The rapture

Discuss the Christian Faith.
cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

Just wanting to know what people thought of the "rapture". My mother is a born again christian and she believes that the rapture may happen soon. She said to me today that all "big"things happen on a jewish holiday and she said that september 22 is a day it could happen..... what do u guys think? I have read that nonone knows forsure and we arent suspose to predict things , just go about are daily living...
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Marie5656
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Post by Marie5656 »

As a devout questioner, I am not sure we can, or should predict such events. I don't know. I would rather spend my time enjoying life, and not worrying about the end of it.

No offense to your mom, or others who believe as she does.
cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

no offence taken... .. just curiouse as to what people thought.
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weber
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Post by weber »

cindy28 wrote: Just wanting to know what people thought of the "rapture". My mother is a born again christian and she believes that the rapture may happen soon. She said to me today that all "big"things happen on a jewish holiday and she said that september 22 is a day it could happen..... what do u guys think? I have read that nonone knows forsure and we arent suspose to predict things , just go about are daily living...


My son's birthday is September 24 and nothing disastrous is going to happen before then.

To be truthful Cindy, I live hour by hour, day by day, week by week. I could be run over by a car tomorrow or anything, a heart attack. September 22 will come and it will go like every other predicted last day. And if it doesn't come, we aren't going to know so I really don't think it matters.

Peace girl
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cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

It just kinda mattered to me becaue my mom had said it to me today. She wants it to happen.. not affraid of it or anything. Just wondering what people thought:)
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weber
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Post by weber »

Why does she want it to happen Cindy?

I didn't mean to make light of it but I think way back around the time of Jesus they were predicting the last day and they have been doing it ever since. One day the prediction will be right but I don't think it will be when we expect it.
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



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Sheryl
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Post by Sheryl »

cindy28 wrote: Just wanting to know what people thought of the "rapture". My mother is a born again christian and she believes that the rapture may happen soon. She said to me today that all "big"things happen on a jewish holiday and she said that september 22 is a day it could happen..... what do u guys think? I have read that nonone knows forsure and we arent suspose to predict things , just go about are daily living...


I was raised believing the rapture is/was supposed to happen. And it seems every generation trys to predict it. I remeber when the U.S. first went to war with Iraq. I was in jr. high and I remeber my baby sitter saying the the Rapture was gonna happen that night. I was scared to go to sleep that night.

If it happens it happens, if it don't it don't. Just my 2 cents. :o
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cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

weber wrote: Why does she want it to happen Cindy?

I didn't mean to make light of it but I think way back around the time of Jesus they were predicting the last day and they have been doing it ever since. One day the prediction will be right but I don't think it will be when we expect it.


She believes that all the believers, peple that are saved, will be brought up to heaven . away from this "evil" world.
cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

Sheryl wrote: I was raised believing the rapture is/was supposed to happen. And it seems every generation trys to predict it. I remeber when the U.S. first went to war with Iraq. I was in jr. high and I remeber my baby sitter saying the the Rapture was gonna happen that night. I was scared to go to sleep that night.

If it happens it happens, if it don't it don't. Just my 2 cents. :o


Yeah when i was young i was scared also. I was scared that one day my mom would be gone.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

cindy28 wrote: She believes that all the believers, peple that are saved, will be brought up to heaven . away from this "evil" world.


No offence to you or your mother but I find the belief ridiculous. What kind of "father" turns his back and throws out most of his children. If god made all things and all mankind then I would be very wary of any mortal claims to know who is worthy. I would have thought the very fact that they would judge others as so unworthy would automatically get them excluded.

On the other hand I am a non believer so my opinion is perhaps simply wrong. Who knows? But I'm fairly sure it's not any would be religious leader.
RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

Not all big things happen on Jewish holidays.

I don't believe in it at all. I don't believe that the world is going to *poof* end and all the good worthy people are going to go up to the sky and live with God. I think that's yet one more thing made up by humans in power designed to keep control over more gullible persons and to gain even more power.

I am positive there is an afterlife on a different plane of existence but I don't believe in "heaven."

But I'm not christian so maybe my opinion isn't applicable here. :)
Tigerlily
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Post by Tigerlily »

What is the rapture? According to someone called Ysreal the world was supposed to have ended on 12th Sept. We are still here, and I'm only glad I didn't agree to let my daughter have a tattoo on the basis that it would never happen because none of us would be here.
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

Tigerlily wrote: What is the rapture? According to someone called Ysreal the world was supposed to have ended on 12th Sept. We are still here, and I'm only glad I didn't agree to let my daughter have a tattoo on the basis that it would never happen because none of us would be here.


The rapture is the catching away of the church. No one knows the day or the hour only the father in heaven knows. God is going to judge this world for their sins. Gods wrath is going to fall thats why people need to give their hearts to Christ for he is the only way to salvation. Even if nobody believes is going to still happen. God promised that every knee shall bow and every mouth will confess that jesus is LORD.
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

RedGlitter wrote: Not all big things happen on Jewish holidays.

I don't believe in it at all. I don't believe that the world is going to *poof* end and all the good worthy people are going to go up to the sky and live with God. I think that's yet one more thing made up by humans in power designed to keep control over more gullible persons and to gain even more power.

I am positive there is an afterlife on a different plane of existence but I don't believe in "heaven."

But I'm not christian so maybe my opinion isn't applicable here. :)


The things of God is foolishness to those who don't believe. Once a person gives his heart to Christ he/she becomes born agin in the spirit. They become alive inside and the things of God becomes more clear. He gives understanding to those that have given their whole hearts to Christ. Thats why Christ died for you and me and the whole world so we don't have to suffer Gods wrath. God is love but he is also a holy God he always judges sin. A time is coming and its right at the door Gods judgement is coming to this earth and he is taking the church out first.That time is called The Great Tribulation and Jesus warns us about that in the bible. Im sorry but if you reject him now you'll suffer for it. I pray that God touches your heart for with Him nothing is impossible. You may not believe but He loves you and hopes you cone to Him. Even if you don't belive but their is a heaven and hell and I pray you choose Christ so you don't have to suffer in HELL. I think it's sad that he is our creator and we are alive and have breath in our lungs because of him and people still reject him.. People don't understand that His patience with us is our salvation. If he comes now alot of people will perish and he said in his word he doesn't want any to perish but it's our decision if we want to be saved. It's like noah and the ark he told people come to the ark Gods going to judge this world with a big flood but people didn't believe and they all perished except noah and his family and the ark is a type of Christ.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Tell me why are people who believe in jesus christ and his message of love etc so keen on the vicious, vindictive jealous god of the old testament. If they are one and the same he seems to be have a split personality. If you have to be afraid of god to believe then so far as I am concerned you can keep it.
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

naty2005 wrote: The things of God is foolishness to those who don't believe. Once a person gives his heart to Christ he/she becomes born agin in the spirit. They become alive inside and the things of God becomes more clear. He gives understanding to those that have given their whole hearts to Christ. Thats why Christ died for you and me and the whole world so we don't have to suffer Gods wrath. God is love but he is also a holy God he always judges sin. A time is coming and its right at the door Gods judgement is coming to this earth and he is taking the church out first.That time is called The Great Tribulation and Jesus warns us about that in the bible. Im sorry but if you reject him now you'll suffer for it. I pray that God touches your heart for with Him nothing is impossible. You may not believe but He loves you and hopes you cone to Him. Even if you don't belive but their is a heaven and hell and I pray you choose Christ so you don't have to suffer in HELL. I think it's sad that he is our creator and we are alive and have breath in our lungs because of him and people still reject him.. People don't understand that His patience with us is our salvation. If he comes now alot of people will perish and he said in his word he doesn't want any to perish but it's our decision if we want to be saved. It's like noah and the ark he told people come to the ark Gods going to judge this world with a big flood but people didn't believe and they all perished except noah and his family and the ark is a type of Christ.


Someone sure brainwashed you good Naty. Are you open to any discussion or are you past that point? Is the Bible the literal word of God? If so, how can we explain all the contradictions and just plain wrong historical information? I don't want you to abandon your faith just to open your mind a bit and let some fresh air in.:-6
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Adam Zapple
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Post by Adam Zapple »

What makes you think naty is any more close-minded or brainwashed than those who refuse to accept the possibility of God? She simply stated her opinion, which was asked of her in the opening post, no different that those who come in here and say religious belief is illogical and naive.
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

Adam Zapple wrote: What makes you think naty is any more close-minded or brainwashed than those who refuse to accept the possibility of God? She simply stated her opinion, which was asked of her in the opening post, no different that those who come in here and say religious belief is illogical and naive.


Actually Adam it was her post that me think it..
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

On further review my choice of the word brainwashed was to strong and judgemental and I withdraw it. Sorry Naty..Thank you for calling my attention to my insenitivity as well Adam.. (Takes foot out of mouth).:-6
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naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

gmc wrote: Tell me why are people who believe in jesus christ and his message of love etc so keen on the vicious, vindictive jealous god of the old testament. If they are one and the same he seems to be have a split personality. If you have to be afraid of god to believe then so far as I am concerned you can keep it.
I'm sorry you feel that way. God is a loving God but He always judges sin. Before Christ died for this world God would judge sin right on the spot. Now that Christ died for us we are under grace meaning He doesn't give us what we deserve. He is merciful but people rather live in darkness that light. It's like having a child and you constantly tell them don't do this because it's going to harm you but they don't want to listen and they still do it. You didn't cause the hurt they brought it upon themselves. If you study the old testament you would see that God warned them before they entered the promised land not to worship their gods and to becareful to follow his commands because it'll go well with them. See God always warns first then it's up to you. God has his laws the way this world have laws. What happens if you break a law?? Don't you have to face the consecuenses? it also goes with Gods. I rather fall in the hands of God than the hands of men because he is mercifull and men are not.
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

naty2005 wrote: I'm sorry you feel that way. God is a loving God but He always judges sin. Before Christ died for this world God would judge sin right on the spot. Now that Christ died for us we are under grace meaning He doesn't give us what we deserve. He is merciful but people rather live in darkness that light. It's like having a child and you constantly tell them don't do this because it's going to harm you but they don't want to listen and they still do it. You didn't cause the hurt they brought it upon themselves. If you study the old testament you would see that God warned them before they entered the promised land not to worship their gods and to becareful to follow his commands because it'll go well with them. See God always warns first then it's up to you. God has his laws the way this world have laws. What happens if you break a law?? Don't you have to face the consecuenses? it also goes with Gods. I rather fall in the hands of God than the hands of men because he is mercifull and men are not.


Naty, there are billions of people who do not believe that Christ died for them. Do you really believe that a loving God or Jesus would condemn them to hell for that? I don't believe a loving God cares what form you choose to worship that love as long as you love your fellows and try to be kind to them. Do you honestly believe that a somone like the Budda or Ghandi is now languishing in hell?
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naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

zinkyusa wrote: On further review my choice of the word brainwashed was to strong and judgemental and I withdraw it. Sorry Naty..Thank you for calling my attention to my insenitivity as well Adam.. (Takes foot out of mouth).:-6


I don't hold anything against anybody. These are the end times even if you don't believe it. Gods word is being attacked but their is so many evidence that his word is true. I'm just happy that you guys are actually talking about this and thats how faith begins.
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

zinkyusa wrote: Naty, there are billions of people who do not believe that Christ died for them. Do you really believe that a loving God or Jesus would condemn them to hell for that? I don't believe a loving God cares what form you choose to worship that love as long as you love your fellows and try to be kind to them. Do you honestly believe that a somone like the Budda or Ghandi is now languishing in hell?


He is a loving God that is why He is giving people chances to come to Him. Jesus said in His word if you don"t have the son you neither have the Father because the son and the Father are one. He also said I am the way the truth and the light no one can come to the father but through me first. Everything is Christ that is why when we become born again you accept his sacrifice because he died on your behalf. We are hidden in Christ. When you are born again God sees Christ in You!! Like I said before the things of God is foolishness to those who don't believe. The samaritan women said to Jesus "Our fathers worshipped on this mountain but your people says we must worship in the temple what do you say and jesus told her a time is coming when the father will look for those that worship him in Spirit and in truth. JESUS IS THE TRUTH!!! God is Spirit!!!
cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

If you know true love you know God.If you read the bible in the spirit "love" , things will make sence and come to life...
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

cindy28 wrote: If you know true love you know God.If you read the bible in the spirit "love" , things will make sence and come to life...


AMEN AND AMEN!!!! EVERYTIME JESUS SPOKE TO THE CROWDS HE SPOKE IN PARABLES. THEN HE WOULD TAKE HIS DISCIPLES ASIDE AND WOULD EXPLAIN TO THEM IN PLAIN LANGUAGE. IF YOUR NOT BORN AGAIN IT ALL SOUNDS LIKE PARABLES BUT ONCE YOU GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO CHRIST HE WILL OPEN UP YOUR EYES TO HIS WONDERFULL TREACHURES FOUND IN HIS WORD.
RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

naty2005 wrote: The things of God is foolishness to those who don't believe. Once a person gives his heart to Christ he/she becomes born agin in the spirit. They become alive inside and the things of God becomes more clear. He gives understanding to those that have given their whole hearts to Christ. Thats why Christ died for you and me and the whole world so we don't have to suffer Gods wrath. God is love but he is also a holy God he always judges sin. A time is coming and its right at the door Gods judgement is coming to this earth and he is taking the church out first.That time is called The Great Tribulation and Jesus warns us about that in the bible. Im sorry but if you reject him now you'll suffer for it. I pray that God touches your heart for with Him nothing is impossible. You may not believe but He loves you and hopes you cone to Him. Even if you don't belive but their is a heaven and hell and I pray you choose Christ so you don't have to suffer in HELL. I think it's sad that he is our creator and we are alive and have breath in our lungs because of him and people still reject him.. People don't understand that His patience with us is our salvation. If he comes now alot of people will perish and he said in his word he doesn't want any to perish but it's our decision if we want to be saved. It's like noah and the ark he told people come to the ark Gods going to judge this world with a big flood but people didn't believe and they all perished except noah and his family and the ark is a type of Christ.


See it's just this kind of tripe that turns people away from christianity- the self righteous holier than thou preaching. What did I say Naty that gave you an impression that I don't believe in God?



Christ is not God to me. That certainly doesn't mean I don't believe in God or that I'm going to hell. Please. If YOU believe that that's fine and if you want to pray for my soul then go right ahead but don't be presumptuous about where I'm going after death and what my own beliefs are. You'll notice that I made no presumptions about YOUR religious beliefs or told you MY religion was THE one and that you should believe in MY God. :) Thank you.
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

cindy28 wrote: Just wanting to know what people thought of the "rapture". My mother is a born again christian and she believes that the rapture may happen soon. She said to me today that all "big"things happen on a jewish holiday and she said that september 22 is a day it could happen..... what do u guys think? I have read that nonone knows forsure and we arent suspose to predict things , just go about are daily living...


Since shes a born again christian she should know that jesus said no one knows the day or the hour only the father in heaven knows.
cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

naty2005 wrote: Since shes a born again christian she should know that jesus said no one knows the day or the hour only the father in heaven knows.


I know she has said that too me too, but she still tryes to predict it.... she watched van impi and i know they try to predict it too.....
Tigerlily
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Post by Tigerlily »

I am a regular churchgoer in the Church of England and we all work together for the good of our community and I'm happy to say, that apart from the services, Jesus and God and prodding other people's internal goings-on just doesn't happen.

I think the same as Elizabeth I when it comes to religion - which is you should keep yourself to yourself about it and not bother other people.
cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

if this is bothering you then dont post anything.....
seekerw
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Post by seekerw »

Cindy,

Since you asked for people's opinions, I'll give you mine. I'm a Christian but I don't believe the rapture as it is commonly taught. I believe that the good and the bad will both suffer through the calamities preceding the Second Coming. This is my understanding of the scriptures.
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

cindy28 wrote: if this is bothering you then dont post anything.....


Amen!! people ask questions and then if they don't like it they get mad. This is a forum anything goes.
RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

Tigerlily wrote:



I think the same as Elizabeth I when it comes to religion - which is you should keep yourself to yourself about it and not bother other people.


I respect this approach. Can you imagine how peaceful our world would be if everyone followed suit? :)
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

RedGlitter wrote: I respect this approach. Can you imagine how peaceful our world would be if everyone followed suit? :)


No it won't be, peace only comes from God. What you call it is denial.
RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

Naty, not being a christian certainly does not mean one doesn't believe in god. Only christians are peculiar to that way of thinking. I have a God, thank you. I am not sure why you are so offended and offensive regarding this issue. If someone doesn't believe in YOUR god that should be no skin off your nose. You just keep believing what you want to and allow others the same courtesy. That's called respect, not denial.
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

RedGlitter wrote: See it's just this kind of tripe that turns people away from christianity- the self righteous holier than thou preaching. What did I say Naty that gave you an impression that I don't believe in God?



Christ is not God to me. That certainly doesn't mean I don't believe in God or that I'm going to hell. Please. If YOU believe that that's fine and if you want to pray for my soul then go right ahead but don't be presumptuous about where I'm going after death and what my own beliefs are. You'll notice that I made no presumptions about YOUR religious beliefs or told you MY religion was THE one and that you should believe in MY God. :) Thank you.


I don't have a religion i have a ralationship with jesus christ. You may call it arrogance i call it confidence in my LORD Jesus Christ. Jesus was back lashed left and right for speaking the truth is the master greater than the servant ? nay so I'm prepared to whatever anybody has to say.
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Post by RedGlitter »

naty2005 wrote: I don't have a religion i have a ralationship with jesus christ. You may call it arrogance i call it confidence in my LORD Jesus Christ. Jesus was back lashed left and right for speaking the truth is the master greater than the servant ? nay so I'm prepared to whatever anybody has to say.




Where the rub comes in Naty, is when you tell others how they're going to hell for not doing whatever you think YOUR lord demands of YOU. Ar eyou unable to see this point? I doubt Buddhists and Muslims etc, are going to hell for believing in the "wrong" god.



Christians always quote, when accused of preaching, that stuff about spreading "God's word." But it also says in the bible "keep me in your heart." Which is what I and many others choose to do. I don't think God would appreciate people judging other people based on what their private religious beliefs are. God made them. Let God sort them out. :)
cindy28
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Post by cindy28 »

God word is all about loving others, yourself and God. God is love .If everyone was to follow this then the world would be peacefull.
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

RedGlitter wrote: Naty, not being a christian certainly does not mean one doesn't believe in god. Only christians are peculiar to that way of thinking. I have a God, thank you. I am not sure why you are so offended and offensive regarding this issue. If someone doesn't believe in YOUR god that should be no skin off your nose. You just keep believing what you want to and allow others the same courtesy. That's called respect, not denial.


If somebody doesn't believe I'm not offended because God gave everybody a free will. You got all mad and frustrated when this is a forum. You asked a question and I answered if you don't want to believe thats on you I have nothing against anybody God says in his word do everything in love. If I came out too strong I didn't mean too but I am not appologising for speaking the truth.
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zinkyusa
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Post by zinkyusa »

naty2005 wrote: If somebody doesn't believe I'm not offended because God gave everybody a free will. You got all mad and frustrated when this is a forum. You asked a question and I answered if you don't want to believe thats on you I have nothing against anybody God says in his word do everything in love. If I came out too strong I didn't mean too but I am not appologising for speaking the truth.


God also kills people in the Bible, how is that loving?
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RedGlitter
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Post by RedGlitter »

naty2005 wrote: If somebody doesn't believe I'm not offended because God gave everybody a free will. You got all mad and frustrated when this is a forum. You asked a question and I answered if you don't want to believe thats on you I have nothing against anybody God says in his word do everything in love. If I came out too strong I didn't mean too but I am not appologising for speaking the truth.


Naty, when someone disagrees with you and tries to get you to see where they're coming from, that is not frustration or getting mad. It is called discussion. Forums are not just for agreeing and disagreeing.



Our truths are just not the same but in my view, God already knows what's in each of our hearts and God will take care of each of us regardless of what path we both choose to take. There is more than one path to God.



That said, if anyone here doesn't believe in a god, I think that's just as fine.
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Post by naty2005 »

:-3 [QUOTE=RedGlitter]Where the rub comes in Naty, is when you tell others how they're going to hell for not doing whatever you think YOUR lord demands of YOU. Ar eyou unable to see this point? I doubt Buddhists and Muslims etc, are going to hell for believing in the "wrong" god.



Christians always quote, when accused of preaching, that stuff about spreading "God's word." But it also says in the bible "keep me in your heart." Which is what I and many others choose to do. I don't think God would appreciate people judging other people based on what their private religious beliefs are. God made them. Let God sort them out. :)[/QUOTE

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Mathew 4:4.This is Jesus quoting scriptures to Satan. "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they recieved the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so".Acts17:11. The bible says to test everything to not be decieved so open up your bible and search. God bless You. Can't call somebody a Christian if they deny christ. Christian means Christ like. Telling the truth about Gods word is not judging for The word says do not judge or lest you be judged.
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zinkyusa
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:34 am

The rapture

Post by zinkyusa »

naty2005 wrote: [QUOTE=RedGlitter]Where the rub comes in Naty, is when you tell others how they're going to hell for not doing whatever you think YOUR lord demands of YOU. Ar eyou unable to see this point? I doubt Buddhists and Muslims etc, are going to hell for believing in the "wrong" god.



Christians always quote, when accused of preaching, that stuff about spreading "God's word." But it also says in the bible "keep me in your heart." Which is what I and many others choose to do. I don't think God would appreciate people judging other people based on what their private religious beliefs are. God made them. Let God sort them out. :)[/QUOTE

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Mathew 4:4.This is Jesus quoting scriptures to Satan. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they recieved the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.Acts17:11. The bible says to test everything to not be decieved so open up your bible and search. God bless You. Can't call somebody a Christian if they deny christ. Christian means Christ like. Telling the truth about Gods word is not judging for The word says do not judge or lest you be judge.


Christ does not mean Jesus.

Jesus was just a man who understood that God's love is for everyone.

Nothing more and certainly nothing less..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
RedGlitter
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

The rapture

Post by RedGlitter »

naty2005 wrote: :-3 [quote=RedGlitter]Where the rub comes in Naty, is when you tell others how they're going to hell for not doing whatever you think YOUR lord demands of YOU. Ar eyou unable to see this point? I doubt Buddhists and Muslims etc, are going to hell for believing in the "wrong" god.



Christians always quote, when accused of preaching, that stuff about spreading "God's word." But it also says in the bible "keep me in your heart." Which is what I and many others choose to do. I don't think God would appreciate people judging other people based on what their private religious beliefs are. God made them. Let God sort them out. :)[/QUOTE



"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.Mathew 4:4.This is Jesus quoting scriptures to Satan. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they recieved the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.Acts17:11. The bible says to test everything to not be decieved so open up your bible and search. God bless You. Can't call somebody a Christian if they deny christ. Christian means Christ like. Telling the truth about Gods word is not judging for The word says do not judge or lest you be judge.


Back to square one...not everyone subscribes to Jesus. Nor should they. Nor should anyone be told they must. God is God regardless of what you subscribe to.
naty2005
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:45 pm

The rapture

Post by naty2005 »

RedGlitter wrote: [quote=naty2005]:-3



Back to square one...not everyone subscribes to Jesus. Nor should they. Nor should anyone be told they must. God is God regardless of what you subscribe to.


like i said before free will.
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zinkyusa
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:34 am

The rapture

Post by zinkyusa »

naty2005 wrote: [QUOTE=RedGlitter]

like i said before free will.


not really if you only have one choice..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
naty2005
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:45 pm

The rapture

Post by naty2005 »

zinkyusa wrote: [QUOTE=naty2005]

not really if you only have one choice..


Their is good and evil nothing in between.
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zinkyusa
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:34 am

The rapture

Post by zinkyusa »

naty2005 wrote: [QUOTE=zinkyusa]

Their is good and evil nothing in between.


Then that's not free will..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
naty2005
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:45 pm

The rapture

Post by naty2005 »

zinkyusa wrote: [QUOTE=naty2005]



Christ does not mean Jesus.

Jesus was just a man who understood that God's love is for everyone.

Nothing more and certainly nothing less..


Jesus is the Christ the annointed one the messiah the prince of peace the king of kings Lord of Lords the lover of my soul. He was sacrificed for the sins of the whole world that through Him we may have forgiveness for our sins.

He fulfilled all the prophecies concerning him all of them!!!!!

What remains is his coming.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Prophecies Concerning Jesus Christ



Luke 24:44-45: Then He said to them, This is what I told you while I was still with you, that everything which is written concerning Me in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled. Then He (thoroughly) opened up their minds to understand the Scriptures"

John 4:19- 26: The woman said to Him, Sir, I see and understand that You are a prophet. Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you (Jews) say that Jerusalem is the place where it is necessary and proper to worship. Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither (merely) in this mountain nor (merely) in Jerusalem. You (Samaritans) do not know what you are worshipping -- you worship what you do not comprehend. We do know what we are worshipping -- we worship what we have knowledge of and understand; for (after all) salvation comes from (among) the Jews. A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshippers. God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality). The woman said to Him, I know that Messiah is coming. He Who is called the Christ, the Anointed One, and when He arrives He will tell us everything we need to know and make it clear to us. Jesus said to her, I Who am now speaking with you am He.



(All Scriptures taken from the Amplified Bible unless otherwise indicated. Jesus' words in red above).



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Lineage of Jesus the Messiah

Places of Jesus the Messiah

Ministry of Jesus the Messiah

Death of Jesus the Messiah

Resurrection of Jesus the Messiah

Future Prophecies Concerning Jesus the Messiah





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Lineage of Jesus the Messiah

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1. The Messiah would be the "Seed of a Woman."

In this very first prophecy in Scripture (spoken against Satan) God's plan of redemption can already be seen. God would bring forth a man, through the woman, who would crush Satan's power.

Prophecy: "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; He shall bruise and tread your head under foot, and you will lie in wait and bruise His heel" (Genesis 3:15).

Fulfillment: "But when the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born subject to (the regulations) of the Law" (Galatians 4:4).

"And she brought forth a male Child, One Who is destined to shepherd (rule) all the nations with an iron staff (scepter), and her Child was caught up to God and to His throne" (Revelation 12:5).

2. The Messiah would be the promised seed of Shem.

After the Great Flood, Noah's three sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth became the fathers of all the nations. God indicated that the Messiah would come through Shem--even before Shem had become the ancestor of Abraham, who was the father of the Hebrew nation.

Prophecy: "Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem, and blessed by the Lord my God be Shem! And let Canaan be his servant! May God enlarge Japheth and let him dwell in the tents of Shem..." (Genesis 9: 26-27).

Fulfillment: "...the son of Shem..." (Luke 3:36).

3. The Messiah would be the Promised Seed of Abraham.

Prophecy: "Since Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed through him, and shall bless themselves by him" (Genesis 18:18).

Fulfillment: "Now the promises (covenants and agreements) were decreed and made to Abraham and his Seed (his Offspring, his Heir)...Who is (none other than) Christ, the Messiah" (Galatians 3:16).

"The book of the ancestry (genealogy) of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the anointed, the son (descendant) of David, the son (descendant) of Abraham" (Matthew 1:1)

4. The Messiah would be the Promised Seed of Isaac.

Prophecy: "But God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed; and you shall call his name Isaac (laughter), and I will establish My covenant or solemn pledge with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his posterity after him" (Genesis 17:19).

...It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned" (Genesis 21: 11 NIV).

Fulfillment: "And Abraham was the father of Isaac..." (Matthew 1:2).

"For Sarah became pregnant and bore Abraham a son in her old age, at the set time God had told him" (Genesis 21:2).

5. The Messiah would be the Promised Seed of Jacob.

Prophecy: "I see Him but He is not now; I behold Him, but He is not near; a star shall come forth out of Jacob, and a scepter shall arise out of Israel and shall crush all the corners of Moab, and break down all the sons of Sheth (Moab's sons of tumult)" (Numbers 24:17).

Fulfillment: "And Isaac begat Jacob..." (Matthew 1:2)

6. The Messiah would descend from the tribe of Judah.

Prophecy: "The scepter or leadership shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet until Shiloh (the Messiah, the Peaceful One) comes to Whom it belongs, and to Him shall be the obedience of the people" (Genesis 49:10).

"But he chose the tribe of Judah, Mount Zion, which he loved" (Psalm 78: 68 NIV).

Fulfillment: "...which was the son of Judah" (Luke 3:33).

"For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah..." (Hebrews 7:14).

"See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah...has won--has overcome and conquered!" (Revelation 5: 5)

7. The Messiah would descend from David and rule on his throne.

Prophecy: "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; and the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him" (Isaiah 11:1-2 KJV).

"Once for all I have sworn by My Holiness that cannot be violated, I will not lie to David: His offspring shall endure forever, and his throne (shall continue) as the sun before Me" (Psalm 89:35-36).

"Of the increase of His government and of peace, there shall be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from that latter time forth, even for evermore. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will perform this" (Isaiah 9:7)

Fulfillment: " A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the Son of David..." (Matthew 1:1).

"The Lord God shall give unto to Him the throne of his father, David" (Luke 1:32 KJV).

"I am the root and the offspring of David" (Revelation 22:16).

8. The Messiah would be born of a Virgin.

Prophecy: "Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign, Behold, the young woman who is unmarried and a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel--God with us (Isaiah 7:14).

Fulfillment: "Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place under these circumstances: When His mother Mary had been promised in marriage to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be pregnant (through the power) of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 1:18).



Places of Jesus the Messiah

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1. The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.

Prophecy: "But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, you are little to be among the clans of Judah, yet out of you shall One come forth for Me Who is to be Ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient days--eternity" (Micah 5:2)

Fulfillment: "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king..." (Matthew 2:1).

2. The Messiah would be born during a time of massacre.

Rachel's name, used in the following prophecy, is naturally associated with Bethlehem, by the fact that her tomb was in that neighborhood.

Prophetic Forecast: "Thus says the Lord: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping; Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are not" (Jeremiah 31: 15).

Fulfillment: "Then Herod, when he realized that he had been misled by the wise men, was furiously enraged, and he sent and put to death all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that territory who were two years old or under, reckoning according to the date which he had investigated diligently and learned exactly from the wise men" (Matthew 2:16).

3. The Messiah would come forth from Egypt as a child.

Prophecy: "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt" (Hosea 11:1).

Fulfillment: "And having risen, he took the Child and His mother by night and withdrew to Egypt, and remained there until Herod's death. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, Out of Egypt have I called My Son" (Matthew 2:14-15).

4. The Messiah would be called a "Nazarene."

When Isaiah spoke of Jesus as "the Branch," he used the word "Neh-tzer, meaning "the separated one" or "the Nazarene."

Prophecy: "And there shall come forth a Shoot out of the stock of Jesse (David's father), and a Branch out of his roots shall grow and bear fruit" (Isaiah 11:1)

Fulfillment: "He went and dwelt in a town called Nazareth, so that what was spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled , He shall be called a Nazarene (meaning Branch, Separated One)" (Matthew 2:23).

5. The Messiah would have a forerunner go before Him.

Prophecy: "A voice of one who cries, Prepare in the wilderness the way of the Lord--clear away the obstacles--make straight and smooth in the desert a highway for our God" (Isaiah 40:3).

"Behold, I send my messenger and he shall prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, the Messiah, Whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; the Messenger or Angel of the covenant Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts" (Malachi 3:1).

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes" (Malachi 4:5).

Fulfillment: "In those days there appeared John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness (desert) of Judea, and saying, Repent--that is, think differently; change your mind, regretting your sins and changing your conduct--for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. This is he who was mentioned by the prophet Isaiah when he said, The voice of one crying in the wilderness--shouting in the desert: Prepare the road for the Lord; make His highways straight (level, direct)" (Matthew 3:1-3).

"He said, I am the voice of one crying aloud in the wilderness..." (John 1:23).

"This is he concerning whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before Your face, who shall make ready Your way before You" (Luke 7:27).

6. The Messiah would begin His ministry in Galilee.

Prophecy: "In the former time, the Lord brought into contempt the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the latter time He will make it glorious, by the way of the sea of Galilee, the land beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations. The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in the land of intense darkness and the shadow of death, upon them has the light shined" (Isaiah 9:1b-2).

Fulfillment: "(Jesus) withdrew into Galilee. And leaving Nazareth He went and dwelt in Capernaum by the sea, in the country of Zebulun and Naphtali, that what was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah might be brought to pass" (Matthew 4:12b-14).





Ministry of Jesus the Messiah



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1. The Messiah would bring salvation for both Jews and Gentiles.

Prophecy: Jews: "My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their resting place" (Jeremiah 50:6 KJV)

Fulfillment: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24 KJV).

Prophecy: Gentiles: "Behold My Servant, Whom I uphold; My elect, in Whom My soul delights! I have put My spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice, and right, and reveal truth to the nations" (Isaiah 42:1).

Fulfillment: "And in and on His name will the Gentiles--the peoples outside of Israel--set their hopes" (Matthew 12:21).

2. The Holy Spirit would rest upon the Messiah.

Prophecy: "And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the reverential and obedient fear of the Lord" (Isaiah 11:2).

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me..." (Isaiah 61:1).

Fulfillment: "And when Jesus was baptized...the heavens were opened and he (John) saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on Him" (Matthew 3:16).

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me..." (Luke 4:18).

3. The Messiah would be a prophet.

Prophecy: "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet from the midst of your brethren, like me (Moses); to him shall you listen: (Deuteronomy 18:15).

Fulfillment: "Jesus said to them, A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house" (Matthew 13:57b).

4. The Messiah would proclaim God's messages.

Prophecy: "Then said I, Lo, I come; in the volume of the book it is written of me...I have proclaimed glad tidings of righteousness in the great assembly--tidings of uprightness and right standing with God. Lo, I have not restrained my lips, as You know, O Lord" (Psalm 40:7,9).

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord has anointed and qualified me to preach the Gospel of good tidings to the meek, the poor and afflicted..." (Isaiah 61:1a).

Fulfillment: "And there was handed to Him (the roll of) the book of the prophet Isaiah. He opened (unrolled) the book, and found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord (is) upon Me, because He has anointed Me (the Anointed One, the Messiah) to preach the good news (the Gospel) to the poor; he has sent me to announce release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind; to send forth delivered those who are oppressed--who are downtrodden, bruised, crushed, and broken by calamity; To proclaim the accepted and acceptable year of the Lord--the day when salvation and the free favors of God profusely abound. The He rolled up the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were gazing (attentively) at Him. And He began to speak to them: Today this Scripture has been fulfilled while you are present and hearing" (Luke 4:17-21).

"Soon afterward (Jesus) went on through towns and villages, preaching and bringing the good news (the Gospel) of the kingdom of God" (Luke 8:1a).

5. The Messiah would be a teacher.

Prophecy: "The Sovereign Lord has given me an instructed tongue to know the word that sustains the weary. He wakens me morning by morning, wakens my ear to listen like one being taught" (Isaiah 50:4, NIV).

"Behold, God exalts and does loftily in His power; who is ruler or a teacher like Him?" (Job 36:22).

Fulfillment: "And all...marveled at the words of grace that came forth from His mouth" (Luke 4:22).

"Rabbi, we know and are certain that You are come from God as a Teacher" (John 3:2).

"Early in the morning (at dawn), He came back into the temple court and the people came to Him in crowds. He sat down and was teaching them" (John 8:2).

6. The Messiah would teach in parables.

Prophecy: "I will open my mouth in a parable--in instruction by (numerous) examples; I will utter dark sayings of old (that hide important truths)" (Psalm 78:2).

Fulfillment: "And he told them many things in parables--that is, stories by way of illustration..." (Matthew 13:3a).

7. The Messiah would be a miracle-worker.

Prophecy: "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped; then shall the lame man leap like a hart, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing for joy; for waters shall break forth in the wilderness, and streams in the desert" (Isaiah 35:5-6).

Fulfillment: (They) asked Him, are You He Who was to come, or should we keep on expecting a different one? And Jesus replied to them, Go and report to John what you hear and see: The blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed (by healing), and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news (the Gospel) preached to them" (Matthew 11:3-5).

8. The Messiah would bear our grief and sorrows.

Prophecy: "Surely He has borne our griefs--sickness, weakness, and distress--and carried our sorrows and pain (of punishment). Yet we ignorantly considered Him stricken, smitten and afflicted by God (as if with leprosy). But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement needful to obtain peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes that wounded Him we are healed and made whole" (Isaiah 53:4-5).

Fulfillment: "When evening came, they brought to Him many who were under the power of demons, and He drove out the spirits with a word, and restored to health all who were sick; and thus He fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, He Himself took (in order to carry away) our weaknesses and infirmities and bore away our diseases: (Matthew 8:16-17).

9. The Messiah Would be Rejected by His people.

Prophecy: "He was despised and rejected and forsaken by men...He was despised and we did not appreciate His worth or have any esteem for Him" (Isaiah 53:3).

Fulfillment: "He came to that which belonged to Him--to His own (domain, creation, things, world)--and they who were His own did not receive him and did not welcome Him" (John 1:11).

10. The Messiah would suffer greatly.

Prophecy: "A man of sorrows and pains, and acquainted with grief...oppressed and afflicted" (Isaiah 53:3,7)

Fulfillment: "...He began to show grief and distress of mind and was deeply depressed. Then He said to them, My soul is very sad and deeply grieved, so that I am almost dying of sorrow..." (Matthew 26: 37b-38a).

"He must...suffer many things" (Matthew 16:21).

"And He said to them, Thus it is written, that the Christ, the Messiah, should suffer..." (Luke 24:46).

"Although He was a Son, He learned (active, special) obedience through what He suffered" (Hebrews 5:8).

11. The Messiah would be an Intercessor.

Prophecy: "He...makes intercession for the transgressors--the rebellious" (Isaiah 53:12b).

Fulfillment: "He went up into a mountain to pray, and spent the whole night in prayer to God" (Luke 6:12).

"In the days of His flesh (Jesus) offered up definite, special petitions...with strong crying and tears, to Him Who was (always) able to save Him (out) from death, and He was heard because of His reverence toward God--His godly fear, His piety (that is, in that He shrank from the horrors of separation from the bright presence of the Father) (Hebrews 5:7).

"He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them" (Hebrews 7:25b).

12. The Messiah would be praised while riding the colt of a donkey.

Prophecy: "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Lo, your King comes to you; He is (uncompromisingly) just, and having salvation--triumphant and victorious; patient, meek, lowly, and riding on a donkey, upon a colt, the foal of a donkey" (Zechariah 9:9).

Fulfillment: "The next day a vast crowd of those who had come to the Passover Feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him. And as they went, they kept shouting, Hosanna! Blessed is He and praise to Him Who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel! And Jesus, having found a young donkey, rode upon it (just) as it is written in the Scriptures, Do not fear, O daughter of Zion! Look! Your King is coming, sitting on a donkey's colt" (John 12:12-15).





Death of Jesus the Messiah



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Of the earthly life of Christ, there are more prophecies concerning His death than any other subject. His substitutionary death was the main purpose for His time on earth. For this reason, the prophets of old were prophetically shown great details involving the suffering of the Messiah, so that the specific ways in which they were fulfilled could not be denied.

1. The Messiah would be betrayed by a friend.

Prophecy: "Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted (relied on and was confident), who ate of my bread, has lifted up his heel against me" (Psalm 41:9).

"For it is not an enemy who reproaches and taunts me; then I might bear it...But it was you, a man my equal, my companion and my familiar friend; we had sweet fellowship together, and used to walk to the house of God in company" (Psalm 55:12-14).

Fulfillment: "He replied, He who has just dipped his hand in the same dish with Me will betray Me!" (Matthew 26:21).

"...But it is that the scripture may be fulfilled, he who eats (his) bread with Me has raised up his heel against Me...After Jesus had said these things, He was troubled (disturbed, agitated) in spirit, and said, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you that one of you will deliver Me up--be false to me and betray Me!" (John 13:18,21).

2. The Messiah would be sold for thirty pieces of silver.

Prophecy: "...So they weighed out for my price thirty pieces of silver" (Zechariah 11:12b).

Fulfillment: "And said, What are you willing to give me if I hand Him over to you? And they weighed out and paid him thirty pieces of silver" (Matthew 26:15).

3. The thirty pieces of silver would be returned for a potter's field.

Prophecy: "And the Lord said to me, Cast it to the potter (as if He said, To the dogs!), the munificently miserable sum at which I (and My shepherd) am priced by them! And I (Zechariah) took the thirty pieces of silver and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord" (Zechariah 11:13).

Fulfillment: "And casting the pieces of silver (forward) into the holy place of the sanctuary of the temple, he (Judas) departed and went off and he hanged himself. But the chief priests, picking up the pieces of silver, said, It is not legal to put these in the (consecrated) treasury, for it is the price of blood. So after consultation they bought with them the potter's field in which to bury strangers" (Matthew 27:5-7).

4. The Messiah would be forsaken by His disciples.

Prophecy: "Smite the Shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered..." (Zechariah 13:7a).

Fulfillment: "And Jesus said to them, You will all fall away this night--(that is,) you will be caused to stumble and will begin to distrust and desert Me; for it stands written, I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered" (Mark 14: 27).

5. The Messiah would be accused by false witnesses.

Prophecy: "Malicious and unrighteous witnesses rise up; they ask me of things that I know not" (Psalm 35:11).

"For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of deceit are opened against me, they have spoken to me and against me with a lying tongue" (Psalm 109:2).

Fulfillment: "Now the chief priests and the whole council (the Sanhedrin) sought to get false witnesses to testify against Jesus..." (Matthew 26:59a).

6. The Messiah would be silent before his accusers.

Prophecy: "He was oppressed, yet when He was afflicted He was submissive and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not His mouth" (Isaiah 53:7).

"But I, like a deaf man, hear not; and I am like a dumb man who opens not his mouth. Yes, I have become like a man who hears not, in whose mouth are no arguments or replies" (Psalm 38:13-14).

Fulfillment: "But when the charges were made against Him by the chief priests and the elders, he made no answer...He made no reply to him, not even to a single accusation, so that the governor marveled greatly..." (Matthew 27:2,14).

"When He was reviled and insulted, He did not revile or offer insult in return; (when) He was abused and suffered, He made no threats of (vengeance); but He trusted (Himself and everything) to Him who judges fairly" (1 Peter 2:23).

7. The Messiah would be smitten across the face.

Prophecy: "Smite the Shepherd..." (Zechariah 13:7).



"They shall smite the ruler of Israel with a rod--a scepter--on the cheek" (Micah 5:1).

Fulfillment: "And they took the reed-staff and struck Him on the head" (Matthew 27:30).

"Then they...struck Him with their fists; and some slapped Him in the face" (Matthew 26:67).

8. The Messiah would be spat upon.

Prophecy: "I gave My...cheeks to those who plucked off the hair; I hid not my face from shame and spitting" (Isaiah 50:6).

Fulfillment: "Then they spat in his face, and struck him with their fists; and some slapped Him in the face, Saying, Prophesy to us, You Christ, the Messiah! Who was it that struck you?" (Matthew 26:67-68).

"And they spat on Him" (Matthew 27:30).

9. The Messiah would be whipped on the back.

Prophecy: "I gave My back to the smiters..." (Isaiah 50:6)

Fulfillment: "So Pilate, wishing to satisfy the crowd, set Barabbas free for them; and after having whipped Jesus, he handed (Him) over to be crucified" (Mark 15:15).

10. The Messiah's body would be disfigured.

Prophecy: "(For many, the Servant of God became an object of horror; many were astonished.) His face and His whole appearance were marred more than any man's, and His form beyond that of the sons of men" (Isaiah 52:14).

Fulfillment: This above verse gives us a picture of what Jesus must have looked like before He was nailed to the cross, as well as during His time on the cross when His bones became out of joint. The following excerpt is taken from "All the Messianic Prophecies of the Bible" by Herbert Lockyer (Zondervan):

"His bruised and swollen face the smiting with the reed produced must have looked more terrible when, after the crown of thorns had been pressed onto His forehead, the oozing blood made Him a pitiable sight to behold, blindfolded as he was (Luke 22:64)."



11. The Messiah Would be Pierced in His Hands and Feet.

Written a thousand years before Christ was born, Psalm 22 reveals the manner of death the Messiah would die. David had never heard of crucifixion, as it was not a practice in Israel at that time. Nevertheless, David writes of piercing the hands and feet, the bones out of joint, the terrible thirst, the body openly displayed, and many other aspects of the crucifixion that Jesus would suffer.

Prophecy: "For (like a pack of dogs) they have encompassed me; a company of evildoers has encircled me, they pierced my hands and my feet" (Psalm 22:16).

Fulfillment: "Then He said to Thomas, Reach out your finger here and see My hands; and put out your hand and place (it) in my side" (John 20:27).

12. The Messiah's body would be pierced.

Prophecy: "...And they shall look (earnestly) upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him as one mourns for His only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him as one who is in bitterness for his first-born" (Zechariah 12:10b).

Fulfillment: "But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear..." (John 19:34).

"And again, another Scripture says, They shall look upon Him whom they have pierced" (John 19:37).

13. The Messiah would be killed alongside the guilty.

Prophecy: "And they assigned him a grave with the wicked...and He let Himself be regarded as a criminal and be numbered with the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:9a,12b).

Fulfillment: "And with him they crucified two robbers, one on (His) right hand and one His left. And the scripture was fulfilled which says, He was counted among the transgressors" (Mark 15:27-28).

14. The Messiah would pray for His persecutors.

Prophecy: "He...made intercession for the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12).

"In return for my love they are my adversaries; but I resort to prayer" (Psalm 109:4).

Fulfillment: "And Jesus prayed, Father forgive them for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).

15. The Messiah would be the object of ridicule.

Prophecy: "I am also become a taunt and a reproach to others; when they see me they shake their heads" (Psalm 109: 25).

"All who see me laugh at me and mock me; they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying, he trusted and rolled himself on the Lord, that He would deliver him. Let Him deliver him, seeing He delights in him!" (Psalm 22: 7-8).

"As with a sword (crushing) in my bones, my enemies taunt and reproach me; while they say continually to me, Where is your God?" (Psalm 42:10).

"He said to them, You will doubtless quote to me this proverb, Physician, heal Yourself!" (Luke 4: 23a).

Fulfillment: "And those who passed by spoke reproachfully and abusively and jeered at Him, wagging their heads" (Matthew 27:39).

"In the same way the chief priests with the scribes and elders made sport of Him saying,...He trusts in God; let God deliver Him now, if He cares for Him and will (have Him), for He said, I am the son of God" (Matthew 27:41,43).

"And those who passed by kept reviling Him and reproaching Him abusively in harsh and insolent language, wagging their heads and saying, Aha! You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days, now rescue Yourself (from death) coming down from the cross. So also the chief priests with the scribes made sport of Him to one another, saying, He rescued others (from death); Himself He is unable to rescue" (Mark 15:29-31).

"Those who were crucified with Him also reviled and reproached Him--speaking abusively, harshly, and insolently" (Mark 15:32).

"...The rulers scoffed and sneered (turned up their noses) at Him, saying, He rescued others (from death), let Him now rescue Himself, if He is the Christ, the Messiah of God, His Chosen One! The soldiers also ridiculed and made sport of Him..." (Luke 23:35,36a).

16. The Garments of the Messiah were to be gambled for.

Contrary to popular paintings depicting Jesus wearing a loincloth as He hung on the cross, He most likely hung there absolutely naked, as the soldiers gambled for His inner and outer garments beneath the cross. This exquisite detail of David's prophecy is a highlight of the amazing accuracy of his prophetic picture of the crucifixion scene in Psalm 22.

Prophecy: "They part my clothing among them, and cast lots from my raiment (a long shirt-like garment, a seamless undertunic)" (Psalm 22:18).

Fulfillment: "...Then the soldiers when they had crucified Jesus took His garments and made four parts, one share for each soldier, and also the tunic (the long shirt-like undergarment). But the tunic was seamless, woven from top to bottom throughout. So they said to one another, Let us not tear it, but let us cast lots to decide whose it shall be. This was to fulfill the Scripture, They parted My garments among them and for My clothing they cast lots. So the soldiers did these things" (John 19: 23-24).

17. The Messiah would be publicly gazed and gaped at.

Prophecy: "I can count all my bones; (the evildoers) gaze at me" (Psalm 22:17).

"...just as many were astonished at Him..." (Isaiah 52:14b).

Fulfillment: "Then they sat down there and kept watch over Him" (Matthew 27:36).

"Now the people stood by, (calmly and leisurely) watching" (Luke 23:35a).

18. The Messiah would be deserted by God.

The face of God was turned--not so much from His Only Begotten Son in Whom He delighted, but in all the sin of all humanity who has ever lived, piled up on one Person. He literally took our sin and made it His sin. He totally identified with it, and took all upon Himself, as if He, Himself was the one who did it. All of the world's rebellion, arrogance, cowardliness, hatred, and hypocrisy were piled on Him. The sight was so filthy that God turned His head away. Surely this was the pinnacle of the suffering which Jesus endured on the cross.

Prophecy: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Psalm 22:1).

Fulfillment: "Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me?" (Matthew 27:46).

19. The Messiah would agonize with thirst.

Prophecy: "(With thirst) my tongue cleaves to my jaws" (Psalm 22:15).

"They also gave me gall (poisonous and bitter) for my food, and in my thirst they gave me vinegar (a soured wine) to drink" (Psalm 69: 21).

"My throat is parched" (Psalm 69: 3).

Fulfillment: "After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished (ended), said in fulfillment of the Scripture, I thirst" (John 19: 28).

"They offered Him wine mingled with gall to drink, but when He tasted it, He refused to drink it" (Matthew 27: 3 ,4).

"And one of them immediately ran and took a sponge, soaked it with vinegar (a sour wine), and put it on a reedstaff and was about to give it to Him to drink" (Matthew 27:48).

20. The Messiah would commit His Spirit to God.

Prophecy: "Into Your hand I commit my spirit;" (Psalm 31:5).

Fulfillment: "And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit! And with these words, He expired" (Luke 23:46).

21. The Messiah's friends would stand far off.

Prophecy: "My lovers and my friends stand aloof from my plague; and my neighbors and my near ones stand afar off" (Psalm 38:11).

"You have put my (familiar) friends far from me; You have made me an abomination to them. I am shut up and cannot come forth" (Psalm 87:8).

Fulfillment: "And all the acquaintances of (Jesus) and the women who had followed Him from Galilee stood at a distance and watched these things" (Luke 23:49).

22. The Messiah's bones would not be broken.

This symbolic prophecy likens Jesus to the Passover Lamb of Exodus. This lamb was to be "without blemish," "a male," and without any bones broken. After being slaughtered, it's blood was to be applied to the doorposts of the houses of the Israelites, to prevent the destroyer from killing their firstborn.

Today, the blood of Jesus does for us, what the blood of the passover lamb foreshadowed. As we apply His blood to our "forehead" and "hands" (the top and sides of the door posts) we also, are protected from the Destroyer, and from the Second Death.

Prophecy: "...Neither shall you break a bone of it" (Exodus 12: 46).

"They shall leave none of it until the morning, nor break any bone of it; according to all the statute for the passover they shall keep it" (Numbers 9:12).

Fulfillment: "But when they came to Jesus, and they saw that he was already dead, they did not break His legs...For these things took place that the Scripture might be fulfilled (verified, carried out) Not one of His bones shall be broken" (John 19: 33,36).

23. The state of the Messiah's heart.

"Jesus literally died of a broken heart. Not only was it punctured by the soldier's sword thrust, but the extreme mental and spiritual torture was so great that His heart was ruptured before the point of the sword pierced it. Appearance of the blood and water indicated that the lymphatic fluid apparently had separated from the red blood, producing 'blood and water.'" (From "All The Messianic Prophecies of the Bible" by Herbert Lockyer, Zondervan, page 156).

Prophecy: "I am poured out like water...my heart is like wax, it is softened (with anguish), and melted down within me" (Psalm 22:14).

Fulfillment: "But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came (flowed) out of it" (John 19:34).

"This is He who came by (with) water and blood..." (1 John 5:6).

24. The Messiah would be hid from a gaping crowd by darkness.

Prophecy: "And in that day, says the Lord God, I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the broad daylight time" (Amos 8:9).

Fulfillment: "Now from the sixth hour (noon) there was darkness over the all the land until the ninth hour (three o'clock)" (Matthew 27:45).

25. The Messiah would be buried with the rich.

Normally, the Roman custom was to throw the corpses of the crucified to wild roaming dogs. However, the body of Jesus was spared this fate, as one of His secret disciples, wealthy Joseph of Arimathea received special permission to bury his body in his own tomb.

Prophecy: "And they assigned Him a grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in His death..." (Isaiah 53:9).

Fulfillment: "When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who was also a disciple of Jesus. He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus, and Pilate ordered that it be given him. And Joseph took the body and rolled it up in a clean linen cloth used for swathing dead bodies, and laid it in his own fresh (undefiled) tomb, which he had hewn in the rock; and he rolled a big boulder over the door and went away (Matthew 27:57-60).

26. The Messiah would die a voluntary, substitutionary death.

Prophecy: "...He poured out His life unto death, and He let Himself be regarded as a criminal and be numbered with the transgressors, yet he bore (and took away) the sin of many...(Isaiah 53:12b).

"But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement needful to obtain peace and well being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes that wounded Him we are healed and made whole....All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light on Him the guilt and iniquity of us all...My Servant (shall) justify and make many righteous--upright and in right standing with God; for He shall bear their iniquities and their guilt (with the consequences, says the Lord)" (Isaiah 53:5,6,11).

"I gave My back to the smiters, and my cheeks to those who plucked off the hair; I hid not my face from shame and spitting" (Isaiah 50:6).

Fulfillment: "I am the Good Shepherd. The good shepherd risks and lays down his (own) life for the sheep" (John 10:11).

"..I lay down My own life to take it back again. No one takes it away from Me. On the contrary, I lay it down voluntarily" (John 10: 8).

"Just as the Son of man came not to be waited on but to serve, and give his life as a ransom for many--the price paid to set them free" (Matthew 20:28).

"He personally bore our sins in His (own) body to the tree (as to an alter and offered Himself on it), that we might die (cease to exist) to sin and live to righteousness. By His wounds you have been healed" (1 Peter 2:24).



Resurrection of Jesus the Messiah



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"Why should it be thought incredible by any of you that God raises the dead?" --The Apostle Paul (Acts 26:8).

In spite of all the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled concerning Himself, it would matter little if He was not raised from the dead, thus conquering death for Himself and all who would follow Him. His resurrection was continually alluded to in the Old Testament, with many "types and shadows," as well as direct prophecies.

1. The Messiah would not be bound to the power of death.

Prophecy: "For You will not abandon me to Sheol (the place of the dead), neither will You suffer Your holy one to see corruption (Psalm 16:10).

"O Lord, You have brought My life up from Sheol (the place of the dead); You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit (the grave)" (Psalm 30:3).

Fulfillment: "And going to into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting (there) on the right (side), clothed in a (long, stately, sweeping) robe of white, and they were utterly amazed and struck with terror. And he said to them, Do not be amazed and terrified; you are looking for Jesus of Nazareth Who was crucified. He is risen; He is not here. See the place where they laid Him" (Mark 16: 5-6).

"For this reason He says also in another Psalm, You will not allow Your Holy one to see corruption--to undergo putrefaction and dissolution (of the grave)" (Acts 13:35).

2. The Messiah would destroy the power of death for others.

Prophecy: "Your dead shall live, O Lord; the bodies of our dead (saints) shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!" (Isaiah 26:19).

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt and abhorrence" (Daniel 12:2).

"O Death, where are your plagues? O Sheol, where are your destructions?" (Hosea 13:14).

"He will swallow up death in victory--He will abolish death forever; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the reproach of His people He will take away from off all the earth; for the Lord has spoken it" (Isaiah 25:8).

Fulfillment: "Jesus said to her, I am (Myself) the Resurrection and the Life. Whoever believes in--adheres to, trusts in and relies on--Me, although he may die, yet he shall live" (John 11:25).

"(It is that purpose and grace) which He now has made known and has fully disclosed and made real (to us) through the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ Who annulled death and made it of no effect, and brought life and immortality--that is, immunity from eternal death--to light through the Gospel" (2 Timothy 1:10).

"And when this perishable puts on the imperishable and this (that was) capable of dying puts on freedom from death, then shall be fulfilled the Scripture that says, Death is swallowed up (utterly vanquished, forever) in and unto victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" (1 Corinthians 15:54-55).

"...(Jesus) suffered death, in order that by the grace (unmerited favor) of God (to us sinners) He might experience death for every individual person...He (Himself) in a similar manner partook of the same (nature), that by (going through) death He might bring to nought and make of no effect him who had the power of death, that is, the devil; and also that He might deliver and completely set free all those who through the (haunting) fear of death were held in bondage throughout the whole course of their lives" (Hebrews 2:9,14b,15).

3. The Messiah would be raised on the third day.

There is much "third-day" typepology in the Old Testament, that points to the third-day resurrection of the Messiah. Three is the number of divine perfection.

Prophecy: "After two days He will revive us--quicken us, give us life; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before Him" (Hosea 6:2).

"Now the Lord had prepared and appointed a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights" (Jonah 1:17).

"Jesus answered them, Destroy (undo) this temple and in three days I will raise it up again" (John 2: 19).

"For even as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12: 40).

"...they will put Him to death; and when He is killed, after three days He will rise (from death) (Mark 8:31b).

Fulfillment: "But on the first day of the week at early dawn (the women) went to the tomb, taking the spices which they had made ready. And they found the stone rolled back from the tomb. But when they went inside they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. And while they were perplexed and wondering what to do about this, behold, two men in dazzling raiment suddenly stood beside them. And as (the women) were frightened and were bowing their faces to the ground, the men said to them, Why do you look for the living among (those who are) dead? He is not here, but He has risen! Remember how He told you while He was still in Galilee, that the Son of man must be given over into the hands of sinful men (that is, men whose way or nature is to act in opposition to God), and be crucified, and on the third day rise (from death). And they remembered His words, and having returned to the tomb, they reported all these things (taken together) to the eleven apostles and to all the rest" (Luke 24:1-9).

"Then He (thoroughly) opened up their minds to understand the Scriptures, And then He said to them, Thus it is written, that the Christ, the Messiah, should suffer and on the third day rise from (among) the dead" (Luke 24:45-46).

4. The Messiah would ascend to heaven.

Prophecy: "You have ascended on high. You have led away captive a train of vanquished foes;" (Psalm 68:18).

Fulfillment: "So then the Lord Jesus, after He had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and He sat down at the right hand of God" (Mark 16:19).

"And it occurred that while He was blessing them, He parted from them and was taken up into heaven" (Luke 24:51).

"And when He had said this, even as they were looking (at Him), He was caught up, and a cloud received and carried Him away out of their sight" (Acts 1:9).





Future Prophecies Concerning Jesus the Messiah



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The Second Coming of Christ is mentioned some 318 times in the New Testament--more than any other fundamental doctrine! Surely after seeing the deliberate way in which Christ fulfilled every other prophecy concerning Himself, we would be foolish to not believe the prophecies mentioned most about Him--His return to earth! Here are a few of the more prominent ones:

1. Christ will return a second time.

Prophecies: "And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with great (transcendent and overwhelming) power and (all His kingly) glory (majesty and splendor)" (Luke 21:27).

"...Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing into heaven? This same Jesus, Who was caught away and lifted up from among you into heaven will return in (just) the same way in which you saw Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11).

"Lo, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth shall gaze upon Him and beat their breasts and mourn and lament over Him. Even so (must it be). Amen--so be it" (Revelation 1:7).

"For just as the lightening flashes from the east and shines and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of man be...Then they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory--in brilliancy and splendor" (Matthew 24:27,30b).

"I saw in the night visions, and behold, on the clouds of the heavens came one like a Son of man, and He came to the Ancient of days and was presented before Him. And there was given Him (the Messiah,) dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away and His kingdom one which shall not be destroyed" (Daniel 7:13-14).

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God" (1 Thessalonians 4:16a).

2. Christ will return to judge the nations.

Prophecies: "When the Son of man comes in His glory (His majesty and splendor) and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All nations shall be gathered before Him and He will separate them (the people) from one another as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats" (Matthew 25:31-32).

"So do not make any hasty or premature judgments before the time in which the Lord comes (again), for He will both bring to light the secret things that are (now hidden) in darkness, and disclose and expose the (secret) aims (motives and purposes) of hearts. Then every man will receive his (due) commendation from God" (1 Corinthians 4:5).

"Jesus Christ Who is to judge the living and the dead, and by (in the light of) His coming and His kingdom" (2 Timothy 4:1).

"For we must all appear and be revealed as we are before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive (his pay) according to what he has done in the body, whether good or evil (considering what his purpose and motive have been, and what he has achieved, been busy with and given himself and his attention to accomplishing)" (2 Corinthians 5:10).

"Even the Father judges no one; for He has given all judgment--the last judgment and the whole business of judging--entirely in the hands of the Son" (John 5:22).

3. The exact time of His return is unknown.

Prophecies: "But of that (exact) day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, not the Son, but only the Father...You must be ready therefore; for the Son of man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him" (Matthew 24:36,44).

"For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the Lord('s return) will come (as unexpectedly and suddenly) as a thief in the night" (1 Thessalonians 5:2).

"Lo, I am going to come like a thief! Blessed--happy, to be envied--is he who stays awake (alert) and who guards his clothes so that he may not be naked and (have the shame of being) seen exposed!" (Revelation 16:15).

"Watch therefore--give strict attention and be cautious and active--for you know neither the day nor the hour when the Son of man will come" (Matthew 25:13).

4. There will be signs marking the season of His return.

For the sake of brevity, we cannot copy entire chapters of the Bible, but have picked out some of the most pointed references to what must happen before the return of the Lord. There are many others. We encourage you to read the entire chapters of Matthew 24 and 25, as well as the rest of the Bible for a fuller view of the last days.

Prophecies: "Be careful that no one misleads you--deceiving you and leading you into error. For many will come in (on the strength of) My name--appropriating the name which belongs to Me-- saying, I am the Messiah, the Christ; and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in place after place; All this is but the beginning--the early pains of birth pangs--of the intolerable anguish. Then they will hand you over to suffer affliction and tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. And then many will be offended and repelled and begin to distrust and desert (Him Whom they ought to trust and obey) and will stumble and fall away, and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred. And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error. And the love of the great body of people will grow cold, because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end" (Matthew 24:14, emphasis ours).

"For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God's chosen ones)" (Matthew 24:24).

"As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man" (Matthew 24:37).

"Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first--that is, unless the (predicted) great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come--and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom (of perdition), who opposes and exalts himself so proudly and insolently against and over all that is called God or that is worshipped , (even to his actually) taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God" (2 Thessalonians 2: 3-4, emphasis ours).

"But the (Holy) Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach" (1 Timothy 4:1 emphasis ours).

"But understand this, that in the last days there will set in perilous times of great stress and trouble--hard to deal with and hard to bear. For people will be lovers of self and (utterly) self- centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate (greedy) desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemeous, scoffers), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane...They will be lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God. For (although) they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it--their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession" (2 Timothy 3:1, 4-5 emphasis ours)

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, God declares, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all mankind, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy--telling forth the divine counsels-- and your young men shall see visions (that is, divinely granted appearances), and your old men shall dream (divinely suggested) dreams. Yes, and on My menservents and also My maidservents in those days I will pour out of My Spirit, and they shall prophesy--telling forth the divine counsels and predicting future events pertaining especially to God's kingdom. And I will show wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth beneath, blood and fire and smoking vapor; the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the obvious day of the Lord comes, that great and notable and conspicuous and renowned (day)" (Acts 2:17-18 emphasis ours).



"But you are not (given up to the power of) darkness, brethren, for that day to overtake you by surprise like a thief" (1 Thessalonians 5: 4).

"From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its young shoots become soft and tender and it puts out its leaves, you know of a surety that summer is near. So also when you see these signs all taken together coming to pass, you may know of a surety that he is near, at the very doors" (Matthew 24: 32-33 emphasis ours).



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zinkyusa
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The rapture

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naty2005 wrote: [QUOTE=zinkyusa]

Jesus is the Christ the annointed one the messiah the prince of peace the king of kings Lord of Lords the lover of my soul. He was sacrificed for the sins of the whole world that through Him we may have forgiveness for our sins.

He fulfilled all the prophecies concerning him all of them!!!!!

What remains is his coming.


No I don't think that he was. He was a man who lived some 2000 odd years ago and had a very special message. People were not ready to hear his message and killed him. Other people took his message and changed it to suit their own purposes. Christ is the son of God, all of us together. We share a common function of finding our way home to a oneness we made the choice to leave a long long time ago. Jesus was the first one to complete his function and demonstrated the death is not real. This is the true message of the crucifixtion. He can safely be called on as teacher or older brother to help us find our way home, but there are many other teachers as well and many roads to the top of the mountain.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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