Ted;974274 wrote: gmc:-6
I can agree with your points about the misuse of religion over the centuries. However, not all religious folks take the attitude that theirs is the best or only way. It may only be a minority at the moment but that is changing.
Shalom
Ted:-6
There's seems to be something of a religious revival going on at the moment at least amongst extreme fundamentalist groups In the UK fortunately, they tend not to get much support.
Christian Fundamentalism
Christian Fundamentalism
gmc:-6
There is some of that in NA as well. The attraction is the unsubstantiated promises they make. We live in a very uncertain world and many like the idea of certainty even if it is unfounded. That isn't reality of course but that is how it is.
Shalom
Ted:-6
There is some of that in NA as well. The attraction is the unsubstantiated promises they make. We live in a very uncertain world and many like the idea of certainty even if it is unfounded. That isn't reality of course but that is how it is.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Ted;980283 wrote: gmc:-6
There is some of that in NA as well. The attraction is the unsubstantiated promises they make. We live in a very uncertain world and many like the idea of certainty even if it is unfounded. That isn't reality of course but that is how it is.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Extreme Fundamentalism only gets a hold where there is ignorance and the religious leaders can control the education and information their followers can access. If you don't have people capable of thinking for themselves then you get fundamentalism it becomes a self perpetuating cycle. To paraphrase martin luther reason is the enemy of religion-to have faith you must suspend reason and without reason you have fanaticism. It's very difficult if you are in that kind of environment to break out of it. Why do you think extreme fundamentalism id so prevalent in the US? It's like something out of the middle ages or at least the 1640's and the english civil war. so much hatred and destruction all in the name of a god of love.
Most of the fundamentalist sects are protestant In the UK christian religious conflict becomes sectarian very very quickly. Most of us just don't want to get involved.
There is some of that in NA as well. The attraction is the unsubstantiated promises they make. We live in a very uncertain world and many like the idea of certainty even if it is unfounded. That isn't reality of course but that is how it is.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Extreme Fundamentalism only gets a hold where there is ignorance and the religious leaders can control the education and information their followers can access. If you don't have people capable of thinking for themselves then you get fundamentalism it becomes a self perpetuating cycle. To paraphrase martin luther reason is the enemy of religion-to have faith you must suspend reason and without reason you have fanaticism. It's very difficult if you are in that kind of environment to break out of it. Why do you think extreme fundamentalism id so prevalent in the US? It's like something out of the middle ages or at least the 1640's and the english civil war. so much hatred and destruction all in the name of a god of love.
Most of the fundamentalist sects are protestant In the UK christian religious conflict becomes sectarian very very quickly. Most of us just don't want to get involved.
Christian Fundamentalism
gmc:-6
I think in NA fundamentalism is so rampant because we live in a very uncertain world and fundamentalism appears to offer certainty. Perhaps in part it is a failure in assuming that faith means right belief whereas the word translated to faith is "pistis" which actually means trust. Thus you get all kinds of groups thinking they have the hot line upstairs. LOL
It is also due to literalism which in my personal view is totally absurd and asks the mind to accept the blatantly ridiculous.
Read as metaphor and midrash the outcome is totally different and even makes sense in the 21st cent.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I think in NA fundamentalism is so rampant because we live in a very uncertain world and fundamentalism appears to offer certainty. Perhaps in part it is a failure in assuming that faith means right belief whereas the word translated to faith is "pistis" which actually means trust. Thus you get all kinds of groups thinking they have the hot line upstairs. LOL
It is also due to literalism which in my personal view is totally absurd and asks the mind to accept the blatantly ridiculous.
Read as metaphor and midrash the outcome is totally different and even makes sense in the 21st cent.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
fuzzy:-6
They may try to save you in spite of yourself.LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
They may try to save you in spite of yourself.LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
fuzzy butt;981442 wrote: I've been seeing an insurgence of fundamentalist chuches besmirching our sky lines in the last couple of years. for every islamic temple there is a new baptist chuch and they are huge buildings .
quite frankly it makes me sad because the money for these obstructions to our daily life is coming from outside the country . we've never been big on these institutions in our country but now ................we're being swamped. It's scary and really weird. Fundies are coming here and recruiting, it's not our way and never has been ....
So apparently australia needs to be saved by either the far west or the far east. god i'm glad i live in the country because it's getting ridiculas
so to all those idiots that need to shove money for religious purposes into our country, islamists, amercian churches and the "just plain crazy" ...............GO AWAY we were actually happy before you lot came!!!!!!!!
Jeez, we have children now coming to the doors and handing out religous pamphelts. I would never consider sending my children out for that. My religion is our business, and it is really annoying having people trying to change mine.
quite frankly it makes me sad because the money for these obstructions to our daily life is coming from outside the country . we've never been big on these institutions in our country but now ................we're being swamped. It's scary and really weird. Fundies are coming here and recruiting, it's not our way and never has been ....
So apparently australia needs to be saved by either the far west or the far east. god i'm glad i live in the country because it's getting ridiculas
so to all those idiots that need to shove money for religious purposes into our country, islamists, amercian churches and the "just plain crazy" ...............GO AWAY we were actually happy before you lot came!!!!!!!!
Jeez, we have children now coming to the doors and handing out religous pamphelts. I would never consider sending my children out for that. My religion is our business, and it is really annoying having people trying to change mine.
Christian Fundamentalism
Ted;981409 wrote:
It is also due to literalism which in my personal view is totally absurd and asks the mind to accept the blatantly ridiculous.
Read as metaphor and midrash the outcome is totally different and even makes sense in the 21st cent.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I couldn't agree more.
I get infuriated when people take excerpts that are so realistically inconceivable and try and pass them off as if those occurrences were, or at any time can be true. This is where religion and I completely butt heads.
To me, religion is based entirely off of a moral logic that more often than not is in the form of metaphors or proverbs...It's not to be made literally. To me religion is based off of metaphorical sayings that illustrates the importance of good as seen by those who've experienced it.
To me "God" is based primarily off of the concept of perfection. Which means no one can understand "God" as we know it. Therefore, to me "religion" within it's own right is unneeded. All one needs to be is good hearted. What else is there? You cannot understand "God" and if you have a good heart and care for others I ask anyone, what else is there?
It is also due to literalism which in my personal view is totally absurd and asks the mind to accept the blatantly ridiculous.
Read as metaphor and midrash the outcome is totally different and even makes sense in the 21st cent.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I couldn't agree more.
I get infuriated when people take excerpts that are so realistically inconceivable and try and pass them off as if those occurrences were, or at any time can be true. This is where religion and I completely butt heads.
To me, religion is based entirely off of a moral logic that more often than not is in the form of metaphors or proverbs...It's not to be made literally. To me religion is based off of metaphorical sayings that illustrates the importance of good as seen by those who've experienced it.
To me "God" is based primarily off of the concept of perfection. Which means no one can understand "God" as we know it. Therefore, to me "religion" within it's own right is unneeded. All one needs to be is good hearted. What else is there? You cannot understand "God" and if you have a good heart and care for others I ask anyone, what else is there?
Christian Fundamentalism
fuzzy butt;981592 wrote: WOAH!!! children? That's not good!!! Just in terms of their safety for one.:-2
look I know you guys have a weido view of my religion and to be honest if I was in your country i dont' think i would have hooked up with the JW's,( yanky Jw's seem a little high strung for my liking..) but it never used to be a big deal once . Now everyone is so protective of their beliefs and such it's becoming a farce. for instance When Jw's came to my mum's door many years ago it was like "No i'm not interested " but then they had a good talk about mums garden for over half an hour . See what i mean? now it's all abuse and ridicule What the heck happened to our once lovely state of affairs? where different religions got along?
We have a lady and her family visit us on occasion...
I talk to her for about 10 minutes each time when I'm the one that happens to catch her or them...
I sincerely do not get why people have to be so rude to them. I enjoy her company. She's visited maybe about 10 times over the course of two years...I cannot for the life of me figure out why it is people find those rare occasions to be so inconvenient. She stays for maybe 10 minutes at the most, gives a brief hello accompanied with a bit of enlightenment in regards to her beliefs(Not at any point does it seem as if she's trying to tell me to change my views or I'm going to hell -- This is just cynical as far as my experiences are concerned) all the accompanied with a warm smile.
I suppose it will be just another one of those...
...that I just cannot understand for the life of me.
look I know you guys have a weido view of my religion and to be honest if I was in your country i dont' think i would have hooked up with the JW's,( yanky Jw's seem a little high strung for my liking..) but it never used to be a big deal once . Now everyone is so protective of their beliefs and such it's becoming a farce. for instance When Jw's came to my mum's door many years ago it was like "No i'm not interested " but then they had a good talk about mums garden for over half an hour . See what i mean? now it's all abuse and ridicule What the heck happened to our once lovely state of affairs? where different religions got along?
We have a lady and her family visit us on occasion...
I talk to her for about 10 minutes each time when I'm the one that happens to catch her or them...
I sincerely do not get why people have to be so rude to them. I enjoy her company. She's visited maybe about 10 times over the course of two years...I cannot for the life of me figure out why it is people find those rare occasions to be so inconvenient. She stays for maybe 10 minutes at the most, gives a brief hello accompanied with a bit of enlightenment in regards to her beliefs(Not at any point does it seem as if she's trying to tell me to change my views or I'm going to hell -- This is just cynical as far as my experiences are concerned) all the accompanied with a warm smile.
I suppose it will be just another one of those...
...that I just cannot understand for the life of me.Christian Fundamentalism
I was in the house one day when the Jehovah's Witnesses came up the drive. I turned on the garden hose and soaked them-that's what I had gone in the house to do. It was completely accidental I hadn't seen them coming (it's not something I would do deliberately) but they've never been back since.
Christian Fundamentalism
gmc;981639 wrote: I was in the house one day when the Jehovah's Witnesses came up the drive. I turned on the garden hose and soaked them-that's what I had gone in the house to do. It was completely accidental I hadn't seen them coming (it's not something I would do deliberately) but they've never been back since.
:wah:...
Ah...
They'd probably thought it were accidental!!!...:yh_rotfl...
(Only joking)...
:wah:...
Ah...
They'd probably thought it were accidental!!!...:yh_rotfl...
(Only joking)...
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
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Christian Fundamentalism
qsducks;981547 wrote: Jeez, we have children now coming to the doors and handing out religous pamphelts. I would never consider sending my children out for that. My religion is our business, and it is really annoying having people trying to change mine.
I'm sure if you ask those kids' families, especially their preacher, they'd say their religion is their business as well ... it's just that they really mean it's their business.
I'm sure if you ask those kids' families, especially their preacher, they'd say their religion is their business as well ... it's just that they really mean it's their business.
Christian Fundamentalism
K.Snyder;981678 wrote: :wah:...
Ah...
They'd probably thought it were accidental!!!...:yh_rotfl...
(Only joking)...
Or an act of God
Ah...
They'd probably thought it were accidental!!!...:yh_rotfl...
(Only joking)...
Or an act of God
Christian Fundamentalism
This week there has been an excellent series on Vision TV concerning Islam. It was extremely enlightening and has confirmed what I've been saying. Islam is no different than Christianity in that there are extremes on both the left and right. There are many Muslims in the middle who simply want to live and let live. They want to practice justice and compassion.
It is the extremists that are creating the problem and not all Muslims. So it is in Christianity. Fundamentalism is the problem and leads to extremes in behaviour in any religious faith.
It is totally irrational to claim that all Muslims are evil. That is simply not true.
According to one Christian theologian the bloodiest of all sacred writings in the world is to be found in the book of Revelation.
It is also interesting to note the terrible way in which the west has treated Muslims down through history. It is no wonder that there is anger and animosity. This anger and animosity is a direct result of the behaviour of "Christian" culture found in the west.
Shalom
Ted:-6
It is the extremists that are creating the problem and not all Muslims. So it is in Christianity. Fundamentalism is the problem and leads to extremes in behaviour in any religious faith.
It is totally irrational to claim that all Muslims are evil. That is simply not true.
According to one Christian theologian the bloodiest of all sacred writings in the world is to be found in the book of Revelation.
It is also interesting to note the terrible way in which the west has treated Muslims down through history. It is no wonder that there is anger and animosity. This anger and animosity is a direct result of the behaviour of "Christian" culture found in the west.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss;1000205 wrote: LOL, 'the way we have treated them'? Are you kidding me? How about the way they treat us, not to mention the way they treat each other?
Sorry I'm not buying it.
How about the way christians treated each other? Some of the worst atrocities have been committed in the name of religion. Religious warfare spanning hundreds of years. It's not fiction you know ,a brief trawl through the internet will give you plenty of factual material to check in to-if you can be bothered. I don't see how knowing the reality of christian atrocities detracts from your own faith. On the other hand pretending it didn't happen is putting your head in the sand. What concerns many who are not religious is where fundamentalism-be it christian or muslim can lead. juhad/crusade what is the difference?
Sorry I'm not buying it.
How about the way christians treated each other? Some of the worst atrocities have been committed in the name of religion. Religious warfare spanning hundreds of years. It's not fiction you know ,a brief trawl through the internet will give you plenty of factual material to check in to-if you can be bothered. I don't see how knowing the reality of christian atrocities detracts from your own faith. On the other hand pretending it didn't happen is putting your head in the sand. What concerns many who are not religious is where fundamentalism-be it christian or muslim can lead. juhad/crusade what is the difference?
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss;1000513 wrote: Christians today seldom engage in car bombings directed at anyone in the vicinity, or using a suicide bomb vest directed at anyone in the vicinity, etc.
I’m sure Christianity has some dark times, but Islam has made violence against the innocent their hallmark. There is no comparison, even though there maybe violence in Christianity's history.
If you are worried about small groups of so called fundamentalist Christians in the US that wave signs and call for America's destruction over the vast number of Islamic jihadists that exist then that is a view I just cannot understand. I worry about the rogue cultish fundamentalist giving true Christianity a bad name, but our laws will deal with them when or if they become violent, but Islamic law dictates jihad to mainstream Islamic groups, not rouge cultish splinters of Islamic groups. You don’t have a fundamentalist problem in Islam; you have a mainstream religion that requires violence in their quest to rule all the peoples of the world.
As I said before I just don’t buy it. Be worried about cults that break off from mainline Christianity if you want to but I’d be far more worried about entire religions that live by threat of death to all who will not agree with them. Wear a heavy collar, I hear they cut heads off of people in Eurasia; I’ll keep my head about me for those picket signs being used as weapons. Those evil 'christians' :rolleyes:
I would suggest that you look up the history of the recent Irish troubles - Omagh, Birmingham, Guildford, Woolwich were all bombings aimed at anyone in the vicinity by one group of Christians on another group of Christians in sectarian violence. Omagh was just ten years ago.
I’m sure Christianity has some dark times, but Islam has made violence against the innocent their hallmark. There is no comparison, even though there maybe violence in Christianity's history.
If you are worried about small groups of so called fundamentalist Christians in the US that wave signs and call for America's destruction over the vast number of Islamic jihadists that exist then that is a view I just cannot understand. I worry about the rogue cultish fundamentalist giving true Christianity a bad name, but our laws will deal with them when or if they become violent, but Islamic law dictates jihad to mainstream Islamic groups, not rouge cultish splinters of Islamic groups. You don’t have a fundamentalist problem in Islam; you have a mainstream religion that requires violence in their quest to rule all the peoples of the world.
As I said before I just don’t buy it. Be worried about cults that break off from mainline Christianity if you want to but I’d be far more worried about entire religions that live by threat of death to all who will not agree with them. Wear a heavy collar, I hear they cut heads off of people in Eurasia; I’ll keep my head about me for those picket signs being used as weapons. Those evil 'christians' :rolleyes:
I would suggest that you look up the history of the recent Irish troubles - Omagh, Birmingham, Guildford, Woolwich were all bombings aimed at anyone in the vicinity by one group of Christians on another group of Christians in sectarian violence. Omagh was just ten years ago.
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss:-6
You don't buy it because you simply don't want to look at the truth. As Bryn Mawr has suggested you might like to check into history. You may be somewhat surprised at the evil perpetrated by all of the great faiths including Christianity past and present.
Yes there are some untoward sections in the Qur'an every bit as much as there is in the Christian Bible and the Jewish Torah. That does not take away from the fact that all great faiths were originally based on justice and compassion.
Fundamentalism in any faith is basically unholy and unacceptable.
It is interesting to note that I joined in on a Christian discussion group about a year ago. I knew it was a very fundamentalist group with a great many members. I am sorry to say that the vitriol and hatred that came at me from that group was anything but Christian. It was unholy and an abomination to the human race. As I have said before the only folks that have ever called me names or condemned me to hell over the years have always been "Christians". I have gotten along well with folks and friends of many faiths and no faith. And less anyone think differently I live my Christian faith 24/7. If anyone is interested just go to some Christian discussion groups on the net, sit back and laugh but also feel the the anger. If this were Christian I would become a Buddhist.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You don't buy it because you simply don't want to look at the truth. As Bryn Mawr has suggested you might like to check into history. You may be somewhat surprised at the evil perpetrated by all of the great faiths including Christianity past and present.
Yes there are some untoward sections in the Qur'an every bit as much as there is in the Christian Bible and the Jewish Torah. That does not take away from the fact that all great faiths were originally based on justice and compassion.
Fundamentalism in any faith is basically unholy and unacceptable.
It is interesting to note that I joined in on a Christian discussion group about a year ago. I knew it was a very fundamentalist group with a great many members. I am sorry to say that the vitriol and hatred that came at me from that group was anything but Christian. It was unholy and an abomination to the human race. As I have said before the only folks that have ever called me names or condemned me to hell over the years have always been "Christians". I have gotten along well with folks and friends of many faiths and no faith. And less anyone think differently I live my Christian faith 24/7. If anyone is interested just go to some Christian discussion groups on the net, sit back and laugh but also feel the the anger. If this were Christian I would become a Buddhist.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Christian theologian Hans Kung in his book "The Origin of All Things" has rightly shown that "Light" is to be found in all of the great faiths not just in Christianity. This is a conclusion that I came to several years ago.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
I'm glad to see some living beings here. I was beginning to think I was part of the "Left Behind" group. LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss;1001733 wrote: I did say seldom.
I'm not familiar with those bombings. I'm sure you are right. But in comparison those four bombings, the oldest one being ten years ago, to 4 or more everyday by Islam?
I'm still not buying that christianity is even 1/1000th as violent as Islam.
You should be because where do you think the islamic terrorists got the idea for car bombs? All these years the american administration refused to class the IRA as terrorists and pretended they were actually gallant freedom fighters allowing american organisations to send money to them for weapons ignoring appeals that they should be stopped. It took two planes flying in to buildings for them to finally understand that one man's gallant freedom fighter is sometimes just a terrorist.
Actually western european christians are a great deal more warlike and violent than muslims which is probably just as well or they wouldn't have been fought to a standstill in the past or indeed conquered later by the british and french. One on one I just don't believe that the average American soldier is less violent than the average muslim. Surprised you do.
If you actually took the time to do some research and post links to back up your assertions it would be interesting. But constant repetition that you don't believe it to be true and ignoring all the evidence to the contrary does you little credit. The problem is neither christianity or islam but the extremists on both sides. they have jihad christians call it crusade-it's the same thing convert people to the respective faith by force and slaughter those who won't convert-or in some cases slaighter those that did because they weren't born christians.
I'm not familiar with those bombings. I'm sure you are right. But in comparison those four bombings, the oldest one being ten years ago, to 4 or more everyday by Islam?
I'm still not buying that christianity is even 1/1000th as violent as Islam.
You should be because where do you think the islamic terrorists got the idea for car bombs? All these years the american administration refused to class the IRA as terrorists and pretended they were actually gallant freedom fighters allowing american organisations to send money to them for weapons ignoring appeals that they should be stopped. It took two planes flying in to buildings for them to finally understand that one man's gallant freedom fighter is sometimes just a terrorist.
Actually western european christians are a great deal more warlike and violent than muslims which is probably just as well or they wouldn't have been fought to a standstill in the past or indeed conquered later by the british and french. One on one I just don't believe that the average American soldier is less violent than the average muslim. Surprised you do.
If you actually took the time to do some research and post links to back up your assertions it would be interesting. But constant repetition that you don't believe it to be true and ignoring all the evidence to the contrary does you little credit. The problem is neither christianity or islam but the extremists on both sides. they have jihad christians call it crusade-it's the same thing convert people to the respective faith by force and slaughter those who won't convert-or in some cases slaighter those that did because they weren't born christians.
Christian Fundamentalism
gmc:-6
Some good points.
The problem as I see it is that some have made up their minds and don't want to be confused by the truth. As someone once said "Ignorance is bliss."
The problems of Phelps, Robertson, the Reconstructionists: http://www.qrd.org/QRD/www/rrr/recon.html
It is interesting to note that I tried almost all of these sites and a few came up but the rest were blocked????
http://www.qrd.org/QRD/www/rrr/propag.html
Finally someone recognizes this hatred for what it is.
If anyone wants to find out just how silly but dangerous this is google "Reconstructionists". It is referred to as part of the Christian right.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Some good points.
The problem as I see it is that some have made up their minds and don't want to be confused by the truth. As someone once said "Ignorance is bliss."
The problems of Phelps, Robertson, the Reconstructionists: http://www.qrd.org/QRD/www/rrr/recon.html
It is interesting to note that I tried almost all of these sites and a few came up but the rest were blocked????
http://www.qrd.org/QRD/www/rrr/propag.html
Finally someone recognizes this hatred for what it is.
If anyone wants to find out just how silly but dangerous this is google "Reconstructionists". It is referred to as part of the Christian right.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
I googled "Christian Right" and this is one of what I found:
http://www.theocracywatch.org/
http://atheism.about.com/od/religiousri ... ligion.htm
This is indeed frightening.
Shalom
Ted:-6
http://www.theocracywatch.org/
http://atheism.about.com/od/religiousri ... ligion.htm
This is indeed frightening.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss:-6
If you read Num 31 it will be quite apparent that God apparently not only condoned but demanded what amounts to war crimes. It clearly says the Hebrew soldiers were to kill every man woman and child but they were allowed to keep the virgins for themselves. That is no less reprehensible than Islamic extremists.
Shalom
Ted:-6
If you read Num 31 it will be quite apparent that God apparently not only condoned but demanded what amounts to war crimes. It clearly says the Hebrew soldiers were to kill every man woman and child but they were allowed to keep the virgins for themselves. That is no less reprehensible than Islamic extremists.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss:-6
I'm sorry but that does not wash. They claim to be Christian. Regardless of your definition that is their claim. Even P. Robertson crossed the line when he called for the assassination of Pres. Chavez of Venezuela. Falwell it seems supported that call. You have given me your judgment but it takes more than that. Having been raised a member of such a church I can tell you they sincerely believe they are Christians.
In addition the same thing could be said about a number of Muslim groups as well; they are not true Muslims. ????? If that is the case than we should not condemn all of Islam for the atrocities of some of their groups.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I'm sorry but that does not wash. They claim to be Christian. Regardless of your definition that is their claim. Even P. Robertson crossed the line when he called for the assassination of Pres. Chavez of Venezuela. Falwell it seems supported that call. You have given me your judgment but it takes more than that. Having been raised a member of such a church I can tell you they sincerely believe they are Christians.
In addition the same thing could be said about a number of Muslim groups as well; they are not true Muslims. ????? If that is the case than we should not condemn all of Islam for the atrocities of some of their groups.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss:-6
Once again that does not wash. You are suggesting that God is a "do as I say entity and not do as I do". That is as if somehow the God who through Jesus declared the greatest commandment was love of God and fellow man. Sorry but how are we to trust such a god. That is like a parent who smokes telling their child they are not to. It is called hypocrisy. This is not the God I trust.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Once again that does not wash. You are suggesting that God is a "do as I say entity and not do as I do". That is as if somehow the God who through Jesus declared the greatest commandment was love of God and fellow man. Sorry but how are we to trust such a god. That is like a parent who smokes telling their child they are not to. It is called hypocrisy. This is not the God I trust.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss:-6
Your first post I find very difficult to understand. Yes branches of Islam are terrorists but so are branches of all the great faiths. Are you trying to tell me that all Muslims are terrorists? If that is so then you simply do not know any Muslims in the center.
You do have a very strange view of God. It would appear that we have to do exactly as He says but He can go off and kill willy nilly anyone He pleases. If you read your Bible more closely you would find that love tempers judgment. We are told to love our enemies and do good to those who hate us. In Rom 11:32 we read "For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all. In Matt. we read about the hated pharisees and the temple priests. Jesus was speaking to them when he said "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you." Clearly even the hated temple authorities are going to enter the kingdom of God.
Matt 22:34ff we are told that all of the commandments are built on one, the love of God and the love of our fellow man.
I do not believe in a god that will ask others to follow his laws but says that he does not have to. That is blatantly absurd.
Do you have your head in the sand? I don't believe so. I believe you have been brain washed to accept a warped view of God. We must learn to interpret the OT in light of the NT. We must also learn to discern the word of God in the very human words of the Bible in light of modern accumulated knowledge and understanding. We cannot continue to live as if the Bible interpreted literally is even valid. Read that way it is a dead book. Since I do not believe the Bible is a dead book I realize that it must be reinterpreted in light of the 21st cent. Thus it continues to be a living book.
I have very mixed feelings about war. I realize that at times it is necessary. At the same time I realize that all life is sacred whether they be Christian, Muslim etc and as such while it is at times necessary to take a life to same others we ought to be concerned about those we are forced to kill. They too were living beings with families who loved them and God who loved them.
As for Allah being a false god that is simply not true. Right from the beginning Muslims believed they worshiped the same God. God has a thousand names: Yahweh, Elohim, God, the Great Spirit, Vishnu and at times as in Buddhism they refuse to name God because they think that a familiarity which amounts to blasphemy. There is only one God. Different cultures have some different concepts of God but they all accept the reality of the Ultimate Reality we call God.
You need to read and study and learn. The more I study and learn both formally and informally makes me realize how little any of us really knows or understands.
The Bible says "God is love." That love in unconditional and it is love for all of human kind as well as the entirety of the cosmos.
I could go on but this is long enough.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Your first post I find very difficult to understand. Yes branches of Islam are terrorists but so are branches of all the great faiths. Are you trying to tell me that all Muslims are terrorists? If that is so then you simply do not know any Muslims in the center.
You do have a very strange view of God. It would appear that we have to do exactly as He says but He can go off and kill willy nilly anyone He pleases. If you read your Bible more closely you would find that love tempers judgment. We are told to love our enemies and do good to those who hate us. In Rom 11:32 we read "For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all. In Matt. we read about the hated pharisees and the temple priests. Jesus was speaking to them when he said "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you." Clearly even the hated temple authorities are going to enter the kingdom of God.
Matt 22:34ff we are told that all of the commandments are built on one, the love of God and the love of our fellow man.
I do not believe in a god that will ask others to follow his laws but says that he does not have to. That is blatantly absurd.
Do you have your head in the sand? I don't believe so. I believe you have been brain washed to accept a warped view of God. We must learn to interpret the OT in light of the NT. We must also learn to discern the word of God in the very human words of the Bible in light of modern accumulated knowledge and understanding. We cannot continue to live as if the Bible interpreted literally is even valid. Read that way it is a dead book. Since I do not believe the Bible is a dead book I realize that it must be reinterpreted in light of the 21st cent. Thus it continues to be a living book.
I have very mixed feelings about war. I realize that at times it is necessary. At the same time I realize that all life is sacred whether they be Christian, Muslim etc and as such while it is at times necessary to take a life to same others we ought to be concerned about those we are forced to kill. They too were living beings with families who loved them and God who loved them.
As for Allah being a false god that is simply not true. Right from the beginning Muslims believed they worshiped the same God. God has a thousand names: Yahweh, Elohim, God, the Great Spirit, Vishnu and at times as in Buddhism they refuse to name God because they think that a familiarity which amounts to blasphemy. There is only one God. Different cultures have some different concepts of God but they all accept the reality of the Ultimate Reality we call God.
You need to read and study and learn. The more I study and learn both formally and informally makes me realize how little any of us really knows or understands.
The Bible says "God is love." That love in unconditional and it is love for all of human kind as well as the entirety of the cosmos.
I could go on but this is long enough.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss;1003367 wrote: I have no idea about why the US did not classify IRA as terrorist. Not even sure if that’s true, other than us just staying out of a local issue knowing that Ireland should take care of its own problems. I always thought Ireland was the kind of place that preferred to handle their issues alone since Ireland was neutral during WW2. As I understood it they even harbored a Nazi U-boat for a time preventing the British navy from destroying it.
Firstly, research NORAID and the support given to it by the US Government (and, as gmc says, the refusal of the US government to extradite known IRA terrorists to the UK). Far more than "just staying out of a local issue".
Then reconcile your attitude with your stance on Iraq.
Whilst the Irish Government could not, politically, support and fight alongside the British during WW2 there were many, many Irishmen who did.
Firstly, research NORAID and the support given to it by the US Government (and, as gmc says, the refusal of the US government to extradite known IRA terrorists to the UK). Far more than "just staying out of a local issue".
Then reconcile your attitude with your stance on Iraq.
Whilst the Irish Government could not, politically, support and fight alongside the British during WW2 there were many, many Irishmen who did.
Christian Fundamentalism
posted by hoss
I read about the IRA bombings, and did some research. In all the online sources I read no source indicated it was a religious war. Can you give me a source that gives religious regulations as part of their demands? It appears to me that it was more a land war and a dispute over who they wanted to be ruled by.
Definitely sectarian in nature. The recent troubles have economic factors playing a part as well but different religion is at the heart of it. Bear in mind millions of Irishmen emigrated to america-just go to Boston on St Patricks's day. They still bear a grudge against the british and couldn't accept that they were supporting terrorist.
Brief outline of the history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
If you wonder why something from over three hundred years ago still matters-and it is a good question. I would point out many Americans think the war of independence was a series of events that still matters.
Basic conflict behind the religious wars in europe. The simple question Who rules? The pope in Rome or the king and his parliament. Obviously it's not quite that simple but in the name of their religion people did dreadful things.
Brief outline
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/REFORM/WARS.HTM
posted by hoss
One on one, the typical Muslim soldier follows a religion that has its ultimate desire to conquer the world for Allah.
Swop the word catholic for muslim and you get an idea of the way protestants felt at the time. Come to that I know a few that still do. I happen to live in an area of scotland where sectarianism still goes on.
Dig in as much as you like, there is wrong on both sides but christian perpetrated the most dreadful atrocities on each other. Fighting the muslims was almost a side show.
You'll like this, christian knights standing against overwhelming odds and beating the muslim invader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Malta_(1565)
posted by hoss
I don’t think you can conclusively determine that the Islamic terror organizations got the idea for car bombings from the IRA.
Course there have been booby traps right from ancient times. The IRA mastered the art of the roadside bomb and passed on their designs to other terrorist groups.
http://www.israelinsider.com/views/arti ... s_0378.htm
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/farc-ira-pr.cfm
There are numerous sources pointing to the link including some from your own intelligence services.
I read about the IRA bombings, and did some research. In all the online sources I read no source indicated it was a religious war. Can you give me a source that gives religious regulations as part of their demands? It appears to me that it was more a land war and a dispute over who they wanted to be ruled by.
Definitely sectarian in nature. The recent troubles have economic factors playing a part as well but different religion is at the heart of it. Bear in mind millions of Irishmen emigrated to america-just go to Boston on St Patricks's day. They still bear a grudge against the british and couldn't accept that they were supporting terrorist.
Brief outline of the history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
If you wonder why something from over three hundred years ago still matters-and it is a good question. I would point out many Americans think the war of independence was a series of events that still matters.
Basic conflict behind the religious wars in europe. The simple question Who rules? The pope in Rome or the king and his parliament. Obviously it's not quite that simple but in the name of their religion people did dreadful things.
Brief outline
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/REFORM/WARS.HTM
posted by hoss
One on one, the typical Muslim soldier follows a religion that has its ultimate desire to conquer the world for Allah.
Swop the word catholic for muslim and you get an idea of the way protestants felt at the time. Come to that I know a few that still do. I happen to live in an area of scotland where sectarianism still goes on.
Dig in as much as you like, there is wrong on both sides but christian perpetrated the most dreadful atrocities on each other. Fighting the muslims was almost a side show.
You'll like this, christian knights standing against overwhelming odds and beating the muslim invader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Malta_(1565)
posted by hoss
I don’t think you can conclusively determine that the Islamic terror organizations got the idea for car bombings from the IRA.
Course there have been booby traps right from ancient times. The IRA mastered the art of the roadside bomb and passed on their designs to other terrorist groups.
http://www.israelinsider.com/views/arti ... s_0378.htm
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/farc-ira-pr.cfm
There are numerous sources pointing to the link including some from your own intelligence services.
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss;1003815 wrote: I think that’s another thread but I can't understand why Ireland was neutral, but that was their decision. I am glad some recognized that they needed to fight.
I'll look up NORAID.
My stance on Iraq? You mean my justification for it?
On a side note: I enjoyed the picture of you with your boat. The boat is interesting, we don't have river boats like that here.
You appeared to be justifying the US governments stance on the IRA as keeping out of a local issue but you hold it right that the US government went into Iraq which was, at the time, nothing but a local issue - no terrorist connections, no threats to outside parties, just mistreatment of his own people. It seems to be an inconsistent position.
Guinevere is our pride and joy and the way I relax and unwind. She's ideally suited to our inland waterways but I doubt she'd be too good on your larger rivers.
I'll look up NORAID.
My stance on Iraq? You mean my justification for it?
On a side note: I enjoyed the picture of you with your boat. The boat is interesting, we don't have river boats like that here.
You appeared to be justifying the US governments stance on the IRA as keeping out of a local issue but you hold it right that the US government went into Iraq which was, at the time, nothing but a local issue - no terrorist connections, no threats to outside parties, just mistreatment of his own people. It seems to be an inconsistent position.
Guinevere is our pride and joy and the way I relax and unwind. She's ideally suited to our inland waterways but I doubt she'd be too good on your larger rivers.
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss;1003839 wrote: I have work to do GMC, so I won't be able to answer you till later this evening.
No problem. Bearing in mind the time differential as well I didn't actually expect an instant reply. Besides if you actually read all that and cross reference it'll take you some time. I'm just trying to give you food for thought rather than persuade you to change your opinions-if that makes sense. One of the attractions of this forum is people of such diverse opinions can disagree-sometimes passionately disagree-without it getting personal. Although the written word sometimes does not come across the way the spoken word would and gives offence when none was intended.
To help you when dealing with those on the other side of the world please remember the language differences. If someone accuses you of talking a load of bollocks they are not being rude, although the word itself sounds really really rude, they are merely stating that they disagree with your opinion. By the same token if you are accused of , havering, wittering, blethering they all mean the same thing. Pillock means the same as numpty and are mildly derogatory but in a humourous way. For instance another name for your congress might be the numpty house-it's certainly what the scottish parliament is known as. When speaking to welsh people please make no impolite references to sheep as they are sensitive on the subject. The english are so thick skinned you can't actually insult them in any meaningful way-they either don't care or are too thick to notice. Needless to say the scots and Irish are wonderful.
The colloquial term for a religious fundamentalist in the UK is holy roller. Those of the charismatic disposition or indeed the pentecostal disposition are known as happy clappies. I once heard a member of the church of scotland (his church and the mormon church are side by side) invite a visiting american mormon along to an ecumenical evening with the pentecostal church by phrasing it -"do you fancy going to a knees up with the happy clappies after the evening service?". The facial expression was wonderful to behold.
I hope the above helps in some small way and remember of you see British posters apparently being really rude to each other remember sometimes we are just using funny words.
posted by ted
You need to read and study and learn. The more I study and learn both formally and informally makes me realize how little any of us really knows or understands.
On the other hand the more i study and learn the more i wonder why anyone is religious at all. Was it not Martin Luther that said reason is the greatest enemy faith has?
No problem. Bearing in mind the time differential as well I didn't actually expect an instant reply. Besides if you actually read all that and cross reference it'll take you some time. I'm just trying to give you food for thought rather than persuade you to change your opinions-if that makes sense. One of the attractions of this forum is people of such diverse opinions can disagree-sometimes passionately disagree-without it getting personal. Although the written word sometimes does not come across the way the spoken word would and gives offence when none was intended.
To help you when dealing with those on the other side of the world please remember the language differences. If someone accuses you of talking a load of bollocks they are not being rude, although the word itself sounds really really rude, they are merely stating that they disagree with your opinion. By the same token if you are accused of , havering, wittering, blethering they all mean the same thing. Pillock means the same as numpty and are mildly derogatory but in a humourous way. For instance another name for your congress might be the numpty house-it's certainly what the scottish parliament is known as. When speaking to welsh people please make no impolite references to sheep as they are sensitive on the subject. The english are so thick skinned you can't actually insult them in any meaningful way-they either don't care or are too thick to notice. Needless to say the scots and Irish are wonderful.
The colloquial term for a religious fundamentalist in the UK is holy roller. Those of the charismatic disposition or indeed the pentecostal disposition are known as happy clappies. I once heard a member of the church of scotland (his church and the mormon church are side by side) invite a visiting american mormon along to an ecumenical evening with the pentecostal church by phrasing it -"do you fancy going to a knees up with the happy clappies after the evening service?". The facial expression was wonderful to behold.
I hope the above helps in some small way and remember of you see British posters apparently being really rude to each other remember sometimes we are just using funny words.
posted by ted
You need to read and study and learn. The more I study and learn both formally and informally makes me realize how little any of us really knows or understands.
On the other hand the more i study and learn the more i wonder why anyone is religious at all. Was it not Martin Luther that said reason is the greatest enemy faith has?
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Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Christian Fundamentalism
Well i completely believe in Christ and I choose to. I'm not in any way ever going to force anyone to. I believe you can't force a relationship with God and you can't force society to do what you want no matter how right or wrong you think you are... no matter what you are. Calling us bigots and other things like that is a little close minded...
Smoke signals ftw!
Christian Fundamentalism
Hoss:-6
Once again you have stated your opinion. I presented you with some issues that you seem to not want to discuss. You have not responded to my criticisms.
One of the key ones was questioning how one can trust anyone who creates a game complete with rules but when s/he plays s/he doesn't have to follow the rules. This is simply not a trustworthy situation.
You made the comment that we don't worship the same God. Since there is only one God and not others we most definitely are worshiping the same God. What it amounts to is that your concept of God is different from mine.
Are you telling me that all Muslims are terrorists? It would seem so.
Concerning God Matt 5:7; Luke 6:36' and James 2:13 clearly show that mercy triumphs over judgment. This is clearly directed at us in our very human situation.
I most certainly do not wish you any ill will. I do not want you to convert to my way of thinking. That is of no concern to me. However, I have offered some criticisms based on rational, logical thinking and my own personal experience. I can only conclude that your attitude is one of not really wanting to discuss the issues when they are contrary to your point of view. Perhaps you are here only to proselytize?
Shalom
Ted:-6
Once again you have stated your opinion. I presented you with some issues that you seem to not want to discuss. You have not responded to my criticisms.
One of the key ones was questioning how one can trust anyone who creates a game complete with rules but when s/he plays s/he doesn't have to follow the rules. This is simply not a trustworthy situation.
You made the comment that we don't worship the same God. Since there is only one God and not others we most definitely are worshiping the same God. What it amounts to is that your concept of God is different from mine.
Are you telling me that all Muslims are terrorists? It would seem so.
Concerning God Matt 5:7; Luke 6:36' and James 2:13 clearly show that mercy triumphs over judgment. This is clearly directed at us in our very human situation.
I most certainly do not wish you any ill will. I do not want you to convert to my way of thinking. That is of no concern to me. However, I have offered some criticisms based on rational, logical thinking and my own personal experience. I can only conclude that your attitude is one of not really wanting to discuss the issues when they are contrary to your point of view. Perhaps you are here only to proselytize?
Shalom
Ted:-6