zinkyusa wrote: [QUOTE=naty2005]
No I don't think that he was. He was a man who lived some 2000 odd years ago and had a very special message. People were not ready to hear his message and killed him. Other people took his message and changed it to suit their own purposes. Christ is the son of God, all of us together. We share a common function of finding our way home to a oneness we made the choice to leave a long long time ago. Jesus was the first one to complete his function and demonstrated the death is not real. This is the true message of the crucifixtion. He can safely be called on as teacher or older brother to help us find our way home, but there are many other teachers as well and many roads to the top of the mountain.Read the rest before you post. Gods word is true and trust worthy.
The rapture
The rapture
naty2005 wrote: [QUOTE=zinkyusa]Read the rest before you post. Gods word is true and trust worthy.
Read the rest of what?
Read the rest of what?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
The rapture
zinkyusa wrote: [quote=naty2005]
but there are many other teachers as well and many roads to the top of the mountain.
That was my point too, Zinky.
but there are many other teachers as well and many roads to the top of the mountain.
That was my point too, Zinky.
The rapture
The Bible was never meant to be taken literally. The literal interpretation leads to all kinds of absurd beliefs, fear, terror and judgments. This was not the intention of Jesus during his ministry.
The Bible is a very human word written by man in his response to his experiences of the divine. The Bible is not, in and of itself, the word of God. The "Word of God" belongs to only one, the person, Jesus of Nazareth. It does not belong to a book. In fact falling into that trap simply leads to idolatry. One then begins to worship the Bible and that is wrong.
Jesus himself was an eastern Mediterranean Jewish peasant born to one called Mary and perhaps his father was Joseph. He was in all likelihood born in an upper room in Nazareth and not in Bethlehem. I can explain this if anyone would like to read it. He did enjoy a special relationship with God. He was a teacher, a spirit person, a healer, and exocist, a miracle worker etc. It was and is in this man that we see manifested the true nature of God. However, we must learn to distinguish between the historical Jesus and the Christ of faith.
As for the rapture, it is not a Biblical concept but a humanly created one done in error.
If one does not understand the history, the culture, the conceptualization abilities, the belief systems, the thought processes, the fund of knowledge etc. of the writers it is difficult to determine or discern what the writers meant by what they wrote. If one does not understand the issue of midrash one is led into error in studying the sacred scriptures.
As far as those of other faiths go, I am a Christian pluralist and could also explain that. "All who does what is right and loves God are acceptable to Him." Acts 10.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible is a very human word written by man in his response to his experiences of the divine. The Bible is not, in and of itself, the word of God. The "Word of God" belongs to only one, the person, Jesus of Nazareth. It does not belong to a book. In fact falling into that trap simply leads to idolatry. One then begins to worship the Bible and that is wrong.
Jesus himself was an eastern Mediterranean Jewish peasant born to one called Mary and perhaps his father was Joseph. He was in all likelihood born in an upper room in Nazareth and not in Bethlehem. I can explain this if anyone would like to read it. He did enjoy a special relationship with God. He was a teacher, a spirit person, a healer, and exocist, a miracle worker etc. It was and is in this man that we see manifested the true nature of God. However, we must learn to distinguish between the historical Jesus and the Christ of faith.
As for the rapture, it is not a Biblical concept but a humanly created one done in error.
If one does not understand the history, the culture, the conceptualization abilities, the belief systems, the thought processes, the fund of knowledge etc. of the writers it is difficult to determine or discern what the writers meant by what they wrote. If one does not understand the issue of midrash one is led into error in studying the sacred scriptures.
As far as those of other faiths go, I am a Christian pluralist and could also explain that. "All who does what is right and loves God are acceptable to Him." Acts 10.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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RedGlitter
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I really respect your post, Ted. It is sensible, compassionate and respectful of everyone.
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anastrophe
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i think shakespeare said it best - 'the devil can cite scripture for his purpose'.
i mistrust anyone who cites scripture ad nauseum. God isn't found in a book or in a church, God is found in the heart.
i mistrust anyone who cites scripture ad nauseum. God isn't found in a book or in a church, God is found in the heart.
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RedGlitter
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anastrophe wrote: i think shakespeare said it best - 'the devil can cite scripture for his purpose'.
i mistrust anyone who cites scripture ad nauseum. God isn't found in a book or in a church, God is found in the heart.
Yep. What some of us have been trying to say. Well said, Anastrophe.
Please let me say I don't think less of anyone who subscribes to the bible or other religious doctrine or who attends a church if I have given that impression. But the way I see it, God made you, he (or she/it/they) already knows what you believe and what is in your heart so it makes sense to me to tend to your heart first.
i mistrust anyone who cites scripture ad nauseum. God isn't found in a book or in a church, God is found in the heart.
Yep. What some of us have been trying to say. Well said, Anastrophe.
Please let me say I don't think less of anyone who subscribes to the bible or other religious doctrine or who attends a church if I have given that impression. But the way I see it, God made you, he (or she/it/they) already knows what you believe and what is in your heart so it makes sense to me to tend to your heart first.
The rapture
Cindy & Naty - 'Bore the pants off other people' is a better phrase than bother other people. Actions speak louder than words, and Jesus' teachings, to me, seem to lean heavily towards the 'loving your neighbour as yourself' and doing a bit of good in the world, rather than ranting on about stuff for which there is no proof.
When did ranting promote harmony? Isn't there enough strife in the world caused by religion?
When did ranting promote harmony? Isn't there enough strife in the world caused by religion?
The rapture
Ted wrote: He [Jesus] was in all likelihood born in an upper room in Nazareth and not in Bethlehem. I can explain this if anyone would like to read it.
I've been a Christian for 25 years, and I've never heard this. Would you please explain? I'm curious.
Ted wrote: As for the rapture, it is not a Biblical concept but a humanly created one done in error.
I also don't believe in the rapture as commonly understood. I don't believe that Christians will be taken off the earth before the tribulations preceding the 2nd Coming. Why do you believe this way on the rapture?
I've been a Christian for 25 years, and I've never heard this. Would you please explain? I'm curious.
Ted wrote: As for the rapture, it is not a Biblical concept but a humanly created one done in error.
I also don't believe in the rapture as commonly understood. I don't believe that Christians will be taken off the earth before the tribulations preceding the 2nd Coming. Why do you believe this way on the rapture?
The rapture
Tigerlily wrote:
I think the same as Elizabeth I when it comes to religion - which is you should keep yourself to yourself about it and not bother other people.
I reason why i put "if this is bothering you then dont post anything....."is because this is a forum site to talk about peoples opinions..debate them..
I think the same as Elizabeth I when it comes to religion - which is you should keep yourself to yourself about it and not bother other people.
I reason why i put "if this is bothering you then dont post anything....."is because this is a forum site to talk about peoples opinions..debate them..
The rapture
opps guess i should have posted this thread in the debate thread!!!!:-5 sorry
The rapture
cindy28 wrote: opps guess i should have posted this thread in the debate thread!!!!:-5 sorry
I think a lot of you have have shot off at a tangent. The original question was when will the Rapture occur? Jesus himself said no man will know the hour, not even the Son, which has already been mentioned. However, nobody seems to have mentioned the book of Revelations by St' John the Divine. Regardless of how gobbledegook it may come across, much of it beyond our comprehension, all these things WILL COME TO PASS BEFORE the second coming. So fas as I know, the moon hasn't lost a quarter of it's size, neither has there been a four-year lull, where there will be no wind or tide etc. As I said all these things MUST and WILL come to pass, because it has been revealed, but to the non-believer it is , of course, absolute c**p. So be it, if that's what you want. I do know one thing though - as a born-again Christian, I am happy - and ready to meet the one who has NEVER let me down, and never will.
I think a lot of you have have shot off at a tangent. The original question was when will the Rapture occur? Jesus himself said no man will know the hour, not even the Son, which has already been mentioned. However, nobody seems to have mentioned the book of Revelations by St' John the Divine. Regardless of how gobbledegook it may come across, much of it beyond our comprehension, all these things WILL COME TO PASS BEFORE the second coming. So fas as I know, the moon hasn't lost a quarter of it's size, neither has there been a four-year lull, where there will be no wind or tide etc. As I said all these things MUST and WILL come to pass, because it has been revealed, but to the non-believer it is , of course, absolute c**p. So be it, if that's what you want. I do know one thing though - as a born-again Christian, I am happy - and ready to meet the one who has NEVER let me down, and never will.
The rapture
RedGlitter:-6
Thanks. It is appreciated.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Thanks. It is appreciated.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The rapture
seeker:-6
Mary and probably Joseph were from Nazareth. That is where they lived and Jesus became known as Jesus of Nazareth.
To begin with Roman political records are well kept and highly accurate. There is absolutely no historic evidence for the census mentioned in the birth stories. Such census as described is ridiculous. People are not asked to go to the town of their birth to be counted. That could pose a myriad of problems for families where husband and wife were born in different parts of the country. A census is done and was done in those days as it is today, by counting the people where they live.
One has to further understand that the gospels are not biographies. Some of the Hebrews were so profoundly affected by this Jesus that they decided after his death that he was indeed the Messiah. Having made this decision they then went to the OT and searched out the prophesies that seemed to point to the Messiah. In the traditional midrashic style, the story was then written up to show that Jesus was the Messiah. This was not an attempt to deceive anyone but a particular style of writing in which the OT was used to interpret the meaning of something new and in this case Jesus.
The evangelist had to get Mary and Josheph to Bethlehem so that the prophesy could be "fulfilled" in a manner of speaking.
Since Mary and Joseph were residents of Nazareth they would have no reason to journey to Bethlehem.
The crucifixion stories are also midrashic. This does not deny the crucifixion of Jesus but was used to interpret his death. Sometimes one can replace the word "midrash" with the term parable.
Thus in the NT we have the parables of Jesus and the parables about Jesus. Nevertheless the parables have profound truths to teach us.
I hope this helps.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Mary and probably Joseph were from Nazareth. That is where they lived and Jesus became known as Jesus of Nazareth.
To begin with Roman political records are well kept and highly accurate. There is absolutely no historic evidence for the census mentioned in the birth stories. Such census as described is ridiculous. People are not asked to go to the town of their birth to be counted. That could pose a myriad of problems for families where husband and wife were born in different parts of the country. A census is done and was done in those days as it is today, by counting the people where they live.
One has to further understand that the gospels are not biographies. Some of the Hebrews were so profoundly affected by this Jesus that they decided after his death that he was indeed the Messiah. Having made this decision they then went to the OT and searched out the prophesies that seemed to point to the Messiah. In the traditional midrashic style, the story was then written up to show that Jesus was the Messiah. This was not an attempt to deceive anyone but a particular style of writing in which the OT was used to interpret the meaning of something new and in this case Jesus.
The evangelist had to get Mary and Josheph to Bethlehem so that the prophesy could be "fulfilled" in a manner of speaking.
Since Mary and Joseph were residents of Nazareth they would have no reason to journey to Bethlehem.
The crucifixion stories are also midrashic. This does not deny the crucifixion of Jesus but was used to interpret his death. Sometimes one can replace the word "midrash" with the term parable.
Thus in the NT we have the parables of Jesus and the parables about Jesus. Nevertheless the parables have profound truths to teach us.
I hope this helps.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The rapture
weinbeck:-6
Biblcal scholars and translators are fairly much in agreement that John or whomever wrote Revelation was in fact writing about the Roman Empire of his day. He was not writing about some time in the distant future.
All prophesy was about the time of the writer and was not intended to be referring to some time in the distant future. They were calling the people of God to return to their faith in God or face the immediate consequences within the near future.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Biblcal scholars and translators are fairly much in agreement that John or whomever wrote Revelation was in fact writing about the Roman Empire of his day. He was not writing about some time in the distant future.
All prophesy was about the time of the writer and was not intended to be referring to some time in the distant future. They were calling the people of God to return to their faith in God or face the immediate consequences within the near future.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The rapture
Ted wrote: weinbeck:-6
Biblcal scholars and translators are fairly much in agreement that John or whomever wrote Revelation was in fact writing about the Roman Empire of his day. He was not writing about some time in the distant future.
All prophesy was about the time of the writer and was not intended to be referring to some time in the distant future. They were calling the people of God to return to their faith in God or face the immediate consequences within the near future.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You dissappoint me, Ted. You call yourself a Christian, or a Christian pluralist if that's how you choose to describe yourself, and yet you throw a spanner in the works by dismissing almost everything that the Christian faith is based upon. Do you even cast doubt on the Immaculate Conception? Because if you do, in my mind you have no right to call yourself a Christian anything. There are ZILLIONS OF US who accept Jesus Christ as the ONE TRUE SON OF GOD who was born and died SINLESS, for our eternal redemption. What would be the point of a man dying on a cross for us if he were no better than the next man. As part of the hymn goes "there was no other good enough to pay the price of sin..." Are you going to water down his miracles, as well? The blind seeing, the lame walking? If I am naive, if I am being conned, if this whole bible or nine-tenths of it is built on poetry, then there are countless millions out there who are also being conned, and if that's the case, THEN I AM GLAD - GLAD I'm being taken for a ride, because since accepting Jesus Christ into my heart as my personal guide and Saviour, my life has never been the same. Call yourself what you like, a pluralist, philosopher, anything, but DON'T call yourself a Christian!
Biblcal scholars and translators are fairly much in agreement that John or whomever wrote Revelation was in fact writing about the Roman Empire of his day. He was not writing about some time in the distant future.
All prophesy was about the time of the writer and was not intended to be referring to some time in the distant future. They were calling the people of God to return to their faith in God or face the immediate consequences within the near future.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You dissappoint me, Ted. You call yourself a Christian, or a Christian pluralist if that's how you choose to describe yourself, and yet you throw a spanner in the works by dismissing almost everything that the Christian faith is based upon. Do you even cast doubt on the Immaculate Conception? Because if you do, in my mind you have no right to call yourself a Christian anything. There are ZILLIONS OF US who accept Jesus Christ as the ONE TRUE SON OF GOD who was born and died SINLESS, for our eternal redemption. What would be the point of a man dying on a cross for us if he were no better than the next man. As part of the hymn goes "there was no other good enough to pay the price of sin..." Are you going to water down his miracles, as well? The blind seeing, the lame walking? If I am naive, if I am being conned, if this whole bible or nine-tenths of it is built on poetry, then there are countless millions out there who are also being conned, and if that's the case, THEN I AM GLAD - GLAD I'm being taken for a ride, because since accepting Jesus Christ into my heart as my personal guide and Saviour, my life has never been the same. Call yourself what you like, a pluralist, philosopher, anything, but DON'T call yourself a Christian!
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anastrophe
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The rapture
weinbeck wrote: You dissappoint me, Ted. You call yourself a Christian, or a Christian pluralist if that's how you choose to describe yourself, and yet you throw a spanner in the works by dismissing almost everything that the Christian faith is based upon. Do you even cast doubt on the Immaculate Conception? Because if you do, in my mind you have no right to call yourself a Christian anything. There are ZILLIONS OF US who accept Jesus Christ as the ONE TRUE SON OF GOD who was born and died SINLESS, for our eternal redemption. What would be the point of a man dying on a cross for us if he were no better than the next man. As part of the hymn goes "there was no other good enough to pay the price of sin..." Are you going to water down his miracles, as well? The blind seeing, the lame walking? If I am naive, if I am being conned, if this whole bible or nine-tenths of it is built on poetry, then there are countless millions out there who are also being conned, and if that's the case, THEN I AM GLAD - GLAD I'm being taken for a ride, because since accepting Jesus Christ into my heart as my personal guide and Saviour, my life has never been the same. Call yourself what you like, a pluralist, philosopher, anything, but DON'T call yourself a Christian!
jesus would have a field day with you for your hostile contempt for one of his children.
jesus would have a field day with you for your hostile contempt for one of his children.
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The rapture
anastrophe wrote: jesus would have a field day with you for your hostile contempt for one of his children.
GRRR! A bit over the top, eh? That poor cat - you've never seen it shoot out of the room so fast! Point taken, point taken.
GRRR! A bit over the top, eh? That poor cat - you've never seen it shoot out of the room so fast! Point taken, point taken.
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anastrophe
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weinbeck wrote: GRRR! A bit over the top, eh? That poor cat - you've never seen it shoot out of the room so fast! Point taken, point taken.
thanks for the courage, grace - and good humor to acknowledge that.
god is so intensely personal, and each person's relationship with god is completely personal - nobody can judge another person's relationship with god.
thanks for the courage, grace - and good humor to acknowledge that.
god is so intensely personal, and each person's relationship with god is completely personal - nobody can judge another person's relationship with god.
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The rapture
anastrophe wrote: thanks for the courage, grace - and good humor to acknowledge that.
god is so intensely personal, and each person's relationship with god is completely personal - nobody can judge another person's relationship with god.
Ted's probably taken a lot worse than that in his time, as have I. You are, of course, absolutely right. Everybody sees God differently in their own minds. To me, through the Holy Spirit, He envelopes the entire universe, the omnipotent, omnipresent creator of all life - that's why I don't like washing (all those millions of innocent germs I murder.) Seriously, though. I shouldn't get so wound up. Peace be with you.
god is so intensely personal, and each person's relationship with god is completely personal - nobody can judge another person's relationship with god.
Ted's probably taken a lot worse than that in his time, as have I. You are, of course, absolutely right. Everybody sees God differently in their own minds. To me, through the Holy Spirit, He envelopes the entire universe, the omnipotent, omnipresent creator of all life - that's why I don't like washing (all those millions of innocent germs I murder.) Seriously, though. I shouldn't get so wound up. Peace be with you.
The rapture
weinbeck:-6
You are correct. I have taken much worse than that.
No you are not being conned at all. Neither have I been. I am indeed a very devout Christian and am often called upon to deliver sermons at church or to do some research in some field of religious study. I have been apponted to the Eucharistic ministry in the Anglican Church of Canada. On a yearly basis, every summer, I spend time at the Vancouver School of Theology. I have studies under many folks and lately under three of the world's recognized top scholars: Marcus Borg, Matthew Fox, and Dom Crossan.
It would be a lengthy post to put it all in one but I would be willing to explain my understanding that I have gained through some 40 years of both formal and informal studies and have personal acquaintances that are theologians.
To put it suscinctly I am a Trinitarian and have relied on the guidance of the Holy Spirit for most of my life. My constant prayer has been for knowledge, understanding and wisdom. I'm still working on the first two.
The best place to begin is with my view of the Bible, which by the way is not new. The Bible is composed of myth, folk tale, legend, poetry, short story, fiction, philosophy and theology. It has some history in it but very little. The history comes in kernels spread throughout the Bible. Historically, scientifically and archaeologically the historical accuracy of the Bible cannot be supported.
This does not mean that it does not contain profound truths just as do the parables of Jesus. Something does not have to be historical to present truths. That is a fallacy. Consider the book "Oliver Twist" by Dickens. It presents some great truths about his time and era even though in and of itself it is a work of fiction. Some theologians use the word "midrash" to describe the writings of the Bible. This is an ancient style of writing used by the Hebrews in writing the sacred scriptures. It is a way of interpreting a later event in terms of an earlier event.
An example of midrash is the crossing of the Jordan River by Joshua, supposedly on dry land. It was written this way to show its importance by comparing it to the crossing of the Reed Sea. This is midrash. Some scholars lump all such writings under the title parable. In that sense the creation stories are in fact myth or if you wish parable. They are not historic and were never intended to be read that way.
The great Dominican Meister Eckhart in the early 13 hundreds referred to the parables of Genesis. This is not a new concept. In fact as you can see it is indeed a very old one.
I don't think in the end it matters if you take some of these stories as historical. I am interested in the history of our faith and the sacred scriptures. What is important in the scriptures is what the mean not whether or not they really happened. That is the important question.
I can go further if you wish but I will leave it up to you to so indicate.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You are correct. I have taken much worse than that.
No you are not being conned at all. Neither have I been. I am indeed a very devout Christian and am often called upon to deliver sermons at church or to do some research in some field of religious study. I have been apponted to the Eucharistic ministry in the Anglican Church of Canada. On a yearly basis, every summer, I spend time at the Vancouver School of Theology. I have studies under many folks and lately under three of the world's recognized top scholars: Marcus Borg, Matthew Fox, and Dom Crossan.
It would be a lengthy post to put it all in one but I would be willing to explain my understanding that I have gained through some 40 years of both formal and informal studies and have personal acquaintances that are theologians.
To put it suscinctly I am a Trinitarian and have relied on the guidance of the Holy Spirit for most of my life. My constant prayer has been for knowledge, understanding and wisdom. I'm still working on the first two.
The best place to begin is with my view of the Bible, which by the way is not new. The Bible is composed of myth, folk tale, legend, poetry, short story, fiction, philosophy and theology. It has some history in it but very little. The history comes in kernels spread throughout the Bible. Historically, scientifically and archaeologically the historical accuracy of the Bible cannot be supported.
This does not mean that it does not contain profound truths just as do the parables of Jesus. Something does not have to be historical to present truths. That is a fallacy. Consider the book "Oliver Twist" by Dickens. It presents some great truths about his time and era even though in and of itself it is a work of fiction. Some theologians use the word "midrash" to describe the writings of the Bible. This is an ancient style of writing used by the Hebrews in writing the sacred scriptures. It is a way of interpreting a later event in terms of an earlier event.
An example of midrash is the crossing of the Jordan River by Joshua, supposedly on dry land. It was written this way to show its importance by comparing it to the crossing of the Reed Sea. This is midrash. Some scholars lump all such writings under the title parable. In that sense the creation stories are in fact myth or if you wish parable. They are not historic and were never intended to be read that way.
The great Dominican Meister Eckhart in the early 13 hundreds referred to the parables of Genesis. This is not a new concept. In fact as you can see it is indeed a very old one.
I don't think in the end it matters if you take some of these stories as historical. I am interested in the history of our faith and the sacred scriptures. What is important in the scriptures is what the mean not whether or not they really happened. That is the important question.
I can go further if you wish but I will leave it up to you to so indicate.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The rapture
weinbeck wrote: You dissappoint me, Ted. You call yourself a Christian, or a Christian pluralist if that's how you choose to describe yourself, and yet you throw a spanner in the works by dismissing almost everything that the Christian faith is based upon. Do you even cast doubt on the Immaculate Conception? Because if you do, in my mind you have no right to call yourself a Christian anything. There are ZILLIONS OF US who accept Jesus Christ as the ONE TRUE SON OF GOD who was born and died SINLESS, for our eternal redemption. What would be the point of a man dying on a cross for us if he were no better than the next man. As part of the hymn goes "there was no other good enough to pay the price of sin..." Are you going to water down his miracles, as well? The blind seeing, the lame walking? If I am naive, if I am being conned, if this whole bible or nine-tenths of it is built on poetry, then there are countless millions out there who are also being conned, and if that's the case, THEN I AM GLAD - GLAD I'm being taken for a ride, because since accepting Jesus Christ into my heart as my personal guide and Saviour, my life has never been the same. Call yourself what you like, a pluralist, philosopher, anything, but DON'T call yourself a Christian!
Amen.
Amen.
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anastrophe
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The rapture
anastrophe wrote: disgusting.
Are you a christian??? why you say disgusting??
Are you a christian??? why you say disgusting??
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anastrophe
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The rapture
naty2005 wrote: Are you a christian???
who's asking? are you jesus? I answer only to him.
who's asking? are you jesus? I answer only to him.
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The rapture
weinbeck wrote: You dissappoint me, Ted. You call yourself a Christian, or a Christian pluralist if that's how you choose to describe yourself, and yet you throw a spanner in the works by dismissing almost everything that the Christian faith is based upon. Do you even cast doubt on the Immaculate Conception? Because if you do, in my mind you have no right to call yourself a Christian anything. There are ZILLIONS OF US who accept Jesus Christ as the ONE TRUE SON OF GOD who was born and died SINLESS, for our eternal redemption. What would be the point of a man dying on a cross for us if he were no better than the next man. As part of the hymn goes "there was no other good enough to pay the price of sin..." Are you going to water down his miracles, as well? The blind seeing, the lame walking? If I am naive, if I am being conned, if this whole bible or nine-tenths of it is built on poetry, then there are countless millions out there who are also being conned, and if that's the case, THEN I AM GLAD - GLAD I'm being taken for a ride, because since accepting Jesus Christ into my heart as my personal guide and Saviour, my life has never been the same. Call yourself what you like, a pluralist, philosopher, anything, but DON'T call yourself a Christian!
Ted is a Christian if he says is. Who are you to decide?
Ted is a Christian if he says is. Who are you to decide?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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anastrophe
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The rapture
zinkyusa wrote: Ted is a Christian if he says is. Who are you to decide?
if i may, i think the more pointed and telling way to put it would be "Who are you to judge?"
if i may, i think the more pointed and telling way to put it would be "Who are you to judge?"
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The rapture
anastrophe wrote: if i may, i think the more pointed and telling way to put it would be "Who are you to judge?"
You may anastrophe, and quite right, judge is the issue here.
You may anastrophe, and quite right, judge is the issue here.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
The rapture
anastrophe wrote: who's asking? are you jesus? I answer only to him.
I'm not judging. I love the Lord with all my heart but it's sad that alot of people proclaim to be christian and don't believe what the bible says or can't understand it. God gave us the holy spirit as a guide and teacher of his word when we accept his son as our personal saviour so why do people still don't accept his word?? so when i asked you that it wasn't to be mean. by your answer you don't seem like you have the love of God in you. And the word of God says test everything so i am not judging. If you are a christian be proud to admit it. Jesus said in his word if you don't deny me I won't deny you before my Father.
I'm not judging. I love the Lord with all my heart but it's sad that alot of people proclaim to be christian and don't believe what the bible says or can't understand it. God gave us the holy spirit as a guide and teacher of his word when we accept his son as our personal saviour so why do people still don't accept his word?? so when i asked you that it wasn't to be mean. by your answer you don't seem like you have the love of God in you. And the word of God says test everything so i am not judging. If you are a christian be proud to admit it. Jesus said in his word if you don't deny me I won't deny you before my Father.
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anastrophe
- Posts: 3135
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm
The rapture
naty2005 wrote: I'm not judging. I love the Lord with all my heart but it's sad that alot of people proclaim to be christian and don't believe what the bible says or can't understand it. God gave us the holy spirit when we accept his son as our personal saviour so why do people still don't accept his word?? so when i asked you that it wasn't to be mean. by your answer you don't seem like you have the love of God in you. And the word of God says test everything so i am not judging.
you have convinced yourself well of your righteousness. i find it terribly sad.
too many people make a false idol of the bible. the Book is irrelevant. it's merely the skin of the fruit. the message is the sweet juice.
you have convinced yourself well of your righteousness. i find it terribly sad.
too many people make a false idol of the bible. the Book is irrelevant. it's merely the skin of the fruit. the message is the sweet juice.
[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][/FONT]
The rapture
naty2005 wrote: I'm not judging. I love the Lord with all my heart but it's sad that alot of people proclaim to be christian and don't believe what the bible says or can't understand it. God gave us the holy spirit when we accept his son as our personal saviour so why do people still don't accept his word?? so when i asked you that it wasn't to be mean. by your answer you don't seem like you have the love of God in you. And the word of God says test everything so i am not judging.
Yes you are judging. You are using your interpretation of the Bible as sort of checklist to determine what a Christian is. Why do you have to believe that Jesus is the sole Son of God, or that he died for those of us who were not even born at the time? Why do you even have to believe anything in Bible? The Bible has been edited, and translated many many times over the last 2000 years. How do you know you got the real message? There were other interpretations around for Jesus life and message like the Gnostics. The Christians insured they were all killed off or driven underground. Why isn't the Gospel of Thomas included in the Bible.
Yes you are judging. You are using your interpretation of the Bible as sort of checklist to determine what a Christian is. Why do you have to believe that Jesus is the sole Son of God, or that he died for those of us who were not even born at the time? Why do you even have to believe anything in Bible? The Bible has been edited, and translated many many times over the last 2000 years. How do you know you got the real message? There were other interpretations around for Jesus life and message like the Gnostics. The Christians insured they were all killed off or driven underground. Why isn't the Gospel of Thomas included in the Bible.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
The rapture
anastrophe wrote: you have convinced yourself well of your righteousness. i find it terribly sad.
too many people make a false idol of the bible. the Book is irrelevant. it's merely the skin of the fruit. the message is the sweet juice.
The bible is the final authority of God it is not an idol.Read psalm 119. It's all about the word of God. And I am the righteousness of Christ. I am forgiven and sealed by the holy spirit. God bless.
too many people make a false idol of the bible. the Book is irrelevant. it's merely the skin of the fruit. the message is the sweet juice.
The bible is the final authority of God it is not an idol.Read psalm 119. It's all about the word of God. And I am the righteousness of Christ. I am forgiven and sealed by the holy spirit. God bless.
The rapture
zinkyusa wrote: Yes you are judging. You are using your interpretation of the Bible as sort of checklist to determine what a Christian is. Why do you have to believe that Jesus is the sole Son of God, or that he died for those of us who were not even born at the time? Why do you even have to believe anything in Bible? The Bible has been edited, and translated many many times over the last 2000 years. How do you know you got the real message? There were other interpretations around for Jesus life and message like the Gnostics. The Christians insured they were all killed off or driven underground. Why isn't the Gospel of Thomas included in the Bible.
I know that I know that I know. God is so real to me. I have the Holy spirit and His word is true.
I know that I know that I know. God is so real to me. I have the Holy spirit and His word is true.
The rapture
anastrophe/zinkyusa:-6
Thanks.
Shalom
Ted:-6
naty
I fully accept the "word of God".
That phrase belongs to one only. "The word of God", is "the word made flesh". It belongs to one only and that is not a book. The evangelist John is quite clear about that in the first chapter.
If you wish to understand me than ask. If not you are free to judge but I will submit to the judgement of one only, Almighty God.
Am I a Christian? Absolutely, a Christian pluralist at that.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Thanks.
Shalom
Ted:-6
naty
I fully accept the "word of God".
That phrase belongs to one only. "The word of God", is "the word made flesh". It belongs to one only and that is not a book. The evangelist John is quite clear about that in the first chapter.
If you wish to understand me than ask. If not you are free to judge but I will submit to the judgement of one only, Almighty God.
Am I a Christian? Absolutely, a Christian pluralist at that.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The rapture
anastrophe wrote: you have convinced yourself well of your righteousness. i find it terribly sad.
too many people make a false idol of the bible. the Book is irrelevant. it's merely the skin of the fruit. the message is the sweet juice.Anastrophe
I love the way you say that. I have been looking for a way to say that thought and there it was, right in your head. Thank you.
I may not believe exactly the same in exactly everything as you, but I sure do like that thought.
too many people make a false idol of the bible. the Book is irrelevant. it's merely the skin of the fruit. the message is the sweet juice.Anastrophe
I love the way you say that. I have been looking for a way to say that thought and there it was, right in your head. Thank you.
I may not believe exactly the same in exactly everything as you, but I sure do like that thought.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
The rapture
cindy28 wrote: Just wanting to know what people thought of the "rapture". My mother is a born again christian and she believes that the rapture may happen soon. She said to me today that all "big"things happen on a jewish holiday and she said that september 22 is a day it could happen..... what do u guys think? I have read that nonone knows forsure and we arent suspose to predict things , just go about are daily living...
True, it is called the Feast of Trumpets just this past Saturday. The rapture will occur on that day somewhere in the future.
NAS 1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for athe trumpet will sound, and bthe dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
True, it is called the Feast of Trumpets just this past Saturday. The rapture will occur on that day somewhere in the future.
NAS 1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for athe trumpet will sound, and bthe dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
The rapture
Nevim wrote: True, it is called the Feast of Trumpets just this past Saturday. The rapture will occur on that day somewhere in the future.
NAS 1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for athe trumpet will sound, and bthe dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
Christ's return is our blessed hope. Although we are not told when that will be, I for one wish it were soon.
There'll be a few busted eardrums when that trumpet sounds, eh?
NAS 1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for athe trumpet will sound, and bthe dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
Christ's return is our blessed hope. Although we are not told when that will be, I for one wish it were soon.
There'll be a few busted eardrums when that trumpet sounds, eh?
The rapture
Atsila wrote: Christ's return is our blessed hope. Although we are not told when that will be, I for one wish it were soon.
There'll be a few busted eardrums when that trumpet sounds, eh?
Why do people dwell on the end days? I guess I must live day by day because there is nothing further from my mind than end days. I cannot control it. I cannot do anything about it. I cannot guess at when....people have been doing that and been wrong since time of Christ.
All I can do is to be the best person that I can in my life with Christ, so I am ready if it is one minute from now.
There'll be a few busted eardrums when that trumpet sounds, eh?
Why do people dwell on the end days? I guess I must live day by day because there is nothing further from my mind than end days. I cannot control it. I cannot do anything about it. I cannot guess at when....people have been doing that and been wrong since time of Christ.
All I can do is to be the best person that I can in my life with Christ, so I am ready if it is one minute from now.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
The rapture
Was that rapture or rupture. It sounds like rupture is there are going to be some "busted eardrums".
I am amazed that the number of people hoping the rapture, which is not Biblical, will happen soon. Their great desire is to watch the unsaved suffer greatly. What kind of person would relish watching another human being suffer? Damn good question.
Jesus will return but it will not be some miraculous descending from the clouds. Nor do I think the New Jerusalem, complete with a fully operational infrastructure, will descend from the heavens. Such a concept is purely metaphorical.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I am amazed that the number of people hoping the rapture, which is not Biblical, will happen soon. Their great desire is to watch the unsaved suffer greatly. What kind of person would relish watching another human being suffer? Damn good question.
Jesus will return but it will not be some miraculous descending from the clouds. Nor do I think the New Jerusalem, complete with a fully operational infrastructure, will descend from the heavens. Such a concept is purely metaphorical.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The rapture
weber:-6
A search of the OT will show that people have been expecting the end times from long before Jesus ever arrived on the scene.
Shalom
Ted:-6
A search of the OT will show that people have been expecting the end times from long before Jesus ever arrived on the scene.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The rapture
What I find interesting are folks are christians using thier Zodiac signs along with their ID 
The rapture
Ted wrote: weber:-6
A search of the OT will show that people have been expecting the end times from long before Jesus ever arrived on the scene.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Really, I must have missed that passage; where can I find that in the Tanack ?
A search of the OT will show that people have been expecting the end times from long before Jesus ever arrived on the scene.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Really, I must have missed that passage; where can I find that in the Tanack ?The rapture
weber wrote: Why do people dwell on the end days? I guess I must live day by day because there is nothing further from my mind than end days. I cannot control it. I cannot do anything about it. I cannot guess at when....people have been doing that and been wrong since time of Christ.
All I can do is to be the best person that I can in my life with Christ, so I am ready if it is one minute from now.
NAS Matthew 25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 "And five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3 "For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. 6 "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.' 7 "Then all those virgins rose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 "And the foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 "But the prudent answered, saying, 'No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.' 10 "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. 11 "And later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.' 12 "But he answered and said, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
All I can do is to be the best person that I can in my life with Christ, so I am ready if it is one minute from now.
NAS Matthew 25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 "And five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3 "For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. 6 "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.' 7 "Then all those virgins rose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 "And the foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 "But the prudent answered, saying, 'No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.' 10 "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. 11 "And later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.' 12 "But he answered and said, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
The rapture
Nevim wrote: What I find interesting are folks are christians using thier Zodiac signs along with their ID
It is preset that way.
It is preset that way.
The rapture
Nevim wrote: What I find interesting are folks are christians using thier Zodiac signs along with their ID
Got something against the stars, astrology Nevim. Does the bible say "Thou shalt not look at the stars or pay any attention to Astronomy"? I don't get that.
Got something against the stars, astrology Nevim. Does the bible say "Thou shalt not look at the stars or pay any attention to Astronomy"? I don't get that.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
The rapture
chonsigirl wrote: It is preset that way.
If you notice there is none by my name as I delibrately did not fill that in on my profile....
If you notice there is none by my name as I delibrately did not fill that in on my profile....
The rapture
weber wrote: Got something against the stars, astrology Nevim. Does the bible say "Thou shalt not look at the stars or pay any attention to Astronomy"? I don't get that.
It's got nothing to do with astronomy and everthing to do with astrology something Christains are not be involved with..
NAS Deuteronomy 18:9 "When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. 13 "You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. 14 "For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so..
It's got nothing to do with astronomy and everthing to do with astrology something Christains are not be involved with..
NAS Deuteronomy 18:9 "When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. 13 "You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. 14 "For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so..
The rapture
Nevim wrote: It's got nothing to do with astronomy and everthing to do with astrology something Christains are not be involved with...
I found this. No wish to argue. I just went looking because you made me interested. According to this God has astrology going long before the Pagans. I don't know much about it but the only harm I can see in astrology is when people place it before God and pay attention to the astrology instead of God.
http://www.icnc.org/scratchpad/a13.htm
I found this. No wish to argue. I just went looking because you made me interested. According to this God has astrology going long before the Pagans. I don't know much about it but the only harm I can see in astrology is when people place it before God and pay attention to the astrology instead of God.
http://www.icnc.org/scratchpad/a13.htm
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
The rapture
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?