The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:13 pm

This thread is absolutely not under any circumstances allowed to become unsavoury. There will be no rudeness, no name-calling, no disrespect and no mockery of any sort.

Do we have any Mormons on ForumGarden who'd be willing to compare and contrast The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with other branches of Christianity?

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:26 pm

I don't know much about the faith other than I have many friends who have left it as it was to controlling for them.

Conversely I also have friends who love being LDS. We have one beautiful LDS church here in San Diego that is amazing to drive by.

My Daughter lived in Sandy Utah for 2 years and as a Catholic felt very out of place. Friends were few and far between if your not of the faith.

HERE IS THE TEMPLE IN SAN DIEGO OPENED IN 1993 AT NIGHT THE LIGHTING IS AWESOME:

Pertinent Data about the Church: Location: 7474 Charmant Drive, San Diego, California, United States.

Site: 7.2 acres.

Exterior Finish: Marble chips in plaster.

Temple Design: Modern, two-tower design.

Number of Rooms: Four ordinance rooms and eight sealing.

Total Floor Area: 72,000 square feet.

Attached files

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:28 pm

That's the whitest thing ive ever seen.

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:30 pm

buttercup;745439 wrote: That's the whitest thing ive ever seen.

You've never seen my legs.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:33 pm

Snooze;745444 wrote: You've never seen my legs.

This thread is absolutely not under any circumstances allowed to become unsavoury.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:34 pm

They may be white, Snooze, but they're not unsavoury. Happy Christmas.

I had a girlfriend who became a Jehovah's Witness. When I gave her a Christmas present, she gave it back to me... nicely. They don't believe in Christmas. When she converted, she'd just lost her only child, so I guess if the JH's were offering some kind of comfort she didn't find elsewhere, good on them.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:51 pm

Carla's right about the friendships. If you're not LDS you're considered "worldly" and not of the right quality to foster friendship. I have lost a converted longtime friend for being "worldly" and for many years it damaged the relationship I had with my cousin whom I grew up with. I don't know how my friend's life turned out with LDS but my cousin, once her new family finally accepted her (it took a while because converted or not, she too was worldly) she blossomed. Whether LDS is responsible alone for that or if Cuz would have bloomed under any religion is unknown. I disagree with much of LDS teachings, especially how the men get to decide things for their wives. But I accept that she's Mormon and Cuz accepts that I am Pagan. I just wish her faith's teachings would stop coming between us a family.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:55 pm

I worked with a doctor who was a Mormon. He was a really nice guy.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:15 pm

Iâ€™m not a Mormon but I was raised amongst them and have family members who are.

I cannot agree with them about the validity of the Book of Mormon or that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I find many of their practices to be absurd and some to be harmful.

Having said thatâ€¦ I thoroughly enjoy them as a group of people. I wouldnâ€™t hesitate to live in their midst again. Their moral values (except some of the extremes) match mine closely and they are, for the most part, wonderful, loving people. I could tell a number of horror stories but for every one of them I could tell two that are fond memories.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:28 pm

There are a lot of different belief systems in the world. I guess only God in her infinite wisdom knows if they are all equally valid. I think the groups that sit on the outskirts of well defined religious systems have it tougher in some ways - Mormons are on the outskirts of Christianity but aren't really a whole separate religion in their own right, so to speak. I suppose one should not forget that Christianity was once on the outskirts of Judaism.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:56 pm

I used to work with someone who belonged to the "brethren".

She was a nice girl, very quiet, not allowed to socialise outside with anyone not of her group, wore very plain dull clothes, never cut her hair, always had her hair covered.

Never spoke about her religion unless anyone asked, I never had a conversation with her about it as i didnt know her well enough to ask.

Is that a branch of mormonry, does anyone know?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:09 pm

Most Christian denominations accept John 4:24 where it says that God is a spirit. Mormons believe he is flesh and blood and members of their church who follow the tenants of their faith can become a god.

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:20 pm

We've still not panned any gold dust - do we have any Mormons on ForumGarden?

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:21 pm

would talking to unknown people on the internet be forbidden to true mormons though?

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:22 pm

When I prod one out from under a stone we might be able to ask.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:30 pm

Here's a good site, with answers about their beliefs.

http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/bas ... -your-life

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:41 pm

lemon_and_mint;745583 wrote: would talking to unknown people on the internet be forbidden to true mormons though?

As someone that lives and works with Mormons on a daily basis, I can assure you that they're as modern and up to date as anyone else. I doubt you'd be able to pick one out of a crowd. They've got computer access the same as the rest of us, but most of them are too busy with their families and church obligations to be spending much time in forums.

They're generally well groomed, well spoken and well educated.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:44 pm

oh i dont doubt they are well groomed and educated, maybe i confuse mormons with amish - are those the ones who don't live with the modern equipment?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:57 pm

Snooze;745590 wrote: As someone that lives and works with Mormons on a daily basis, I can assure you that they're as modern and up to date as anyone else. I doubt you'd be able to pick one out of a crowd. They've got computer access the same as the rest of us, but most of them are too busy with their families and church obligations to be spending much time in forums.

They're generally well groomed, well spoken and well educated.

Excellent point. They are to be admired for their commitment to family.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:03 pm

lemon_and_mint;745592 wrote: oh i dont doubt they are well groomed and educated, maybe i confuse mormons with amish - are those the ones who don't live with the modern equipment?

Yes Lemon, the Amish forsake modern day equipment. There may be other religions that do that as well or do it to some degree but I'm not very knowledgeable on that.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:36 pm

The Mennonites go the whole length of the line from horse and buggy to Cadillacs.

Shalom

Ted:-6

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:54 pm

I have to say I have a friend who is LDS and one would never guess until you decide to sit down and talk serious religion with him. He asked me one day if I wanted to join their church (it was while I was going through some personal struggles) and I thanked him very much and said no, and that was perfectly fine with him and he never brought it up again. He and his family are lovely people and proof that everyone is entitled to believe what they wish and should not judge or be judged.

Yes me guilty of that but have since learned to open my ears and eyes and close my mouth more often.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:35 pm

spot;745584 wrote: When I prod one out from under a stone we might be able to ask.
You can ask this here Jack-Mormon anything you like spot:yh_worry

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:41 pm

Clint;745570 wrote: Most Christian denominations accept John 4:24 where it says that God is a spirit. Mormons believe he is flesh and blood and members of their church who follow the tenants of their faith can become a god.

I went to the official site of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

"

Among the most important differences with other Christian churches are those concerning the nature of God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Together, these form what is commonly referred to as the Holy Trinity in many churches and as the Godhead by Latter-day Saints. "

This is very clear:

"Latter-day Saints (LDS) believe that the simplest reading of the New Testament text produces the simplest conclusion â€” that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are separate and distinct personages, that They are one in purpose. We feel that the sheer preponderance of references in the Bible would lead an uninformed reader to the understanding that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are separate beings.

Trinity has the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost be different aspects of the same person.

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:47 pm

BTS;746554 wrote: You can ask this here Jack-Mormon anything you like spot:yh_worry
Wow. Okay, good, I'm quite excited by that, I had no idea who we might get to volunteer. I'll do my best to be polite - pull me up if I put my foot in anything - and I have no reason to think that I'll say anything to upset anyone.

As far as I know "Mormon" is a usable word, tell me if there's a better one.

Mormons rely a great deal, when persuading people to consider if the faith being offered is true, toYou can know if the things you are learning are true if you ask your Heavenly Father in prayer. He desires for you to know the truth, and you can receive an answer from Him through the Holy Ghost. As taught in the Bible, “The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, [and] temperance” (Galatians 5:22–23). These feelings from the Holy Ghost are personal revelation to you that the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is true. You will then need to choose whether you will live in harmony with the knowledge you have received.

http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/bas ... is-is-true

Do you think the response described here is unique to people praying for confirmation of the Mormon message, or is it more general across religions? Would a Muslim feel the same response to prayer, for example? Of so, is the Muslim's response also from an aspect of God?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:22 pm

Now remember I am a Jack Mormon and in NO WAY speak for any religion........I speak only on what I think I know.........That said:

spot;746559 wrote: Wow. Okay, good, I'm quite excited by that, I had no idea who we might get to volunteer. I'll do my best to be polite - pull me up if I put my foot in anything - and I have no reason to think that I'll say anything to upset anyone.

As far as I know "Mormon" is a usable word, tell me if there's a better one.

It is one of those words that has been used both in a derogotive way and and a positive way. It is accepted but to be called, LDS (Latter Day Saint) is preferred.

Mormons rely a great deal, when persuading people to consider if the faith being offered is true, toYou can know if the things you are learning are true if you ask your Heavenly Father in prayer. He desires for you to know the truth, and you can receive an answer from Him through the Holy Ghost. As taught in the Bible, â€œThe fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, [and] temperanceâ€ (Galatians 5:22â€“23). These feelings from the Holy Ghost are personal revelation to you that the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is true. You will then need to choose whether you will live in harmony with the knowledge you have received.http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/bas ... -is-trueDo you think the response described here is unique to people praying for confirmation of the Mormon message, or is it more general across religions? Would a Muslim feel the same response to prayer, for example? Of so, is the Muslim's response also from an aspect of God?

IMO I think it is pretty general across other religions too.

Do I think that the Mormon church pushes it more than most? I sure do. I think anyone can feel the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) if they want to. No matter their beliefs.

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:16 pm

That's the first puzzle dealt with - that LDS says "These feelings from the Holy Ghost are personal revelation to you that the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is true". It's an exclusivist statement - I focus on "restored" here - and it's been the primary LDS missionary evidence when they're proselytizing for as long as I can remember, and I've been visited more than once over quite a while. It sort of bothers me. But then, it's not just LDS who use that test, I'm not criticizing just the LDS position as far as the evidence of the heart's concerned. I'm sure we'd both agree that there's a response to be felt, I merely wonder at the interpretation.

Let's try a second question. LDS baptises the dead in order that they can attain salvation by subsequent teaching of faith. At the request of Jewish organizations it's agreed to not do this in the case of dead Jews. Why do you think dead Jews are treated that way by LDS? Living representatives of other faiths - again I use Muslims as my example - might find the baptism of the dead equally objectionable. LDS seems to use an opt-out standard rather than an opt-in one. Are you happy with that?

A related question is whether LDS seeks common ecumenical and social outreach with non-LDS religious organizations. To what extent does LDS try to find common ground and activity with others? Is LDS unique to the extent of rejecting all other non-LDS religious activity in the world? Is it a go-it-alone body?

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:50 am

The Mormon church rents an apartment in my building. Missionarys come and stay in it. 3 come, then they go, and 3 more come to take their place. They are right across from my door. Usually, it is young men. Last year 3 young women came and stayed, briefly. The young men have all been very good looking, and low key, and polite. Months ago when I was having computer problems, I asked if they could be of any help. One was suppossedly a computer wizard, with a lot of education. They said they could only come in and help, if my son was in the apartment. He was, and they did help me. They hang pictures of Christ on their front door. Sometimes I see them out witnessing down in our little town. They have never pressured me to listen to them. A couple of times they have asked me how my life is. I always say great, so they do not have an opening to preach to me. If I had the time, Id invite them in to see the thread, and reply. But, Im rarely home, so I cant, They would love that.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:08 pm

spot;746587 wrote: That's the first puzzle dealt with - that LDS says "These feelings from the Holy Ghost are personal revelation to you that the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is true". It's an exclusivist statement - I focus on "restored" here - and it's been the primary LDS missionary evidence when they're proselytizing for as long as I can remember, and I've been visited more than once over quite a while. It sort of bothers me. But then, it's not just LDS who use that test, I'm not criticizing just the LDS position as far as the evidence of the heart's concerned. I'm sure we'd both agree that there's a response to be felt, I merely wonder at the interpretation.

Let's try a second question. LDS baptises the dead in order that they can attain salvation by subsequent teaching of faith. At the request of Jewish organizations it's agreed to not do this in the case of dead Jews. Why do you think dead Jews are treated that way by LDS? Living representatives of other faiths - again I use Muslims as my example - might find the baptism of the dead equally objectionable. LDS seems to use an opt-out standard rather than an opt-in one. Are you happy with that?

A related question is whether LDS seeks common ecumenical and social outreach with non-LDS religious organizations. To what extent does LDS try to find common ground and activity with others? Is LDS unique to the extent of rejecting all other non-LDS religious activity in the world? Is it a go-it-alone body?

I am no scholar on these questions but I will try to answer and give sources:

The thorny issue:

if salvation is only through Christ, what happens to all the billions of people who lived and died without ever even hearing of Christ? And if we must be baptized to enter into a covenant with Christ (as Christ plainly teaches in John 3:3-5), what of those that never had a chance? For centuries, the mainstream theological answer has been that those souls are lost. Some ministers are not so crass today, but many still insist that they go to hell.

I wish to proclaim that God is just and will not send a Chinese peasant or an Indian beggar to hell simply because he or she had the misfortune of never hearing about Christ. Yet we believe that salvation is only through Christ. The resolution is this: deceased beings, dwelling as spirits and awaiting the time of resurrection and judgment, will be given the opportunity to hear and accept the message of the Gospel. Indeed, God "will [desires to] have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4) We get some insights into the work of salvation among those who have already died in 1 Peter 3:18-20, which reports that Christ, while dead, "went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient." The passage then indicates that people from the time of Noah were included among those that Christ preached to. The preaching to deceased beings is also mentioned again in 1 Peter 4:6: "For for this cause was the gospel preached to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." This suggests that there is still accountability for the acts in the flesh (our mortal existence), and that they will be judged, but they can still gain access to the grace of Christ and repent and come unto Him.

This concept is consistent with Paul's writing about the judgment in Romans 2. In verse 4, he indicates that the goodness of God leads us to repentance, helping us (in verse 5) to avoid wrath on the day of the righteous judgment of God (not arbitrary and unfair!). Verse 6 reminds us that every man will receive according to his deeds, with "glory, honour, and peace to every man that worketh good" (v. 10), "for there is no respect of persons with God." Respect of persons (partiality) is what God would have if he damned some just because they never had the chance to learn of Christ. Verses 12 through 15 continue this theme, indicating that when men are judged for their mortal lives, it will be according to what they knew of God's ways - and according to their conscience (a gift of God to all people, in my view). Verse 16 states that the Gentiles who knew not God's law "shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another."

Without getting into the theology of my particular denomination, let me simply say that I have good reason to believe that God is just, loves all his children, and will be fair in providing an opportunity for all that truly desire His righteousness to gain access to the grace of Christ, if they will accept Him and covenant with Him. Many will not accept Him, as we see in great evidence today. But God reaches out to each of His children and implores them to follow Him. Toward that end, I believe that Christ established a tremendous program of missionary work on the other side of the veil - in the spirit world - so that the Gospel message will go forth to His children of every nation and every era. (I know this sounds wild to many. There are numerous questions that arise, of course, and there are some good answers among many unknown. Happy to discuss - and to take flames as well.)

SOURCE

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:40 am

My compliments on such a savory thread.

.......... :-3

Okay, bowing out.

.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:09 pm

buttercup;745439 wrote: That's the whitest thing ive ever seen.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is strictly for whitey.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:23 pm

Nomad;752149 wrote: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is strictly for whitey.

There was a time in their history when that was true. It hasn't been the case in the past 35 years or so. They send missionairies to countries where there are few whites.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:37 pm

I was on project with a guy who had been a Mormon Missionary and was a Bishop. He kept talking religion so being the ownerâ€™s representative and not wanting to have a blow up over religion, I made a deal with him. He could tell me about his beliefs and I could tell him about mine but we couldnâ€™t point out any perceived shortcomings in the otherâ€™s beliefs.

We went through the whole project telling each other about what we believed. At the end we were both able to say we had learned some things and had some things to think about.

What a concept.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:28 pm

fuzzy butt;752175 wrote: I may have it wrong here but what's with the girl who used to get messages from god? And apparently passed it on to the congregation? or do I have the wrong religion again?

It could be the Mormons but not likely. Their Council of Twelve get the messages from God. Stories like that come from denominations of all kinds.

freethinkingthuthseeker · Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:02 pm

here is a link to the real differences between mormons and true christians:

YouTube - Mormonism in a Nutshell

daylilies · Post by **daylilies** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:04 am

Nomad;752149 wrote: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is strictly for whitey.

I am pretty sure there is more members outside the US than in if not it is pretty close last time I checked.

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:14 am

daylilies;1342011 wrote: I am pretty sure there is more members outside the US than in if not it is pretty close last time I checked.

Nomad's not noted for reliable statements of fact. What he said was true at various stages of the church's history but it's not an aspect of today's LDS. And, interestingly, LDS from the beginning had close ties and friendship with America's indigenous population.