Witchcraft

Discuss topics ranging from UFO's to Unexplained Phenomena.
Clodhopper
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Witchcraft

Post by Clodhopper »

Because they mess with your head until you believe in them. Then they leg it with the cash, leaving your head totally ****ed. Look at the Moonies or Scientologists as examples, or all the newspaper horoscope writers:mad:

I've seen some of the damage they can do...
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
Amber Sun
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Post by Amber Sun »

Clodhopper;1133953 wrote: Because they mess with your head until you believe in them. Then they leg it with the cash, leaving your head totally ****ed. Look at the Moonies or Scientologists as examples, or all the newspaper horoscope writers:mad:

I've seen some of the damage they can do...


Oh ok, LOL, I didn't know what you were referring to.:)
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Betty Boop
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Post by Betty Boop »

Clodhopper;1133953 wrote: Because they mess with your head until you believe in them. Then they leg it with the cash, leaving your head totally ****ed. Look at the Moonies or Scientologists as examples, or all the newspaper horoscope writers:mad:

I've seen some of the damage they can do...


The real psychics are unassuming and working quietly in the background, they seek no money and do not mess with your head, they also do not claim to know the answers to everything. :-6
Clodhopper
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Post by Clodhopper »

Betty: I'm sure they are. I don't have all the answers either, and I'm certainly aware that there is some weird stuff out there. But it is very difficult to know which are the genuine, and which the fake. And you bump into some real eejits who discredit the whole field, and NONE of this seems susceptible to scientific analysis which means people can claim what they like, and they frequently do.

I have to remind myself that just because there are so many people talking so much rubbish about this sort of thing, it doesn't mean there aren't real phenomena occurring. Hmm. Whatever happened to the Arther Koestler Chair of Parapsychology at Edinburgh Uni?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
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spot
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Post by spot »

Clodhopper;1134581 wrote: Whatever happened to the Arther Koestler Chair of Parapsychology at Edinburgh Uni?One day it was there

and the next

it had mysteriously turned into

three garden gnomes on full scholarships

reading

(so they claimed)

Classics.
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Sunshine
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Post by Sunshine »

Our History channel has stories about Nostradamus and secrets buried in bible text. Most of the information is just assumed though and not proven. I would suppose, if you looked hard enough, you would find some fact in fortune telling and in Horoscopes. Most, IMO, are just good guesses.
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spot
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Post by spot »

Amber Sun;1133564 wrote: Real Sufism has its roots in the Pre-Christian period although the other factions that are trying to take over the name say it starts with Mohammad. I do have 2 links here for you that can probably explain better than I have.

What is a Sufi

Sufism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Masons claim to originate a thousand years BC too.

I'm unaware of any Sufist source, either by name or by behaviour or by belief, from before 900AD. I'm aware that there are lots of Sufists after 900AD who claim to continue the practice of ancient Sufists but then, they would say that, wouldn't they.

If you would correct me I'd be grateful.
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Amber Sun
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Post by Amber Sun »

spot;1134646 wrote: The Masons claim to originate a thousand years BC too.

I'm unaware of any Sufist source, either by name or by behaviour or by belief, from before 900AD. I'm aware that there are lots of Sufists after 900AD who claim to continue the practice of ancient Sufists but then, they would say that, wouldn't they.

If you would correct me I'd be grateful.


Hi spot. I had promised Bryn that I would try to find something on the net for him. The majority of my knowledge is from university courses, the university library and our main library here. I got home very late last night and so didn't do much searching for Bryn. Here is one link though that is clear and to the point. I had found others but thought this was the best.



Rediscover Ancient Egypt - The Ancient Egyptian Roots of Sufism
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spot
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Post by spot »

Amber Sun;1134704 wrote: Hi spot. I had promised Bryn that I would try to find something on the net for him. The majority of my knowledge is from university courses, the university library and our main library here. I got home very late last night and so didn't do much searching for Bryn. Here is one link though that is clear and to the point. I had found others but thought this was the best.



Rediscover Ancient Egypt - The Ancient Egyptian Roots of Sufism


Obviously there were mystic elements in the Hermetic tradition but the Hermetic tradition, while it may have spawned Sufism, isn't Sufist. No mystical practise is rootless. There were mystic elements in the Gnostic tradition too but the Gnostic tradition, while it may also have fed elements into Sufism, isn't Sufist either.

There are specific aspects of Sufism which, if you remove them, leave you with something that isn't Sufist. That's why I asked for any Sufist source, either by name or by behaviour or by belief, from before 900AD. I feel you've given me Sufist sources from after 900AD who mention their spiritual roots (as in, in that page, "The Egyptian Dhu ‘l-Nun (died in 860 CE)" who "prepared the way"). I take it that "The Egyptian Dhu ‘l-Nun" wouldn't have called himself a Sufist, or recognized later Sufist behaviour and belief as his own. Yes he's a spiritual source, no he's not a believer in Sufism nor a practicer of Sufism.

And so on back down the line of spiritual sources. Apollonius was a spiritual source for Sufism but he wasn't a Sufist. Neither, if there was a Thoth, was Thoth.
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Amber Sun
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Post by Amber Sun »

spot;1134706 wrote: Obviously there were mystic elements in the Hermetic tradition but the Hermetic tradition, while it may have spawned Sufism, isn't Sufist. No mystical practise is rootless. There were mystic elements in the Gnostic tradition too but the Gnostic tradition, while it may also have fed elements into Sufism, isn't Sufist either. There are specific aspects of Sufism which, if you remove them, leave you with something that isn't Sufist.

Unless you are Sufi, or the 'something else', you wouldn't know that, would you?



That's why I asked for any Sufist source, either by name or by behaviour or by belief, from before 900AD.

They weren't called Sufi. They went by many names as you are well aware. The word 'Sufi' simply describes a particular people in one particular language. The name changes according to the different language but the attributes remain the same. You are aware also that not everyone who calls him/her self a Sufi really is. The name in itself means nothing.



I feel you've given me Sufist sources from after 900AD who mention their spiritual roots (as in, in that page, "The Egyptian Dhu ‘l-Nun (died in 860 CE)" who "prepared the way"). I take it that "The Egyptian Dhu ‘l-Nun" wouldn't have called himself a Sufist, or recognized later Sufist behaviour and belief as his own. Yes he's a spiritual source, no he's not a believer in Sufism nor a practicer of Sufism.

And so on back down the line of spiritual sources. Apollonius was a spiritual source for Sufism but he wasn't a Sufist. Neither, if there was a Thoth, was Thoth.


Forget it spot, I have no intention of letting you goad me into talking about something we shouldn't be talking about on an open thread. And please don't pretend ignorance. You have already given yourself away by stating that there is a 'difference'.

End of this conversation.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Amber Sun;1133899 wrote:

I don't generally envy anyone, but you have just become one of the very few Bryn. Do you mind taking the minute to tell me what you found so impressive, was it the mausoleum or the dances or both?

When I have a bit of time I will try to find more links for you explaining the real Sufi. I know there was one about 2-3 years ago when I was researching Pantheism, Sufism, and Buddhism.


Konya itself was chaotic and hard to take in but the "Mevlevi Cultural Centre" as it is now called was the total opposite - an island of calm and tranquility.

The mausoleums were certainly impressive - every major leader of the sect since the thirteenth century is interred there and the ?sarcophagi? are awesome. You can tell the rank of each by the hight and the number of turban rings on the ceremonial head-dress resting on top - these hats were massive, up to six feet tall and it's difficult to know how a person could wear one.

After passing through the Mausoleum we moved into what is now the museum, it would have been the cloistered area of the monastery before dissolution, with an impressive display of the history of the place.

Sadly, they did not hold a public ceremony the day we were there and we could not stretch our stay so we did not see them dancing - a reconstruction was as close as we managed, but certainly one of the real highlights of our drive around central Turkey.
Amber Sun
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Post by Amber Sun »

Bryn Mawr;1136935 wrote: Konya itself was chaotic and hard to take in but the "Mevlevi Cultural Centre" as it is now called was the total opposite - an island of calm and tranquility.

The mausoleums were certainly impressive - every major leader of the sect since the thirteenth century is interred there and the ?sarcophagi? are awesome. You can tell the rank of each by the hight and the number of turban rings on the ceremonial head-dress resting on top - these hats were massive, up to six feet tall and it's difficult to know how a person could wear one.

After passing through the Mausoleum we moved into what is now the museum, it would have been the cloistered area of the monastery before dissolution, with an impressive display of the history of the place.

Sadly, they did not hold a public ceremony the day we were there and we could not stretch our stay so we did not see them dancing - a reconstruction was as close as we managed, but certainly one of the real highlights of our drive around central Turkey.


It's really too bad you missed the ceremony, watching them all twirl would certainly be something to see. I understand though that some can twirl for many hours at one time. I tried it a few times and made it as long as 3 minutes before I got dizzy and fell to the floor on my backside. Needless to say I gave it up.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Amber Sun;1138791 wrote: It's really too bad you missed the ceremony, watching them all twirl would certainly be something to see. I understand though that some can twirl for many hours at one time. I tried it a few times and made it as long as 3 minutes before I got dizzy and fell to the floor on my backside. Needless to say I gave it up.


Technique and lots of practice I think :-)
Tater Tazz
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Post by Tater Tazz »

I find witch craft to be interesting in the least. I visited Salem Mass. the witch city. It was different. Went to the witch museum. I found that interesting because they said there were no witches just a little girls imagination. (Ann Putnam) Would'nt you know it, the witch was on vacation when I went. :wah:
Amber Sun
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Post by Amber Sun »

Tater Tazz;1138812 wrote: I find witch craft to be interesting in the least. I visited Salem Mass. the witch city. It was different. Went to the witch museum. I found that interesting because they said there were no witches just a little girls imagination. (Ann Putnam) Would'nt you know it, the witch was on vacation when I went. :wah:


In a way what you were told is true, there are no witches, yet at the same time it is wrong. Google salem/ergot and look for an educational site.



To say that 'witches' don't exist is like saying that Buddhists, Hindus, and Christians don't exist. The term 'witch' is exactly that, a way of describing a particular belief system just as the other terms describe their ways of believing. It is important to remember that all through history humankind has created gods and goddesses to explain the formation of all that there is and all that happens or doesn't happen. The 'choice' of the Divine Child that is to be worshiped and the attendant rituals and the concepts that accompany that belief system are culturally oriented. These are passed down from one generation to the next within any given society. But as you are aware many people 'switch' belief systems leaving the norms and beliefs of the society they were raised in and choose another path.

With science now explaining DNA, the atom (the foundation of all that exists on this planet), individuals feel freer to choose alternate belief systems, some even reverting to the ancient belief systems, hence pagans/witches. It is no more than a belief system and has no more power and no less power than the other belief systems mentioned.

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