Did the Bible cause terrorism.....??

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:10 pm

Salam Alikom,

Shalom Alikom,

Peace for you,

I readed in the Holy Book many strange verse , I couldnt know if it means violence and terrorist or what , it was scary verses anyway....:yh_nailbi

I'm really interested to know Why God said that verses...............??

That verses is basically in the Torah , the book of Jews , but the Christians too , believe in the same Book , as an Old Testament....

Ezekiel 9:6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Isaiah 13:16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Hosea 13:1616 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

1 Samuel 15:2-4

2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

Let us look at Numbers 31:17 "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Also, let us look at Numbers 31:35-40 "[From the captives of war] 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.......of which the tribute for the LORD was 32 [virgin women]."

Why kill the innocent children? Why kill all of the non-virgin women? Back then, it was only men who fought men in wars. Women rarely fought in battle fields. So what crime did the innocent children and the non-virgin women do?

Did that verses really been taken in consideration by Christians and spreaded the terrorism.............??

Thats what we can see Obviosely everywhere , hundreds , but lts say thousands of terrorist Christian groups appeared becayse of thos teachings...

Christian terrorism is religiouse terrorism by groups or individuals, the motivation of which is typically rooted in an idiosyncratic interpretation of the Bible and other Christian tenets of faith. From the viewpoint of the terrorist, Christian scripture and theology provide justification for violent political activities

Some Christiant terrorist Organisation,

Canada,

The Sons of Freedom a sect of Doukhobor anarchists, have Protested rude, blown up power pylons, railroad bridges, and set fire to homes, often targeting their own property.......

India,

The National Liberation Front of Tripura, a rebel group operating in Tripura, North-East India classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world, has been accused of forcefully converting people to Christianity.

The Nagaland Rebels of Nagaland, North-East India is a coalition of rebel groups including the National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Isak-Muivah, has been involved in an ethnic conflict that has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths since the Indian Declaration of Independence

Ireland,

Several people have stated that the religious divide between Roman Catholics and Protestants was a contributing factor to The Troubles,

Romania,

Anti-Semitic Romanian Orthodox fascist movements in Romania, such as the Iron Guard and Lăncieri, were allegedly responsible for involvement in the Holocaust, Bucharest pogrom, and political murders during the 1930s.

Russia,

Many Russian political and paramilitary groups combine racism, nationalism, and Russian Orthodox beliefs.

Russian National Unity, a far right ultra-nationalist political party and paramilitary organization, advocates an increased role for the Russian Orthodox Church according to its manifesto. It has been accused of murders, and several terrorist attacks including the bombing of the US Consulate in Ekaterinburg.

Uganda,

The Lord's Resistance Army, a sectarian guerrilla army engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government, has been accused of using child soldiers and committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, porters and sex slaves. It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the Christian Holy Spirit which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations. LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle, but some Islam is mixed into their beliefs as well.

United States,

Beginning in the late nineteenth century, white supremacist Ku Klux Klan members in the Southern United States engaged in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans and other social or ethnic minorities.

During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks, including the Centennial Olympic Park bombing during the 1996 Summer Olympics, were carried out by individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements; including the Aryan Nations and the Lambs of Christ.:105â€“120 A group called Concerned Christians unsuccessfully planned to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:14 pm

Watch your step if you start any sort of self promoting or spamming you will be gone is a flash. Just keeping you aware and informed.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:36 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200497 wrote: Salam Alikom,

Shalom Alikom,

Peace for you

I do not think that the Bible causes terrorism - but I do think that various interpretations of it do. Can the same be said for other Books, I wonder? Bearing in mind that most faiths have some fairly striking similarities, it is unfortunate should this be so.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:45 pm

Bill Sikes;1200520 wrote: I do not think that the Bible causes terrorism - but I do think that various interpretations of it do. Can the same be said for other Books, I wonder? Bearing in mind that most faiths have some fairly striking similarities, it is unfortunate should this be so.

I disagree Bill-----with many of the bible verses, they cannot be interpreted any other way than as stated and would be tantamount to yelling FIRE in a crowded theatre when read by some disillusioned folk.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:49 pm

Bill Sikes;1200520 wrote: I do not think that the Bible causes terrorism - but I do think that various interpretations of it do. Can the same be said for other Books, I wonder? Bearing in mind that most faiths have some fairly striking similarities, it is unfortunate should this be so.

My point was to have a matching point against terroist and not call a nation as terrorists, before we know them and contact them more.............

its just about giving you the feeling you gave the other, may be not on purpose:)

im not here to attack any faith , Im just trying to make a bridge between us

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:50 pm

Lon;1200529 wrote: I disagree Bill-----with many of the bible verses, they cannot be interpreted any other way than as stated and would be tantamount to yelling FIRE in a crowded theatre when read by some disillusioned folk.

Thats what I ment Mr.Lon

thank you for your comment

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:51 pm

CARLA;1200500 wrote: Watch your step if you start any sort of self promoting or spamming you will be gone is a flash. Just keeping you aware and informed.

My point was to have a matching point against terroist and not call a nation as terrorists, before we know them and contact them more.............

its just about giving you the feeling you gave the other, may be not on purpose

im not here to attack any faith , Im just trying to make a bridge between us

Im sorry if my post made you mad , I wish you accept my appolgize

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:59 pm

Lon;1200529 wrote: I disagree Bill-----with many of the bible verses, they cannot be interpreted any other way than as stated

The problems are, perhaps:

In the original fragmented source and the source of it, the translation thereof, and the taking literally of isolated parts of the result.

Gmc will be along in a minute, mark my word.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:01 pm

No need to apologize Muhammad I was concerned as I'm a 1 of several moderators on the forum it is my job to make sure post are appropriate.

[QUOTE]Im sorry if my post made you mad , I wish you accept my appolgize[/QUOTE]

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:10 pm

Does the Bible cause terrorism? Do other religious books? I've heard bits of the Bible twisted right out of context by experts who, taking one select verse, can prove just about anything. Our collections of religious writings are man made, as our religions are also human constructs - at their best inspired human interpretations of something way beyond human comprehension.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:15 pm

AussiePam;1200544 wrote: Does the Bible cause terrorism? Do other religious books? I've heard bits of the Bible twisted right out of context by experts who, taking one select verse, can prove just about anything. Our collections of religious writings are man made, as our religions are also human constructs - at their best inspired human interpretations of something way beyond human comprehension.

thats a great point twisting the verses .........and that was my point , coz we Muslims suffer the same many Christian writers put the verses in Quran out of context to show it bad...........

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:17 pm

Indeed, Muhamed - but I was referring to all religious writings here, not just the Christian Bible.

Your fiancee is beautiful !! Congratulations.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:30 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200546 wrote: thats a great point twisting the verses .........and that was my point , coz we Muslims suffer the same many Christian writers put the verses in Quran out of context to show it bad...........

Firstly hello and welcome.

The ones who suffer most are the victims of those who interpret the Quran for their own end. The terrorists. Christianity has its own "misinterpreters". Thats clear throughout history. The US unfortunately has its own modern day nutcases (I'm sure we have a few too here in the UK) who like to read into the bible, the most preposterous notions that any man could make up. Off the top of my head the Westboro Baptists come to mind

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:31 pm

AussiePam;1200548 wrote: Indeed, Muhamed - but I was referring to all religious writings here, not just the Christian Bible.

Your fiancee is beautiful !! Congratulations.

Thank you

I know that you talked about whole , I wish ur add to discuss about that if u could

thats my e-mail muhamed_stephanie [at]yahoo

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:34 pm

Snowfire;1200551 wrote: Firstly hello and welcome.

The ones who suffer most are the victims of those who interpret the Quran for their own end. The terrorists. Christianity has its own "misinterpreters". Thats clear throughout history. The US unfortunately has its own modern day nutcases (I'm sure we have a few too here in the UK) who like to read into the bible, the most preposterous notions that any man could make up. Off the top of my head the Westboro Baptists come to mind

Terrorism is in all the religions and groups , its about the charachter of the terrorist him self, but some people are called terrosit and they dont deserve that really

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:38 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200553 wrote: Terrorism is in all the religions and groups , its about the charachter of the terrorist him self, but some people are called terrosit and they dont deserve that really

No doubt. It is then the responsibility for those who would like to use the scriptures - of what ever faith - for peaceful means, to ensure the true word is spread and not the fundamentalist, extreme interpretation

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:40 pm

I'm not an atheist, Muhamed. Just wary, these days, of organised religion. I've seen too much bigotry, too much brainwashing, too much manipulation to be anything but wary of what humans do to justify their own agendas, further their power, or try to force on others for whatever reason.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:48 pm

Snowfire;1200554 wrote: No doubt. It is then the responsibility for those who would like to use the scriptures - of what ever faith - for peaceful means, to ensure the true word is spread and not the fundamentalist, extreme interpretation

And thats what I'm trying to do here,

But not all the terorism actions are based on problems with verses , let me say 90% of what the west call terrorists are normal freedom fighters , its a political discussion now , not religiouse , for example , the west doesnt all its media to give you but an Image the goverments wants , I'm sure the problem in Europe isnt like America ,Fox news messed up the American community so far , as we can discuss later , NshAllah

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:48 pm

AussiePam;1200555 wrote: I'm not an atheist, Muhamed. Just wary, these days, of organised religion. I've seen too much bigotry, too much brainwashing, too much manipulation to be anything but wary of what humans do to justify their own agendas, further their power, or try to force on others for whatever reason.

Here, here (or is it hear hear :-2 ) The difference being I am an Athiest

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:03 pm

Would it be fair to say that those that kill women and children indiscriminately (not collateral deaths) or use them as shields to protect themselves in an attempt to further their religious or political agenda, terrorists or freedom fighters.? African Americans of the Civil Rights era were able to accompish much and further their agenda through Peaceful and non Violent means, means of which there is little mention of in religious texts other than "turn the other cheek".

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:41 pm

This thread is in the religious section. So of course it's fine that it's about religion. Muhamed - it's great to have diverse views in ForumGarden. I've been complaining for a while that we seem to have lost some of our diversity, our colour.

You are our newest member, and it's good to have you here. I hope though, that you will find yourself able to join in other threads in other areas. We've had visitors often who come in here with the idea of converting members to their own religion or philosphy of life, who have some personal singleminded political agenda.. quite soon, they find they are just talking to themselves.

Please come and join in the wider life of this Forum. One thing about a Forum like this is that we can all reach out to each other, celebrate our joint humanity, our aspirations. Sometimes this gets trivial, we agree to disagree often too - but it's interesting to swap food recipes, talk about things that interest us (that are not religion or politics based), explore different ways of life.

And your beautiful fiancee - why not ask her if she'd like to join us too. She would be made welcome.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:49 pm

Lon;1200564 wrote: Would it be fair to say that those that kill women and children indiscriminately (not collateral deaths) or use them as shields to protect themselves in an attempt to further their religious or political agenda, terrorists or freedom fighters.?

You meen those....?

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:51 pm

It isnt about the coverting , I promise ,its just about to learn and teach

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:57 pm

The photos do not address my question Abram. Rock throwing is hardly the same as RPG's and AK 47's.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:11 pm

What Im saying is the fact you watch On Media is dependant on who supplies that media, more than on the truth , and I know how the media goes in US ,but sure anyone kill a kid or a woman is a terrorist,

but in my faith for example dieing for a faith case like the next mentioned is fair,

Book 40, Number 4754:

Narrated Sa'id ibn Zayd:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: He who is killed while protecting his property is a martyr, and he who is killed while defending his family, or his blood, or his religion is a martyr.

Sure protecting ur soul,family,land,or faith is a fair case, and protecting the faith is the same as protecting the land if it was Islamic country , like what happened in Kosovo, Bousina , or Palestine now....

If the eairly Muslims had to fight defending their community , the prophet used to advise them what next,

The prophet used to advise the Army those 10 advises,

I advise you ten things| Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly.â€

Quran says that killing One human being for other manslaughter"he was a killer" or corruption in the earth"i.e. rapping",,the person who kill any human being for anything but that,God will punish him as if he killed whole the huminity, and who save One human being, God will reward him, as if he saved whole the huminity.....

For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. (Quran 5:32)

u cant kill a bird for pleasure even in my faith,

Prophet Muhammad prohibited the killing of a bird for the sake of pleasure and not for a specific beneficial need, the Prophet said, â€œAnyone who would kill a bird, this bird would come on Doomsday and say, â€œGod, this person killed me for pleasure and not for benefit." (An-Nasaai)

But fighting defending a fair case following those rules, aint terrorism.....

anyone whoever was did anything out of that should be called terrorist.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:24 pm

OK---let me be more specific. Was the 9/11 Twin Towers atrocity an act of terrorism and was it conducted and carried out by terrorists, and how are we to regard other similar atrocities. In so far as the press is concerned, it is my opinion that they all have their own agendas irrespective of what country news is reported in. Even reading many foreign news papers does not always give one a true insight into what is really happening

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:51 pm

Lon;1200608 wrote: OK---let me be more specific. Was the 9/11 Twin Towers atrocity an act of terrorism and was it conducted and carried out by terrorists, and how are we to regard other similar atrocities. In so far as the press is concerned, it is my opinion that they all have their own agendas irrespective of what country news is reported in. Even reading many foreign news papers does not always give one a true insight into what is really happening

The Event it self is a terrorist Event,Why....??

Because its included the death of civliation , unarmed person, in additon to women and aged.

But who did that.....................................??

Till now, there was no big proof that who done that was Al Qa'ada , while many scientis refers that it was an inside Job,some referred to the goverment, others to the zionist Jews, and others to the Christian terrorist Organization....

No One proved , that it was Al Qa'ada, even Bin Laden in his first tape denied, his first tape before death, ..............Yes

Bin Laden is dead 8 years ago, and the person who made the new tapes are a CIA Bin Laden ..

Do you know Pearlman.........??

Pearlman, the hardcore Jewish Zionist who trashed Muslims and beat them up, grows a beard and suddenly becomes an â€œAl-Qaeda spokesmanâ€ â€“ nothing suspicious here, move along!

Pearlmanâ€™s personal history and the highly suspicious nature in which he suddenly professed his conversion to Islam in a single Internet posting and later appeared on the scene as a spokesman for â€œAl-Qaedaâ€ are all the ingredients needed to draw the conclusion that Pearlman is working as a double agent and most likely for Mossad.

It also emerged that Gadahn was the scriptwriter for the September 11, 2007 Bin Laden tape in which segments of Bin Ladenâ€™s previous statements were hastily slapped together and the contrast altered to make his dubious beard appear darker, an attempt to hoodwink viewers into thinking the tape was new material.

Benazir Bhutto said Osama bin Laden was dead

YouTube - Frost over the World - Benazir Bhutto - 02 Nov 07

And thats how it work nowadays,

Just visit that blog and you will know what I mean,

The Fake 2001 Osama bin Laden Video Tape

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:25 pm

[quote=Abram Is Muslim;1200618]

The Event it self is a terrorist Event,Why....??

Because its included the death of civliation , unarmed person, in additon to women and aged.

But who did that.....................................??

My response

My question is still unanswered. You say the act itself is a terrorist event. Is it fair then to say that those who did the act are terrorists? I don't know who did the act, I just would like to know if you think who ever did it could be called terrorists? Pretty simple question Abram.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:36 pm

Lon;1200624 wrote: [quote=Abram Is Muslim;1200618]

The Event it self is a terrorist Event,Why....??

Because its included the death of civliation , unarmed person, in additon to women and aged.

But who did that.....................................??

My response

My question is still unanswered. You say the act itself is a terrorist event. Is it fair then to say that those who did the act are terrorists? I don't know who did the act, I just would like to know if you think who ever did it could be called terrorists? Pretty simple question Abram.

Oh sorry , thats what I ment by its a terrorist even , sure done by terrorist people, But who...........?? here is the problem , but its a terrorist even done by terrorist, and the killing of 2000 Palestinians civilians in 3 weeks by Israeli strikes is a terorist even done by terrorist people, and any even contain the death of Civilians is a terrorist event , and the persons who do it are terrorist. thats wht I believe in and my faith too....

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:10 pm

I happen to be a Non Believer of any religion, but here's what I do believe. Anyone that intentionally kills women, children, civilians is a terrorist. The key word here is INTENTIONALLY. In armed conflicts, women, children, civilians will often times be killed because they are in close proximity to soldiers, militia or freedom fighters. This of course happened in WW 1, WW 2, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Afganistan and every armed conflict in history. The deaths of innocents in most cases was not the intent of combatants.

The "Rape of Nanking" (1937), "The Holocaust" (WW 2), "Stalin's Purges" though not considered to be terrorist acts was the deliberate slaughter of tens of thousands and in the case of the Holocaust, millions, of innocent people.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:16 pm

Lon;1200629 wrote: I happen to be a Non Believer of any religion, but here's what I do believe. Anyone that intentionally kills women, children, civilians is a terrorist. The key word here is INTENTIONALLY. In armed conflicts, women, children, civilians will often times be killed because they are in close proximity to soldiers, militia or freedom fighters. This of course happened in WW 1, WW 2, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Afganistan and every armed conflict in history. The deaths of innocents in most cases was not the intent of combatants.

The "Rape of Nanking" (1937), "The Holocaust" (WW 2), "Stalin's Purges" though not considered to be terrorist acts was the deliberate slaughter of tens of thousands and in the case of the Holocaust, millions, of innocent people.

I agree with you but with an add, bombing Civilians places in order to attack the other part , even while knowing that a precentage over 50% that Civilians may die, thats terrorist................

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:26 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200631 wrote: I agree with you but with an add, bombing Civilians places in order to attack the other part , even while knowing that a precentage over 50% that Civilians may die, thats terrorist................

If knowing in advance that 50% are civilians that will die I would agree with you, but how do we know for sure that it's known in advance? Because someone tells us so? Would the agressor freely admit that? At any rate I have enjoyed our chat and hope you will stay with us here in the Garden. I am off to watch a DVD movie.

تصبح على الخير

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:01 pm

Abram:-6

Welcome.

It is very difficult to trust the reports by any government no matter who..

Personally I am a Christian pluralist. That is I accept the validity of all of the world's great faiths. I, like you, decry terrorism no matter of what faith. All of the great faiths began on the two tenets of justice and compassion. Both are honourable goals.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:10 pm

Lon;1200638 wrote: تصبح على الخير

:D:D:Dthats cute

:D:D::D:D

u 2 تصبح على خير

Good night sir, I had much fun talking to you:D

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:16 pm

Ted;1200659 wrote: Abram:-6

Welcome.

It is very difficult to trust the reports by any government no matter who..

Personally I am a Christian pluralist. That is I accept the validity of all of the world's great faiths. I, like you, decry terrorism no matter of what faith. All of the great faiths began on the two tenets of justice and compassion. Both are honourable goals.

Shalom

Ted:-6

:DShalom Alikom

Thats My point , because we Muslims suffer much because of that Image made by the CIA

Chockygirl · Post by **Chockygirl** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:14 pm

I think all religious writings can be subjective and skewed to agree with whatever beliefs a person may have.

Chockygirl · Post by **Chockygirl** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:17 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200590 wrote: It isnt about the coverting , I promise ,its just about to learn and teach

Tell me your thoughts about 'suicide bombers',and point out the relevant passage/s in the Quran that sanction this practice.

Chockygirl · Post by **Chockygirl** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:25 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200674 wrote: :DShalom Alikom

Thats My point , because we Muslims suffer much because of that Image made by the CIA

Yes,I agree,that Muslims have been stereotyped badly by the media,and that for the majority who wish to live in peace,the situation is very difficult for them.

Tell me also why quite a few Muslim countries treat their women atrociously?

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:47 am

Chockygirl;1200703 wrote:

Tell me your thoughts about 'suicide bombers',and point out the relevant passage/s in the Quran that sanction this practice.

Look sister,

Quran says that killing One human being for other manslaughter"he was a killer" or corruption in the earth"i.e. rapping",,the person who kill any human being for anything but that,God will punish him as if he killed whole the huminity, and who save One human being, God will reward him, as if he saved whole the huminity.....

For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. (Quran 5:32)

Does Islam allow the freedom in believing in any faith....??

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (Quran 2:256)

Does God ask to kill non believers and terminate them as some priests want you to beleive...??

God ask us to show love and kindness to those non beleivers who doesnt fight us , or get us out of our lands, and kill us.

Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers. (Quran 60:8)

.....................................................................

But what about someOne raised a sword and going to kill you , will you slay him, or get killed........................??, sure you will fight him, and if you had to slay him , u will defending your soul,lets say the Soviet Union came back and went to occupy US , will the Americans fight back and be called freedom fighter..............??

And when the belivers had to fight back ,they should fight them just the same,where ever they were, if they got them out of their land, get them out of it ,can you see equality in punishement... And God says dont fight them in the holy places,but if they started,If they attack you ,then fight them and if you killed who attack you with a weapon, if you killed him defending your life, God wont punish you,its your right to defend your soul..Dont hate the word fight....Fight may save your life, Do you accept that Police fight agianst the Crime....??

Sure it will make our life peaceful , and at the same time we should teach them and educate them, But what if those thiefs have guns....The American cups,have a principal "SHOOT DA HEAD" , if he has a gun , and start acting like he is going to shoot the cup , then its the Cup's right to shoot him,to spread peace,,, Fight for a fair Case will bring peace...But lets say there was no fighting at all , and the gangs spreaded everywhere in the street, killing those , rapping this, stealing those,,,,Where the peace then.....??

Dont tell me , they gonna change , because I already mentioned that the first way to deal is discussion , but Once guns appear, then fighting back is Important to save the peace , and the innoncient souls...

Sanction (to fight) is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged; and Allah is indeed Able to give them victory; (39) Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah - For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily Allah helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty - (Quran 22:40)

And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out[can you see,when they start spreading terrorism], for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.[who fighted you , Belivers, and got you out of your lands, and spreaded the terrorism] (Quran 2:191)

Is fighting an aim or a means in Islam...??

No, the fighting is just to stop their fighting against believers,but if they asked for peace ,then we should accept and live in peace,even if we thought that they just want time,to get ready and fight back,we should trust in God and accept.

And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, is the Hearer, the Knower. (Quran 8:61)

And when you fight them back , fight them just the same,where ever they were, if they got you out of your land, get them out of it ,can you see equality in punishement... And God says dont fight them in the holy places,but if they started,If they attack you ,then fight them and if you killed who attack you with a weapon, if you killedhim defending your life, God wont punish you,its your right to defend your soul..Dont hate the word fight....Fight may save your life, Do you accept that Police fight agianst the Crime....??

Sure it will make our life peaceful , and at the same time we should teach them and educate them, But what if those thiefs have guns....The American cups,have a principal "SHOOT DA HEAD" , if he has a gun , and start acting like he is going to shoot the cup , then its the Cup's right to shoot him,to spread peace,,, Fight for a fair Case will bring peace...But lets say there was no fighting at all , and the gangs spreaded everywhere in the street, killing those , rapping this, stealing those,,,,Where the peace then.....??

Dont tell me , they gonna change , because I already mentioned that the first way to deal is discussion , but Once guns appear, then fighting back is Important to save the peace , and the innoncient souls...

How the Muslim should treat thier enemies....??

Narrated By â€˜Abdullah : During One of the Bettels, a woman was found killed. Allahâ€™s Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

I advise you ten things| Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly.â€

Muslims can fight ober that ,You can fight defending things:-

1-you life : I dont think if someone came towards you with a guy, you will give him your back, and get shoot in silence, you should fight and defend your life.

2-your family : I dont think if a man tried to rap your wife, ur daughter , your mom , I dont think you will be peaceful praying God , not to make her feel pain, and wait on him to finish.

3-your land , I dont think if the Soviet Union came back ,and descided to occupy US, I dont think when you fight them back, you wont call your selvies terrorists, but afreedom fighters, while when the Muslims fight the occuping American Army in Iraq or Aghanistan , they are terrorists .

4-your money , I dont think if someone came to rob you, you will give him your pocket, and the credit cards ,in addition,if you did that , and everybody did that , the thives will increase daily.

5-your religion , like what the Soviet Union was doing in the Soviet empire, they spreaded athiestic with power, and punished believers , if you were captured having religion books , or praying , you go to prison , In this case you have to fight against that union, that prevent the freedom of believing.

And about the suicide bombers

Nothing mentioned in Quran talking about that at all, the Quran talks about fighting defending the souls,families,and land, not bombing the self at all,

Book 40, Number 4754:

Narrated Sa'id ibn Zayd:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: He who is killed while protecting his property is a martyr, and he who is killed while defending his family, or his blood, or his religion is a martyr.

So whats about the Suicide bombers..................??

for Example let me explain it through one case lets focus on the palestinian case for example,

Watch that lil part from an American movie discribes the start of the conflict,

YouTube - A Brief History Of Israel

And here You can watch about the most beloved American girl in all the middle east Rachiel Corrie, who got killed by the Israeli Army ,while her defending a Palesinian family , they harresed her under their poldozer,

YouTube - RACHEL CORRIE "ALWAYS IN OUR HEARTS"

And watch here an Orthdox Rabbi on , Fox News ,talking about the reality of Israel ,

YouTube - Rabbi Weiss on Fox News Against the Creation of Israel

And her you can watch some Orthdox Israeli Jews defending their Muslims brothers against the Zionists Jews controling Israel....

YouTube - Rabbis defend HAMAS and All MUSLIMS and Condems Israel

Watch now , what happenes in Palestine,

YouTube - U.S.-funded Israeli Terrorism: Ethnic Cleansing of Natives

How Israel treat the Palestinians...??

YouTube - Video Israel Doesn't Want You to See

YouTube - ‫Ã˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â´Ã™â€¡Ã™Å Ã˜Â¯ Ã™â€¦Ã˜ÂÃ™â€¦Ã˜Â¯ Ã˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â¯Ã˜Â±Ã˜Â© Ã™â‚¬ Ã˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â£Ã˜Â³Ã˜ÂªÃ˜Â§Ã˜Â° Ã˜Â¹Ã˜Â¨Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â¯Ã™Å Ã˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â¬Ã™Ë†Ã™â€¡Ã˜Â±‬‎

YouTube - ‫Ã˜Â£Ã™Å Ã™â€¡Ã˜Â§ Ã˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ™â€¦Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â±Ã™Ë†Ã™â€ (Ã˜Â£Ã˜Â·Ã™ÂÃ˜Â§Ã™â€ž Ã˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜ÂÃ˜Â¬Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â±Ã˜Â©).‬‎

And here Other examples of what Muslims suffer all over the world,

YouTube - palestine's crisis

Watch here what the Europian Muslims suffered in Bousina,

YouTube - Never Forget Bosnia and Herzegovina 1992-1995

YouTube - Never forget.. Never forgive.. Bosnia

and here , what the Europian Muslim , in Kosovo suffer, by the Christian Serbian,

YouTube - 'Kosovo Crisis' DEC Appeal, Juliet Stevenson, 1999, BBC

The Christian Serbian work against the independence of Kosovo after what they did in it,

YouTube - palestine's crisis

And thats about the price of freedom the Muslims in Chychan payed to get their freedom

YouTube - Chechnya: The Price of Freedom English Subtitles

And watch about Commanding to kill muslims in india - witness by-CNN

YouTube - Commanding to kill muslims in india - witness

Cops rewarded for killing muslims in india

YouTube - Cops rewarded for killing muslims in india

Terminating the Muslims in Kashmir,

YouTube - Agonies of kashmiri MUSLIMS..

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:27 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200626 wrote:

Oh sorry , thats what I ment by its a terrorist even , sure done by terrorist people, But who...........?? here is the problem , but its a terrorist even done by terrorist, and the killing of 2000 Palestinians civilians in 3 weeks by Israeli strikes is a terorist even done by terrorist people, and any even contain the death of Civilians is a terrorist event , and the persons who do it are terrorist. thats wht I believe in and my faith too....

The killing of Palestinians in the Gaza Offensive was not terrorism - it was carried out by the duly authorised army of Israel and should therefore be classified as a war crime.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:44 pm

Bryn Mawr;1200854 wrote: The killing of Palestinians in the Gaza Offensive was not terrorism - it was carried out by the duly authorised army of Israel and should therefore be classified as a war crime.

I agree with you friend

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:46 pm

Chockygirl;1200704 wrote:

Yes,I agree,that Muslims have been stereotyped badly by the media,and that for the majority who wish to live in peace,the situation is very difficult for them.

Tell me also why quite a few Muslim countries treat their women atrociously?

No sister it aint about the religion teachings,

The Hijab or the head scarf is the choice of the Muslim woman ,she even ready to fight for it,

And that Officier in London

And the hijab"Head scarf" is a part of whole the Abrahmic faiths, Judism,Christianty , and Islam.

and we Muslims and Jews only still wear it, nuns only in Christianty wear it ...

1Cor 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

Here french sisters supporting the Muslim girls to get their right in wearing Hijab,

You may see what they wear as a retard thing , but for them it means alot,the girl like want to say no One can see my beauty , I'm not for sale , and when she works somewhere, she is like saying , judge my brain , not my body.....

At the same time , many Muslims feels that the western tradition took the women's dignity away, as I talked about the rapping in US for example , it was almost 13 women getting rapped every hour, and how the women been act at work in many places , and being used by her boss, and and and , many see that as hurting for the woman's being ...

And if u saw any thing bad happening to a woman in any other country, just make sure its about the tradition of the country , and if that happened that means un religiouse person did that , and as u know Islam isnt middle east Only , the Arabs in the middle east r only 20%, and there are 3 Islamic counteries in Europe, and many in Asia, and Africa, its almost 62 country as I remember , and 20 thousands Americans convert every year.......

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:14 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200860 wrote:

No sister it aint about the religion teachings,

The Hijab or the head scarf is the choice of the Muslim woman ,she even ready to fight for it,

And the hijab"Head scarf" is a part of whole the Abrahmic faiths, Judism,Christianty , and Islam.

and we Muslims and Jews only still wear it, nuns only in Christianty wear it ...

1Cor 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

The covering of the head is an interesting subject and the verse you quote is a good starting point to discussing it.

Up until very recently no self respecting married woman in this country would enter a Church with her head uncovered - a hat was always worn. Men and unmarried women went bareheaded.

Then the reasoning changed from the woman being under the dominion of, and showing her respect for God, to the idea that the woman was showing that she was under the dominion of her husband. With the rise of woman's rights and universal suffrage this was a point of contention and women showed their objection to this ideal by refusing to comply - the new meaning over-rode the old and the new was rejected.

On the other side of the equation, I see very little objection to the wearing of the Hajib - the point of contention lies in the wearing of the burkah. This certainly cannot come from 1 Cor: - what is the background within the Quaran?

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:32 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200860 wrote: [CENTER]

You may see what they wear as a retard thing , but for them it means alot,the girl like want to say no One can see my beauty , I'm not for sale , and when she works somewhere, she is like saying , judge my brain , not my body.....

I do see your point but i have noticed that many of these women wear quite heavy eye make up, many people's first attraction to a person is looking at the eyes, by wearing eye make up are they not enhancing their eyes and saying - see my beauty?

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:46 pm

Bryn Mawr;1200878 wrote:

The covering of the head is an interesting subject and the verse you quote is a good starting point to discussing it.

Up until very recently no self respecting married woman in this country would enter a Church with her head uncovered - a hat was always worn. Men and unmarried women went bareheaded.

Then the reasoning changed from the woman being under the dominion of, and showing her respect for God, to the idea that the woman was showing that she was under the dominion of her husband. With the rise of woman's rights and universal suffrage this was a point of contention and women showed their objection to this ideal by refusing to comply - the new meaning over-rode the old and the new was rejected.

On the other side of the equation, I see very little objection to the wearing of the Hajib - the point of contention lies in the wearing of the burkah. This certainly cannot come from 1 Cor: - what is the background within the Quaran?

Thats mentioned in more than a place,

Genesis 24:65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.

SG4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Genesis 24: 63 And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming. 64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. 65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.

The Bible insist in many places in mentioning the covering,

Pet 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

And Paul too , insured that ,

Tim 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:47 pm

buttercup;1200886 wrote: I do see your point but i have noticed that many of these women wear quite heavy eye make up, many people's first attraction to a person is looking at the eyes, by wearing eye make up are they not enhancing their eyes and saying - see my beauty?

Yeah , thats exactly what I ment , thank you for the sweet comment

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:03 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200894 wrote:

Thats mentioned in more than a place,

Genesis 24:65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.

SG4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Genesis 24: 63 And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming. 64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. 65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.

The Bible insist in many places in mentioning the covering,

Pet 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

And Paul too , insured that ,

Tim 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Gen: 24 is very specific - it is a prospective bride on first meeting her husband to be, not a general issue.

The other two are to dress modestly, not to cover yourself completely.

Abram Is Muslim · Post by **Abram Is Muslim** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:35 pm

Bryn Mawr;1200911 wrote: Gen: 24 is very specific - it is a prospective bride on first meeting her husband to be, not a general issue.

The other two are to dress modestly, not to cover yourself completely.

the servants in the past were being,I dont know the word , circumised compleyely ,or capon , that they became no more with sexual desires , and the woman being uncovered completely infront of them was Ok , coz they has no sexual desires, and when she saw the man, who will be her husband, she hided her face , not because he is her futuer husband , but because he is still strange , not married, thats something known in the Jewish culture...

What Ensure that "the Didascalia",

CHAPTER III

An instruction to women, that they should please and honour their husbands alone, caring diligently and wisely for the work of their houses with attention; and that they should not bathe with men; and that they should not adorn themselves and become a cause of stumbling to men and ensnare them; and that they should be chaste and quiet, and not quarrel with their husbands.

[i. 8] And let a woman also be subject to her husband; because the head of the woman is the man, and the head of a man [Eph 5.23; 1Cor 11.3] that walks in the way of justice is Christ.................................[[26]] Thou therefore that art a Christian, (p. 9) do not imitate such women; but if thou wouldst be a faithful woman, please thy husband only. And when thou walkest in the street, cover thy head with thy robe, that by reason of thy veil thy great beauty may be hidden. And adorn not thy natural face; but walk with downcast looks, being veiled.. For it behoves women by a veil of modesty and humility to shew (their) fear of God, for the conversion and the increase of faith of them that are without, (both) of men and women.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:59 pm

Abram Is Muslim;1200936 wrote:

the servants in the past were being,I dont know the word , circumised compleyely ,or capon , that they became no more with sexual desires , and the woman being uncovered completely infront of them was Ok , coz they has no sexual desires, and when she saw the man, who will be her husband, she hided her face , not because he is her future husband , but because he is still strange , not married, thats something known in the Jewish culture...

What Ensure that "the Didascalia",

This was very definitely not the case here - the servant was not a eunuch and it was only where Rebekah came in sight of Issac that she covered her face.

There is nothing in this to suggest that all women should cover their face from all men outside their immediate family - Rebekah had been riding with Abraham's servant's party for weeks through foreign lands uncovered and it was only when she can in sight of her future husband that she covered her face.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:04 pm

Maybe she was just a bit shy??? Kids do that.