Is There A God ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:59 pm

skinsguy;1151995 wrote: Are you referring to the passage from Matthew 5:38 where it talks about "eye for an eye"? I'll have to check to be accurate....it's a long time since i read anything from the bible...... just going by memory. Asta La Vista

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:32 am

Posted by oscar

As gmc said, the bible is contradicting between old and new testement. An eye for an eye or God is all forgiving?

skinsguy;1151995 wrote: Are you referring to the passage from Matthew 5:38 where it talks about "eye for an eye"?

It's a simple question why not just give a simple answer and so spare us the usual sophistry used to try and dodge the issue. I get this vibe from fundamentalist christians that they like to quote the bible as an alternative to actually thinking for themselves.

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:41 am

gmc;1152140 wrote: Posted by oscar

It's a simple question why not just give a simple answer and so spare us the usual sophistry used to try and dodge the issue. I get this vibe from fundamentalist christians that they like to quote the bible as an alternative to actually thinking for themselves.

OK, I'll give you a simple answer. You question is invalid. Would you like for me to elaborate? :rolleyes:

The "eye for an eye" law or the "law of retribution" was meant to carry out equality amongst people. It was not intended to be taken as a vengeful, uncontrollable act. It was intended to discourage cruelty and to put the law into the hands of the state to settle. The only crime that was clear in its punishment was if one takes a life of another, then one must give his life in exchange for the life he took. Other crimes could of meant monetary punishment or whatever compensation to make up for the crime committed against another. In my opinion, this is not God telling us to go out and kill someone because they killed a loved one. It means that the person guilty of the crime should be dealt with by the state. And when Jesus came along in the New Testament, he did not abolish the "eye for an eye" law. Rather, he invited Christians to take it a step further. Which is where we get "turn the other cheek" from. This was not just an attempt to keep things equal and to make sure that those who committed a crime was not unjustly being punished, but that those victims of the crime would not act out in personal revenge.

So in this case, God, being the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, showed us love by not only seeing to it that those who committed crimes were not unjustly punished, but that those who were victims received justice. And, Jesus challenging Christians to "turn the other cheek" carried it further to ensure that there would be no personal revenge. If God was this unjust, vengeful God in the Old Testament, he wouldn't have cared if I killed you for insulting me. This wasn't the case. God was very much a God of love in the Old Testament, as He was in the New Testament.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:51 pm

skinsguy:-6

I guess that is why he ordered the Hebrews to commit war crimes. In Num. 31 God not only told the Hebrews to kill every man woman and child in the land of Canaan but also told the Hebrew soldiers they could keep the virgins for themselves. Some sure understood soldiers.

Shalom

Ted:-6

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:14 pm

Ted;1152537 wrote: skinsguy:-6

I guess that is why he ordered the Hebrews to commit war crimes. In Num. 31 God not only told the Hebrews to kill every man woman and child in the land of Canaan but also told the Hebrew soldiers they could keep the virgins for themselves. Some sure understood soldiers.

Shalom

Ted:-6

If you are going to bring up Numbers, chapter 31, then you need to take a step back and start at Numbers, chapter 25 in order to get the whole story. Numbers 25 tells how the Midianite women enticed the Hebrew men into having sex with them, which was in direct violation of Godâ€™s commandment in Deuteronomy 7:3. This led those Hebrew men into worshipping the false god, Baal, and in return, provoked God into placing a plague on Israel. Iâ€™m sure I donâ€™t need to explain that whole thing about â€œThou shalt not have no other gods before meâ€ thing?

As a result of these events, God instructed the Israelites to â€œVex the Midianites, and smite them; for they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you in the matter of Peor, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of the prince of Midian, their sister, who was slain on the day of the plague in the matter of Peorâ€ (Numbers 25:17-18). When, in Numbers 31, the army brought back the women, it was in direct violation to Godâ€™s order in Numbers 25 to destroy the Midianites, who would lead the Israelites into abandoning their faith in God.

Those inhabitants of Canaan were so wicked, that their Creator could no longer stand by and allow such corruption to continue. God did give them every opportunity to repent of their sins, but they refused. As for the male childrenâ€™s deaths, God in fact spared them from an even worse fate of being subject to serving out the rest of their lives as slaves. Youâ€™re thinking about the death of innocent children which does sound cruel and unfortunate. However, God saw fit to spare those male children by bringing them home to paradise instead of making them suffer as slaves.

And as for those young girls that were taken by the Israelite men for the purpose of rape is baseless. These girls were more than likely under the age of 12 or 13, too young to lead the men of Israel away from God. It makes more sense that these girls were wanted as servants. If any of the men of Israel had taken the young girls for the purpose of rap that would have been sin. God would have punished them for such actions.

God is the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and all-righteous â€œI Amâ€ Who is over all thingsâ€”so He may do whatever He wishes, so long as it is not in violation of His character. However, God does everything for a reason. Sometimes that reason may be unclear to us. In the case of the destruction of people like the Canaanites, Godâ€™s reasoning had to do with His justice.

So to quote Numbers 31 in an attempt to prove that God isnâ€™t a loving God is baseless. It just proves that he is also a God of justice in addition to being a God of love. Now, whether or not you or anybody else agrees with me is not what I am necessarily trying to achieve (but it would be nice.) In fact, this is quite off topic anyway. If weâ€™re going to debate if God is a loving God or not, then we would first have to all agree that He does in fact exist. I believe I have more than explained why I believe that there is a God and that THE God is the God of the bible.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:39 pm

skinsguy:-6

You are stretching credibility beyond reason. Kill all the young children but they are allowed to keep all the young females and those that are still virgins. "Keep them alive for yourselves". I don't believe for one moment that their motives were honourable. Add to that they are to present some of the girls to the temple authorities in tribute to God.

You are telling me that God had the male children killed so they would not suffer the indignity of slavery but that forcing women into slavery is okay. This is justice!?

I'm not sure what kind of a god you believe in but it is definitely not the God that we see manifest in one Jesus of Nazareth. If in Jesus we see the fullness of God then we do not see this demonic side that would slaughter innocent young children.

This is to say nothing about the legality of invading a sovereign territory and keeping it for yourself. Here we are talking genocide. Nice god.

Shalom

Ted:-6

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:45 pm

Yes. And the son I finally have at home is my proof. :-6

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:11 pm

TheNewDG;1153184 wrote: Yes. And the son I finally have at home is my proof. :-6

So The Christian '' God '' Did Come Back . So Does That Mean The Christian Have To Wait Until He Grows Up To Clean Up The Mess That The People Of Earth Made ?

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:15 pm

Daniyal;1153209 wrote: So The Christian '' God '' Did Come Back . So Does That Mean The Christian Have To Wait Until He Grows Up To Clean Up The Mess That The People Of Earth Made ?

It took me a long time to become a mother and I consider it a miracle, so what I am saying is he is proof God exists to me. I didnt mean my son was the Son.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:15 pm

*off topic*

It is a miracle DG has a son, a lovely story of patience and waiting for God's timing.

*go back on topic you all*

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:23 pm

TheNewDG;1153212 wrote: It took me a long time to become a mother and I consider it a miracle, so what I am saying is he is proof God exists to me. I didnt mean my son was the Son.

Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:15 pm

Ted;1153173 wrote: skinsguy:-6

You are stretching credibility beyond reason. Kill all the young children but they are allowed to keep all the young females and those that are still virgins. "Keep them alive for yourselves". I don't believe for one moment that their motives were honourable. Add to that they are to present some of the girls to the temple authorities in tribute to God.

You are telling me that God had the male children killed so they would not suffer the indignity of slavery but that forcing women into slavery is okay. This is justice!?

I'm not sure what kind of a god you believe in but it is definitely not the God that we see manifest in one Jesus of Nazareth. If in Jesus we see the fullness of God then we do not see this demonic side that would slaughter innocent young children.

This is to say nothing about the legality of invading a sovereign territory and keeping it for yourself. Here we are talking genocide. Nice god.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Who's credibility am I stretching?

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:20 pm

TheNewDG;1153212 wrote: It took me a long time to become a mother and I consider it a miracle, so what I am saying is he is proof God exists to me. I didnt mean my son was the Son.

I Would Like To [ Apologize ] For My Remark . Being That SOME People Here Like To Make Smart Remark I Though You Were Making One Also . Wasn't Trying To Be Personal . Just Having Some Fun .

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:27 pm

skinsguy;1153254 wrote: Who's credibility am I stretching? It's interesting SG. I took your posts for discussion tonight with my muslim pals. You state that your god is the god of the bible and there is no other.

I will quote a learned muslim from earlier this evening.

'The world is divided by continents and languages but we are of the same world. There is only one god. His name is dependent on the continent you live in and the language you speak. To the Christians, his name is God of the bible. To muslims, his name is Allah, in China, he may be called by another name. Allah, our name for god accepts all names for him across the world. The Christian faith wants to divide the worlds god and make him their own.'

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:34 pm

skinsguy:-6

The Bible's credibility as well as the credibility of Christianity.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:36 pm

oscar:-6

That is what I have believed for a long time. The First Nations call him "The Great Spirit". It is all the same God. The only thing that varies somewhat is the concept of God; that is how different people see the Divine.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:43 pm

Ted;1153265 wrote: oscar:-6

That is what I have believed for a long time. The First Nations call him "The Great Spirit". It is all the same God. The only thing that varies somewhat is the concept of God; that is how different people see the Divine.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Very true Ted.

Yanni as they say in Turkey :-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:46 pm

oscar:-6

I have heard that there are many Christians in the middle east who also refer to the Divine as Allah and have no problem with that.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:52 pm

Ted;1153271 wrote: oscar:-6

I have heard that there are many Christians in the middle east who also refer to the Divine as Allah and have no problem with that.

Shalom

Ted:-6 Yes, very true. We have a very large mixed community here of muslims that are Turkish, Iranian, Iraqi, Indian, Pakistani etc. In all of these communities, there are Christians and Catholics as well. Religion being a personal choice, however, they do all speak that there is one god but his name is said in different tongues.

Yanni :-6

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:57 pm

oscar;1153259 wrote: It's interesting SG. I took your posts for discussion tonight with my muslim pals. You state that your god is the god of the bible and there is no other.

I will quote a learned muslim from earlier this evening.

'The world is divided by continents and languages but we are of the same world. There is only one god. His name is dependent on the continent you live in and the language you speak. To the Christians, his name is God of the bible. To muslims, his name is Allah, in China, he may be called by another name. Allah, our name for god accepts all names for him across the world. The Christian faith wants to divide the worlds god and make him their own.'

If that is what he wants to believe, he is free to believe that. I don't agree, but we can agree to disagree.

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:05 pm

Ted;1153264 wrote: skinsguy:-6

The Bible's credibility as well as the credibility of Christianity.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Interesting statement.

So Ted, tell me; what exactly would I have had to have said that would have kept the credibility of both the Bible and Christianity intact to satisfy your skepticism? Something tells me no matter how logical and credible I present my beliefs, you and your friends are going to tear them down anyway.

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:07 pm

oscar;1153259 wrote: It's interesting SG. I took your posts for discussion tonight with my muslim pals. You state that your god is the god of the bible and there is no other.

I will quote a learned muslim from earlier this evening.

'The world is divided by continents and languages but we are of the same world. There is only one god. His name is dependent on the continent you live in and the language you speak. To the Christians, his name is God of the bible. To muslims, his name is Allah, in China, he may be called by another name. Allah, our name for god accepts all names for him across the world. The Christian faith wants to divide the worlds god and make him their own.'

So, is he willing to say that Jesus Christ is Savior?

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:20 pm

oscar;1153259 wrote: It's interesting SG. I took your posts for discussion tonight with my muslim pals. You state that your god is the god of the bible and there is no other.

I will quote a learned muslim from earlier this evening.

'The world is divided by continents and languages but we are of the same world. There is only one god. His name is dependent on the continent you live in and the language you speak. To the Christians, his name is God of the bible. To muslims, his name is Allah, in China, he may be called by another name. Allah, our name for god accepts all names for him across the world. The Christian faith wants to divide the worlds god and make him their own.'

I Couldn't Have Said It Better ::yh_clap:yh_clap

:yh_clap

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:24 pm

skinsguy;1153292 wrote: So, is he willing to say that Jesus Christ is Savior?

So I Gather You Believe In The So-called ( Crucifixion ) Yes .

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:39 pm

Daniyal;1153301 wrote: So I Gather You Believe In The So-called ( Crucifixion ) Yes .

I couldn't be a Christian if I didn't.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:03 pm

The Whole Crucifixion Story Was A Play Created By Joseph Flavius Piso , Which I Will Elaborate Further On Within The E mail . He God His Idea From The 2nd Psalms Written By A Chief Magician Upon Aigeleth Shahar A Psalm Of David They Call It '' Anguish And Praise '' They Refer To This As A Psalm Of David . Remember That The Psalms Were Revealed In Jerusalem To King David ...

( 73 Books ) Solomon ( 2Books ) And Asaph ( 12Books ) Koran ( 12 Books )Ethan

( 1Book ) Moses ( 1Book ) And Heman ( 1Book ) Around 1037 B.C.E. This Book Of Songs For What Psalms Mean . Consist Of 150 Different Songs Grouped Into Five Collections .

The First Collections; Psalm 1 - 41

The Second Collection ; Psalms 42 - 47

The Third Collection ; Psalsm 73 - 89

The Fourth Collection ; Psalsm 90 - 106 And

The Fifth Collections ; Psalsm 107 - 150

The Fact That The Book Of Psalms Is Broken Up Into The Five Scrolls Or Sections Is Why They HAave Been Called The Five Books Of David . You Have 5 Books Of The Old Testament Which Are What The Torah Is Made Out . Genesis , Exodus , Leviticus , Number , AndDeutrtonmomy , Then You Have These Psalms Broken Up Into Five Books Also And Many Different Authors Took Part In The WrittegOf These 150 Psalms . , All Of A Suddden This Story , Wich Daites Bacxk That Far . Ennds Up The Nrw Testamem Matthew 27 ; 46 Read Psalms Psalm 22 Yourself And You Will See It , And About The 9th Hour

Jesus Cried With A Loud Voice Saying That Is To Say My God My God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me . Now This Was In The Book Of Matthews In The New Testament . The Book Of Matthews Was Reavealed In 41 A.D Called The Gospel Of The Good News According To Matthew Matthew Himself In The Bible , In Matthews Chapter 9 ; 9 Becomes A Contradiction . Yo - Mawm From # 3117 Daily ; - -- Daily ( By , In The Day - Time . A Common Word For During The Daylight Hours . And Ereb , En - Reb .

( Strong # 06153 From # 6150 Dusk ; -- + Day , Even ( - Ing , Tide ) The Word Night Comes From Strong # 03915 Layil . Lah - Yil ( Isa , 21 ; 11 ) Leyl ; Also Laylah

( Lah ; - Yel - Aw ) ; From The Same As # 3883 ; 03883 Luwl Properly . A Twist ( Away Of The Light ) I.E. Night ; Figuratively Adversity ; --( Mid . ) Night ( Season )

So It Is Clear In The 22nd Psalms That This Person Suffering . This Person Crying Out To God As '' My God '' Is Talking About Something He Does During The Daytime And In The Night Season . And That He Doesn't Ever Stop Crying . In His Own Words He Says '' And I Am Not Silent . This Does Not Match Up With What They Call The Messiah Prophecy '' Which Starts Off In Matthew 27; 46 Which Says And About The 9th Hour Jesus Cried With A Loud Voice . This Could Not Have Been Based On Psalms 22 The Story Of Jesus Christ Crucifixion . Somebody Borrowed The Words From The 22nd Chapter Tells Them What's Going To Happen To Them For Doing That , Talking One Portion And Ignoring The Other To Make Their Own Point ? Notice The Two Quote Number , Revelation 22 And Psalms 22 ,

Revelation 22; 19 , Also In The Book Of Matthew 5 ; 18 , Either That Is A Reference To The Book Of Revelation And Matthew Only Or It Apples To The Whole Bible And That Would Render The Author Of Matthew Guity , But I' m Not Finished As You Read On From Verse 2 To Verse 3 Of Psalms 22 ..

Lets LQQK At Verse 4 Here . This Could Not Be Jesus By The Statement '' Our Father Trusted In Thee , They Trusted And You Dids Deliver Them '' Jesus Would Say Because He Would Be Talking To God '' My Father Our Ancestors Trusted You They Trusted And You Delivered Them '' Speaking Out Of The Hands Or Either The Babylonians Or The Egiptians . But That Is Not What Is Said Here . This Person Here Does Not Identify Himself As The Son Of God And No Way Could That Be Mistaken For Jesus Christ . Psalms 22 ; 5 - 6 . You're

Telling Me That Jesus Christ The Son Of God , In This Prophecy About Himself While Suffering On The Cross Says To God , '' I Am A Worm ... Jesus Calls Himself A Worm Or Maggot , And No Man , Psalms 22; 7 - 8 You See Another Portion That Who Ever Authored The Book Of Matthew Stole . Where Is Your God That He Is Being Challenged ? Matthew 27 ; 40 , Mattew 27; 42 , Mark 15 ; 30 , Mark 15 ; 32

You Get The Hint There Of How That Was Borrowed From Psalms With A Little Addition And A Little Extra Coloring . It Continues On To Say ; Psalms 22 ; 9

Again He Is Speaking To God , Saying You Delivered Me At Birth . Again You Find A Hint Toward Gods Intervention Towards The Birth Of This Individual Or A Special Kind Of Birth By The Hands Of God Like They Do With Jesus Where They Got It From

Psalms 22 ; 10 - 11 , ... Psalms 22 ; 1 , This Was Suppose To Be After The Trouble And He Was On The Cross Getting Ready To Give Up The Ghost HisDarkest Hour ,

Trouble Would Be Near When They Were Approaching The Garden To Get Jesus . That's When Then Would Be Near , When They Were Suppose To Betray Jesus With , A Kiss . Not Trouble Is Near . This Could Not Have Been Jesus Christ . He Then Continues On In Psalms 22; 11 And Say ; For There Is None To Help '' Then In

Psalms 22 ; 12 It States ; Many Bulls Have Compassed Me . Not Compass , But Like Encircle Me . Nowhere In The History Of The New Testament Have Bulls Circled Jesus . The Word There In Hebrew For Bull Is Or Par [ Pawr ] There Is No Record For Jesus Ever Being Surrounded By Bull . Again I Repeat This Is Not Talking About Jesus ! And Don't Tell Me It's Symbolism . Psalms 22; 12 , Note That In Verse 12 It Mentioned A Place Called ''

Bashan '' Under Strong # 01316 Aramic > Bashan Baw - Shawn ' , Which Is A Region East Of The Jordan . This Is Not At Golgotha ( Matthew 27; 33 ) Where The Cross Of Jesus Is Suppose To Be Standing . This Is Another Whole Place Being Mentioned Another Contradiction !

Matthew 27 ; 33 ,

Psalms 22 ; 13 No Animals Surrounded Jesus ' Cross . Opening TheirMouths Like Lions And Roaring And Tearing At Him Which Is What That Verse Implies . Psalms 22; 14 . This Has Nothing To Do With The Crucifixion Of Jesus But You Can See The Different Parts , Where They Stole It From AndIts Alluded To . The Stabbing Of The Side AndThe Wine . But It Is Talking More About Judas Who Was Thrown Off The Cliff And His Body Burst Asunder ( Acts 1; 18 )

This Whole Thing May Come As A Shock With Some Of You . Other Of You Will Say '' This Can't Be True '' ( These People Have What Is Called Tunnel Vision And Blind Faith ) However , In Your Bible According To John 8 ; 32 That Is Free Of The Lies And Misnterpretations . <The Hyped Up Comm,entaries , Alterations , Word Maniplations , Poor Translations . And Out Right Lies To Keep You Mentally In Prison From The Truth

So What Is The Symbolism Of The 9th Hour Or The Crucifixion ?

According To Luke 23 ; 44 - 45 That The Sun / Son Had Died And So There Was Darkness . And LQQK How Many Hours This Lasted For ; Three . The Same Story Of Darkness At Their Death Was Told By The Hindus Of Khrishna , The Buddha , The Greeks Or Hercules The Mexicans Or Quetzalcoatl . And Infinitum ,

Long Before Jesus . When He Die . Jesus Descended Into Hell , Just Like The Earlier Krishna , Zoroaster , Osiris . Horus . Adonis / Tammuz , Bacchus , Hercules , Mercury And So On . He Then Rose From The Dead Like The Earlier Krishna , Buddha , Zoroaster , Adonis / Tammuz , Osiris , Mithra , Hercules , And Balder . Jesus Was Symbolically Crucified At Easter Because This Is The Spring Equinox When The Sun ( Jesus ) Enters . The Astrological Sign Of Aries , The Ram Or The Lamb . The Lamb In The Book Of Revelation Is The Same Symbol As Found In Chapter 22 ; 3

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:28 pm

skinsguy;1153281 wrote: If that is what he wants to believe, he is free to believe that. I don't agree, but we can agree to disagree. SG I am not here with 'my friends' to mock your belief. This is a discussion forum and i am not trying to bait you.

I am genuinly interested in the logic behind your above post. From what you have said, it appears you are totally denouncing what this man believe's. So, can you explain to me why his belief that there is one Universal god who's name depends on language, and your belief, that the only god, is the god of the bible, there-fore he must be Christian only? Again, I ask, why is the bible so credible to you but the Koran is not?

I was on trial very recently, something everyone on this forum knows but to me this gives an interesting example.

Witnesses gave evidence for the defence and the prosecution as in most trials. Out of those witnesses... Some swore on oath on the bible. Two, swore on oath on the Koran. Two refused to swear on any book of god and took an oath of honesty. Can you tell me, why, a court of law that decides the right and wrong of this land would except these varying oaths and gods? Which one of these witnesses should have been dis-counted?

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:49 pm

oscar;1153327 wrote: SG I am not here with 'my friends' to mock your belief. This is a discussion forum and i am not trying to bait you.

I am genuinly interested in the logic behind your above post. From what you have said, it appears you are totally denouncing what this man believe's. So, can you explain to me why his belief that there is one Universal god who's name depends on language, and your belief, that the only god, is the god of the bible, there-fore he must be Christian only? Again, I ask, why is the bible so credible to you but the Koran is not?

I was on trial very recently, something everyone on this forum knows but to me this gives an interesting example.

Witnesses gave evidence for the defence and the prosecution as in most trials. Out of those witnesses... Some swore on oath on the bible. Two, swore on oath on the Koran. Two refused to swear on any book of god and took an oath of honesty. Can you tell me, why, a court of law that decides the right and wrong of this land would except these varying oaths and gods? Which one of these witnesses should have been dis-counted?

[ Some swore on oath on the bible. Two, swore on oath on the Koran. Two refused to swear on any book of god and took an oath of honesty. Can you tell me, why, a court of law that decides the right and wrong of this land would except these varying oaths and gods? Which one of these witnesses should have been dis-counted? ] People Of Religion Are Not Allow To Think ( Out -Side Of Their Belief's And This Is Why They Put Their God / Belief's Above Other's ) . What Funny Some Christian Will Say Muhammad Use Sword To Convert People To Islam , But Never Though About If One Trun The Christian Cross Up Side Down You Have A Sword , And They March Around The World Forceing Democracy / Christianity / On Other Country . Saysing Their God Told Them To Teach The Good News Throughout The World . Think I'm Lying Tomorrow Is Sunday Trun On The T.V. And Checkout The T.V. Ministers .

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:56 pm

Daniyal;1153343 wrote: [ Some swore on oath on the bible. Two, swore on oath on the Koran. Two refused to swear on any book of god and took an oath of honesty. Can you tell me, why, a court of law that decides the right and wrong of this land would except these varying oaths and gods? Which one of these witnesses should have been dis-counted? ] People Of Religion Are Not Allow To Think ( Out -Side Of Their Belief's And This Is Why They Put Their God / Belief's Above Other's ) . What Funny Some Christian Will Say Muhammad Use Sword To Convert People To Islam , But Never Though About If One Trun The Christian Cross Up Side Down You Have A Sword , And They March Around The World Forceing Democracy / Christianity / On Other Country . Saysing Their God Told Them To Teach The Good News Throughout The World . Think I'm Lying Tomorrow Is Sunday Trun On The T.V. And Checkout The T.V. Ministers . It shows that the courts can not accept one belief. They have to accept all men's beliefs. However, this is not what the Christian faith does and why i put this to SG. The Christian faith will only accept jesus Christ as the son of God and his father, the god of the Bible. This makes Christian faith some-what tyrannical and is responsible for holy wars and crusades. To conquer, divide and empower in the name of god.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:09 pm

oscar;1153350 wrote: It shows that the courts can not accept one belief. They have to accept all men's beliefs. However, this is not what the Christian faith does and why i put this to SG. The Christian faith will only accept jesus Christ as the son of God and his father, the god of the Bible. This makes Christian faith some-what tyrannical and is responsible for holy wars and crusades. To conquer, divide and empower in the name of god.

I Overstand I Know What Your Saying Believe Me . I Careless What People Believe Accept When It Come To Religion , If That's Their Thing So Be It . But Don't Come With My God Is Above Other's People God , When They Themselves Can't Realize They Could Have Be Born Muslims Etc Etc Themselves .

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:00 pm

oscar:-6

It is only some of Christianity that practices exclusivism. There is no place within the Christian faith for such a view as exclusivism. That is an abomination of the very nature and teachings of Jesus. Jesus did not teach exclusivism. It like fundamentalism is an invented child of the reformation.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:16 pm

Daniyal;1153362 wrote: I Overstand I Know What Your Saying Believe Me . I Careless What People Believe Accept When It Come To Religion , If That's Their Thing So Be It . But Don't Come With My God Is Above Other's People God , When They Themselves Can't Realize They Could Have Be Born Muslims Etc Etc Themselves . All of us could be born under any nationality, continent or language. 'There for the grace of God, Go I'.

;);)

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:19 pm

Ted;1153423 wrote: oscar:-6

It is only some of Christianity that practices exclusivism. There is no place within the Christian faith for such a view as exclusivism. That is an abomination of the very nature and teachings of Jesus. Jesus did not teach exclusivism. It like fundamentalism is an invented child of the reformation.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Yes, your right Ted. It's only some of Christianity that practises exclusivism as in radical islamic terrorism.

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:01 pm

oscar;1153327 wrote: SG I am not here with 'my friends' to mock your belief. This is a discussion forum and i am not trying to bait you.

I am genuinly interested in the logic behind your above post. From what you have said, it appears you are totally denouncing what this man believe's. So, can you explain to me why his belief that there is one Universal god who's name depends on language, and your belief, that the only god, is the god of the bible, there-fore he must be Christian only? Again, I ask, why is the bible so credible to you but the Koran is not?

I was on trial very recently, something everyone on this forum knows but to me this gives an interesting example.

Witnesses gave evidence for the defence and the prosecution as in most trials. Out of those witnesses... Some swore on oath on the bible. Two, swore on oath on the Koran. Two refused to swear on any book of god and took an oath of honesty. Can you tell me, why, a court of law that decides the right and wrong of this land would except these varying oaths and gods? Which one of these witnesses should have been dis-counted?

Because it gives me peace, Oscar. It's as simple as that. My days of looking for answers and second guessing myself are over. I found my true peace in Jesus Christ. I appreciate life so much more. I look for the good in everybody, and I have a burden of love for those who hate me.

If there are others here who have found that type of peace in something else, more power to ya! But there are those who will spend their whole lives, searching for answers, searching for the same peace in other things, yet never find it. Some spend their whole lives attempting to refute the bible, searching for fallacies and contradictions, putting down those who believe in Jesus Christ, and for what? They never find those answers...they never find peace.

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:11 pm

Daniyal;1153343 wrote: People Of Religion Are Not Allow To Think ( Out -Side Of Their Belief's And This Is Why They Put Their God / Belief's Above Other's )

This is completely untrue. There is no force or person who tells me what to think and how to think. I have questioned my faith many times in the past. I have thought about life in the atheistic view. I have thought about life through the eyes of another religion. I have questioned things in my pastor's sermons. I have searched for answers outside of the bible. Each time, the answers led me back to the same place...Jesus Christ. My God is all that I need for my life. His love for me is sufficient. Why would I need to consider any other options, when I get all I need from my own faith? I'm not sitting here comparing "gods". The question was raised, why did I choose the God of the bible. It's simply the fact that He gives me peace. I've found what it is I was looking for.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:16 pm

skinsguy;1153529 wrote: Because it gives me peace, Oscar. It's as simple as that. My days of looking for answers and second guessing myself are over. I found my true peace in Jesus Christ. I appreciate life so much more. I look for the good in everybody, and I have a burden of love for those who hate me.

If there are others here who have found that type of peace in something else, more power to ya! But there are those who will spend their whole lives, searching for answers, searching for the same peace in other things, yet never find it. Some spend their whole lives attempting to refute the bible, searching for fallacies and contradictions, putting down those who believe in Jesus Christ, and for what? They never find those answers...they never find peace. I appreciate your answer and as i said in a previous post that as long as anyone finds comfort in who or what they worship, that's fine by me. Unfortunaely, although i have not refered to the bible for many years, i found too many contradictions when i was exploring the bible at a younger age. I believe Jesus Christ walked this earth but i believe he was a mere mortal. I wonder if Jesus Christ came to earth in 2010 would he be locked up as a delusionist? Please don't think i am insulting you, i am trying to be logical.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:29 am

skinsguy;1153533 wrote: This is completely untrue. There is no force or person who tells me what to think and how to think. I have questioned my faith many times in the past. I have thought about life in the atheistic view. I have thought about life through the eyes of another religion. I have questioned things in my pastor's sermons. I have searched for answers outside of the bible. Each time, the answers led me back to the same place...Jesus Christ. My God is all that I need for my life. His love for me is sufficient. Why would I need to consider any other options, when I get all I need from my own faith? I'm not sitting here comparing "gods". The question was raised, why did I choose the God of the bible. It's simply the fact that He gives me peace. I've found what it is I was looking for.

Let's Be Real Here Ok No Disrespect . Your Taught About Faith / Belief / Believe / Salvation This Is The Key To Most Religion . Your Said [ I have thought about life through the eyes of another religion] ... If You Are Truthful Then You Should Know Islam Is Not That Much diffrent Then Christianity . And I Doubt That You're Really Questioning Your Minister / Teacher . If I May Ask What Type Of Question Do You Ask . Other Then Salvation / What You Should Believe ?

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:33 am

oscar;1153444 wrote: All of us could be born under any nationality, continent or language. 'There for the grace of God, Go I'.

;);)

Now That The Truth :yh_clap:yh_clap:yh_clap

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:40 am

oscar;1153534 wrote: I appreciate your answer and as i said in a previous post that as long as anyone finds comfort in who or what they worship, that's fine by me. Unfortunaely, although i have not refered to the bible for many years, i found too many contradictions when i was exploring the bible at a younger age. I believe Jesus Christ walked this earth but i believe he was a mere mortal. I wonder if Jesus Christ came to earth in 2010 would he be locked up as a delusionist? Please don't think i am insulting you, i am trying to be logical.

That's a very valid question, Oscar. And I don't take offense to what you said. A lot of it, we will have to agree to disagree. If Jesus Christ came back to the earth in 2010, and people knew it was Him, then I doubt he would be locked up for being delusional. There would probably be a lot more people in churches, since they would realize that Jesus Christ would be coming back from the dead would finally be the proof that miracles do happen, and they probably would find it difficult to deny him at that point.

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:46 am

Daniyal;1153607 wrote: Let's Be Real Here Ok No Disrespect . Your Taught About Faith / Belief / Believe / Salvation This Is The Key To Most Religion . Your Said [ I have thought about life through the eyes of another religion] ... If You Are Truthful Then You Should Know Islam Is Not That Much diffrent Then Christianity . And I Doubt That You're Really Questioning Your Minister / Teacher . If I May Ask What Type Of Question Do You Ask . Other Then Salvation / What You Should Believe ?

Does Islam believe that Jesus Christ is a divinity. That he was crucified, but rose again three days later? Does it believe that the only way to God is through Jesus Christ? If they don't believe that, then Islam is completely different from Christianity.

And please don't say that you doubt that I have questioned my minister. That says to me that you're trying your best to catch me in a lie. And if this is what you're trying to do, then you obviously don't have the peace within your heart like I do. And that, again, is enough for me not to choose Islam.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:36 am

skinsguy;1153645 wrote: Does Islam believe that Jesus Christ is a divinity. That he was crucified, but rose again three days later? Does it believe that the only way to God is through Jesus Christ? If they don't believe that, then Islam is completely different from Christianity.

And please don't say that you doubt that I have questioned my minister. That says to me that you're trying your best to catch me in a lie. And if this is what you're trying to do, then you obviously don't have the peace within your heart like I do. And that, again, is enough for me not to choose Islam.

Please Don't Come With That I Don't Have Peace In My Heart Because I Ask You A Question . So What You Saying That Just Because Muslims Don't Believe Jesus Dies On The Cross They're Wrong Right . I Don't Believe / Accept Yashu'a Die On The Cross Either And In My Post I Show You Why [ The Whole Crucifixion Story Was A Play Created By Joseph Flavius Piso ,] And If You Have Read The Qur'aan Your Would Know Why The Don't Accept It . So You Can Get Back With Me When You Ask Your Minister Ok . Oh By The Way Please Use Chapter And Verse From (Your Bible Explaining Why They Don't Accept Why They Don't Believe Jesus Die On The Cross Ok .

Mean While Check This Out ;

( Jesus On The Cross ? )

Ans ; There is no type of Nail That They Could Have used to Support A Man Like Jesus' Size , Without Ripping Through His , Plams Or Shattering His Bones. Again Jesus was Not Crucified . It's A Myth . A Play Created By Joseph Flavius. But The kind of Nailsused by Romans Which Measure 8 To 10 Inches . It was Hammered Through The Hands And Feet Of The Accused Victimes Sentenced To Death . In Order For The Weight Of The Body To Be Supported . Shroudist State That The Nail Had To Pass Through The Wrist In What Is Called The Despot's Space , A Nail This Size WouldShatter Someone's Wrist Bones , Then What Suport Do You Think They Would Have Had Then ? Jesus Should Have Been Dead Within An Hour, Because His Diaphram Would Have Collapes DueTo His Dead Weight Body . His Diaphram Could Have Not Supported His Body Weight . Note The Cruxifixion Lasted For Three Hours Before He Dies .

Ques ; Was Yashu'a ( Jesus ) To Carry A Tree ?

Ans ; According To The New Testament , In Numerous Places. It Says Jesus Was Hung On Tree .

Acts 5 ; 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree.

Acts10 ; 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree

1Peter 2 ; 24 who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed

John 19 ; 17 They took Jesus therefore: and he went out, bearing the cross for himself, unto the place called The place of a skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha

Carry , To Put Upon One's Self ( Something ) To Be Carried And The Word Being Used For '' Cross '' In Greek Staurous, Meaning '' An Upright Stake '' From The Root Word Histemi , Meaning '' To Cause Or MakeStand'' .

According To The New Encylopedia Britannica Volume 19 Published By Helen Hemingway , Bentica On Page 918 , Concerning The Weight Of Wood , It Says ;

Common Temperate Climate Woods Range In Weight , From About 300 To 900 Kilograms Per Cubic Metre , ( 20 - 55 Pounds Per Cubic Foot ) In Air - Dry Condition , But Lighter And Heavier Woods Exist In The Tropics , ( 80 - 1 ,300 Kilogram Per Pubic Metre On 10 - 80 Pounds Per Cubic Foot ) , Such As Balsa And Lignum Vitae , Respectively . ;... The Lightest Kind Of Wood Is Balsa Wood , Which Is Used Making Model Airplanes , Life Rafts And Buoys . That Kind Of Wood Could Not Have Been Used , Because The Lightest Kind Of Wood Weighs Up To 20Lbs . Per Cubic Foot . A Cross Made Our Of Balsa Could Not Have Supported Yashua's ( Jesus ) Weight Not If You Say It Was A Heavier Kind Of Wood , Like Oak , That Was Used , When You Would Have To Take Into Consideration That The Wood Would Have Been To Heavy For Yashu'a ( Jesus ) , Who Was Beaten And Weakened

Matthew 26 ; 67 Then did they spit in his face and buffet him: and some smote him with the palms of their hands

Matthew 27 ; 26 Then released he unto them Barabbas; but Jesus he scourged and delivered to be crucified.

Matthew 27 ; 30 And they spat upon him, and took the reed and smote him on the head.

Mark 15 ; 19 And they smote his head with a reed, and spat upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.

Luke 22 ; 63 And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and beat him

The Greek Word Used For '' Smote '' Is Tupto Meaning '' Smite , Beat , Strike , Wound , '' And The Greek Word Used For '' Smote'' In Luke 22 ; 63 Is Dero Meaning '' To Beat , Smite , To Flay , To Skin , To Beat , Thrash . The Greek Word Used For '' Scourged '' Is Phragello Meaning '' To Whip . '' After Being Beaten And Skinned , He Was Too Weak To Carry A Corss 18 Feet 6 Inches Tall , With A Cross Beam Of 6 Feet 6 Inches Long . Now Wood Is Cut In 2x4 , 4x4 And So On , Whatever Size Wood Is Used For Building . With Its Length Varying According To The Length That Is Needed . In Order For The Cross To Have Been Strong Enough To Hold A Man Of His Size It Would Have Had To Have Been Thicker Than A 2X4 Or

4x4 To Support His Weight . How Was It Possible For Yashua Or Jesus . Who Had Been Straved And Beaten , To Have Carried A Tree - Sized Cross 6'4'' Inches Wide And 18'2 Inches Tall . Or An Actual Tree To Galgotha Matthew 27 ; 33 ?

Ques ; How Could Yashua ( Jesus ) Carry The Cross To Calvary , When According To The Holy Bible He Was Starved First , Then Beaten , Then Made To Bear His Own Cross ?

According To John 19 ; 17 Yashua ( Jesus ) Carried His Own Cross .

John 19 ; 17 They took Jesus therefore: and he went out, bearing the cross for himself, unto the place called The place of a skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha:

It Is Clear That According To John 19 ; 17 Yashua Bared His Own Cross , Even If Simeon ( 17 B.C. - 46 A.D. ) Had A Good Night's Sleep And Ate A Good Meal The Next Day . He Still Wouldn't Have The Strength To Carry A Cross Of That Size And Weight Yashua And Simeon Together Couldn't Even Carry The Cross All The Way To Calvary , ( According To '' Jerusalem '' , By Colin Thuborn , On Page 91 , It States ; The Traditional Route Of Christ To Calvary Begins At The Convent Of The Sisters Of Zion , Near The Ruins Of Antonia -- The Fortress Raised By Herod On A Scarp Above The Temple . ) .

Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.

Then Made To Carry The Cross John 19 ; 17 . So , Even With The Help Of Simeon . It Would Have Taken Samson To Carry A Cross That Size , Weight , And Distance .

Overstand ?

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:40 am

The Messiah Jesus Is Glorified In The Qur'an More Than Any Other Prophet. He Is Mentioned In 15 Chapters. One Of The More Common Titles For The Messiah Jesus Is '' Son Of Mary ''. He Is Mentioned 15 Times As Isa Ibn Maryam ( Jesus , Son Of Mary ) ; 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 5 ; 49 , 5 ; 81 , 5 ; 113 , 5 ; 115 , 5 ; 117 , 5 ; 119 , 19 ; 34 , 33 ; 7 , 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 ,

Fourteen times as the Son of Mary , Ibn Maryam ) alone or with some other title; 5 ; 19 ( twice ), 49 ; 78 , 113 , 115 , 117 , 119 , 9 ; 31 , 19 ; 34 , 23 ; 50 , 43 ; 57 , 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 .

Once as the sign of the hour -- Alamus Saa'ati ) ; 43 ; 61

Eleven times as Rasuwl , 2 ; 87 , 3 ; 49 , 4 ; 157 , 5 ; 78 , 57 ; 27 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 52 - 53 , 4 ; 171 , 5 ; 114 , 61 ; 6 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned on the Qur'an nine times named in conjuction with other Prophets ; 2; 136 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 5 ; 81 , 33 ; 7 , 42 ; 13 , 57 ; 26 - 27 , 6 ; 85 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as Isa in the Qur'an 10 times; 2 ; 136 , 3 ; 51 , 3 ; 54 , 3 ; 59 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 6 ; 85 , 42 ; 13 , 19 ; 34 , 43 ; 63 ,

The Messiah Jesus occurs in connection with Ar Ruhu -- as often as five times in the Qur'an. 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 5 ; 110 , 4 ; 171 , 21 ; 91 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a witness Shahidan - in the Qur'an twice -- 4 ; 159 , 5 ; 120 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as blessed Mubaarakan --- in the Qur'an once ; 19 ; 31 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as illustrious Wajihan --- in the Qur'an once 3 ; 45

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - Ayat - -- in the Qur'an four times; 3 ; 48 , 19 ; 21 , 21 ; 91 , 23 ; 50 ..

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - mercy - Rahmah -- in the Qur'an once ; 19 ; 21 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - a statement of the truth - Qawlal -- Haqqi ) ; 19 ; 34 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as of those near ( to Allah ) , Min Al Muqarrabiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as of the righteous - Min As Salihiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as an example -- Mathal ) in the Qur'an twice ; 43 ; 57 , 43 ; 59 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a simulator -- Mathalan -- in the Qur'an once 3 ; 59 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as Al Masih -- the Messiah ) 11 times in the once ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 4 ; 172 , 5 ; 19 ( twice ) 5 ; 75 ( twice ) 5 ; 78 , 9 ; 30 , 9 ; 31 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as slave -- Abd --- three times in the Qur'an . 4 ; 172 , 19 ; 30 , 43 ; 59 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned once as a prophet -- Nabian ); 19 ; 30

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a word --- Kalima -- in the Qur'an twice ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 171 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as be and he became --- Kuwn Fayakuwn ) in the Qur'an once 3 ; 59

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as her son --- Ibnaha in the Qur'an once . 21 ; 91 . The Prophet Muhammad Is Mentioned Four Times 48 ; 29 ; 3 ; 144 ; 33 ; 40 ; 47 ; 2

Jesus Has Many Titles In The Koran . Now Stating That Muhammad Is '' The Rasuwl Allah '' , And You So-called Muslims Base Your Belief Around His Teaching , Wouldn't It Be Out Of Mere Respect That You Bse Your Book On Jesus Christ Throughout Your Text ? Moses Is Spoken Of In The Koran ; Gabriel ( Koran 2 ; 97 - 98 ) , David ( Koran 6 ; 84 , 21 ; 78 - 80 ) , Jacob ( Koran 2 ; 132 - 133 ) , And Many Other Prophets ; But Why Would You Dedicate The Whole 19th Chapter To Jesus ' Mother ( The Chapter Of Mary ) , And A Whole Chapter To The Birth Of Jesus ( The 4th Chapter Of The Women ) ? And I Can Go On . While On The Other Hand , Basically , Only One Chapter Is Dedicated To Muhammad ( Chapter 47 Of Muhammad ) . NoWhere In The Koran Is Muhammad Called A Savior Or Messiah. In Fact, Muslims Compare Moses And Muhammad And Not Muhammad And Jesus Which Makes Jesus On A Higher Level.

What I Mean By This Is , If You Make A Comparison Of How The Koran Talks About Moses And Muhammad You Will See How Jesus Is Praised More Than Muhammad Himself. The Following Chart Will Compare The Likeness Of These Men And Show You How Jesus Is Exalted Above Moses And Muhammad . According To Them ;

Muhammad --- Was only A Man / Born Of An Earthly Father And Mother / He Married / He Did Not Die For Everyone's Sins / Has A Spirit Like A Norman Person / He Got His Calling At The Age Of 40 / He Had Children / Was A Prophet / Received Book Himself Koran / Died A Natural Death / Body Was Put In The Ground ....

Moses --- Was only A Man / Born Of An Earthly Father And Mother / He Married / He Did Not Die For Everyone's Sins / Has A Spirit Like A Norman Person / He Got His Calling At The Age Of 40 /He Had Children / Was A Prophet / Received Book Himself , Torah / Died A Natural Death / Body Was Put In The Ground ....

Jesus ---- Is A God / No Earthly Father Mentioned / Did Not Marry / Died For Everyone's Sins / His Spirit Came Down Directly From God / Started His Mission At Birth / He Had No Children / Was A Messiah / Did Not Receive Book Himself / Did Not Die A Natural Death / Was Taken Up By Allah .

When You Put All Of These Comparisons Together , They Make Jesus Something Divine; And For Further Proof, In Your Own Koran 2 ; 253 , It Clearly States That Jesus Is Exalted Over Other Prophets.

Koran 2 ; 253 ( In Arabic ) TILKA ( THAT'S ) AL RUSUL ( THE ONES SENT FADDALNAA ( WE WERE MORE PLEASED ) BADAHUM ( WITH SOME OF THEM ) ALA ( WITH ) NADIN ( OTHERS ) MINHUM ( FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( TO WHOM ) KALLAMA ( SPOKE ) AL - LAH ) ( THE SOURCE ) WA ( AND ) RAFA-A ( HE RAISED ) BADAHUM ( SOME OF THEM ) DARAJAAT ( IN RANKS ) WA ( AND ) AATAYNAA ( WE GAVE ) EESAA ( JESUS ) INBA ( DON OF ( MARYAM ( MARYAM ) AL BAYYINAAT ) THE CLEAR EVIDENCES ) WA ( AND ) AYYADNAAHU ) AND WE SUPPORTED , AIDED HIM ) BE ROOH ( BY WAY OF THE SOUL ) AL QUDUS ( THE HOLY ) WA ( AND ) LOW ( IF ) SHAA ( PLEASES ) AL - LAH ( THE SOURCE ) MAA ( WOULD NEVER ) AQTATALA ( FOUGHT TO KILL ) AL - LAZEENA ( THOSE WHO ) MIN ( FROM AMONGST ) BADIHIM ) SOME OF THEM ) MIN ( FROM ) NADIMAA ) AFTERWARDS ) JAA-ATHUM ( HAS COME TO THEM ) AL BAYYINAAT ( THE CLEAR EVIDENCES ) WA ( AND ) LAAKIN ( BUT ) AKHTALAFOO ( DIFFERED ) FAMINHUM ( SO THERE FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( ARE THOSE ) AMANA ( ARE FAITHFUL ) WA ( AND ) MINHUM ( FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( THOSE WHO ) KAFARA ( WHO CONCEAL WHAT THEY KNOW TO BE TRUE ) WA ( AND ) LOW ( IF ) SHAA ( PLEASES ) AL -LAH ( THE SOURCE ) MAA ( WOULD NEVER ) AQTATALOO ( FOUGHT TO KILL ) WA ( AND ) LAAKIN ( BUT ) AL - LAH ( THE SOURCE ) YAF - AL ( HE DOES ) MAA ( WHAT ) YUREED ( HE WANTS TO DO ) That's How It Is With The Ones Sent ; We The Elohim Were More Pleased With Some Than Others . There Were Some To Whom Allah Spoke , And He Raised Some Of Them In Ranks, And We The Elohim Gave Jesus , Son Of Mary , The Criteria Of Clear Evidence And Supported Him By Way Of The Holy Soul , Gabriel , One Who Come From El , Nusku .... And If It Pleased The Source , Those After Them Would Never Have Fought To Kill Amongst Themselves After The Clear Evidences Had Come To Them , But They Had Differences. And Of Them There Were Some Who Had Faith In It; While Others O Them Are Those Who Conceal What They Know To Be The Truth. And If It Pleased The Source They Would Have Never Fought To Kill Amongst Themselves , But It Is Up To Allah Because He Does What He Wants To Do .

And With These Comparisins The Proof That Moses And Muhammad Were The Same Kind Of Prophet According To Them And That Jesus Was Not Like Them Raised Jesus In Ranks Above Them As It Says In Koran 2 ; 253 . Because All Of The Similarities Between Moses And Muhammad Were Natural Orders By The Laws Of God Namely , Marriage , Natural Birth By Mother And Father And Natural Deaths. If These Are Laws Of God And Jesus Didn't Do Them , Then Jesus Was Above The LAaw Of God Or Was A God. So To Avoid This Reality Muslims Will Say That The Whole Bible Was Tampered With . So You Tell Me, Mr. Muhammadan , Shi-ite , Ahmadiyite, Wahbai , Or Any Other Sect Of Moslems Which You Name Yourselves, According To Your Belief, Is Jesus The God Of The Koran? The Reason Why I Ask This Question Is Because Out Of All The Thousands Of Religion All Over The Planet Earth , Muslims Seem Set On Trying To Defeat The Power Of Christianity And Its Ability To Convert People World Wide.

The Koran Seems To Center Around Conflicts With Pagan Tribes Of Arabia , But Really Never Addresses Their Religious Beliefs, Or The Characters Of Their Religion. However , Whole Chapters Are Devoted To Christianity , Almost Every Personality In Christianity Is Found In The Koran . Muslims Emulate The Ethiopian Falasha And Coptic Christians In Their Dress. They Take Their Prayer Beads From The Rosaies Of The Catholic Church. They Take Their Prostation In Peayer From The Falasha Tribes; Their Fasting From Christianity . Their Not Eating Pork From Judaism; Their Concept Of Pilgrimage To A Holy Shrine From Christianity And Judaism. Jesus Is The Main Charactr Of The Koran. In Fact , Most Of The Muslims Scholars, Such As Ahmed Deedat , Dr. Jamal Badawi , Dr. Irving , Dr. Gary Miller, To Mention A Few , Constantly Quote From The Christian Bible ( The Book Of St. John Chapter 16 ; 7 And Refer To Their Prophet Mustafa Muhammad Al Amin Born In The Year 570 A.D. Died In The Year 632 A.D. In Arabia ,

As This Comforter . Yet , They Claim That The Bible Is Tampered With. It Is About Time That The Muslim World Acknowledges That Allah Of The Koran Is The Father Of Jesus ; Just As In Christianoity Not By Conception , But By Spirit . And That They Are Nothing More Than A Modern Day Sect Of Christians And Should Prepare Themselves For The Coming Of The Messiah

This Is What I Mean By Researching On Your Own .

Why Were You Taught The Above By Your Minters / Teacher ?

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:49 am

In the case of The Quran which was considered by The Orthodox the uncreated word of Allah , They believe that Jesus Is Not Allah ; Knoran 5 ; 17 '' It's Blasphemy Indeed Are Those That Say That Allah Is Christ The Son Of Mary ... Now if you look at The Koran in the same chapter 5 Verse 72 ( 5 ; 72 ) And I Quote '' They Do Blaspheme Who Say ; Allah Is Christ The Son Of Mary , , But said Christ ; O children of Isreal ! Worship Allah , My lord and your lord . Whoever joins other Gods with Allah - Allah will forbid him the garden , And the fire will be his abode . There will for the wrong - doers be no one to help . '' Now read Verse 73 of the same chapter And I Quote ; '' The Do Blaspheme Who Say Allah Is One Of Three In A Trinity ; For There Is Nod God Except One God . If They Desist Not From Their Word ( Of Blasphemy ) , Verily A Grievous Penalty Will Befall The Basphemers Among Them , '' It is clear in Verse 72 That the claim is against those who say that Allah Is Christ The Son Of Mary .

Jesus Is Not The Son Of God ( Koran 9 ; 30 , 31 ) And I Quote ; The Jews Call 'Uzayr A Son Of Allah And The Christians Call Christ The Son Of Allah . That is saying from their mouth ; ( In This ) They but initiate what The Unbeliever of old used to say . Allah's Curse Be On Them ; How they are deluded away from the truth ! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah . And ( They Take As Their Lord ) Christ , The Son Of Mary ; Yet There Were Commanded To Worship But One Allah ; There Is No God But He , Praise And Glory To Him ; ( Far Is He ) From Having The Partners They Associate ( With Him ) .

Most Muslim Scholars will use only Koran 9 ; 30 To give the impression that all Christians are saying afain that Jesus Is The Only Son Of God . They avoid the 31 Verse because it is clear that this verse is talking to those who worship their Priests and their Anchorites to be their Lords and the Arabic word being used is a Plural of the word '' Lord '' Rabb being used throughout The Koran For Allah . The word is Arbaabaan , Which is plural for Rabb and that these men are being compared to Allah . Then it adds '' And Take Christ The Son Of Mary , '' This ignorance has already been addressed in this book and it was made clear that Jesus himself , According To Matthew 22 ; 37 , Koran 9 ; 31 In Part Says And I Quote ; '' To Worship But One Allah , There Is No Allah But He , Praise And Glory To Him '' .

The Koran exalts Jesus above all the other Prophets however , Muhammad is the suppose Prophet of Islam . Since The Muhammadism faith is the last Monotheistic Religion It Copies Its Koranic Text From The Bible .

* The Koran Says ;

* Issa is actually Higher than all the other Prophets . Koran 2 ; 253

* Issa coming confirms the laws that had come before him Koran 5 ; 46 , 61 ; 6

* Issa conception is supernatural making him a unique individual Koran 3 ; 45 , 19 ; 16 - 20 .

* Miracles accompany him Koran 19 ; 21 , 21 ; 91 .

* Issa conquered death and will come at the end of the world . Koran 3 ; 55 .

* The Koran says Issa is a Messenger , A Prophet , The word of Allah , And the Spirit of Allah , And the Messiah . Koran 3 ; 49 , 19 ; 30 .

* Koran 3 ; 42 Says Maryam , Mother Of Isa , Was a noble woman , Chosen above other women in the world .

* Koran 16 ; 51 , 3 ; 26 Says there is more than one Allah .

* Koran Says The Spirit of Allah came into Jesus .

* Issa is The Saviour .

* The Bible Says ;

* Agreed - Jesus is higher than all of the other prophets .

* Agreed - Prophecy is fulfilled .

* Agreed - Conception is supernatural making him an unique individual Matthew 1 ; 20

* Miracles accompany him Matthew 6 ; 25 ; Luke 23 ; 8 ; John 4 ; 54 ,

* Agreed - Jesus conquered death and will come at the end of the world .

* Agreed - Jesus is a messenger , And a prophet , And the word of Thehos , And the spirit of Thehos and the messiah .

* Agree - Mary , Mother of Jesus , Was a noble woman .

* Agree - That scriptures use the name of Thehos in plural .

* Agree - The spirit of Thehos came into Jesus

* Agreed - Jesus is the saviour .

Let Me Show You How Jesus Is Divine According To The Koran .

Islam Claims Jesus Is Not Divine According To Koran 2 ; 253 ;

What Does The Muslim Sect's Say About The Crucifixion .

Ans ; Some Muslim sect believe that he was on the cross , But did not die on the cross . That would be The Ahmadiyya Sect Of Pakistan As stated in Koran 5 ; 157 , And Ahmad Deedat , A representative and spraker for The Sunni world , In his book '' Was Jesus Crucified , Claims Jesus fell into a coma states , Was taken off the cross and later revived ( Using various quotes taken from The New Testament ; John 19 ; 32 , Mark 15 ; 44 , Matthew 27 ; 64 . While other Muslims sects , Such as The Shi - Ite Sect , Believe '' Jesus never was on the cross ( Someone Substituted For Christ Because The Though Of Jesus Being Led To The Cross Was Repugnant To Them ) . Other factions of The Orthodox Sunni Muslims Say that Jesus was on the cross but he didn't Die from Crucifixion , He dies from a stab ( John 19 ; 34 ) . The Black Muslims In America say that Jesus merely died with his arm spread out in the position of the cross , Others Say It Was Judas On The Corss , Not Jesus .

The Muslims seem to be the only ones confused here you have The Muslim Scholar of The Bible , Ahmad Deedat , Who wrote Two Books on the same subject ; The first one was called '' Was Jesus Crucified ? '' And The Second '' Crucifixion Or Cruci - Fixion ? '' And after studying both of them , It is plain to see that his opinion changed from peer pressure of his influences from Saudi Arabia when he became a pupper for The Wahabi Sect who finances his every movement .

Almost all Christians are in agreement that Jesus died on the cross and resurrected from the dead , Which is what they were supposed to believe according to what was written in their scripture . So the only group of people that Allah confused by Koran 4 ; 157 , Appears to be the Muslims , And the only people who differ therein and are in full doubt with no certain knowledge are The Muslims . And by the way , No group is boasting that they killed Christ Jesus . The Jews do not claim that they killed Christ Jesus . The Jews claim that there was No Jesus Christ , Or that there was a Jew who was named Joshua ( Jesus ) who went insane , But no Jew as The Koran 4 ; 157 claims , Is boasting that they killed Jesus Christ The Son Of Mary . This is an incorrect statement . There is no place recorded in history from 2,000 years to today where anybody or any group makes this claim .

Islam believes that there is No Illa Exceph Allah . A major world religion , Is customary defined in Non - Islamic sources as the religion of those who follow The Prophet Muhammad . The Prophet , Who lived in Arabi in the early 7th century , Initiated a religious movement that was carried by the Arabs throughout the middle east .

The Above Three Post Are Dealing With The Facts .

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:48 pm

Daniyal;1153656 wrote: Please Don't Come With That I Don't Have Peace In My Heart Because I Ask You A Question . So What You Saying That Just Because Muslims Don't Believe Jesus Dies On The Cross They're Wrong Right .

Oh please! You said, "Islam is very similar to Christianity, why did I choose Christianity over Islam?" I asked, "Does Islam believe Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world? Does Islam believe that Jesus Christ was crucified for all of our sins, but he rose again on the third day?" And I added, "If not, then Christianity and Islam are not similar at all." That isn't me saying I'm right and your wrong, it's saying that there is no correlation between the two if Islam does not believe in Jesus Christ as being a divine being. And, because I DO believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, and I have decided to follow His teachings, then it would make no logical sense for me to follow Islam.

Then, you accused me of lying when I said that I have questioned my own faith and questioned my pastor's teachings, because you assume that everyone who is a Christian is brainwashed. YOU even stated that Christians don't think for themselves. So, not only did you accuse me of being a liar, but you also disrespected me and my intelligence, just because I happen to not agree with what you believe. And, because I have refuted that nonsense, you can't seem to find enough peace to allow me to believe what I believe. You feel the need to tear me down and my beliefs in hopes of trying to prove how much better or credible your religion is. If anything, you have just convinced me even further that I made the right decision to follow Christ.

As I have said several times before, if you want to be a Muslim, be a Muslim. If you want to be Atheist or Agnostic, be Atheist or Agnostic. Whatever it is that allows you to find peace in your heart. I don't agree with it, and I believe everyone should follow Christ, but that is my life. I'm never going to shove my religion down other people's throats like you have. I just ask if one has peace in their heart and believes differently than I do, that they display that peace by welcoming me and respecting me, despite my religious beliefs. I'm sure if I met any of you in person, you all would be very kind and we would probably get along just fine.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:20 pm

The Holy Qur'an does say that there is to be no compulsion in religion.

Shalom

Mate:-6

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:22 pm

Incidentally, the manner in which Christ died (from a pathological standpoint) also points to a crossbeam mounted to a pole. The scriptures mentioned that it took approximately 6 hours for him to die. This manner of death would be consistent with hypovolemic shock. If he was hung from his hands in the way the society depicts it, his manner of death would has been from asphyxiation and it would have happened much more rapidly. Concentration camp prisoners in WWII who were hung by their wrist with their legs tied down, died within ten minutes because they couldn't lift their bodies to respirate. Those left dangling from their wrist, died in about one hour.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:37 pm

skinsguy:-6

I have absolutely no problem with you being a Christian. I too am a Christian a Christian pluralist.

The points that I make are simply to show you that there are other Christians with other points of view on the sacred scriptures, the life and death and resurrection of Jesus and the path that one must follow as well as other points of view on other religions.

That being said there is only one God. On that all Abrahamic faiths are agreed. Since there is only one God we can only worship the one God. Our names for the Divine may be different as may our concepts. Nevertheless there is only one God though S/He may have a thousand or more names.

For Christians Jesus is the decisive intervention of God in the world. This is not to say that God has not gone to others in a different way. In fact to make that claim is to judge God. Different cultures see things differently and I have no doubt that God has spoken to all people around the world in the best way that they could understand.

There is more than one interpretation to the death of Jesus as there is more than one interpretation to the Easter or Resurrection event.

There are some 22 000 Christian denominations around the world and far too many of them think that they and they alone have the only correct way. That is a sad comment on the state of Christianity today. Nevertheless Jesus is Lord for all Christians.

Shalom

Ted:-6

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:14 pm

Ted;1153820 wrote: skinsguy:-6

I have absolutely no problem with you being a Christian. I too am a Christian a Christian pluralist.

The points that I make are simply to show you that there are other Christians with other points of view on the sacred scriptures, the life and death and resurrection of Jesus and the path that one must follow as well as other points of view on other religions.

That being said there is only one God. On that all Abrahamic faiths are agreed. Since there is only one God we can only worship the one God. Our names for the Divine may be different as may our concepts. Nevertheless there is only one God though S/He may have a thousand or more names.

For Christians Jesus is the decisive intervention of God in the world. This is not to say that God has not gone to others in a different way. In fact to make that claim is to judge God. Different cultures see things differently and I have no doubt that God has spoken to all people around the world in the best way that they could understand.

There is more than one interpretation to the death of Jesus as there is more than one interpretation to the Easter or Resurrection event.

There are some 22 000 Christian denominations around the world and far too many of them think that they and they alone have the only correct way. That is a sad comment on the state of Christianity today. Nevertheless Jesus is Lord for all Christians.

Shalom

Ted:-6

I agree Ted. Christian denominations are all man made. I believe Christians from all denominations will make it to Heaven.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:26 pm

skinsguy:-6

I think we will all be surprised at who enters the kingdom. It won't be Christians only. "Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these in my family you did it to me." Matt 25.

Shalom

Mate:-6

skinsguy · Post by **skinsguy** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:07 pm

Ted;1153851 wrote: skinsguy:-6

I think we will all be surprised at who enters the kingdom. It won't be Christians only. "Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these in my family you did it to me." Matt 25.

Shalom

Mate:-6

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Ted.