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koan
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Post by koan »

You plan to do the editing yourself, yes? That takes incredibly longer than the shooting period so you'll want it to be someone not expecting to paid by the hour or week.
koan
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Post by koan »

koan;1360800 wrote: In that case, plan to film only on private property or take a crew of less than five who are mobile and ready to run away.

The average crew person makes $2000/wk on low budget. Department heads make more and don't have prenegotiated wages. The DP will be your most expensive. So your 40, 000 will probably cover wages for a month with the cast included. If you pay less you'll have to have that appeal thing I mentioned earlier.


ok time for me to go to bed.

It gives you less than two weeks.
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Post by koan »

One more tidbit for the evening.

The average low budget show shoots 8-9 pages per day. A script generally times out at a minute per page. The average script is 110-120 pages. The most I've ever seen shot in a day is 12 pages. That gives you two weeks at breakneck speed.

So we're down to a two week shoot on a script that doesn't require locations that will need permits. That will limit which script you try first. Make sure it doesn't have stunts or action sequences.
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spot
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Post by spot »

If I make the mistake of taking into populated areas a cast and crew who behave any more visibly than a bunch of tourists then I shall warn them they'll need running shoes. I would much rather use digital post-production fakery to make up for outdoor lighting deficiencies than take lights anywhere. I have no need at any stage for a generator. I know where to hire an equipped studio for indoor work and I know what the crew will need to take for indoor location work. And no, that's not going to require a generator either. The biggest thing I'm planning to rent is a day-trippy tour coach and driver from a local operator.
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spot
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Post by spot »

koan;1360803 wrote: Make sure it doesn't have stunts or action sequences.Good lord. Action, on one of my films, will consist of raising a teacup in such a way that the audience will hold its breath wondering whether it might drip.
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koan
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Post by koan »

checked one more thing: a director of photography earns 10, 000/wk on low budget. So hire a gaffer as your DP. They might only charge half of that.
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spot
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Post by spot »

koan;1360806 wrote: checked one more thing: a director of photography earns 10, 000/wk on low budget. So hire a gaffer as your DP. They might only charge half of that.You're talking way out of my league. Inexperienced graduates with three years media production study, that's my limit.
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spot
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Post by spot »

koan;1360801 wrote: You plan to do the editing yourself, yes? That takes incredibly longer than the shooting period so you'll want it to be someone not expecting to paid by the hour or week.I've no intention of editing on my own but as with the rest of the crew I hope to have ex-students alongside me with no commercial experience. We'll write a house style guide as we go. I want what we develop to be visually distinctive and recognisable from an editing perspective just as much as from the camera work. Neither can exist without the other. The advantage of growing techniques rather than importing them for pay is that the techniques are what we devise ourselves as a team rather than something of independent origin.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

koan;1360790 wrote: As a guideline...

Blair Witch Project, which is a crappier film than you want to do, spent $25,000 for 9 days of shooting. The final budget including marketing was between $500, 000 and $750, 000

The low budget films that I worked on and usually went straight to video were $2-2.5 million and shot an average of 4 weeks.


What worries me here is the difference between the shooting cost and the final budget - assuming that it is not *all* in the marketing cost then the post production processing is an excessive overhead on the budget that any amount of scheduling wont get rid of.

Certainly any form of CGI would be a no-no but I would assume that the Blair Witch Project didn't use it either. Recording and remastering of the soundtrack would not add that much unless you were going overboard so is it the video editing that takes so long / costs so much? I'd have thought that the move from film to digital would have made that easier?
koan
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Post by koan »

Ok. So, based on our questions and answer period, your choices in where to spend the money are going to compromise your mission statement of achieving excellence. The computer won't be able to do what you want because the way to save time and money on a film are to do as much of it yourself as possible, and have superior communication skills and a whole truckload of charisma.

You can only afford to assemble cast and crew on a less than average pay scale so you need some sort of appeal to attract talented individuals. Your rejection of the notion of appeal is more than disturbing to your mission statement of wanting an excellent product. Why make a movie that isn't appealing? You're either doing it because you believe it has appeal or you're doing it to make money. You've clearly explained that this is not about trying to make a bunch of money so that leaves us with the appeal factor. A corporation is not a person. The law treats it as such but it isn't really a person. A computer isn't a filmmaker. It plays a big part of modern filmmaking but it doesn't actually make movies without filmmakers.

You're prep isn't going to make a film fantastic. Artistic vision and great dialogue are the main ingredients.

You've got many words written down but they're not the words that filmmakers normally concern themselves with. What I think you're doing is writing a bunch of words that make you feel more confident until your confidence reaches a level where you decide to buy the filming equipment. A better way to get the confidence and learn about the art form you're wanting to do is to just buy the camera and equipment, make 5 minute shorts, get a youtube channel and build your audience. Once your 5 minute shorts are getting noticed you'll find people who want to work with you. They'll send you story ideas and give you suggestions on how to improve what you're doing. You'll actually become a part of the community.

If you can't tell a great story in 5 minutes of film you shouldn't be a filmmaker.

It won't cost you sixty grand either.

Until you're part of the film community you don't have a heck of a lot to work with.

That's my two cents.

Scrap the business talk, put your money where your mouth is and get the damn camera. Shoot something. Learn your art. Then tell me what kind of artist you are and I might take it more seriously.
koan
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Post by koan »

How Content Creators Make Money On YouTube - SocialTimes.com

Explains why youtube is a good idea for people who think they can make good videos

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Explains the requirements to start getting paid for your videos

Why waste 60 000 to find out whether or not you can make movies when you could spend tiny fractions of that to find out? If you're good at it your process of finding out will end up generating revenue to fund those big features you have in mind. If you're not good at it you'll have lost a lot less than 60 000 finding out.
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spot
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Post by spot »

I expect my essentials have got lost in all the extra words.

The core is I have some stories I intend to tell. Nobody else is going to tell them for me. Even if they took them, which they won't, they'd tell them differently. The only interest I have is in telling those stories as films. I have no desire to be a film-maker, but neither have I an option but to take this route. No other pathway is going to get me a completed set of films over which I hold all the copyrights, of the stories I want to tell.

If I don't hold the copyrights I can't open source all the clips along with my final cut, and I intend to.

I note, in passing since you find "we aspire to excellence and to recognition for excellence" to be disturbing: it's only third on the list, and the list is priority-ordered. And it's marked in as an aspiration, not a promise or a necessity.
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koan
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Post by koan »

Then don't write up your company like it's something other than a person who just wants to get some personal movies made.
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spot
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Post by spot »

koan;1360828 wrote: Then don't write up your company like it's something other than a person who just wants to get some personal movies made.


As you say, it's a different entity. It's my vehicle for achieving my goals but it's not me. As far as the start-up's concerned I'm just the designer, I'm not going to short-change anything I design, I have a reputation to consider.
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koan
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Post by koan »

spot;1360829 wrote: As you say, it's a different entity. It's my vehicle for achieving my goals but it's not me. As far as the start-up's concerned I'm just the designer, I'm not going to short-change anything I design, I have a reputation to consider.


See? That makes no sense to me.

You've got the business of making a movie, about which you know very little and of which you have never done. No short films, never used a camera or an editing suite.

You've also got the business of developing software which, because I sent the link to you, I know you are aware already exists.

So there is no business.

A product that has already been developed by people who actually know the complete jobs of the people who make a living using the software vs yours, developed by someone who doesn't know how to do those jobs and plans on offering the result as an open source. If you knew the industry you'd be aware that filmmakers prefer to pay more money for known programs than use open source. It's the same reason wealthy people spend $500 on a plain t-shirt.

The other is a product that you claim has no artistic appeal, no budget and probably no audience.

Let me assure you, there is no story that you can't tell in a series of shorts. If you prefer to waste your money pretending you understand the business of movie making then knock yourself out. I'm frankly, and obviously, really disturbed by the whole thing. I'm sure you mission statement and business plan sound good to people who don't understand film making. I've been there, done it, and if I had $60 000 to invest in something you'd be damn sure I'd do it by buying a camera and making the product instead of worrying about what sounds good on paper. Film crew and cast don't give a rat's ass what your mission statement is. Audiences don't give a rat's ass what your mission statement is. They want entertainment.

Ok. I'm sorry I don't support what you've written. I do support what you want to do, just not the way you're proposing to do it. I wish we were able to talk in the same language here but we obviously can't so I'm not going to post in this thread anymore. I'm faint just thinking of all the time and money you're going to waste.

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