Noughts Crosses

This is our starting point. Discussions about any or all TV shows. The more popular shows will eventually have their own forum.
User avatar
spot
Posts: 37600
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Noughts Crosses

Post by spot »

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/ ... -race-bait

The BBC has made a huge error of judgment in broadcasting this. The makers made a huge error of judgment in producing it in the first place and the actors should have known better. I have no problem with the author having written it as a didactic tale for literate teenagers twenty years ago but that's not the same as TV at all.

The intentions are fine, the mirroring of white colonial attitudes is fine, putting it on TV as drama has found an entirely different audience. There are a million thick-as-a-plank unemployable white tossers of both sexes in England who will cheer on the English Defence League by the time this program has finished, their attitudes will be fixed for a generation and it should never have happened. The only lesson they're taking away from the program is "we warned you, we told you so".

This is a catastrophic misjudgment. The BBC will look back on it like it looks back on Jim'll Fix It. It is impossible to think of any way in which this will work out well.
Nullius in verba|||||||||||
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 15743
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Noughts Crosses

Post by Bryn Mawr »

spot;1531178 wrote: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/ ... -race-bait

The BBC has made a huge error of judgment in broadcasting this. The makers made a huge error of judgment in producing it in the first place and the actors should have known better. I have no problem with the author having written it as a didactic tale for literate teenagers twenty years ago but that's not the same as TV at all.

The intentions are fine, the mirroring of white colonial attitudes is fine, putting it on TV as drama has found an entirely different audience. There are a million thick-as-a-plank unemployable white tossers of both sexes in England who will cheer on the English Defence League by the time this program has finished, their attitudes will be fixed for a generation and it should never have happened. The only lesson they're taking away from the program is "we warned you, we told you so".

This is a catastrophic misjudgment. The BBC will look back on it like it looks back on Jim'll Fix It. It is impossible to think of any way in which this will work out well.


Totally agree
User avatar
Saint_
Posts: 3292
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: The Four Corners

Noughts Crosses

Post by Saint_ »

Hmmm...I'd better watch this to see why everyone is so worked up... =^..^=
User avatar
LarsMac
Posts: 11872
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Far Out, Man

Noughts Crosses

Post by LarsMac »

Just another "Trading Places" sort of thing.
“in prayer, it is better to have a heart without words than words without heart.”
― Bunyan
User avatar
spot
Posts: 37600
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Noughts Crosses

Post by spot »

LarsMac;1531245 wrote: Just another "Trading Places" sort of thing.


If you're talking about the 1983 comedy film then no, this is far far nastier.
Nullius in verba|||||||||||
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!
User avatar
LarsMac
Posts: 11872
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Far Out, Man

Noughts Crosses

Post by LarsMac »

spot;1531248 wrote: If you're talking about the 1983 comedy film then no, this is far far nastier.


No I was not referring to any specific flick. Just the basic theme.
“in prayer, it is better to have a heart without words than words without heart.”
― Bunyan
User avatar
spot
Posts: 37600
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Noughts Crosses

Post by spot »

LarsMac;1531251 wrote: No I was not referring to any specific flick. Just the basic theme.


Noughts & Crosses isn't people trading places, it's an alternative history in which Europe was colonized around 1300 from Africa, the whites were enslaved and sold into plantations in the New World and the black colonial masters run the countries of Europe - it's an exact intentional mirroring of white suptremacy just emerging from apartheid and miscegenation laws. I don't think you can boil that down to "Trading Places", least of all if you have no example to compare with.
Nullius in verba|||||||||||
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!
User avatar
LarsMac
Posts: 11872
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Far Out, Man

Noughts Crosses

Post by LarsMac »

spot;1531255 wrote: Noughts & Crosses isn't people trading places, it's an alternative history in which Europe was colonized around 1300 from Africa, the whites were enslaved and sold into plantations in the New World and the black colonial masters run the countries of Europe - it's an exact intentional mirroring of white suptremacy just emerging from apartheid and miscegenation laws. I don't think you can boil that down to "Trading Places", least of all if you have no example to compare with.


Heinlein once wrote something along those lines, and there are numerous alternative history stories that brush upon the concept.

Mostly I remember from my adolescent bookworm years.

I suppose we will have to see if this one finds its way across the Pond on BritBox.
“in prayer, it is better to have a heart without words than words without heart.”
― Bunyan
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

Noughts Crosses

Post by gmc »

Haven't seen this or read the book but I can't say I agree with you. Racism is a man made construct - you can look back and see how colour became used as a means to justify slavery by christian and muslim(children of ham and all that nonsense) alike and carried over in to simple racism against asians and anyone that is different. Not talking about it or challenging leaves it open for far right opinions to gain traction we're already seeing it and the sights are very soon turned on anyone who disagrees with them. the so called liberal elite that have never actually been in power but somehow get blamed for all our ills. Nothing to do with fifty years of right wing governments determined to undermine the welfare state and sell off all our assets to the highest bidder, tenn years of tory austerity and labour impotence or the public schoolboys busily running the place now hell bent on selling the last thing of value the NHS.

If the right (fascism) gets a hold it will take generations to curb it again democracy and freedom are destroyed from within not by other nations or peoples. I suppose in a way it's to the credit of humanity they have to convince themselves someone is inferior in order to enslave and exploit them.

The only reason europe became so dominant was an accident of geography we industrialised first and developed cannon and firearms before anyone else. For most of history europe was a backwater.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 15743
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Noughts Crosses

Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1531330 wrote:

The only reason europe became so dominant was an accident of geography we industrialised first and developed cannon and firearms before anyone else. For most of history europe was a backwater.


The other major factor was that we lived in conditions that bred several nasty diseases that we then developed a resistance to.

When we moved to other parts of the world we killed far more by infection than with weapons.
User avatar
Betty Boop
Posts: 15557
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:17 pm
Location: The end of the World

Noughts Crosses

Post by Betty Boop »

I'm watching, it is very violent.

I'm still taking it in and trying to work out its possible impact, when you guys first made your claims I was a bit 'what, really??' But, given how Handmaids Tale adaptation has been interpreted by some I shouldn't be surprised really.

On another forum people are arguing the toss as to how it could never have happened that way because of history. Which is curious and seems obvious they've never heard of fictional dystopia.

I'm enjoying the clothes, they are stunning and bright. Little things like the mimicking of the hair styles, the colour of the plasters, all little to things that make you think, those little bits make me wonder if this would be best placed within education as a 'watch this - now discuss' for those students who just don't engage with books well.
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

Noughts Crosses

Post by gmc »

You might find this particular experiment of interest. I remember seeing it at the time.







The last link is a fairly recent interview with jane elliot, worth watchng.

Return to “General TV Shows”