Freedom from accountability

User avatar
spot
Posts: 38613
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Freedom from accountability

Post by spot »

Odd things happen once a person puts on a uniform, but the most obvious is the sense of unfettered power it generates in the mind of the wearer.

Speaking solely for myself I think I'd just ban uniforms.

Lawyers: St. Jude patient injured by security at Memphis airport

It is absolutely impossible for this to have happened without copious video footage being taken by automatic cameras in the Memphis Airport security zone. I insist on its all being put into the public domain immediately.

The idea that the thugs in uniform might stand trial for assault is, of course, as always, laughably remote, but I'd still like to see the video evidence.
Nullius in verba|||||||||||
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!
User avatar
tude dog
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:48 am

Freedom from accountability

Post by tude dog »

spot;1498442 wrote: Odd things happen once a person puts on a uniform, but the most obvious is the sense of unfettered power it generates in the mind of the wearer.

Speaking solely for myself I think I'd just ban uniforms.

Lawyers: St. Jude patient injured by security at Memphis airport

It is absolutely impossible for this to have happened without copious video footage being taken by automatic cameras in the Memphis Airport security zone. I insist on its all being put into the public domain immediately.

The idea that the thugs in uniform might stand trial for assault is, of course, as always, laughably remote, but I'd still like to see the video evidence.


It would have been nice if Mom had called ahead. Let somebody know.

The uniform thing, though, I don't see the connection.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson
User avatar
spot
Posts: 38613
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Freedom from accountability

Post by spot »

tude dog;1498477 wrote: The uniform thing, though, I don't see the connection.


The sense of unfettered power that a uniform generates in the mind of the wearer. I could give examples if that helps.

If the security videos are released, you'll see what I mean.
Nullius in verba|||||||||||
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!
Bruv
Posts: 12181
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:05 pm

Freedom from accountability

Post by Bruv »

spot;1498479 wrote: The sense of unfettered power that a uniform generates in the mind of the wearer. I could give examples if that helps.

If the security videos are released, you'll see what I mean.


It is the type of person, not the uniform..........or else all uniform wearers would be affected and they are not, the uniform may attract a certain sort of person but they would be the same in or out of an uniform.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
User avatar
Snowfire
Posts: 4835
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:34 am

Freedom from accountability

Post by Snowfire »

I've been a uniform wearer. I wore one, of one type or another as a young man, for four years. I'm sure my upbringing, my parents insistence that I show good manners at all times and my innate sense of what's right and wrong, prevented me from being anything other than a very smart and responsible member of Madge's Armed Forces. My Sergeant Major had a hand in it too.

My Grandmother looked a picture dressed in her tram conductors uniform and my Dad turned out alright too
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."

Winston Churchill
User avatar
spot
Posts: 38613
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Freedom from accountability

Post by spot »

I note what you say and I don't for a moment dispute any of it.

Let me ask, though, because the answer will interest me. Think of Orgreave. I'm quite sure no policeman present was a volunteer. All of them were instructed to be there in full battlegear, truncheons at the ready, horses wound up, orders to be followed to the letter.

Most of them will have done exactly that. Some will have enjoyed doing so. Very few will have come out of that day with a shred of integrity or honour. They did what they were paid to do and that's their shame.

I'm not sure how your sense of what is right and wrong would have survived a tour of Northern Ireland had you found yourself in a similar position over there. Interacting with unarmed civilians is the acid test of projected power. If you want to tease out the problem of the uniformed services you have to start with an asymmetric application of force by the state, which is where the opening post began. By all means go back and focus on it.

I'll concede this was rarely an issue for tram conductors.
Nullius in verba|||||||||||
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!
User avatar
Snowfire
Posts: 4835
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:34 am

Freedom from accountability

Post by Snowfire »

spot;1498493 wrote: I note what you say and I don't for a moment dispute any of it.

Let me ask, though, because the answer will interest me. Think of Orgreave. I'm quite sure no policeman present was a volunteer. All of them were instructed to be there in full battlegear, truncheons at the ready, horses wound up, orders to be followed to the letter.

Most of them will have done exactly that. Some will have enjoyed doing so. Very few will have come out of that day with a shred of integrity or honour. They did what they were paid to do and that's their shame.

I'm not sure how your sense of what is right and wrong would have survived a tour of Northern Ireland had you found yourself in a similar position over there. Interacting with unarmed civilians is the acid test of projected power. If you want to tease out the problem of the uniformed services you have to start with an asymmetric application of force by the state, which is where the opening post began. By all means go back and focus on it.

I'll concede this was rarely an issue for tram conductors.


Of course your right. Although, I was being a little facetious in my reply, I believe in the point that I made.

I do understand your point and I agree. I'd like to think the uniform empowered the wearer with pride of what it represented rather than simply elevating their sense of authority, although that in essence is what it is supposed to do. That elevation of authority clearly leads to an over inflated sense of self importance which then can channel into inappropriate and even dangerous behaviour. I'm certain though, there were a fair amount of police officers at Orgreave who would have been ashamed at the overall behaviour of the police in general. We can lay blame for that squarely on the shoulders of those that use their positions of political power to utilise Police and Soldiers as tools of control. That the sight of certain US police officers, even more out of control, asks even more questions, though I suspect the gun they hold in their hand might answer some of them.

My sense of right and wrong did indeed survive a tour of Northern Ireland. Jubilee year. 1977. I did indeed interact, personally several times, with unarmed civilians. Never once did any situation escalate out of control, though I've always put that down to my boyish good looks and that carefree glint in my eye.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."

Winston Churchill
User avatar
minks
Posts: 26281
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:58 pm

Freedom from accountability

Post by minks »

perhaps it's not just a uniform thing,

Yes I agree if you don a uniform there should be a sense of pride.

However some people will put on a uniform to belong to a "gang" or "pack" to support a gang like mentality. Power in numbers, belonging to some sort of recognized unity, a strength to almost show off, and go above and beyond be it for the good or the bad.

I can think of no better term than gang mentality for some people.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�

― Mae West
User avatar
LarsMac
Posts: 12323
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Far Out, Man

Freedom from accountability

Post by LarsMac »

Most people I know who wear a uniform are more concerned for what they bring to the uniform than what the uniform might bring them.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
-Susan Hattie Steinsapir

Return to “Crimes Trials”