Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Discuss the Christian Faith.
gmc
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by gmc »

posted by accountable

This American citizen publicly accuses the United States government of purposely and maliciously developing and distributing a deadly virus with the express intent of genocide.... and repeatedly stands by his accusation without offering a shred of evidence. But because the color of his skin, this DrJ character thinks he deserves a pass -- because he spews his filth from a pulpit, a rebuttal is an unfair attack.

That pisses me off.


Ah I see. Thing is there is enough real things without needing to make things up. Kind of detracts from what else he says I suppose. You do need to be able to look at your past without rose tinted glasses. I'm just used to a culture that basically ignores what church leaders have to say, these kind of threads are quite intriguing.

posted by drJ

Gmc,,,how do you get all that so mixed up,,

I state the Jewish Religion is 'tied to' the Roman Empire

as Chritianity is 'tied to' the American Empire,,,

OK I see,,,,You ask if I think the Jews were Romans,,

I assume ,,you assume,, I think,,,The Christians are us government,,

I ask you to show me this,,,I'm sorry,,I see how my ramblings get confused,,


You do seem rather confused. The romans were not jewish had nothing to do with the jews except to conqueor them. The state religion was emperor worship although later it became christian. Roman catholic and the pope in rome is a good clue as to what happened. The jews got the blame for killing JC as convenient fiction unless of course you really believe that an occupying imperial power is going to care what the locals want.
xyz
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by xyz »

Jester;858629 wrote: where in the bible does it say "...out of the mouth of scholars there shall be truth..." ??? :-2

:rolleyes:

Give it up Ted.
Of course, 'babes and sucklings' is a mistranslation. :) And as for this:

'The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.' 2 Tim 4:3-4 (NIV)

Obviously that's entirely spurious!
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Accountable
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by Accountable »

gmc;858732 wrote: Ah I see. Thing is there is enough real things without needing to make things up. Kind of detracts from what else he says I suppose. You do need to be able to look at your past without rose tinted glasses. I'm just used to a culture that basically ignores what church leaders have to say, these kind of threads are quite intriguing.
Alright, let me try to clarify my position on this. The first time most people heard of Jeremiah Wright was when som sensationalist reporter dug up some background mud to fling at Obama. It happens. Hell, it's expected. The clips showed rants that would make Louis Farrakhan proud. Big deal. It's all been said before.



Obama goes out and decides to deflect the anti-American slant of the sound-bytes by giving the "can't we all get along" speech. Very deft. Very predictable.



But DrJ comes in here saying that this attack is shameful; that we should give Mr Wright special consideration. Not because he agrees with the minister. Not because Wright's a babbling lunatic. Not because he's clearly fallen in love with his own voice. We're supposed to look the other way because Jeremiah Wright is (*whispering behind the hand*) black. Not only black, but a black Christian - and because he is a black Christian, he should be declared untouchable no matter what he says. In fact, we should actively support his spewing such tripe exactly because he is a black Christian!

DrJ;854384 wrote: [,,,]

But now,,, they have gone after the Christian Minister of the candidate,, they can't seem to stop,,, I wonder,, if people don't speak up now,, what's next?

They're going to start taking clips from all Christian Ministers,, it's just funny to me how this has never happen before,, till a Black man has run for president,,



[...]



The fact that religious leaders aren't speaking up,, makes me wonder if the christian religious leaders,,, aren't in it just for the money as well....



[...]


To grant special favors based on ethnicity is just as much a form of bigotry as to deny basic rights. Reserving a special restroom for one ethnicity versus restricting an ethnicity to a special restroom.



Freedom of speech extends beyond the original speech; it also encompasses responses to it. No American citizen should be declared untouchable, not based on religion, ethnicity, sex, or political persuasion.



My problem is not so much what Wright has said, deplorable as it was. My problem is that some people want to look the other way only because of where he said it and because it was said by a black man.
gmc
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by gmc »

posted by accountable

Obama goes out and decides to deflect the anti-American slant of the sound-bytes by giving the "can't we all get along" speech. Very deft. Very predictable.


OK. My knowledge of this is what I have read in the thread. But what's this anti-american bit? How does that come about.

If I point out that it was the english that started the atlantic trade in negro slaves am I being anti-english or pointing out a historical fact. If I say the British empire wasn't about bringing civilisation but was really simple greed and the ruthless use of military superiority am I being anti british or merely pointing out an uncomfortable reality of our past. If I say the monarchy should be abolished am I unpatriotic or exercising my right to say what I like.

If it's anti american to point out a sometimes unsavoury past should you perhaps stop teaching history. Is the un-american activities commission something you want to bring back? Who gets to decide what is or isn't anti-american.

In a free country how can it possible be anti american/unpatriotic (anti british anti french-take your pick) to criticise?

Posted by accountable

My problem is not so much what Wright has said, deplorable as it was. My problem is that some people want to look the other way only because of where he said it and because it was said by a black man.


So what would you do? Lock him up, ban him from speaking, forbid the media to report it? Or ignore him. DrJ is worrying, anyone who believes the roman empire was jewish is either a conspiracy theorist the nazis would have embraced or it's a terrible indictment of your educational system.

Hopefully most people hearing him speak wouldn't take his word as gospel-then again maybe they would. If it's any consolation it gets only a passing comment in the british media, usually expressing amused surprise at the apparent fuss.
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Jester;858630 wrote: DrJ, if you can find me one thing that Rev Wright has said that is on the subject of the bible/christianity I'll be glad to discern whether I agree with it or not.

But if he's spewing more hate then all I can do is just disagree with him on that. I havn't seen anything attributed to him but hate so far.

I dont think the media is agaisnt him because of his race, I just havn't seen that to be the case, the man is just nuts to assume that there is a current government agenda to keep the black man under control somehow.

He's a loon. And he's not being attacked because of his religion, but because of his hatefilled words.


I guess my point is not being clear enough,, I'm stumbling along here,, because I know why certain points of this sermon were picked out,,, and I also believe the people that pick these little snippets are doing more damage quietly than A

"Rev Wright" could if he spoke 24/7,,365 days a year,, at the top of his lungs.

I realize its easier just to go along with the tide,, or whats popular in these times, but I feel like,, by asking people why they never stood up and supported a Christian Minister, being attacked by the media,, I am hearing things that make me think I maybe missing something,, which isn't out of the ordinary,, for me.

Here's my picture of it,, when I first heard these comments on the cable news,, my first thoughts were,, he's reflecting on the elected officials a majority of people voted for,, and he's doing it in church in a sermon,, speaking from a Ministers perspective that has to answer to a higher power only...

I knew right away the Christian right,, was going to be upset,, being the great political minds of the church that they are,, after all,, they backed all these politicians that have made a mess of things,, but as long as they stay on the right side of all these wedge issues,, they will follow them into armegeddon!

Have you read the entire sermon?

I think if people read all of it,, they will realize it wasn't politically correct,, which is why it was used in a political venue,, I guess I see it as a Minister speaking of government like a minister speaks to the sinner,, trying to get the sinner to look at him/herself,, but this twist of minister bashing,, attracted my eye,, because the sinner happens to be somebody we all care about,, which made it a threat to the patriotism,, or the version of patriotism,, of today,,of every American,, who wants to believe the US government is without sin.........

Then I find out the sermon was given right after the' shock and awe',, before we found no WMD's and the lie that got us into Iraq.. Which was the most amazing part for me,, considering the hindsight we all enjoy now,, and that is,,,

Governments Lie!

Maybe the Black perspective on this great country,, I love,, with all its faults,, is different than mine,,which is not so surprising to me,, for some reason...

Hate speech,,,,,What words used in the sermon do you consider hate speech?

It's on this thread,, the first half of the sermon..:-6:-6
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

gmc;858732 wrote: posted by accountable



You do seem rather confused. The romans were not jewish had nothing to do with the jews except to conqueor them. The state religion was emperor worship although later it became christian. Roman catholic and the pope in rome is a good clue as to what happened. The jews got the blame for killing JC as convenient fiction unless of course you really believe that an occupying imperial power is going to care what the locals want.


Can you read? I'm still going to give you the benefit of the doubt,,

maybe its my writing,,,:-5:-5

Now read carefully,, maybe more than once,,, then look away and read again.

Christians,,in the year 2007

Jews,,in the year,32 bc,, in the times of,,, An Educated idiot,, I love em!~

Forgive me,,God loves ya!

Keep coming back,,, I need people like you,,,get my juices flowing,,if ya know what I mean!
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Accountable;858769 wrote: Alright, let me try to clarify my position on this. The first time most people heard of Jeremiah Wright was when som sensationalist reporter dug up some background mud to fling at Obama. It happens. Hell, it's expected. The clips showed rants that would make Louis Farrakhan proud. Big deal. It's all been said before.





But DrJ comes in here saying that this attack is shameful; that we should give Mr Wright special consideration. Not because he agrees with the minister. Not because Wright's a babbling lunatic. Not because he's clearly fallen in love with his own voice. We're supposed to look the other way because Jeremiah Wright is (*whispering behind the hand*) black. Not only black, but a black Christian - and because he is a black Christian, he should be declared untouchable no matter what he says. In fact, we should actively support his spewing such tripe exactly because he is a black Christian!



To grant special favors based on ethnicity is just as much a form of bigotry as to deny basic rights. Reserving a special restroom for one ethnicity versus restricting an ethnicity to a special restroom.



Freedom of speech extends beyond the original speech; it also encompasses responses to it. No American citizen should be declared untouchable, not based on religion, ethnicity, sex, or political persuasion.



My problem is not so much what Wright has said, deplorable as it was. My problem is that some people want to look the other way only because of where he said it and because it was said by a black man.


You feel about Rev jeremiah Wright,, the same way I feel about, Rush Limbaugh,

Sean Hannity,, I think they need to be ridiculed in public just as people like you do the Rev,, but no,, everyones quiet about these far right freaks,, dividing us right and left,,, hey ,, if we're gonna stop giving passes,, I want to know,, why,all of a sudden, since we been hearing the same type thing from pro-government people for this long,,,,,,,,,,,maybe it's just a coincidence,, he's a democrat,, maybe it's just a coincidence he's ,,dare I say it,,,Black!:-6

But noooooo! We going to stand up,, when someone talks tough to the right!

Just looks funny to me,, I guess because I can relate the two...

I respect your point,, but I see it from another angle,, is all..

The times,, they are a changing!
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

GMC writes;

If I point out that it was the english that started the atlantic trade in negro slaves am I being anti-english or pointing out a historical fact. If I say the British empire wasn't about bringing civilisation but was really simple greed and the ruthless use of military superiority am I being anti british or merely pointing out an uncomfortable reality of our past. If I say the monarchy should be abolished am I unpatriotic or exercising my right to say what I like.

If it's anti american to point out a sometimes unsavoury past should you perhaps stop teaching history. Is the un-american activities commission something you want to bring back? Who gets to decide what is or isn't anti-american.

In a free country how can it possible be anti american/unpatriotic (anti british anti french-take your pick) to criticise?

So what would you do? Lock him up, ban him from speaking, forbid the media to report it? Or ignore him. DrJ is worrying, anyone who believes the roman empire was jewish is either a conspiracy theorist the nazis would have embraced or it's a terrible indictment of your educational system.

Hopefully most people hearing him speak wouldn't take his word as gospel-then again maybe they would. If it's any consolation it gets only a passing comment in the british media, usually expressing amused surprise at the apparent fuss. Posted by GMC

DrJ

What? Where do you get this shiite,,GMC,,, You make good points,, but try reading the thread before you write.

I like this guy,, is he a regular? I'm not trying to step on anyones toes,, in here,, I realize I'm new but Jesus/Mary/Joseph,, this guy reads every other word in a paragraph,, must be one of them speed readers,, they often miss a sentence or two,,, That shows me slow readers learn more,,, thank God!

You can't bring up the "N" word in these threads,, they say it's a conversation killer,, like when you discussing something with someone and all of a sudden they come out with scripture,, for no apparent reason,, What?!!!!!!

I love you ,,GMC,, I need a perspective from another country,,:-5:-5

some Americans are a little too close to these sensitive issues to be impartial.

I think that's the word,, I'm looking for,,, help me,,man!:-6:-6

Please be patient,, I will figure this site out soon,,quote,,unquote,,

I am a kindergarden computer wizard,, compared to some I'm sure,,,

I see the confusion I'm creating with the paste!hehehe
xyz
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by xyz »

DrJ;858978 wrote: If I point out that it was the english that started the atlantic trade in negro slaves am I being anti-english or pointing out a historical fact.
Mongols, Italians, Scandinavians, Arabs were slave-trading long before the Atlantic trade, and the first Europeans to take Africans were Portuguese, and that was due to geography. The Spanish and the Dutch, being maritime nations, were heavily involved, at times. It isn't nationalities that exploit, it is people. And, given the harsh facts of economic life in the 16th-19th centuries, when given the opportunity to make easy money out of slave-trading, many people might have done no differently from those who actually did trade in slaves. And remember, those who sold were ethnic Africans. There are no morally superior nationalities or ethnicities.
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

:yh_silly

I'm gonna buckle down and get these quotes seperated,,

in case the right wing karl rove rocket scientists come out in force against me!



Sorry XYZ ,,,My understanding of quote transfering has hit a road block,, Me!

:yh_glasse ,,,,



Hey ,, if anything,, I have learned to laugh at myself,,, now back to the battle!

:yh_rotfl
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

xyz;858755 wrote: Of course, 'babes and sucklings' is a mistranslation. :) And as for this:

'The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.' 2 Tim 4:3-4 (NIV)

Obviously that's entirely spurious!


That's exactly right,,people:yh_glasse

How do you think Christianity got started,,,,,,,,:yh_party

:yh_rotfl:yh_eyebro:yh_rotfl
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

John Hagee is a fundamentalist, a bigot a racist and a hatemongerer as proven by his words in context.

Hagee thinks that 20% of all muslims believe they are mandated to kill Christians and Jews. From which prominent Islamic scholar did Hagee learn this? A Palestinian terrorist he invited on his show. Hagee went on to warn about the grave threat of this 20%, these murderous 200 million muslims who according to Hagee wants to invade Israel and America and slaughter Christians and Jews.

How can McCain be “very honored” by this endorsement? And how is this not a major scandal in the US. Where I come from it would be career suicide for any politician to accept that kind of endorsement. Even our Christian Democrats would publically reject endorsements from crazy preachers like Hagee

March 11th, 2008 at 8:32 pm



Where is the outrage? I know I know,, this isn't God Damn America,,,

This is God Damn the world!!!:-6 :-6:yh_worshp:yh_worshp:yh_nailbi

The slippery slope,, political strategist don't know about,, or don't care about..

They only care about,,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I don't think we can afford to give this guy a free pass,,, but I will:yh_rotfl
xyz
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by xyz »

DrJ;859406 wrote: That's exactly right,,people:yh_glasse

How do you think Christianity got started,,,,,,,,:yh_party

:yh_rotfl:yh_eyebro:yh_rotfl
You didn't know what you were talking about on the subject of slavery, either... :)
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

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gmc;858830 wrote: OK. My knowledge of this is what I have read in the thread. But what's this anti-american bit? How does that come about.



If I point out that it was the english that started the atlantic trade in negro slaves am I being anti-english or pointing out a historical fact. If I say the British empire wasn't about bringing civilisation but was really simple greed and the ruthless use of military superiority am I being anti british or merely pointing out an uncomfortable reality of our past. If I say the monarchy should be abolished am I unpatriotic or exercising my right to say what I like.



If it's anti american to point out a sometimes unsavoury past should you perhaps stop teaching history. Is the un-american activities commission something you want to bring back? Who gets to decide what is or isn't anti-american.Point out all the unsavory facts. Noby can (logically) argue with that. What he did was level an accusation with no basis in fact.



An equivalent might be if an especially deadly strain of flu swept through Northern Ireland and a locally prominent public figure (British citizen) said it was developed by the British government specifically to kill off all Irishmen, especially the Catholic ones.
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

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gmc;858830 wrote: So what would you do? Lock him up, ban him from speaking, forbid the media to report it? Or ignore him. This is the heart of the issue I'm on about. I'm not saying what anyone should do, only that his skin color and/or church credentials do not give him special license. He certainly doesn't deserve to be defended by all Christians, as DrJ suggests.
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

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DrJ;858918 wrote: You feel about Rev jeremiah Wright,, the same way I feel about, Rush Limbaugh,

Sean Hannity,, I think they need to be ridiculed in public just as people like you do the Rev,, but no,, everyones quiet about these far right freaks,, Limbaugh & Hannity are old news and Wright is new news. Back when Limbaugh was news (Hannity always wanted to be but just couldn't cut it) he was flamed daily. Armed Forces Radio refused to air his show despite numerous requests because they thought he was too controversial. Hell Keith Olbermann devotes damn near every show to tear Bill O'Reilly down.

DrJ wrote: hey ,, if we're gonna stop giving passes,,Nobody's forcing you to give passes ... to anyone! Pull out the stops. Call them on their lies. I'll cheer you on. Just don't ask for people to defend a liar - or anyone - just because they fit a particular category. Give a real reason.
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

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Accountable;859596 wrote: Limbaugh & Hannity are old news and Wright is new news. Back when Limbaugh was news (Hannity always wanted to be but just couldn't cut it) he was flamed daily. Armed Forces Radio refused to air his show despite numerous requests because they thought he was too controversial. Hell Keith Olbermann devotes damn near every show to tear Bill O'Reilly down.

Nobody's forcing you to give passes ... to anyone! Pull out the stops. Call them on their lies. I'll cheer you on. Just don't ask for people to defend a liar - or anyone - just because they fit a particular category. Give a real reason.


Why didn't more Christians,,,was a question, about christian awareness....

Do you remember the golden rule of the trial lawyer? Never ask,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I went along with the game,, cause like you,, I enjoy it as well....and I think,, it needs to be examined...

Clouding the truth,,, as the divider(political strategist) planned it to be.. calling them liars gives them more time..

The 'real' reason is in the thread,,, I can't find it for you,, for me,,sometimes I get lucky and trip over it,,

Seek and ye shall find!:-6 I think Keith Oberman deserves the medal of honor! History will remember him...

Ty,, by the way!



{Jester quoting scripture}

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side{stop}

Page 10,,,a reply from ACC,, I'm not sure if its all there,, the actual sermon,, I mean.. Anderson cooper 360

I not sure I understand how he got there, either,, I'd have to hear the whole thing.... from his mouth...

The truth lies within,,, I am told!:sneaky:

by walking the path,,, we come upon it,,, in a natural way,, and then think to ourselves,, I already knew that!



Ask Aretha to hit a note,,, she not only hits it,, she slides up to,, and thru,, and beyond and back..

As she has called it her own,, scripture is but a guide,,,,and a 1,, and a 2,,,,,do re mi!

What truth has the Rev Wright learned in these times...?



{GMC Quotes}

If it's anti american to point out a sometimes unsavoury past should you perhaps stop teaching history. Is the un-american activities commission something you want to bring back? Who gets to decide what is or isn't anti-american. {stop}

Now that's some clear insight, right there,, but,,GMC, what if just one of the many statements of a man,, has yet to be proven to the public? Do you think the true facts should be disgarded because of a flaw in just one?

This interests me as well,,, I wonder who it is,,,,that chooses what to teach in the history classes of a free nation,

I mean,, what to leave in,, what to leave out,,,,,,against the wind,,

I would like to think,,, that at least a majority of us,, would like everything known,, I want my kids to know...
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

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DrJ;859659 wrote: Why didn't more Christians,,,was a question, about christian awareness....

Do you remember the golden rule of the trial lawyer? Never ask,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I went along with the game,, cause like you,, I enjoy it as well....and I think,, it needs to be examined...
Okay, to your actual original question. I think most defenders of Wright don't have the opportunity to get in front of national cameras. Even if most people believe he's being unfairly attacked, which they may, we'd likely never find out because pollsters aren't asking that question.



There are those who defend him, and do it with pasion and style. Check out CSPAN every now & then. the NAACP had him as a keynote speaker for some reason I don't recall (or really care, to be honest), and the introduction alone built into a sermon that went somewhere close to 10 minutes.



But Wright can easily defend himself. I found this link where he address the National Press Club. I saw this on CSPAN as well. The man's definitely a fantastic speaker. No matter what you think of Wright, he'll have you laughing out loud if you watch.
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

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After I watched the NAACP speech,, I knew for sure there was going to be some kind of blowback,, for what the media irresponsibly went long with, without any investigation what-so-ever,, but this is what our American media has evolved into.

Let's be honest,, the days of Cronkite and Co. are long gone.. What worries me the most is the corporate influence in our news programs blasting stories out to an unsuspecting unaware voting audience. I'm sure a lot of people can determine what it is they are being fed,, but I also believe there our a lot of channel surfers that may run thru the news channels, and actually believe they have just been informed by receiving partial bits of information,, a spin if you will, without key bits of info,,, to remove the arguable info contained,, in the truth.. I think the Rev Wright story was the straw that broke the camels back for me,,, and hopefully more people of faith will see how partial truths have been deciding elections in this country since the beginning of time,, and how it has been dangerously amplified with the political news programs of today...

The hope of this situation is the internet,, which gives competition to an unbiased American media my ass,,, controlled to some extent by those with the gold..

I believe the Bloggers are a force,, in that they bring light to everything spun in the media,, I think they have the power to influence honesty in the media people themselves who are also Americans,, well to do,, mind you,, but Americans.

I only mention 'Well to do' as a perspective in America,, not to cast any type shadow on it,, just to point out,, their truth might not line up with those out in the audience that listens,,,God Guns & $$$$ ,,My fav...:sneaky:

Now this link for the National press club is as good an argument for the people in line with you,, ACC,, and I have to say,, I even like the way you present it,, as the quite respectful,,,, We must agree to disagree,, 'slick' man,,

This is a performance for a media,, begging for it,, pleading on their knees for it,,

needing it desparately,,, and being the show man,, he played it to a tee.

My favorite was the question of patriotism,,, Where the Rev says,,,

{quote}I served 8 yrs in vietnam,, does that mean I'm a patriot,, How many did Dick Cheney serve?{stop}

I knew then,, this was a performance,,,Crazy like a fox!

I'm starting to think you might be a right wing operative,,,ACC,,Good show:wah:

Do you know a politician named Hensarling,, 5th district Texas

He argues against helping people in foreclosure,,, in reference to helping soldiers coming home...

I just mention this because you are a fellow C-pan observer..

I wonder how he voted in Bear Stearns bailout,, just curious..........

I take it you know the 'real' reason the Christians let the Rev Wright issue slide...:wah:
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DrJ;860277 wrote: Now this link for the National press club is as good an argument for the people in line with you,, ACC,, and I have to say,, I even like the way you present it,, as the quite respectful,,,, We must agree to disagree,, 'slick' man,,Forgive me, DrJ, but I don't know your style well enough to tell. Are you being sincere, sarcastic, or something else?

DrJ wrote: This is a performance for a media,, begging for it,, pleading on their knees for it,,

needing it desparately,,, and being the show man,, he played it to a tee.

My favorite was the question of patriotism,,, Where the Rev says,,,

{quote}I served 8 yrs in vietnam,, does that mean I'm a patriot,, How many did Dick Cheney serve?{stop}



I knew then,, this was a performance,,,Crazy like a fox!

I'm starting to think you might be a right wing operative,,,ACC,,Good show:wah: No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing. Everybody there was putty in his hands. The guy's a master. :D

Don't get the right wing operative line, though.

DrJ wrote: Do you know a politician named Hensarling,, 5th district Texas

He argues against helping people in foreclosure,,, in reference to helping soldiers coming home...

I just mention this because you are a fellow C-pan observer..

I wonder how he voted in Bear Stearns bailout,, just curious..........First I've heard of him. Did a quick Google and found what you're talking about with the foreclosure speech. I couldn't find anything in his voting record on Bear Stearns. For the record, I have a real problem with using my tax dollar like that.



Here's a good place to check out anyone's voting record. CLICK HERE
DrJ wrote: I take it you know the 'real' reason the Christians let the Rev Wright issue slide...:wah:You make it sound like a committee got together and made a decision. :yh_glasse :yh_think :cool:
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Accountable;860523 wrote: Forgive me, DrJ, but I don't know your style well enough to tell. Are you being sincere, sarcastic, or something else?

No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing. Everybody there was putty in his hands. The guy's a master.

Don't get the right wing operative line, though.

First I've heard of him. Did a quick Google and found what you're talking about with the foreclosure speech. I couldn't find anything in his voting record on Bear Stearns. For the record, I have a real problem with using my tax dollar like that.



You make it sound like a committee got together and made a decision.


Sarcasticly sincere,, if there is such a thing,,

It was a,, what you might call a compliment wrapped in a accusation,,

heavy on the compliment,, you seem to have a dog in the fight to discredit the character of the Rev,, or your just defending Christians right to disagree, or both,

I may have read that wrong,, but your delivery of the link,, showed a political intelligence, everyone must respect,, more so than,, "I'm pissed off"...

Maybe I'm assuming to much,, ya think?



Hey you were strongly contesting my premise that maybe Christians should have run to the aid of a fellow Christian, and I've read some stuff on this site,,

Right wing,,views You got me to write the "N" word too,,,:lips:

back when I was nieve:sneaky: last week,,,:yh_eyebro

Another compliment,, you really need to keep up,,man;)

Now this thing about a committee,,

The Christian coalition,, of evangelist,, who have they been urging people to vote for? Who did they urge us to vote for back in 2000? How about 2004?

They are a powerful voting block,, their problem is,, they haven't realized voting on wedge issues alone is a mistake that benefits the rich only!

Or have they? Is the rich very informed Preacher,, manipulating his/her own congregation,, or are the politicians manipulating the Church?

I have trouble seeing the politician doing this without help..

Have you ever heard the term corporate worship?

The wedge,, in all honesty ,,is between the people,, and the money..

Does that sound like a conspiracy to you?

What keeps poor and middle class people from seeing this?

God,,guns,,$$$ 4 the rich only.....New world Order stuff,,

explain why I'm wrong there,, I really want to be!

Now here comes Rev Wright,, who does he accuse?

The same people they helped put in office,, My theory..

Look,, Ill be honest,, if it wasn't for you,, people would still be wondering how I could be so wrong on slavery,, or what side of the issue I'm truly on,, and the best one,, The jews were Roman soldiers,,,:-5

Thx for the quote thing,,

Thx for the vote thing,, I just happen to be writing in the thread with Cspan in the background,,,,,

This is a conversation that benefits the country as a whole,,

I respect all views,, all positions,, point/counterpt,,,

There are no losers,, I think if you don't have conviction when you express an opinion,, the discussion means nothing and dies..

How can Christians not see how they have jumped in to a political bind,, where belief and party loyalty collide? Help me understand this,, in your way,

Do you think this thread offends some? My views in perticular

Your right about hannity and Rush,, being old news,, and this Hagee guy is history, but the Roves of these times have many tools...

This is what I'd like to know,,

what do you think is going to happen to Rev Wright?:-6
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

rjwould;860597 wrote: Do you remember the real Dr. J.?


76ers,,,I bet on them against the Lakers

DrJ,,is short for drjykellhyde44
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Drj played on the philadelphia 76ers,,Julius

DrJykell,, is an email,,mispelled
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Yes,, why do you ask?

I was young,,my kids weren't all born yet,, I was in my early 20's

I thought he was the best,, then Jordan came,, and I haven't seen anyone surpass that..

I wished I could have seen more of wilt the stilt,,

Are you CIA?hehehe just kidding!

I remember that movie with pierce Bronson,, stealing paintings and the russians were robbing the art place practicing their knowledge of America,,,

Do you remember the Big Red Machine?

Baseball has been berry berry good to me!

Who said that?
gmc
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by gmc »

Accountable;859587 wrote: Point out all the unsavory facts. Noby can (logically) argue with that. What he did was level an accusation with no basis in fact.



An equivalent might be if an especially deadly strain of flu swept through Northern Ireland and a locally prominent public figure (British citizen) said it was developed by the British government specifically to kill off all Irishmen, especially the Catholic ones.


True, pity in a way because there is enough reality to get annoyed without making things up.

An equivalent might be if an especially deadly strain of flu swept through Northern Ireland and a locally prominent public figure (British citizen) said it was developed by the British government specifically to kill off all Irishmen, especially the Catholic ones




Except once he said and everybody stopped laughing he would be ignored. Actually the japanese were conducting experiments with flu and other things on the chinese. The british led the world at one time in biological warfare before it bacame very non pc. If you could I dare say someone would try such things-there are enough nutters around.

How about this guy John Hagee?

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/23/hag ... na-mccain/

Why does anybody listen to these guys?

Interesting contrast-we don't like our politicians to wear their religion on their sleeves. With Tony Blair Any comment along the lines that god was guiding him in his decisions would have really raised the roof and raised even more dounts about his ssuitability for office. TB converting to catholicism while in office would have raised a real stooshie.
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by Accountable »

DrJ;860596 wrote: Sarcasticly sincere,, if there is such a thing,,

It was a,, what you might call a compliment wrapped in a accusation,,

heavy on the compliment,, you seem to have a dog in the fight to discredit the character of the Rev,, or your just defending Christians right to disagree, or both,

I may have read that wrong,, but your delivery of the link,, showed a political intelligence, everyone must respect,, more so than,, "I'm pissed off"...

Maybe I'm assuming to much,, ya think?
I'll accept the compliments, thanks. :-6 The rest I'll have to put off till later. I woke up late & have to go mold young minds. BWAHAHAhahahahaha! :sneaky:
gmc
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by gmc »

Accountable;860727 wrote: I'll accept the compliments, thanks. :-6 The rest I'll have to put off till later. I woke up late & have to go mold young minds. BWAHAHAhahahahaha! :sneaky:


I was going to say I hope you're not an English teacher but it appears mould/mold is another american spelling aberration.
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Accountable;860727 wrote: BWAHAHAhahahahaha! :sneaky:


I see a picture of a young mom pulling up to the grade shcool,,

her child climbing anxiously out of the mini-van,, or Suv,,,

with the understandable look of concern on moms face,,

:-3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:-3



as her child runs into the building of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



THE LAND OF NO RETURN!:sneaky:
DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-login.php

Here are some other opinions of people comparing Hagee to Wright,,

The problem is their on two different levels of delusion,,Government/God

Patrotism vs spirituality,,,, Too bad God is not a politician,, if Hagee has chosen to live in these times,, it is clearly obvious to me,,,,why,, in respect to the weather,, and his judgements of God's will,,

Whats going to be on Hagees mind when the weather knocks on his wealthy door?

Oh why O'Lord have you forsaken me? The times, they are a changing!

That's justice in my mind,, just one theory,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hehehe



If the truth were so simple, why all the confusion?

here's a clue from a master,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, its all an Illusion!

DrJ

_______________________________________________________________________________________

I’ve been reading about Pastor Hagee, in horror, for many years. There’s no context which mitigates the vileness of his message. He’s a dangerous fanatic who is doing everything he can to cause “Jesus to take him home” before he dies of a coronary and has to take a dirt nap.

In order to land this endorsement McCain had to abandon his long-term antipathy to the “religious right”. And why did McCain seek this nut job out and abandon his principles? For a few thousand Texas voters. And how did McCain deal with this, what I consider, serious violation of his stated principles? Denial, followed by a half-assed “I regret if he said anything anti-anyone”. McCain’s sell out to these hateful creatures may be the biggest tragedy of this campaign. Rather than telling the most odious members of his party to take a hike, damaging their grip on the GOP, he has embraced and validated them.

So? I think that McCain loses “preachergate” hands down. He put off a lot of moderates and I think this move may be as damaging as any in a campaign where he has sold his principles to all comers.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can anyone not see the slippery slope America has been placed on?DrJ

_______________________________________________



Hagee, in context, is about as remarkable as a French Marxist. His particular brand of religion has been an undercurrent in American life since the very earliest days. You know how you guys rag on the Right for “pants wetting” re terrorism? That’s about how we see your reaction to Hagee, because he’s no threat to anybody — he rubs his hands in anticipation of being able to gloat when God does the Bad Guys (by his definition) in, but does not call for any human agency to punish the wicked.

_____________________________________________-

He's no threat? He is the justification of the Beast,,,neo-con! Sadly,,,

the mark being Christianity! Comprende'! DrJ

Theories abound,,,,hehehe

__________________________________________________-

Hagee and his followers are going to vote for somebody. That’s a given. John McCain figures it might as well be him as anybody else, and shifts around like (surprise!) a politician to get those votes. After all, the Democrats have the “Kill Whitey!” demographic sewed up, and smirk in assumed virtue for having accomplished that. He might as well try for the opposite side, especially since it’s substantially more numerous. You, on the other hand, are trying to marginalize those people, and your tactic there is to try to manipulate things so that McCain offends Hagee & Co. as badly as you have, with the idea in mind that they’ll either go away entirely or reject him as they have you. McCain must repudiate Hagee! No, that’s not forceful enough! It’s got to be absolute!

In the first place, McCain isn’t nearly that stupid. He’s a Navy fighter pilot, which says a lot if you know the genre, but just short of imbecilic? You wish. (No, I’m not a McCain admirer. If the Democrats had anybody credible you’d probably get my vote.) In the second place, and more important, the cries of he must repudiate are at best an equal and opposite insult to the people involved, and more usually tend to drive them farther away from you. And in the third place, everything you do in that direction invariably and inevitably points back at Wright, no matter how loudly you shout “Look! Over there! No, not there, fool, over there!

It’s particularly telling that you don’t find the views of an explicitly racist, America-hating, rabble-rousing demagogue “offensive, racist, or unamerican”, and more indicative that you’re trying to spin a typical, “I’m sorry you’re so sensitive as to take offense” nonapology into a “thoughtful, eloquent, speech”. Careful of the bearings, there. RPMs that high need special lubrication.

As for the mythical “moderates” — I think you must be talking about the people who don’t pay attention. To the extent they matter, which won’t be until September at the earliest, I personally don’t think this will affect them much. Prediction is hard, especially about the future, so I suppose I could be wrong — but remember: Hagee doesn’t threaten anybody, and in fact goes to great lengths to avoid threats (if you understand the nuance); Wright & Co. are explicity calling for “wall, oppressors, some assembly required.” There is a difference, and it ain’t nearly as subtle as you try to make it.

_____________________________________________

Now,,,the white Christians cry!!! To late my friend! DrJ

_____________________________________________s



Yeah Hagee, Katrina was a creation of your mystical heaven that was sent forth to wipe away the sin of New Orleans. Problem is, eveything OTHER than Bourbon Street (the “heart” of so-called sin in New Orleans) and its immediate confines was destroyed.

Now for your “holier than thou” determination that this event was the hand of your mystical god; consider this: the city of New Orleans was indeed recently destroyed by hurricane Katrina. At least a thousand people died, tens of thousands lost all their earthly possessions, and over a million were displaced. It is safe to say that almost every person living in New Orleans at the moment Katrina struck believed in an omnipotent, omniscient, and compassionate God. But what was God doing while a hurricane laid waste to their city? Surely He heard the prayers of those elderly christian men and women who fled the rising waters for the safety of their attics, only to be slowly drowned there. These were people of faith. These were good men and women who had prayed throughout their lives. He heard them, didn’t he? Or did he not, because mirages are just that….mirages.

Fortunately, there are those of us who don’t marinate in religious fiction who have the courage to admit the obvious: these poor people spent their lives in the company of an imaginary friend.

So keep spouting your idiotic spin, Hagee. Only fools and con artists like yourself can do anything and everything possible to negate scientific facts with religious fiction. Unbelievably, certain simpletons will continue believe your BS. Now that’s heresy.

__________________________________________-

The justification against Christianity begins ! DrJ

__________________________________________

Seriously, though…this Hagee nonsense has got to float to the top of the stupid media chain. This is too juicy to leave alone, isn’t it? You got your sex, your religion, and your controversy all wrapped up in one big bright pink neon short shorts no bras bow!

___________________________________________

The media,, will make Billions! Are you hiring? Bottom line for the few,,honesty/integrity 4-all!

Consulting these elites has got to be easier than building bridges! I should of stayed in school! DrJ

________________________________________________



I love the way televangelist and (Men of God) only talk about God’s rath. These are the same type of men that have for thousands of years killed in the name of God, as justification.

This comparison seems a little off to some since commercial television has only been around for a little over sixty years.

Further, often the deaths you attribute to “…in the name of God…” where actually due to something else.

Take the movie “Kingdom of Heaven” as an example. In this movie, the phrase “God wills it!” is used as justification for political power plays including starting wars.

Much of that sort of manipulation went away after Bibles became common.

Using the faith of believers to manipulate them still happens. It doesn’t means there is something wrong with Christianity.

BTW, since you didn’t mention a better substitute for faith, some will assume you don't have one. You may want to consider that it’s as good as it can get with the influence of Christianity. After all, there’s no reason to assume that the last 20 century would magically improve if Christianity had been left out.

In addition, bitblt, being an Evangelical, doesn’t know a single “Man of God” who talks exclusively about God’s wrath. Perhaps, your take-a-way from television evangelists is just the part about wrath. This would seem plausible since you don’t suggest that you believe in Christ, and if this is the case – you don’t believe in Christ, the wrath of God would be the part of the story with which you may find an interest.

There is a Biblical account of several cities being destroyed because of their extreme wickedness – homosexuality. This account is in Genesis 19.

Isaiah remarks on this catastrophic event by making a comparison: “You parade your sin like Sodom.”

This quote would seem an apt description for the Southern Decadence Festival – at least to bitblt. This festival touts itself as a celebration of the gay lifestyle, and is estimated to be worth $100 M dollars to NOLA economy. If you’ve ever wondered why God destroyed all the inhabitants of Sodom, this estimate should give some insight into the reason that the entire city was destroyed. They were all involved and benefited from the evil.



They have caused more bloodshed and wars than anything in history, all in the name of a god. But gay men are sinful…right…. (Heavy, heavy sarcasm)

Believe the league leaders in the deaths due to ideologies category are the Communists who are officially -atheists. Their totals were racked up in only the twentieth century.

If RoeVWade gets another thirty years, the distinction of being the league leader may pass to the US which has allowed unborn to be destroyed due to an ideology - a woman expresses her individual liberty by destroying her unborn..

__________________________

Holy cow!

________________________



Oh the fear! Every time Pastor John Hagee gets diarrhea it’s Gods punishment for him lusting after young boys. Cheney’s pace maker is his punishment for having a gay daughter.

Why don’t we all just commit suicide so God doesn’t have to keep punishing us for being Human Beings?

Hagee and these right wing extremists haven’t a clue…

__________________________________

Here comes the name calling,,, the slippery slope continues!

_____________________________________



And why didn’t it strike San Francisco instead of New Orleans? SF probably has more “gay” events than any other major city in the country.

Hagee is just like all the rest of those who exploit religion to justify their bigotry. They will take any natural disaster and twist it to fit their agenda, knowing that their faithful will gobble it up.

Everybody knows that if God really wanted to smite sinners in the United States, he’d probably start with Washington DC.

The real question is if McCain will repudiate Hagee’s anti-gay remarks. My guess is no.

________________________________________

Why should he,, 30% of the white electorate agree with Hagee!DrJ

Media will never go after the white pastor, like the Black one,, some sponsers will get offended,,and nervous!

_______________________________________________-

Well, if we are to believe this nut case why hasen’t his god struck down all the republican, closeted gay’s and pedafile’s.? Crap on a crutch, these bible thumper’s are pure crazy..They are not christian’s, just lunatick business men in a BIG BUSINESS selling hate and fear…Blessings

_______________________________________

I believe the wealthy white/black Christian evangelist manipulated the poor/middle class congregation to vote on wedge issues alone,, blinding them of the fact that the wedge is only between the people and the money.

I know some will say they knew what they were doing,,giving up the money over values is very honorable.

How can they stand up for Rev Wright when they endorsed the right-wing politicians he has accused of the lies of Government.. Oh what tangled webs we weave!



The separation of church and state was placed to protect the people from what?

Bring your own redemption when you come to the barricades of heaven of where I'm from,,,,,,,,,

God is the collective perspective!

DrJ
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

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DrJ;860596 wrote: Sarcasticly sincere,, if there is such a thing,,

It was a,, what you might call a compliment wrapped in a accusation,,

heavy on the compliment,, you seem to have a dog in the fight to discredit the character of the Rev,, or your just defending Christians right to disagree, or both,

I may have read that wrong,, but your delivery of the link,, showed a political intelligence, everyone must respect,, more so than,, "I'm pissed off"...

Maybe I'm assuming to much,, ya think? Oh I was never really pissed at Wright. I was pissed at you for suggesting he deserved defending simply because he was black and/or Christian rather than for any merit in his comments. I'm always over it the instant I think I've gotten my point across.



DrJ wrote: Hey you were strongly contesting my premise that maybe Christians should have run to the aid of a fellow Christian, and I've read some stuff on this site,,

Right wing,,views You got me to write the "N" word too,,,:lips:

back when I was nieve:sneaky: last week,,,:yh_eyebro

Another compliment,, you really need to keep up,,manI'm trying. :D

DrJ wrote: Now this thing about a committee,,

The Christian coalition,, of evangelist,, who have they been urging people to vote for? Who did they urge us to vote for back in 2000? How about 2004?

They are a powerful voting block,, their problem is,, they haven't realized voting on wedge issues alone is a mistake that benefits the rich only!

Or have they? Is the rich very informed Preacher,, manipulating his/her own congregation,, or are the politicians manipulating the Church?

I have trouble seeing the politician doing this without help..

Have you ever heard the term corporate worship?

The wedge,, in all honesty ,,is between the people,, and the money..

Does that sound like a conspiracy to you?

What keeps poor and middle class people from seeing this?

God,,guns,,$$$ 4 the rich only.....New world Order stuff,,

explain why I'm wrong there,, I really want to be!

Now here comes Rev Wright,, who does he accuse?

The same people they helped put in office,, My theory..You probably would have been right if all this had happened during the general election, but this was a canibal's job. Dems are eating their own this time, I think.

As for those televangelists, they have money already. Lots of it and giving a sermon is like turning on a spigot. The coalition is for the stuff beyond money - power. I think they get hooked on it like heroin and just can't help looking for more. As for corporate worship & the rest, let's break them out into separate threads and pick them apart.



DrJ wrote: Look,, Ill be honest,, if it wasn't for you,, people would still be wondering how I could be so wrong on slavery,, or what side of the issue I'm truly on,, and the best one,, The jews were Roman soldiers,,,:-5



Thx for the quote thing,,No probs.

DrJ wrote: Thx for the vote thing,, I just happen to be writing in the thread with Cspan in the background,,,,,



This is a conversation that benefits the country as a whole,,

I respect all views,, all positions,, point/counterpt,,,



There are no losers,, I think if you don't have conviction when you express an opinion,, the discussion means nothing and dies..



How can Christians not see how they have jumped in to a political bind,, where belief and party loyalty collide? Help me understand this,, in your way,I couldn't agree more about conviction.

I really believe that you can't legislate morality. For churches to push for such legislation is to take shortcuts and try to get someone else to do their job, imo. I don't want politicians to try to teach me right from wrong; I don't want preachers to tell me how fast I can drive on public highways. Church and State are vital to our society in very different ways, and we should always be wary when one encroaches on the other.



DrJ wrote: Do you think this thread offends some? My views in perticular

Your right about hannity and Rush,, being old news,, and this Hagee guy is history, but the Roves of these times have many tools...



This is what I'd like to know,,

what do you think is going to happen to Rev Wright?:-6Of course this thread offends someone. You can't find a thread in this Garden that doesn't offend somebody somewhere. Lot's of people hate the word game threads, for instance. Hell, threads about offending people offends probably half of the Gardeners, and then the other half get in a tiff that anyone could find offense in such an innocent conversation! LOL!!



I predict Rev Wright will capitalize on his 15 minutes of fame by publishing a book. I don't think we'll see much more of him. This'll eventually fade.... unless Obama takes him up on his offer to be Vice Pres!
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by Accountable »

gmc;860672 wrote: True, pity in a way because there is enough reality to get annoyed without making things up.EXACTLY!!

What's the point in trying to make dead rats stink? It's like the prosecutor who says, "Oh, sure, your honor, we have the murder confession and the video tape, but wait till I tell you what he did to your daughter's puppy on the way here!" It's just dumb.
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

[QUOTE=Accountable;861780]Oh I was never really pissed at Wright. I was pissed at you for suggesting he deserved defending simply because he was black and/or Christian rather than for any merit in his comments. I'm always over it the instant I think I've gotten my point across.



I'm trying. :D



Actually I was trying to get away from that angle,, but it was you that kept pulling it back with your bigotry magnet,,,an obsession with the aids epidemic....

My story and I'm stickin' to it:yh_whistl





[QUOTE=Accountable;861780]

You probably would have been right if all this had happened during the general election, but this was a canibal's job. Dems are eating their own this time, I think.

As for those televangelists, they have money already. Lots of it and giving a sermon is like turning on a spigot. The coalition is for the stuff beyond money - power. I think they get hooked on it like heroin and just can't help looking for more. As for corporate worship & the rest, let's break them out into separate threads and pick them apart.{/QUOTE}

I was explaining why I think no one took up for Rev Wright,,My Theory,,

These wealthy evangelist convince poor people to vote against their own economic interest,, God guns/$$$ who just happen to be Republicans,,

Pro-life republicans--pro gun,,,pro rich,,pro-corporate,,

A manipulation that divides those less fortunate,, uneducated,, unaware,,

This type of manipulation is low maintenence,, self supporting,, tell them this,,

can you guess the reaction,,, a very understandable natural rejection of reality.

There's more to that,, at another time....

You deal with young minds,, convincing them of the shadow,, from youth alone,, is a miracle of life,,, have you ever wished you could remove blinders,, warn of things up ahead,, without hurting feelings,, its hard,, thing to do..

You say this was cannibalism, they did it to themselves:-3

That is but one perspective,, try to add another to it,,

I see the wealthy taking care of its own.

Write a story combining the two,, does yours weaken or get stronger?

The preacher spoke in loud harsh terms,, against,,, not for,,anti,, they seen,,,possibilities,,opportunities

strange perspectives,,fear,,,,,,,,flags,,,,,the acceptance,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,stars,,,,understanding,,fear,,,,

valleys,,shadows separations,,,,,one against the other,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,stripes,.divide and,,,etc etc

Can you still see yours? You don't even think their that smart,,do ya?

I hope not,,too,,,,!
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Jester;861895 wrote: DrJ,

ON the John Hagee issue

Like Wright, Hagee is a nobody.


It's hard finding the seed that becomes the idea that leads to somebody,,

I get a kick out of Hagee,,, stubborn,,pride,, stops all learning...

I guess revelations tightens that jaw,, watch,, when he speaks,,lock-jaw..

Media has to redeem itself!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:yh_shame
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

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DrJ;861903 wrote: [quote=Accountable;861780]You probably would have been right if all this had happened during the general election, but this was a canibal's job. Dems are eating their own this time, I think.

As for those televangelists, they have money already. Lots of it and giving a sermon is like turning on a spigot. The coalition is for the stuff beyond money - power. I think they get hooked on it like heroin and just can't help looking for more. As for corporate worship & the rest, let's break them out into separate threads and pick them apart.


I was explaining why I think no one took up for Rev Wright,,My Theory,,

These wealthy evangelist convince poor people to vote against their own economic interest,, God guns/$$$ who just happen to be Republicans,,

Pro-life republicans--pro gun,,,pro rich,,pro-corporate,,

A manipulation that divides those less fortunate,, uneducated,, unaware,,

This type of manipulation is low maintenence,, self supporting,, tell them this,,

can you guess the reaction,,, a very understandable natural rejection of reality.

There's more to that,, at another time....You've mentioned the 'God guns $$$' thing before. Mind opening up a new thread to explain that? No doubt it'll generate some heat. :D



DrJ wrote: You deal with young minds,, convincing them of the shadow,, from youth alone,, is a miracle of life,,, have you ever wished you could remove blinders,, warn of things up ahead,, without hurting feelings,, its hard,, thing to do..I see it as the primary part of my job. I'm not an academic specialist; I concentrate on behavior management in an academic setting for kids with emotional disabilities. Getting the kids to make good decisions and take responsibility for their actions is what it's all about for me.



DrJ wrote: You say this was cannibalism, they did it to themselves:-3

That is but one perspective,, try to add another to it,,

I see the wealthy taking care of its own. :-2 Everybody involved here is wealthy.



DrJ wrote: Write a story combining the two,, does yours weaken or get stronger?



The preacher spoke in loud harsh terms,, against,,, not for,,anti,, they seen,,,possibilities,,opportunities

strange perspectives,,fear,,,,,,,,flags,,,,,the acceptance,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,stars,,,,understanding,,fear,,,,

valleys,,shadows separations,,,,,one against the other,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,stripes,.divide and,,,etc etc



Can you still see yours? You don't even think their that smart,,do ya?

I hope not,,too,,,,!
Sorry, I don't think I'm that smart. Ya lost me. :o
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Accountable;861959 wrote: You've mentioned the 'God guns $$$' thing before. Mind opening up a new thread to explain that? No doubt it'll generate some heat. :D



I see it as the primary part of my job. I'm not an academic specialist; I concentrate on behavior management in an academic setting for kids with emotional disabilities. Getting the kids to make good decisions and take responsibility for their actions is what it's all about for me.



:-2 Everybody involved here is wealthy.



Sorry, I don't think I'm that smart. Ya lost me. :o


You ever hear Chris Rock's routine about the difference between the rich,,and the wealthy,, people that make under a million a year compared to those that make a billion,,, a whole different class....

I admire anyone who takes the time with those impared in life through no fault of their own,, I used to think how un-just it was for my uncle,, my girlfriends brother,

I look at them as the M. Jordans of this life,, who have mastered the sport of living enough to be able to tie one hand behind their back,, and put on a blind fold to make it more competitive for us self impaired so-called normal folk.

Jester;862158 wrote: I wanted to say this on the other post but left it out...

If you hold up a good example of a man for me to support and defend I'll be glad to do it, but the men you held up, Hagee and Wright as examples, arent men of character. They are both, men who speak for thier own selves and not truly God fearing men.

Great discussion though DrJ, I hope ya stick around and get some more discussion going.


This is the meat of my subject,, I don't defend them as men,, I'm not concerned with their character,,,quite frankly,, I'm surprised how people actually believe in their mind they understand anything to do with their character,, unless they do live next door to them ... These are the type of things that show our knowledge of a man like:-6 Christ,:-6,,,,,,unless you have walked in their shoes...:-6

Perspectives are like fingerprints,, all different,,that shape our understanding...

I try not to judge them either way,, I understand we all have impairments,, my main point was that people like Hagee in company have been functioning judgemental hipocrits for decades,, pushing their congregations to vote for politicians,, and we have never taken them to task,,, but since the state of things for those who represent the people of "means" in this country,, has fallen from grace

'These right wing so-called friends of Religion,,,,, we get a whole new strategy for division,, as they start attacking those of religion,,, you see the money has been their issue all along,, and the wedge their knocking on is between the people and the money,,,only! I believe in their desparation for support they have turned on that same Religion,, you notice the people aren't of the republican voting block,,don't you?

The unborn,, race,, class,,are but available tools in a box that contains many....

What has changed that you know of in any non economic wedge issue?
DrJ
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 9:10 pm

Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Jester;862452 wrote: It comes down on who you want advice from, Im not going to seek Wrights advice on politics or Hagees advice on marriage and the family.

I see more concern over politics these days from every possible angle than ever before, if what it itakes to wake folks up is a lot of controversy than thats one good thing that comes out of all the arguement. If all we do is argue and never move forward then we fail to engage towards solutions. And thats just gonna frustrate more folks the wrong way, either to dismay or to apathy, few of us will activley make it our thing to champion and fight down the line.

So it seems, anyone is open to scrutiny now and just because you say something doesnt mean its credible, isnt that how its always been? A persons reputation speaks for itself. And that can be positive or negative.

Looks liek the way it ought to be, where each of us is held accountable for our words and actions.


Wright is not trying to be a politician,, he is not trying to give advice on who to vote for,,, he is merely trying to show how he holds government accountable for its actions,, as God holds you accountable for your actions...

A difference between love of God,, and country,, Hagee's a whole different show.

Your right everything has its silver lining,, and we are in it!

We are responsible for the things we say,, even if it was 5 years ago and based in fact at that time,, the doubt in these comments is the aids accusation,,

is that what's stopping people from acknowledging the powerful insight being spoken at that time,, right after 'shock and awe' because with our hindsight,, I believe Governments Lie when it comes to big oil...:lips::sneaky:

Right now its popular to believe bad things about the man,, but I recall another time in recent history,,,

Have you seen the movie,,Shut up and sing,,by the Dixie Chicks?

There was a time when a country band was walking in the same shoes....

Judgements are sometimes pre-mature!
DrJ
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 9:10 pm

Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

Jester;862530 wrote: The dixie chicks were just stupid, they had no idea what they were doing, country music dont like unpatriotic anything. They got too big for thier britches and got smacked down for it, live and learn when your a entertainer ya better not get too political, or if you do you better know who yer fans like in politics.

I happen to be a Full supporter of the War in Iraq, it was and is and has been the right thing to do. Without exception. Im a 20 year veteran of the US Army with years of combat action under my boots. It is absolutely imperative that the US keeps the screws to every terror group we can locate and destroy them as quickly as humanly possible even if it takes forever no matter where we need to go to get them.

Absolutely right, judgements are sometimes premature.




It took 16 pages for that cloud to roll in,,,,,:sneaky:

Ok Jester,, Mr Patriot,,, Let me go thru the roll,,

Ty for your service,,,, Hows the VA treating you?

Do you know the truth about my good buddy Pat Tillman?

TELL SOMEBODY!!!!

What was the key word in my message that brought this response?

I need to know,,, and I want you think about it....

Is this why you don't want people speaking truth about Government actions?

I'll tell you right now,, you don't want to hear what I think of people who duck fighting yet have no trouble sending those to die to fight for reasons that keep changing,,, I guess your in the 25% that still trust in these politicians...

I have to admit I was guilty of judging my little dixie chick,, who stood and spoke,, but believe me when I say I admired her willingness to do it,, especially in the face of a country fresh off 9/11,, which happens to be a whole nother show I'm about to get into, I believe that some Americans aren't even trying to find the truth about anything,, because of either pride,,patrotism,, or some kind of hypnotic state they have been placed in,,,,, I don't even begin to think I understand that... I don't want to believe its all ignorance,,,, I'm so sorry Natilie,,, Freedom of expression was attacked by ignorance.

You bring up the Bin Ladans of this world,, why on Gods green earth is our government letting him live free to send postcards back to the families of victims of the attacks,,,

as if he was some long lost relative we just don't see anymore!

Why isn't every American soldier in the hills of Pakistan,, if thats even where he's at,,,

Does the term Bushit mean anything to a fine patriot such as yourself?

The fear mongering is something cowards think of to manipulate populations into sticking their heads in holes and letting someone else drive,,, who might possibly not have my best interest at heart..

This government effects my whole family everyday,, I want to know where exactly I'm being driven,, and for what reason,,, I take offense to whoever blindly follows,, and doesn't open their eyes to at least try to see,, where we are going as a country...............Lets just say it effects me personally..

Imagine a picture of a Billionaire driving through town in his limo,,,admiring the veterans standing tall on the street,,,whose service is the reason he enjoys such luxury,,,and were lucky enough to make it back home,, and admiring the brave soldier as he's taking bites off a sandwich he just pulled out of a dumpster,, because he's free and hungry! Can I get some fries with that,,SIR!!!

Pay Attention! It effects our children,,grand and great children... Speak truth to power!



Thank you,,Jester,,,,I think honesty will get us to solutions quicker,,don't you?

I respect all souls in this discussion,, especially from people like you,,

who were lucky enough to make it back. no judgements! comprende'
gmc
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by gmc »

Jester;862530 wrote: The dixie chicks were just stupid, they had no idea what they were doing, country music dont like unpatriotic anything. They got too big for thier britches and got smacked down for it, live and learn when your a entertainer ya better not get too political, or if you do you better know who yer fans like in politics.

I happen to be a Full supporter of the War in Iraq, it was and is and has been the right thing to do. Without exception. Im a 20 year veteran of the US Army with years of combat action under my boots. It is absolutely imperative that the US keeps the screws to every terror group we can locate and destroy them as quickly as humanly possible even if it takes forever no matter where we need to go to get them.

Absolutely right, judgements are sometimes premature.


Interesting point of view. If they exercise their right of free speech that happens to disagree with yours they are stupid. Doubly so because they knew it would have a detrimental effect on their business.

So basically it seems you are saying they should have kept their opinions to themselves, said only what they think would be acceptable to their fans and let someone else tell them how to think. Patriotism means going along with what you are told and not questioning anything. So you have no respect for them having the courage to speak out about something they think is wrong regardless of the consequences?

Are you sure you want to live in a free country? Cos some of your posts suggest you prefer right wing authoritarianism to liberal democracy and all it entails, free speech, individual liberty,etc etc

Reading this thread has prompted me to have a look at what both hagee and wright have said. Interesting but to an outsider bizarre that religion plays such an important part in political life. It's hard to work out how much it matters. A Christian fundamentalist president would give the rest of the world the heebie jeebies.
gmc
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by gmc »

posted by jester

Sorry, let me be specific, they were stupid for mixing thier entertainment (thier job)with politics, they are perfectly free to do what they want though, the point I disagreew ith them is that they were decidedly anti-war of anykind, not just agasint this administrations policies.


If you have career-especially I think if it's a vocational type career it's often hard to separate what you do from what you are. Clearly some people buy music because they like it some because they think it's the type they should like. e.g There's a lot of intellectual snobbery from those who like classical music ans think pop and rap naff just as there are those who like pop and rap and think classical is not for them. It's all music, Who cares what the musician thinks if the music is good then that should be enough imo. If you can't criticise your politicians without being called unpatriotic maybe you're not as free as you think. But to blacklist a musician (which is my understanding of what happened to them) smacks of macarthyism and rule by fear. Actually I've never heard any of their music apart from earl must die which got air time over here. Actually There's a strange sub culture of people in Glasgow that dress as cowboys and go line dancing and listen to country music.

posted by jester

I think we've been down this road before... Yes, I want freedoms, but I also have the same freedoms to criticise back, is that not what I am doing here? But I want a balance where the liberal folks dont tax me out of my ability to pursuit happiness and the authoritarians dont lord over me so I feel I must take up arms to over throw them, somehwere in there is a good balance even if it goes back and forth a bit from time to time.


:sneaky:I have a secret plan to convince you that you are in fact a closet liberal. It seems in the states liberal has become conflated with communist when the two are mutually exclusive.

posted by jester

Bush isnt a fundamentalist, and I wouldnt call Hagee nore Wright a christian, I'd call them wolves in sheeps clothing.


I'll take your word about Bush. I thought he was. as to hagee and wright the term ba-heid seems appropriate. you have my permission to borrow if you wish to impress your friends with knowledge of foreign words.

http://www.firstfoot.com/scottish_dicti ... 5c605ea35c
DrJ
Posts: 346
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Why don't more Christians defend Rev Wright?

Post by DrJ »

jester wrote:

Battle is fluid, errors happen, they cost lives usually the best ones on your right and your left, and its easier when its yourself, then you dont have to wonder at the steps of error that lead up to things that should never happen but do despite every thing you do to keep them from happening. Its called life. And its not fair.




This is the most insightful statement I've read on this thread,, I see pure honesty in every word and solidifies my belief that this subject will take this country into a more mature,, more intelligent way of thinking about many things,, I could write a book about this statement alone,, more at another time,,a lot more...

This honesty would have been handy when the decision to exclude some key facts to a family was made,,,

The Pat Tillman issue was the first sign people had other priorities, other than the 'War on terror',,,

and it made the war look more like a vehicle to get there.... instead of the justice of an attack...

Why lie,,, when truth sounds so much better? Thinking people wouldn't understand is no excuse.

I mention this only to point out what the perspective of this Rev Wright guy might have been in his attempt to help his congregation understand the world around them,,, a far cry from someone blaming the sins of a people for a natural disaster,,, or a dream of an empire in an armegeddon quest, as we got with a Hagee...

Jesus/Mary and Joseph,, will somebody turn a light on here!



Quote:DrJ

What was the key word in my message that brought this response?

I need to know,,, and I want you think about it....

jester wrote:

Not sure I got the feeling you were anti-iraq. Not sure where you fell in on the 'I support the troops but not the war' garbage so I thought I'd make my stance clear.


Crystal,,,,I got ya,,,Jack

I work on bridges,, I'm into the details,, I'm a football fanatic,, with a gamblin' problem, I'm into the details,,, They had me,, I was glued,, Go America!!! Shock and awe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,baby,, Kill em all!

9/11 hurt me,, hurt my soul,, then they let him escape Tora Bora,, then Pat Tillman,, When I get mad,, I know enough not to fault all the players,, but I have this sick thought of putting the Head coach's head on a stick, but I'm working on it,,,,,,, Ya see,, I found this therapy called writing,, and I recommend it to all..

The truth lies within,, the problem is,, it has to pass thru the halls of my mind to get out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

clearing the path is key!:-5

Quote:DrJ

Is this why you don't want people speaking truth about Government actions?

Jester wrote:

I can handle the truth, I just want it doen in context and for it to actually be the truth. Not some propagandized short sound bite.


Jester!,,,,,,God love ya! Hit it over the head,,, why don't ya! A media mistake! Take a sermon,, and work it so everyone concludes before any investigation,, the short term con played to a tee,, and a political campaign pops the bubbly,,, and rides it out,, hoping it sticks where its supposed to and buys votes on the cheat..

Watch things un-fold this summer with this in mind and see if you see the true game face of a candidate...

I can't even stand to watch Hillary anymore because of it,,, I can see right thru her,,,yet they still cheer,,,scary.

Jester wrote:

Some can fight and do, some can and wont, some cant and shoudn't even try cause they do nothing but get others killed. Its why the US has a volunteer army. And thats the way it should be.


I believe your right,, but that's far cry from the whole truth on the subject of the draft. Some say that if all classes of people in this country had to at least participate the decision process to go to war would change.



jester wrote:

Its a form of ingorance, its not understanding the nature of the threat against us.


_________________________________________________________------

DrJ-----

I believe this threat is aimed at wall st. moreso than any,,, which is my America sort of,, so I believe part of it,, but to say me and mine are in trouble here in backwoods,, you need to get out more,, we fear no one outside this country,, maybe because we don't have as much to lose as the more well off...I'm not sure.

I believe the true strength of this country is in the people,, not the money..

My fear is the economic warfare being conducted by Americans on Americans,,

Keep the God and Guns, we can have as much of that as we wish,,we need money,, food,, books,, Drs,, The meek are going inherit this earth,, It comes from religion,, but its truly more to do with mathmatics.. Hell,, look what the need for oil has done to our actions... and I don't want anyone adding to that statement,, We need to change the deal is all.. I guess being closer to the bottom end its a natural realization for us,,hehehe

___________________________________________________________



Jester wrote:

It takes time, it takes intelligence, it itakes a placement of individuals on the inside, it takes diplomacy, etc. If you knew the level of action thats behind each chek point in Iraq, or afghanistan, what it takes to support that, the police investigative type actions behind the scenes, the collection and processing of thousands of interviews, data of all meduims, translations etc...

Its not all as you say Bushit.
______________________________________________________________-

Tora Bora stands out in my mind,,, I don't claim to understand the inner workings

of leaders,, but you can understand how doubt arises there,, The justification of the war is at stake in all these issues,, catching a killer,, isnt as profitable as hunting one,,,if you know what I mean,,, Would it effect your buisness? How true is the statement,,staying wealthy is harder than becoming Wealthy? Can you imagine knowing the answer to that question, and how it sounds to us reg folk? Hey we still got, $$don't buy happines

_________________________________________________________________



Jester wrote:

Theres a lot of this on both sides, sifting through the garbage is part of the process.


Then both sides are bushit!!! My God,, how far off the path are we? We got Wall st. fear of terror,, Main st,, fear of Wall st,,, Wall st right,, fear of left wall st Global warming,, makes the Sunni shia problem sound simple don't it? Not to mention Taxation against Happiness,, Holy Cow!



Jester wrote:

You have a false picture of most veterans. I am free, fairly healthy, fairly wealthy, I work hard and do not depend on my government for anything other than my safety. No one has ever handed me anything, except an opporutunity. That some ignore the importance of the freedoms that veterans have handed to them is the way it is, humans forget whats beind the scene, its common, I dont fault the folks for forgetting, its as it should be really. A great army should be invisible,,


I work on existing bridges as well,, I see those make shift homes,,,,, I'll agree our perspectives are different,,instead of right or wrong,, This is assuming I think all veterans are homeless,, far from it,, I believe the details need further study, as long as there are any,, maybe if we worked on the delivery of opportunity,, I didn't say change,, just adjust,, for those special cases..

Jester wrote:

Ya'll paid me for my service. Thanks for the thoughts though. And I agree the truth is best. And yes too respect in the discussion goes a long way.



Local Time: 10:19 AM

Local Date: 05-11-2008


There's a reason behind my conviction we made a mistake on this issue,,

I see a callousness in the attitudes that ignore perspectives,, truths are truths,, no matter what perspective they come from..

You are a key voice in this discussion,, Jester,, I have found I need those that might see things different,, more so than agreements,, details,,details details..

We are so lucky to live in such a spacious land that sometimes keeps perspectives from bumping into one another.

You can see the problems that arise when our truths collide and threaten each other, sometimes unecessarily,, but it does and something always comes out,,,



I believe its called,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The Conversation!
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