The rapture

Discuss the Christian Faith.
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chonsigirl
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Post by chonsigirl »

Nevim wrote: If you notice there is none by my name as I delibrately did not fill that in on my profile....:)
I had to hide my date of birth...................learn something new everyday!
Nevim
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Post by Nevim »

weber wrote: I found this. No wish to argue. I just went looking because you made me interested. According to this God has astrology going long before the Pagans. I don't know much about it but the only harm I can see in astrology is when people place it before God and pay attention to the astrology instead of God.




Here is the commandment ...one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. 13 "You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. 14 "For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so..
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Post by Nevim »

chonsigirl wrote: I had to hide my date of birth...................learn something new everyday!


Ah btw Halloween is NOT a good event for a Christain to be involved in. :-2
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weber
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Post by weber »

Nevim wrote: Here is the commandment ...one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. 13 "You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. 14 "For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so..


I am so glad that I follow the bible, just not word for word, period for period. Anastrophe put it in a way not long ago that I never could. I love God. There is no way that ALL of God could possibly be put into one little book. Whatever those words of the bible say, I am sure God does not mind me knowing that my birthdate falls in the sign of Virgo and I am sure He doesn't mind it being there by my name....He did give that period of time the name Virgo. Now if I were to be superstitious, that would be a different matter, but I am not and I would not judge someone who was. It has a small priority in my life.
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Post by Nevim »

weber wrote: I am so glad that I follow the bible, just not word for word, period for period. Anastrophe put it in a way not long ago that I never could. I love God. There is no way that ALL of God could possibly be put into one little book. Whatever those words of the bible say, I am sure God does not mind me knowing that my birthdate falls in the sign of Virgo and I am sure He doesn't mind it being there by my name....He did give that period of time the name Virgo. Now if I were to be superstitious, that would be a different matter, but I am not and I would not judge someone who was. It has a small priority in my life.


I did my part now it's up to you....:-3
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weber
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Post by weber »

Nevim wrote: I did my part now it's up to you....:-3


I repeat Nevim........I am not into witchcraft. Citing the bible to tell people how wrong they are is not my idea of being Christian. It is my idea of Christians being pompous and hurting other people with the bible. I call it bible bashing. I live my life the very best I know how and I follow Christ and I am Christian and as the lady said.....the bible is like the peel of an orange and juice is the sweetness....the people loving one another, not bashing one another. So my duty is to say to you, live your life in the sweetness of love.:)

I will speak no more of this because I detest being bible bashed. Sorry, no offence meant.:-6
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Nevim wrote: Here is the commandment ...one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. 13 "You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. 14 "For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so..I'm glad Christ released us from the impossible-to-follow laws of the OT.
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weber
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Post by weber »

Accountable wrote: I'm glad Christ released us from the impossible-to-follow laws of the OT.


I love you Accountable:-6 :-4
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

weber wrote: I love you Accountable:-6 :-4:yh_blush
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Post by weber »

Ha!!!!

Attached files
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Atsila
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Post by Atsila »

weber wrote: I repeat Nevim........I am not into witchcraft. Citing the bible to tell people how wrong they are is not my idea of being Christian. It is my idea of Christians being pompous and hurting other people with the bible. I call it bible bashing. I live my life the very best I know how and I follow Christ and I am Christian and as the lady said.....the bible is like the peel of an orange and juice is the sweetness....the people loving one another, not bashing one another. So my duty is to say to you, live your life in the sweetness of love.:)

I will speak no more of this because I detest being bible bashed. Sorry, no offence meant.:-6
May I ask how you know you follow the Christ, if you don't know what's in the Bible or allow fellow-believers to share it with you? Wouldn't you want to know of things He disapproves? He shared with you what he thought may help you. How is that bashing with the Bible?

We will stand before the judgment seat of God some day and answer for ourselves. Pleading ignorance of this and that will not help us. Especially if we have decided to stay uninformed in certain matters so we can say we didn't know? It's our privilege to emulate Jesus and HE will help us do it.

Jes asken!

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Post by Nevim »

weber wrote: I repeat Nevim........I am not into witchcraft. Citing the bible to tell people how wrong they are is not my idea of being Christian.


If citing the Scripture is offensive to you then there is most certainly a problem.

weber wrote:

It is my idea of Christians being pompous and hurting other people with the bible.


How does the Word of God "hurt' people ? No the Word of God calls people to repentance !



weber wrote:



I call it bible bashing. I live my life the very best I know how and I follow Christ and I am Christian and as the lady said.....the bible is like the peel of an orange and juice is the sweetness....the people loving one another, not bashing one another. So my duty is to say to you, live your life in the sweetness of love.:)


The sweetness of life comes from obeying God, not position of the Stars.
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Post by Nevim »

Accountable wrote: I'm glad Christ released us from the impossible-to-follow laws of the OT.
Why are they impossible to follow ? The Tanack has 613 commandments and the NT over 1000. The Torah was not given for salvation it was given for man's own sake.
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

Where do you people keep coming from? The Bible is just an old fairytale full of contradiction, chauvenism, intolerance, murder and mayhem.. It may have some divinely inspired messages but people have corrupted and changed those messages over time. Mindlessly reciting the Bible just proves you can't think for yourself..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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weber
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Post by weber »

zinkyusa wrote: Where do you people keep coming from? The Bible is just an old fairytale full of contradiction, chauvenism, intolerance, murder and mayhem.. It may have some divinely inspired messages but people have corrupted and changed those messages over time. Mindlessly reciting the Bible just proves you can't think for yourself..


I think another one of my buddies just flew in:-3

Hi Zinky

I do like the way you think.:-6 :-4
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Post by zinkyusa »

weber wrote: I think another one of my buddies just flew in:-3

Hi Zinky

I do like the way you think.:-6 :-4


Hey weber, I thought I heard some bleating over and decided to fly in and check things out...:wah:
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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weber
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Post by weber »

zinkyusa wrote: Hey weber, I thought I heard some bleating over and decide to fly in and check things out...:wah:


Okay:wah: first belly laugh of the day just flown in by a bat:D
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Post by Nevim »

zinkyusa wrote: Where do you people keep coming from? The Bible is just an old fairytale full of contradiction, chauvenism, intolerance, murder and mayhem.. It may have some divinely inspired messages but people have corrupted and changed those messages over time. Mindlessly reciting the Bible just proves you can't think for yourself..


Yeshua sent me who sent you?
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

Nevim wrote: Yeshua sent me who sent you?


I sent myself...
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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Post by Nevim »

zinkyusa wrote: I sent myself...


And now you know you sent me....
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

Nevim wrote: And now you know you sent me....


LOL and how do you Know you were sent? Does it tell you in your book?
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Ted
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Post by Ted »

Nevim:-6

The Bible is not in and of itself the "word of God". It becomes for Christians the word of God because God speaks to us through the Bible not by virtue of its authorship.

That being said the phrase "The Word of God" belongs to one only, "The word made flesh", and not to a book. John is quite clear on this.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Nevim »

Ted wrote: Nevim:-6

The Bible is not in and of itself the "word of God". It becomes for Christians the word of God because God speaks to us through the Bible not by virtue of its authorship.

That being said the phrase "The Word of God" belongs to one only, "The word made flesh", and not to a book. John is quite clear on this.

Shalom

Ted:-6


More then obiviously it is just a book to most people, however it clearly states it is more then that...

NAS Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. and

NAS Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged dsword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and espirit, of both joints and marrow, and fable to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

and

KJV Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

.
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Post by weber »

Nevim wrote: More then obiviously it is just a book to most people, however it clearly states it is more then that...

NAS Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. and

NAS Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged dsword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and espirit, of both joints and marrow, and fable to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

and

KJV Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

.


When a book starts hurting people, it's value becomes devalued. Bible bashing, beating people over the head, over and over and over, that's hurting people and turning them away from Christianity. I have seen it. If I was not a Christian and got bible bashed, I certainly would not be inclined to become a Christian unless I wanted to JOIN THE TROOPS AND BIBLE BASH OTHER PEOPLE.
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Post by Ted »

Nevim:-6

If the Word of God is living and you think that refers to a book you indeed have an interesting book. Mine is basicall dead organic matter.

As for the Bible declaring itself to be the word of God it is well known in academic spheres that nothing can affirm itself. It must be affirmed from outside of itself.

At any rate such Christians as Hans Kung, Marcus Borg, Dom Crossan, Matthew Fox, John Spong and a host of others agree with my position. The Bible as a book attests to the "Word made flesh". I accept that and that only. To make the Bible a book which is "inerrant" leads to idolatry. My faith is not in a book but in the One to whom the book attests.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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weber
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Post by weber »

Ted wrote: Nevim:-6

If the Word of God is living and you think that refers to a book you indeed have an interesting book. Mine is basicall dead organic matter.

As for the Bible declaring itself to be the word of God it is well known in academic spheres that nothing can affirm itself. It must be affirmed from outside of itself.

At any rate such Christians as Hans Kung, Marcus Borg, Dom Crossan, Matthew Fox, John Spong and a host of others agree with my position. The Bible as a book attests to the "Word made flesh". I accept that and that only. To make the Bible a book which is "inerrant" leads to idolatry. My faith is not in a book but in the One to whom the book attests.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Well said Ted:-6
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Post by Ted »

weber:-6

Thanks.

I think you are right on as well.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Nevim »

]Nevim:-6

If the Word of God is living and you think that refers to a book you indeed have an interesting book. Mine is basicall dead organic matter.


Ok so you don't believe in Scripture....that's not my fault.



Ted wrote:

As for the Bible declaring itself to be the word of God it is well known in academic spheres that nothing can affirm itself. It must be affirmed from outside of itself.


I'm not talking about "academic" spheres--how metaphysical of you. I could care less about accademic spheres, they think thier father was a monkey.

Ted wrote:

At any rate such Christians as Hans Kung, Marcus Borg, Dom Crossan, Matthew Fox, John Spong and a host of others agree with my position. The Bible as a book attests to the "Word made flesh". I accept that and that only. To make the Bible a book which is "inerrant" leads to idolatry. My faith is not in a book but in the One to whom the book attests.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Spong ? :wah: Who cares Ted, I certainly don't ! To make the Scripture anyting else makes it a sci-fi book, prehaps the bat will fly into this thread as well.
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Post by Nevim »

weber wrote: When a book starts hurting people, it's value becomes devalued. Bible bashing, beating people over the head, over and over and over, that's hurting people and turning them away from Christianity. I have seen it. If I was not a Christian and got bible bashed, I certainly would not be inclined to become a Christian unless I wanted to JOIN THE TROOPS AND BIBLE BASH OTHER PEOPLE.


The Relativist Fallacy (or the Subjectivist Fallacy) is committed when a person rejects a claim by asserting that the claim might be true for others but is not for him/her. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

Claim X is presented.

Person A asserts that X may be true for others but is not true for him/her.

Therefore A is justified in rejecting X.

In this context, relativism is the view that truth is relative to Z (a person, time, culture, place, etc.). This is not the view that claims will be true at different times or of different people, but the view that a claim could be true for one person and false for another at the same time.

In many cases, when people say "that X is true for me" what they really mean is "I believe X" or "X is true about me." It is important to be quite clear about the distinction between being true about a person and being true for a person. A claim is true about a person if the claim is a statement that describes the person correctly. For example, "Bill has blue eyes" is true of Bill if Bill has blue eyes. To make a claim such as "X is true for Bill" is to say that the claim is true for Bill and that it need not be true for others. For example: "1+1=23 is true for Bill" would mean that, for Bill, 1+1 actually does equal 23, not that he merely believes that 1+1=23 (that would be "It is true of Bill that he believes 1+1=23"). Another example would be "The claim that the earth is flat is true for Bill" would mean that the earth really is flat for Bill (in other words, Bill would be in a different world than the rest of the human race). Since these situations (1+1 being 23 and the earth being flat for Bill) are extremely strange, it certainly seems that truth is not relative to individuals (although beliefs are).

As long as truth is objective (that is, not relative to individuals), then the Relativist Fallacy is a fallacy. If there are cases in which truth is actually relative, then such reasoning need not be fallacious.



Examples:

Jill: "Look at this, Bill. I read that people who do not get enough exercise tend to be unhealthy."

Bill: "That may be true for you, but it is not true for me."



Jill: "I think that so called argument you used to defend your position is terrible. After all, a fallacy hardly counts as an argument. "

Bill: "That may be true for you, but it is not true for me."



Bill: "Your position results in a contradiction, so I can't accept it."

Dave: "Contradictions may be bad on your Eurocentric, oppressive, logical world view, but I don't think they are bad. Therefore my position is just fine."





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Post by Ted »

Nevim:-6

I very much believe in scripture just not that it is the inerrant and final word of God.

You don't like the academic sphere but if it hadn't been for that you would not have the Bible you have today.

As far as anything else, than inerrant, makes it a sci-fi book is pure nonsense.

The Bible was never intended to be read in a literal way. It is written in the style of midrash which is an ancient Hebrew writing style and makes great use of metaphor or if you like parable.

In the four gospels we have the parables of Jesus as well as the parables about Jesus. They are founded on the actual life and death of one Jesus of Nazareth or if you like Yeshua.

Far too many folks have made something of Jesus that I think were the historical Jesus to return he would be apalled. This in no way denies that he is the Messiah.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by weber »

Nevim wrote: The Relativist Fallacy (or the Subjectivist Fallacy) is committed when a person rejects a claim by asserting that the claim might be true for others but is not for him/her. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:






Haven't got a clue what you said there Nevim

but I defend to all your right to say it.:D
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Post by Nevim »

Ted wrote: Nevim:-6

I very much believe in scripture just not that it is the inerrant and final word of God.


Then why believe it. Can't have it both ways Ted.



Ted wrote:

You don't like the academic sphere but if it hadn't been for that you would not have the Bible you have today.


The only person, Ted, that was an academic was Luke.

Ted wrote:

As far as anything else, than inerrant, makes it a sci-fi book is pure nonsense.

The Bible was never intended to be read in a literal way. It is written in the style of midrash which is an ancient Hebrew writing style and makes great use of metaphor or if you like parable.


There are literal statements, there are metaphors and thier are Idioms and a host of other figures of speech in Scripture. And no it's not in the style of a Midrash if it where then their would be no need for midrash's would there.





Ted wrote:

Far too many folks have made something of Jesus that I think were the historical Jesus to return he would be apalled. This in no way denies that he is the Messiah.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Well Ted, I agree with your there only not like you think.
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Post by Ted »

Nevim:-6

The claims of the Bible are relative to the time and era in which they were written. To apply them to the 21st cent. they need to be reinterpreted in light of modern conceptualization abilities, culture, language, ever increasing fund of knowledge, human experience, history, etc.

As for Bill whether or not 1+1=2 is once again relative depending on the number base that is being used. The binary system or the base 12 system being two systems different from the base ten system.

As far as objectivity goes, there is no such animal. That is merely a human construct.

As a former Bible translator I can assure you that the oriental philosophy is loaded with contradictions. A good example is the agreement among the ancients that the creation story, which is two different stories happened both ways at the same time.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Ted »

Nevim:-6

The same old idea. You can't have it both ways. Actually the Bible becomes for Christians the word of God because God speaks to us through the very human words of the Bible.

I was not referring to the writers of the NT of whom the only one we know for sure was Paul and only 7 of the letters written under his name were in fact written by Paul. The rest were written by pseudo-Paul who would have been one or more of his followers.

I was referring to the scholarship that decided among the many manuscripts which ones should be included. The additional problem they faced is that they were reading copies of copies of copies etc. In fact there were several volumes of Matthew alone and each one was different. Thus the scholars were hard pressed to include the exact words of the original and in fact still do not know.

Oh yes the Bible is Midrash or parable if you like. It does have some kernels of history withing. However, the important question is not did it really happen this way but in fact "What does it mean?"

No I don't think you agree with me at all.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Ted »

Nevim:-6

The final copy of the Bible we have was acquired by a vote.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Nevim »

Ted wrote: Nevim:-6

The claims of the Bible are relative to the time and era in which they were written.


So says Ted, Ted don't you ever read the paper ? IS that another of Mr Bairds theories ? Or is that all you ? If it's all you please lets see you make your case..



Ted wrote:

To apply them to the 21st cent. they need to be reinterpreted in light of modern conceptualization abilities, culture, language, ever increasing fund of knowledge, human experience, history, etc.




Ted, in the Bible, the book you don't read, God Himself states He never changes..anyway Ted what's "new under the sun" ? Nothing Ted, nothing at all.
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Post by Nevim »

Ted wrote: Nevim:-6

The final copy of the Bible we have was acquired by a vote.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Ted, as a messianic Jew I have the Tanack which has been around much, much, longer then those who "voted" besides we have the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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Post by weber »

Nevim wrote: Ted, as a messianic Jew I have the Tanack which has been around much, much, longer then those who "voted" besides we have the Dead Sea Scrolls.


To both of you

God is more important than any of those books or words. God isn't a book.
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Post by Ted »

Nevim:-6

You have no idea about what I read or do not read. You have no idea about my background or the depth of my faith.

I can assure you that I am not alone. There are hundreds of theologians and Bible scholars with whom in fact I am in agreement.

No, of course I never read the Bible that is why I learned translation and interpretation as well as Biblical history. I wouldn't dare waste my time in such a mundane task. Give me a break.

As I have said before my faith is in the "Word of God" made flesh and not in a very human book which is man's response to his experience of the Divine.

BTW I forgot to mention elsewhere that within the manuscripts of the NT alone there are some 200 000 + variations. I guess we don't need any scholars for that. Folks can just bumble along and print anything they like.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Ted »

Nevim:-6

What do the Dead Sea Scrolls have to do with this?

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Nevim »

weber wrote: To both of you

God is more important than any of those books or words. God isn't a book.


Of course God is not a book, however His commandments are found in that Book. The rest is up to you...
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weber
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Post by weber »

Nevim wrote: Of course God is not a book, however His commandments are found in that Book. The rest is up to you...


The commandments are in the book of course. And do I need to be reminded of that. I don't think so. Gracious, I even know what the commandments are. Ah, and I even follow them as well as any frail human.

But all of God and His knowledge cannot possibly be contained in that small book. I merely suggest that there is more to do, to be learned than the bible alone. I have been quoted to from the bible to the point where I no longer even do more than glance at them. I love to communicate rather than continually quote. I find people who speak from their minds incredibly interesting.
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Nevim wrote: Why are they impossible to follow ? The Tanack has 613 commandments and the NT over 1000. The Torah was not given for salvation it was given for man's own sake. It's irrelevant why they're impossible to follow because we've been released from them. Do you follow the old law? All of it? How often do you offer burned sacrifices?
Atsila
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Post by Atsila »

weber wrote: The commandments are in the book of course. And do I need to be reminded of that. I don't think so. Gracious, I even know what the commandments are. Ah, and I even follow them as well as any frail human.

But all of God and His knowledge cannot possibly be contained in that small book. I merely suggest that there is more to do, to be learned than the bible alone. I have been quoted to from the bible to the point where I no longer even do more than glance at them. I love to communicate rather than continually quote. I find people who speak from their minds incredibly interesting.
All of God cannot be contained anywhere, nor is it meant to be. What is contained in the Bible, however, is the plan of salvation in its entirety. We can talk about it, write about it until the cows go to Venus, and that does NOT alter that fact.

The temptation is to add or take away from scripture and deny its proper place. There are warnings in scripture that suggest such practice should be avoided.
Atsila
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Post by Atsila »

Accountable wrote: It's irrelevant why they're impossible to follow because we've been released from them. Do you follow the old law? All of it? How often do you offer burned sacrifices?
You are released from the law of Moses, or sacrificial law. We are no longer under that system. Christ fulfilled it.

However, the Ten Commandments are valid. They are designed to point out sin and they do so effectively. Grace gives us another chance when we break that law, which is what grace is designed to do.

“Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law” (Romans 3:31).

“What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?” (Romans 6:15, 16).

http://www.justforcatholics.org/a51.htm

Great peace have those who love Your law,

And nothing causes them to stumble.

LORD, I hope for Your salvation,

And I do Your commandments (Psalm 119:165, 166).

Can we do it? I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Atsila
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Post by Atsila »

weber wrote: When a book starts hurting people, it's value becomes devalued. Bible bashing, beating people over the head, over and over and over, that's hurting people and turning them away from Christianity. I have seen it. If I was not a Christian and got bible bashed, I certainly would not be inclined to become a Christian unless I wanted to JOIN THE TROOPS AND BIBLE BASH OTHER PEOPLE.
I find it interesting that such a scholarly man as you suggests that a book can hurt people. It's like saying that guns do, or poison does.

I'm thinking of Paul, and Christ, and how they used 'The Book'. Certainly, some folks they approached, did not like what they heard, so bible-bashing can be laid to their charge.

If I don't like what I hear, I most certainly feel bashed. Don't you? Be that with the Bible or Mom's cookbook. OK?

Let it percolate!
Atsila
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The rapture

Post by Atsila »

weber wrote: To both of you

God is more important than any of those books or words. God isn't a book.
If not for THAT book, where would you look for HIM and learn and understand HIS requirements? How would you learn of Jesus and HIS gifts?
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

Atsila wrote: All of God cannot be contained anywhere, nor is it meant to be. What is contained in the Bible, however, is the plan of salvation in its entirety. We can talk about it, write about it until the cows go to Venus, and that does NOT alter that fact.

The temptation is to add or take away from scripture and deny its proper place. There are warnings in scripture that suggest such practice should be avoided.


but hasn't that been done many many times? it took 400 years to determine the books that would comprise the New Testament and much longer for the Old.

how do you know the pickers got it right, much less the parts that don't translate well. the Bible requires much interpretation to be anything approaching the word of a loving GOD, IMO. I believe the Gospel of Thomas had more of the original message of Jesus and it's not even in the Bible.

if the Bible is taken literaly as the inerrant word of God then it is simply factually wrong both historically and scientifically.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Atsila
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Post by Atsila »

zinkyusa wrote: but hasn't that been done many many times? it took 400 years to determine the books that would comprise the New Testament and much longer for the Old.

how do you know the pickers got it right, much less the parts that don't translate well. the Bible requires much interpretation to be anything approaching the word of a loving GOD, IMO. I believe the Gospel of Thomas had more of the original message of Jesus and it's not even in the Bible.

if the Bible is taken literaly as the inerrant word of God then it is simply factually wrong both historically and scientifically.
OK!
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weber
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Post by weber »

Atsila wrote: If not for THAT book, where would you look for HIM and learn and understand HIS requirements? How would you learn of Jesus and HIS gifts?


I got to know Him from the bible and then once I got to know Him through the bible, I began to know Him through His Real Presence in my life. It is through His Real Presence in my life that I learn more of Him and more of how to have Him in my life more. If I had stopped at the bible, I would be missing a lot of Him that I have grown to love dearly and give my life to and follow as He wishes. God is Love and Love continues on forever.
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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