The Saints

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Raven
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Post by Raven »

Does anybody know about who the Saints were anymore? What they did? Why and what miracles were associated with them? What simple messages did they try to teach, but modern people readily forget?



Lets begin at the beginning. For us in the West, Britain and Ireland were ground 0. Iona. But before St. Augustine came from Rome, there were the Celts! Lets start with St. Ninian



It is 360 A.D. Rome is leaving, and thus plunging Britain into the dark ages. Ninian is born to a celtic chieftain in Cumbria, near Hadrians Wall. At the age of 18, Ninian went to Rome to learn more about christianity. Consecrated a bishop by the pope, he left for home 10 years later. But in 387 A.D. on the way home, he met Martin of Tours. Martin was extremely worried at how christianity had been seduced into a position of compromise when it became the official religion of state and people.

So he began a series of small communities after the style of Syria and Egypt. (copts)

Ninian eventually came back and began a monastary and built the first stone church in Britain in Galloway. This became the first Celtic Church.

The remains can be found there today. But what did Ninian stand for?

I will continue the story tomorrow!
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
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Post by AussiePam »

Interesting, Raven!!

I have a 2009 wall calendar - got lent on to buy it by the local boy scouts of the town of Condom (yup, really) in south western France and every day is a Saints Day. In fact, it's normal to celebrate your Saints Day in place of your actual birthday. Many of these saints are minor (in my opinion) and I'm evil minded enough to suspect that, in some areas, the local saint was in fact the local pagan deity, taken over by the official religion to make the village happy... but Saint Ninian is not minor of course.

Here's the list for now:

Friday 23 October - St Jean de Capostan - (an Italian Franciscan)

Saturday 24 October - St Florentin - (? but it's a place in Burgundy)

Sunday 25 October - St Enguerrand - (bishop and chaplain to Charlemagne)
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Raven
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Post by Raven »

How cool! Most people over here would scoff and snort at the mention of Saints. It's sad really.
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Post by AussiePam »

The Apostles' Creed, common to all main stream Christian denominations speaks of the Communion of Saints. So it's hard to toss them out altogether, though probably the interpretation of sainthood may be a bit different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed

All Saints Day is just around the corner - 1 November when Christians celebrate the Church Triumphant. I've always thought this was a particularly jolly festival.

And of course All Hallow's Eve (Halloween) is the night before.... when, in the early Celtic church, and before it in the old religion, the portals between the living and the dead, between earth, hell, heaven were briefly thrown open. Samhain was the beginning of the old Celtic year, the end of summer, the doorway between the two seasons, light and dark.
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Post by Raven »

To the Celts, everything in life was interwoven. They understood God as community. Three in one. They understood the trinity far better than modern man does. Because the Druids did everything in 3's. And even more poignant is their understanding that we lived in commune with nature itself. Ocenas, rivers, mountains, valleys, clouds, all the creatures, fossils, minerals, and vegetation. And they had no problem with integrating what the druids used. Like they built their little monasteries on sacred sites. Their philosophy was integrate not castigate!

A celtic monk wrote this poem about his little hut:

A household full of people

could not be more happy

than my hut in the forest.

It is God who built it.

He gave the branches of the tree

to construct it's frame

Mud to plaster it's walls

And grass to thatch the roof.

It is God who dwells here.

When I kneel down to pray

I know God is here.

And when I lay down to sleep

I know His angels guard me.



These people would go into the North Sea and Irish sea up to their armpits and pray hour after hour after hour, with their arms stretched out like a cruciform. We dont know the first thing about prayer anymore! To pray for others was considered a major work in life!

The celtic knotwork is among some of the most beautiful ever made. For instance the designs in the Lindisfarne Gospels and Book of Kells. These people LIVED!
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
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Post by AussiePam »

I agree completely, Raven. Even some bits in St Patrick's breastplate are just so unlike other Christian poetry. Earthy.

I've never been to Lindisfarne, but have been a couple of times to Glendalough - where St Kevin lived.

You make me think of the use of the shamrock to illustrate the mystery of the Trinity.
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Post by Raven »

Exactly!

Patrick is probably the one who taught that!

I bow before the Father who made me,

I bow before the Son who saved me,

I bow before the Spirit who sustains me



They were very trinitarian.

What would St. Patrick think of todays Ireland? And he would probably have fits over how people celebrate his day now! :thinking:
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Post by AussiePam »

St Patrick's Day - in it's current bacchanalian form - is an American invention, I understand, though under tourism pressure it seems to have seeped back to bits of Ireland. It was once just a Saint's Day, a special important Saint's Day, and a day of obligation. You didn't dye the guinness and potato green. You went to Mass.
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Post by Raven »

A contemporary of Patrick was St. Brigid of Kildare. For it is said of her, "For everything that Brigid asked of the Lord was granted her at once. For this was her desire; to satisfy the poor, to expel every hardship, to spare every miserable man. Now there has never been anyone more demure, or more modest, or more gentle than Brigid. she neverwashed her hands or her head or feet among men. She never looked at the face of a man. she would never speak without blushing. She was abstinent,and innocent and prayerful. She was patient and kind. She was glad in God's commandments. She was a consecrated casket for Christ. She was a temple of God. Her heart and mind were a throne of rest for the Holy Spirit. She was simple towards God and she was compassionate towards the wretched."

That was her epitaph! She was the most famous of all the female Celtic Christians. Born around 452 A.D. Her life began in the boundaries between paganism and Christianity. Her mother was a slave girl made pregnant by her master. Eventually through all the sellings she was sold to a druid. It is said that as she crossed the threshold to his door she gave birth to Brigid. The Druid became her adoptive father who had had a vision of three angels coming and baptising and naming her. By refusing to marry, she became a nun. As she waited last in line the bishop saw a firey pillar above her head and he said "Come holy Brigid, that a veil may be placed over your head before all the others." Then by mistake, it is said he read from the wrong service and made her a bishop.
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Post by AussiePam »

Ah Naomh Brid - now she is a real intermingling of Christianity and the old religion.

St Bridie's day - 2 February - the Presentation of Christ in the Temple, Purification of the Blessed Virgin, a pagan festival of lights, the end of winter and the day in rural Ireland when the ewes were considered to come into milk, Candlemas, Imbolc.

Here's a small gift for you, Raven



Imbolc Ritual

I am East.

I am the Golden One.

Bringer of the Dawn

where new beginnings emerge

and all things are possible.

I am South.

I am the Brilliant One.

Caretaker of the Day

where life is transformed.

I am West.

I am the Shapeshifter.

Usher of Twilight.

Bringer of tranquility

where we learn stillness.

I am North.

I am the Nurturer.

Keeper of the Night.

Creator of the Sacred Spaces

where we rest our hearts and spirits.

I am Center.

I am the All.

Guardian of the Mysteries

where time and space are infinite.



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Ted
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Post by Ted »

Raven:-6

A very interesting topic. In our church we use the Iona service on the second Sunday of each month. It is a truly beautiful service.

I have recently read a book about Celtic Christianity and found it fascinating and inspiring.

My grandmother was able to trace our ancestry back to the Celts. Perhaps that is in part why I am interested???

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Raven »

How lucky you are! It seems thecelts had a better understanding of the trinity than modern church goers do. They had a keener sense of community and prayer. While their doctrine is strictly orthodox, they seem better enlightened to a few truths, that we have somehow forgot.
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Post by AussiePam »

It's the feast of All Saints today - la Toussaint in France!! A glorious festival.
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Post by KSnyder »

I'd not so recently have taken an interest in the origin of the name Kevin and much like anyone that knows a fair amount of history knows that the name Kevin was popularized in the late 6th and early 7th centuries by the Irish saint Coemgen of Glendalough from whom I owe me name to! Thank you Coemgen of Glendalough, you're a saint!:thinking: I only hope that I'm forgiven for my complete and utter failure to uphold the traditions having made rudimentary for having popularized the very name behind the man whom had resisted a Wonderfully Beautiful temptress! I would have then,..have,..and will fail, MISERABLY!, in the future given the chance!

I am fascinated, in all retrospect, to in how the spelling variations of the name have changed over the time since. I know that Kevin was spelled Coemgen, Caoimhghin and the more modern variation, Caoimhin! I'm curious to know when in fact the name had begun to be spelled Caoimhin. Would this spelling of the name be seen around the beginning of the 13th century? I've searched but to no avail!
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Post by AussiePam »

KSnyder;1257895 wrote: I'd not so recently have taken an interest in the origin of the name Kevin and much like anyone that knows a fair amount of history knows that the name Kevin was popularized in the late 6th and early 7th centuries by the Irish saint Coemgen of Glendalough from whom I owe me name to! Thank you Coemgen of Glendalough, you're a saint!:thinking: I only hope that I'm forgiven for my complete and utter failure to uphold the traditions having made rudimentary for having popularized the very name behind the man whom had resisted a Wonderfully Beautiful temptress! I would have then,..have,..and will fail, MISERABLY!, in the future given the chance!

I am fascinated, in all retrospect, to in how the spelling variations of the name have changed over the time since. I know that Kevin was spelled Coemgen, Caoimhghin and the more modern variation, Caoimhin! I'm curious to know when in fact the name had begun to be spelled Caoimhin. Would this spelling of the name be seen around the beginning of the 13th century? I've searched but to no avail!


I've visited St Kevin's cell at Glendalough, Kevin - twice in fact. Lots of echoes there. I don't know when the modern Irish spelling came in but as you I'm sure know there has been a big revival of Irish language in the last sixty years. Because Irish had not been written down for a long time before that, the spoken language had changed, in the normal way and diverged from the older written language. I studied the language for three years and remember one of the teachers telling us about the Irish Government's attempt to modernise the spelling to take account of these changes... lots of no longer pronounced syllables were lost and the sound changes which happened in different cases, or word combinations were explicitly also written.

mh is a v sound

gh is just an aspirate, a breath

c - followed by a or o is pronounced like a k, not a soft c

cw not cy

Of course this is just the nominative case... grin.

Like Seamus, James become Hamish when you address him..

I LOVE IRISH !!
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Post by KSnyder »

AussiePam;1257934 wrote: I've visited St Kevin's cell at Glendalough, Kevin - twice in fact. Lots of echoes there. I don't know when the modern Irish spelling came in but as you I'm sure know there has been a big revival of Irish language in the last sixty years. Because Irish had not been written down for a long time before that, the spoken language had changed, in the normal way and diverged from the older written language. I studied the language for three years and remember one of the teachers telling us about the Irish Government's attempt to modernise the spelling to take account of these changes... lots of no longer pronounced syllables were lost and the sound changes which happened in different cases, or word combinations were explicitly also written.

mh is a v sound

gh is just an aspirate, a breath

c - followed by a or o is pronounced like a k, not a soft c

cw not cy

Of course this is just the nominative case... grin.

Like Seamus, James become Hamish when you address him..

I LOVE IRISH !!


So would have sounded more like Kee-hen than Kee-ven?

Oh btw I'm IRISH KISS ME!!!!!!!!! :yh_rotfl :yh_winks!!!!!!!!

:yh_kisses!!!!!!!!!

:wah:

:yh_wink

:yh_kisses!!!!!!!!
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Post by AussiePam »

KSnyder;1257939 wrote: So would have sounded more like Kee-hen than Kee-ven?

Oh btw I'm IRISH KISS ME!!!!!!!!! :yh_rotfl :yh_winks!!!!!!!!




Oh, my apologies. I misunderstood when you asked. I guess you know all about pronunciation and spelling conventions way better than I do.
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Post by KSnyder »

AussiePam;1258074 wrote: Oh, my apologies. I misunderstood when you asked. I guess you know all about pronunciation and spelling conventions way better than I do.


Well all I really knew was that the spelling Caoimhin is pronounced - Kee-ven - :yh_think I think. I'm sure of the - kee - part :yh_think I think.
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Post by Calhouncam »

The Saints are an Australian rock band, formed in Brisbane in 1974. They are considered to be one of the first and most influential punk groups. The Saints were employing the fast tempos, raucous vocals and "buzzsaw" guitar that characterised early punk rock.
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Post by YZGI »

I thought this thread was about the New Orleans Saints.



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Post by AussiePam »

What a game, YZGI !!!!! The Saints rocked !!!
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Post by YZGI »

AussiePam;1290760 wrote: What a game, YZGI !!!!! The Saints rocked !!!
Yeah it was a great game.
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Post by Saint_ »

Raven;1255497 wrote: Does anybody know about who the Saints were anymore? What they did? Why and what miracles were associated with them? What simple messages did they try to teach, but modern people readily forget?


Great thread, Raven! I'm pretty sure that to become a saint, you have to die in the service of Christ. I'm positive that you have to have three verified miracles to be 'canonized."

I'm also pretty sure that my namesake, Saint Ives, was boiled in oil, but I'm not sure who did it or when.:-3
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Post by AussiePam »

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Ives (Yves)

Saint - looks like Saint Ives (Yves) was a Breton. I've been to Tréguier on the northern "pink granite" coast. Interesting place.
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Post by xyz »

Raven;1255497 wrote: Does anybody know about who the Saints were anymore?
'All of creation waits with eager longing for God to reveal his sons.' Ro 8:19 GNB

The history of the church will be 'written' on the last day, not a moment before.
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Post by Glaswegian »

xyz;1321929 wrote: 'All of creation waits with eager longing for God to reveal his sons.' Ro 8:19 GNB
Really, xyz? Does this include the micro-organisms on my Aunt Fanny’s haemorrhoids?
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Post by hoppy »

St. Hoppy. Though not yet officially canonized, St. Hoppy is known for his tireless efforts to convert liberals into honest and useful people. His life was filled with hardships (job losses, divorce) and beatings (fights) but he never let that deter him.
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Post by Ted »

I am reminded of that parable which comes up this Sunday. The parable is about two men in the temple. One prays that he thanks God he is not as others including the tax collector who only asks God to forgive him a sinner. In light of this parable which one does the above poster represent.
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Post by xyz »

Ted;1339567 wrote: I am reminded of that parable which comes up this Sunday.
Pagan parable, eh.
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Post by Ted »

XYZ

Must be, eh!!!

Shalom

Ted
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Post by xyz »

Ted;1339571 wrote: XYZ

Must be, eh!!!

Shalom

Ted
Especially with the 'Shalom'?
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Post by Ahso! »

Shalom, Ted.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Live long and prosper :-)
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Post by koan »

I remember praying to the Saint who helps you find lost things but I don't remember now what his name is. For that very reason I'm unable to pray to that Saint to help me remember the name.

Argh.

It worked too so it would be kind of nice if someone just told me what it is, though I suppose I'm about to google it. Thanks for reminding me there's a Saint for all this forgetting.
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Post by xyz »

Scratch an atheist, find a Catholic.
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Post by CinnamonBear »

Lovely thread, Raven. Thanks. A few of my favorites are St. Michael the Archangel, St. Anthony, St. Jude, St. Faustina. Of course, there are more.

Koan, his name is St. Anthony and yes, he works overtime. He's been in charge of my car keys for years. Love him!
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Post by xyz »

CinnamonBear;1339675 wrote: his name is St. Anthony and yes, he works overtime. He's been in charge of my car keys for years. Love him!
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Post by Bez »

Patron Saints of Causes



Abandoned children - St. Jerome

Adopted children - St. William

AIDS - St. Roque

Alcoholism - St. Monica

Amputees - St. Anthony

Animals - St. Francis of Assisi

Arthritis - St. James

Bachelors - St. Christopher

Battles - St. Michael

Birds - St. Francis of Assisi

Blindness - St. Lucy/St. Lawrence

Bodily ills - Our Lady of Lourdes

Boy Scouts - St. George

Breast cancer - St. Peregrine

Breast diseases - St. Agatha

Brides - St. Nicholas/St. Dorothy

Cancer - St. Peregrine

Catholic universities - St. Thomas Aquinas

Charity - St. Vincent de Paul

Chastity - St. Agnes

Child abuse - St. Germaine

Child birth - St. Leonard

Childless - St. Henry

Children - St. Nicholas

Chivalry - St. George

Clear weather - St. Thomas Aquinas

Colic - St. Charles Borromeo

Convulsions in Children - St. Scholastica

Counsel - Gift of Holy Ghost

Cramps - St. Maurice

Cripples - St. Giles

Deaf - St. Francis De Sales

Death of children - St. Louis

Desperation - St. Jude

Difficult marriages - St. Elizabeth/St. Cecilia

Divorce - St. Luke

Domestic animals - St. Anthony

Doubt - St. Joseph

Dying - St. Joseph

Emigrants - St. Francis Xavier

Enemies of religion - St. Sebastian

Epilepsy - St. Genesius

Expectant mothers - St. Gerard

Eyes - St. Lucy

Eye diseases - St. Raphael

Falsely accused - St. Gerard

Families - St. Joseph

Family harmony St. Dymphna

Fever - St. Peter

Foot troubles - St. Peter

Fortitude - Holy Spirit

Gambling addiction - St. Bernadino

Girl Scouts - St. Agnes

Gout - St. Andrew

Grandmothers - St. Anne

Handicapped - St. Henry

Happy death - St. Joseph

Hazards of traveling - St. Christopher

Headaches - St. Dennis

Healing of wounds - St. Rita

Heart ailments - St. John

Hesitation - St. Joseph

Homelessness - St. Margaret

Hopeless cases - St. Jude



Hospitals - St. Vincent de Paul

Immigrants - St. Francis Xavier Cabrini

Impossible situations - St. Jude

Impulsive gambling - St. Bernadine

Insanity - St. Dymphna and Saint Christina

Invalids - St. Roque

Learning - St. Ambrose

Loneliness - St. Rita

Long life - St. Peter

Lost article - St. Anthony

Lovers - St. Raphael

Lumbago - St. Lawrence

Lungs and chest - St. Bernadino

Married couples - St. Joseph

Mental illness - St. Dymphna

Missions - St. Theresa

Mothers - St. Anne

Nerves - St. Dymphna

Newborn babies - St. Brigid

Older unmarried Causes - St. Andrew

Orphans - St. Louise

Peace - St. Nicholas

Peril at sea - St. Thomas Aquinas

Piety - Gift of the Holy Ghost

Poisoning - St. Benedict

Polio - St. Margaret Mary

Poor - St. Anthony

Pregnant Causes - St. Gerard

Prisoners St. Vincent de Paul

Rain - St. Scholastica

Rape - St. Dymphna/St. Agnes

Refugees - St. Alban

Retreats - St. Ignatius of Loyola

Rheumatism - St. James the Great

Runaways - St. Dymphna

Safe journey - St. Raphael

Schools - St. Thomas Aquinas

Separated spouses - St. Elizabeth

Sick - St. Camillus

Single Causes - St. Andrew

Skin diseases - St. Peregrine

Solitary death - St. Francis of Assisi

Spinsters - St. Catherine

Spiritual help - St. Vincent de Paul

Stomach trouble - St. Charles Borromeo

Storms - St. Barbara

Students - St. Thomas Aquinas

Sudden death - St. Barbara

Temptation - St. Michael

Throat - St. Cecile

Tongue - St. Catherine

Toothache - St. Patrick

Travel - St. Christopher

Tuberculosis - St. Theresa

Tumor - St. Rita

Ulcers - St. Charles Borromeo

Uncontrolled gambling - St. Bernadino

Vanity - St. Rose of Lima

Virgins - Miraculous/St. Joan of Arc

Widowers - St. Thomas More

Widows - St. Louise

Wild animals - St. Blaise

Wisdom - Gift of Holy Ghost

Causes in labor - St. Anne

Youth - St. Gabriel
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Post by xyz »

Could you get up a list of Disney characters? They're just as useful, and more entertaining.
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Post by Bez »

xyz;1339776 wrote: Could you get up a list of Disney characters? They're just as useful, and more entertaining.


I did......enjoy !

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/gener ... enjoy.html
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Post by xyz »

Highly sanctified, this place.
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Post by Boogalette »

I like this thread.

I have gotten heavier into my religion, and I enjoy learning about different aspects to it.

I like the idea of saints. I also enjoy the idea that they come from pagan religions as well. I am of the opinion that there is merit to them and I enjoy knowing that certain rituals and holidays come from some of the original`churches.

I enjoy the stories of the saints, but I don`t pray to them. I pray to One, as I have always felt that praying to saints as the same as praying to `other gods`, a no no according to the commandments.

But if someone else wants to, I`ll never judge them for doing so.
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
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Post by xyz »

Boogalette;1339949 wrote: I like the idea of saints.
Then will you become one? Because if you don't, you're toast.
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Post by Boogalette »

Naw, too much pressure on becoming and being a saint. ;)

I`m quite fallible and I also do not want credit for any miracles I may perform. LOL
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
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Post by xyz »

Boogalette;1339964 wrote: Naw, too much pressure on becoming and being a saint.
Many are called, few are chosen.
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Post by Ahso! »

xyz;1339962 wrote: Then will you become one? Because if you don't, you're toast.:wah:And if you do it means your brain is toast.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Ahso! »

xyz;1339967 wrote: Many are called, few are chosen.Hearing vioces again? Forgot the meds?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

Fiona Apple
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