The Second Coming

Discuss the Christian Faith.
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weber
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Post by weber »

guppy wrote: cute Furball Weber.....................:-6


Thanks Guppy

I thought the little feller was so cute and I was going to leave him for Hamster to adopt but Hamster can adopt him too. Did you get him to eat the strawberry?LOL I meant to get the llama and I will sometime.:guitarist
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seekerw
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Post by seekerw »

I personally believe the Second Coming is about 20 years away. I don't hold this as doctrine, because nobody knows when it will happen exactly except God. But we have the capability of destroying all humankind, the Arabs have the weapons and the desire to attempt to wipe out the state of Israel, and other things are in place that are necessary to fulfill the tribulations leading up to it.

Also, the book of Revelation describes that, after the last seal is opened, silence will be in heaven for half an hour before judgment is poured out, immediately preceding the Second Coming. If one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, as it says in the NT, then half an hour is about 20 years, so I figure the Seocnd Coming won't be before the year 2020 or so. This is all approximate, of course, but I just wanted to share my reasoning for why I believe as I do about the date of the Second Coming.
charles_r51
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Post by charles_r51 »

weber wrote: You don't give up do you. I am at peace with whatever happens. I am content. Should that be what is in store for me, there's not much I can do. But until then, I am free to choose what I wish to believe for me. So it doesn't much matter what you say. What I can never understand is why people think they are right and everybody else is wrong. That reminds me of the ostrich with it's head in the sand. I say what I believe but I don't think everybody else is wrong, because it is just what I believe.


give up? you mean quit? never!!! but how about a truce?:wah: :driving: :-4
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weber
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Post by weber »

charles_r51 wrote: give up? you mean quit? never!!! but how about a truce?:wah: :driving: :-4


Okay yeah, truce but you gotta think up a different line of thought so we can still talk. Okay........do it, they say, just do it.:)
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



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charles_r51
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Post by charles_r51 »

weber wrote: Okay yeah, truce but you gotta think up a different line of thought so we can still talk. Okay........do it, they say, just do it.:)


we could talk about dragons. but that's not in this thread:). i'll have to give it some thpought. hmmmmm. i know, we'll talk about the second coming of dragons and st.george and --- will they be coming too? :driving: :D
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OpenMind
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Post by OpenMind »

charles_r51 wrote: we could talk about dragons. but that's not in this thread:). i'll have to give it some thpought. hmmmmm. i know, we'll talk about the second coming of dragons and st.george and --- will they be coming too? :driving: :D


St George might come if you ask him nicely. You might have to shout at the dragons though.:D
naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

charles_r51 wrote: maybe what you expect is not what you'll get. he told you what the signs were, but not what the end would be. many see signs all the time and nothing has happened to change that. it's been going on for two thousand years, and each time someone tries to say the end is near, they wind up looking like fools. don't assume that, like them, you can say anything which will change, accelerate, slow, or determine what the divine plan is. it is nothing more than an execise in futility to do so. when the time comes, maybe you'll be surprised, and look back and say, "some plan, i never even knew it came about. how could i be so blind?".:D :-4


NAY!!! I"m not assuming anything. I pray that when it does happen everybody that doubted will remember what I told them.
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weber
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Post by weber »

OpenMind wrote: St George might come if you ask him nicely. You might have to shout at the dragons though.:D


OM

If you are coming, I am happy:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

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Post by weber »

naty2005 wrote: NAY!!! I"m not assuming anything. I pray that when it does happen everybody that doubted will remember what I told them.


Hey Naty:guitarist

I think that all we are supposed to do is be prepared not decide when it is going to be. And I think the idea was that it would be unknown so we would have to always be prepared. Neat plan wouldn't you say.
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



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naty2005
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Post by naty2005 »

weber wrote: Hey Naty:guitarist

I think that all we are supposed to do is be prepared not decide when it is going to be. And I think the idea was that it would be unknown so we would have to always be prepared. Neat plan wouldn't you say.


Amen. We're supposed to be always ready. look up and pray for your redemption is near. God bless.:)
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weber
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Post by weber »


miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Ted
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Post by Ted »

naty:-6

Matthew"s Jesus also said "Truly I tell you, there are some standing hefre who will not taste death before they see the "Son of Man" coming in his kingdom." Matt. 16:28.

Jesus and his disciples and other followers all thought that they second coming was going to happen in the immediate future. A close reading the the sacred scriptures will clearly show that. They were wrong. We are now at 2000 years and counting.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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OpenMind
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Post by OpenMind »

Ted wrote: naty:-6



Matthew"s Jesus also said "Truly I tell you, there are some standing hefre who will not taste death before they see the "Son of Man" coming in his kingdom." Matt. 16:28.



Jesus and his disciples and other followers all thought that they second coming was going to happen in the immediate future. A close reading the the sacred scriptures will clearly show that. They were wrong. We are now at 2000 years and counting.



Shalom



Ted:-6


We have no idea if the Second Coming occurs for everyone of us at the same time or individually. The Second Coming may have been occurring constantly for individuals since the Resurrection.
Ted
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Post by Ted »

OpenMind:-6

I don't disagree with that one bit. Good point.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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weber
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Post by weber »

Ted wrote: OpenMind:-6

I don't disagree with that one bit. Good point.

Shalom

Ted:-6


naty

Matthew"s Jesus also said "Truly I tell you, there are some standing hefre who will not taste death before they see the "Son of Man" coming in his kingdom." Matt. 16:28.

Jesus and his disciples and other followers all thought that they second coming was going to happen in the immediate future. A close reading the the sacred scriptures will clearly show that. They were wrong. We are now at 2000 years and counting.


I read that first part by naty

and I remember somewhere there being discussion of the possibility that one or more of the disciples might still be with us. Jesus/God can do anything. I don't necessarily believe about the disciples. Just that I heard it. Interesting thought.
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



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seekerw
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Post by seekerw »

weber wrote: I read that first part by naty

and I remember somewhere there being discussion of the possibility that one or more of the disciples might still be with us. Jesus/God can do anything. I don't necessarily believe about the disciples. Just that I heard it. Interesting thought.


In the last chapter of John, Jesus tells Peter, "If it's my will that he [John] tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" This indicates that John might remain alive on this earth until the Second Coming.
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Post by weber »

seekerw wrote: In the last chapter of John, Jesus tells Peter, "If it's my will that he [John] tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" This indicates that John might remain alive on this earth until the Second Coming.


That's it. Thank you seeker:-6
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



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Ted
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Post by Ted »

Ah, the literal interpretation. Not my cup of tea.

Shalom

Ted
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Post by OpenMind »

seekerw wrote: In the last chapter of John, Jesus tells Peter, "If it's my will that he [John] tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" This indicates that John might remain alive on this earth until the Second Coming.


Could that make John the oldest man on Earth?:thinking:
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Post by zinkyusa »

OpenMind wrote: Could that make John the oldest man on Earth?:thinking:


Bet he looks like a prune by now..;)
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weber
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Post by weber »

Ted wrote: Ah, the literal interpretation. Not my cup of tea.

Shalom

Ted


And what would your interpretation be Ted?
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

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Post by seekerw »

OpenMind wrote: Could that make John the oldest man on Earth?:thinking:


I'd say so, but unless he has his birth certificate, he couldn't prove it. :)
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Post by weber »

seekerw wrote: I'd say so, but unless he has his birth certificate, he couldn't prove it. :)


He's not on line Seeker and hasn't been for a while so I don't think we are going to get an answer. And I don't think he would even want to prove it if he were here Seeker, Paul I mean. Somebody said he would be very wrinkly but I figure that if God could keep him here then he wouldn't necessarily have to be wrinkly.:-6
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



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seekerw
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Post by seekerw »

weber wrote: He's not on line Seeker and hasn't been for a while so I don't think we are going to get an answer. And I don't think he would even want to prove it if he were here Seeker, Paul I mean. Somebody said he would be very wrinkly but I figure that if God could keep him here then he wouldn't necessarily have to be wrinkly.:-6


Are you talking about John not being on line here for a while? :-6 Seriously, I agree that John would not necessarily be wrinkly. He'd be more of a plum than a prune, wouldn't you say? :-6
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Post by weber »

seekerw wrote: Are you talking about John not being on line here for a while? :-6 Seriously, I agree that John would not necessarily be wrinkly. He'd be more of a plum than a prune, wouldn't you say? :-6


Ah Seeker

maybe it is you who is wrinkly eh:lips:

As for Paul, he would definitely be a peach, hmmmm without the pit:-6
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
seekerw
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Post by seekerw »

weber wrote: Ah Seeker

maybe it is you who is wrinkly eh:lips:

As for Paul, he would definitely be a peach, hmmmm without the pit:-6


LOL about Paul. That was good.

As for me being wrinkly, I'm not yet. But ask me in another 40 years, and I might have to give you a different answer. :-6
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Post by charles_r51 »

OpenMind wrote: St George might come if you ask him nicely. You might have to shout at the dragons though.:D


well, i may just ask them nice little dragons to come along, but i don't think they'll want me shouting at them. they may even spit fire at me or something if i don't ask real polite.:wah:

welcome back ted.

have been having net problems so it may be awhile before i can get back to being my old cantankerous self.:-4
charles_r51
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Post by charles_r51 »

weber wrote: Ah Seeker

maybe it is you who is wrinkly eh:lips:

As for Paul, he would definitely be a peach, hmmmm without the pit:-6


paul a peach? impossible. an avocado, maybe, but not a peach.:-4
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Post by Ted »

weber:-6

First of all they are the words of John's Jesus. They are not the words of the historical Jesus. John was writing what the church had come to believe about Jesus at the time of writing. It was a developing tradition.

John was simply making a comment on what the church believed about the power of Jesus; that he could. However, folks don't usually hang around much past 85 though some to make it to 115. It was and is a typical writing style in sacred literature--exageration to make a point.



shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by weber »

Ted wrote: weber:-6

First of all they are the words of John's Jesus. They are not the words of the historical Jesus. John was writing what the church had come to believe about Jesus at the time of writing. It was a developing tradition.

John was simply making a comment on what the church believed about the power of Jesus; that he could. However, folks don't usually hang around much past 85 though some to make it to 115. It was and is a typical writing style in sacred literature--exageration to make a point.



shalom

Ted:-6


So how do you know that they are the words of John's Jesus and not the historical Jesus. On what do you base your statement?
miriam:yh_flower



Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

.................Charles Mingus



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Post by OpenMind »

charles_r51 wrote: well, i may just ask them nice little dragons to come along, but i don't think they'll want me shouting at them. they may even spit fire at me or something if i don't ask real polite.:wah:



welcome back ted.



have been having net problems so it may be awhile before i can get back to being my old cantankerous self.:-4


Just make sure you don't wear anything shiny, Charles. They like shiny objects a lot.:D
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Post by Ted »

weber:-6

That statement is based on a great deal of research by Crossan, Borg and others. To get a good grasp of the methods and reasoning used one can read "The Historical Jesus; A Mediterranean Jewish Peasant" which is some 500 pages long. The whole paradigm is not able to be shrunk to a small paragraph. There are many factors involved. However I shall try a little.

Such a research project utilizes: known history, the nature of sacred writings, midrash, biblical layering, single to multiple attestations, internal and external attestation and reason.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by nvalleyvee »

koan wrote: I haven't. Who wrote it? I'm assuming it would be a hoot.


It was.
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Post by nvalleyvee »

You know I have a great deal of respect for your belief Ted. I really think all religions give their believers a great deal of comfort. Many people in this world, now and in the past, need comfort because their lives basically suck the dry wind of a desert. There is little hope among peoples and nations so they cling to their interpretation of their God.

All of the religions of the world have a God that seems similar in mind and soul to one another. Most religions have a prophet or someone to that effect and some of those religions believe the second coming comes with the the death and rebirth of their Earth leadrer. The Christian religion is no different. Geez most Western religions belive this whereas most Eastern religions believe their prophet is reborn through the generations.

Who is right or correct in their belief? Do you really think we will die and find Jesus? Maybe we will die and find the yin/yang. All people with belief in their hearts and souls will find peace in death and DUH.......isn't that what religion has been about since the dawn of man?
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
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weber
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Post by weber »

Ted wrote: weber:-6

That statement is based on a great deal of research by Crossan, Borg and others. To get a good grasp of the methods and reasoning used one can read "The Historical Jesus; A Mediterranean Jewish Peasant" which is some 500 pages long. The whole paradigm is not able to be shrunk to a small paragraph. There are many factors involved. However I shall try a little.

Such a research project utilizes: known history, the nature of sacred writings, midrash, biblical layering, single to multiple attestations, internal and external attestation and reason.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Well that will take quite a while so I'll let you know when I am done.:-6
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

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Post by seekerw »

Ted,

I asked you earlier why you think Jesus was not born in the stable in Bethlehem. I ask you again, why do you think he wasn't?

Also, can you give me some scriptural reasons why you don't believe in the rapture the way it is commonly taught? I don't want to argue, but want to be prepared in case I ever get into such a discussion with my friends.
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Post by Ted »

nvalleyvee:-6

In a basic sense they are all correct. You are correct to note that all worship a god who seems to be essentially the same. In fact they all worship the creator who goes by a thousand names.

There are some basic spiritual values that underly all the great faiths in the world, the extremists not withstanding. Slowly but surely we are returning to that basic set of values well expressed in the golden rule and Jesus' commandment to love God and your neighbour.

Man has expressed a spiritual side since s/he began to think as a human. I've read recently, not sure where, that scientists are beginning to believe that we are hardwired to have a spiritual side. Actually that may have been O'Murchu in "Evolutionary Faith". If so. Why?

I think there are two aspects to faith. One is a here and now aspect. We are to live in the here and now and look after all of creation in a proper and caring way. The second aspect is a belief in some form of spiritual existence after death. This is a hope and is called that in the Christian Bible. Christians see in Jesus of Nazareth the indication that such is the case.

My preference is to deal with the here and now and let God look after the future. That is His business.

In recognizing the validity in all of the great faiths I refer to myself as a Christian pluralist.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by charles_r51 »

Ted wrote: nvalleyvee:-6

In a basic sense they are all correct. You are correct to note that all worship a god who seems to be essentially the same. In fact they all worship the creator who goes by a thousand names.

There are some basic spiritual values that underly all the great faiths in the world, the extremists not withstanding. Slowly but surely we are returning to that basic set of values well expressed in the golden rule and Jesus' commandment to love God and your neighbour.

Man has expressed a spiritual side since s/he began to think as a human. I've read recently, not sure where, that scientists are beginning to believe that we are hardwired to have a spiritual side. Actually that may have been O'Murchu in "Evolutionary Faith". If so. Why?

I think there are two aspects to faith. One is a here and now aspect. We are to live in the here and now and look after all of creation in a proper and caring way. The second aspect is a belief in some form of spiritual existence after death. This is a hope and is called that in the Christian Bible. Christians see in Jesus of Nazareth the indication that such is the case.

My preference is to deal with the here and now and let God look after the future. That is His business.

In recognizing the validity in all of the great faiths I refer to myself as a Christian pluralist.

Shalom

Ted:-6


are you saying there are two faiths, and not one faith which is expressed in all in ways we may or may not agree is the correct way? or are you saying that faith has but two aspects, and regardless of which particular religion it is based upon? should we not act out our faith based upon what the future may bring, and let god prove us through our actions?:D :-4
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Post by charles_r51 »

charles_r51 wrote: are you saying there are two faiths, and not one faith which is expressed in all in ways we may or may not agree is the correct way? or are you saying that faith has but two aspects, and regardless of which particular religion it is based upon? should we not act out our faith based upon what the future may bring, and let god prove us through our actions?:D :-4


welcome back ted!:D :-4
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Post by charles_r51 »

OpenMind wrote: Just make sure you don't wear anything shiny, Charles. They like shiny objects a lot.:D


i may be contankerous, but i'm not shiny at all. i just have this kinda grey haze around me. it may be some rain clouds forming, but i have an umbrella.:D :-4
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Post by Ted »

seeker:-6

Terribly sorry I missed that question in the past.

It would appear that Mary's hometown was Nazareth. It was probably Josephs as well. When a census is taken it is and was done by recording yourself in the town in which you lived. To go to the town of your birth would indeed pose a lot of problems for families where husband and wife and children were all born in different towns. There is no record of such a census ever being taken.

Secondly Roman records of public governance are very complete. There is no evidence whatsoever that a census was taken in that year let alone one so unusual.

Thirdly we must come to realize that the birth stories of Jesus are midrash. After the death and resurrection of Jesus many of his followers decided that he was indeed the Messiah and thus used midrash in order to write the story up. This was a traditional style of sacred writing. They went to the Old Testament and found what looked like references to the coming Messiah and then wrote the story up accordingly. What a profound experience this Jesus of Nazareth must have been.

Now to the rapture. It is not a common teaching among all the churches. Many of the fundamentalist churches to do not accept this term. Apparently is was a term created by some woman in the 19th cent., whose name escapes me at the moment. It is not a Biblical term. It is also founded a great deal on the book of Revelation which is not a prophecy about the future but an attack on the then existing Roman empire.

The fact of the matter is we do not know anything about the "last days" and Jesus clearly told us not to worry about it.

I hope this helps.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Ted »

charles:-6

What I am saying is that there is validity in all faiths and not just one. The problem in the Christian faith is that Jesus has not been followed completely. He was more concerned about the oppressed and downtrodden of his day than he was about any future kingdom beyond time and space. He did however apparently believe in and refer to such a view.

In a way then there are two aspects to our faith. One involves the here and now and one involves the "afterlife". Martin Luther said something to the effect that our business is the here and now and the afterlife is God's business.

It is rather hard to "save" one's soul when that one is living in destitution and their first concern is eating and clothing to stay alive. In fact such an approach is, in my opinion, immoral.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by OpenMind »

Ted wrote: It is rather hard to "save" one's soul when that one is living in destitution and their first concern is eating and clothing to stay alive. In fact such an approach is, in my opinion, immoral.



Shalom

Ted:-6


Immoral indeed. I believe that Jesus taught us not to worry about what we had to wear or eat.
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Post by Ted »

OpenMind:-6

I think what Jesus is supposed to have said is don't worry about tomorrow. Unfortunately if one is starving today he is not the least bit concerned about tomorrow. If he is naked and cold today he is not concerned about tomorrow. In either case he may not make it to tomorrow. Certainly not in northern Canada.

I think the parable of the "Good Samaritan" is a good example of Jesus' message.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by OpenMind »

Ted wrote: OpenMind:-6



I think what Jesus is supposed to have said is don't worry about tomorrow. Unfortunately if one is starving today he is not the least bit concerned about tomorrow. If he is naked and cold today he is not concerned about tomorrow. In either case he may not make it to tomorrow. Certainly not in northern Canada.



I think the parable of the "Good Samaritan" is a good example of Jesus' message.



Shalom

Ted:-6


Ted.

I distinctly remember reading the sermon where, using God's creatures as an example, Jesus taught the listeners not to worry for food or clothing as God provides but to worry about the evils of the day. Not to worry about tomorrow was next as I recall.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

OpenMind wrote: Could that make John the oldest man on Earth?:thinking:


Surely either Lazarus or Methusila - both came before (note to self, check that Lazerus was indeed older than the disciples) and at least one of them is supposed to still be alive.
Ted
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The Second Coming

Post by Ted »

OpenMind:-6

You may very well be correct. I will see what I can find.

Shalom

Ted:-6
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

The Second Coming

Post by Ted »

OpenMind:-6

You are probably referring to Matt. 6:28ff. It begins with "Consider the lilies of the field, . . ." He does say that one should not worry about food and clothing. However, the closing verse #34 reas "'So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today's trouble is enough for today.'"

I've checked in the "Interpreter's One Volume Commentary". It is a rather lengthy discussion so I will try to paraphrase. The Greek word used is misinterpreted as worry and in this case means "be anxious". What this is saying since God knows our needs He will provide the means. This does not mean that we sit around on our rear ends and wait for things to come to us but that in our search we are not to be anxious because we will ultimately succeed.

It becomes a problem for those who take it literally. Today the idea of not worrying about clothing could get you into deep doo doo with the courts if you run around in your birthday suit. Our north american society seems to take a dim view of that except for a few beaches or naturist resorts. LOL We do have "Wreck Beach" in Vancouver where everyone just wears their birthday suits. It is probably comfortable in that venue. To hell with the bathing suits.

When I see some of the bikinis that some gals wear I sometimes wonder why they bother to wear anything. Some of the men are the same. LOL

Shalom

Ted:-6
charles_r51
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:24 am

The Second Coming

Post by charles_r51 »

Ted wrote: OpenMind:-6

You are probably referring to Matt. 6:28ff. It begins with "Consider the lilies of the field, . . ." He does say that one should not worry about food and clothing. However, the closing verse #34 reas "'So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today's trouble is enough for today.'"

I've checked in the "Interpreter's One Volume Commentary". It is a rather lengthy discussion so I will try to paraphrase. The Greek word used is misinterpreted as worry and in this case means "be anxious". What this is saying since God knows our needs He will provide the means. This does not mean that we sit around on our rear ends and wait for things to come to us but that in our search we are not to be anxious because we will ultimately succeed.

It becomes a problem for those who take it literally. Today the idea of not worrying about clothing could get you into deep doo doo with the courts if you run around in your birthday suit. Our north american society seems to take a dim view of that except for a few beaches or naturist resorts. LOL We do have "Wreck Beach" in Vancouver where everyone just wears their birthday suits. It is probably comfortable in that venue. To hell with the bathing suits.

When I see some of the bikinis that some gals wear I sometimes wonder why they bother to wear anything. Some of the men are the same. LOL

Shalom

Ted:-6


would you rather see men and women both return to the days when full body swimwear was required? of couirse some clothing is almost to the point of non-existance, but isn't it better than the the victorian age? jesus condemned the people of his day for being the do as i say, not as i do moralists, but wasn't he really saying to vbe yourdself, and do what is right, not what others tell you is right?:-4
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OpenMind
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The Second Coming

Post by OpenMind »

Ted wrote: OpenMind:-6



You are probably referring to Matt. 6:28ff. It begins with "Consider the lilies of the field, . . ." He does say that one should not worry about food and clothing. However, the closing verse #34 reas "'So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today's trouble is enough for today.'"



I've checked in the "Interpreter's One Volume Commentary". It is a rather lengthy discussion so I will try to paraphrase. The Greek word used is misinterpreted as worry and in this case means "be anxious". What this is saying since God knows our needs He will provide the means. This does not mean that we sit around on our rear ends and wait for things to come to us but that in our search we are not to be anxious because we will ultimately succeed.



It becomes a problem for those who take it literally. Today the idea of not worrying about clothing could get you into deep doo doo with the courts if you run around in your birthday suit. Our north american society seems to take a dim view of that except for a few beaches or naturist resorts. LOL We do have "Wreck Beach" in Vancouver where everyone just wears their birthday suits. It is probably comfortable in that venue. To hell with the bathing suits.



When I see some of the bikinis that some gals wear I sometimes wonder why they bother to wear anything. Some of the men are the same. LOL



Shalom

Ted:-6


Ted. Thanks very much for that. God provides, and we must go shopping.:D :-6
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