William Ess wrote: The question is: what is the point of it? Is there a need to speak in a mysterious language that is not generally understood. God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform but not that mysterious. It smacks of the African savages who prostrated themselves before a tree and declared that it had turned into some sort of God. We onlookers just saw a tree.
I have seen and have been thankful for God's work buit it has nothing to do with the music hall.
LOL William
Obviously there is a point to it to those who do it. If we all had to stop doing what others see no need for us to do, I gather we would be at a standstill. If I found myself in a place where speaking tongues was done and bothered, frightened, whatever, me, I would absent myself and go there no more. I don't think anything else can be done about it. I must do a little searching. I think(not absolutely sure)that speaking tongues sometimes is followed by well being or healing. Not sure of that but there has to be some purpose....there are too many people who are perfecftly sane who do it to pass it off as nonsense. I for one am all for keeping all my doors open so as I don't close out any good stuff.
Speaking in tongue
Speaking in tongue
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Speaking in tongue
William Ess wrote: The question is: what is the point of it? Is there a need to speak in a mysterious language that is not generally understood. God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform but not that mysterious. It smacks of the African savages who prostrated themselves before a tree and declared that it had turned into some sort of God. We onlookers just saw a tree.
I have seen and have been thankful for God's work buit it has nothing to do with the music hall.
I cannot see any reason for being confused reading the following biblical passages. They speak of real languages. To say otherwise would be pushing the limits of credibility.
From Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
I have seen and have been thankful for God's work buit it has nothing to do with the music hall.
I cannot see any reason for being confused reading the following biblical passages. They speak of real languages. To say otherwise would be pushing the limits of credibility.
From Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Speaking in tongue
Atsila wrote: I cannot see any reason for being confused reading the following biblical passages. They speak of real languages. To say otherwise would be pushing the limits of credibility.
From Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
The thing to remember here is that there are 120 disciples all speaking in Tongues can you image a Pole a German a Englishman a greek etc. etc. all speaking at once ! It would sound like gibberish--the thing is they all hear in their own tongue...they could have been saying lah, lah googy bitist etc. etc. BUT those there hear in their own language... I am blessed to have many words in Tongues, and when I am lost for words or just want to worship Him I use this Gift God has granted me
From Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
The thing to remember here is that there are 120 disciples all speaking in Tongues can you image a Pole a German a Englishman a greek etc. etc. all speaking at once ! It would sound like gibberish--the thing is they all hear in their own tongue...they could have been saying lah, lah googy bitist etc. etc. BUT those there hear in their own language... I am blessed to have many words in Tongues, and when I am lost for words or just want to worship Him I use this Gift God has granted me
-
William Ess
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:15 am
Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: The thing to remember here is that there are 120 disciples all speaking in Tongues can you image a Pole a German a Englishman a greek etc. etc. all speaking at once ! It would sound like gibberish--the thing is they all hear in their own tongue...they could have been saying lah, lah googy bitist etc. etc. BUT those there hear in their own language... I am blessed to have many words in Tongues, and when I am lost for words or just want to worship Him I use this Gift God has granted me
No doubt God gave special impetus during the early days in order to get things off the ground and in the instance cited, the gift of tongues had an obvious practical purpose. I am not certain that that applies today: one woman and one interpreter saying somerthing which appeared to be of no especial importance smacks more of the music hall than of serious worship.
The saddening aspects, going off at a tangent for a moment, is the fact that we cannot nowadays communicate widely with people who do not understand English. Up to fifty years ago it was much less of a problem since most educated people were able to converse in Latin which was not only a lingua franca but was a tongue of particular power and elegance.
No doubt God gave special impetus during the early days in order to get things off the ground and in the instance cited, the gift of tongues had an obvious practical purpose. I am not certain that that applies today: one woman and one interpreter saying somerthing which appeared to be of no especial importance smacks more of the music hall than of serious worship.
The saddening aspects, going off at a tangent for a moment, is the fact that we cannot nowadays communicate widely with people who do not understand English. Up to fifty years ago it was much less of a problem since most educated people were able to converse in Latin which was not only a lingua franca but was a tongue of particular power and elegance.
Speaking in tongue
William Ess wrote: No doubt God gave special impetus during the early days in order to get things off the ground and in the instance cited, the gift of tongues had an obvious practical purpose. I am not certain that that applies today: one woman and one interpreter saying somerthing which appeared to be of no especial importance smacks more of the music hall than of serious worship.
The saddening aspects, going off at a tangent for a moment, is the fact that we cannot nowadays communicate widely with people who do not understand English. Up to fifty years ago it was much less of a problem since most educated people were able to converse in Latin which was not only a lingua franca but was a tongue of particular power and elegance.
Hi William, let me address your postion and use other Scriptures. All the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are a SIGN and signs point to things----------> here the Gifts point to the Giver of Life the Messiah Yeshua. The Gifts of the Spirit are for today just as much as yesterday------->
NAS Joel 2:28 "And it will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. 29 "And even on the amale and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. 30 "And I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire, and columns of smoke.
NAS Acts 2:17 a'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams; 18 Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit And they shall prophesy.
Speaking in Tongues and the interpertation = prophecy.
NAS 1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, adistributing to each one individually just as He wills. 12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, bso also is Christ.
Notice Paul does not say the translations of Tongues but the interpertation. What would be supernatural about someone speaking in a known foreign lanaguage ?
Then we have Paul making this statement:
NAS 1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal....
What language do angels speak ?
Then Paul goes on to say:
NAS 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.
If you do a word study on Tongues you will uncover more information
Nevim a bond servant of Yeshua...
The saddening aspects, going off at a tangent for a moment, is the fact that we cannot nowadays communicate widely with people who do not understand English. Up to fifty years ago it was much less of a problem since most educated people were able to converse in Latin which was not only a lingua franca but was a tongue of particular power and elegance.
Hi William, let me address your postion and use other Scriptures. All the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are a SIGN and signs point to things----------> here the Gifts point to the Giver of Life the Messiah Yeshua. The Gifts of the Spirit are for today just as much as yesterday------->
NAS Joel 2:28 "And it will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. 29 "And even on the amale and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. 30 "And I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire, and columns of smoke.
NAS Acts 2:17 a'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams; 18 Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit And they shall prophesy.
Speaking in Tongues and the interpertation = prophecy.
NAS 1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, adistributing to each one individually just as He wills. 12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, bso also is Christ.
Notice Paul does not say the translations of Tongues but the interpertation. What would be supernatural about someone speaking in a known foreign lanaguage ?
Then we have Paul making this statement:
NAS 1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal....
What language do angels speak ?
Then Paul goes on to say:
NAS 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.
If you do a word study on Tongues you will uncover more information
Nevim a bond servant of Yeshua...
Speaking in tongue
I can agree with the idea that without love one becomes a noisy gong. The lack of love can and does show through what some people say and how they treat others.
An interesting thought about prophesy. According to B. W. Anderson in his book "Understanding the Old Testament", and supported by many others prophesy is not about some distant date in the future but about the prophet's own time. They were speaking out and calling the chosen people to return to their faith in God. For instance Isaiah was talking about events in his own day and not about the birth of the Messiah. In fact there are known to be three Isaiahs and not just one. In fact some prophesy was written after the fact.
Shalom
Ted:-6
An interesting thought about prophesy. According to B. W. Anderson in his book "Understanding the Old Testament", and supported by many others prophesy is not about some distant date in the future but about the prophet's own time. They were speaking out and calling the chosen people to return to their faith in God. For instance Isaiah was talking about events in his own day and not about the birth of the Messiah. In fact there are known to be three Isaiahs and not just one. In fact some prophesy was written after the fact.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
William Ess
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:15 am
Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: Hi William, let me address your postion and use other Scriptures. All the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are a SIGN and signs point to things----------> here the Gifts point to the Giver of Life the Messiah Yeshua. The Gifts of the Spirit are for today just as much as yesterday------->
NAS Joel 2:28 "And it will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. 29 "And even on the amale and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. 30 "And I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire, and columns of smoke.
NAS Acts 2:17 a'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams; 18 Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit And they shall prophesy.
Speaking in Tongues and the interpertation = prophecy.
NAS 1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, adistributing to each one individually just as He wills. 12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, bso also is Christ.
Notice Paul does not say the translations of Tongues but the interpertation. What would be supernatural about someone speaking in a known foreign lanaguage ?
Then we have Paul making this statement:
NAS 1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal....
What language do angels speak ?
Then Paul goes on to say:
NAS 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.
If you do a word study on Tongues you will uncover more information
Nevim a bond servant of Yeshua...
If nothing else, this tends to reinforce my assertion that the interpretation of the Bible is best left to those academically qualified to do the task.
NAS Joel 2:28 "And it will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. 29 "And even on the amale and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. 30 "And I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire, and columns of smoke.
NAS Acts 2:17 a'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams; 18 Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit And they shall prophesy.
Speaking in Tongues and the interpertation = prophecy.
NAS 1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, adistributing to each one individually just as He wills. 12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, bso also is Christ.
Notice Paul does not say the translations of Tongues but the interpertation. What would be supernatural about someone speaking in a known foreign lanaguage ?
Then we have Paul making this statement:
NAS 1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal....
What language do angels speak ?
Then Paul goes on to say:
NAS 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.
If you do a word study on Tongues you will uncover more information
Nevim a bond servant of Yeshua...
If nothing else, this tends to reinforce my assertion that the interpretation of the Bible is best left to those academically qualified to do the task.
-
William Ess
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:15 am
Speaking in tongue
Ted wrote: I can agree with the idea that without love one becomes a noisy gong. The lack of love can and does show through what some people say and how they treat others.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I am not sure what you mean by this. The word 'love' has become rather debased in recent times but its general sense, unless qualified by a romantic inference, it meant 'respect'. To 'love the Lord thy God' is rather meaningless to most listeners but if it is converted to 'respect the Lord thy God', the intention becomes much clearer. Similarly, when Edward VI instructed Gloucester to 'love my queen', he was not thinking of adultery. He was ordering Gloucester to respect the Queen. The idea of love meaning nothing more than a strong form of affection is a recent one.
Thus the pitfall of messing about with vocabulary.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I am not sure what you mean by this. The word 'love' has become rather debased in recent times but its general sense, unless qualified by a romantic inference, it meant 'respect'. To 'love the Lord thy God' is rather meaningless to most listeners but if it is converted to 'respect the Lord thy God', the intention becomes much clearer. Similarly, when Edward VI instructed Gloucester to 'love my queen', he was not thinking of adultery. He was ordering Gloucester to respect the Queen. The idea of love meaning nothing more than a strong form of affection is a recent one.
Thus the pitfall of messing about with vocabulary.
Speaking in tongue
William:-6
If we look to NT Greek we find there are three words used for love; transliterated is eros=romantic or sexual love, phileo=the love between brothers or family or friends and has not sexual implications, and agape=the unconditional love that God has for his people. Whenever the Bible speaks of love for ones neighbour or God it speaks of unconditional love.
There is a hymn which goes thus "They shall know we are Christians by our love, (agape) is the intent.
When Jesus says we are to love our enemies the word 'agape' is used. I see nothing complex about that.
Thus if we want to check on someones depth of faith "they will know we are Christians by our love." This does not mean that you have to agree but it does mean that you have to show respect as unconditional love. Name calling or put downs as such then do not reflect true Christian love.
Damned difficult to follow but we must keep trying even if at times we fail.
Shalom
Ted:-6
If we look to NT Greek we find there are three words used for love; transliterated is eros=romantic or sexual love, phileo=the love between brothers or family or friends and has not sexual implications, and agape=the unconditional love that God has for his people. Whenever the Bible speaks of love for ones neighbour or God it speaks of unconditional love.
There is a hymn which goes thus "They shall know we are Christians by our love, (agape) is the intent.
When Jesus says we are to love our enemies the word 'agape' is used. I see nothing complex about that.
Thus if we want to check on someones depth of faith "they will know we are Christians by our love." This does not mean that you have to agree but it does mean that you have to show respect as unconditional love. Name calling or put downs as such then do not reflect true Christian love.
Damned difficult to follow but we must keep trying even if at times we fail.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
Atsila wrote: I cannot see any reason for being confused reading the following biblical passages. They speak of real languages. To say otherwise would be pushing the limits of credibility.
From Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
This is a million miles away from someone speaking gibberish no-one else understand that has to be "interpreted" for the assembled people.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand.
From Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
This is a million miles away from someone speaking gibberish no-one else understand that has to be "interpreted" for the assembled people.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand.
-
William Ess
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:15 am
Speaking in tongue
Ted wrote: William:-6
If we look to NT Greek we find there are three words used for love; transliterated is eros=romantic or sexual love, phileo=the love between brothers or family or friends and has not sexual implications, and agape=the unconditional love that God has for his people. Whenever the Bible speaks of love for ones neighbour or God it speaks of unconditional love.
There is a hymn which goes thus "They shall know we are Christians by our love, (agape) is the intent.
When Jesus says we are to love our enemies the word 'agape' is used. I see nothing complex about that.
Thus if we want to check on someones depth of faith "they will know we are Christians by our love." This does not mean that you have to agree but it does mean that you have to show respect as unconditional love. Name calling or put downs as such then do not reflect true Christian love.
Damned difficult to follow but we must keep trying even if at times we fail.
Shalom
Ted:-6
If I remember my classical days correctly, the Greeks had seven meanings for the word 'love'. When using the term, it has to make sense within the context.
If we look to NT Greek we find there are three words used for love; transliterated is eros=romantic or sexual love, phileo=the love between brothers or family or friends and has not sexual implications, and agape=the unconditional love that God has for his people. Whenever the Bible speaks of love for ones neighbour or God it speaks of unconditional love.
There is a hymn which goes thus "They shall know we are Christians by our love, (agape) is the intent.
When Jesus says we are to love our enemies the word 'agape' is used. I see nothing complex about that.
Thus if we want to check on someones depth of faith "they will know we are Christians by our love." This does not mean that you have to agree but it does mean that you have to show respect as unconditional love. Name calling or put downs as such then do not reflect true Christian love.
Damned difficult to follow but we must keep trying even if at times we fail.
Shalom
Ted:-6
If I remember my classical days correctly, the Greeks had seven meanings for the word 'love'. When using the term, it has to make sense within the context.
-
William Ess
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:15 am
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr wrote: This is a million miles away from someone speaking gibberish no-one else understand that has to be "interpreted" for the assembled people.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand.
On the whole, I agree.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand.
On the whole, I agree.
Speaking in tongue
William:-6
I am not talking about classical Greek. I am talking about what I know and that is NT Greek. I have not heard of 7 as far as the NT goes. I have never seen it in any NT lexicon.
Of course context influences the meaning. However, if the word is specifically annotated such as agape it has only one meaning. Our reaction, though, could be influenced by the context in which events are happeing just as in the same way morality can so be influenced.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I am not talking about classical Greek. I am talking about what I know and that is NT Greek. I have not heard of 7 as far as the NT goes. I have never seen it in any NT lexicon.
Of course context influences the meaning. However, if the word is specifically annotated such as agape it has only one meaning. Our reaction, though, could be influenced by the context in which events are happeing just as in the same way morality can so be influenced.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr wrote: This is a million miles away from someone speaking gibberish no-one else understand that has to be "interpreted" for the assembled people.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand.
Absoluetly not.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand.
Absoluetly not.
Speaking in tongue
William Ess wrote: If nothing else, this tends to reinforce my assertion that the interpretation of the Bible is best left to those academically qualified to do the task.
I disagree, I should put my trust in someone I don't know from Adam, or; whether or not he is even a Christian and filled with the Spirit..no way.
I disagree, I should put my trust in someone I don't know from Adam, or; whether or not he is even a Christian and filled with the Spirit..no way.
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr wrote: This is a million miles away from someone speaking gibberish no-one else understand that has to be "interpreted" for the assembled people.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand.
I'm pasting my earlier post to make a point. I'll make it below.
Speaking in tongues is so controversial I don’t know if I really want to weigh in. It is also so interesting I can’t help myself.
The first thing that comes to mind is 1 Corinthians 14:39 where after extensive teaching about speaking in tongues with its pitfalls and blessing Paul says; “Wherefore brethren covet to prophesy and forbid not to speak in tonguesâ€.
I kept the gift of tongues at arms length for many years until I was faced with proof it is real. I was delivering the message and an elder was doing the liturgy. At the close of the liturgy a woman stood up and spoke in tongues. The elder said. “is there an interpretationâ€â€¦no one responded…again… “ is there an interpretationâ€â€¦still no response. He said “if this isn’t out of order there needs to be an interpretationâ€â€¦still no response. He nodded to me and I began delivering the message. Another woman signaled the elder as he walked away and he went to her. I saw her give him something. After the service the elder gave me a 3X5 card. On the card was written an apology from the second woman for not responding to the Spirit to give the interpretation. On the other side of the card was written words that could have passed for a brief outline of the message I had just delivered…only they were written before I delivered it.
I forbid not to speak in tongues.
This may have been a known language but it wasn't known to me. If it wasn't a known language it still had value. If the interpretation had happened at the time the tongue was spoken it may have had value but not as much as it did by the way it happened. The way it happened, it sent a clear message to us that God's Spirit was present and it validated the message I had been given for that time. The message was about not having fear because God's presence is real in our lives and His plan is being worked out even when we have doubts and fears.
I beleive the Acts account of tongues does indeed tell of the use of known languages. When I read other accounts I have to accept the possibility that not all tongues spoken are known tongues. I think it would be impossible to make an absolute claim that all tongues spoken are known by men. In the kingdom of God there are many things we don't know.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand.
I'm pasting my earlier post to make a point. I'll make it below.
Speaking in tongues is so controversial I don’t know if I really want to weigh in. It is also so interesting I can’t help myself.
The first thing that comes to mind is 1 Corinthians 14:39 where after extensive teaching about speaking in tongues with its pitfalls and blessing Paul says; “Wherefore brethren covet to prophesy and forbid not to speak in tonguesâ€.
I kept the gift of tongues at arms length for many years until I was faced with proof it is real. I was delivering the message and an elder was doing the liturgy. At the close of the liturgy a woman stood up and spoke in tongues. The elder said. “is there an interpretationâ€â€¦no one responded…again… “ is there an interpretationâ€â€¦still no response. He said “if this isn’t out of order there needs to be an interpretationâ€â€¦still no response. He nodded to me and I began delivering the message. Another woman signaled the elder as he walked away and he went to her. I saw her give him something. After the service the elder gave me a 3X5 card. On the card was written an apology from the second woman for not responding to the Spirit to give the interpretation. On the other side of the card was written words that could have passed for a brief outline of the message I had just delivered…only they were written before I delivered it.
I forbid not to speak in tongues.
This may have been a known language but it wasn't known to me. If it wasn't a known language it still had value. If the interpretation had happened at the time the tongue was spoken it may have had value but not as much as it did by the way it happened. The way it happened, it sent a clear message to us that God's Spirit was present and it validated the message I had been given for that time. The message was about not having fear because God's presence is real in our lives and His plan is being worked out even when we have doubts and fears.
I beleive the Acts account of tongues does indeed tell of the use of known languages. When I read other accounts I have to accept the possibility that not all tongues spoken are known tongues. I think it would be impossible to make an absolute claim that all tongues spoken are known by men. In the kingdom of God there are many things we don't know.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Speaking in tongue
Excellent post Clint :-6
Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: Absoluetly not.
Absolutely not what?
Absolutely not what?
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr wrote: Absolutely not what?
"This is a million miles away from someone speaking gibberish no-one else understand that has to be "interpreted" for the assembled people.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand." ---absolutely not....
"This is a million miles away from someone speaking gibberish no-one else understand that has to be "interpreted" for the assembled people.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand." ---absolutely not....
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William Ess
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Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: I disagree, I should put my trust in someone I don't know from Adam, or; whether or not he is even a Christian and filled with the Spirit..no way.
Almost everything you learn about anything comes from someone you don't know from Adam. Schoolmasters, University Lecturers, etc, were all pretty remote - not to mention as aloof as the Mikado - figures. Why should divinity be any different.
Almost everything you learn about anything comes from someone you don't know from Adam. Schoolmasters, University Lecturers, etc, were all pretty remote - not to mention as aloof as the Mikado - figures. Why should divinity be any different.
Speaking in tongue
William Ess wrote: Almost everything you learn about anything comes from someone you don't know from Adam. Schoolmasters, University Lecturers, etc, were all pretty remote - not to mention as aloof as the Mikado - figures. Why should divinity be any different.
Isn't that rather obivious ? Schoolmasters, etc are not interperting what God has spoken.
Isn't that rather obivious ? Schoolmasters, etc are not interperting what God has spoken.
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William Ess
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:15 am
Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: Isn't that rather obivious ? Schoolmasters, etc are not interperting what God has spoken.
Yiou worte: 'I should put my trust in someone I don't know from Adam.' You didn't qualify it as being limited to matters of divinity.
Is an intimate likely to be more free from error than a stranger?
Yiou worte: 'I should put my trust in someone I don't know from Adam.' You didn't qualify it as being limited to matters of divinity.
Is an intimate likely to be more free from error than a stranger?
Speaking in tongue
William Ess wrote: Yiou worte: 'I should put my trust in someone I don't know from Adam.' You didn't qualify it as being limited to matters of divinity.
Is an intimate likely to be more free from error than a stranger?
Which Apostle had a Master of Divinity Degree ? I look rather to the inspiritation of the Holy Spirit..whether or not this teacher has the gifting and the fruits thereof of the Holy Spirit. After all God said that He is no respecter of persons. What you demostrate is Hellenisitic thought .
Is an intimate likely to be more free from error than a stranger?
Which Apostle had a Master of Divinity Degree ? I look rather to the inspiritation of the Holy Spirit..whether or not this teacher has the gifting and the fruits thereof of the Holy Spirit. After all God said that He is no respecter of persons. What you demostrate is Hellenisitic thought .
Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: "This is a million miles away from someone speaking gibberish no-one else understand that has to be "interpreted" for the assembled people.
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand." ---absolutely not....
Yes, I know what I said. What I do not know is what part of it you are disputing and why!
Far from one person speaking so that all can understand, whichever language they speak themselves, the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand." ---absolutely not....
Yes, I know what I said. What I do not know is what part of it you are disputing and why!
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr wrote: Yes, I know what I said. What I do not know is what part of it you are disputing and why!
This part :" the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand"
This part :" the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand"
Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: This part :" the modern speaking in tongues involves speaking so that no-one can understand"
That was exactly what was being described by the people who'd witnessed it :-
clint wrote: At the close of the liturgy a woman stood up and spoke in tongues. The elder said. "is there an interpretation"…no one responded…again… " is there an interpretation"…still no response.
william ess wrote: I witnessed it once whilst attending a nonconformist service at the request of a friend about 20 years ago. Two-thirds of the way through the service a woman jumped up and started rambling away in a language I took to be Russian. A chap in the congregation gave what I presumed was a translation.
weber wrote: I have never witnessed anyone speaking in tongues but I have a friend who does and she says it is just the Holy Spirit talking through them in words that nobody understands but they don't need to understand because the Holy Spirit does. It's not scary but I don't think I would be comfortable with it.
weeder wrote: In some charasmatic groups tongues is more like a babbling that escapes the lips of believers so overcome with emmotion that they are out of control.
twizzel wrote: My first wife is a born again christian and speaks in tonges, personnelly I think it's gibberrish. Her and her friends tell me thats because I am a sinner and God does not let me understand,
ted wrote: I read recently, and I don't remember where, that a linguist analysed someone speaking in tongues and came to the coclusion thre was no consistency in what was being said. It was in fact just babbling.
That is hardly the same as :-
atsila wrote: 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
That was exactly what was being described by the people who'd witnessed it :-
clint wrote: At the close of the liturgy a woman stood up and spoke in tongues. The elder said. "is there an interpretation"…no one responded…again… " is there an interpretation"…still no response.
william ess wrote: I witnessed it once whilst attending a nonconformist service at the request of a friend about 20 years ago. Two-thirds of the way through the service a woman jumped up and started rambling away in a language I took to be Russian. A chap in the congregation gave what I presumed was a translation.
weber wrote: I have never witnessed anyone speaking in tongues but I have a friend who does and she says it is just the Holy Spirit talking through them in words that nobody understands but they don't need to understand because the Holy Spirit does. It's not scary but I don't think I would be comfortable with it.
weeder wrote: In some charasmatic groups tongues is more like a babbling that escapes the lips of believers so overcome with emmotion that they are out of control.
twizzel wrote: My first wife is a born again christian and speaks in tonges, personnelly I think it's gibberrish. Her and her friends tell me thats because I am a sinner and God does not let me understand,
ted wrote: I read recently, and I don't remember where, that a linguist analysed someone speaking in tongues and came to the coclusion thre was no consistency in what was being said. It was in fact just babbling.
That is hardly the same as :-
atsila wrote: 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
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William Ess
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:15 am
Speaking in tongue
I have neither the experience nor evidence to state that the phenomenon is a fraud but I cannot see the purpose of it in a gathering of fifty people who all speak the same language.
Speaking in tongue
[QUOTE=Bryn Mawr]That was exactly what was being described by the people who'd witnessed it :-
Then the congregation was out of order....read the Scripture text already instead of making a off handed remark....
Then the congregation was out of order....read the Scripture text already instead of making a off handed remark....
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr wrote: That was exactly what was being described by the people who'd witnessed it :-
.
That is hardly the same as :-
At least one of your quotes has been taken out of context.
.
That is hardly the same as :-
At least one of your quotes has been taken out of context.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: [QUOTE=Bryn Mawr]That was exactly what was being described by the people who'd witnessed it :-
Then the congregation was out of order....read the Scripture text already instead of making a off handed remark....
The congregation in each of the cases I quoted did not behave as you would expect them to? The Church is wide and I am looking at the Church - not just your narrow interpretation of it.
Then the congregation was out of order....read the Scripture text already instead of making a off handed remark....
The congregation in each of the cases I quoted did not behave as you would expect them to? The Church is wide and I am looking at the Church - not just your narrow interpretation of it.
Speaking in tongue
Clint wrote: At least one of your quotes has been taken out of context.
Which one? and what about the other parts?
Which one? and what about the other parts?
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr wrote: The congregation in each of the cases I quoted did not behave as you would expect them to? The Church is wide and I am looking at the Church - not just your narrow interpretation of it.
What you have a snide remark in all of your posts ? Or are you indeed another atheistic Bible hater...?
What you have a snide remark in all of your posts ? Or are you indeed another atheistic Bible hater...?
Speaking in tongue
Nevim wrote: What you have a snide remark in all of your posts ? Or are you indeed another atheistic Bible hater...?
No, the Bible facinates me - people who are as intollerent of others' opinions as you and your friend are, do not.
No, the Bible facinates me - people who are as intollerent of others' opinions as you and your friend are, do not.
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr wrote: No, the Bible facinates me - people who are as intollerent of others' opinions as you and your friend are, do not.
Lets get one thing straight here--it is you and your friends here that started all this disrespect, intolerence, name calling, crying and blame shifting. You all need to grow up. This is no doubt not a christain site. I get more respect from Catholics that I have debated for years, and whom I vehemently disagree, but one thing I'll say for them they are not as low as just about what I've seen to date here. BYE
I will no longer cast my pearls before the swine..
Lets get one thing straight here--it is you and your friends here that started all this disrespect, intolerence, name calling, crying and blame shifting. You all need to grow up. This is no doubt not a christain site. I get more respect from Catholics that I have debated for years, and whom I vehemently disagree, but one thing I'll say for them they are not as low as just about what I've seen to date here. BYE
I will no longer cast my pearls before the swine..
Speaking in tongue
Nevim:-6
Very sad indeed.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Very sad indeed.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
Nevim:-6
I do not make it a habit of insulting or belittling anyone for any reason. However, I do challenge folks to think about their faith.
I have never judged you, as a person, or anyone else for that matter. That is God's role and His alone. However, I have clearly been judged by you without any questions concerning my faith. You have asked nothing to try to understand me or my position.
I can tell you quite clearly, I was raised in a fundamentalist/literalist church and when I began to search the scriptures and use my head, that God gave me by the way, I came to the conclusion that what I was being taught was not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
When folks come here in the Garden and start judging and commenting on the faith of others or lack thereof, without any knowledge then they get whatever comes along. We are here to discuss and learn from each other. This is not a forum for proselytization. That belongs elsewhere.
I am and have been a very devout Christian for most of my life; living by prayer and meditation and relying on the guidance of the Holy Spirit and for me Jesus is Lord. I sincerely hope that you and Atsila will back up and take another run at the forum but in the spirit of give and take. Disagree. By all means but one can disagree with respect. A strong come on only askes for a strong response.
May the Peace of Christ be with you.
Ted:-6
I do not make it a habit of insulting or belittling anyone for any reason. However, I do challenge folks to think about their faith.
I have never judged you, as a person, or anyone else for that matter. That is God's role and His alone. However, I have clearly been judged by you without any questions concerning my faith. You have asked nothing to try to understand me or my position.
I can tell you quite clearly, I was raised in a fundamentalist/literalist church and when I began to search the scriptures and use my head, that God gave me by the way, I came to the conclusion that what I was being taught was not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
When folks come here in the Garden and start judging and commenting on the faith of others or lack thereof, without any knowledge then they get whatever comes along. We are here to discuss and learn from each other. This is not a forum for proselytization. That belongs elsewhere.
I am and have been a very devout Christian for most of my life; living by prayer and meditation and relying on the guidance of the Holy Spirit and for me Jesus is Lord. I sincerely hope that you and Atsila will back up and take another run at the forum but in the spirit of give and take. Disagree. By all means but one can disagree with respect. A strong come on only askes for a strong response.
May the Peace of Christ be with you.
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
Ted wrote: Nevim:-6
I do not make it a habit of insulting or belittling anyone for any reason. However, I do challenge folks to think about their faith.
This is my last post to you Ted. You let your friends do the insulting and belittling for you. And when folks challenge you Ted, your friends came to your rescue with their ill-mannered, insulting statements, I for one am not going to take what they think they can dish out.
Ted wrote:
I have never judged you, as a person, or anyone else for that matter.
Well Ted neither has Atsila or myself have judged you, where ever did you get that idea? We questioned your theology you cannot defend it therefore we are the bad guys ! Grow up.
Ted wrote:
I can tell you quite clearly, I was raised in a fundamentalist/literalist church
Whatever is that ? That statement doesn't tell me squat Ted.
Ted wrote:
and when I began to search the scriptures and use my head, that God gave me by the way, I came to the conclusion that what I was being taught was not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Well Ted, how general, what Scriptures ? First off I haven't a clue what you were being taught or what you think you know now.
Ted wrote:
When folks come here in the Garden and start judging and commenting on the faith of others or lack thereof, without any knowledge then they get whatever comes along. We are here to discuss and learn from each other. This is not a forum for proselytization. That belongs elsewhere.
Oh do tell me Ted what is this forum for ? Insulting newcomers that defend God's Word ? For you to whine about being judged when neither of us judged you. So far we have been harrassed by a bunch of down right nasty, insulting twits all under their Zodiac sign--nice company you keep Ted.
Ted wrote:
I am and have been a very devout Christian for most of my life; living by prayer and meditation and relying on the guidance of the Holy Spirit and for me Jesus is Lord. I sincerely hope that you and Atsila will back up and take another run at the forum but in the spirit of give and take. Disagree. By all means but one can disagree with respect. A strong come on only askes for a strong response.
May the Peace of Christ be with you.
Ted:-6
Well Ted that's the way we came here, however your heathen friends took exception to what we had to say and I dare say so did you--right away it's the "your judging me" whine --nonsense Ted.
I do not make it a habit of insulting or belittling anyone for any reason. However, I do challenge folks to think about their faith.
This is my last post to you Ted. You let your friends do the insulting and belittling for you. And when folks challenge you Ted, your friends came to your rescue with their ill-mannered, insulting statements, I for one am not going to take what they think they can dish out.
Ted wrote:
I have never judged you, as a person, or anyone else for that matter.
Well Ted neither has Atsila or myself have judged you, where ever did you get that idea? We questioned your theology you cannot defend it therefore we are the bad guys ! Grow up.
Ted wrote:
I can tell you quite clearly, I was raised in a fundamentalist/literalist church
Whatever is that ? That statement doesn't tell me squat Ted.
Ted wrote:
and when I began to search the scriptures and use my head, that God gave me by the way, I came to the conclusion that what I was being taught was not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Well Ted, how general, what Scriptures ? First off I haven't a clue what you were being taught or what you think you know now.
Ted wrote:
When folks come here in the Garden and start judging and commenting on the faith of others or lack thereof, without any knowledge then they get whatever comes along. We are here to discuss and learn from each other. This is not a forum for proselytization. That belongs elsewhere.
Oh do tell me Ted what is this forum for ? Insulting newcomers that defend God's Word ? For you to whine about being judged when neither of us judged you. So far we have been harrassed by a bunch of down right nasty, insulting twits all under their Zodiac sign--nice company you keep Ted.
Ted wrote:
I am and have been a very devout Christian for most of my life; living by prayer and meditation and relying on the guidance of the Holy Spirit and for me Jesus is Lord. I sincerely hope that you and Atsila will back up and take another run at the forum but in the spirit of give and take. Disagree. By all means but one can disagree with respect. A strong come on only askes for a strong response.
May the Peace of Christ be with you.
Ted:-6
Well Ted that's the way we came here, however your heathen friends took exception to what we had to say and I dare say so did you--right away it's the "your judging me" whine --nonsense Ted.
Speaking in tongue
Nevim:-6
You know absolutely nothing of my faith nor have you questioned me concerning it. You would seem to think the louder you holler the more folks will listen.
You have my sympathy and my prayers.
You both have been rude and obnoxious and in fact have said absoilutely nothing. You both behave in such self righteous and arrogant ways that you invite what you get. That is hardly a way to create friendships or even civil discussion.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You know absolutely nothing of my faith nor have you questioned me concerning it. You would seem to think the louder you holler the more folks will listen.
You have my sympathy and my prayers.
You both have been rude and obnoxious and in fact have said absoilutely nothing. You both behave in such self righteous and arrogant ways that you invite what you get. That is hardly a way to create friendships or even civil discussion.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
[QUOTE=Nevim]This is my last post to you Ted.
We all fervently hope this was your last post to all of us..Go back under your rocks now please..bye bye then.
We all fervently hope this was your last post to all of us..Go back under your rocks now please..bye bye then.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Speaking in tongue
zinkyusa:-6
I do feel sorry for them. They seem to have no concept of interpersonal relationships or even the nature of what friendship is about. If one walks into a crowd and starts throwing things around, words or otherwise then s/he gets what s/he throws out.
That truly is a sad situation. However, you can't make folks civil who do not want to be civil. I'm afraid it looks as if their glass is half empty rathe than half full.
Of course no one here, no matter how seriously they take discussion wants proselytization. That does belong elsewhere.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I do feel sorry for them. They seem to have no concept of interpersonal relationships or even the nature of what friendship is about. If one walks into a crowd and starts throwing things around, words or otherwise then s/he gets what s/he throws out.
That truly is a sad situation. However, you can't make folks civil who do not want to be civil. I'm afraid it looks as if their glass is half empty rathe than half full.
Of course no one here, no matter how seriously they take discussion wants proselytization. That does belong elsewhere.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
Ted wrote: zinkyusa:-6
I do feel sorry for them. They seem to have no concept of interpersonal relationships or even the nature of what friendship is about. If one walks into a crowd and starts throwing things around, words or otherwise then s/he gets what s/he throws out.
That truly is a sad situation. However, you can't make folks civil who do not want to be civil. I'm afraid it looks as if their glass is half empty rathe than half full.
Of course no one here, no matter how seriously they take discussion wants proselytization. That does belong elsewhere.
Shalom
Ted:-6
They do have a way of bringing out the best in folks don't they Ted..LOL:wah:
I do feel sorry for them. They seem to have no concept of interpersonal relationships or even the nature of what friendship is about. If one walks into a crowd and starts throwing things around, words or otherwise then s/he gets what s/he throws out.
That truly is a sad situation. However, you can't make folks civil who do not want to be civil. I'm afraid it looks as if their glass is half empty rathe than half full.
Of course no one here, no matter how seriously they take discussion wants proselytization. That does belong elsewhere.
Shalom
Ted:-6
They do have a way of bringing out the best in folks don't they Ted..LOL:wah:
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Speaking in tongue
Ted wrote: zinkyusa:-6
I do feel sorry for them. They seem to have no concept of interpersonal relationships or even the nature of what friendship is about. If one walks into a crowd and starts throwing things around, words or otherwise then s/he gets what s/he throws out.
That truly is a sad situation. However, you can't make folks civil who do not want to be civil. I'm afraid it looks as if their glass is half empty rathe than half full.
Of course no one here, no matter how seriously they take discussion wants proselytization. That does belong elsewhere.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Pharisee.......this post is oozing with self-righteousness. Do you know what that is or did you give it up as too literalist? I would say in a Christian forum people come to discuss Christ. Why would you turn that into proselytizing? Or did you want to try out a new word? And, you're here to show the resident poor in spirit what Christian is all about, it's all about what you think it is. I sure hope you're right, I really do.
But, some may know you're doing your own thingie, a familiar thing to them that's why you relate so well. The Bible doesn't teach that, BTW.
There, I feel much better now.
Something you need to think on, righteous one. The paragon you claim to be would never dismiss another Child of the King the way you dismiss Nevim and me. He would strain with all his might to love his neighbor, because he does not know if his neighbor is on his way toward Christ or away from him. So, what do you think, did you talk us out of the safety net? You claim to be a Christian, make amends with your Master and fervently hope you were not the stumbling block that made us lost. I know HE'll forgive you. But, where will you go to find us to ask our forgiveness? :-6 Much sunshine to you.
I do feel sorry for them. They seem to have no concept of interpersonal relationships or even the nature of what friendship is about. If one walks into a crowd and starts throwing things around, words or otherwise then s/he gets what s/he throws out.
That truly is a sad situation. However, you can't make folks civil who do not want to be civil. I'm afraid it looks as if their glass is half empty rathe than half full.
Of course no one here, no matter how seriously they take discussion wants proselytization. That does belong elsewhere.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Pharisee.......this post is oozing with self-righteousness. Do you know what that is or did you give it up as too literalist? I would say in a Christian forum people come to discuss Christ. Why would you turn that into proselytizing? Or did you want to try out a new word? And, you're here to show the resident poor in spirit what Christian is all about, it's all about what you think it is. I sure hope you're right, I really do.
But, some may know you're doing your own thingie, a familiar thing to them that's why you relate so well. The Bible doesn't teach that, BTW.
There, I feel much better now.
Something you need to think on, righteous one. The paragon you claim to be would never dismiss another Child of the King the way you dismiss Nevim and me. He would strain with all his might to love his neighbor, because he does not know if his neighbor is on his way toward Christ or away from him. So, what do you think, did you talk us out of the safety net? You claim to be a Christian, make amends with your Master and fervently hope you were not the stumbling block that made us lost. I know HE'll forgive you. But, where will you go to find us to ask our forgiveness? :-6 Much sunshine to you.
Speaking in tongue
zinkyusa wrote: They do have a way of bringing out the best in folks don't they Ted..LOL:wah:
So do you and he and the rest of the loving humanity around here. You don't believe that others can and do know something, perhaps even more than you, so you feel threatened and anguished because your ignorance is showing, rather than acknowledge it and hope to learn. And so we learn from one another. You all missed that boat and there ain't another one scheduled. :-6
So do you and he and the rest of the loving humanity around here. You don't believe that others can and do know something, perhaps even more than you, so you feel threatened and anguished because your ignorance is showing, rather than acknowledge it and hope to learn. And so we learn from one another. You all missed that boat and there ain't another one scheduled. :-6
Speaking in tongue
Teach us and we will listen. Insult and dismiss us and we will leave. Which do you choose?
Speaking in tongue
Atsila wrote: So do you and he and the rest of the loving humanity around here. You don't believe that others can and do know something, perhaps even more than you, so you feel threatened and anguished because your ignorance is showing, rather than acknowledge it and hope to learn. And so we learn from one another. You all missed that boat and there ain't another one scheduled. :-6
I'm going to make one last attempt to be reasonable here. It was you and Nevim who came here and lectured people and went first to the personal attacks. Others responded in kind, call it sinking to your level I don't care. This is a very tolerant group here at FG to people who are polite and respectful. Passion is ok but we all need to be careful not to cross the line to disrespect. If you don't like the Catholic relgion thats is ok, no one hates you for that, but that does give you the right to personally insult our Catholic friends. I understand you are devout and deeply believe in your relgion and you are more than welcome to post about your faith. Personally I am more interested in hearing about your experiences than hearing an endless stream of scriptural quotes. So here is one last olive branch for you and Nevim.
I'm going to make one last attempt to be reasonable here. It was you and Nevim who came here and lectured people and went first to the personal attacks. Others responded in kind, call it sinking to your level I don't care. This is a very tolerant group here at FG to people who are polite and respectful. Passion is ok but we all need to be careful not to cross the line to disrespect. If you don't like the Catholic relgion thats is ok, no one hates you for that, but that does give you the right to personally insult our Catholic friends. I understand you are devout and deeply believe in your relgion and you are more than welcome to post about your faith. Personally I am more interested in hearing about your experiences than hearing an endless stream of scriptural quotes. So here is one last olive branch for you and Nevim.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Speaking in tongue
zinkyusa:-6
I think that is a good post. But it is interesting how some folks try to turn things around.
I agree with you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I think that is a good post. But it is interesting how some folks try to turn things around.
I agree with you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
Atsila:-6
:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
Atsila wrote: Something you need to think on, righteous one. The paragon you claim to be would never dismiss another Child of the King the way you dismiss Nevim and me. He would strain with all his might to love his neighbor, because he does not know if his neighbor is on his way toward Christ or away from him. So, what do you think, did you talk us out of the safety net? You claim to be a Christian, make amends with your Master and fervently hope you were not the stumbling block that made us lost. I know HE'll forgive you. But, where will you go to find us to ask our forgiveness? :-6 Much sunshine to you.
Much like you did when I said I didn't understand you?
Rather than explaining you responded :-
Atsila wrote: You can count me out as well. I don't understand your theology and, frankly, don't want to understand it. If referring to the sins of humanity, whether Jew or gentile, Hottentot or Hittite, is bashing - however you define it, then the only thing you have left for example is dumb animals.
The good, the bad, the ugly and beautiful in mankind is for example to all of us, Christ having done so HIMSELF. Eh?
Much like you did when I said I didn't understand you?
Rather than explaining you responded :-
Atsila wrote: You can count me out as well. I don't understand your theology and, frankly, don't want to understand it. If referring to the sins of humanity, whether Jew or gentile, Hottentot or Hittite, is bashing - however you define it, then the only thing you have left for example is dumb animals.
The good, the bad, the ugly and beautiful in mankind is for example to all of us, Christ having done so HIMSELF. Eh?
Speaking in tongue
Bryn Mawr:-6
LOL.
Go figure.
Shalom
Ted:-6
LOL.
Go figure.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Speaking in tongue
See what happens when ya don't stick to the subject of the tread ?:yh_peace
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.