The bright side of the Rev Wright issue is that while bringing to light the comments of a Black Minister,, the right wing has unleashed an idea that will eventually destroy itself.. What they failed to see in what was thought would be the sucker punch that ended the threat of an educated Black man from Illinois,, was the glaring fact that their own Christian support was coming from such a warped sense of Biblical reality, that's more in tune with the Bin Ladan Islamic fundamentalists,, than any other in America..
Hagee wrote:
Going in and out of biblical verse, Hagee preached: "'And they the hunters should hunt them,' that will be the Jews. 'From every mountain and from every hill and from out of the holes of the rocks.' If that doesn't describe what Hitler did in the holocaust you can't see that."
He goes on: "Theodore Hertzel is the father of Zionism. He was a Jew who at the turn of the 19th century said, this land is our land, God wants us to live there. So he went to the Jews of Europe and said 'I want you to come and join me in the land of Israel.' So few went that Hertzel went into depression. Those who came founded Israel; those who did not went through the hell of the holocaust.
"Then god sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says—Jeremiah writing—'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."
A cloud does not know why it moves in just such a direction and at such a speed,, it feels an impulsion,,, this is the place to go now..
But the sky knows the reasons and the patterns behind all clouds,, and you will know too, when you lift yourself high enough, to see beyond horizons....Richard Bach- Illusions
The saddest part for me is knowing how a whole population can be duped,,
watching it happen,, and called crazy for mentioning it..
Sources:
"Pastor John Hagee on Christian Zionism," NPR, May 22, 2008.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=6097362
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
You complain about the media taking one preacher's words out of context, then you praise the media for taking another preacher's words out of context.
If you see that statement, sick & twisted as it may seem (to me too), then I guess you don't know about prophesies of the end days.
Granted, I don't know much about it either, being a backslid heathen & all, but I do remember that the Bible prophesied that Israel would rise again - or some such words to that effect. It's a critical component to the rapture. Hagee and other fundamental Chrisians think Israel is the most vitally important country in the world today, and that nothing should be spared to preserve it. Is that anti-semetic, too?
If you see that statement, sick & twisted as it may seem (to me too), then I guess you don't know about prophesies of the end days.
Granted, I don't know much about it either, being a backslid heathen & all, but I do remember that the Bible prophesied that Israel would rise again - or some such words to that effect. It's a critical component to the rapture. Hagee and other fundamental Chrisians think Israel is the most vitally important country in the world today, and that nothing should be spared to preserve it. Is that anti-semetic, too?
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Accountable;873326 wrote: You complain about the media taking one preacher's words out of context, then you praise the media for taking another preacher's words out of context.
If you see that statement, sick & twisted as it may seem (to me too), then I guess you don't know about prophesies of the end days.
I am merely pointing out the slippery slope America has been placed on by this strategy of pointing at the perspective of a Black Minister for the purpose of playing on the fears of white people....
I believe the issue will evolve into the dissecting of all religious views by all Christian leaders who have been used by the right wing as well as the left,, to influence the various voting blocks in America
There is a book out about how religious leaders like Hagee have manipulated the minds of people by using Revelations as qualified data to conclude facts about such things as voting,, its called 'The Great Derangement' by Matt Taibbi,, a writer for Rolling Stone Magazine,, you can find excerpts at Booktv.org
or his blog Smirkingchimps.com,,, check it out...
He basically joined the Hagee church to try and understand how and why people are drawn in and believe with all their heart this one reality as opposed to any other. I believe you will find it quite interesting..
I just find it very interesting that everything in the Christian right movement is geared for those politicians who represent the more fortunate of society, Corporations,,and never for any who have a set of priorities for the less fortunate... Don't you think it a little to convenient that the reasoning being presented to people for voting against their economic reality is of a spiritual nature? Something that is supposed to be a message based on faith,, beyond our earthly understanding?
A message that concludes God is all for The "I got mine" and the Dog eat Dog,, and all other realities that benefit the greedy and keep the poor dependent upon the church??
Do you not have eyes? Can you not see? The money is all they care about,, or better yet,, let me say it is at the top of the priority list,,, same as those who are buying into it..
The reasoning being,, I can only guess,, is God takes care of the poor so there is no need for government to involve itself,, I hope thats it anyway... I can't bring myself to believe that intelligent people of this world would have evil reasons for buying some of these crazy beliefs.
Going back to our earlier points about the rich perspectives of religious leaders and how they sell these views to the less fortunate, and or why they do..
If you go back thru the thread you can catch a glimpse of my reasoning for concern about the number of Christians who did not come to Reverend Wright's defense,, citing the next obvious move by the great political minds on the Obama side,, that since the right(foxnews-Hannity) seen fit to open pandoras box and make this a national story,,, they have ultimately destroyed all religious support for the right wing,, which is their base,,time will tell... The Christian Right will be scrutinized on a level we haven't seen before,,rightly so in my view..
The separation of Church and state will be more understood as the light pours in..
My belief being without separation in our minds,, we lose objectivity,, and will not properly judge the actions of government,, as the Rev Wright does..
acc wrote:
Granted, I don't know much about it either, being a backslid heathen & all, but I do remember that the Bible prophesied that Israel would rise again - or some such words to that effect. It's a critical component to the rapture. Hagee and other fundamental Chrisians think Israel is the most vitally important country in the world today, and that nothing should be spared to preserve it. Is that anti-semetic, too?
The Rapture?:yh_rotfl
Thx for the set up!!
:yh_hypno:yh_hypno
The rapture is the Christian version of the Islamic 70 something virgin story,,
in my opinion,,,, that serves as an understanding that presents an ease to the hearts of those who see the world as hopelessly lost,, and want to believe in a painless way out.. Can you imagine how the rapture would have come in handy for the jews of Germany during WWII,, sadly the reality being Shindlers list...
Why do you believe in such a thing as the rapture?
How does it justify the challenge of your life with the lessons learned?
What kind of souls run when times get tough?
I have read the different extreme beliefs of the right,, that George W Bush is the one who makes the path for the second coming,, and the beginnings of this so-called escape from the evils of this world which ironicly he is one of the leaders in,,
The lefts extreme belief that the Bush/Bin Ladan families are as cooperating corporations in an ultimate venture, one being in the buisiness of products more profitable in times of war,,
and the other needing access to lands formally forbidden in the hunt for gold and riches=oil in Iraq--and pipelines across Afghanistan...
Pick your poison!!!
My personal belief is by doing the math(my math):yh_eyebro
I have concluded that the Jews have shown us that evil must be survived,, out smarted and defeated, and there is no running away from that,,
in fact I would volunteer to stay and fight all enemies of the truth if given the choice,, because I believe rich and poor isn't all about money,, but money is the reason for the spin of all truth...
Note to self;
I reserve the right to change my mind on a moments notice,, of any light that may mess with ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"MY MATH":yh_rotfl
The saddest part for me, is knowing how a whole population can be duped,
watching it happen, and called crazy for mentioning it....
Good morning guests!
If you see that statement, sick & twisted as it may seem (to me too), then I guess you don't know about prophesies of the end days.
I am merely pointing out the slippery slope America has been placed on by this strategy of pointing at the perspective of a Black Minister for the purpose of playing on the fears of white people....
I believe the issue will evolve into the dissecting of all religious views by all Christian leaders who have been used by the right wing as well as the left,, to influence the various voting blocks in America
There is a book out about how religious leaders like Hagee have manipulated the minds of people by using Revelations as qualified data to conclude facts about such things as voting,, its called 'The Great Derangement' by Matt Taibbi,, a writer for Rolling Stone Magazine,, you can find excerpts at Booktv.org
or his blog Smirkingchimps.com,,, check it out...
He basically joined the Hagee church to try and understand how and why people are drawn in and believe with all their heart this one reality as opposed to any other. I believe you will find it quite interesting..
I just find it very interesting that everything in the Christian right movement is geared for those politicians who represent the more fortunate of society, Corporations,,and never for any who have a set of priorities for the less fortunate... Don't you think it a little to convenient that the reasoning being presented to people for voting against their economic reality is of a spiritual nature? Something that is supposed to be a message based on faith,, beyond our earthly understanding?
A message that concludes God is all for The "I got mine" and the Dog eat Dog,, and all other realities that benefit the greedy and keep the poor dependent upon the church??
Do you not have eyes? Can you not see? The money is all they care about,, or better yet,, let me say it is at the top of the priority list,,, same as those who are buying into it..
The reasoning being,, I can only guess,, is God takes care of the poor so there is no need for government to involve itself,, I hope thats it anyway... I can't bring myself to believe that intelligent people of this world would have evil reasons for buying some of these crazy beliefs.
Going back to our earlier points about the rich perspectives of religious leaders and how they sell these views to the less fortunate, and or why they do..
If you go back thru the thread you can catch a glimpse of my reasoning for concern about the number of Christians who did not come to Reverend Wright's defense,, citing the next obvious move by the great political minds on the Obama side,, that since the right(foxnews-Hannity) seen fit to open pandoras box and make this a national story,,, they have ultimately destroyed all religious support for the right wing,, which is their base,,time will tell... The Christian Right will be scrutinized on a level we haven't seen before,,rightly so in my view..
The separation of Church and state will be more understood as the light pours in..
My belief being without separation in our minds,, we lose objectivity,, and will not properly judge the actions of government,, as the Rev Wright does..
acc wrote:
Granted, I don't know much about it either, being a backslid heathen & all, but I do remember that the Bible prophesied that Israel would rise again - or some such words to that effect. It's a critical component to the rapture. Hagee and other fundamental Chrisians think Israel is the most vitally important country in the world today, and that nothing should be spared to preserve it. Is that anti-semetic, too?
The Rapture?:yh_rotfl
Thx for the set up!!
:yh_hypno:yh_hypno
The rapture is the Christian version of the Islamic 70 something virgin story,,
in my opinion,,,, that serves as an understanding that presents an ease to the hearts of those who see the world as hopelessly lost,, and want to believe in a painless way out.. Can you imagine how the rapture would have come in handy for the jews of Germany during WWII,, sadly the reality being Shindlers list...
Why do you believe in such a thing as the rapture?
How does it justify the challenge of your life with the lessons learned?
What kind of souls run when times get tough?
I have read the different extreme beliefs of the right,, that George W Bush is the one who makes the path for the second coming,, and the beginnings of this so-called escape from the evils of this world which ironicly he is one of the leaders in,,
The lefts extreme belief that the Bush/Bin Ladan families are as cooperating corporations in an ultimate venture, one being in the buisiness of products more profitable in times of war,,
and the other needing access to lands formally forbidden in the hunt for gold and riches=oil in Iraq--and pipelines across Afghanistan...
Pick your poison!!!
My personal belief is by doing the math(my math):yh_eyebro
I have concluded that the Jews have shown us that evil must be survived,, out smarted and defeated, and there is no running away from that,,
in fact I would volunteer to stay and fight all enemies of the truth if given the choice,, because I believe rich and poor isn't all about money,, but money is the reason for the spin of all truth...
Note to self;
I reserve the right to change my mind on a moments notice,, of any light that may mess with ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"MY MATH":yh_rotfl
The saddest part for me, is knowing how a whole population can be duped,
watching it happen, and called crazy for mentioning it....
Good morning guests!
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;874488 wrote: He basically joined the Hagee church to try and understand how and why people are drawn in and believe with all their heart this one reality as opposed to any other. I believe you will find it quite interesting..A guy goes to a place with preconceived notions (read prejudice) to verify those notions. I grew up with bigots. I was raised to be a bigot. It's taken alot of soul-searching and self-questioning cleanse myself of such thinking. I have no desire to support another's bigotry. No thanks.
DrJ wrote: I just find it very interesting that everything in the Christian right movement is geared for those politicians who represent the more fortunate of society, Corporations,,and never for any who have a set of priorities for the less fortunate... Don't you think it a little to convenient that the reasoning being presented to people for voting against their economic reality is of a spiritual nature? Something that is supposed to be a message based on faith,, beyond our earthly understanding?...
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=19
These issue don't seem to effect you now,,,but soon you will cry,,,STOP,,,
I hope you,, at least,, start paying attention to that very special,,,
and fragile thing,, we all call religious freedom..........
Religion is merely politics,,,,
God is gravity,,,,,,,,to the collective perspective we all seek..
Do the math,,,,,,,,
The Rapture?:yh_rotfl
Thx for the set up!!
Why do I feel insulted?
DrJ wrote: I just find it very interesting that everything in the Christian right movement is geared for those politicians who represent the more fortunate of society, Corporations,,and never for any who have a set of priorities for the less fortunate... Don't you think it a little to convenient that the reasoning being presented to people for voting against their economic reality is of a spiritual nature? Something that is supposed to be a message based on faith,, beyond our earthly understanding?...
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=19
These issue don't seem to effect you now,,,but soon you will cry,,,STOP,,,
I hope you,, at least,, start paying attention to that very special,,,
and fragile thing,, we all call religious freedom..........
Religion is merely politics,,,,
God is gravity,,,,,,,,to the collective perspective we all seek..
Do the math,,,,,,,,
The Rapture?:yh_rotfl
Thx for the set up!!
Why do I feel insulted?
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Accountable;874525 wrote: A guy goes to a place with preconceived notions (read prejudice) to verify those notions. I grew up with bigots. I was raised to be a bigot. It's taken alot of soul-searching and self-questioning cleanse myself of such thinking. I have no desire to support another's bigotry. No thanks.
Did you even go and read some of it?
The bigotry is deep within us,, our reality verses theres,,
You should not close your mind before you read,, hence a form of bigotry,,
pre--judging is prejudice
acc wrote:
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=19
These issue don't seem to effect you now,,,but soon you will cry,,,STOP,,,
I hope you,, at least,, start paying attention to that very special,,,
and fragile thing,, we all call religious freedom..........
Religion is merely politics,,,,
God is gravity,,,,,,,,to the collective perspective we all seek..
Do the math,,,,,,,,
Why do I feel insulted?
How dare you quote my quotes against me!!!:sneaky:
I apologize if my belief or assumption that you might be:sneaky:
that way,,,:-3
Why didn't you answer my questions?
DrJ wrote: Why do you believe in such a thing as the rapture?
How does it justify the challenge of your life with the lessons learned?
What kind of souls run when times get tough?
This rapture belief,, is main sticking point in your belief in Christ,, is it?
If so,, hang on to it,,, but explain why you think God would reward any by pulling them out of problems that were created for solutions?
As if we even understand the problems yet!!
Did you even go and read some of it?
The bigotry is deep within us,, our reality verses theres,,
You should not close your mind before you read,, hence a form of bigotry,,
pre--judging is prejudice
acc wrote:
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=19
These issue don't seem to effect you now,,,but soon you will cry,,,STOP,,,
I hope you,, at least,, start paying attention to that very special,,,
and fragile thing,, we all call religious freedom..........
Religion is merely politics,,,,
God is gravity,,,,,,,,to the collective perspective we all seek..
Do the math,,,,,,,,
Why do I feel insulted?
How dare you quote my quotes against me!!!:sneaky:
I apologize if my belief or assumption that you might be:sneaky:
that way,,,:-3
Why didn't you answer my questions?
DrJ wrote: Why do you believe in such a thing as the rapture?
How does it justify the challenge of your life with the lessons learned?
What kind of souls run when times get tough?
This rapture belief,, is main sticking point in your belief in Christ,, is it?
If so,, hang on to it,,, but explain why you think God would reward any by pulling them out of problems that were created for solutions?
As if we even understand the problems yet!!
-
Accountable
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;874571 wrote: Did you even go and read some of it?
The bigotry is deep within us,, our reality verses theres,,
You should not close your mind before you read,, hence a form of bigotry,,
pre--judging is prejudiceYeh ... ironic, ain't it.
DrJ wrote: How dare you quote my quotes against me!!!:sneaky:
I apologize if my belief or assumption that you might be:sneaky:
that way,,,:-3
Why didn't you answer my questions?
Why do you believe in such a thing as the rapture? I'm not sure I do. It's not that relevant anyway. Either it will happen or it won't; my actions will not hasten or delay it. I can only live my life the best that I can, and so I do.
How does it justify the challenge of your life with the lessons learned? The rapture? I don't understand how the rapture justifies anything, and it's not something that demands justification. It is of God, and that way above my pay grade.
What kind of souls run when times get tough? I don't understand the question.
DrJ wrote: This rapture belief,, is main sticking point in your belief in Christ,, is it?:-2 Did you get that from my backslid heathen remark? I have no "sticking point" in my belief in Christ.
DrJ wrote: If so,, hang on to it,,, but explain why you think God would reward any by pulling them out of problems that were created for solutions?Leading questions get on my nerves. Do you have a question for me that's not already laden with your presuppositions?
The bigotry is deep within us,, our reality verses theres,,
You should not close your mind before you read,, hence a form of bigotry,,
pre--judging is prejudiceYeh ... ironic, ain't it.
DrJ wrote: How dare you quote my quotes against me!!!:sneaky:
I apologize if my belief or assumption that you might be:sneaky:
that way,,,:-3
Why didn't you answer my questions?
Why do you believe in such a thing as the rapture? I'm not sure I do. It's not that relevant anyway. Either it will happen or it won't; my actions will not hasten or delay it. I can only live my life the best that I can, and so I do.
How does it justify the challenge of your life with the lessons learned? The rapture? I don't understand how the rapture justifies anything, and it's not something that demands justification. It is of God, and that way above my pay grade.
What kind of souls run when times get tough? I don't understand the question.
DrJ wrote: This rapture belief,, is main sticking point in your belief in Christ,, is it?:-2 Did you get that from my backslid heathen remark? I have no "sticking point" in my belief in Christ.
DrJ wrote: If so,, hang on to it,,, but explain why you think God would reward any by pulling them out of problems that were created for solutions?Leading questions get on my nerves. Do you have a question for me that's not already laden with your presuppositions?
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Accountable;874588 wrote: Yeh ... ironic, ain't it.
Why do you believe in such a thing as the rapture? I'm not sure I do. It's not that relevant anyway. Either it will happen or it won't; my actions will not hasten or delay it. I can only live my life the best that I can, and so I do.
How does it justify the challenge of your life with the lessons learned? The rapture? I don't understand how the rapture justifies anything, and it's not something that demands justification. It is of God, and that way above my pay grade.
What kind of souls run when times get tough? I don't understand the question.
:-2 Did you get that from my backslid heathen remark? I have no "sticking point" in my belief in Christ.
Leading questions get on my nerves. Do you have a question for me that's not already laden with your presuppositions?
I was trying to fix that,, but you come back to quick!
Holy Cow!!
Yes I got the backslide,, comment,,
Maybe my judgement,,I aint perfect by the way,, of the islamic belief,,77 sweeties,
effects my attitude when speaking of anything related,,sorry teach!
By the way I have all the Left Behind series....
What do you expect from just an AWRIGHT STUDENT!:-5
:guitarist:-6:guitarist
Why do you believe in such a thing as the rapture? I'm not sure I do. It's not that relevant anyway. Either it will happen or it won't; my actions will not hasten or delay it. I can only live my life the best that I can, and so I do.
How does it justify the challenge of your life with the lessons learned? The rapture? I don't understand how the rapture justifies anything, and it's not something that demands justification. It is of God, and that way above my pay grade.
What kind of souls run when times get tough? I don't understand the question.
:-2 Did you get that from my backslid heathen remark? I have no "sticking point" in my belief in Christ.
Leading questions get on my nerves. Do you have a question for me that's not already laden with your presuppositions?
I was trying to fix that,, but you come back to quick!
Holy Cow!!
Yes I got the backslide,, comment,,
Maybe my judgement,,I aint perfect by the way,, of the islamic belief,,77 sweeties,
effects my attitude when speaking of anything related,,sorry teach!
By the way I have all the Left Behind series....
What do you expect from just an AWRIGHT STUDENT!:-5
:guitarist:-6:guitarist
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
So the reason no one defended Rev Wright is because;
He was Black?
He spoke truth about our deceptive government?
We don't care?
Any agreement with the views of Rev Wright may effect our political views?
Christianity isn't as educational as we thought?
People aren't as Christian as they claim?
A cowardice towards anything against the mainstream?
We still want to believe the Bush/Cheney doctrine?
Hey,,,this journey has been very educational,, as to finding agreements/disagreements,
and to getting it down on record before the story is over,, so as more light is shined on this subject we will know where everyone stood,, and I still feel that when we get to know Rev Wright better,, we will have to admit,, at least to ourselves,, how little info we use to judge the character of anyone in our lives..
Cheney/Rove:sneaky::sneaky: to Bush:-3
By the time they understand what happen to them,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we will be long gone!!!
The saddest thing for me is knowing how a population can be duped,,
watching it happen,, and called crazy for mentioning it...
He was Black?
He spoke truth about our deceptive government?
We don't care?
Any agreement with the views of Rev Wright may effect our political views?
Christianity isn't as educational as we thought?
People aren't as Christian as they claim?
A cowardice towards anything against the mainstream?
We still want to believe the Bush/Cheney doctrine?
Hey,,,this journey has been very educational,, as to finding agreements/disagreements,
and to getting it down on record before the story is over,, so as more light is shined on this subject we will know where everyone stood,, and I still feel that when we get to know Rev Wright better,, we will have to admit,, at least to ourselves,, how little info we use to judge the character of anyone in our lives..
Cheney/Rove:sneaky::sneaky: to Bush:-3
By the time they understand what happen to them,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we will be long gone!!!
The saddest thing for me is knowing how a population can be duped,,
watching it happen,, and called crazy for mentioning it...
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Why'd you put your blinders back on?
*Imitating Wright's best preaching voice*
GOVERNMENTS LIE!
POLITICIANS LIE!
PREACHERS LIE!
JEREMIAH WRIGHT LIED!
We don't know who defended him and who didn't. The media weren't interested in that. For anyone defending him to be picked up by the news they'd have to defend him in quick sound bytes. That means they'd have to defend the whole package without taking time to make exceptions for the more radical, stupid, or untrue statements he's made. How would the media spin such a defense, do ya think? They'd link the defense with the HIV lie because that's what would sell papers or raise ratings.
*Imitating Wright's best preaching voice*
GOVERNMENTS LIE!
POLITICIANS LIE!
PREACHERS LIE!
JEREMIAH WRIGHT LIED!
We don't know who defended him and who didn't. The media weren't interested in that. For anyone defending him to be picked up by the news they'd have to defend him in quick sound bytes. That means they'd have to defend the whole package without taking time to make exceptions for the more radical, stupid, or untrue statements he's made. How would the media spin such a defense, do ya think? They'd link the defense with the HIV lie because that's what would sell papers or raise ratings.
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Maybe they're just honouring the scriptures
God told Jeremiah, "You will go to them; but for their part, they will not listen to you".
God told Jeremiah, "You will go to them; but for their part, they will not listen to you".
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
gmc;877030 wrote: Maybe they're just honouring the scriptures
Maybe,, but people do eventually see,, like someone said "You can count on America to do the right thing,, after they have tried everything else" I realize I fall in there somewhere,, but I can't help but think there is something else going on here that is being shadowed by ego,,pride,, as to their knowledge of government issues and their voting records..
I'm just talking about the people and the opinions that have been developed,, thru so little info..
The Christian Right has its own political agenda, I think..
Maybe they don't want to get on the wrong side of right wing media,,
Maybe some think if they dare stand up for him, they too,, will feel the heat..
I can't help but think,, sooner or later people are going to open their eyes to this blatent attempt to filter all sermons in church,, every preacher has been put on notice in this country,, Land of the so-called free,, for Christs sake!
Right wing media has declared war on every preacher in America by attacking sermons,, and nobody is saying anything,, its what I can only guess as a quiet fear,,,as every pastor in America prepares his/hers politically correct sermon.
Hagee & Co. is feeling it as well,, as the left fire back...
I'll have to also state,, I don't hear any pastor/preacher/priest backing any attack from any media,,, maybe this is the silver lining,, the blessing I believe to be needed for my own understanding,, I mean how long are the blind going to let this go on,, the christian religion is in trouble if this trend keeps up,,
Now,, how crazy does that sound?
Maybe their just honoring scripture by attacking these Preachers that say anything bad about their precious politicians,,who would never lie!:
Discredit all who say different,,,,is what bleeds thru as the truth of all False prophets who come in the name of Christ,,,, but truly are only after the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.....
Reverend Acc wrote:
Why'd you put your blinders back on?
*Imitating Wright's best preaching voice*
GOVERNMENTS LIE!
POLITICIANS LIE!
PREACHERS LIE!
JEREMIAH WRIGHT LIED!
We don't know who defended him and who didn't. The media weren't interested in that. For anyone defending him to be picked up by the news they'd have to defend him in quick sound bytes. That means they'd have to defend the whole package without taking time to make exceptions for the more radical, stupid, or untrue statements he's made. How would the media spin such a defense, do ya think? They'd link the defense with the HIV lie because that's what would sell papers or raise ratings.
How we've accepted this natural act,,,as if it's something thats been going on for decades,, the right wing lied to everyone about everything and your picking one line out of this sermon as if it defines all of it,, That's amazing to me..
You judge this whole mans life for this one thing,, WHY?
How do you know it's a lie? What if like you,, he heard a rumor and believed it?
You really think he lied? To lie,, is to say something you know is false..
What if he truly believes this? Then his character is admonished? in your mad dash to judgement,, you assume he did it intentionally,, now what kind of teacher does this? Who did he hurt that you voted for? That would make you pre=judge this man so? If he believes this,,is he still in your eyes,,a liar?
Until every Christian begins to see a reason to stand up for these blatent attacks by the political media, the more it will effect future generations understanding of religion,, and its role in the real life of human beings,, if the leaders of religion don't see this yet,, it must mean,, what I've always suspected but didn't want to believe,, and that is,,
Religion is becoming a total waste of time,, and the people claiming that it means something to them are nothing but a bunch of FRICKEN LIARS!!!!!!
Blinders my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe,, but people do eventually see,, like someone said "You can count on America to do the right thing,, after they have tried everything else" I realize I fall in there somewhere,, but I can't help but think there is something else going on here that is being shadowed by ego,,pride,, as to their knowledge of government issues and their voting records..
I'm just talking about the people and the opinions that have been developed,, thru so little info..
The Christian Right has its own political agenda, I think..
Maybe they don't want to get on the wrong side of right wing media,,
Maybe some think if they dare stand up for him, they too,, will feel the heat..
I can't help but think,, sooner or later people are going to open their eyes to this blatent attempt to filter all sermons in church,, every preacher has been put on notice in this country,, Land of the so-called free,, for Christs sake!
Right wing media has declared war on every preacher in America by attacking sermons,, and nobody is saying anything,, its what I can only guess as a quiet fear,,,as every pastor in America prepares his/hers politically correct sermon.
Hagee & Co. is feeling it as well,, as the left fire back...
I'll have to also state,, I don't hear any pastor/preacher/priest backing any attack from any media,,, maybe this is the silver lining,, the blessing I believe to be needed for my own understanding,, I mean how long are the blind going to let this go on,, the christian religion is in trouble if this trend keeps up,,
Now,, how crazy does that sound?
Maybe their just honoring scripture by attacking these Preachers that say anything bad about their precious politicians,,who would never lie!:
Discredit all who say different,,,,is what bleeds thru as the truth of all False prophets who come in the name of Christ,,,, but truly are only after the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.....
Reverend Acc wrote:
Why'd you put your blinders back on?
*Imitating Wright's best preaching voice*
GOVERNMENTS LIE!
POLITICIANS LIE!
PREACHERS LIE!
JEREMIAH WRIGHT LIED!
We don't know who defended him and who didn't. The media weren't interested in that. For anyone defending him to be picked up by the news they'd have to defend him in quick sound bytes. That means they'd have to defend the whole package without taking time to make exceptions for the more radical, stupid, or untrue statements he's made. How would the media spin such a defense, do ya think? They'd link the defense with the HIV lie because that's what would sell papers or raise ratings.
How we've accepted this natural act,,,as if it's something thats been going on for decades,, the right wing lied to everyone about everything and your picking one line out of this sermon as if it defines all of it,, That's amazing to me..
You judge this whole mans life for this one thing,, WHY?
How do you know it's a lie? What if like you,, he heard a rumor and believed it?
You really think he lied? To lie,, is to say something you know is false..
What if he truly believes this? Then his character is admonished? in your mad dash to judgement,, you assume he did it intentionally,, now what kind of teacher does this? Who did he hurt that you voted for? That would make you pre=judge this man so? If he believes this,,is he still in your eyes,,a liar?
Until every Christian begins to see a reason to stand up for these blatent attacks by the political media, the more it will effect future generations understanding of religion,, and its role in the real life of human beings,, if the leaders of religion don't see this yet,, it must mean,, what I've always suspected but didn't want to believe,, and that is,,
Religion is becoming a total waste of time,, and the people claiming that it means something to them are nothing but a bunch of FRICKEN LIARS!!!!!!
Blinders my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;877658 wrote: You judge this whole mans life for this one thing,, WHY?You asked why you haven't heard of anyone defending him and I gave my opinion. I did not "judge this whole mans life" at all. He's done some remarkable things. There's a pic out there somewhere of him assisting during surgery on President Johnson.
Actually, your reaction to my post is a pretty good example why more people don't publicly defend Wright. Just as you took my statement and unfairly stretched it from a pretty specific opinion to a blanket condemnation, there's a risk that a conditional defense will be unfairly stretched into a blanket agreement with everything Wright has said. Maybe some that otherwise would defend him don't do so publicly for just this reason.
I've got students that are good kids, but who some teachers have written off as bad and not worth their time. I start gathering hard statistics to refute their mainly prejudicial opinions, then suddenly the kid has a string of tardies or skips a class. Ever hear that old saying that a hundred attaboys can be wipe out by one Ohshit?
To the rest of your comment: Anytime someone claims to know the truth they set themselves up for scrutiny. They set a high standard for themselves and they need to be up to it.
If you're truly worried about Wright, look at what really matters: the congregation he led. If I'm not mistaken they have bought him a nice home as a retirement gift. He was not condemned, excommunicated, or fired. For good or ill, his church believes him & loves him. He's got 35 years of changing lives. He doesn't need our defense.
Actually, your reaction to my post is a pretty good example why more people don't publicly defend Wright. Just as you took my statement and unfairly stretched it from a pretty specific opinion to a blanket condemnation, there's a risk that a conditional defense will be unfairly stretched into a blanket agreement with everything Wright has said. Maybe some that otherwise would defend him don't do so publicly for just this reason.
I've got students that are good kids, but who some teachers have written off as bad and not worth their time. I start gathering hard statistics to refute their mainly prejudicial opinions, then suddenly the kid has a string of tardies or skips a class. Ever hear that old saying that a hundred attaboys can be wipe out by one Ohshit?
To the rest of your comment: Anytime someone claims to know the truth they set themselves up for scrutiny. They set a high standard for themselves and they need to be up to it.
If you're truly worried about Wright, look at what really matters: the congregation he led. If I'm not mistaken they have bought him a nice home as a retirement gift. He was not condemned, excommunicated, or fired. For good or ill, his church believes him & loves him. He's got 35 years of changing lives. He doesn't need our defense.
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
posted by dr j
Maybe,, but people do eventually see,, like someone said "You can count on America to do the right thing,, after they have tried everything else" I realize I fall in there somewhere,, but I can't help but think there is something else going on here that is being shadowed by ego,,pride,, as to their knowledge of government issues and their voting records..
Actually it was Churchill. You do realise that the Christian right is a peculiarly American phenomenon don't you?
Until every Christian begins to see a reason to stand up for these blatent attacks by the political media, the more it will effect future generations understanding of religion,, and its role in the real life of human beings,, if the leaders of religion don't see this yet,, it must mean,, what I've always suspected but didn't want to believe,, and that is,,
Outsiders wonder if america will become a Christian fundamentalist state. Wouldn't matter of you did, it's your choice after all but you have all these nuclear weapons and if you get a president that believes in armageddon---
Maybe,, but people do eventually see,, like someone said "You can count on America to do the right thing,, after they have tried everything else" I realize I fall in there somewhere,, but I can't help but think there is something else going on here that is being shadowed by ego,,pride,, as to their knowledge of government issues and their voting records..
Actually it was Churchill. You do realise that the Christian right is a peculiarly American phenomenon don't you?
Until every Christian begins to see a reason to stand up for these blatent attacks by the political media, the more it will effect future generations understanding of religion,, and its role in the real life of human beings,, if the leaders of religion don't see this yet,, it must mean,, what I've always suspected but didn't want to believe,, and that is,,
Outsiders wonder if america will become a Christian fundamentalist state. Wouldn't matter of you did, it's your choice after all but you have all these nuclear weapons and if you get a president that believes in armageddon---
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
gmc;877782 wrote: posted by dr j
Actually it was Churchill. You do realise that the Christian right is a peculiarly American phenomenon don't you?
Yes,,,The so-called moral majority was formed to get Americans in some kind of voting pattern to get like minded politicians elected to somehow effect all of America's wedge issues,, like abortion, gay rights,,,etc, etc.
gmc wrote:
Outsiders wonder if america will become a Christian fundamentalist state. Wouldn't matter of you did, it's your choice after all but you have all these nuclear weapons and if you get a president that believes in armageddon---
I have a funny feeling that is the ultimate goal,, as these high-minded moral elites
get the idea that the goal should be some kind of world domination that includes a religious intolerance for any who don't believe as they do..
Maybe this issue with Rev Wright will get people to start paying more attention to these Christian people that have all these weapons,,, and believe using them as a way of spreading this gospel of intolerence around the world....
Corporations have no problem with going along with some of these beliefs only when it suits their interests, and so far only when it involves smaller nations that they believe are in no way a threat to America,,, you do notice we don't mess with the larger nations of the world,,, so the elites in this country don't have to worry about time in harms way,,, so the rich can feel safe as they get richer..
But the truth that terrorism threatens the corporate world in a way that has built in an insecurity about this world,, and all the different right wing groups in other countries,, making it mandatory that something be done,,anything to at least give the money changers enough of a false sense of security that lets them know its OK to come out of the mansion and do buisness....
So they will go for just about anything government does,, know matter the costs,,positives or negatives. Hence the term "fight 'em there,, so we don't have to fight 'em here"...
Whomever they decide,,,"them" are!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am convinced that if all America had to defend her we would be the most passive, the most diplomatic country on the planet,,,, but I guess thats a whole nother thread....
I realize religion is politics,,, but there are those who believe Christianity is the only way of life that is anywhere close to reality,, its really amazing when you think about it,, talk it out,, adding the many different perspectives from other beliefs,, and then talk to someone that wouldn't even think a broader view just might be needed...
I also see that,, as you say,, in a "Christian Nation",, we are just beginning to tap into the ignorance and stupidity that comes with the closet marriage of politics and religion,,, in any country,, as this Rev Wright issue has demonstrated,, and soon you will see the right wing pastors and priests coming out against all the lefts pastors and priests... Islam hasn't got nothing on Christians when it comes to the lunatic fringe,, I am sorry to say...
The evil that comes with Greed and the want for power will always be,, and I hope the evil that comes from starvation, homelessness, and hunger isn't the solution to it..
acc wrote:
You asked why you haven't heard of anyone defending him and I gave my opinion. I did not "judge this whole mans life" at all. He's done some remarkable things. There's a pic out there somewhere of him assisting during surgery on President Johnson.
Actually, your reaction to my post is a pretty good example why more people don't publicly defend Wright. Just as you took my statement and unfairly stretched it from a pretty specific opinion to a blanket condemnation, there's a risk that a conditional defense will be unfairly stretched into a blanket agreement with everything Wright has said. Maybe some that otherwise would defend him don't do so publicly for just this reason.
I've got students that are good kids, but who some teachers have written off as bad and not worth their time. I start gathering hard statistics to refute their mainly prejudicial opinions, then suddenly the kid has a string of tardies or skips a class. Ever hear that old saying that a hundred attaboys can be wipe out by one Ohshit?
To the rest of your comment: Anytime someone claims to know the truth they set themselves up for scrutiny. They set a high standard for themselves and they need to be up to it.
If you're truly worried about Wright, look at what really matters: the congregation he led. If I'm not mistaken they have bought him a nice home as a retirement gift. He was not condemned, excommunicated, or fired. For good or ill, his church believes him & loves him. He's got 35 years of changing lives. He doesn't need our defense.
I took your opinion as a reason for not standing up for "speaking negative to power" actually....
Your right they do set themselves up,, I just don't believe we are judging all the comments,, we are judging the man,, a campaign of character assasination, to block any view of comments of truth within,, I believe you already know this..
The comparisons to right wing lunatics as peddlers of "nutso",, to get people tuned out with a bunch of pre judgments... I'm not as worried about the rich man Rev Wright as I am the people in this country that take this issue into other places,, and make decisions based on facts,, or the lack of,, from it..
I know that the people close to Rev Wright know exactly whats happening,, and why its happening,, and that is to effect the minds of those people that don't even have a clue what pitfalls,, or types of manipulations are out here,, and make decisions on partial,, or spun up truths,, that when unraveled,, come up totally different than the face value of what is being shown...
Evil comes to power thru the one issue voter period,,, I see it plain as day..
:guitarist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-6,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:guitarist
The saddest thing for me is knowing how a population can be duped,,
watching it happen,, and called crazy for mentioning it...:-5
Actually it was Churchill. You do realise that the Christian right is a peculiarly American phenomenon don't you?
Yes,,,The so-called moral majority was formed to get Americans in some kind of voting pattern to get like minded politicians elected to somehow effect all of America's wedge issues,, like abortion, gay rights,,,etc, etc.
gmc wrote:
Outsiders wonder if america will become a Christian fundamentalist state. Wouldn't matter of you did, it's your choice after all but you have all these nuclear weapons and if you get a president that believes in armageddon---
I have a funny feeling that is the ultimate goal,, as these high-minded moral elites
get the idea that the goal should be some kind of world domination that includes a religious intolerance for any who don't believe as they do..
Maybe this issue with Rev Wright will get people to start paying more attention to these Christian people that have all these weapons,,, and believe using them as a way of spreading this gospel of intolerence around the world....
Corporations have no problem with going along with some of these beliefs only when it suits their interests, and so far only when it involves smaller nations that they believe are in no way a threat to America,,, you do notice we don't mess with the larger nations of the world,,, so the elites in this country don't have to worry about time in harms way,,, so the rich can feel safe as they get richer..
But the truth that terrorism threatens the corporate world in a way that has built in an insecurity about this world,, and all the different right wing groups in other countries,, making it mandatory that something be done,,anything to at least give the money changers enough of a false sense of security that lets them know its OK to come out of the mansion and do buisness....
So they will go for just about anything government does,, know matter the costs,,positives or negatives. Hence the term "fight 'em there,, so we don't have to fight 'em here"...
Whomever they decide,,,"them" are!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am convinced that if all America had to defend her we would be the most passive, the most diplomatic country on the planet,,,, but I guess thats a whole nother thread....
I realize religion is politics,,, but there are those who believe Christianity is the only way of life that is anywhere close to reality,, its really amazing when you think about it,, talk it out,, adding the many different perspectives from other beliefs,, and then talk to someone that wouldn't even think a broader view just might be needed...
I also see that,, as you say,, in a "Christian Nation",, we are just beginning to tap into the ignorance and stupidity that comes with the closet marriage of politics and religion,,, in any country,, as this Rev Wright issue has demonstrated,, and soon you will see the right wing pastors and priests coming out against all the lefts pastors and priests... Islam hasn't got nothing on Christians when it comes to the lunatic fringe,, I am sorry to say...
The evil that comes with Greed and the want for power will always be,, and I hope the evil that comes from starvation, homelessness, and hunger isn't the solution to it..
acc wrote:
You asked why you haven't heard of anyone defending him and I gave my opinion. I did not "judge this whole mans life" at all. He's done some remarkable things. There's a pic out there somewhere of him assisting during surgery on President Johnson.
Actually, your reaction to my post is a pretty good example why more people don't publicly defend Wright. Just as you took my statement and unfairly stretched it from a pretty specific opinion to a blanket condemnation, there's a risk that a conditional defense will be unfairly stretched into a blanket agreement with everything Wright has said. Maybe some that otherwise would defend him don't do so publicly for just this reason.
I've got students that are good kids, but who some teachers have written off as bad and not worth their time. I start gathering hard statistics to refute their mainly prejudicial opinions, then suddenly the kid has a string of tardies or skips a class. Ever hear that old saying that a hundred attaboys can be wipe out by one Ohshit?
To the rest of your comment: Anytime someone claims to know the truth they set themselves up for scrutiny. They set a high standard for themselves and they need to be up to it.
If you're truly worried about Wright, look at what really matters: the congregation he led. If I'm not mistaken they have bought him a nice home as a retirement gift. He was not condemned, excommunicated, or fired. For good or ill, his church believes him & loves him. He's got 35 years of changing lives. He doesn't need our defense.
I took your opinion as a reason for not standing up for "speaking negative to power" actually....
Your right they do set themselves up,, I just don't believe we are judging all the comments,, we are judging the man,, a campaign of character assasination, to block any view of comments of truth within,, I believe you already know this..
The comparisons to right wing lunatics as peddlers of "nutso",, to get people tuned out with a bunch of pre judgments... I'm not as worried about the rich man Rev Wright as I am the people in this country that take this issue into other places,, and make decisions based on facts,, or the lack of,, from it..
I know that the people close to Rev Wright know exactly whats happening,, and why its happening,, and that is to effect the minds of those people that don't even have a clue what pitfalls,, or types of manipulations are out here,, and make decisions on partial,, or spun up truths,, that when unraveled,, come up totally different than the face value of what is being shown...
Evil comes to power thru the one issue voter period,,, I see it plain as day..
:guitarist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-6,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:guitarist
The saddest thing for me is knowing how a population can be duped,,
watching it happen,, and called crazy for mentioning it...:-5
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;878509 wrote:
The comparisons to right wing lunatics as peddlers of "nutso",, to get people tuned out with a bunch of pre judgments... I'm not as worried about the rich man Rev Wright as I am the people in this country that take this issue into other places,, and make decisions based on facts,, or the lack of,, from it..
I know that the people close to Rev Wright know exactly whats happening,, and why its happening,, and that is to effect the minds of those people that don't even have a clue what pitfalls,, or types of manipulations are out here,, and make decisions on partial,, or spun up truths,, that when unraveled,, come up totally different than the face value of what is being shown...
If people took the time to examine this sermon,, they would eventually come close to the same conclusion as me and that is,, he was merely pointing out Goverment isn't perfect.
Humans aren't without sin,, was the message,,,Governments are made up of Humans...
What a revelation!! What in Gods name am I missing there?
Political strategist taking advantage of the fears of Americans,, the saddest part of American politics are the fear peddlers who need to cloud the issues to hide their own agendas,, and the selfish greed within.... I will bounce the truth between the legs of all those that believe they can convince me to agree with them by telling me I should fear anything,,, if I don't agree..
The politics of fear should be stomped out of all debates before anything is decided, in my opinion..
Instead of judging the man,,the Rev, judge what he actually said to his listeners..
I wonder what any of us would of done if we were somehow cast in the rev's shoes... In what ways could he have reacted better to the situation he was thrown into,, in regards to a sermon he gave 5 yrs prior?
Part of the sermon is on this thread,,, I wish someone would read it and comment on the comments?
Acc ,,,,you are the only person in here that has ever pulled a comment and made issue with it,, I have to respect that,, at least you tried to look at the true situation,, instead of hopping on a band wagon of looney tunes...
What if it had been your church or organization? Your Preacher? You even?
Can you compare it to anything in your life? Jester at least tried that,, exploring the possibility that maybe he might be able to relate in some way...
How many people have we had to dis-own because of their beliefs or perspectives of truth? I can't think of anyone except my ex=wife!
How many will blame these Christians if Barrack loses in November?
Gmc,, your observations on our religion and political schemes was a perspective that hit the nail on the head as to why I think we Americans miss the truth at times,, as our minds have been trained to relate the two no matter the amount of insanity contained,,ty
Freedom is never free,,, understanding that may help in understanding why the Rev didn't just roll over in the face of a right wings play against him to get to one of his many, many parisheners...
Hillary also showed the integrity of a con artist opportunist, going along with the strategy of fear mongering by trying to take advantage of this right wing desparation when she found herself behind... Honesty not her strong suit anyway.
I feel like the voters of this country are being taken advantage of,, not because of a lack of intelligence or educational level, but more on a level of experience in the political field,, sort of like some feel when their car breaks down, and they have to take it to a garage and accept what the professional mechanic tells them,, hoping they can afford the repair charge...
These strategist are professionals,, they have honed in on what voters react to,,and how they react ,, and by spining any truth,,sound byte, or any partial reading, they can place anyone in a bad light for someone who hasn't got a clue who we are,, and really don't care who the person is or why we say or write what we do.. A natural reaction for those that haven't the time to pay that close attention to get close enough to make correct decisions on important issues. Judging something without some key facts ever being brought up,, or even asked for..
It's definitely not the brightest part of our political system,, but at least we do have a voice in it, if we choose!!
I thank everyone for every comment,, no matter the content,, I promise you all, I learned a lot about myself from the back and forth from everyone,, and it has made me respect others with perspectives as solid or stubborn as mine,,:guitarist
Hey,, it's nice to know we all ain't really all that different,,,:-5:-5:-5
Thx Teach!:-6
An Awright student!:-2
The comparisons to right wing lunatics as peddlers of "nutso",, to get people tuned out with a bunch of pre judgments... I'm not as worried about the rich man Rev Wright as I am the people in this country that take this issue into other places,, and make decisions based on facts,, or the lack of,, from it..
I know that the people close to Rev Wright know exactly whats happening,, and why its happening,, and that is to effect the minds of those people that don't even have a clue what pitfalls,, or types of manipulations are out here,, and make decisions on partial,, or spun up truths,, that when unraveled,, come up totally different than the face value of what is being shown...
If people took the time to examine this sermon,, they would eventually come close to the same conclusion as me and that is,, he was merely pointing out Goverment isn't perfect.
Humans aren't without sin,, was the message,,,Governments are made up of Humans...
What a revelation!! What in Gods name am I missing there?
Political strategist taking advantage of the fears of Americans,, the saddest part of American politics are the fear peddlers who need to cloud the issues to hide their own agendas,, and the selfish greed within.... I will bounce the truth between the legs of all those that believe they can convince me to agree with them by telling me I should fear anything,,, if I don't agree..
The politics of fear should be stomped out of all debates before anything is decided, in my opinion..
Instead of judging the man,,the Rev, judge what he actually said to his listeners..
I wonder what any of us would of done if we were somehow cast in the rev's shoes... In what ways could he have reacted better to the situation he was thrown into,, in regards to a sermon he gave 5 yrs prior?
Part of the sermon is on this thread,,, I wish someone would read it and comment on the comments?
Acc ,,,,you are the only person in here that has ever pulled a comment and made issue with it,, I have to respect that,, at least you tried to look at the true situation,, instead of hopping on a band wagon of looney tunes...
What if it had been your church or organization? Your Preacher? You even?
Can you compare it to anything in your life? Jester at least tried that,, exploring the possibility that maybe he might be able to relate in some way...
How many people have we had to dis-own because of their beliefs or perspectives of truth? I can't think of anyone except my ex=wife!
How many will blame these Christians if Barrack loses in November?
Gmc,, your observations on our religion and political schemes was a perspective that hit the nail on the head as to why I think we Americans miss the truth at times,, as our minds have been trained to relate the two no matter the amount of insanity contained,,ty
Freedom is never free,,, understanding that may help in understanding why the Rev didn't just roll over in the face of a right wings play against him to get to one of his many, many parisheners...
Hillary also showed the integrity of a con artist opportunist, going along with the strategy of fear mongering by trying to take advantage of this right wing desparation when she found herself behind... Honesty not her strong suit anyway.
I feel like the voters of this country are being taken advantage of,, not because of a lack of intelligence or educational level, but more on a level of experience in the political field,, sort of like some feel when their car breaks down, and they have to take it to a garage and accept what the professional mechanic tells them,, hoping they can afford the repair charge...
These strategist are professionals,, they have honed in on what voters react to,,and how they react ,, and by spining any truth,,sound byte, or any partial reading, they can place anyone in a bad light for someone who hasn't got a clue who we are,, and really don't care who the person is or why we say or write what we do.. A natural reaction for those that haven't the time to pay that close attention to get close enough to make correct decisions on important issues. Judging something without some key facts ever being brought up,, or even asked for..
It's definitely not the brightest part of our political system,, but at least we do have a voice in it, if we choose!!
I thank everyone for every comment,, no matter the content,, I promise you all, I learned a lot about myself from the back and forth from everyone,, and it has made me respect others with perspectives as solid or stubborn as mine,,:guitarist
Hey,, it's nice to know we all ain't really all that different,,,:-5:-5:-5
Thx Teach!:-6
An Awright student!:-2
-
Snidely Whiplash
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:33 pm
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
This so called preacher is an abomination to God, and to all mankind, and his church and this Obama who fakes and reads everything he says off of a teleprompter written by someone else who is pretending to be a Christian has given the Christian faith a scar that will take much work to remove..... :-3
This Black theology crap is total evil, and has nothing to do with true Chritianity.!!! This church that has had media spotlights for months now, has turned more people away from God than an army of Athiests preaching thier secular beliefs and giving out free subscriptions to the Playboy channel....!!!!!!
This man is destined for a firey end.................... Hope you all won't be there to watch....??????
This Black theology crap is total evil, and has nothing to do with true Chritianity.!!! This church that has had media spotlights for months now, has turned more people away from God than an army of Athiests preaching thier secular beliefs and giving out free subscriptions to the Playboy channel....!!!!!!
This man is destined for a firey end.................... Hope you all won't be there to watch....??????
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Snidely Whiplash;885793 wrote: This so called preacher is an abomination to God, and to all mankind, and his church and this Obama who fakes and reads everything he says off of a teleprompter written by someone else who is pretending to be a Christian has given the Christian faith a scar that will take much work to remove.....
This Black theology crap is total evil, and has nothing to do with true Chritianity.!!! This church that has had media spotlights for months now, has turned more people away from God than an army of Athiests preaching thier secular beliefs and giving out free subscriptions to the Playboy channel....!!!!!!
This man is destined for a firey end.................... Hope you all won't be there to watch....??????
Abomination to God?-- who or what do you believe God to be,, that any group could possibly do any damage to at all?
This is the best description for any fight with my "GOD",,,:-5:-5:-5
You are the same as those forgiven,,for they know not what they do..
Christ could grow up in your home and you would never recognize...
Your mistake is putting your own limitations on your "GOD"...
I am like God,, and God like me,,,
I am as large as he,, he is as small as me,,
He cannot above me,, nor me beneath him be!
We are,,, but God,,, on earth,,,, in pieces!
I and my father are one!
The collective perspective is the Higher power...:-6:-6:-6
The light is all around you,,,,,,,,,human!
God Loves you anyway!
This Black theology crap is total evil, and has nothing to do with true Chritianity.!!! This church that has had media spotlights for months now, has turned more people away from God than an army of Athiests preaching thier secular beliefs and giving out free subscriptions to the Playboy channel....!!!!!!
This man is destined for a firey end.................... Hope you all won't be there to watch....??????
Abomination to God?-- who or what do you believe God to be,, that any group could possibly do any damage to at all?
This is the best description for any fight with my "GOD",,,:-5:-5:-5
You are the same as those forgiven,,for they know not what they do..
Christ could grow up in your home and you would never recognize...
Your mistake is putting your own limitations on your "GOD"...
I am like God,, and God like me,,,
I am as large as he,, he is as small as me,,
He cannot above me,, nor me beneath him be!
We are,,, but God,,, on earth,,,, in pieces!
I and my father are one!
The collective perspective is the Higher power...:-6:-6:-6
The light is all around you,,,,,,,,,human!
God Loves you anyway!
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
posted by drj
Gmc,, your observations on our religion and political schemes was a perspective that hit the nail on the head as to why I think we Americans miss the truth at times,, as our minds have been trained to relate the two no matter the amount of insanity contained,,ty
Course with the rise in the latino population who are predominantly catholic you got a whole slew of new religious issues to worry about not just the fundamentalist (protestant) christians. Never mind raving on about Muslims Christians like raving on about each other even more-wait till they start worrying about that one.
Gmc,, your observations on our religion and political schemes was a perspective that hit the nail on the head as to why I think we Americans miss the truth at times,, as our minds have been trained to relate the two no matter the amount of insanity contained,,ty
Course with the rise in the latino population who are predominantly catholic you got a whole slew of new religious issues to worry about not just the fundamentalist (protestant) christians. Never mind raving on about Muslims Christians like raving on about each other even more-wait till they start worrying about that one.
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Snidely Whiplash
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:33 pm
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
A Preacher who stands before God in what he must believe is God's church and in front of his flock of believers and screams out the Lords name in vein saying G** Dam* America over and over, and curses the country he lives in, and outright LIES to his flock saying things like, the aids virus was created by the government to kill black people, and the USA is nothing but the US of KKK, and preaching HATE and RACISM to his people from his pulpit, is an abomination to God and a sad excuse for religion to anyone who is involved in this hate and racist black theology belief system....
We are to judge our pastors and teachers by thier words and works, that is how we as Christians, "WEED OUT THE CHAFF", as biblically we MUST DO, so we can embrace and can be fed spiritually by the true word of God by those teachers who preach it as it was given to us by divine inspiration....
How much evil do you have to hear come from this mans lips before you can judge him as evil....?
He is putting Christianity in a really bad light, it rreally makes me sad.... Most churches are really lovely, enlightening, spititualy uplifting places where you feel wonderful when you leave, not filled with this man's hate and racist views that will make you angry for the rest of your week..... Icccckkkk!!!! :sneaky:
We are to judge our pastors and teachers by thier words and works, that is how we as Christians, "WEED OUT THE CHAFF", as biblically we MUST DO, so we can embrace and can be fed spiritually by the true word of God by those teachers who preach it as it was given to us by divine inspiration....
How much evil do you have to hear come from this mans lips before you can judge him as evil....?
He is putting Christianity in a really bad light, it rreally makes me sad.... Most churches are really lovely, enlightening, spititualy uplifting places where you feel wonderful when you leave, not filled with this man's hate and racist views that will make you angry for the rest of your week..... Icccckkkk!!!! :sneaky:
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
gmc wrote:
Course with the rise in the latino population who are predominantly catholic you got a whole slew of new religious issues to worry about not just the fundamentalist (protestant) christians. Never mind raving on about Muslims Christians like raving on about each other even more-wait till they start worrying about that one.
I know,, but for some reason they seem more sane to me than the right wing white Americans because they are more into it for self preservation,,, having so many illegal citizen relatives,, if you know what I mean...
It's more of a sanctuary for them,, so far anyway...
Sunni/Shia,, aint got nuttin' on us hillbilly Christians,, dat's for sure!
Snidely Whiplash;886480 wrote: A Preacher who stands before God in what he must believe is God's church and in front of his flock of believers and screams out the Lords name in vein saying G** Dam* America over and over, and curses the country he lives in, and outright LIES to his flock saying things like, the aids virus was created by the government to kill black people, and the USA is nothing but the US of KKK, and preaching HATE and RACISM to his people from his pulpit, is an abomination to God and a sad excuse for religion to anyone who is involved in this hate and racist black theology belief system....
We are to judge our pastors and teachers by thier words and works, that is how we as Christians, "WEED OUT THE CHAFF", as biblically we MUST DO, so we can embrace and can be fed spiritually by the true word of God by those teachers who preach it as it was given to us by divine inspiration....
How much evil do you have to hear come from this mans lips before you can judge him as evil....?
He is putting Christianity in a really bad light, it really makes me sad.... Most churches are really lovely, enlightening, spititualy uplifting places where you feel wonderful when you leave, not filled with this man's hate and racist views that will make you angry for the rest of your week..... Icccckkkk!!!! :sneaky:
Hey this wasn't even about him,, it's about the arch enemy of the right wing politicians,,BARRACK!!!
SO do you believe that Governments aren't capable at times of having strong opinions that bleed off into society? Our government is far from perrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect,, I'm sure...
The style of some preachers that try and add some of the worlds dark realities to their sermons doesn't make people feel,,,"filled with hate",, I wouldn't think..
Some actually leave church feeling more educated as to the truth about the sins of mankind being committed in their lifetime............... WOW! ,,,,,,,,,,,,What a concept!
The saddest thing about this is the "Black" experience in America is so foreign to some white people that they can't even conceive why anyone would think anything negative about this system we all share,,AMERICA! Some white people just don't understand when sombody else "Rocks the Boat"..
The point he was trying to make is truthful~Governments do lie to people...
Have you ever exaggerated anything to try and get your point across to the minds of another?
What do they talk about at your church,,anyway?
Nothing about the war?,, taxes?,, gas prices?,, poverty?
Is it all thru rose colored glasses,, we need from these men of the cloth?
I know how some comments from a man of the cloth may effect your voting style..
Well you know how them older Black man types with good memories can get when it comes to the treatment of a race ignored by a government..
You can find the whole GD AMERICA sermon on here,,
find it and read it,, if you dare,, then judge these words spoken "before" we found no WMD's in Iraq,,, the timing of this sermon is the most amazing part of this issue.. Insightful beyond belief!
You have picked out all you need from them,,haven't you?
Let me guess,,big fan of Hannity and Rush Limbaughless,, I sense...
OH! By the way,, Rev Wright was quoting a United States Ambassador appointed by GWB himself when he was recorded saying those words you claim EVIL!
5 yrs ago!
All I'm saying is,, those words weren't his,,,, I say,, we can still hang the white Ambassador,, can't we?
I bet Bush/Cheney got him dodging sniper fire as we speak!
Course with the rise in the latino population who are predominantly catholic you got a whole slew of new religious issues to worry about not just the fundamentalist (protestant) christians. Never mind raving on about Muslims Christians like raving on about each other even more-wait till they start worrying about that one.
I know,, but for some reason they seem more sane to me than the right wing white Americans because they are more into it for self preservation,,, having so many illegal citizen relatives,, if you know what I mean...
It's more of a sanctuary for them,, so far anyway...
Sunni/Shia,, aint got nuttin' on us hillbilly Christians,, dat's for sure!
Snidely Whiplash;886480 wrote: A Preacher who stands before God in what he must believe is God's church and in front of his flock of believers and screams out the Lords name in vein saying G** Dam* America over and over, and curses the country he lives in, and outright LIES to his flock saying things like, the aids virus was created by the government to kill black people, and the USA is nothing but the US of KKK, and preaching HATE and RACISM to his people from his pulpit, is an abomination to God and a sad excuse for religion to anyone who is involved in this hate and racist black theology belief system....
We are to judge our pastors and teachers by thier words and works, that is how we as Christians, "WEED OUT THE CHAFF", as biblically we MUST DO, so we can embrace and can be fed spiritually by the true word of God by those teachers who preach it as it was given to us by divine inspiration....
How much evil do you have to hear come from this mans lips before you can judge him as evil....?
He is putting Christianity in a really bad light, it really makes me sad.... Most churches are really lovely, enlightening, spititualy uplifting places where you feel wonderful when you leave, not filled with this man's hate and racist views that will make you angry for the rest of your week..... Icccckkkk!!!! :sneaky:
Hey this wasn't even about him,, it's about the arch enemy of the right wing politicians,,BARRACK!!!
SO do you believe that Governments aren't capable at times of having strong opinions that bleed off into society? Our government is far from perrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect,, I'm sure...
The style of some preachers that try and add some of the worlds dark realities to their sermons doesn't make people feel,,,"filled with hate",, I wouldn't think..
Some actually leave church feeling more educated as to the truth about the sins of mankind being committed in their lifetime............... WOW! ,,,,,,,,,,,,What a concept!
The saddest thing about this is the "Black" experience in America is so foreign to some white people that they can't even conceive why anyone would think anything negative about this system we all share,,AMERICA! Some white people just don't understand when sombody else "Rocks the Boat"..
The point he was trying to make is truthful~Governments do lie to people...
Have you ever exaggerated anything to try and get your point across to the minds of another?
What do they talk about at your church,,anyway?
Nothing about the war?,, taxes?,, gas prices?,, poverty?
Is it all thru rose colored glasses,, we need from these men of the cloth?
I know how some comments from a man of the cloth may effect your voting style..
Well you know how them older Black man types with good memories can get when it comes to the treatment of a race ignored by a government..
You can find the whole GD AMERICA sermon on here,,
find it and read it,, if you dare,, then judge these words spoken "before" we found no WMD's in Iraq,,, the timing of this sermon is the most amazing part of this issue.. Insightful beyond belief!
You have picked out all you need from them,,haven't you?
Let me guess,,big fan of Hannity and Rush Limbaughless,, I sense...
OH! By the way,, Rev Wright was quoting a United States Ambassador appointed by GWB himself when he was recorded saying those words you claim EVIL!
5 yrs ago!
All I'm saying is,, those words weren't his,,,, I say,, we can still hang the white Ambassador,, can't we?
I bet Bush/Cheney got him dodging sniper fire as we speak!
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Snidely Whiplash
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:33 pm
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;886525 wrote:
I bet Bush/Cheney got him dodging sniper fire as we speak!
You're just a hater, and everything you see is colored by Bush / Cheney..... Those are your "rose colored glasses", or more likely "hate colored glasses".....
And BTW, my church lifts it's people up, and gives us the spritual food all people need.... It doesn't shout down it's people and make them victims of the evil white man, or blame the government or Bush / Cheney for all our problems.... In my church and belief, we are ALL children of God, not JUST black people waiting for the black Jesus to liberate them from they're white opressors, like in Writes Church....
You need to re think your faith if you buy into that nonsense.... Any of it..........
Take care....
I bet Bush/Cheney got him dodging sniper fire as we speak!
You're just a hater, and everything you see is colored by Bush / Cheney..... Those are your "rose colored glasses", or more likely "hate colored glasses".....
And BTW, my church lifts it's people up, and gives us the spritual food all people need.... It doesn't shout down it's people and make them victims of the evil white man, or blame the government or Bush / Cheney for all our problems.... In my church and belief, we are ALL children of God, not JUST black people waiting for the black Jesus to liberate them from they're white opressors, like in Writes Church....
You need to re think your faith if you buy into that nonsense.... Any of it..........
Take care....
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Snidely Whiplash;887229 wrote: You're just a hater, and everything you see is colored by Bush / Cheney..... Those are your "rose colored glasses", or more likely "hate colored glasses".....
And BTW, my church lifts it's people up, and gives us the spritual food all people need.... It doesn't shout down it's people and make them victims of the evil white man, or blame the government or Bush / Cheney for all our problems.... In my church and belief, we are ALL children of God, not JUST black people waiting for the black Jesus to liberate them from they're white opressors, like in Writes Church....
You need to re think your faith if you buy into that nonsense.... Any of it..........
Take care....
I'm the hater?
Sounds like your hating everthing that doesn't go your little way...
Have you ever been to trinity? Is that how you have come to such judgements?>
I truly hope thats the case,, because if not,, it is you that need to re-think everthing framed in your world,,Judge not,,lest,,,etc etc...
Now heres the kicker,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I am here to help you!!!!!!!!!!
I know no one that walks upright be perfect,,,,,,, but to judge any is the mistake of all mankind,,, this is what gives you away in my mind,, if thats all you can do is admit to a belief and then deny it in the same breath,,,, tells me you watched as they nailed him up,,, and agreed with the blind majority!
Fear not,, for I am with you,,, and you still have time to open your eyes to the light which is all around you,,, you merely have to figure out yourself before you may see why it is you are still of the blind...:-6
And BTW, my church lifts it's people up, and gives us the spritual food all people need.... It doesn't shout down it's people and make them victims of the evil white man, or blame the government or Bush / Cheney for all our problems.... In my church and belief, we are ALL children of God, not JUST black people waiting for the black Jesus to liberate them from they're white opressors, like in Writes Church....
You need to re think your faith if you buy into that nonsense.... Any of it..........
Take care....
I'm the hater?
Sounds like your hating everthing that doesn't go your little way...
Have you ever been to trinity? Is that how you have come to such judgements?>
I truly hope thats the case,, because if not,, it is you that need to re-think everthing framed in your world,,Judge not,,lest,,,etc etc...
Now heres the kicker,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I am here to help you!!!!!!!!!!
I know no one that walks upright be perfect,,,,,,, but to judge any is the mistake of all mankind,,, this is what gives you away in my mind,, if thats all you can do is admit to a belief and then deny it in the same breath,,,, tells me you watched as they nailed him up,,, and agreed with the blind majority!
Fear not,, for I am with you,,, and you still have time to open your eyes to the light which is all around you,,, you merely have to figure out yourself before you may see why it is you are still of the blind...:-6
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Snidely Whiplash
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:33 pm
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Look, my little dweebish friend, I don't need you to help me...???
How do I HATE everything that doesn't go my way...??? What on earth are you talking about...????????
Have i ever been to Trinity....??? No, but I've never been to a KKK meeting either, so are you saying that I also don't understand the KKK and should go to a few meetings and get an earful of that equally evil jibberish, which was a creation of the leftist democrats that you are endorsing................. Lol, Yes, the liberal Dem's created the KKK to endorse the Democratic party, before it took a racial turn........ Yes, the liberal dem's fought civil rights and the end of segregation even until the 50's- early 60's, and it was the conservitives that forced CIVIL RIGHTS and ENDED SLAVERY, and the beloved party of todays black majority(the democratic party) was never in support of you, never wanted YOU to have equal rights...... It was US CONSERVITIVES who freed you and made possible your rights of today...... There is still a USA Liberal dem Senetor that was a KKK leader serving, and you ignore that fact and still slam the party that broke down the racial barrier back in the 50's-60's........
Shame on you for not knowing your facts...!!!!!! :sneaky::sneaky:
but to judge any is the mistake of all mankind,,, this is what gives you away in my mind,,
Gives me away in your mind as what.....????????????????????? A believer in God that we ALL are created in God's image, and are ALLLLLLLLLL children of God, and ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL loved by God equaly....??? What does that give away about me......? That the God that loves you, also loves me...... Equaly......??? That WE MUST judge others by thier words and acts to know them....? Gives me away as what....?
My beliefs would send J. Write and rev Otis Moss back to the ministry drawing board wouldn't it, instead of being the racist, hate-mongering black supremists that they have proven themselves to be by thier own words...????????????????????????????????????????? : By they're own words they are condemned....... It's not my view, it's biblical, from the BIBLE that these men preach from, but have been PERVERTED away from by racist ignorant hateful views..... Views I will not support, or cozy up to you for sharing.... Ooooooooh, does that make me a hater....???? I feeeeel so bad for being so intollorant...... :wah:
They are hate mongers, and perverting the truth about God, and if YOU endorse them, you are doing the same....!!!!!!
How do I HATE everything that doesn't go my way...??? What on earth are you talking about...????????
Have i ever been to Trinity....??? No, but I've never been to a KKK meeting either, so are you saying that I also don't understand the KKK and should go to a few meetings and get an earful of that equally evil jibberish, which was a creation of the leftist democrats that you are endorsing.................
Lol, Yes, the liberal Dem's created the KKK to endorse the Democratic party, before it took a racial turn........ Yes, the liberal dem's fought civil rights and the end of segregation even until the 50's- early 60's, and it was the conservitives that forced CIVIL RIGHTS and ENDED SLAVERY, and the beloved party of todays black majority(the democratic party) was never in support of you, never wanted YOU to have equal rights...... It was US CONSERVITIVES who freed you and made possible your rights of today...... There is still a USA Liberal dem Senetor that was a KKK leader serving, and you ignore that fact and still slam the party that broke down the racial barrier back in the 50's-60's........ Shame on you for not knowing your facts...!!!!!! :sneaky::sneaky:
but to judge any is the mistake of all mankind,,, this is what gives you away in my mind,,
Gives me away in your mind as what.....????????????????????? A believer in God that we ALL are created in God's image, and are ALLLLLLLLLL children of God, and ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL loved by God equaly....??? What does that give away about me......? That the God that loves you, also loves me...... Equaly......??? That WE MUST judge others by thier words and acts to know them....? Gives me away as what....?
My beliefs would send J. Write and rev Otis Moss back to the ministry drawing board wouldn't it, instead of being the racist, hate-mongering black supremists that they have proven themselves to be by thier own words...????????????????????????????????????????? : By they're own words they are condemned....... It's not my view, it's biblical, from the BIBLE that these men preach from, but have been PERVERTED away from by racist ignorant hateful views..... Views I will not support, or cozy up to you for sharing.... Ooooooooh, does that make me a hater....???? I feeeeel so bad for being so intollorant...... :wah:
They are hate mongers, and perverting the truth about God, and if YOU endorse them, you are doing the same....!!!!!!
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
May God preserve me!!!!!
"Put downs" have no place in an honest discussion or debate and especially within a discussion or debate on a religious topic. None of us has the ultimate truth and likely never will.
In all of the great faiths the founding tenets are justice (distributive) and compassion. No wonder we have problems in this world. We seem to have forgotten those basic tenets.
Shalom
Ted:-6
"Put downs" have no place in an honest discussion or debate and especially within a discussion or debate on a religious topic. None of us has the ultimate truth and likely never will.
In all of the great faiths the founding tenets are justice (distributive) and compassion. No wonder we have problems in this world. We seem to have forgotten those basic tenets.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Snidely Whiplash;887869 wrote: Look, my little dweebish friend, I don't need you to help me...???
The question you pose here is for you and you alone....
Dweeb? I looked it up-----Means leans to daRight,,,,hehehe
sw wrote:
How do I HATE everything that doesn't go my way...??? What on earth are you talking about...????????
Have i ever been to Trinity....??? No, but I've never been to a KKK meeting either, so are you saying that I also don't understand the KKK and should go to a few meetings and get an earful of that equally evil jibberish, which was a creation of the leftist democrats that you are endorsing................. Lol, Yes, the liberal Dem's created the KKK to endorse the Democratic party, before it took a racial turn........ Yes, the liberal dem's fought civil rights and the end of segregation even until the 50's- early 60's, and it was the conservitives that forced CIVIL RIGHTS and ENDED SLAVERY, and the beloved party of todays black majority(the democratic party) was never in support of you, never wanted YOU to have equal rights...... It was US CONSERVITIVES who freed you and made possible your rights of today...... There is still a USA Liberal dem Senetor that was a KKK leader serving, and you ignore that fact and still slam the party that broke down the racial barrier back in the 50's-60's........
Shame on you for not knowing your facts...!!!!!!
I know the facts,, of the past,, the problem is,, we are in the present..
I also see you mixing the past racial problems in America with this Black Christian church that you have never attended,, speaking about not knowing the facts,,
turn off The foxnews channel for a couple days partner,, you just might have a shot at some true understanding of what you have foolishly bought into...
sw wrote:
Gives me away in your mind as what.....????????????????????? A believer in God that we ALL are created in God's image, and are ALLLLLLLLLL children of God, and ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL loved by God equaly....??? What does that give away about me......? That the God that loves you, also loves me...... Equaly......??? That WE MUST judge others by thier words and acts to know them....? Gives me away as what....?
My beliefs would send J. Write and rev Otis Moss back to the ministry drawing board wouldn't it, instead of being the racist, hate-mongering black supremists that they have proven themselves to be by thier own words...????????????????????????????????????????? : By they're own words they are condemned....... It's not my view, it's biblical, from the BIBLE that these men preach from, but have been PERVERTED away from by racist ignorant hateful views..... Views I will not support, or cozy up to you for sharing.... Ooooooooh, does that make me a hater....???? I feeeeel so bad for being so intollorant...... :wah:
They are hate mongers, and perverting the truth about God, and if YOU endorse them, you are doing the same....!!!!!!
Why do you sound so much like Rev Wright,, the one you think you know anyway.
All I can say to your racial problem is maybe if you had to walk in a Black americans shoes for a day or so you just might join the rest of a civilization ready to make progress on the misunderstandings of the racial divides that are merely just different perspectives of life that when joined create a truth that heals..
You seem to be confusing "understanding" with "endorsing"....
Ted wrote:
May God preserve me!!!!!
"Put downs" have no place in an honest discussion or debate and especially within a discussion or debate on a religious topic. None of us has the ultimate truth and likely never will.
In all of the great faiths the founding tenets are justice (distributive) and compassion. No wonder we have problems in this world. We seem to have forgotten those basic tenets.
Exactly,,,, I have moments myself where I forget my belief while in discussion,, so I understand when people are effected negatively by my truth,, feeling as if I think less of them for something...
I have come to the part of my journey where I believe the keys to understanding are within,, and not out of any other church, book, newspaper, country, or man/woman...
We learn the truth by walking the path of it,,,,in the shoes of us all...
The question you pose here is for you and you alone....
Dweeb? I looked it up-----Means leans to daRight,,,,hehehe
sw wrote:
How do I HATE everything that doesn't go my way...??? What on earth are you talking about...????????
Have i ever been to Trinity....??? No, but I've never been to a KKK meeting either, so are you saying that I also don't understand the KKK and should go to a few meetings and get an earful of that equally evil jibberish, which was a creation of the leftist democrats that you are endorsing................. Lol, Yes, the liberal Dem's created the KKK to endorse the Democratic party, before it took a racial turn........ Yes, the liberal dem's fought civil rights and the end of segregation even until the 50's- early 60's, and it was the conservitives that forced CIVIL RIGHTS and ENDED SLAVERY, and the beloved party of todays black majority(the democratic party) was never in support of you, never wanted YOU to have equal rights...... It was US CONSERVITIVES who freed you and made possible your rights of today...... There is still a USA Liberal dem Senetor that was a KKK leader serving, and you ignore that fact and still slam the party that broke down the racial barrier back in the 50's-60's........
Shame on you for not knowing your facts...!!!!!!
I know the facts,, of the past,, the problem is,, we are in the present..
I also see you mixing the past racial problems in America with this Black Christian church that you have never attended,, speaking about not knowing the facts,,
turn off The foxnews channel for a couple days partner,, you just might have a shot at some true understanding of what you have foolishly bought into...
sw wrote:
Gives me away in your mind as what.....????????????????????? A believer in God that we ALL are created in God's image, and are ALLLLLLLLLL children of God, and ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL loved by God equaly....??? What does that give away about me......? That the God that loves you, also loves me...... Equaly......??? That WE MUST judge others by thier words and acts to know them....? Gives me away as what....?
My beliefs would send J. Write and rev Otis Moss back to the ministry drawing board wouldn't it, instead of being the racist, hate-mongering black supremists that they have proven themselves to be by thier own words...????????????????????????????????????????? : By they're own words they are condemned....... It's not my view, it's biblical, from the BIBLE that these men preach from, but have been PERVERTED away from by racist ignorant hateful views..... Views I will not support, or cozy up to you for sharing.... Ooooooooh, does that make me a hater....???? I feeeeel so bad for being so intollorant...... :wah:
They are hate mongers, and perverting the truth about God, and if YOU endorse them, you are doing the same....!!!!!!
Why do you sound so much like Rev Wright,, the one you think you know anyway.
All I can say to your racial problem is maybe if you had to walk in a Black americans shoes for a day or so you just might join the rest of a civilization ready to make progress on the misunderstandings of the racial divides that are merely just different perspectives of life that when joined create a truth that heals..
You seem to be confusing "understanding" with "endorsing"....
Ted wrote:
May God preserve me!!!!!
"Put downs" have no place in an honest discussion or debate and especially within a discussion or debate on a religious topic. None of us has the ultimate truth and likely never will.
In all of the great faiths the founding tenets are justice (distributive) and compassion. No wonder we have problems in this world. We seem to have forgotten those basic tenets.
Exactly,,,, I have moments myself where I forget my belief while in discussion,, so I understand when people are effected negatively by my truth,, feeling as if I think less of them for something...
I have come to the part of my journey where I believe the keys to understanding are within,, and not out of any other church, book, newspaper, country, or man/woman...
We learn the truth by walking the path of it,,,,in the shoes of us all...
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;886525 wrote: OH! By the way,, Rev Wright was quoting a United States Ambassador appointed by GWB himself when he was recorded saying those words you claim EVIL!
5 yrs ago!
Careful playing fast & loose with the facts, Doc. The Ambassador never said the US created HIV for genocide.
5 yrs ago!
Careful playing fast & loose with the facts, Doc. The Ambassador never said the US created HIV for genocide.
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Accountable;889747 wrote: Careful playing fast & loose with the facts, Doc. The Ambassador never said the US created HIV for genocide.
As usual,,, your right teach,,:yh_eyebro
BUT!!!
The clip that was shown to millions of Americans,, was,,
GD AMERICA! GD AMERICA!
GD AMERICA! GD AMERICA!
GD AMERICA! GD AMERICA!
Not his words,,,
This is the mechanics of the spin zone at work,,,
you bought into this comment,, it made you search for anything that doesn't fit your perspective of truth,, made you look for a just reason to condemn!
I think people don't realize what actually has been played for them,,
A reason other than skin color to judge a another man,, candidate, preacher,,
How nice for all the scared white closet racists,, in this country, don't you think?
For this reason I cannot respect anything from the right wing,,
who are running up our debt and at the same time making sure the less fortunate have to pay for it ....(the reason I think they must stoop so low to get votes in the first place)
Show me something anywhere close to this low grade hit job by the right besides the closet republicans the Clintons are,, in this day and age, and I will feel the same about them...
I have to say though,, I am surprised how a lot of people have been able to see this for what it truly was,, and for those that didn't,,, but never tied it to Obama, which is the only,,,only reason it was an issue in the first place.... Racism is a disease,, I see this at ground level,, I am a white man,, who knows racism goes a bit deeper than skin color in some folks,, the retarted judgements of any race is a problem for us all,, and the first sign of a racist,, is in those that find it easy to throw that label at anyone,, which is home base in the mind of any political strategist whose candidate can't win on truth alone,,,clouding the minds on the fence is the name of da game....
Now after saying that I have to ask myself,,,Have I ever called anyone a racist?
When I was younger,, I couldn't trust anyone,, imagine my surprise when I finally figured out why!
The right,, will be outed for who they really are,, before this election is over,,
I truly believe this,, no matter what anyone thinks about this issue..
Who knows,, maybe this issue in itself will expose these false patriots for trying to con their way thru an election by attacking a Black CHRISTIAN church!
BWA hahahahahahaha!:yh_rotfl:guitarist:guitarist
As usual,,, your right teach,,:yh_eyebro
BUT!!!
The clip that was shown to millions of Americans,, was,,
GD AMERICA! GD AMERICA!
GD AMERICA! GD AMERICA!
GD AMERICA! GD AMERICA!
Not his words,,,
This is the mechanics of the spin zone at work,,,
you bought into this comment,, it made you search for anything that doesn't fit your perspective of truth,, made you look for a just reason to condemn!
I think people don't realize what actually has been played for them,,
A reason other than skin color to judge a another man,, candidate, preacher,,
How nice for all the scared white closet racists,, in this country, don't you think?
For this reason I cannot respect anything from the right wing,,
who are running up our debt and at the same time making sure the less fortunate have to pay for it ....(the reason I think they must stoop so low to get votes in the first place)
Show me something anywhere close to this low grade hit job by the right besides the closet republicans the Clintons are,, in this day and age, and I will feel the same about them...
I have to say though,, I am surprised how a lot of people have been able to see this for what it truly was,, and for those that didn't,,, but never tied it to Obama, which is the only,,,only reason it was an issue in the first place.... Racism is a disease,, I see this at ground level,, I am a white man,, who knows racism goes a bit deeper than skin color in some folks,, the retarted judgements of any race is a problem for us all,, and the first sign of a racist,, is in those that find it easy to throw that label at anyone,, which is home base in the mind of any political strategist whose candidate can't win on truth alone,,,clouding the minds on the fence is the name of da game....
Now after saying that I have to ask myself,,,Have I ever called anyone a racist?
When I was younger,, I couldn't trust anyone,, imagine my surprise when I finally figured out why!
The right,, will be outed for who they really are,, before this election is over,,
I truly believe this,, no matter what anyone thinks about this issue..
Who knows,, maybe this issue in itself will expose these false patriots for trying to con their way thru an election by attacking a Black CHRISTIAN church!
BWA hahahahahahaha!:yh_rotfl:guitarist:guitarist
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ:-6
Not being an American I hesitate to comment on the political issues. However, I do believe that you are correct about the "right" wing Christians.
You mentioned the less fortunate. This is and always has been the result of empire. The rich get richer and the poor poorer. This is not new. The only problem is that we seem never to learn anything from history except we learn nothing from history. Perhaps we are condemned to repeating the same mistakes over and over and over,
. . . ..
Shalom
Ted:-6
Not being an American I hesitate to comment on the political issues. However, I do believe that you are correct about the "right" wing Christians.
You mentioned the less fortunate. This is and always has been the result of empire. The rich get richer and the poor poorer. This is not new. The only problem is that we seem never to learn anything from history except we learn nothing from history. Perhaps we are condemned to repeating the same mistakes over and over and over,
. . . ..
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Ted;890347 wrote: DrJ
Not being an American I hesitate to comment on the political issues. However, I do believe that you are correct about the "right" wing Christians.
You mentioned the less fortunate. This is and always has been the result of empire. The rich get richer and the poor poorer. This is not new. The only problem is that we seem never to learn anything from history except we learn nothing from history. Perhaps we are condemned to repeating the same mistakes over and over and over,
. . . ..
Shalom
Ted:-6
It's almost as if our destinys,, were written in stone,,long before we ever set foot on the path,, in every generation,, the predictable ending making it easier to plan for!
:-6,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-6........................:-6,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-6...............:-5
Not being an American I hesitate to comment on the political issues. However, I do believe that you are correct about the "right" wing Christians.
You mentioned the less fortunate. This is and always has been the result of empire. The rich get richer and the poor poorer. This is not new. The only problem is that we seem never to learn anything from history except we learn nothing from history. Perhaps we are condemned to repeating the same mistakes over and over and over,
. . . ..
Shalom
Ted:-6
It's almost as if our destinys,, were written in stone,,long before we ever set foot on the path,, in every generation,, the predictable ending making it easier to plan for!
:-6,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-6........................:-6,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-6...............:-5
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Ted;890347 wrote: You mentioned the less fortunate. This is and always has been the result of empire. The rich get richer and the poor poorer. This is not new.
It's also not true.
It's also not true.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;890333 wrote: This is the mechanics of the spin zone at work,,,
you bought into this comment,, it made you search for anything that doesn't fit your perspective of truth,, made you look for a just reason to condemn!
I'm going to try this one more time, though I'm really convinced you are incapable of changing your mind once it's made up. I haven't condemned anyone! I even took pains to point out positives about Wright nearly every time I lashed out about THAT ONE STATEMENT!
You have not "made" me do anything at all, any more than I've made you do anything. All I do and have done is by my choice, as is my choice to drop this thread.
you bought into this comment,, it made you search for anything that doesn't fit your perspective of truth,, made you look for a just reason to condemn!
I'm going to try this one more time, though I'm really convinced you are incapable of changing your mind once it's made up. I haven't condemned anyone! I even took pains to point out positives about Wright nearly every time I lashed out about THAT ONE STATEMENT!
You have not "made" me do anything at all, any more than I've made you do anything. All I do and have done is by my choice, as is my choice to drop this thread.
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Acc:-6
That you would suggest that what I've said is not true is certainly an opinion to which you are entitled. However, I stand by what I've said.
Shalom
Ted:-6
That you would suggest that what I've said is not true is certainly an opinion to which you are entitled. However, I stand by what I've said.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Accountable;890418 wrote: I'm going to try this one more time, though I'm really convinced you are incapable of changing your mind once it's made up. I haven't condemned anyone! I even took pains to point out positives about Wright nearly every time I lashed out about THAT ONE STATEMENT!
You have not "made" me do anything at all, any more than I've made you do anything. All I do and have done is by my choice, as is my choice to drop this thread.
What?
Alright now,, I know I've gotten a little busy,, but where did we go here to get your panties in such a wad?:wah:
There are so many different angles coming at me,, from this thread,, on other forums as well that maybe I'm neglecting some people,, I'm sorry about that,, but my frame of mind isn't personal to anyone in perticular,, I'm speaking to an attitude that truly goes from one end of the spectrum to the other,, and maybe some take this wrong..
My angle on the Reverend Jeremiah Wright issue comes from my disgust with political strategies that prey on the short-comings of the American voters attention span,, by jumping on anything that people might fear, or naturally judge
from a distant perspective that shows them how different other groups truly are when it comes to looking at government and how it effects such groups.
acc wrote:
Regardless of the original reasons, this American citizen has cried out some incredibly hateful things. Some of them have been explained away, but he stands beside this one.
This American citizen publicly accuses the United States government of purposely and maliciously developing and distributing a deadly virus with the express intent of genocide.... and repeatedly stands by his accusation without offering a shred of evidence. But because the color of his skin, this DrJ character thinks he deserves a pass -- because he spews his filth from a pulpit, a rebuttal is an unfair attack.
That pisses me off.
It shows clear bias and bigotry on the part of DrJ; my history here shows I have no tolerance for bigotry. Jeremiah Wright does not deserve a pass. Saying HIV is an American-made weapon of black genocide is not a Christian message. He is not speaking some code white people can't understand, and should keep quiet about. He is not above critique.
Jeremiah Wright is an adult citizen of my nation, deserving of the respect men give men. To make excuses based on his skin color pays vile and extreme disrespect - disrespect that comes from bigotry.
My reaction pays worlds more respect to Mr Wright than does that of DrJ.
Oh then shall I judge you as you have judged him,, by taking 1 sentence about aids to color the whole sermon with,, because you believe speaking the truth about what our goverment might be capable of, is a sin,, when it doesn't fit in with your rose colored glasses....
acc wrote:
because he spews his filth from a pulpit
"worlds more,,,,than DrJ"
Now ain't you something?
Worlds more,,, sounds like a child trying to fit in by declaring some kind of opinion advantage!
You condemned to help guide peoples minds away from the subjects in the sermon you did not like..
Drop the thread?
Ok white man,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but you will remember when the whole truth comes to light!
Adios!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
We are but God on earth in pieces,, blocked off temporarily by the shadow of the valley,, what I think of you,, I think of myself,, what I do to you,, I do to myself,, I and my father are one,,,
I am like God,, and God like me,,
I am as large as GOD,, GOD is as small as me,
GOD cannot above me,, nor me beneath GOD be!
JUDGE NOT!
RUN,,, RUN,,, RUN!
:guitarist
You have not "made" me do anything at all, any more than I've made you do anything. All I do and have done is by my choice, as is my choice to drop this thread.
What?
Alright now,, I know I've gotten a little busy,, but where did we go here to get your panties in such a wad?:wah:
There are so many different angles coming at me,, from this thread,, on other forums as well that maybe I'm neglecting some people,, I'm sorry about that,, but my frame of mind isn't personal to anyone in perticular,, I'm speaking to an attitude that truly goes from one end of the spectrum to the other,, and maybe some take this wrong..
My angle on the Reverend Jeremiah Wright issue comes from my disgust with political strategies that prey on the short-comings of the American voters attention span,, by jumping on anything that people might fear, or naturally judge
from a distant perspective that shows them how different other groups truly are when it comes to looking at government and how it effects such groups.
acc wrote:
Regardless of the original reasons, this American citizen has cried out some incredibly hateful things. Some of them have been explained away, but he stands beside this one.
This American citizen publicly accuses the United States government of purposely and maliciously developing and distributing a deadly virus with the express intent of genocide.... and repeatedly stands by his accusation without offering a shred of evidence. But because the color of his skin, this DrJ character thinks he deserves a pass -- because he spews his filth from a pulpit, a rebuttal is an unfair attack.
That pisses me off.
It shows clear bias and bigotry on the part of DrJ; my history here shows I have no tolerance for bigotry. Jeremiah Wright does not deserve a pass. Saying HIV is an American-made weapon of black genocide is not a Christian message. He is not speaking some code white people can't understand, and should keep quiet about. He is not above critique.
Jeremiah Wright is an adult citizen of my nation, deserving of the respect men give men. To make excuses based on his skin color pays vile and extreme disrespect - disrespect that comes from bigotry.
My reaction pays worlds more respect to Mr Wright than does that of DrJ.
Oh then shall I judge you as you have judged him,, by taking 1 sentence about aids to color the whole sermon with,, because you believe speaking the truth about what our goverment might be capable of, is a sin,, when it doesn't fit in with your rose colored glasses....
acc wrote:
because he spews his filth from a pulpit
"worlds more,,,,than DrJ"
Now ain't you something?
Worlds more,,, sounds like a child trying to fit in by declaring some kind of opinion advantage!
You condemned to help guide peoples minds away from the subjects in the sermon you did not like..
Drop the thread?
Ok white man,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but you will remember when the whole truth comes to light!
Adios!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
We are but God on earth in pieces,, blocked off temporarily by the shadow of the valley,, what I think of you,, I think of myself,, what I do to you,, I do to myself,, I and my father are one,,,
I am like God,, and God like me,,
I am as large as GOD,, GOD is as small as me,
GOD cannot above me,, nor me beneath GOD be!
JUDGE NOT!
RUN,,, RUN,,, RUN!
:guitarist
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
My fellow 5-2-7 Americans,,,
WAKE UP!
You have been sold a bill of goods,, the NEW WORLD ORDER/trickle down con of the century is merely in its beginning stages, as far as the destruction of the middle class is concerned...
The republican agenda has always been geared for business, and the well off,,, which is fine,, but this new generation of republican is finding it harder to justify their priorities that have no concern for the average middle class worker just trying to make a living in this very competitive world economy...
The republican agenda is bought and paid for by corporations who are competing with companies in countries whose middle class is more in line with the American poor,, which gives these companies an unfair advantage when it comes to labor costs....
Instead of strengthening our middle class, which is the backbone of the American economy,, they have taken the low road in trying to shrink it by shipping those jobs over seas taking full advantage of the terrible labor conditions,, and still selling those same products here in America... This is the problem with the NAFTA/CAFTA trade agreements that exclude American labor purposely.
Right now 70% of the worlds riches is controlled by 30% of the population,, which leaves 30% of riches to be split by the remaining 70% of the people,, so what happens is the people who latch on the riches,,, ass kissers,, gold diggers and what not,, who aren't of the rich,, and still want to vote for these uncaring,, unfeeling money making machines the corporations are,, which the republican agenda represents,, needs in my opinion to be shipped to Iraq,, or put in mental institutions,, because they are the ones that will never see, until it effects them,, way to late,, if you ask me..
IN OTHER WORDS
From the neck of the Dragon
WAKE UP!
You have been sold a bill of goods,, the NEW WORLD ORDER/trickle down con of the century is merely in its beginning stages, as far as the destruction of the middle class is concerned...
The republican agenda has always been geared for business, and the well off,,, which is fine,, but this new generation of republican is finding it harder to justify their priorities that have no concern for the average middle class worker just trying to make a living in this very competitive world economy...
The republican agenda is bought and paid for by corporations who are competing with companies in countries whose middle class is more in line with the American poor,, which gives these companies an unfair advantage when it comes to labor costs....
Instead of strengthening our middle class, which is the backbone of the American economy,, they have taken the low road in trying to shrink it by shipping those jobs over seas taking full advantage of the terrible labor conditions,, and still selling those same products here in America... This is the problem with the NAFTA/CAFTA trade agreements that exclude American labor purposely.
Right now 70% of the worlds riches is controlled by 30% of the population,, which leaves 30% of riches to be split by the remaining 70% of the people,, so what happens is the people who latch on the riches,,, ass kissers,, gold diggers and what not,, who aren't of the rich,, and still want to vote for these uncaring,, unfeeling money making machines the corporations are,, which the republican agenda represents,, needs in my opinion to be shipped to Iraq,, or put in mental institutions,, because they are the ones that will never see, until it effects them,, way to late,, if you ask me..
IN OTHER WORDS
From the neck of the Dragon
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ:-6
I think most of your observations and interpretations are quite accurate. I cannot speak to everything you write as I do not live in the US and do not have direct knowledge of it.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I think most of your observations and interpretations are quite accurate. I cannot speak to everything you write as I do not live in the US and do not have direct knowledge of it.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Ted;898899 wrote: DrJ:-6
I think most of your observations and interpretations are quite accurate. I cannot speak to everything you write as I do not live in the US and do not have direct knowledge of it.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Ted,, I appreciate that,, but anyone who is paying attention to the world can easily see these things,, its those that get their opinions from others that have the issues confused..
I can see clearly that the right wings of all religions are exactly the same..
there is no difference in their interpretations of their respective religions...
Except for the part about killing infidels,, and the Christians are the ones claiming they wouldn't but do anyway,, sometimes I get the hint that maybe ,,,just maybe,, terrorism is someones plan,, for the benefit of both sides..
Certain pieces of CORPORATE WORLD,,, anyway....
Blaming religious beliefs merely a diversion,, as is racism in the class war being waged against those with no voice..
I've been watching since the fist gulf war... the show of shows on earth today!
The middle class of America is being shrunk right in front of everyone...
Waking up,,, isn't easy,, if you think your awake already,,,
who knows,, maybe it is I,, who is sleeping,,,hehehe
I think most of your observations and interpretations are quite accurate. I cannot speak to everything you write as I do not live in the US and do not have direct knowledge of it.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Ted,, I appreciate that,, but anyone who is paying attention to the world can easily see these things,, its those that get their opinions from others that have the issues confused..
I can see clearly that the right wings of all religions are exactly the same..
there is no difference in their interpretations of their respective religions...
Except for the part about killing infidels,, and the Christians are the ones claiming they wouldn't but do anyway,, sometimes I get the hint that maybe ,,,just maybe,, terrorism is someones plan,, for the benefit of both sides..
Certain pieces of CORPORATE WORLD,,, anyway....
Blaming religious beliefs merely a diversion,, as is racism in the class war being waged against those with no voice..
I've been watching since the fist gulf war... the show of shows on earth today!
The middle class of America is being shrunk right in front of everyone...
Waking up,,, isn't easy,, if you think your awake already,,,
who knows,, maybe it is I,, who is sleeping,,,hehehe
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ:-6
It seems that Acc. does not agree that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Unfortunately the statistics and the news casts tell us otherwise. With some 10% of the world's population using some 85% of the world's resources it can't be otherwise.
Jesus talked of justice. A reading of Philo, who lived at the time of Jesus and Paul, wrote that justice was an equality issue, a distributive issue. Jesus was speaking of the equitable sharing of all the world's resources. That millions around the world are dying of starvation is a moral issue that needs to be addressed by the "have" nations.
Shalom
Ted:-6
It seems that Acc. does not agree that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Unfortunately the statistics and the news casts tell us otherwise. With some 10% of the world's population using some 85% of the world's resources it can't be otherwise.
Jesus talked of justice. A reading of Philo, who lived at the time of Jesus and Paul, wrote that justice was an equality issue, a distributive issue. Jesus was speaking of the equitable sharing of all the world's resources. That millions around the world are dying of starvation is a moral issue that needs to be addressed by the "have" nations.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Ted;905867 wrote: DrJ:-6
It seems that Acc. does not agree that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Unfortunately the statistics and the news casts tell us otherwise. With some 10% of the world's population using some 85% of the world's resources it can't be otherwise.
Jesus talked of justice. A reading of Philo, who lived at the time of Jesus and Paul, wrote that justice was an equality issue, a distributive issue. Jesus was speaking of the equitable sharing of all the world's resources. That millions around the world are dying of starvation is a moral issue that needs to be addressed by the "have" nations.
Shalom
Ted:-6
America's income gap grows; rich get richer
Wealthiest 20% account for 50% of U.S. income, Census shows
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER STAFF AND NEWS SERVICES
Over two decades, the income gap has steadily increased between the richest Americans, who own homes and stocks and got big tax breaks, and those at the middle and bottom of the pay scale, whose paychecks buy less.
The growing disparity is even more pronounced in this recovering economy. Wages are stagnant, and the middle class is shouldering a larger tax burden. Prices for health care, housing, tuition, gas and food have soared.
The wealthiest 20 percent of households in 1973 accounted for 44 percent of total U.S. income, according to the Census Bureau. Their share jumped to 50 percent in 2002, while everyone else's fell. For the bottom fifth, the share dropped from 4.2 percent to 3.5 percent.
Jobs and the economy top the list of voter concerns this election year. President Bush touts a strong economy that is growing, but polls find that Americans have doubts and think jobs are scarce. John Kerry is trusted more on the economy, with Democrats talking regularly of "two Americas," divided between the rich and everyone else.
That argument has merit, some private economists say.
"For those working in the bottom half of the pay scale, they're under an enormous amount of pressure," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com.
New government data also show that Bush's tax cuts have shifted the overall tax burden to the middle class from the wealthiest Americans.
"We're just trying to get ahead." said Debbie Reames, 49, of Raytown, Mo., whose bank job of 24 years was sent overseas in February. "But it seems like we climb a few rungs and then we fall back again."
Reames has a new secretarial job, which pays $7,000 a year less than her bank job, and she works catering jobs for extra money. Her husband, Russ, can no longer work after an injury. One son is finishing college and another will start in the fall.
So the family budget tightened. That meant fewer cable channels, more meals at home, postponed doctor appointments, missed vacations, delayed credit card payments, all to "keep the wolf away from the door," she said.
The U.S. jobs market is soft, sending wages down. Hiring came to a near standstill last month, with companies adding just 32,000 new jobs overall, stunning economists who had expected seven times as many.
More than a million jobs have been added back to the 2.6 million lost since Bush took office, but they pay less and offer fewer benefits, such as health insurance.
And the Seattle area has yet to recapture all the jobs it lost after the tech collapse and Boeing Co. slump. The region lost 95,400 jobs in the two-and-a-half year recession, and had only regained 26,500 by the end of June, according to an analysis by Employment Security Department economist Roberta Pauer.
Local workers and union members said yesterday they have felt the financial pinch in recent years.
Chuck Hughes, business manager for the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers Local 104, said his membership has dwindled to about 800 working members -- from more than 40,000 in 1945.
Perhaps more tellingly, those workers still employed -- mostly area shipyard mechanics and welders -- are making only little more than they were 20 years ago, especially when inflation is taken into account.
"Our wages have not only stagnated, they've actually gone backwards," said Hughes, who started his career as a shipyard welder 25 years ago.
Journeymen boilermakers earn roughly $17-18 per hour, Hughes said, including the $2 per hour they now have to kick in for health insurance costs.
In the mid 1980s, the same workers earned $13.50 per hour, he said.
Hughes echoed the Raytown, Mo., bank worker's fears that employers are moving many jobs overseas, where labor costs are cheaper.
"I see guys coming into this hall every day -- every day -- having to leave, and frankly, it's all they know," said Hughes. "You look at a man straight in the face and you don't know where they're going to go."
Eleni Henry, a member of the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees Union Local 8, is also the proprietor of Zoey Blueplate Bistro, a restaurant and bar in the basement of the Labor Temple.
Two years ago, she said, she employed more than a dozen workers. Business was solid.
But largely because of downward economic trends that have forced stagnant wages, layoffs and jobs moving overseas, there simply aren't as many workers doing business in her building, which is home to dozens of local unions.
Now she is down to four workers.
"We're hurting tremendously, and we shouldn't be," Henry said.
Across the country, what new jobs exist are concentrated in health care, food services and temporary employment firms, all lower-paying industries. Temp agencies alone account for about a fifth of all new jobs.
Three in five pay below the national median hourly wage -- $13.53, said Sung Won Sohn, chief economist for Wells Fargo.
On a weekly basis, the average U.S. wage of $525.84 is at the lowest level since October 2001.
In Washington, wages (adjusted for inflation) have remained relatively stable in recent years, standing at $37,397 in 2001 and 2002, and dropping slightly to $37,205 last year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The figures are all in 2001 dollars.
Washington workers, though, fared better than many others, as the state boasted the 11th highest private sector wages in the country, the bureau reported.
Across the nation the income gap is showing up in booming sales of luxury items.
Porsche Cars North America Inc. says sales are up 17 percent for the year. Strong sales at Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom and Saks Fifth Avenue overshadow lackluster sales at stores such as Wal-Mart, Sears and Payless Shoes.
Economists say wages should rise as companies boost hiring. But the growing gap between the haves and have-nots will remain.
Technology has eliminated many U.S. jobs, as has global competition, particularly from low-wage countries such as China.
Highly skilled, educated workers in America will thrive as demand rises, Sohn said, while low-skilled jobs remain vulnerable to outsourcing.
"This really has nothing to do with Bush or Kerry, but more to do with the longer-term shift in the structure of the economy," Sohn said.
P-I reporters Paul Nyhan and Sam Skolnik contributed to this report by The Associated Press.
===================================================
Acc lives in his own little world,, which is fine,, but someday it may effect his perspective enough that he will discover the obvious,, or not..
The facts are out there,,, it's just a matter of putting 2 & 2 together,, I totally understand wanting to think better of things,, but the facts speak for themselves,
and that is,, corporate America is competing with corporate World,, with countries whose workers are used to nothing compared to the labor force in America...
My beef comes from the fact that taking the low road,, by taking away from labor is shooting America in the foot, but the machine doesn't worry how it makes money,, or the consequences of any decisions it makes now like instead of expecting Countries to treat workers better, America is treating its workers worse, by trying to get them to expect less, while the company expects more.
You have to understand,,, some benefit packages for labor in America is more than what workers in other countries see in 5 years or more.. I have to think when the American government starts some kind of healthcare program for its citizens the companies will be relieved,, and this all out war on the middle class will be lessoned,,, unless greed gets the better of them... I'm hoping anyway!
Acc seems to believe we are solely responsible for our own conditions in this life, and he is right for some,, but this subject you bring up,, about the haves vs the have nots,,, kind of disputes this philosophy,, and the moral dilemma of the haves
is to part with some of their hard earned success with the attitude that this is something that should naturally happen...
Imagine for a moment,, seeing the world through the eyes of those who have everything and explaining the have nots as merely ignorant people who weren't smart enough to get theirs,, and then finding out how much you were responsible for keeping the poor as they are by refusing to help..
I know,, I know,, I'm crazy,, but I wouldn't want to be that way,, or have to face anything close to that,, My interpretation of the life of a man like Christ, is that he was trying to tell us that we are all connected in someway that is hidden to the physical eye, and what we do to others,, we do to him,, or ourselves whichever you prefer. Hence,, we are but GOD on earth in pieces...
I and my father are ONE.
I believe people need to realize they have more of a stake in the suffering of all people than they presently realize,, but until they do,, things will never change...
Money is the false God that keeps people slow to realize,,,.anything...
A work in progress,, I am,, is all I am sure about..
It seems that Acc. does not agree that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Unfortunately the statistics and the news casts tell us otherwise. With some 10% of the world's population using some 85% of the world's resources it can't be otherwise.
Jesus talked of justice. A reading of Philo, who lived at the time of Jesus and Paul, wrote that justice was an equality issue, a distributive issue. Jesus was speaking of the equitable sharing of all the world's resources. That millions around the world are dying of starvation is a moral issue that needs to be addressed by the "have" nations.
Shalom
Ted:-6
America's income gap grows; rich get richer
Wealthiest 20% account for 50% of U.S. income, Census shows
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER STAFF AND NEWS SERVICES
Over two decades, the income gap has steadily increased between the richest Americans, who own homes and stocks and got big tax breaks, and those at the middle and bottom of the pay scale, whose paychecks buy less.
The growing disparity is even more pronounced in this recovering economy. Wages are stagnant, and the middle class is shouldering a larger tax burden. Prices for health care, housing, tuition, gas and food have soared.
The wealthiest 20 percent of households in 1973 accounted for 44 percent of total U.S. income, according to the Census Bureau. Their share jumped to 50 percent in 2002, while everyone else's fell. For the bottom fifth, the share dropped from 4.2 percent to 3.5 percent.
Jobs and the economy top the list of voter concerns this election year. President Bush touts a strong economy that is growing, but polls find that Americans have doubts and think jobs are scarce. John Kerry is trusted more on the economy, with Democrats talking regularly of "two Americas," divided between the rich and everyone else.
That argument has merit, some private economists say.
"For those working in the bottom half of the pay scale, they're under an enormous amount of pressure," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com.
New government data also show that Bush's tax cuts have shifted the overall tax burden to the middle class from the wealthiest Americans.
"We're just trying to get ahead." said Debbie Reames, 49, of Raytown, Mo., whose bank job of 24 years was sent overseas in February. "But it seems like we climb a few rungs and then we fall back again."
Reames has a new secretarial job, which pays $7,000 a year less than her bank job, and she works catering jobs for extra money. Her husband, Russ, can no longer work after an injury. One son is finishing college and another will start in the fall.
So the family budget tightened. That meant fewer cable channels, more meals at home, postponed doctor appointments, missed vacations, delayed credit card payments, all to "keep the wolf away from the door," she said.
The U.S. jobs market is soft, sending wages down. Hiring came to a near standstill last month, with companies adding just 32,000 new jobs overall, stunning economists who had expected seven times as many.
More than a million jobs have been added back to the 2.6 million lost since Bush took office, but they pay less and offer fewer benefits, such as health insurance.
And the Seattle area has yet to recapture all the jobs it lost after the tech collapse and Boeing Co. slump. The region lost 95,400 jobs in the two-and-a-half year recession, and had only regained 26,500 by the end of June, according to an analysis by Employment Security Department economist Roberta Pauer.
Local workers and union members said yesterday they have felt the financial pinch in recent years.
Chuck Hughes, business manager for the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers Local 104, said his membership has dwindled to about 800 working members -- from more than 40,000 in 1945.
Perhaps more tellingly, those workers still employed -- mostly area shipyard mechanics and welders -- are making only little more than they were 20 years ago, especially when inflation is taken into account.
"Our wages have not only stagnated, they've actually gone backwards," said Hughes, who started his career as a shipyard welder 25 years ago.
Journeymen boilermakers earn roughly $17-18 per hour, Hughes said, including the $2 per hour they now have to kick in for health insurance costs.
In the mid 1980s, the same workers earned $13.50 per hour, he said.
Hughes echoed the Raytown, Mo., bank worker's fears that employers are moving many jobs overseas, where labor costs are cheaper.
"I see guys coming into this hall every day -- every day -- having to leave, and frankly, it's all they know," said Hughes. "You look at a man straight in the face and you don't know where they're going to go."
Eleni Henry, a member of the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees Union Local 8, is also the proprietor of Zoey Blueplate Bistro, a restaurant and bar in the basement of the Labor Temple.
Two years ago, she said, she employed more than a dozen workers. Business was solid.
But largely because of downward economic trends that have forced stagnant wages, layoffs and jobs moving overseas, there simply aren't as many workers doing business in her building, which is home to dozens of local unions.
Now she is down to four workers.
"We're hurting tremendously, and we shouldn't be," Henry said.
Across the country, what new jobs exist are concentrated in health care, food services and temporary employment firms, all lower-paying industries. Temp agencies alone account for about a fifth of all new jobs.
Three in five pay below the national median hourly wage -- $13.53, said Sung Won Sohn, chief economist for Wells Fargo.
On a weekly basis, the average U.S. wage of $525.84 is at the lowest level since October 2001.
In Washington, wages (adjusted for inflation) have remained relatively stable in recent years, standing at $37,397 in 2001 and 2002, and dropping slightly to $37,205 last year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The figures are all in 2001 dollars.
Washington workers, though, fared better than many others, as the state boasted the 11th highest private sector wages in the country, the bureau reported.
Across the nation the income gap is showing up in booming sales of luxury items.
Porsche Cars North America Inc. says sales are up 17 percent for the year. Strong sales at Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom and Saks Fifth Avenue overshadow lackluster sales at stores such as Wal-Mart, Sears and Payless Shoes.
Economists say wages should rise as companies boost hiring. But the growing gap between the haves and have-nots will remain.
Technology has eliminated many U.S. jobs, as has global competition, particularly from low-wage countries such as China.
Highly skilled, educated workers in America will thrive as demand rises, Sohn said, while low-skilled jobs remain vulnerable to outsourcing.
"This really has nothing to do with Bush or Kerry, but more to do with the longer-term shift in the structure of the economy," Sohn said.
P-I reporters Paul Nyhan and Sam Skolnik contributed to this report by The Associated Press.
===================================================
Acc lives in his own little world,, which is fine,, but someday it may effect his perspective enough that he will discover the obvious,, or not..
The facts are out there,,, it's just a matter of putting 2 & 2 together,, I totally understand wanting to think better of things,, but the facts speak for themselves,
and that is,, corporate America is competing with corporate World,, with countries whose workers are used to nothing compared to the labor force in America...
My beef comes from the fact that taking the low road,, by taking away from labor is shooting America in the foot, but the machine doesn't worry how it makes money,, or the consequences of any decisions it makes now like instead of expecting Countries to treat workers better, America is treating its workers worse, by trying to get them to expect less, while the company expects more.
You have to understand,,, some benefit packages for labor in America is more than what workers in other countries see in 5 years or more.. I have to think when the American government starts some kind of healthcare program for its citizens the companies will be relieved,, and this all out war on the middle class will be lessoned,,, unless greed gets the better of them... I'm hoping anyway!
Acc seems to believe we are solely responsible for our own conditions in this life, and he is right for some,, but this subject you bring up,, about the haves vs the have nots,,, kind of disputes this philosophy,, and the moral dilemma of the haves
is to part with some of their hard earned success with the attitude that this is something that should naturally happen...
Imagine for a moment,, seeing the world through the eyes of those who have everything and explaining the have nots as merely ignorant people who weren't smart enough to get theirs,, and then finding out how much you were responsible for keeping the poor as they are by refusing to help..
I know,, I know,, I'm crazy,, but I wouldn't want to be that way,, or have to face anything close to that,, My interpretation of the life of a man like Christ, is that he was trying to tell us that we are all connected in someway that is hidden to the physical eye, and what we do to others,, we do to him,, or ourselves whichever you prefer. Hence,, we are but GOD on earth in pieces...
I and my father are ONE.
I believe people need to realize they have more of a stake in the suffering of all people than they presently realize,, but until they do,, things will never change...
Money is the false God that keeps people slow to realize,,,.anything...
A work in progress,, I am,, is all I am sure about..
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Because they fear the powers that be , Personaly , I feel Rev Wright was speaking to truth , And the powers that be knew he was telling the truth so they flip things around as they always do .
Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Daniyal;907296 wrote: Because they fear the powers that be , Personaly , I feel Rev Wright was speaking to truth , And the powers that be knew he was telling the truth so they flip things around as they always do .
Hi Daniyal,,,
I believe this is the eventual truth that will come out,, and those that have jumped on this negative band-wagon against him will be sorry they didn't take a closer look at this issue,, before they rushed to judgement.. I do think some couldn't wait to find a reason to go against a Black candidate besides the fact of his skin color,,,My own personal opinion,,,and I am a white man...
When the truth of how they flipped,, or spun this sermon to sound anti-American like they did is exposed,, we will maybe finally realize who America's enemies truly are,, in the American political arena,,, and also in the media,, where some get up every morning to come to work with an agenda of dividing a nation just to get a weaker candidate elected...
Personally,,, I have never heard of someone going after a preacher to effect an election, I find it interesting they chose now to do it, since we now have a Black man that is showing the potential to possibly win in Nov..
Their desparation was showing when they decided they must play the race card so early,, by introducing the Black Church experience,, to white America,, which was obviously unfamiliar to many,, and the result was very predictable... The fact that it did not defeat Obama,, I think, is a credit to the education and progress of the American people understanding,, rather than fearing this issue..
But there are still those that would let their fears,, like you say,, drive their thinking..
I believe the key to finding out the truth of why it all happen, is remembering the circumstances of the election at the time... He was winniong big...
I have trouble not including the Hillary campaign with the right wing media in choosing this type of attack against the Senator from Illinois...
They have tried to attach Rev Wright to the white preachers of the right wing christian fundamentalist,, like Hagee as a peddler of nutso,, after it did not succeed in stopping Obama,,, just to get people away from the truths he spoke of,, and all he was doing was trying to make a point to his congregation,, that you cannot take any politicians words at face value,, that maybe we should judge the actions of the "powers that be" rather than what comes from their mouths..
I know this,,, when you feel you want someone to understand something important,, sometimes,, you might have to get a little extreme in the way you express your point.. I believe this is all he is guilty of,, trying to educate,,, help his fellow Americans understand that maybe,, just maybe,,, GOVERNMENTS DO LIE!
Educating the vote,,, you would think,,, would be considered helping America...
Some of what these so-called American Christians understand,, baffles me...
What are they paying attention to,, anyway? Am I crazy?
I believe Americans number one enemy is like you said,,,FEAR!!!
Hi Daniyal,,,
I believe this is the eventual truth that will come out,, and those that have jumped on this negative band-wagon against him will be sorry they didn't take a closer look at this issue,, before they rushed to judgement.. I do think some couldn't wait to find a reason to go against a Black candidate besides the fact of his skin color,,,My own personal opinion,,,and I am a white man...
When the truth of how they flipped,, or spun this sermon to sound anti-American like they did is exposed,, we will maybe finally realize who America's enemies truly are,, in the American political arena,,, and also in the media,, where some get up every morning to come to work with an agenda of dividing a nation just to get a weaker candidate elected...
Personally,,, I have never heard of someone going after a preacher to effect an election, I find it interesting they chose now to do it, since we now have a Black man that is showing the potential to possibly win in Nov..
Their desparation was showing when they decided they must play the race card so early,, by introducing the Black Church experience,, to white America,, which was obviously unfamiliar to many,, and the result was very predictable... The fact that it did not defeat Obama,, I think, is a credit to the education and progress of the American people understanding,, rather than fearing this issue..
But there are still those that would let their fears,, like you say,, drive their thinking..
I believe the key to finding out the truth of why it all happen, is remembering the circumstances of the election at the time... He was winniong big...
I have trouble not including the Hillary campaign with the right wing media in choosing this type of attack against the Senator from Illinois...
They have tried to attach Rev Wright to the white preachers of the right wing christian fundamentalist,, like Hagee as a peddler of nutso,, after it did not succeed in stopping Obama,,, just to get people away from the truths he spoke of,, and all he was doing was trying to make a point to his congregation,, that you cannot take any politicians words at face value,, that maybe we should judge the actions of the "powers that be" rather than what comes from their mouths..
I know this,,, when you feel you want someone to understand something important,, sometimes,, you might have to get a little extreme in the way you express your point.. I believe this is all he is guilty of,, trying to educate,,, help his fellow Americans understand that maybe,, just maybe,,, GOVERNMENTS DO LIE!
Educating the vote,,, you would think,,, would be considered helping America...
Some of what these so-called American Christians understand,, baffles me...
What are they paying attention to,, anyway? Am I crazy?
I believe Americans number one enemy is like you said,,,FEAR!!!
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;907587 wrote: Hi Daniyal,,,
I believe this is the eventual truth that will come out,, and those that have jumped on this negative band-wagon against him will be sorry they didn't take a closer look at this issue,, before they rushed to judgement.. I do think some couldn't wait to find a reason to go against a Black candidate besides the fact of his skin color,,,My own personal opinion,,,and I am a white man...
When the truth of how they flipped,, or spun this sermon to sound anti-American like they did is exposed,, we will maybe finally realize who America's enemies truly are,, in the American political arena,,, and also in the media,, where some get up every morning to come to work with an agenda of dividing a nation just to get a weaker candidate elected...
Personally,,, I have never heard of someone going after a preacher to effect an election, I find it interesting they chose now to do it, since we now have a Black man that is showing the potential to possibly win in Nov..
Their desparation was showing when they decided they must play the race card so early,, by introducing the Black Church experience,, to white America,, which was obviously unfamiliar to many,, and the result was very predictable... The fact that it did not defeat Obama,, I think, is a credit to the education and progress of the American people understanding,, rather than fearing this issue..
But there are still those that would let their fears,, like you say,, drive their thinking..
I believe the key to finding out the truth of why it all happen, is remembering the circumstances of the election at the time... He was winniong big...
I have trouble not including the Hillary campaign with the right wing media in choosing this type of attack against the Senator from Illinois...
They have tried to attach Rev Wright to the white preachers of the right wing christian fundamentalist,, like Hagee as a peddler of nutso,, after it did not succeed in stopping Obama,,, just to get people away from the truths he spoke of,, and all he was doing was trying to make a point to his congregation,, that you cannot take any politicians words at face value,, that maybe we should judge the actions of the "powers that be" rather than what comes from their mouths..
I know this,,, when you feel you want someone to understand something important,, sometimes,, you might have to get a little extreme in the way you express your point.. I believe this is all he is guilty of,, trying to educate,,, help his fellow Americans understand that maybe,, just maybe,,, GOVERNMENTS DO LIE!
Educating the vote,,, you would think,,, would be considered helping America...
Some of what these so-called American Christians understand,, baffles me...
What are they paying attention to,, anyway? Am I crazy?
I believe Americans number one enemy is like you said,,,FEAR!!!
I Agree 1,000 % Thankyou for your great post
I believe this is the eventual truth that will come out,, and those that have jumped on this negative band-wagon against him will be sorry they didn't take a closer look at this issue,, before they rushed to judgement.. I do think some couldn't wait to find a reason to go against a Black candidate besides the fact of his skin color,,,My own personal opinion,,,and I am a white man...
When the truth of how they flipped,, or spun this sermon to sound anti-American like they did is exposed,, we will maybe finally realize who America's enemies truly are,, in the American political arena,,, and also in the media,, where some get up every morning to come to work with an agenda of dividing a nation just to get a weaker candidate elected...
Personally,,, I have never heard of someone going after a preacher to effect an election, I find it interesting they chose now to do it, since we now have a Black man that is showing the potential to possibly win in Nov..
Their desparation was showing when they decided they must play the race card so early,, by introducing the Black Church experience,, to white America,, which was obviously unfamiliar to many,, and the result was very predictable... The fact that it did not defeat Obama,, I think, is a credit to the education and progress of the American people understanding,, rather than fearing this issue..
But there are still those that would let their fears,, like you say,, drive their thinking..
I believe the key to finding out the truth of why it all happen, is remembering the circumstances of the election at the time... He was winniong big...
I have trouble not including the Hillary campaign with the right wing media in choosing this type of attack against the Senator from Illinois...
They have tried to attach Rev Wright to the white preachers of the right wing christian fundamentalist,, like Hagee as a peddler of nutso,, after it did not succeed in stopping Obama,,, just to get people away from the truths he spoke of,, and all he was doing was trying to make a point to his congregation,, that you cannot take any politicians words at face value,, that maybe we should judge the actions of the "powers that be" rather than what comes from their mouths..
I know this,,, when you feel you want someone to understand something important,, sometimes,, you might have to get a little extreme in the way you express your point.. I believe this is all he is guilty of,, trying to educate,,, help his fellow Americans understand that maybe,, just maybe,,, GOVERNMENTS DO LIE!
Educating the vote,,, you would think,,, would be considered helping America...
Some of what these so-called American Christians understand,, baffles me...
What are they paying attention to,, anyway? Am I crazy?
I believe Americans number one enemy is like you said,,,FEAR!!!
I Agree 1,000 % Thankyou for your great post
Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Good for you D.,,,,, most people don't even want to begin to see that maybe theres more to a story than what they've been told by certain media,,
seems they take for granite they have got enough of a story to pass some kind of accurate judgement on the issue..
Some have told me I was nuts to even think there might be something wrong with this story in perticular,,, shifting the subject to the nutso category is what is done to all issues that have been spun to shine for their agenda..
here's another no one seems to want to discuss,,
I truly believe some of the nutso issues deserve some investigation,, no matter how painful the truth might seem to some,,hey,, its better than living the lie..
:guitarist:guitarist:-5:guitarist:guitarist
http://www.911artists.com/?gclid=CIS...FQOIFQod4XLWtw
There's one link to a possible truth,,a possible,, Rest of the story..
It will lead you here... go read,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
http//911truther.com/
We get this story out,, by GOD,, we have done something!
If you don't want to know the truth,, leave now!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a few excerpts! Is this a Hoax?
Journal of a 9/11 Truther
It's been a few months since my first exposure to the evidence being presented by the members of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Today I'm starting 9/11 Truther Cyberzine. I hope it will help raise public awaresness on the whole thing. My friend's a domainer. He buys and sells domains at auction for big money. He thinks that the site will be very high profile because of the domain name alone 911truther.com. Hope he's right. I'm a musician, and I have to get back to it. I never used a computer or did visual art before a couple years ago. I'm doing all work creative,and tech on this e-zine myself. I've never been a political person in the slightest way. To me, the nature of the evidence being presented by the leaders of the 9/11 Truth Movement - Gage, Griffin, Jones, and Martell is so profoundly important and moving that it has inspired this effort. A lot of people lately are telling me that they like my music, and I'm glad from that. However, I hope right now that people listen to me about this. Also, I hope that future generations remember me for this first and my music second. I think the sooner everyone becomes aware of all this evidence, the sooner we're going to be seeing that renaissance Dr. Jones is talking about. I was deeply wounded when I was first exposed to all this. I am a strong rhythm of recovery now and feeling much better. I think that the generation of the 9/11 Truther site has greatly facilitated my healing process. To anyone going through this type of thing, I recommend taking a strong action towards the light and the truth now, and it may work for you too. I hope it does. 040408
seems they take for granite they have got enough of a story to pass some kind of accurate judgement on the issue..
Some have told me I was nuts to even think there might be something wrong with this story in perticular,,, shifting the subject to the nutso category is what is done to all issues that have been spun to shine for their agenda..
here's another no one seems to want to discuss,,
I truly believe some of the nutso issues deserve some investigation,, no matter how painful the truth might seem to some,,hey,, its better than living the lie..
:guitarist:guitarist:-5:guitarist:guitarist
http://www.911artists.com/?gclid=CIS...FQOIFQod4XLWtw
There's one link to a possible truth,,a possible,, Rest of the story..
It will lead you here... go read,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
http//911truther.com/
We get this story out,, by GOD,, we have done something!
If you don't want to know the truth,, leave now!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a few excerpts! Is this a Hoax?
Journal of a 9/11 Truther
It's been a few months since my first exposure to the evidence being presented by the members of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Today I'm starting 9/11 Truther Cyberzine. I hope it will help raise public awaresness on the whole thing. My friend's a domainer. He buys and sells domains at auction for big money. He thinks that the site will be very high profile because of the domain name alone 911truther.com. Hope he's right. I'm a musician, and I have to get back to it. I never used a computer or did visual art before a couple years ago. I'm doing all work creative,and tech on this e-zine myself. I've never been a political person in the slightest way. To me, the nature of the evidence being presented by the leaders of the 9/11 Truth Movement - Gage, Griffin, Jones, and Martell is so profoundly important and moving that it has inspired this effort. A lot of people lately are telling me that they like my music, and I'm glad from that. However, I hope right now that people listen to me about this. Also, I hope that future generations remember me for this first and my music second. I think the sooner everyone becomes aware of all this evidence, the sooner we're going to be seeing that renaissance Dr. Jones is talking about. I was deeply wounded when I was first exposed to all this. I am a strong rhythm of recovery now and feeling much better. I think that the generation of the 9/11 Truther site has greatly facilitated my healing process. To anyone going through this type of thing, I recommend taking a strong action towards the light and the truth now, and it may work for you too. I hope it does. 040408
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;909286 wrote: Good for you D.,,,,, most people don't even want to begin to see that maybe theres more to a story than what they've been told by certain media,,
seems they take for granite they have got enough of a story to pass some kind of accurate judgement on the issue..
Some have told me I was nuts to even think there might be something wrong with this story in perticular,,, shifting the subject to the nutso category is what is done to all issues that have been spun to shine for their agenda..
here's another no one seems to want to discuss,,
I truly believe some of the nutso issues deserve some investigation,, no matter how painful the truth might seem to some,,hey,, its better than living the lie..
:guitarist:guitarist:-5:guitarist:guitarist
http://www.911artists.com/?gclid=CIS...FQOIFQod4XLWtw
There's one link to a possible truth,,a possible,, Rest of the story..
It will lead you here... go read,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
http//911truther.com/
We get this story out,, by GOD,, we have done something!
If you don't want to know the truth,, leave now!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why did good American's fall for this Rev Wright issue?
I believe this issue and the way people dealt with it,, says a lot about how far behind some people are the matter of race in America,, how much is still not understood, and how little some even care about trying to understand others.
What is wrong with Americans who seem oblivious to the problems the human race has caused with its Religions of fear and intolerance?
Why doesn't anyone care about how they understand this world we live in?
Iraq,,,afghanistan,,,china,,,russia,,,iran,, why don't people want to find out how this world works?
We deserve another attack if we're to lazy to try and learn why the first one happen,, depending on others to bring you knowledge is a fools game..
You will never understand anything until you start finding different opinions,, or facts other than what is being fed us by the American media,,the White House,, the state dept,, the pentagon,, these aren't as reliable as they once was...
AMERICANS ARE COPPING OUT,,,HIDING FROM TRUTH DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING..
PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP AND WATCH WHAT'S GOING ON,,
THE REV WRIGHT ISSUE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE SOMEONE IS PLAYING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AS FOOLS,,,
WHY?
seems they take for granite they have got enough of a story to pass some kind of accurate judgement on the issue..
Some have told me I was nuts to even think there might be something wrong with this story in perticular,,, shifting the subject to the nutso category is what is done to all issues that have been spun to shine for their agenda..
here's another no one seems to want to discuss,,
I truly believe some of the nutso issues deserve some investigation,, no matter how painful the truth might seem to some,,hey,, its better than living the lie..
:guitarist:guitarist:-5:guitarist:guitarist
http://www.911artists.com/?gclid=CIS...FQOIFQod4XLWtw
There's one link to a possible truth,,a possible,, Rest of the story..
It will lead you here... go read,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
http//911truther.com/
We get this story out,, by GOD,, we have done something!
If you don't want to know the truth,, leave now!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why did good American's fall for this Rev Wright issue?
I believe this issue and the way people dealt with it,, says a lot about how far behind some people are the matter of race in America,, how much is still not understood, and how little some even care about trying to understand others.
What is wrong with Americans who seem oblivious to the problems the human race has caused with its Religions of fear and intolerance?
Why doesn't anyone care about how they understand this world we live in?
Iraq,,,afghanistan,,,china,,,russia,,,iran,, why don't people want to find out how this world works?
We deserve another attack if we're to lazy to try and learn why the first one happen,, depending on others to bring you knowledge is a fools game..
You will never understand anything until you start finding different opinions,, or facts other than what is being fed us by the American media,,the White House,, the state dept,, the pentagon,, these aren't as reliable as they once was...
AMERICANS ARE COPPING OUT,,,HIDING FROM TRUTH DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING..
PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP AND WATCH WHAT'S GOING ON,,
THE REV WRIGHT ISSUE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE SOMEONE IS PLAYING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AS FOOLS,,,
WHY?
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
DrJ;918264 wrote: Why did good American's fall for this Rev Wright issue?
I believe this issue and the way people dealt with it,, says a lot about how far behind some people are the matter of race in America,, how much is still not understood, and how little some even care about trying to understand others.
What is wrong with Americans who seem oblivious to the problems the human race has caused with its Religions of fear and intolerance?
Why doesn't anyone care about how they understand this world we live in?
Iraq,,,afghanistan,,,china,,,russia,,,iran,, why don't people want to find out how this world works?
We deserve another attack if we're to lazy to try and learn why the first one happen,, depending on others to bring you knowledge is a fools game..
You will never understand anything until you start finding different opinions,, or facts other than what is being fed us by the American media,,the White House,, the state dept,, the pentagon,, these aren't as reliable as they once was...
AMERICANS ARE COPPING OUT,,,HIDING FROM TRUTH DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING..
PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP AND WATCH WHAT'S GOING ON,,
THE REV WRIGHT ISSUE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE SOMEONE IS PLAYING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AS FOOLS,,,
WHY?
AMERICANS Has Never Been able To Face The Truth . But Are The First To Point The Finger At Other Country'sssssssss ... It's Like When Someone Throws Rocks And Then Trys To Hide Their Hands .
I believe this issue and the way people dealt with it,, says a lot about how far behind some people are the matter of race in America,, how much is still not understood, and how little some even care about trying to understand others.
What is wrong with Americans who seem oblivious to the problems the human race has caused with its Religions of fear and intolerance?
Why doesn't anyone care about how they understand this world we live in?
Iraq,,,afghanistan,,,china,,,russia,,,iran,, why don't people want to find out how this world works?
We deserve another attack if we're to lazy to try and learn why the first one happen,, depending on others to bring you knowledge is a fools game..
You will never understand anything until you start finding different opinions,, or facts other than what is being fed us by the American media,,the White House,, the state dept,, the pentagon,, these aren't as reliable as they once was...
AMERICANS ARE COPPING OUT,,,HIDING FROM TRUTH DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING..
PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP AND WATCH WHAT'S GOING ON,,
THE REV WRIGHT ISSUE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE SOMEONE IS PLAYING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AS FOOLS,,,
WHY?
AMERICANS Has Never Been able To Face The Truth . But Are The First To Point The Finger At Other Country'sssssssss ... It's Like When Someone Throws Rocks And Then Trys To Hide Their Hands .
Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Daniyal;919165 wrote: AMERICANS Has Never Been able To Face The Truth . But Are The First To Point The Finger At Other Country'sssssssss ... It's Like When Someone Throws Rocks And Then Trys To Hide Their Hands .
Hi Daniyal
Your right about that,, there is a certain part of our population that believes everything their politicians and certain media tell em...
They claim to believe in a religion,, but when their political agenda is effected by that religion,,,,,,,,, a blind eye suddenly appears,, in order to justify the people they voted for,,, it's something a lot of people feel they have to do,, to keep supporting them,, I guess...
I think it's time to put a halt to somethings,, like letting religion play a part in the political arena instead of using common sense,, like the golden rule,," do as you would be done by,,,
I believe these finger pointers are in a minority,, I'm hoping anyway,, but the media makes them seem louder,, and if the buisiness men are rich enough they can buy the media time to spin the truth anyway they want,, and the damage is done,,, I have to admit there's a lot I don't understand about how we can justify accepting things we know aren't true when it's to uncomfortable to ask the tough questions and get to the bottom of things...
I( feel like we're letting too much go,,, using the blinders,,going along just to get along always has left a bad taste,,,, Something has to be done to get a handle on these people I believe are robbing America blind and the blinders are helping them get away with it...
I think a lot of people are going to be very very sorry when they find out they have been concerned about things that have been used to divert,, moreso than anything else,,, wedge issues in perticular~~~smoke and mirrors:-6
Hi Daniyal
Your right about that,, there is a certain part of our population that believes everything their politicians and certain media tell em...
They claim to believe in a religion,, but when their political agenda is effected by that religion,,,,,,,,, a blind eye suddenly appears,, in order to justify the people they voted for,,, it's something a lot of people feel they have to do,, to keep supporting them,, I guess...
I think it's time to put a halt to somethings,, like letting religion play a part in the political arena instead of using common sense,, like the golden rule,," do as you would be done by,,,
I believe these finger pointers are in a minority,, I'm hoping anyway,, but the media makes them seem louder,, and if the buisiness men are rich enough they can buy the media time to spin the truth anyway they want,, and the damage is done,,, I have to admit there's a lot I don't understand about how we can justify accepting things we know aren't true when it's to uncomfortable to ask the tough questions and get to the bottom of things...
I( feel like we're letting too much go,,, using the blinders,,going along just to get along always has left a bad taste,,,, Something has to be done to get a handle on these people I believe are robbing America blind and the blinders are helping them get away with it...
I think a lot of people are going to be very very sorry when they find out they have been concerned about things that have been used to divert,, moreso than anything else,,, wedge issues in perticular~~~smoke and mirrors:-6
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Jester;919197 wrote: Can you please quote him in the part of his words that you believe he was 'telling the truth on'?
I need an exmple before I can comment on your statement.
I'm not sure the request has relevance, Jester.
DrJ;907587 wrote: I know this,,, when you feel you want someone to understand something important,, sometimes,, you might have to get a little extreme in the way you express your point.. I believe this is all he is guilty of,,
I need an exmple before I can comment on your statement.
I'm not sure the request has relevance, Jester.
DrJ;907587 wrote: I know this,,, when you feel you want someone to understand something important,, sometimes,, you might have to get a little extreme in the way you express your point.. I believe this is all he is guilty of,,
Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?
Jester;919222 wrote: I just cant figure out where this conversations going is all... need some clarification
Time has gone by,, but I know I understand it better than I did before,,
For many different reasons,, there are many who think too big a deal was given to this,, just to derail a campaign,, a 5yr old sermon given before the wmd's were not found,, by a preacher who included the news of the day with his sermons.. A vietnam vet who was probably anti-war,, at that,, caught in something that wasn't even about him or what the sermon was even about..
I think they went after the politics of the situation that didn't quite match up with the time it was all over the media,, and their desperation to find something,,anything brought this out,, successfully...
Religion and patriotism has many spins in itself,, combining the two can make anyone dizzy with the many,,many spinning truths. Right and left,,,,will someday combine to make the one again,,, hopefully..
I seen it for what it was,, a cheap shot that was aimed at the voting block that doesn't look at everything before they vote,, and they are on both sides right and left,,, some people just vote to say they did their part,, these votes are obtained in somewhat simpler ways,, I'm sure the political strategists are trying their best to use the race issue,, without calling it that,, back in the mix...
People fear what they don't understand...
Democracy can get complicated...
Bottom Line,,I think it was just another diversion.. A Good One..
Time has gone by,, but I know I understand it better than I did before,,
For many different reasons,, there are many who think too big a deal was given to this,, just to derail a campaign,, a 5yr old sermon given before the wmd's were not found,, by a preacher who included the news of the day with his sermons.. A vietnam vet who was probably anti-war,, at that,, caught in something that wasn't even about him or what the sermon was even about..
I think they went after the politics of the situation that didn't quite match up with the time it was all over the media,, and their desperation to find something,,anything brought this out,, successfully...
Religion and patriotism has many spins in itself,, combining the two can make anyone dizzy with the many,,many spinning truths. Right and left,,,,will someday combine to make the one again,,, hopefully..
I seen it for what it was,, a cheap shot that was aimed at the voting block that doesn't look at everything before they vote,, and they are on both sides right and left,,, some people just vote to say they did their part,, these votes are obtained in somewhat simpler ways,, I'm sure the political strategists are trying their best to use the race issue,, without calling it that,, back in the mix...
People fear what they don't understand...
Democracy can get complicated...
Bottom Line,,I think it was just another diversion.. A Good One..