JAB:-6
I don't expect anyone to believe exactly as I do. If one can't handle the difficulties present by the historical, archaeological and scientific research then perhaps my view of "I've made up my mind don't bother me with the facts", is quite true. Do I think I have all the answers? Not even close but anyone who does is living in a delusion. It seems to me that one's faith ought to reflect the reality around them and not the ancient myths of the past. On the other hand by reading those ancient myths one gains a great deal of wisdom even in realizing they are myths.
If such a view doesn't promote discussion and debate it is because folks don't want to engage in such discussion and debate in the first place i.e. they've made up their minds so quit learning. That is sad.
Prove me wrong.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
How do you view God?
Ted;724342 wrote: JAB:-6
I don't expect anyone to believe exactly as I do. If one can't handle the difficulties present by the historical, archaeological and scientific research then perhaps my view of "I've made up my mind don't bother me with the facts", is quite true. Do I think I have all the answers? Not even close but anyone who does is living in a delusion. It seems to me that one's faith ought to reflect the reality around them and not the ancient myths of the past. On the other hand by reading those ancient myths one gains a great deal of wisdom even in realizing they are myths.
If such a view doesn't promote discussion and debate it is because folks don't want to engage in such discussion and debate in the first place i.e. they've made up their minds so quit learning. That is sad.
Prove me wrong.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Sorry, a bit off topic, but you mentioned Father Thomas Keating in one of the threads and I can't remember which one. I went on to read some extracts of his book Open Mind, Open Heart on an internet site, and I have ordered a copy. It seems to be just what I need to read at present, so thank you, Ted :-6
I don't expect anyone to believe exactly as I do. If one can't handle the difficulties present by the historical, archaeological and scientific research then perhaps my view of "I've made up my mind don't bother me with the facts", is quite true. Do I think I have all the answers? Not even close but anyone who does is living in a delusion. It seems to me that one's faith ought to reflect the reality around them and not the ancient myths of the past. On the other hand by reading those ancient myths one gains a great deal of wisdom even in realizing they are myths.
If such a view doesn't promote discussion and debate it is because folks don't want to engage in such discussion and debate in the first place i.e. they've made up their minds so quit learning. That is sad.
Prove me wrong.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Sorry, a bit off topic, but you mentioned Father Thomas Keating in one of the threads and I can't remember which one. I went on to read some extracts of his book Open Mind, Open Heart on an internet site, and I have ordered a copy. It seems to be just what I need to read at present, so thank you, Ted :-6
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
How do you view God?
theia:-6
I can't remember the thread either. You are welcome. He is an extremely delightful man. When he was delivering a public lecture in Vancouver I felt as if, except for the hair or lack thereof, that it was Jesus himself speaking to us. He is a truly devout man with no ego. One of the finest Christians I have had the privilege of studying under.
BTW I have that book in my library.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I can't remember the thread either. You are welcome. He is an extremely delightful man. When he was delivering a public lecture in Vancouver I felt as if, except for the hair or lack thereof, that it was Jesus himself speaking to us. He is a truly devout man with no ego. One of the finest Christians I have had the privilege of studying under.
BTW I have that book in my library.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
Ted;724359 wrote: theia:-6
I can't remember the thread either. You are welcome. He is an extremely delightful man. When he was delivering a public lecture in Vancouver I felt as if, except for the hair or lack thereof, that it was Jesus himself speaking to us. He is a truly devout man with no ego. One of the finest Christians I have had the privilege of studying under.
BTW I have that book in my library.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Well, from the short extracts I read, he seemed to be talking about contemplative meditation wherein we concentrate on just one word, be it God, or another word we might choose and perhaps ultimately move beyond thought, beyond the ego? And I loved this quotation..."Every response to God, whatever it is, must begin with the full acceptance of reality as it actually is at the moment."
I can't remember the thread either. You are welcome. He is an extremely delightful man. When he was delivering a public lecture in Vancouver I felt as if, except for the hair or lack thereof, that it was Jesus himself speaking to us. He is a truly devout man with no ego. One of the finest Christians I have had the privilege of studying under.
BTW I have that book in my library.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Well, from the short extracts I read, he seemed to be talking about contemplative meditation wherein we concentrate on just one word, be it God, or another word we might choose and perhaps ultimately move beyond thought, beyond the ego? And I loved this quotation..."Every response to God, whatever it is, must begin with the full acceptance of reality as it actually is at the moment."
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
How do you view God?
theia:-6
I don't have time at the moment but will comment further on Father Keating another day.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I don't have time at the moment but will comment further on Father Keating another day.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
JAB:-6
You have absolutely no idea as to the breadth or depth of my faith. Believe as you wish. I have no problem with that. However, allow me the same courtesy. If you can present your viewpoint than I should be allowed to do the same.
My faith has led me to study at the Vancouver School of Theology. It has also taught me that if my faith is not in tune with the reality around me it is, for me, erroneous. For example the creation myths of the Bible are simply not in the least historical.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You have absolutely no idea as to the breadth or depth of my faith. Believe as you wish. I have no problem with that. However, allow me the same courtesy. If you can present your viewpoint than I should be allowed to do the same.
My faith has led me to study at the Vancouver School of Theology. It has also taught me that if my faith is not in tune with the reality around me it is, for me, erroneous. For example the creation myths of the Bible are simply not in the least historical.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
JAB:-6
Whether or not you are closed minded is not for me to know. I cannot judge your faith. That is between you and the divine.
As to what I believe that is between me and the divine. Why am I being "chided" for saying what I believe?
Shalom
Ted:-6
Whether or not you are closed minded is not for me to know. I cannot judge your faith. That is between you and the divine.
As to what I believe that is between me and the divine. Why am I being "chided" for saying what I believe?
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
I believe is what you expect out of him. Basically. I have had a few crappy things happen to nice people, and then you question it. I do not depend on God to make my life, nor do I dispute God. I am not a church going person, so I can't really depend on him because of what has happened in the past. But, I still think there is one.
How do you view God?
Jester;724413 wrote: Hey Ted,
I'm the guy that used to post as Far Rider.
I left because I just got so sick and tired of argueing with you. No matter what I posted, if your progressive mind didn't agree you tore it apart with pluralistic posts of science, archeology and history. I never found any truth or light in any post you posted, ever. I totally disagree with your philosophy. I find the expression of your faith lacking, and I see no spiritualty whatsoever, I see that your dependence is only on what the scholars say. If and when you say soemthing thats not what the scholars say, I may be back to read up. But until then all I can do is hope you find truth. Of all the people I have encountered on forums you are the one I feel the sorriest for.
Jester.
Far! I didn't realise it was you. It's really good to see you again :-6
I have my own beliefs although I've found that, over the past twenty years, I'm constantly questioning them, which makes for an uncomfortable time. Naturally, I don't agree with everything Ted posts but I find that what he writes often makes me think and question some more. His recent reference to Father Thomas Keating and my further reading of this man's book lifted me out of quite a dark place. In fact, your posts and others in these threads, can also do the same, whether or not I share the same beliefs. Okay, so the result of this is that I can feel totally lost. But these feelings of lostness are, like everything in this world, temporary and then I usually move on to feeling a little more secure in what I believe (sadly, temporarily again!).
For me, these "wanderings" seem to be a natural part of my journey in this world. I sometimes wish for more security in and from my beliefs, but this evades me and I'm finding that acceptance of the insecurity can ease the discomfort a little.
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here (more wanderings)...perhaps it is that I want to see both you and Ted continue in your debates as I think both approaches can be truly helpful to those of us who, for the most part, are just struggling along.
I'm the guy that used to post as Far Rider.
I left because I just got so sick and tired of argueing with you. No matter what I posted, if your progressive mind didn't agree you tore it apart with pluralistic posts of science, archeology and history. I never found any truth or light in any post you posted, ever. I totally disagree with your philosophy. I find the expression of your faith lacking, and I see no spiritualty whatsoever, I see that your dependence is only on what the scholars say. If and when you say soemthing thats not what the scholars say, I may be back to read up. But until then all I can do is hope you find truth. Of all the people I have encountered on forums you are the one I feel the sorriest for.
Jester.
Far! I didn't realise it was you. It's really good to see you again :-6
I have my own beliefs although I've found that, over the past twenty years, I'm constantly questioning them, which makes for an uncomfortable time. Naturally, I don't agree with everything Ted posts but I find that what he writes often makes me think and question some more. His recent reference to Father Thomas Keating and my further reading of this man's book lifted me out of quite a dark place. In fact, your posts and others in these threads, can also do the same, whether or not I share the same beliefs. Okay, so the result of this is that I can feel totally lost. But these feelings of lostness are, like everything in this world, temporary and then I usually move on to feeling a little more secure in what I believe (sadly, temporarily again!).
For me, these "wanderings" seem to be a natural part of my journey in this world. I sometimes wish for more security in and from my beliefs, but this evades me and I'm finding that acceptance of the insecurity can ease the discomfort a little.
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here (more wanderings)...perhaps it is that I want to see both you and Ted continue in your debates as I think both approaches can be truly helpful to those of us who, for the most part, are just struggling along.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
How do you view God?
I've listened to a lot of people describe what they believe about God, the afterlife, the meaning of our current life or lack thereof...
For my own choices I settled it like this: Since no one can prove or disprove anything, why should I believe anything that makes me either unhappy, feeling guilty or frightened? Without any proof, it only made sense to choose the belief that allows me to live happily.
Whatever makes that true for someone is the "right" thing for them to believe. The only time someone's belief system bothers me is when it seems to cause them trauma, fear or shame.
For my own choices I settled it like this: Since no one can prove or disprove anything, why should I believe anything that makes me either unhappy, feeling guilty or frightened? Without any proof, it only made sense to choose the belief that allows me to live happily.
Whatever makes that true for someone is the "right" thing for them to believe. The only time someone's belief system bothers me is when it seems to cause them trauma, fear or shame.
How do you view God?
Jester;724413 wrote: Hey Ted,
I'm the guy that used to post as Far Rider.
Jester.
And happy I am to see you back again.
I could not reply to your PM as your inbox is full but here's to a continuation of our many discussions past and to come :-6
I'm the guy that used to post as Far Rider.
Jester.
And happy I am to see you back again.
I could not reply to your PM as your inbox is full but here's to a continuation of our many discussions past and to come :-6
How do you view God?
jester:-6
I too am glad to see you back.
You speak of my always arguing but is that not the nature of debate and discussion? That you agree or disagree with me is of no consequence. If I make people think and question that is good enough for me. You present a position with great vehemence and I respond equally. I ask no one to believe as I do. I am not here to proselytize or preach but to present a point of view and make people think.
Your comments on my spirituality are your opinion to which you are entitled. The fact remains you have absolutely no idea concerning the depth or breadth of my spirituality.
My so called dependence on what the scholars say comes from the fact that what I have found is a group of very spiritual and intelligent people who happen to agree with a position I came to through my own reading of the scriptures and common sense. It is very interesting to me that I found people reading from the same page as myself.
The fact of the matter is that concerning God the only language we can use is metaphor. God is beyond our language and our minds. S/He is beyond our comprehension abilities. This position is supported by thousands around the world both academic and average.
The sacred scriptures are quite clear that we are to do justice and love kindness and walk humbly with our God. There is no provision for hating or despising those with whom we disagree nor is their any provision for not attempting to bring about justice and compassion for ALL people of whatever colour, creed, race or sexual orientation. This is the central message of the gospel and if we are not following it we are not following in the footsteps of Jesus.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I too am glad to see you back.
You speak of my always arguing but is that not the nature of debate and discussion? That you agree or disagree with me is of no consequence. If I make people think and question that is good enough for me. You present a position with great vehemence and I respond equally. I ask no one to believe as I do. I am not here to proselytize or preach but to present a point of view and make people think.
Your comments on my spirituality are your opinion to which you are entitled. The fact remains you have absolutely no idea concerning the depth or breadth of my spirituality.
My so called dependence on what the scholars say comes from the fact that what I have found is a group of very spiritual and intelligent people who happen to agree with a position I came to through my own reading of the scriptures and common sense. It is very interesting to me that I found people reading from the same page as myself.
The fact of the matter is that concerning God the only language we can use is metaphor. God is beyond our language and our minds. S/He is beyond our comprehension abilities. This position is supported by thousands around the world both academic and average.
The sacred scriptures are quite clear that we are to do justice and love kindness and walk humbly with our God. There is no provision for hating or despising those with whom we disagree nor is their any provision for not attempting to bring about justice and compassion for ALL people of whatever colour, creed, race or sexual orientation. This is the central message of the gospel and if we are not following it we are not following in the footsteps of Jesus.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
JAB:-6
You are wrong about one thing. My faith is not based on facts. The word faith means "trust" not belief in any particular doctrine. My faith is based on the risen Lord and the facts simply support my faith.
I trust in God without question. If I speak of God or the divine I can only use metaphor because that is all we have to speak of this aspect of life. The Bible is simply a book that attests to this faith. It is not the basis of this faith. When it becomes the basis of this faith it amounts to bibleolatry.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You are wrong about one thing. My faith is not based on facts. The word faith means "trust" not belief in any particular doctrine. My faith is based on the risen Lord and the facts simply support my faith.
I trust in God without question. If I speak of God or the divine I can only use metaphor because that is all we have to speak of this aspect of life. The Bible is simply a book that attests to this faith. It is not the basis of this faith. When it becomes the basis of this faith it amounts to bibleolatry.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
theia:-6
Father Thomas' method of meditation is of this sort: he likens it to a scuba diver sitting on the bottom of a harbour. You watch the activity come and go but you do not dwell on any of it. A thought comes into your brain and you simply let it go without any struggle. Thomas suggests a minimum of 20 min. per session and preferably twice a day. It takes time and practice but eventually leaves your mind open to the divine. He begins his meditation by saying a sacred word. I use the word "abba". He ends by very quietly saying the Lord's Prayer.
You can use a single spot to stare at or a sacred phrase as a mantra or you can also achieve the same effects by concentrating on your breathing. The latter is the easiest one of the above three.
The use of a sacred word is a symbol of inviting the divine to be part of your meditation and inviting the divine to speak to you. A quiet place is best. There you cannot be disturbed.
The great spiritual leaders of the past including Jesus, Mohammad and Buddha all practiced meditation. It is also part of Hinduism, Confucianism, Taoism etc.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Father Thomas' method of meditation is of this sort: he likens it to a scuba diver sitting on the bottom of a harbour. You watch the activity come and go but you do not dwell on any of it. A thought comes into your brain and you simply let it go without any struggle. Thomas suggests a minimum of 20 min. per session and preferably twice a day. It takes time and practice but eventually leaves your mind open to the divine. He begins his meditation by saying a sacred word. I use the word "abba". He ends by very quietly saying the Lord's Prayer.
You can use a single spot to stare at or a sacred phrase as a mantra or you can also achieve the same effects by concentrating on your breathing. The latter is the easiest one of the above three.
The use of a sacred word is a symbol of inviting the divine to be part of your meditation and inviting the divine to speak to you. A quiet place is best. There you cannot be disturbed.
The great spiritual leaders of the past including Jesus, Mohammad and Buddha all practiced meditation. It is also part of Hinduism, Confucianism, Taoism etc.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
JAB:-6
I have always maintained that if my faith does not match the reality I see around me and that includes history than my faith is erroneous. However, the facts have never contradicted my faith. My faith and I assume that your's as well are based on the experiential reality of the risen Lord.
It is the view of many that the Bible must be reinterpreted in light of our present fund of knowledge and our cultural milieu. The Bible like all sacred scriptures is a book that reflects the culture of its day and this includes the ancient beliefs of a people who did not have the resources in knowledge and understanding that we have today. None of this is to deny the divine wisdom that the ancient writings present to us.
A good example of change is the rule against eating pork. In ancient times pork was severely contaminated by parasites and could result in death if eaten. Smart thinking. Pork today is as safe as any other form of meat. This is also true of the prohibition against eating shell fish as well as the phrases concerning homosexuality. There are ancient reasons for these which modern knowledge has now mitigated. These thoughts are supported by, among others, Father Thomas Keating, The Rev. Dr. Cynthia Bourgeault, The Rt. Rev. John Spong, Marcus Borg etc. The same holds true for the creation stories etc.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I have always maintained that if my faith does not match the reality I see around me and that includes history than my faith is erroneous. However, the facts have never contradicted my faith. My faith and I assume that your's as well are based on the experiential reality of the risen Lord.
It is the view of many that the Bible must be reinterpreted in light of our present fund of knowledge and our cultural milieu. The Bible like all sacred scriptures is a book that reflects the culture of its day and this includes the ancient beliefs of a people who did not have the resources in knowledge and understanding that we have today. None of this is to deny the divine wisdom that the ancient writings present to us.
A good example of change is the rule against eating pork. In ancient times pork was severely contaminated by parasites and could result in death if eaten. Smart thinking. Pork today is as safe as any other form of meat. This is also true of the prohibition against eating shell fish as well as the phrases concerning homosexuality. There are ancient reasons for these which modern knowledge has now mitigated. These thoughts are supported by, among others, Father Thomas Keating, The Rev. Dr. Cynthia Bourgeault, The Rt. Rev. John Spong, Marcus Borg etc. The same holds true for the creation stories etc.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
JAB:-6
I should add that I have no problem if one wishes to remain a literalist. That is a very personal thing. However, I've seen and know people who were turned off of the Christian faith because they were being asked to believe what they considered absurdities.
With this in mind I present my views that they might see there are other viewpoints that may make them more predisposed to consider the Christian faith or even the one into which they were born whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc. The basic tenets behind all of the world's great faiths are justice and compassion. This is what is demanded of all folks even in the Bible Micah 6:8, Matt 22, Matt. 25.
We need thinking people in the world who aim at justice and compassion.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I should add that I have no problem if one wishes to remain a literalist. That is a very personal thing. However, I've seen and know people who were turned off of the Christian faith because they were being asked to believe what they considered absurdities.
With this in mind I present my views that they might see there are other viewpoints that may make them more predisposed to consider the Christian faith or even the one into which they were born whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc. The basic tenets behind all of the world's great faiths are justice and compassion. This is what is demanded of all folks even in the Bible Micah 6:8, Matt 22, Matt. 25.
We need thinking people in the world who aim at justice and compassion.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
Far!
My Oh My :-4
My Oh My :-4
How do you view God?
JAB:-6
I think you are on track when you say we are being revealed something new each time we read it. I don't think this is anything different than what I've said. It certainly is in the spirit of Jesus comments before he left the scene that the spirit of truth would reveal to us that which we are ready to receive. This is the reinterpretation. As time goes on we learn far more and our ability to think, hopefully gets better.
The absurdities that I see are not from a desire to reinvent the purpose but the result of our ever increasing fund of knowledge. We know the creation stories are myths. To be asked to believe them literally is to ask me to believe an absurdity. It would seem that the big bang and evolution approach the truth if not the truth itself. It was an attempt to explain the then inexplicable, unknowable. That is not to deny that God had a hand in it, if one so believes.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I think you are on track when you say we are being revealed something new each time we read it. I don't think this is anything different than what I've said. It certainly is in the spirit of Jesus comments before he left the scene that the spirit of truth would reveal to us that which we are ready to receive. This is the reinterpretation. As time goes on we learn far more and our ability to think, hopefully gets better.
The absurdities that I see are not from a desire to reinvent the purpose but the result of our ever increasing fund of knowledge. We know the creation stories are myths. To be asked to believe them literally is to ask me to believe an absurdity. It would seem that the big bang and evolution approach the truth if not the truth itself. It was an attempt to explain the then inexplicable, unknowable. That is not to deny that God had a hand in it, if one so believes.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
I see God as the benevolent force behind all of creation. Any other words I would use would simply be metaphor.
To the Buddhist and many Christian scholars God or the divine is described as "nothing" meaning that what we call God is no thing that we can grasp or understand or describe. They all accept the reality of the divine but wisely make no attempt to go any further.
Shalom
Ted:-6
To the Buddhist and many Christian scholars God or the divine is described as "nothing" meaning that what we call God is no thing that we can grasp or understand or describe. They all accept the reality of the divine but wisely make no attempt to go any further.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
jimbo;692592 wrote: i totaly agree with me too ,there is no god full stop as i see it 
apart from ted
no one has ever made the slightest bit of sense on the matter as i can see it
jimbo:
So EVERYTHING is just one big ol ACCIDENT eh?
Accident:
#1) no 2 people have the same fingerprints, IE snowflakes etc....etc..,..
#2) no 2 people have the same DNA......etc...... (ever think why? if so explain your beliefs in these phenomenons {OOOPS... accidents})
#3) the earths polar axis's rotation creating magnetism and keeping earth from falling into space not to mention keeping us grounded on earth (gravity).... What a accident that was huh?
#3) the moon and it's effect on the whole of earth... I think you understand that?
#4) life and the creation of it in ALL forms... must be the Biggest accident of all I would suppose you might think?
All physics laws are just a bunch of accidents you would suppose too?
I could go on and on but won't as there is no god and we live in a world of accidents with NO control by a higher being whatsoever.....
Amen
apart from ted
no one has ever made the slightest bit of sense on the matter as i can see it
jimbo:
So EVERYTHING is just one big ol ACCIDENT eh?
Accident:
#1) no 2 people have the same fingerprints, IE snowflakes etc....etc..,..
#2) no 2 people have the same DNA......etc...... (ever think why? if so explain your beliefs in these phenomenons {OOOPS... accidents})
#3) the earths polar axis's rotation creating magnetism and keeping earth from falling into space not to mention keeping us grounded on earth (gravity).... What a accident that was huh?
#3) the moon and it's effect on the whole of earth... I think you understand that?
#4) life and the creation of it in ALL forms... must be the Biggest accident of all I would suppose you might think?
All physics laws are just a bunch of accidents you would suppose too?
I could go on and on but won't as there is no god and we live in a world of accidents with NO control by a higher being whatsoever.....
Amen
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
How do you view God?
BTS:-6
Some good points. Several scientists such as F. Collinson, A. McGrath, P. Davis and even S. Hawking are in agreement that should one of the thousands of factors that led to life be out by a minutiae we would not be here on earth. There are thousands of these factors. Some accident! LOL
The probability of such an "accident" would be infinitely staggering and infinitely impossible.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Some good points. Several scientists such as F. Collinson, A. McGrath, P. Davis and even S. Hawking are in agreement that should one of the thousands of factors that led to life be out by a minutiae we would not be here on earth. There are thousands of these factors. Some accident! LOL
The probability of such an "accident" would be infinitely staggering and infinitely impossible.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
I agree with Joe....this thread does ask a good question and I'm guessing it will provoke hundreds of different answers.
I must admit that I have a conflict in my beliefs.
Scientific fact does not seem to back up 'the creation' so as I've got older I've struggled with the strength of my belief, however, when I go into a church or cathedral (the house of God if you like) I get a strong feeling that I am close to God and feel very emotional. Can't explain it.... In times of trouble I ask God for help and support and in times of joy i thank God for his blessings so I guess my belief is stronger than I thought before i got involved in this thread......
I started pracitising Buddhism a couple of years ago.....in terms of 'living' by certain rules the beliefs are similar...the same with other religions and beliefs. Buddhism DOES advocate self responsibility....no blame situations..... which I like, but I have to admit that I do have conflicts in my head......I am being disloyal to God....is he 'up there' frowning down on me ?
When I die I have asked for a Christian burial....oh goodness...what a mess !
I must admit that I have a conflict in my beliefs.
Scientific fact does not seem to back up 'the creation' so as I've got older I've struggled with the strength of my belief, however, when I go into a church or cathedral (the house of God if you like) I get a strong feeling that I am close to God and feel very emotional. Can't explain it.... In times of trouble I ask God for help and support and in times of joy i thank God for his blessings so I guess my belief is stronger than I thought before i got involved in this thread......
I started pracitising Buddhism a couple of years ago.....in terms of 'living' by certain rules the beliefs are similar...the same with other religions and beliefs. Buddhism DOES advocate self responsibility....no blame situations..... which I like, but I have to admit that I do have conflicts in my head......I am being disloyal to God....is he 'up there' frowning down on me ?
When I die I have asked for a Christian burial....oh goodness...what a mess !
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
How do you view God?
I went to church today, the first Sunday that I have been in a long time (3 years), it felt wonderful, the peace and strength that it gave me is indescribable. I felt a warm burning inside that made me feel that the Holy Spirit is in me 
I just feel thankful that The Lord feels that I am worthy of his love :-4
Sorry still not answered the question:o
I just feel thankful that The Lord feels that I am worthy of his love :-4 Sorry still not answered the question:o
I am nobody..nobody is perfect...therefore I must be Perfect!
How do you view God?
Jester;725625 wrote: You're forgiven!
Both for not answering the question and in explaination of why you're worthy of God's love!:)
Thanks Far, I am so pleased to see you back home:-6
Both for not answering the question and in explaination of why you're worthy of God's love!:)
Thanks Far, I am so pleased to see you back home
:-6I am nobody..nobody is perfect...therefore I must be Perfect!
How do you view God?
I just returned from visiting family so I didn’t get to respond to Ted’s question before the thread moved on so please excuse me.
Ted,
I stopped posting because I got tired of the labels, the high mindedness and assumptions on your part. I don’t mind being called an uninformed oaf who has fallen behind the times when it comes from a teenaged child. When it is implied by an adult stranger I don’t have to continually expose myself to it and I chose not to.
I also grew weary of your lack of consistency and pandering to those who totally oppose Christianity and the doctrines of the church you claim alliance with. You couldn’t discuss anything, all you wanted to do was argue seemingly taking any position that would oppose those you have labeled as “Fundamentalists”.
From Anglicans On Line:
“The beliefs of Anglicans can be considered quite diverse. The official standard is the Book of Common Prayer but some parts of that book are more clearly doctrinal than others. The Catechism of the Episcopal Church in the USA summarizes the faith in question-and-answer format.
The ecumenical creeds, both Nicene and Apostles, are used by the Anglican Communion in its worship day by day and week by week. They are ancient and universal statements of Christian faith. In addition, many Anglican churches follow ancient tradition and include the Athanasian Creed among their statements of faith.”
Apostles Creed:
I BELIEVE in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
Your church says God is the “Father” not “S/he” or "The Divine".
Your church says Jesus is the "Only Begotten Son".
Your church says Jesus was born of a virgin.
Your church says Jesus rose on the third day.
Your church says Jesus will come again to judge.
When those you call “fundamentalists” say things similar to what your church states it believes you are all over them with accusations of faith over facts.
drum posted:
Re: Non Christians Apply Here
________________________________________Agnostic
Ted replied:
________________________________________
drum
Absolutely.
Shalom
Ted
You say you are and Agnostic, a Christian Pluralist and and Anglican which shares the Apostles Creed with most "fundamentalists". Which is it? Maybe it doesn't matter...maybe you just want to argue with those you label "fundamentalists" to make you feel better.
You say we don't know what you believe. I can assure you that you don't know what I believe and the authority to label me is way beyond any position you hold or will ever qualify to hold.
Ted,
I stopped posting because I got tired of the labels, the high mindedness and assumptions on your part. I don’t mind being called an uninformed oaf who has fallen behind the times when it comes from a teenaged child. When it is implied by an adult stranger I don’t have to continually expose myself to it and I chose not to.
I also grew weary of your lack of consistency and pandering to those who totally oppose Christianity and the doctrines of the church you claim alliance with. You couldn’t discuss anything, all you wanted to do was argue seemingly taking any position that would oppose those you have labeled as “Fundamentalists”.
From Anglicans On Line:
“The beliefs of Anglicans can be considered quite diverse. The official standard is the Book of Common Prayer but some parts of that book are more clearly doctrinal than others. The Catechism of the Episcopal Church in the USA summarizes the faith in question-and-answer format.
The ecumenical creeds, both Nicene and Apostles, are used by the Anglican Communion in its worship day by day and week by week. They are ancient and universal statements of Christian faith. In addition, many Anglican churches follow ancient tradition and include the Athanasian Creed among their statements of faith.”
Apostles Creed:
I BELIEVE in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
Your church says God is the “Father” not “S/he” or "The Divine".
Your church says Jesus is the "Only Begotten Son".
Your church says Jesus was born of a virgin.
Your church says Jesus rose on the third day.
Your church says Jesus will come again to judge.
When those you call “fundamentalists” say things similar to what your church states it believes you are all over them with accusations of faith over facts.
drum posted:
Re: Non Christians Apply Here
________________________________________Agnostic
Ted replied:
________________________________________
drum
Absolutely.
Shalom
Ted
You say you are and Agnostic, a Christian Pluralist and and Anglican which shares the Apostles Creed with most "fundamentalists". Which is it? Maybe it doesn't matter...maybe you just want to argue with those you label "fundamentalists" to make you feel better.
You say we don't know what you believe. I can assure you that you don't know what I believe and the authority to label me is way beyond any position you hold or will ever qualify to hold.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
double helix
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:32 pm
How do you view God?
Viewing God objectively one would have to ask, why would he desire, need, or ask for or want a relationship, with mankind?
After all, looking out on the stars at night, and knowing there are unnumbered galaxies out there filled with unimaginable numbers of planets, and that purportedly "God" created them all, why should he care or even be aware of us?
If you reverse your view, as in looking through the wrong end of a telescope, mankind could be revered as God by and number of bacterium on our own planet.
We are, all of life, all of the galaxy, organisms with definable beginnings and final endings. Long after our sun has become a red dwarf you, me, our solar system, will be a non-issue.
So, if God was invented by mankind to explain and alleviate the suffering of death why did God invent man?
After all, looking out on the stars at night, and knowing there are unnumbered galaxies out there filled with unimaginable numbers of planets, and that purportedly "God" created them all, why should he care or even be aware of us?
If you reverse your view, as in looking through the wrong end of a telescope, mankind could be revered as God by and number of bacterium on our own planet.
We are, all of life, all of the galaxy, organisms with definable beginnings and final endings. Long after our sun has become a red dwarf you, me, our solar system, will be a non-issue.
So, if God was invented by mankind to explain and alleviate the suffering of death why did God invent man?
-
double helix
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:32 pm
How do you view God?
I think believing in God has become one of those faith and trust exercises. Close your eyes and let yourself fall backwards TRUSTING with all your faith and love that God will catch you.
Do you know the statistics on that? How many people sliding through an intersection closed there eyes believing with all their faith in God that he loved them so much he would save them? How many lived or died?
What does Church provide for you? Strangers, gathered together with open minds and hearts, trusting and believing. All those good vibes going round the room has got to have effect. Throw in some nice songs, a good sermon, meet and great with the congregation after, and you have a real nice communal experience. One that can make even the hardened loner feel all fuzzy inside.
Thats my two cents, and I'm sticking to it!:D
Do you know the statistics on that? How many people sliding through an intersection closed there eyes believing with all their faith in God that he loved them so much he would save them? How many lived or died?
What does Church provide for you? Strangers, gathered together with open minds and hearts, trusting and believing. All those good vibes going round the room has got to have effect. Throw in some nice songs, a good sermon, meet and great with the congregation after, and you have a real nice communal experience. One that can make even the hardened loner feel all fuzzy inside.
Thats my two cents, and I'm sticking to it!:D
How do you view God?
Jester;725717 wrote: Dad: Son we need to cut that tree down, it's diseased and has a dead top.
Son: Ok Dad, can I fall it? Which direction?
Dad: Which direction does it lean son?
Son: To the right.
Dad: Son, come over here and stand by me. Now, (with his hand loosly around his sons neck) which way does it lean?
Son: Oh to the left then dad?
Dad: No Son, it leans East. It only leans left if we have the same outlook.
Perspective, sees the same thing but not always from the same view, it doesnt always see it clear enough for universal communication. There are some things in this world that need a standard before you can understand them. A correct view of God is one of them.
What is the correct view of God?
Son: Ok Dad, can I fall it? Which direction?
Dad: Which direction does it lean son?
Son: To the right.
Dad: Son, come over here and stand by me. Now, (with his hand loosly around his sons neck) which way does it lean?
Son: Oh to the left then dad?
Dad: No Son, it leans East. It only leans left if we have the same outlook.
Perspective, sees the same thing but not always from the same view, it doesnt always see it clear enough for universal communication. There are some things in this world that need a standard before you can understand them. A correct view of God is one of them.
What is the correct view of God?
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
How do you view God?
Clint:-6
Perhaps you could show me where I've been high minded or label people. Because I present another point of view on any issue does not make me high minded.
Show me where I have been inconsistent.
Show me where I've claimed to be agnostic.
I don't know where your problem is with the creeds. I can and do say them with deep faith. I just don't take them literally.
As far as my comments go the more literalist Christians come on with a high degree of vehemence and the attitude that they have all the right answers. I respond with the same vehemence. I have openly and very clearly said that I do not have all the answers or even very many. I realize that no one here on earth has a hot line up to God. Anyone who thinks they have are living in a delusion.
You say I don't want debate or discussion. I haven't received any yet from many probably because they are two interested in defending their position instead of debating it.
As to what you personally believe; I know some of it but certainly not all. I cannot label you as an individual. Only God can do that. However, you present a fundamentalist view. How do I know? I know because that is how I was raised and ultimately rejected it.
Now I would appreciate you showing me where I have committed the assertions that you have made ie. high minded (no more so than the fundamentalists). inconsistent and agnostic.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Perhaps you could show me where I've been high minded or label people. Because I present another point of view on any issue does not make me high minded.
Show me where I have been inconsistent.
Show me where I've claimed to be agnostic.
I don't know where your problem is with the creeds. I can and do say them with deep faith. I just don't take them literally.
As far as my comments go the more literalist Christians come on with a high degree of vehemence and the attitude that they have all the right answers. I respond with the same vehemence. I have openly and very clearly said that I do not have all the answers or even very many. I realize that no one here on earth has a hot line up to God. Anyone who thinks they have are living in a delusion.
You say I don't want debate or discussion. I haven't received any yet from many probably because they are two interested in defending their position instead of debating it.
As to what you personally believe; I know some of it but certainly not all. I cannot label you as an individual. Only God can do that. However, you present a fundamentalist view. How do I know? I know because that is how I was raised and ultimately rejected it.
Now I would appreciate you showing me where I have committed the assertions that you have made ie. high minded (no more so than the fundamentalists). inconsistent and agnostic.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
theia:-6
I can't tell you the best view of God as no human is so privileged. However, the Biblical God seems to have a problem: artist, warrior, vengeful, encourager of war crimes, murderer. This is in the OT. In the New Testament we see a God who has said that the top commandment is love.
I did forget that Micah 6:8 says that all God requires of us is to "do justice, love kindness and walk humbly with God.
If you accep the whole Biblical expression of God you have a God with a multiple personality problem.
God for justice and compassion. That fits the life and teachings of Jesus in whom we see manifested the divine.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I can't tell you the best view of God as no human is so privileged. However, the Biblical God seems to have a problem: artist, warrior, vengeful, encourager of war crimes, murderer. This is in the OT. In the New Testament we see a God who has said that the top commandment is love.
I did forget that Micah 6:8 says that all God requires of us is to "do justice, love kindness and walk humbly with God.
If you accep the whole Biblical expression of God you have a God with a multiple personality problem.
God for justice and compassion. That fits the life and teachings of Jesus in whom we see manifested the divine.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
Clint:-6
"The beliefs of the Anglicans can be considered quite diverse." An excellent comment that should answer your question. I exist within the Anglican communion and find that my thoughts and beliefs are not only accepted but presented by many of the priests. In fact 2 Sundays ago we had a sermon on the metaphorical meaning of the birth stories.
Yes, Jesus was a real living human being. He was born to Mary and perhaps Joseph was his father. The remainder of the story; the angel choirs, three wise men and the star are all metaphorical.
Shalom
Ted:-6
"The beliefs of the Anglicans can be considered quite diverse." An excellent comment that should answer your question. I exist within the Anglican communion and find that my thoughts and beliefs are not only accepted but presented by many of the priests. In fact 2 Sundays ago we had a sermon on the metaphorical meaning of the birth stories.
Yes, Jesus was a real living human being. He was born to Mary and perhaps Joseph was his father. The remainder of the story; the angel choirs, three wise men and the star are all metaphorical.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
Clint:-6
In thinking about being high minded I direct your attention to Jester's post #37 on "Tips on Reading the Bible". I need say no more. No, I didn't take offense. That is Jester or Far whom I respect in spite of his disagreements.
In the same way I do not take offense at what you post.
You are both good and sincere people. The fact that I disagree with both of you on many issues does not change who you are or my respect.
Shalom
Ted:-6
In thinking about being high minded I direct your attention to Jester's post #37 on "Tips on Reading the Bible". I need say no more. No, I didn't take offense. That is Jester or Far whom I respect in spite of his disagreements.
In the same way I do not take offense at what you post.
You are both good and sincere people. The fact that I disagree with both of you on many issues does not change who you are or my respect.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
Ted;727004 wrote: Clint:-6
Perhaps you could show me where I've been high minded or label people. Because I present another point of view on any issue does not make me high minded.
Show me where I have been inconsistent.
Show me where I've claimed to be agnostic.
I don't know where your problem is with the creeds. I can and do say them with deep faith. I just don't take them literally.
As far as my comments go the more literalist Christians come on with a high degree of vehemence and the attitude that they have all the right answers. I respond with the same vehemence. I have openly and very clearly said that I do not have all the answers or even very many. I realize that no one here on earth has a hot line up to God. Anyone who thinks they have are living in a delusion.
You say I don't want debate or discussion. I haven't received any yet from many probably because they are two interested in defending their position instead of debating it.
As to what you personally believe; I know some of it but certainly not all. I cannot label you as an individual. Only God can do that. However, you present a fundamentalist view. How do I know? I know because that is how I was raised and ultimately rejected it.
Now I would appreciate you showing me where I have committed the assertions that you have made ie. high minded (no more so than the fundamentalists). inconsistent and agnostic.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I didn't say anything against creeds. I've said the Apostle's Creed no less than a thousand times and the Nicine Creed at least a thousand. My question to you is, why do you say them when you don't believe them? Words have meaning.
I observe you observing others through a filter created in a past that has conditioned you to see anyone who says certain things that sound fundamental as having a high degree of vehemence. You seem to be on a mission to undo those you filter as "fundamintalists".
Your presentation of another point of view comes across as lecturing. It doesn't come across as, "this is the way I view it" or, "this could be the case"...it comes across as "this is the way it is and if you don't accept it you need to read the books I read so you won't be so stupid".
In response to your question about knowing you are high minded or agnostic... let's just say I used to be a high minded agnostic and rejected it.
Ted, I don't know it all either. It seems the more I learn the less I know.
Perhaps you could show me where I've been high minded or label people. Because I present another point of view on any issue does not make me high minded.
Show me where I have been inconsistent.
Show me where I've claimed to be agnostic.
I don't know where your problem is with the creeds. I can and do say them with deep faith. I just don't take them literally.
As far as my comments go the more literalist Christians come on with a high degree of vehemence and the attitude that they have all the right answers. I respond with the same vehemence. I have openly and very clearly said that I do not have all the answers or even very many. I realize that no one here on earth has a hot line up to God. Anyone who thinks they have are living in a delusion.
You say I don't want debate or discussion. I haven't received any yet from many probably because they are two interested in defending their position instead of debating it.
As to what you personally believe; I know some of it but certainly not all. I cannot label you as an individual. Only God can do that. However, you present a fundamentalist view. How do I know? I know because that is how I was raised and ultimately rejected it.
Now I would appreciate you showing me where I have committed the assertions that you have made ie. high minded (no more so than the fundamentalists). inconsistent and agnostic.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I didn't say anything against creeds. I've said the Apostle's Creed no less than a thousand times and the Nicine Creed at least a thousand. My question to you is, why do you say them when you don't believe them? Words have meaning.
I observe you observing others through a filter created in a past that has conditioned you to see anyone who says certain things that sound fundamental as having a high degree of vehemence. You seem to be on a mission to undo those you filter as "fundamintalists".
Your presentation of another point of view comes across as lecturing. It doesn't come across as, "this is the way I view it" or, "this could be the case"...it comes across as "this is the way it is and if you don't accept it you need to read the books I read so you won't be so stupid".
In response to your question about knowing you are high minded or agnostic... let's just say I used to be a high minded agnostic and rejected it.
Ted, I don't know it all either. It seems the more I learn the less I know.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
How do you view God?
Clint:-6
Your last line, me too.
I do believe the creeds. I have no problem with them. That being said one has to keep in mind that I accept that truths can be presented in a metaphorical or midrashic manner.
That I may be of a mind that the birth stories are for the most part metaphorical in no way destroys the truths presented therein.
My presentation is no different than jester's. Read #37 in "Tips on Reading the Bible". It says to me that because I won't change my point of view to that of Jester's he is wasting his time. In other words I (jester) have the right answer: why don't you listen to me and smarten up.
I was raised in a fundamentalist/literalist church. I've been there and done that. I seen the picking and choosing that goes on, their denials notwithstanding. I admit to picking and choosing but guided by the Holy Spirit and common sense i.e.Adam and Eve a reality? No pure myth. A God who encourages war crimes as per Num. 31. No a later addition by someone trying to justify evil behaviour.
All I have ever asked was that people allow me the same courtesy of presenting my point of view, supported by many, and think about it. If they don't like it or agree with it that is not my problem. It is of little concern to me. That they think is important. As I have said many times I've seen dozens turned away from the Christian faith and for that matter any faith because they could not accept what they were told to believe. They often see the inconsistencies within the Bible.
The emerging Christian paradigm shows they no longer have to believe in what they see as the absurd or that the inconsistencies are of no consequence. Thus folks are beginning to rethink their rejection of faith.
A study of the original meaning (biblical) of the word "faith" shows that it was never intended to mean right or correct belief but trust in. This changes a great deal.
The Bible among other things is a very culturally oriented book and needs to be reinterpreted in light of our modern culture.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Your last line, me too.
I do believe the creeds. I have no problem with them. That being said one has to keep in mind that I accept that truths can be presented in a metaphorical or midrashic manner.
That I may be of a mind that the birth stories are for the most part metaphorical in no way destroys the truths presented therein.
My presentation is no different than jester's. Read #37 in "Tips on Reading the Bible". It says to me that because I won't change my point of view to that of Jester's he is wasting his time. In other words I (jester) have the right answer: why don't you listen to me and smarten up.
I was raised in a fundamentalist/literalist church. I've been there and done that. I seen the picking and choosing that goes on, their denials notwithstanding. I admit to picking and choosing but guided by the Holy Spirit and common sense i.e.Adam and Eve a reality? No pure myth. A God who encourages war crimes as per Num. 31. No a later addition by someone trying to justify evil behaviour.
All I have ever asked was that people allow me the same courtesy of presenting my point of view, supported by many, and think about it. If they don't like it or agree with it that is not my problem. It is of little concern to me. That they think is important. As I have said many times I've seen dozens turned away from the Christian faith and for that matter any faith because they could not accept what they were told to believe. They often see the inconsistencies within the Bible.
The emerging Christian paradigm shows they no longer have to believe in what they see as the absurd or that the inconsistencies are of no consequence. Thus folks are beginning to rethink their rejection of faith.
A study of the original meaning (biblical) of the word "faith" shows that it was never intended to mean right or correct belief but trust in. This changes a great deal.
The Bible among other things is a very culturally oriented book and needs to be reinterpreted in light of our modern culture.
Shalom
Ted:-6
How do you view God?
Ted;727060 wrote: Clint:-6
Your last line, me too.
I do believe the creeds. I have no problem with them. That being said one has to keep in mind that I accept that truths can be presented in a metaphorical or midrashic manner.
That I may be of a mind that the birth stories are for the most part metaphorical in no way destroys the truths presented therein.
My presentation is no different than jester's. Read #37 in "Tips on Reading the Bible". It says to me that because I won't change my point of view to that of Jester's he is wasting his time. In other words I (jester) have the right answer: why don't you listen to me and smarten up.
I was raised in a fundamentalist/literalist church. I've been there and done that. I seen the picking and choosing that goes on, their denials notwithstanding. I admit to picking and choosing but guided by the Holy Spirit and common sense i.e.Adam and Eve a reality? No pure myth. A God who encourages war crimes as per Num. 31. No a later addition by someone trying to justify evil behaviour.
All I have ever asked was that people allow me the same courtesy of presenting my point of view, supported by many, and think about it. If they don't like it or agree with it that is not my problem. It is of little concern to me. That they think is important. As I have said many times I've seen dozens turned away from the Christian faith and for that matter any faith because they could not accept what they were told to believe. They often see the inconsistencies within the Bible.
The emerging Christian paradigm shows they no longer have to believe in what they see as the absurd or that the inconsistencies are of no consequence. Thus folks are beginning to rethink their rejection of faith.
A study of the original meaning (biblical) of the word "faith" shows that it was never intended to mean right or correct belief but trust in. This changes a great deal.
The Bible among other things is a very culturally oriented book and needs to be reinterpreted in light of our modern culture.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Interesting...I was raised in a liturgical high church. I've been there and done that.
What I have learned is that some of them are twisted to the point of being anti-Christian. On the other hand, I've seen conservative congregations that are so caught up in being exactly right they miss the whole point and are no better off than if they opposed Christ. I remember a Conservative Baptist congregation praying for someone who was moving away because they would never find another congregation that had the truth. That isn't to say all Conservative Baptist congregations are that way, it to say you can't accurately point a finger.
Having said that, the group that is most deplorable to me is the group that makes their religion one of pointing out the faults of the others.
The best way to promote a paradigm is to elevate it as an emerging one. "emerging paradigm" has a real nice ring to it too.
Your last line, me too.
I do believe the creeds. I have no problem with them. That being said one has to keep in mind that I accept that truths can be presented in a metaphorical or midrashic manner.
That I may be of a mind that the birth stories are for the most part metaphorical in no way destroys the truths presented therein.
My presentation is no different than jester's. Read #37 in "Tips on Reading the Bible". It says to me that because I won't change my point of view to that of Jester's he is wasting his time. In other words I (jester) have the right answer: why don't you listen to me and smarten up.
I was raised in a fundamentalist/literalist church. I've been there and done that. I seen the picking and choosing that goes on, their denials notwithstanding. I admit to picking and choosing but guided by the Holy Spirit and common sense i.e.Adam and Eve a reality? No pure myth. A God who encourages war crimes as per Num. 31. No a later addition by someone trying to justify evil behaviour.
All I have ever asked was that people allow me the same courtesy of presenting my point of view, supported by many, and think about it. If they don't like it or agree with it that is not my problem. It is of little concern to me. That they think is important. As I have said many times I've seen dozens turned away from the Christian faith and for that matter any faith because they could not accept what they were told to believe. They often see the inconsistencies within the Bible.
The emerging Christian paradigm shows they no longer have to believe in what they see as the absurd or that the inconsistencies are of no consequence. Thus folks are beginning to rethink their rejection of faith.
A study of the original meaning (biblical) of the word "faith" shows that it was never intended to mean right or correct belief but trust in. This changes a great deal.
The Bible among other things is a very culturally oriented book and needs to be reinterpreted in light of our modern culture.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Interesting...I was raised in a liturgical high church. I've been there and done that.
What I have learned is that some of them are twisted to the point of being anti-Christian. On the other hand, I've seen conservative congregations that are so caught up in being exactly right they miss the whole point and are no better off than if they opposed Christ. I remember a Conservative Baptist congregation praying for someone who was moving away because they would never find another congregation that had the truth. That isn't to say all Conservative Baptist congregations are that way, it to say you can't accurately point a finger.
Having said that, the group that is most deplorable to me is the group that makes their religion one of pointing out the faults of the others.
The best way to promote a paradigm is to elevate it as an emerging one. "emerging paradigm" has a real nice ring to it too.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.