. Don't be put off studying the Bible due to me mentioning that. I promise, all will be well with you if you continue studying in your own way, in your own time.

Prove all things for yourself, but the proving will take time.

Continue with your joy, as you read the Bible.

God bless.

bb

Now you see where the scientologists get their ideas from, all will be reavealed when you reach the top operating thetan level - or whatever it is.

What a rationalisation that is - if you don't believe it's the word of god it's because you don't understand it. Knowledge that is arcane is beloved of con merchants.

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:13 am

Ahso!;1337409 wrote: This is what seems to always happen when a person wants to have open critical discussion on the bible. Christians come along and try to dictate how one should be deliberating it's content and meaning. All this right/wrong interpreting hampers the conversation.

Christians, try talking about the bible like any other book. Like it or not, its just another book.Thatâ€™s the stuff Ahso; you tell those Christians they have absolutely no right to come in here with comments that hamper the conversation regarding Bible reading.

Demand they become aware the Bible is just a book like any other book. Demand they change their way of thinking regarding the Bible. Demand they realize, they are wrong and you are right.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:22 am

binbag;1337493 wrote: Thatâ€™s the stuff Ahso; you tell those Christians they have absolutely no right to come in here with comments that hamper the conversation on Bible reading.

You tell them they are wrong and you are right.

At least he's not telling her she's too thick to understand.

Bez, the intended understandings of verses and or books of the Bible will never come to you all at once. Your mind just would not cope with it. It's too much too soon.

is that because she is a mere female or because you are somehow better equipped for understanding the deeply meaningful, but hidden, message of the bible?

Post by **spot** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:24 am

binbag;1337493 wrote: That’s the stuff Ahso; you tell those Christians they have absolutely no right to come in here with comments that hamper the conversation on Bible reading.You have to admit, Christians do tend to insist that they have more insight into its meaning than non-believers can. Which is, quite frankly, ludicrous and the reverse of the truth since they're so biased as to the required conclusions.

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:51 am

spot;1337499 wrote: You have to admit, Christians do tend to insist that they have more insight into its meaning than non-believers can. Which is, quite frankly, ludicrous and the reverse of the truth since they're so biased as to the required conclusions.Right enough spot, after all, those who, say, read social studies, tend to insist they have more insight into social cause and effect than those who look upon it as utter baloney.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:11 am

binbag;1337493 wrote: Thatâ€™s the stuff Ahso; you tell those Christians they have absolutely no right to come in here with comments that hamper the conversation regarding Bible reading.

Demand they become aware the Bible is just a book like any other book. Demand they change their way of thinking regarding the Bible. Demand they realize, they are wrong and you are right.The harshness that obviously came across from my post was unintended.

From the very beginning of this thread it seemed apparent, at least to me, that Bez was reading this book as literature and not necessarily seeking spiritual guidance from it. Having been a Christian myself for several years and understanding the teachings of the religion, I understand Christians believe anyone who picks up a bible must be doing so because 1) they are seeking God or 2) God is calling them into the fold, the reader therefore needing the guidance of the already acquainted believer. My post was rather direct in pointing out the fact that thats not always the case and Christians might be wise to discern the differences first before assuming otherwise.

What would a biblical discussion be without the Christian in it? Boring probably, though Koan makes it very entertaining either way. So no, BB, I don't want to chase you away, I'm only asking to discuss the subject objectively as was seemingly intended by the OP.

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:12 am

gmc;1337498 wrote: At least he's not telling her she's too thick to understand.

is that because she is a mere female or because you are somehow better equipped for understanding the deeply meaningful, but hidden, message of the bible?Being sexist is not part of my life gmc.

When did Bez start her study of the Bible?

Is there a deeply meaningful, but hidden message in the Bible, as you mention?

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:25 am

Just to get back on track a bit.

I started this thread as a kind of journal as I read the bible .

Why did I decide to read the Bible ? Answer: Not too sure really but it was during the Popes visit that I first thought about it.

My religious history: Bought up a Christian (C.O.E.).One of my uncles was a Bishop and another a Parish Priest. My Grandad was Church Warden in our Parish Church.....I was Baptized and Confirmed. Married in Church and my 3 children baptized.

My Mum was a regular church goer whos faith wavered when she was ill and suffering. She thought her pain was Gods punishment for things that happened many years ago.... she had a baby during the war whos father was a canadian soldier. This was kept a secret from me until I was in my 40s as she was very ashamed....different age - different standards.

For some reason 5 years ago I was drawn to Buddhism and practised for 5 years along with my daughter who was my mentor. I can't explain WHY I turned to Buddhism....maybe I wanted to get nearer to my daughter....I really don't know but I can say this was a time in my life when I made some life changing decisions. Buddhism is a wonderful practise.

So..... back to the Bible. When I was growing up as I stated before I was taught all the 'popular' bible stories. Adam & Eve, Moses, Jonah, Sampson, Solomom, Birth of Jesus, Miracles of Jesus, Crucifixion and so on. Lovely stories as told to children but now I'm very much a 'grown up' and I feel I need to delve deeper and get a better understanding.

So far I can relate to Jesus the 'Son' of God rather than God the Father who I am still finding rather scary. I'm probably taking things too literally instead of understanding the 'hidden' messages.

Oh well....off to another reading session

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:29 am

binbag;1337511 wrote: Being sexist is not part of my life gmc.

When did Bez start her study of the Bible?

Is there a deeply meaningful, but hidden message in the Bible, as you mention?

A Couple of weeks ago bb. I have only ever read parts of the bible as directed by teachers, Vicars as & when it was required for lessons etc

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:43 am

Ahso!;1337510 wrote: The harshness that obviously came across from my post was unintended.

From the very beginning of this thread it seemed apparent, at least to me, that Bez was reading this book as literature and not necessarily seeking spiritual guidance from it. Having been a Christian myself for several years and understanding the teachings of the religion, I understand Christians believe anyone who picks up a bible must be doing so because 1) they are seeking God or 2) God is calling them into the fold, the reader therefore needing the guidance of the already acquainted believer. My post was rather direct in pointing out the fact that thats not always the case and Christians might be wise to discern the differences first before assuming otherwise.

What would a biblical discussion be without the Christian in it? Boring probably, though Koan makes it very entertaining either way. So no, BB, I don't want to chase you away, I'm only asking to discuss the subject objectively as was seemingly intended by the OP.

You're right in a way Ahso. I am reading the Bible as literature....as a reference book I guess. However, somewhere in my heart / mind I think I'm searching for something but I'm not sure 'what'. I only know that when I go into a Church, Cathedral or somewhere that has a religious history I feel very moved. It may be just the history I don't know....maybe as I am getting older i am looking for comfort, a closeness to or belonging to something.....oh goodness....this post looks as confused as I feel.....sorry

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:51 am

gmc;1337498 wrote: At least he's not telling her she's too thick to understand.

is that because she is a mere female or because you are somehow better equipped for understanding the deeply meaningful, but hidden, message of the bible?

Ha ha....no I'm not thick but I'm definitely not an academic. I have many creative and practical skills but I'm useless at anything cryptic or as you say 'hidden'. Everythings black and white to me. i do question things a lot though (ever heard of the 5 Whys) but I need absolutely clear answers and with religion as in so many things there are many interpretations

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:52 am

Bez;1337547 wrote: You're right in a way Ahso. I am reading the Bible as literature....as a reference book I guess. However, somewhere in my heart / mind I think I'm searching for something but I'm not sure 'what'. I only know that when I go into a Church, Cathedral or somewhere that has a religious history I feel very moved. It may be just the history I don't know....maybe as I am getting older i am looking for comfort, a closeness to or belonging to something.....oh goodness....this post looks as confused as I feel.....sorryYou're not all that confused then really because the post makes perfect sense. Its common for people to seek familiarity for comfort, its where you know you've been safe in the past, so at times we desire to return. It's quite normal, Bez.

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:58 am

Bez;1337546 wrote: A Couple of weeks ago bb. I have only ever read

parts of the bible as directed by teachers, Vicars as & when

it was required for lessons etcHi Bez, thank you for your reply.

Going by your first post in this, your thread, I picked up on that point. ie "a couple of weeks"

I simply posed the question (you refer to) in reply to gmc's comment, please see below, with the hope that what I was trying to get across was understood.

gmc;1337498 wrote: is that because she is a mere female or because you are somehow better equipped for understanding the deeply meaningful, but hidden, message of the bible?

Incidentally, I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this thread, very enlightening in many ways.

Keep posting, it's a tremendous thread.

Well done.

bb

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:07 pm

Ahso!;1337550 wrote: You're not all that confused then really because the post makes perfect sense. Its common for people to seek familiarity for comfort, its where you know you've been safe in the past, so at times we desire to return. It's quite normal, Bez.

Do you know I think you're right....I was 64 this week and although its not old - and I don't feel it - I have been thinking a lot about my family that live abroad and many miles away in the UK lately. Also my parents. Last week, on the spur of the moment I drove 20 miles to my nearest Cathedral to light candles for them.

My sister lives in San Diego and has done so since 1966. She's 71 and has such a strong belief and is very upfront and outspoken about it. Her belief in God has seen her through many adversaties in her life....and there's been a lot.

Anyway.....Thanks Ahso......I may be getting somewhere after all. :-6

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:10 pm

Happy Birthday!

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:19 pm

binbag;1337552 wrote: Hi Bez, thank you for your reply.

Going by your first post in this, your thread, I picked up on that point. ie "a couple of weeks"

I simply posed the question (you refer to) in reply to gmc's comment, please see below, with the hope that what I was trying to get across was understood.

Incidentally, I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this thread, very enlightening in many ways.

Keep posting, it's a tremendous thread.

Well done.

bb

Thanks bb

I do get a bit 'carried away' and long winded sometimes but for some reason I feel quite passionate about this exercise. Apart from reading the Bible which is so interesting in religious terms and historically, I have also been delving into the 'Lost Gospels' and learning about the discovery of the scrolls, parchments etc. Wikipedia has been a great source of info.

Warm wishes

Bez :-6

P.S. My usual reading 'matter' is Crime novels and Autobiographies so this is very different.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:21 pm

Ahso!;1337554 wrote: Happy Birthday!

Thanks Ahso....I had a great day

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:30 pm

Ahso!;1337510 wrote: The harshness that obviously came across from my post was unintended.

From the very beginning of this thread it seemed apparent, at least to me, that Bez was reading this book as literature and not necessarily seeking spiritual guidance from it. Having been a Christian myself for several years and understanding the teachings of the religion, I understand Christians believe anyone who picks up a bible must be doing so because 1) they are seeking God or 2) God is calling them into the fold, the reader therefore needing the guidance of the already acquainted believer. My post was rather direct in pointing out the fact that thats not always the case and Christians might be wise to discern the differences first before assuming otherwise.

What would a biblical discussion be without the Christian in it? Boring probably, though Koan makes it very entertaining either way. So no, BB, I don't want to chase you away, I'm only asking to discuss the subject objectively as was seemingly intended by the OP.Oh dear, there goes my sense of humour causing dismay again.

Ahso, you didn't come across as being harsh at all. I replied with a piece of light hearted humour.

I’m afraid it’s a case of one country not understanding the humour of another country. I did the same sort of thing with another member (in fact I must find that particular post again)

I’m Scottish, and the Scots’, more so Glaswegians, have an obscure sense of humour. It’s not uncommon to even throw insults to each other with the result they almost end up on the floor with laughter. It gets worse if everyone concerned is on particularly friendly terms.

A number of years ago we had an American teenager, a friend of my daughter, come to stay with us. She was absolutely appalled at the beginning when my daughter and I started some humorous banter with each other. I had to explain our sense of humour to the poor girl. I don't think she'll ever forget it.

Hard to understand I know.

So, my apologies to you.

Oh, I nearly forgot, Bez has mentioned she's keen to understand the spiritual aspect of the Bible. What the eventual outcome will be for her, I don't know, but I really hope she finds what she's looking for. I wish her well.

bb

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:50 pm

binbag;1337511 wrote: Being sexist is not part of my life gmc.

When did Bez start her study of the Bible?

Is there a deeply meaningful, but hidden message in the Bible, as you mention?

I don't care whether you are sexist or not - for all i know you may be female yourself - I happen to know bez is other wise I wouldn't have mentioned it. It struck me as being a very patronising comment.

You neatly sidestepped the second part of the question

s that because she is a mere female or because you are somehow better equipped for understanding the deeply meaningful, but hidden, message of the bible?

You implied she was incapable of understanding.

Your mind just would not cope with it. It's too much too soon.

It's a much used tactic of the religious - you don't believe because you don't understand and just need to study properly. Your mind can't cope with it.

Is there a deeply meaningful, but hidden message in the Bible, as you mention?

I didn't mention it (I don't think) however you clearly implied arcane knowledge of which you have insight, presumably as a practising christian. Why would god want to hide his message? If there was the only purpose of it can be to give the power of knowledge to those who can see it - it's something priests have been claiming to have for years - I have insight to the ways of the lord follow me/ give me money and do as I say and all will be revealed. If you think it all aload of cobblers you just haven't read it properly, it's not yet time for god to show you his purposed I will pray for you - all the rationalisations you can think of.

You should have worked out by now that I do not believe the bible is the word of god nor do i believe there is any message in it hidden or otherwise.

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:16 am

Hi.

gmc

I don't care whether you are sexist or not - for all i know you may be female yourself - I happen to know bez is other wise I wouldn't have mentioned it. It struck me as being a very patronising comment.

My gender is available for all to see gmc.

gmc

You neatly sidestepped the second part of the question.

No I didnâ€™t, I said â€œIs there a deeply meaningful, but hidden message in the Bible, as you mention?â€

I know the answer; I was asking if you did.

gmc

You implied she was incapable of understanding.

No I didnâ€™t.

Bez says sheâ€™s been reading the Bible for a few weeks. Nobody, and this is with due respect for Bez, understands the entire works of the Bible based on a few weeks study.

gmc

It's a much used tactic of the religious - you don't believe because you don't understand and just need to study properly. Your mind can't cope with it.

â€œTacticâ€ No it isnâ€™t a tactic used by me.

If others use tactics in defence of their beliefs, then they are not true believers of Christian values.

gmc

you clearly implied arcane knowledge of which you have insight, presumably as a practising christian.

No I didnâ€™t.

Why?....because there is no secret or mysterious knowledge in the Bible.

gmc

Why would god want to hide his message? If there was the only purpose of it can be to give the power of knowledge to those who can see it - it's something priests have been claiming to have for years â€“

Wrong.

All Biblical knowledge is available for anyone who wishes to discover and understand it. However, knowledge, can take years to realize its full potential.

gmc

I have insight to the ways of the lord follow me/ give me money and do as I say and all will be revealed.

Wrong.

Everyone is given the freedom of choice in deciding whether they wish to accept or deny any given statement purported to be coming from the teachings of the Bible.

Acceptance is an individual choice. Nobody is forced, or should not be forced, to blindly follow a pastorâ€™s declaration.

Everyone must prove all things for themselves, and "prove all things" is not an option, it is a command;

And that command comes directly from the bible.

gmc

If you think it all aload of cobblers you just haven't read it properly, it's not yet time for god to show you his purposed I will pray for you - all the rationalisations you can think of.

You should have worked out by now that I do not believe the bible is the word of god nor do i believe there is any message in it hidden or otherwise.

Gmc, Iâ€™m not forced to believe anything, same goes for everyone else. We all, have the freedom to choose what we think.

Cobblers or not, if I want to believe the moonâ€™s a balloon; thatâ€™s up to me, itâ€™s my free choice.

bb

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:34 pm

Ahso

This is what seems to always happen when a person wants to have open critical discussion on the bible.

Actually, Bez did not say it was an open critical discussion on the Bible.

Ahso

Christians come along and try to dictate how one should be deliberating its content and meaning.

Who are the Christians in this thread who are trying to dictate to you?

Ahso

All this right/wrong interpreting hampers the conversation.

What right and wrong stuff is hampering the conversation?

Ahso

Christians, try talking about the bible like any other book. Like it or not, itâ€™s just another book.

So, youâ€™re dictating Christians must accept the Bible is just another book, Ahso!!

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:02 pm

gmc

Now you see where the scientologists get their ideas from, all will be revealed when you reach the top operating the tanlevel - or whatever it is.

Scientologists stole ideas from the Christians. I never knew that, gmc.

â€œtanlevelâ€ I'm not trying to be smart, but I donâ€™t know what that means.

gmc

What a rationalisation that is - if you don't believe it's the word of god it's because you don't understand it.

Likewise, Christians, who donâ€™t believe some of the words of scientists, do so because they donâ€™t understand it!!!

Interesting.

gmc

Knowledge that is arcane is beloved of con merchants..

Really? Christians love to have secret or mysterious knowledge.

And we're all, including me, "con merchants".

Well, if people weren't aware of that, they sure do now.

Footnote: Am I glad Iâ€™m not responsible for this thread going off on a tangent from Bezâ€™s original post.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:23 pm

On a personal note, BB, I really, really like you.

And your avatar is to kill for, its as good as Nomad's.

binbag · Post by **binbag** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:46 pm

Ahso!;1338685 wrote: On a personal note, BB, I really, really like you.

And your avatar is to kill for, its as good as Nomad's.Well, that is an unexpected compliment Ahso, thank you. Your words are more than kindness to me.

My thanks to you.

bb

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:03 pm

Has it made you laugh yet, Bez? I'm disturbing the peace at work on my lunch hour laughing at Exodus.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:54 pm

koan;1338959 wrote: Has it made you laugh yet, Bez? I'm disturbing the peace at work on my lunch hour laughing at Exodus.

I haven't had time to read for a few days koan, but so far.....no laughs.

I'm part way through 'Kings'.

Post by **spot** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:25 pm

Bez;1339795 wrote: I haven't had time to read for a few days koan, but so far.....no laughs.

I'm part way through 'Kings'.

Kings is great fun Bez. Jehu's worth watching, in a Bruce Willis sort of way.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:34 pm

Bez;1339795 wrote: I haven't had time to read for a few days koan, but so far.....no laughs.

I'm part way through 'Kings'.
Really? You didn't even laugh when God moons Moses in Exodus 33:23? "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen."