Embracing His Presence

dontuknowit · Post by **dontuknowit** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:08 pm

any idea of what the Worship Institute is talking about with "Embracing His Presence"?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:43 pm

don:-6

Welcome.

I've heard very little about the Worship Institute. However, I can take a guess at the phrase "Embracing his presence". Many Christians believe that the risen Lord continues to be present with us even now in much the same way that the apostles felt that risen Lord was still with them even after his crucifixion. My personal feeling is that is true.

Shalom

Ted:-6

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:52 am

dontuknowit;851380 wrote: any idea of what the Worship Institute is talking about with "Embracing His Presence"?
The purpose is to 're-focus' Pentecostalism into a more sincere form, or a more apparently sincere form. The whole history of denominationalism is one of credibility, and this is a good example. New denominations or movements arise as the last one loses its novelty and appeal. Pentecostalism came in just as existing mainline denominations were losing members through lack of credibility. But Pentecostalism has been seen as a disappointment (as some knew it would) and the IWI acknowledges that 'we tend to worship “worship”'. But the IWI promises to be different. 'We only want to behold Him.' We shall see what that actually means. But I wouldn't hold your breath, if I were you.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:19 am

It's some kind of bot. Single posts all over the place.

http://www.google.com/search?q=dontukno ... rt=10&sa=N

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:40 am

Accountable;851521 wrote: It's some kind of bot. Single posts all over the place.

http://www.google.com/search?q=dontukno ... rt=10&sa=N
Thanks, Acc.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:46 am

Still, doesn't make the subject less interesting. The person probably just wanted to stir curiosity anyway.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:05 am

Accountable;851539 wrote: Still, doesn't make the subject less interesting. The person probably just wanted to stir curiosity anyway.
Successfully, but not in the way intended, methinks.

dontuknowit · Post by **dontuknowit** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:58 pm

do you think that whether we are able to embrace His presence is based upon the conference itself or do you think that we are fully responsible for our own personal experience?

Post by **spot** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:19 pm

Don, some of us doubt whether you're a real person. You might just be the Lord moving in a mysterious way. Perhaps you could respond to the thread rather than treating it as a write-only space, then we'd know.

dontuknowit · Post by **dontuknowit** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:46 pm

spot;853653 wrote: Don, some of us doubt whether you're a real person. You might just be the Lord moving in a mysterious way. Perhaps you could respond to the thread rather than treating it as a write-only space, then we'd know.

I am truly a real person questioning how others perceive corporate worship, and how they see their personal role in it. I've been to a number of conferences and normal Sunday services, and there have been times when it is easier for me to enter into worship (maybe what the institute of worship is refering to as embracing his presence), and other times there seemed to have been a block.

Post by **spot** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:25 pm

I'm delighted to be able to talk to you.

On a question of first principles, why do you think God wants to be worshipped at all? Is God almighty? Is God the creator of all things? Does it not seem a bit petty for a God to actually desire worship from His creation.

Or do we worship in order to improve ourselves rather than to give?

Is community worship rather than individual worship more acceptable to God?

It would help me get my ideas about worship in tune with your use of the word if we laid the ground first.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:35 pm

dontuknowit;853662 wrote: I am truly a real person questioning how others perceive corporate worship, and how they see their personal role in it. I've been to a number of conferences and normal Sunday services, and there have been times when it is easier for me to enter into worship (maybe what the institute of worship is refering to as embracing his presence), and other times there seemed to have been a block.
I think I understand. There've been many times I visit a church and it seems like everyone is simply going through the motions, as if they forgot why.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:42 am

spot;853671 wrote: I'm delighted to be able to talk to you.

On a question of first principles, why do you think God wants to be worshipped at all? Is God almighty? Is God the creator of all things? Does it not seem a bit petty for a God to actually desire worship from His creation.

Or do we worship in order to improve ourselves rather than to give?

Is community worship rather than individual worship more acceptable to God?

It would help me get my ideas about worship in tune with your use of the word if we laid the ground first.
The only worship God is ultimately interested in is practical goodness, self-control, humility, hard work, kindness, justice, honesty, purity. Now those commodities seem to me to be as common as hen's teeth, certainly among those who call themselves Christians. Pagans are usually better company, more decent, kind and thoughtful. So if communal worship is not producing practical goodness, it can't be real worship. The Bible doesn't talk much about worship. Apart from the widely ignored instruction to speak one at a time, the one explicit instruction for meetings is this:

'What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church.' 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV)

Note the word 'brothers', the word 'everyone', and particularly the word 'strengthening'. That is what 'worship' is for- strengthening, building up the true temple, encouraging, correcting, guiding of individuals in their particular circumstances. Not 'embracing His presence'. If I need to embrace His presence, I need conversion. The church is the meeting of the minds of Christ!

And they are few, and far between.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:24 pm

xyz:-6

I agree with a good deal of that post.

However, I do disagree that it is not about embracing his presence. By embracing his presence we are also embracing all that he taught and lived and continues.

Shalom

Ted:-6

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:28 am

Ted;855140 wrote: xyz:-6

I agree with a good deal of that post.
That's unsurprising. What false teacher would not want to be seen as one of the few, and far between?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:26 am

xyz;855225 wrote: That's unsurprising. What false teacher would not want to be seen as one of the few, and far between?
Is that's how you want to be seen, you need to fake humility a little better.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:06 am

Accountable;855309 wrote: Is that's how you want to be seen, you need to fake humility a little better.
If I'm a fake, how does that excuse you?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:09 am

xyz;856167 wrote: If I'm a fake, how does that excuse you?
Excuse me from what? I haven't asked to be excused.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:54 am

Accountable;856170 wrote: Excuse me from what?
Absence of practical goodness, self-control, humility, hard work, kindness, justice, honesty, purity.

Post by **spot** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:20 am

xyz;856206 wrote: Absence of practical goodness, self-control, humility, hard work, kindness, justice, honesty, purity.

I feel I ought to stand up for Acc at this point and vouch for his purity.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:05 am

xyz;856206 wrote: Absence of practical goodness, self-control, humility, hard work, kindness, justice, honesty, purity.Thank you for excusing me; I'm touched. :-4 However, I'll continue using/having/practicing all of them, as appropriate.

spot;856214 wrote: I feel I ought to stand up for Acc at this point and vouch for his purity.
That's true. I know how to say no. :yh_angel

Redtail · Post by **Redtail** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:11 am

Boy, if you're ever looking for a good debate or argument, usually the later, just go to any topic that includes religion or politics, eh? :rolleyes:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:13 am

Redtail;856236 wrote: Boy, if you're ever looking for a good debate or argument, usually the later, just go to any topic that includes religion or politics, eh? :rolleyes:
No you're wrong about that.

:yh_bigsmi

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:44 am

Accountable;856233 wrote: Thank you for excusing me; I'm touched. :-4 However, I'll continue using/having/practicing all of them, as appropriate.

That's true. I know how to say no. :yh_angel
For the false church, the church of clowns, I suppose that there is not much of a leap from claiming to have the gifts of the Spirit, when you manifestly haven't, to claiming to have the fruits of the Spirit, when you manifestly haven't.

Redtail · Post by **Redtail** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:46 am

Accountable;856239 wrote: No you're wrong about that.

:yh_bigsmi

put up your dukes! wanna fight about it?:wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:01 am

xyz;856257 wrote: For the false church, the church of clowns, I suppose that there is not much of a leap from claiming to have the gifts of the Spirit, when you manifestly haven't, to claiming to have the fruits of the Spirit, when you manifestly haven't.
You're right. You've won me over with that one. Sign me up with your side. You're an inspiration for all things Christian.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:34 am

Accountable;856326 wrote: You're right. You've won me over with that one.
Of course I have. I made you say that. I control your lips, if nothing else.

Post by **spot** » Sun May 04, 2008 12:27 pm

You're not married to each other are you, you two? This sounds awfully like a domestic tiff.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun May 04, 2008 12:36 pm

spot;856490 wrote: You're not married to each other are you, you two? This sounds awfully like a domestic tiff.
YZS :sneaky:

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sun May 04, 2008 1:02 pm

spot;856490 wrote: You're not married to each other are you, you two? This sounds awfully like a domestic tiff.
Now we know what you meant by 'purity'.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:15 am

Fear not,,,,,,,,,,,,,for I am with you!

Tho I walk thru the valley,,,of the shadow,, I shall fear no evil,,,:-3

for thou art with me,,,,,,

Embrace his presence!

Believe;)

Post by **spot** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:23 am

You know, DrJ, I'd much rather not. It isn't so much the Lord who repels me as His adherents on earth. Ewww Christians.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:38 am

I read where someone was wondering what that mean't...

Adherents,,, What do you mean?,, I think I might know,, but not sure.

I believe Christ walked on earth,, but I have to say I can't believe what the scholars call truth,,heck I probably lean more to a Davinci code type belief,, because I believe he was just a man who questioned the belief of that day,, and caused a stir,, that created attention...

I do wonder how many "christians" would think any less of him if they found out his miracles were more symbolic,, than physical,,,

I also think the religion has done a dis service to the feminine,,,

sadly,,,,,,only because of mans insecurity...

Post by **spot** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:24 am

DrJ;856667 wrote: Adherents,,, What do you mean?As in adhesive. Gluey people. Those who stick to the faith.

dontuknowit · Post by **dontuknowit** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:32 pm

xyz;854020 wrote: The only worship God is ultimately interested in is practical goodness, self-control, humility, hard work, kindness, justice, honesty, purity.

This I don't believe. God isn't after works, he is only after relationship. Because we in ourselves cannot perform these things, we are only justified by Jesus Christ. God hungers for worship because he longs for his children just as an earthly father hungers to be embraced by his children. And we do so by worshipping, which is remembering how pure, holy, just, and loving he is. Which we express in song, declarations, dance, and in music to name a few.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:43 pm

dontuknowit;857443 wrote: This I don't believe. God isn't after works, he is only after relationship.
Relationship, with Him, produces works.

'We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.' Eph 2:10 NIV

Those works are self-control, humility, hard work, kindness, justice, honesty, purity. Those who do not have them....

dontuknowit · Post by **dontuknowit** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:05 pm

xyz;857450 wrote: Relationship, with Him, produces works.

'We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.' Eph 2:10 NIV

Those works are self-control, humility, hard work, kindness, justice, honesty, purity. Those who do not have them....

We do not "do" and through the doing then we know God. We know God and then we "do" through the love of God that we accept. We only accept/know God's love through worship, through the word, through the sanctification process.

John 15:3-5 (New International Version)

3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:06 pm

Gluey,,,,,,Crutch?

I see that in a lot of people,, quoting scripture when they are in doubt as to a true understanding,, safely ducking the chance of being wrong...

The truth only comes from within,,,

The only true way of learning the truth,, is by walking the path....

My opinion so far,,

God is gravity,, to the collective perspective we all seek!:-6:-6

Take into account,, I am still a work in progress...:-3

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:12 pm

dontuknowit;857467 wrote: We only accept/know God's love through worship
:wah:

Redtail · Post by **Redtail** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:14 pm

You can quote the bible inside and out and have a complete year to argue with yourself. :rolleyes:

We DO, or at least I do, have more to do than just worship. We must DO His Will, not ours, and to DO that, we must use restraint, which is work for all.....When God gave us His will, he gave us the power to sin, giving us the choice of how to live our life on earth, and to decide on our everlasting destination.

DOING His will sometimes means DOING things I don't wanna DO.........help some scroungy old drunk up from a fall for instance.........he is still a child of God and God would frown upon me for not stopping to help. That is DOING Gods work. It is also the way of spreading the Word..........ministry...........power of example..........it is living to make God smile and happy.

Redtail · Post by **Redtail** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:16 pm

DrJ;857468 wrote:

Take into account,, I am still a work in progress...:-3

Good for you! I pray to be a work in progress for the rest of my days on earth.......only One can be perfect, and he was crucified.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:31 pm

[

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

The finger, thumb and toe,, as religions on the earth,, believe all different things,,

are in different parts,,pointing in different directions...

What does your mind think of the differences in the minds of your finger,, thumb and toe..?

Vengence is mine,, well what if we are just a different part of them? Bummer!

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:06 am

God cannot above me,, nor me beneath him,,, be,,.,

Deniro,,, Cape Fear

Could it be,, we are merely,, God,, on earth,, in pieces!

The collective perspective,, is all powerful!

Walk a mile in my shoes!;)

As 1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cool huh!:-6

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Wed May 07, 2008 9:35 pm

How many can describe the feeling,,of want,, mixed with fear?

Is it possible we crave for the light,,, yet pull the shades in fear as it approaches?

How much has doubt played in my failure?:wah:

What would you say to yourself,, if you met you 10/20 years younger?

Would you even know that person? What would you say?

What could you say that might make a difference in their path at that time?,,,Yahoo,,google!

For me,, I would tell myself,, don't worry so much,, just get here,,

I know more than you,, I fear less,, I am more sure... it don't always have to be pretty,, get over it,,,Just get here,, I got so many plans for you,, sounds totally selfish don't it?

Hey kid,, I don't care what you got to go thru,, to get here,, just buck up, tuck and roll!

Now I imagine what my older self would say to me now,,,

Ditto:-6

Fear not,,,,,,,,,,Embrace it,,,

Hows the weather?:-6