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Post by flopstock »

What is irritating to me is the way the blacks on all these talk shows can be as racist and stereotyping as they'd like in their comments on the white population and they don't ever really get called on it.



If a white person had suggested that 98% of blacks are racist, the panel would not have chuckled like they did when the black woman suggested it on Dr Drew last night. The only person to even mildly challenge her on the statement was another black woman on the panel.



CNN is pretty much worthless as a news organization anymore..:thinking:
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Post by Accountable »

gmc;1431685 wrote: [...] trayon is being followed by a male for no apparent reason, presumably a bigger stronger one at that


Note: There's no way to know who really initiated contact, but I didn't make the graphic.

gmc;1431689 wrote: If you follow someone and threaten them
We know that Zimmerman threatened him? How could we know that?
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Post by tude dog »

valerie;1431651 wrote:

If I was on that jury, GZ's photos would be enough to cause reasonable

doubt for me. Finding him not guilty does NOT mean any of those jurors

don't think he did wrong. They didn't find him innocent (semantics raising

its' head again!) of everything. There's a difference.


This interview with juror B37 is very informative. May clear up some things, even for gmc.

Here is a summary of the 36 minute video.

JUROR: ZIMMERMAN HAD RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF

What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

What a load. Trayvon was not 6'3'' but 5'11'' & a bit over 150 lbs. I contend it was Trayvon defending himself. Yes, there are things we can't know. There is only one witness & that is the man acquitted. The state, though, should not have overcharged him. That is also why the same state lost the Casey Anthony trial. Overcharging, overblowing evidence.
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Post by johnmont »

Ahso!;1431462 wrote: ......

Zimmerman Verdict: Why Is the Right Worried About Race Riots? | Mother JonesThey are not worried about race riots ,they WANT race riots.



:yh_devil
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

valerie;1431651 wrote: And if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, then we'd all have a

Merry Christmas!

IF TV had asked GZ why he was following him, and/or explained

he was just coming back from the store. IF GZ had told TV, hey,

we've had a lot of break-ins in the neighborhood recently. IF

TV had stopped and called 911 himself, instead of talking to his

GF. IF TV had just stopped, and waited for police to show up and

realize what was going on. IF GZ had just stopped, and ditto.

If I was on that jury, GZ's photos would be enough to cause reasonable

doubt for me. Finding him not guilty does NOT mean any of those jurors

don't think he did wrong. They didn't find him innocent (semantics raising

its' head again!) of everything. There's a difference.


I think your comments in bold are unrealistic. Black teenage boys in the South don't call the police, and for good reason. Police don't listen to black teenage boys. And, the most important thing is that Trayvon was a teenage boy. Zimmerman was the adult, not Trayvon, Zimmerman should have identified himself immediately, but especially should not have followed him. Don't put the onus on the victim. Like telling a raped girl "your skirt is too short." The jury didn't find him innocent, true, but he walks & goes on with his life.

They weren't equal. Zimmerman is an adult & Trayon Was a kid. Kids think like kids & Zimmerman acted like one, but isn't.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Bruv;1431642 wrote: Could it be paranoia ?

Over here...................I may upset some people.........the type that might carry a gun, have a pit bull on a lead....................to make themselves feel safe.


Absolutely Paranoia & Self-Fulfilling Prophecies.

When I lived in New Hampshire almost everyone had a carry permit. There were never more than 3 murders a year (population approx. one million). Three.

However, people today are definitely more paranoid, are more touchy, are more easily frightened & offended. It appeared to begin when Obama was first elected & screwy white folks felt threatened by this, felt he was elected only to ruin their lives & take their guns away. Those tea bagging parties just added fuel to this fire, Fox News too. IMO, of course.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

TD: "Ann, let me tell you 'bout the two most important women in my life."

The problem doesn't appear to be women with guns TD. Guns are the equalizers, to counterbalance the physical strength of men in violent situations. The problem overwhelmingly is men with guns.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Valerie: "Anne, I respectfully disagree that looting didn't take place. It most

definitely HAS. At least somewhat locally, in Oakland, California."

I don't like it either, Val. Thank goodness it was not widespread. But, what about stuff like soccer riots, caused by white men? Or other riots when a sports team doesn't win? That's even crazier.
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Post by valerie »

AnneBoleyn;1431744 wrote: I think your comments in bold are unrealistic. Black teenage boys in the South don't call the police, and for good reason. Police don't listen to black teenage boys. And, the most important thing is that Trayvon was a teenage boy. Zimmerman was the adult, not Trayvon, Zimmerman should have identified himself immediately, but especially should not have followed him. Don't put the onus on the victim. Like telling a raped girl "your skirt is too short." The jury didn't find him innocent, true, but he walks & goes on with his life.

They weren't equal. Zimmerman is an adult & Trayon Was a kid. Kids think like kids & Zimmerman acted like one, but isn't.


Of course they're unrealistic, that was sort of my point.

I'm not putting anything on the victim, let me be very clear here, that TM's death did sadden

me very much. And I resent the analogy you used.

Police would in fact listen to this teenage boy, especially if a call (from GZ) had already come in.

It's happened to me in my neighborhood in at least one instance. Where dispatch had already

taken a call about something, and subsequently get mine and speed everybody up and/or add

more officers/cars to the response.

Both of these males did act in ways that they shouldn't have. In that they were equal.

As to your other comment about riots, they are crazy and they DO cause injury and death.

But getting any of those involved to think before doing is a losing battle.
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Post by tude dog »

A young man defends himself from an attack by, a, uh

So race baiters circle the mob, demand a lynching. An expensive trial which exonerates the accused.

Not enough for the race baiters make a big deal over the death of one teenage idiot.

Meanwhile,

Four Children Gunned Down in Chicago During Zimmerman Trial

(CNSNews.com) – In the 20-day period of the George Zimmerman trial, four minors – three teens and a five-year-old boy - were gunned down in Chicago, according to Homicide Watch Chicago, a Chicago Sun-Times publication, which details every murder that takes place in the city.


Every year there are hundreds of murders in Chicago, and the race baiters pick George Zimmerman to make a stand.

Could have picked other cities, but Chicago is just so ripe,

HeyJackass
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
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Post by tude dog »

AnneBoleyn;1431748 wrote: TD: "Ann, let me tell you 'bout the two most important women in my life."

The problem doesn't appear to be women with guns TD. Guns are the equalizers, to counterbalance the physical strength of men in violent situations. The problem overwhelmingly is men with guns.


And all men are equal?

give it up ann
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She had the black vote all locked up.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

No, TD, I will never give up. You've said nothing to change my mind, only to solidify it. You have that affect on people.
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Post by Wandrin »

Let me see if I understand the convoluted logic of this case.

An armed stalker follows his target more and more closely until he manages to induce fear in his target. The target then turns to defend himself under Florida's stand your ground law. By defending himself, the target gives the armed stalker justification to shoot and kill the stalker, because he is suddenly afraid that his target might adequately defend himself.

So, both the target and the stalker were justified in their actions by the same law, but the one that uses deadly force becomes the one most justified?
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Post by valerie »

No, Wandrin. The stand your ground law did not enter into this case.

I know a lot of people think it did, but it didn't. The "target" was not

defending himself, he was the aggressor.

Soon we'll get trial transcripts. Then you guys can read more. Read

how the chief of police testified he believed GZ was telling the truth.
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Post by Snooz »

valerie;1431764 wrote: No, Wandrin. The stand your ground law did not enter into this case.

I know a lot of people think it did, but it didn't. The "target" was not

defending himself, he was the aggressor.

Soon we'll get trial transcripts. Then you guys can read more. Read

how the chief of police testified he believed GZ was telling the truth.


And we'll still have members here saying Zimmerman pursued TM and shot him in the back as he tried to run away from the madman with a gun. It's a lesson in futility.
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Post by Wandrin »

valerie;1431764 wrote: No, Wandrin. The stand your ground law did not enter into this case.

I know a lot of people think it did, but it didn't. The "target" was not

defending himself, he was the aggressor.

Soon we'll get trial transcripts. Then you guys can read more. Read

how the chief of police testified he believed GZ was telling the truth.


Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. So, since the stand your ground law did not apply, the kid was not justified in defending himself from the perceived threat of the armed stalker? Or he was too zealous in his defense? Or something else alltogether.

I guess I should just wait until all the information is released before trying to figure it out.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

gmc

I understand your frustration in this case I am also.

I don't like the race card being played and being the main focus.

All these protests going on - which seem to be majority blacks and then they start fighting among themselves - news showed ugly beatings :-5

They're holding signs to support one black young man - & beat the hell out of other young black men.

I don't get it?

File the Race Card in the garbage

GZ move to save location & we'll wait for the next senseless gun killing.

We won't need to wait long.

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Post by valerie »

SnoozeAgain;1431765 wrote: And we'll still have members here saying Zimmerman pursued TM and shot him in the back as he tried to run away from the madman with a gun. It's a lesson in futility.


That it is, my dear. That it is.
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Post by valerie »

Wandrin;1431766 wrote: Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. So, since the stand your ground law did not apply, the kid was not justified in defending himself from the perceived threat of the armed stalker? Or he was too zealous in his defense? Or something else alltogether.

I guess I should just wait until all the information is released before trying to figure it out.


Trying to work through it now is not a bad thing, I don't think.

TM had no way of knowing GZ had a gun. GZ had a concealed weapons permit. We can never know

for sure, but again, from all I've heard/read/watched about the case, TM could in fact have just

continued on home. He made the decision (and yes, a 17 year old young man's decision) to

turn around and confront GZ. And then at least in some form, do physical harm. NOT that he

should have died for, I agree.

The 911 call, listened to in its' entirety, is very interesting. GZ is asked about the suspect he

is watching, and he says right out, visibility is poor, but he thinks he's black. It's a descriptor,

it seems to me.
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Post by Scrat »

They weren't equal. Zimmerman is an adult & Trayon Was a kid. Kids think like kids & Zimmerman acted like one, but isn't.


Nowadays kids murder one another.
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Post by gmc »

posted by accountable

We know that Zimmerman threatened him? How could we know that?


He got out the car and followed him down the road. What would you think if someone did that to you? Would you find it intimidating or threatening in any way? Zimmerman did not have to get out the car and follow he was looking for trouble IMO. Had the races been the other way around would zimmerman not have been on trial for murder?
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Post by valerie »

Wandrin;1431763 wrote: Let me see if I understand the convoluted logic of this case.

An armed stalker follows his target more and more closely until he manages to induce fear in his target. The target then turns to defend himself under Florida's stand your ground law. By defending himself, the target gives the armed stalker justification to shoot and kill the stalker, because he is suddenly afraid that his target might adequately defend himself.

So, both the target and the stalker were justified in their actions by the same law, but the one that uses deadly force becomes the one most justified?


I need to do a couple of corrections here it seems, to clarify. When I said

stand your ground didn't apply, I meant it wasn't used as a defense by

Zimmerman. But now I am hearing that the judge did mention stand

your ground in instructions to the jury.

And I said "chief of police" and that was incorrect, it was a police

detective who said he believed Zimmerman.

Also for those talking about the race aspect, I'd like to mention

that GZ had a black prom date, voted for Barack Obama, and

apparently mentored black kids for several years.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Valerie: "Also for those talking about the race aspect, I'd like to mention

that GZ had a black prom date, voted for Barack Obama, and

apparently mentored black kids for several years."

I doubt he's a racist in the Klan sense, but he racially profiled the dead kid as a potential trouble-maker.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Scrat;1431775 wrote: Nowadays kids murder one another.


What's the point? People murder each other, period.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

tude dog;1431757 wrote: A young man defends himself from an attack by, a, uh

So race baiters circle the mob, demand a lynching. An expensive trial which exonerates the accused.

Not enough for the race baiters make a big deal over the death of one teenage idiot.

Meanwhile,

Four Children Gunned Down in Chicago During Zimmerman Trial



Every year there are hundreds of murders in Chicago, and the race baiters pick George Zimmerman to make a stand.

Could have picked other cities, but Chicago is just so ripe,

HeyJackass


Aw cut the crap TD. The race baiter is you. And, those black kids in Chicago? You couldn't care less if they all killed each other. You bring up the subject only to deflect. You don't like certain folks. You have a bias against them. Stop hiding behind dead kids.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

SnoozeAgain;1431765 wrote: And we'll still have members here saying Zimmerman pursued TM and shot him in the back as he tried to run away from the madman with a gun. It's a lesson in futility.


I haven't seen anyone say that Snooze. Did I miss something?
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Post by Ahso! »

Good job, Anne, you nailed all four of them.

Some of the comments in this thread have claimed a height of absurdity rarely achieved, even on an internet forum. Probably not Facebook though, where I'm sure at least some of this BS has come from.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Snooz »

AnneBoleyn;1431814 wrote: I haven't seen anyone say that Snooze. Did I miss something?


Oh, excuse me... it was "pussy with a gun."
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Post by Ahso! »

SnoozeAgain;1431818 wrote: Oh, excuse me... it was "pussy with a gun."Well, that's pretty much what everyone on the defense side has portrayed Zimmerman as, isn't it?

I don't claim to know exactly what chain of events took place that night (nor do I claim to know the testosterone levels of those involved :wah:), but I know this: a guy who was a neighborhood watch person happened to stumble upon a perceived event he'd been keenly aware of hoping to prevent one day and couldn't resist the passion to not let it pass him by. He ended up in a situation he was woefully and inadequately prepared for, and that was a fistfight. What he got was his ass kicked and ended up shooting the person who was a better fighter. Now George Zimmerman will be poor for the rest of his days and haunted by the fact that he's known as the national poster boy for "Pussies".

I'd bet he'd rather have died that fateful night. Or at least shook hands with his opponent afterwards and said "no hard feelings!"
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

SnoozeAgain;1431818 wrote: Oh, excuse me... it was "pussy with a gun."


Hardly the same thing Snooze. If bravery only comes with a weapon, than it's borrowed bravery, hardly the same thing as true courage.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ahso: "I'd bet he'd rather have died that fateful night."

I think not. However, what you said reminds me of the Shakespeare game we were playing.

A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once.

--from Julius Caesar
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Post by tude dog »

AnneBoleyn;1431812 wrote: Aw cut the crap TD. The race baiter is you.


Really? How so?

AnneBoleyn;1431812 wrote: And, those black kids in Chicago? You couldn't care less if they all killed each other.


Does it matter what i care?

I would think it more important to the so called leaders of Black folk.Why the obsession with George, as every year hundreds die in black on black crime, in Chicago alone.

AnneBoleyn;1431812 wrote: You bring up the subject only to deflect. You don't like certain folks. You have a bias against them. Stop hiding behind dead kids.


:confused:
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Post by Ahso! »

tude dog;1431823 wrote: Really? How so?This thread. Reread your OP.



tude dog;1431823 wrote: in black on black crime, in Chicago alone. I know you're feeling safe because Snooze made a similar statement twice in this thread that went unchallenged, but i notice neither one of you have offered any citations to back any of that up. Not that the two of you are necessarily wrong, but I'd like to see the actual statistics you're relying on.
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Post by flopstock »

I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.

Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6

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Post by Ahso! »

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by valerie »

AnneBoleyn;1431809 wrote: Valerie: "Also for those talking about the race aspect, I'd like to mention

that GZ had a black prom date, voted for Barack Obama, and

apparently mentored black kids for several years."

I doubt he's a racist in the Klan sense, but he racially profiled the dead kid as a potential trouble-maker.


Maybe you've only heard the edited version of GZ's 911 call. If so, listen to an unedited version, I'm sure

it's around. He was specifically asked to name the race of the person he was following. He DID not

volunteer it.
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Post by Scrat »

I'll put nothing past any kid walking the street in this society.

Police: Puyallup teen went into rage before attacking 7-year-old girl | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

I just heard Trayvon Martin was tossed out of his mothers house because she had given up on him. Mothers don't throw their children out of the house for no good reason. Trayvon was a punk.
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Post by Scrat »

You bring up the subject only to deflect. You don't like certain folks. You have a bias against them. Stop hiding behind dead kids.


I don't think he's hiding behind anything, people like you are the ones hiding. You simply refuse to see the problem. White is black and the sun rises in the west for you.
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Post by Ahso! »

Scrat;1431831 wrote: I just heard Trayvon Martin was tossed out of his mothers house because she had given up on him. Mothers don't throw their children out of the house for no good reason. Trayvon was a punk.And where did you hear this from, Scrat? A lot of young people go through periods of difficult times.

And your generalization regarding mothers is absurd.

And what's your point anyhow, that Martin deserved to die because you've decided he was a punk? He and Zimmerman got into a fistfight.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Ahso! »

The irony of this entire discussion is that some of you are defending Zimmerman for being smart enough to have a gun on him but Martin is being ravaged for having been smart enough to know how to fight. That is very, very screwy reasoning, which reveals something deeper about those who see this situation in that light.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Scrat

Tude Dog did say " now the gene pool is cleaner"

wonder what that means?

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Post by Ahso! »

valerie;1431830 wrote: Maybe you've only heard the edited version of GZ's 911 call. If so, listen to an unedited version, I'm sure

it's around. He was specifically asked to name the race of the person he was following. He DID not

volunteer it.Your point here is what, that you know what Zimmerman was thinking by that exchange with the dispatcher? He didn't see a black kid from the get-go?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Be the wave that I am and then

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Post by Ahso! »

Scrat;1431832 wrote: I don't think he's hiding behind anything, people like you are the ones hiding. You simply refuse to see the problem. White is black and the sun rises in the west for you.Please tell us directly and clearly exactly what the "problem" is then, Scrat.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Ahso! »

Patsy Warnick;1431836 wrote: Scrat

Tude Dog did say " now the gene pool is cleaner"

wonder what that means?

PatsyI doubt you'll get an answer to your very good question. But if in fact you do, I'm sure gonna enjoy it.
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Post by Accountable »

De'Marquise Elkins Trial For Allegedly Shooting Baby Antonio Santiago In Stroller Should Take Place This Year: Judge

Gee. 17-year-old black guy shoots & kills a 13-month-old white hispanic child. D'ya think we can expect 24-7 coverage and impending race riots?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

What's confusing, Scrat, is the innocence you attest to the Palestinian & other Arab peoples. I'm not saying you are wrong to do so (although I think you throw a blanket of guiltlessness upon them) but what's perplexing is that you don't even seem to like any other group, & at times that appears to include all Western white people. What gives?
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Accountable;1431845 wrote: De'Marquise Elkins Trial For Allegedly Shooting Baby Antonio Santiago In Stroller Should Take Place This Year: Judge

Gee. 17-year-old black guy shoots & kills a 13-month-old white hispanic child. D'ya think we can expect 24-7 coverage and impending race riots?


If you expect every murder in this country demands equal coverage, we would do nothing else. Some of the cases chosen for extreme reporting are deplorable though, i.e. Casey Anthony, Jodie Arias, the "sexy" trials & tribulations.
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

valerie;1431830 wrote: Maybe you've only heard the edited version of GZ's 911 call. If so, listen to an unedited version, I'm sure

it's around. He was specifically asked to name the race of the person he was following. He DID not

volunteer it.


Thanks, val, but I've heard everything. The fact that he was asked for race doesn't alter what was already in his mind; he knew who he was following.
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AnneBoleyn
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Scrat;1431832 wrote: I don't think he's hiding behind anything, people like you are the ones hiding. You simply refuse to see the problem. White is black and the sun rises in the west for you.


Ho Hum. Yawn.

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