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tude dog
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Post by tude dog »

OK, this is not about the trial of the State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman.

Sure you heard of it, where a (white) Hispanic is accused of murdering this African American Trayvon Martin guy. Seems tomorrow it will be given to the jury.

Shooting of Trayvon Martin

If George Zimmerman is found guilty, expect a lot of bitching, letter writing etc.

If George is acquitted, maybe expect looting and burning?

Well duh. Does night follow day?

George Zimmerman trial: Authorities in Fla. urge people to "Raise your voice, not your hands," as verdict looms

(CBS) SANFORD, Fla. - The Broward Sheriff's Office is working with the Sanford Police Department and other local Florida law enforcement agencies in order to coordinate a response plan in anticipation of a verdict in the trial of George Zimmerman.


Am I the only one who considers this patronizing? Is the African American community one which should be address as juveniles/adolescents?

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Post by Snooz »

It's called "learning from history." I think this is a good idea.
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Post by Ahso! »

tude dog;1431438 wrote:

If George Zimmerman is found guilty, expect a lot of bitching, letter writing etc.

If George is acquitted, maybe expect looting and burning?

Well duh. Does night follow day?Are these supposed to be quotes or are they, as they appear, your words?
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Post by Bruv »

Can't say I have followed this one, only to say it has a big big thread on Stormfront.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

I am following this case very closely. There is a dead 17 year old, wrongfully assumed to be a criminal because of his youth & color by a pussy with a gun. That is the state of too many American men these days. Pussies with guns. Too cowardly to stand up like men, they shoot first instead, knowing our too loose gun laws might protect them from justice.
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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1431448 wrote: I am following this case very closely. There is a dead 17 year old, wrongfully assumed to be a criminal because of his youth & color by a pussy with a gun. That is the state of too many American men these days. Pussies with guns. Too cowardly to stand up like men, they shoot first instead, knowing our too loose gun laws might protect them from justice.The OP isn't about the case, its about the presumption that blacks will deal with disappointment with violence and criminal activity while non-blacks only complain and protest in written form. By the title of the thread "Let The Looting Begin' the author of the thread assumes it'll be a 'not guilty' verdict. He then ends the OP with a question that is completely inconsistent with the tone of the post preceding it.
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Post by Scrat »

I think the authorities should be ready for anything, up to and including massive rioting. I remember the Rodney King incident and the behavior that came with that. I also think the African American community has serious problems in their culture. Have a look at this.

Trayvon Martin & Negro Riots - YouTube

I have nothing against smelling the coffee. I think TD is being a realist.
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Post by tude dog »

Scrat;1431452 wrote: I think the authorities should be ready for anything, up to and including massive rioting. I remember the Rodney King incident and the behavior that came with that. I also think the African American community has serious problems in their culture. Have a look at this.

Trayvon Martin & Negro Riots - YouTube

I have nothing against smelling the coffee. I think TD is being a realist.


I am glad 5723michael brought out the the nonsense surrounding Martin while ignoring the slaughter in Chicago.

Hey Jackass
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Post by Accountable »

AnneBoleyn;1431448 wrote: I am following this case very closely. There is a dead 17 year old, wrongfully assumed to be a criminal because of his youth & color by a pussy with a gun. That is the state of too many American men these days. Pussies with guns. Too cowardly to stand up like men, they shoot first instead, knowing our too loose gun laws might protect them from justice.
It's good to see you being so fact-based and open-minded. /sarcasm
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Post by Ahso! »

You mean like your boy?
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Post by Ahso! »

Conservatives are fretting about angry black mobs and Florida law enforcement is preparing for the worst. Is any of this necessary?...So why all the fear of angry black mobs? In a recent Time column, Marc W. Polite notes that the last major race riot was in Los Angeles two decades ago, and African Americans have reacted peacefully to several recent racially charged verdicts, including the acquittal of the policeman who killed Sean Bell, a New York City man who was shot by cops while leaving his bachelor party. There have been more instances of nonviolent reactions to divisive trials than violent ones. And yet, when it comes to blacks and criminal justice, the riot question remains. That it keeps getting asked without any actual evidence that a riot will occur might say more about the biases and fears of the people asking than it does about African Americans....Darnell Hunt, a sociologist and the director of the University of California-Los Angeles' Ralph J. Bunche Center for African American Studies, says it's no surprise that certain people who "believe in the legitimacy of the system" are afraid of the actions of people who may believe the system has failed them. "It's a theme that emerges whenever there's a highly charged event that resonates with racial conflict and racial concern," Hunt notes. "I'm not surprised that folks who are attempting to sort of sensationalize what's going on right now would raise that particular trope again."


Zimmerman Verdict: Why Is the Right Worried About Race Riots? | Mother Jones
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

I realize I wasn't accurately responding to OP. Sorry about that. But the fact is, Accountable, etc. if a Pussy with a Gun wasn't out that night, (because without his gun he would have been too scared to be out, all alone in the dark) a boy going home, minding his own business, wouldn't have been shot dead & there would have been no need for this OP at all.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

excellent article, Ahso! Good counter points.
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Post by Snooz »

So it's better to be politically correct, not prepare and be wrong than to assume the worst and be prepared?

I think not. I don't care what color skin a person has, expecting the worst is usually the safest course.
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Post by Ahso! »

SnoozeAgain;1431468 wrote: So it's better to be politically correct, not prepare and be wrong than to assume the worst and be prepared?

I think not. I don't care what color skin a person has, expecting the worst is usually the safest course.I suppose you're responding to my post? I have no problem with preparedness, what I think the point in the MoJo articles is, is to not assume to the point of working up a frenzy along racial lines, which is what this thread seeks to do by parroting the paranoid right.
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Post by Ahso! »

Scrat;1431452 wrote: I think the authorities should be ready for anything, up to and including massive rioting. I remember the Rodney King incident and the behavior that came with that. I also think the African American community has serious problems in their culture. Have a look at this.

Trayvon Martin & Negro Riots - YouTube

I have nothing against smelling the coffee. I think TD is being a realist.This post says more about you than it does about anything else in this thread.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

I also see nothing wrong in police preparedness. They should always be prepared anyway. Even Rev. Al Sharpton understands this & for a few days now has been calling for cool heads to always prevail in this or any situation. It's an expectation though, as the MoJo article expresses that will IMO, be wrong & I hope Zimmerman gets the manslaughter, not the murder, verdict. If acquitted, violence, IMO, is not a certainty.
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Post by Snooz »

I'm not sure if looting is a certainty, but Zimmerman better keep his head down if he walks.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

SnoozeAgain;1431478 wrote: I'm not sure if looting is a certainty, but Zimmerman better keep his head down if he walks.


I'm sure he'll leave town, Snooze & he also holds a Peruvian passport. Maybe he is now in disguise & if he is acquitted he will take off his fat suit.
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Post by Bruv »

We have another 2731 posts before we exceed SF's post count on this.

Some are coherant.....................but not many (Not that I have read more than........2 or 3)
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Post by Snooz »

With the NSA watching us, I'm afraid to even google that site.
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Post by LarsMac »

I haven't really been following the case. Been a little busy.

Seems like it should be fairly clear-cut.

Seems to me he should be found guilty of manslaughter.

Why they tried this as a 1st degree Murder is beyond me.

He should not have confronted Martin, and he should not have been armed.

He was stupid.

Someone died.

Manslaughter.

Guilty.

Case closed.
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Post by Accountable »

AnneBoleyn;1431463 wrote: I realize I wasn't accurately responding to OP. Sorry about that. But the fact is, Accountable, etc. if a Pussy with a Gun wasn't out that night, (because without his gun he would have been too scared to be out, all alone in the dark) a boy going home, minding his own business, wouldn't have been shot dead & there would have been no need for this OP at all.Agreed, as far as it goes. Had there not been a neighborhood watch, it might not have been safe for a boy to be out, minding his own business or not. Sucks all the way around.
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Post by Accountable »

LarsMac;1431493 wrote: I haven't really been following the case. Been a little busy.

Seems like it should be fairly clear-cut.

Seems to me he should be found guilty of manslaughter.

Why they tried this as a 1st degree Murder is beyond me.

He should not have confronted Martin, and he should not have been armed.

He was stupid.

Someone died.

Manslaughter.

Guilty.

Case closed.
I think the charge was 2nd degree, and manslaughter wasn't available ... until the judge saw that the case wasn't winnable and allowed the jury to consider lesser charges. That's the part of our judicial system I don't get: disallowing the jury to consider lesser charges. But this sudden change I think is wrong. The defense might have strategized differently.
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Post by Snooz »

I can see Zimmerman's side to this too... at least his side as it's been presented to us. He sees an unknown person walking through his neighborhood at night, a neighborhood that's been hit by crime often enough that they've formed their own neighborhood watch, he follows the person... not a child, a tall male... and the person starts dodging behind buildings. Maybe he noticed the person was Black, maybe the hoodie raised a warning sign, but the actions of this tall male made Zimmerman nervous enough to call 911.

I doubt any of us would have reacted any differently up to this point.

From there, it sounds like Z lost Martin, but Martin didn't lose Z. If the witness testimony is correct, Martin attacked Z and was pounding his head on the pavement. Gun gets fired, someone dies.

I still don't see how Zimmerman can be blamed for this. He was doing his neighborhood watch job after all. Martin should have just kept walking. "Hey, what are you doing?" "Just walking home, man" "Oh, okay"
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Snooze: "He sees an unknown person walking through his neighborhood at night".

Night? It was between 6 & 7PM. And yes, we can't know everyone who walks through our neighborhoods. Sometimes, these "strangers" are guests, lost, or New Neighbors.

Snooze: "I still don't see how Zimmerman can be blamed for this. He was doing his neighborhood watch job after all. Martin should have just kept walking. "Hey, what are you doing?"

Zimmerman Did Not Identify himself or ask anything. And, if so, Trayvon, anyone, could answer "None of your #%$&*+!! business, that's what." But the point is, Zimmerman was just a man following a kid. And whether Trayvon was tall or short, fat or thin, a kid is a kid with a kid's brain & mind.

Also, Zimmerman does not claim he was On Watch that night. He claimed to be going out to a Store. With his gun, of course. He stopped his shopping trip because he had to know. Sherriff George had to know everyone walking through his town in the Wild West, USA.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Accountable;1431496 wrote: Agreed, as far as it goes. Had there not been a neighborhood watch, it might not have been safe for a boy to be out, minding his own business or not. Sucks all the way around.


Oh for God's sake, we're turning into a nation of scardy cats. I have walked on two continents, alone, without a piece & without fear. What the heck is going on with us----We are turning into a Nation of Pussies With Guns, that's what. Where a punch in the nose gets the death penalty. Are you so seriously afraid, Accountable? Using common sense is the best weapon anyone could have.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Anne

Authorities didn't press charges until the Black Community threw a fit and made this a racial event.

The jury has to have doubt - not sure how Zimmerman could be blamed for this.

Oh, Anne - you made me laugh actually throw a punch & be done with the incident.

" A Nation of pussies with guns" :yh_rotfl - your right..

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Post by LarsMac »

AnneBoleyn;1431505 wrote: Snooze: "He sees an unknown person walking through his neighborhood at night".

Night? It was between 6 & 7PM. And yes, we can't know everyone who walks through our neighborhoods. Sometimes, these "strangers" are guests, lost, or New Neighbors.

Snooze: "I still don't see how Zimmerman can be blamed for this. He was doing his neighborhood watch job after all. Martin should have just kept walking. "Hey, what are you doing?"

Zimmerman Did Not Identify himself or ask anything. And, if so, Trayvon, anyone, could answer "None of your #%$&*+!! business, that's what." But the point is, Zimmerman was just a man following a kid. And whether Trayvon was tall or short, fat or thin, a kid is a kid with a kid's brain & mind.

Also, Zimmerman does not claim he was On Watch that night. He claimed to be going out to a Store. With his gun, of course. He stopped his shopping trip because he had to know. Sherriff George had to know everyone walking through his town in the Wild West, USA.


6 or 7 PM in February, it is dark out.

I am fairly well-trained with handguns and I know better than to wonder out into the dark looking for a suspicious person, alone. He should have simply reported the guy and let the police handle it. The dispatcher should have told him so.

I am sorry this happened, and no matter the verdict, it cannot end well.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Lars

Authorities told Zimmerman not to pursue.

Patsy
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Post by Snooz »

I don't know how neighborhood watch works. If you're off-duty, do you just ignore something that doesn't look right?

As far as "authorities" telling Z not to follow, the dispatcher, who has no authority at all, said something to the effect of "you don't need to do that".

Edited to add: Anne, if concealed weapons bother you, you should never visit Utah... they hand out permits like candy here.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Concealed weapons don't bother me. I had a concealed carry permit in New Hampshire. It's the current attitude, that a punch deserves a shot that I have difficulty with. It's the fear & suspicion that gun owners have today that makes any situation dangerous.
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Post by Snooz »

I can't argue with that.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

LM: "6 or 7 PM in February, it is dark out."

I know single women in their eighties & beyond who would laugh their heads off at that remark. I am astounded at the fear that abounds; astonished.
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Post by Scrat »

I have to say that I am on Zimmermanns side here, his right of self defense. Zimm didn't have to follow him, that is true. Martin didn't have to confront him either. I've been followed more than once in my life. Why? Various reasons, since I was doing nothing but walking I didn't care. I have been asked to open my bag at stores. Should I attack the security guard verbally or even physically for asking me if he could look in my bag? On the few occasions this has happened I had nothing to hide so I did as I was politely asked and went on my way.

Around here if I see a black teenager that is not one of the children of Pat and James Ellison up the street I wonder what he's doing in my neighborhood. If I see a teenager that is white or hispanic I ask the same question because more than likely the little bastard is casing the hood, looking for an open door here or looking at the cars. Maybe Martin was just coming home from the 7-11. I'd bet he wasn't.

What this was, a series of escalations that led to Martins death which I see as self inflicted as he DID NOT have to attack Zimmermann.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

"Maybe Martin was just coming home from the 7-11. I'd bet he wasn't.

What this was, a series of escalations that led to Martins death which I see as self inflicted as he DID NOT have to attack Zimmermann."

"I'd bet he wasn't." But he WAS, so you would be wrong.

"he DID NOT have to attack Zimmermann." There is only one witness to that, the other is dead. Also, don't forget how dumb a 17 year old can be. If Zimmerman was afraid, maybe Trayvon was too.

eta--if the black or hispanic kid was not from the Ellison home, all that means is that in America we can walk where we want to. You wouldn't question my ability, or my right, to walk anywhere, & unfortunately for you, black or hispanic teens have the same rights I do. You'd have no right to ask me what I was doing there, & the same goes for them.
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Post by tude dog »

Accountable;1431497 wrote: I think the charge was 2nd degree, and manslaughter wasn't available ... until the judge saw that the case wasn't winnable and allowed the jury to consider lesser charges. That's the part of our judicial system I don't get: disallowing the jury to consider lesser charges. But this sudden change I think is wrong. The defense might have strategized differently.


I don't believe it went down that way.

More like as the prosecutions case going down in flames, started to add more charges. They actually withdrew an assault charge and admitted is a no go under the law. They then, at the last second went for some 3rd degree against a child. I mean that morning. Defense had a fit, and properly so .Judge didn't allow that.

Accountable;1431497 wrote: But this sudden change I think is wrong. The defense might have strategized differently.


I agree with that, but at the same time what difference does it make, legally?

Did Mr.Zimmerman legally defend himself according to Florida State law or not?

This whole thing has been a show trial to pacify mobs from the beginning.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

"Did Mr.Zimmerman legally defend himself according to Florida State law or not?

This whole thing has been a show trial to pacify mobs from the beginning."

1. The Defense team chose not to pursue "Stand your Ground" & went for self-defense instead. It is now up to the jury alone to decide.

2. Mobs. Too bad the Nazi's didn't pacify those mobs in the Warsaw Ghetto. Oh wait, they did.
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Post by Snooz »

Really? You're comparing this to WWII Poland? Oy vay, and I say that unironically.
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Post by tude dog »

SnoozeAgain;1431512 wrote: I don't know how neighborhood watch works. If you're off-duty, do you just ignore something that doesn't look right?

As far as "authorities" telling Z not to follow, the dispatcher, who has no authority at all, said something to the effect of "you don't need to do that".


Way back when wifey and I bought our first house, there was an attempt at neighborhood watch kind of thing. What I got from it is know your neighbors, keep an eye out.

Far as I know, there is no evidence that George patrolled the neighborhood. Actually he was going to or from a Target(?) store which he did every week at that time.

Fast forward, he is attacked. Defends himself. Assailant dies.

End of story, or it should be.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

SnoozeAgain;1431528 wrote: Really? You're comparing this to WWII Poland? Oy vay, and I say that unironically.


No, not seriously. Was being 'cheeky'. Just didn't like the use of the word MOB. A mob is in the eye of the beholder. To some, a mob, to others, people gathering in peaceful protest for the same goal.
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Post by tude dog »

AnneBoleyn;1431513 wrote: It's the current attitude, that a punch deserves a shot that I have difficulty with.


Who say a punch deservess a shot?

There is no law saying that one must be on his back with some thug doing a "pound and ground" on his face before pulling out the gun.

Wake up, nobody must endure a punch.

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

And that's why I say George Zimmerman is a Pussy with a Gun. By the next day, the swelling in his nose was already down. The back of his head merely sustained scratches, & required only band-aids. For a year & a half, GZ attended, 3X a week, Martial Arts lessons. I've seen girls slap each other around with more injuries. Never saw a bar fight? Or a pub fight? I did, but never one which ended with someone getting shot.

He's a Pussy with a Gun. A crybaby & he gets away with murder. It's a shame to call him a Man.

Did you know GZ has a record? Assaulting a cop in a bar? A restraining order against him from a woman?

PS, maybe he "reasonably" felt his life was in danger because he's a coward who started something he couldn't finish without resorting to shooting.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

I also heard T. Martin has a trouble/criminal past.

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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Yes, he was suspended from school. Being a punk doesn't demand the death penalty.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Patsy: "The family of Trayvon Martin said Monday that their 17-year-old son had been suspended for possessing traces of marijuana before he was shot to death by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman.

Also on Monday, authorities confirmed to the Associated Press that Martin did not have a juvenile offender record.

Martin was suspended by Miami-Dade County schools because traces of marijuana were found in an empty plastic baggie in his book bag, family spokesman Ryan Julison said."

Trayvon Martin Update: School marijuana suspension, no criminal record - Crimesider - CBS News

A kid, Patsy, a dead kid, not a criminal. And he's not on trial. His Killer is.
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Post by Snooz »

I dunno, if I had someone on top of me, slamming my head into the pavement and my broken nose was bleeding down my throat, I might consider pulling out a weapon too.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Years ago, my friend's husband was shot to death outside his home. The blood never gets out of concrete. As far as I know, it's still there. It permeates. There was a suicide at my son's college. Kid jumped out of a 7th story window. Couldn't get the blood out without those super hose things. No blood on the concrete of GZ. None. Rain is not enough.

Re: Trayvon...........On the grass, there was a metal A/C box in the ground. I have heard it supposed (on one of the Cable shows) that this is where GZ sustained those horrible, disfiguring, life-threatening Scratches on the back of his head which required Band-Aids Only.

Judge Alex Ferrar said that in his opinion GZ had the gun drawn all along---that it was impossible to get the gun out from the position described by GZ.

Also, the only way to confirm a broken nose is by X-ray, which GZ refused.

A broken nose does not IMO demand the death penalty. Except by a wuss.
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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

Patsy Warnick;1431511 wrote: Lars

Authorities told Zimmerman not to pursue.

Patsy


SnoozeAgain;1431512 wrote: I don't know how neighborhood watch works. If you're off-duty, do you just ignore something that doesn't look right?

As far as "authorities" telling Z not to follow, the dispatcher, who has no authority at all, said something to the effect of "you don't need to do that".

Edited to add: Anne, if concealed weapons bother you, you should never visit Utah... they hand out permits like candy here.


tude dog;1431529 wrote: Way back when wifey and I bought our first house, there was an attempt at neighborhood watch kind of thing. What I got from it is know your neighbors, keep an eye out.

Far as I know, there is no evidence that George patrolled the neighborhood. Actually he was going to or from a Target(?) store which he did every week at that time.

Fast forward, he is attacked. Defends himself. Assailant dies.

End of story, or it should be.


Except that he put himself in the position of being "attacked"

He went running into the night in pursuit of a "suspect" with little, or no training in how to handle such a situation. He had no business doing that.

He created the incident.

As for the rest, we only have his side of the story. No, I do not believe that being stupid warrants the death penalty, or anything like that - There is a way to cut down the population though, eh?

Firstly, the kid is from Miami. When I lived there, it was not a nice place. If I had seen someone following me, I would become cautious, maybe run around a building, and of they continued to follow, nail the bugger.

Just because someone is beating on you, is not justification to shoot them. Anne is right.

Of course, once I knocked his ass down, I would have probably run off and left him there, because he might be armed.

Again, let an idiot carry a gun, and someone will probably die.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
-Susan Hattie Steinsapir
Patsy Warnick
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Let the looting begin

Post by Patsy Warnick »

Anne

I haven't stated any position - I haven't disagreed with you - I just stated what I have heard as the trial proceeds.

Zimmerman was told not to pursue - he's an idiot - he has no authority to follow me - question me - approach me. Follow me - I pick up the pace & into a run.

I first thought Z. took his authority too far as Mr. Block Watch Patrol.

you can watch some one suspicious - call authorities & be done with the block patrol.

Was Martin running or trying to ditch Z?

I don't know - Z. will probably receive manslaughter & time served.

Another senseless gun related death

Patsy

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